Software Pirates PWN3D

RAINBOW PONY · Feb 12, 2004

http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6089247.html

According to court documents and his own confession, Breen and other Razor1911 members acquired, cracked, and sold advance copies of Quake, Command & Conquer Red Alert, Terminal Velocity, Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, and many other games. They acquired advance copies of said titles by posing as reviewers for fictitious game magazines and having them shipped to a derelict storefront address in Oakland.

Breen and his associates would sell their games via pirated-software sites. Their massive transactions garnered the attention of the U.S. Customs Service, which arrested Breen and 40 other individuals after an elaborate undercover operation known as "Operation Buccaneer."

Razor1911 members also posed as customers of Cisco Systems in order to falsely place massive game orders. This tactic came back to haunt Breen today, when Judge Armstrong ordered him to pay $690,236.91 in restitution to Cisco.

Breen begins his sentence on March 26. Barring parole, he will be released in 2009, when he will have to serve a further three years probation. He will also have to finish reimbursing Cisco, which will likely take much longer.

BarfHappy · Feb 12, 2004

Hahahahahahahahaha ^^
Those Razor members were so stupid, fake magazine to get games before release... plain stupid. I mean wanting to get the game before the others to get fame of a release, they should better get a real work and got famous beeing brillant in it.

excess of winice and w32dasm can be dangerous dudes...

xRealNinjuzx · Feb 12, 2004

HA FUCKING HA HA.

They all got what they deserved.

-Kris

kobylka68 · Feb 12, 2004

This is awesome. Hopefully other will take note. An example of this magnitude needed to be made.

BlackSpy · Feb 12, 2004

w00t!

teh busted!

GunstarHeroblack · Feb 12, 2004

piracy......hmmmm....- im gald that it went that way in the end- and dudes they got what they deserved,

................but on the other hand with a quick reality check- and like most other crimes in general, one person caught- leads to the spawning of 3-5 new cases opening up shop......... :shame:

SPINMASTER X · Feb 12, 2004

Its a damn shame when software pirates get hit harder than people who kill other people and child molesters and rapists.

GunstarHeroblack · Feb 12, 2004

SPINMASTER X said:
Its a damn shame when software pirates get hit harder than people who kill other people and child molesters and rapists.

Word.........Absolute Fuckery- you want slap on the wrist ????

especially up here in Canada- recently A 19 year old Kid kills an 11 year old girl, serving 19 months in Jail, upon his release weeks later, hes then caught again for Auto theft- :oh_no:

..........justice/Juvenile system so soft its a an embarrasment. :spock:

SML · Feb 12, 2004

BarfHappy said:
Hahahahahahahahaha ^^
Those Razor members were so stupid, fake magazine to get games before release... plain stupid. I mean wanting to get the game before the others to get fame of a release, they should better get a real work and got famous beeing brillant in it.

excess of winice and w32dasm can be dangerous dudes...

It was mostly the selling of said games that got them in trouble.

BarfHappy · Feb 12, 2004

well selling illegal stuff is suicide, better give it away... in france almost 100percents of individuals arrested and punished for piracy/downloading/etc are so because they sold afterwards.

i don t think the magazine trick has worked as long as they imply (since terminal velocity??? loool if no editor tried to verify...)

EMAGDNIM · Feb 12, 2004

It's great that they got booked for this... :glee:

FeelGood · Feb 12, 2004

just out of curiousity - why is Cisco getting anythign for this? Why not the game publishers?

bokmeow · Feb 12, 2004

SPINMASTER X said:
Its a damn shame when software pirates get hit harder than people who kill other people and child molesters and rapists.

Here I have to disagree. Tons of software pirates get off scott free because it's not worth the money in lawyer fees to pursue. The Romz is a large example of this. All this high profile lawsuit serves to do is a visible deterrant to warn off others, but even then this collection of evidence for the conviction probably did not happen overnight, it was probably the effort of years of work if you consider how long ago Quake 3 and those other games were released.

SonGohan · Feb 12, 2004

bokmeow said:
Here I have to disagree. Tons of software pirates get off scott free because it's not worth the money in lawyer fees to pursue. The Romz is a large example of this. All this high profile lawsuit serves to do is a visible deterrant to warn off others, but even then this collection of evidence for the conviction probably did not happen overnight, it was probably the effort of years of work if you consider how long ago Quake 3 and those other games were released.

What's more important though.. some software pirates, or rape/murder? I think that's the only point that's trying to be made. Nobody is debating the fact that pirating software is a bad thing, but these dudes got a longer sentence than a lot of convicted sex offenders. That just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

bokmeow · Feb 12, 2004

SonGohan said:
What's more important though.. some software pirates, or rape/murder? I think that's the only point that's trying to be made. Nobody is debating the fact that pirating software is a bad thing, but these dudes got a longer sentence than a lot of convicted sex offenders. That just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

And that's the classic perspective on crime, violence against individuals is greater than embezzlement.

Think about it this way. Sex offender rapes one person.

Software pirate sells pirate software, lost sales for company, company lays off 150 jobs, in effect rapes 150 persons of their livelihood.

Which one is the more damaging one?

SML · Feb 12, 2004

bokmeow said:
And that's the classic perspective on crime, violence against individuals is greater than embezzlement.

Think about it this way. Sex offