"Deepest" Fighter?

Whats the 'deepest' fighter in your opinion?

lb2,motw,sf3,vf4?

Very difficult question!!! It looks like my list of favorite fighters. My opinion but I haven't played MOTW!!

1. virtua fighter 4
2. SF 3.3
3. Last Blade 2

My vote would go to VF4 and VF4 Evolution as well.
Just look at the available traning options and the long moveslist for each of the fighters.
Plus, all the hidden unlockables guarantee you a good dose of replay value.

VF4/Evo Rocks !!!!

Without a doubt Virtua Fighter 4 - Evolution.

sf3 ts - parrying, cant do it then dont expect to match strats with the big boys.
v4 evo - where to start, this game is a nightmare to pick up... you will be getting owned in the cades for years b4 you meet success.
motw - like ts, the good players use just defend, you aint got much chance if you dont too.
ggxx reload - so many systems and a different/original type of fighter.. hard to know where to start...
ss5 - mastering a full arsenal of strategies is a task. crouching to avoid throwing, meditation building, disarming, etc... very slow pace where recovery time is huge on everything.. takes some getting used to.


lb2? hmm... why?

Well LB 2 and MotW are the only ones that I have really spent any time with out of the list so my vote would have to go to MotW, every time I play I find something new.

it be inclined to go with MOTW or if not made by snk i'd say virtua fighter 4.....or the original soul calibur.....i must have played that for about 4 months without touching another game.
hullcityfcmad

How come nobody said Marvel vs Capcom 2?
I agree that VF4/Evo is probably the deepest (and best) fighting game ever made.
However, people are forgetting the sheer number of team combinations available in MvC2, giving it unlimited playablility. This warrants it to be a least an honorable mention for "Deep Fighters."
-->Even with its "Dial-a-Combo."

greyimp said:

How come nobody said Marvel vs Capcom 2?

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Probably because of it's button-mashing gameplay. It really represents Capcom's lowest moment. Not to mention that it's completely broken; if you want to play competetively you have to choose from the same 4 characters. Which is too bad because the game has a really interesting roster.

I'm the biggest fanboi of SF3:3s in the world

But VF4:Evo is hella deep, I bought it when it was first released and have onlly recently devoted much time to it. It's quite amazing

So VF4:Evo

MOTW
VF4Evo
SF3TS

I want to say SSV, but I still need to play it more before I make my decision.

SouthtownKid said:

Probably because of it's button-mashing gameplay. It really represents Capcom's lowest moment. Not to mention that it's completely broken; if you want to play competetively you have to choose from the same 4 characters. Which is too bad because the game has a really interesting roster.

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Same 4 Characters? I know what you mean, but you obviously didn't read my entire post.
I KNOW it has button mashing elements, but that's not where the "deepness" comes from. The possibility of different team combinations and their effectiveness is what makes it deep. People always picking from the "same 4 characters" is only true in competitive play and for people who like to be really cheap.
If you've ever spent enough time with this game, you could find more useful teams past the "same 4."
-->Current Team: Captain America, Guile, and Spider-Man
Go and pull off a Hyper Tag Combo that starts from Guile Hyper Sonic Boom to Cap's Final Justice into Spider-Man's Hyper Web Throw with only 5% life left and win the match, them come back and talk to me.

MOTW
STF 3rd Strike


I haven't really gotten into Evo or Samsho V for that matter.

Okay I'm going out on a limb here, it seems, but I'm going to say that I don't think that VF4 is all that deep at all. I think there is a huge difference between complicated and deep. VF4 is complicated in that there are massive amounts of moves and most of those are fairly complex to pull off, requiring you to memorise move lists and combos. This seems to give the impression that it is 'deep'. But I'd argue that VF4 simply turns into a test of speed and, mostly, memory. Having to learn off massive move lists does not, in my opinion, make a fighter 'deep'.

Take SF2 for example. I know this is a Neo Geo board but hear me out on the grounds that it was (and is) so popular for so long on so many levels from the total newbies to the most dedicated tourney players. The hardest move in the entire game is the spinning pile driver - a move you can learn to pull off perfectly in about an hour if you try. Moves became instinctive in a couple of days play of SF2. No complicated move lists or pre-determined counter-attack systems. A very simple game on the surface - and yet unarguably deep. Why? Because, when everyone knew the basic moves, it became about how you played. You don't need to think about how to do a move or pull out a parry from your memory - all that became instinctive very early on. Your style, your own combos became important. You were not inhibited by the game itself, only your own abilities.

In VF4, on the other hand, you are battling against the game system itself - how many of those moves can you learn and remember? When one person does X move, can you remember that you have to do pre-determined Y move? And so on...

'More', in my opinion, does not equal 'deeper'.

MotW is a very Capcom-like fighter. I reckon it's the most Capcom-like fighting game that SNK ever made and it adopted that same SF2, easy to learn method. Anyone can do the moves in MotW but it's how you approach and read your opponent that will decide who is better. MotW, to me, is a far deeper (and far better) game then VF4 in spite of having far less moves.

Just my opinion.

Dogg.

Dogg Thang said:

Okay I'm going out on a limb here, it seems, but I'm going to say that I don't think that VF4 is all that deep at all. I think there is a huge difference between complicated and deep. VF4 is complicated in that there are massive amounts of moves and most of those are fairly complex to pull off, requiring you to memorise move lists and combos. This seems to give the impression that it is 'deep'. But I'd argue that VF4 simply turns into a test of speed and, mostly, memory. Having to learn off massive move lists does not, in my opinion, make a fighter 'deep'.

Take SF2 for example. I know this is a Neo Geo board but hear me out on the grounds that it was (and is) so popular for so long on so many levels from the total newbies to the most dedicated tourney players. The hardest move in the entire game is the spinning pile driver - a move you can learn to pull off perfectly in about an hour if you try. Moves became instinctive in a couple of days play of SF2. No complicated move lists or pre-determined counter-attack systems. A very simple game on the surface - and yet unarguably deep. Why? Because, when everyone knew the basic moves, it became about how you played. You don't need to think about how to do a move or pull out a parry from your memory - all that became instinctive very early on. Your style, your own combos became important. You were not inhibited by the game itself, only your own abilities.

In VF4, on the other hand, you are battling against the game system itself - how many of those moves can you learn and remember? When one person does X move, can you remember that you have to do pre-determined Y move? And so on...

'More', in my opinion, does not equal 'deeper'.

MotW is a very Capcom-like fighter. I reckon it's the most Capcom-like fighting game that SNK ever made and it adopted that same SF2, easy to learn method. Anyone can do the moves in MotW but it's how you approach and read your opponent that will decide who is better. MotW, to me, is a far deeper (and far better) game then VF4 in spite of having far less moves.

Just my opinion.

Dogg.

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Well said, man. I agree with you 100%. I'm coming from other gaming types and make use of that approach, and from my experience and preference I can respect your view.

greyimp said:

Same 4 Characters? I know what you mean, but you obviously didn't read my entire post.
I KNOW it has button mashing elements, but that's not where the "deepness" comes from. The possibility of different team combinations and their effectiveness is what makes it deep. People always picking from the "same 4 characters" is only true in competitive play and for people who like to be really cheap.
If you've ever spent enough time with this game, you could find more useful teams past the "same 4."
-->Current Team: Captain America, Guile, and Spider-Man
Go and pull off a Hyper Tag Combo that starts from Guile Hyper Sonic Boom to Cap's Final Justice into Spider-Man's Hyper Web Throw with only 5% life left and win the match, them come back and talk to me.

Click to expand...

This is the problem. "Deep" gameplay often equates to "Competitive" and "Balanced" gameplay. Thus, MvC2 shouldn't even be in this thread.


I really can't wait to get my hands on GG#Reload, I really want to put some time into that one. Bridget =


-AG

Dogg Thang said:

Okay I'm going out on a limb here, it seems, but I'm going to say that I don't think that VF4 is all that deep at all. I think there is a huge difference between complicated and deep. VF4 is complicated in that there are massive amounts of moves and most of those are fairly complex to pull off, requiring you to memorise move lists and combos. This seems to give the impression that it is 'deep'. But I'd argue that VF4 simply turns into a test of speed and, mostly, memory. Having to learn off massive move lists does not, in my opinion, make a fighter 'deep'.

Take SF2 for example. I know this is a Neo Geo board but hear me out on the grounds that it was (and is) so popular for so long on so many levels from the total newbies to the most dedicated tourney players. The hardest move in the entire game is the spinning pile driver - a move you can learn to pull off perfectly in about an hour if you try. Moves became instinctive in a couple of days play of SF2. No complicated move lists or pre-determined counter-attack systems. A very simple game on the surface - and yet unarguably deep. Why? Because, when everyone knew the basic moves, it became about how you played. You don't need to think about how to do a move or pull out a parry from your memory - all that became instinctive very early on. Your style, your own combos became important. You were not inhibited by the game itself, only your own abilities.

In VF4, on the other hand, you are battling against the game system itself - how many of those moves can you learn and remember? When one person does X move, can you remember that you have to do pre-determined Y move? And so on...

'More', in my opinion, does not equal 'deeper'.

MotW is a very Capcom-like fighter. I reckon it's the most Capcom-like fighting game that SNK ever made and it adopted that same SF2, easy to learn method. Anyone can do the moves in MotW but it's how you approach and read your opponent that will decide who is better. MotW, to me, is a far deeper (and far better) game then VF4 in spite of having far less moves.

Just my opinion.

Dogg.

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I respect your opinion and I see how you feel that way. The game is complicated and hard to pick up, and it being complicated doesnt mean its deep. i can see what your saying, but I have very strong feelings toward this game. VF4 changed the way I looked at fighting games.

but........ have you really played VF4 competitively?

I know it seems like theres a lot to memorize, but when you do learn a character, you really do know all the moves. Any good VF player knows his characters moves like the back of his hand. The game is not at all about memorizing your moves, its about using outsmarting your opponent by reading and predicting what they are going to do, just like any other fighting game. It just has a higher learning curve.

Your not fighting against the system, unless your learning how to play. But thats any new fighting game (unless it plays exactly like a game that your already good at.) After spending a good amount of time with the system the strategy becomes like any 2d game. Your trying to outsmart your opponent by 1. doing something they dont expect 2. finding an opening by using high/low game or throwing them 3. tricky combos and set ups. just like any 2d fighting game.

And Ill even argue that its DEEPER than any 2d fighter. I know its a strong statement. But VF4 actually has the characters moving in 3d, and attacking in 3d. It adds an extra layer to the strategy, being able to dodge and get up in any direction. It makes your opponent have to think about more possiblities.

VF4 is complicated, and complicated doesnt equal deep. But in my opinion, VF4 is complicated and deep. A game with a huge amount a depth, the first time you play is like jumping into the deep end of the pool, but you get better with more practice.

Its strange to argue over which games are deeper, cause a game is only really deep if you get into it, and feel passionate about it. If you lightly play it then of course its not going to appear deep at all. MvC2 is an incredibly deep game, cause there are SO many combinations and strategies (even now new strategies are being developed and people are still playing it competitively) but if you just played MvsC2 casually (like i did/do) then it doesnt appear deep at all.

Kof 2002. I too challenge anyone to disagree, its too hot, there's lots of ways to get out of most situations so people find it hard to pin someone down, therefore people think its not great but the thing is you probely aint thinking deep enough to realise.

It has a very deep system, why it don't get recognised i don't know, not just that too the chracters do play very very different in gameplay whilst in other games you end up doing different moves but with the same repition of hand movements, If you can combo correctly with the maximum amount of characters, then trust me, you are a gaming god that knows true skills.

I would have to say for me it's Motw's and VF 4 Evolution.

VF4
SF3/MOTW
GGXX

haven't play LB2 and SS5 enough to see how deep they are.

Adam Gallant said:

This is the problem. "Deep" gameplay often equates to "Competitive" and "Balanced" gameplay. Thus, MvC2 shouldn't even be in this thread.

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Deep equates to competative and balanced? NO. How does it equate those 2 things? And besides going by your logic of Competativeness MvC2 would still be on top because there are so many MvC2 tournaments and so many players.

It kills me how so many of the so called "hardcore" fans like to throw out mvc2's credability because they have the lack of ability to play it and so many casual fighting game fans like it.

My vote goes to MvC2. Sure I can't play it to save my life but i know where that game stands.

fight fever

Street Fighter 1

Street Fighter 1

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But only the version that had those big rubber buttons that you actually punched

hehe.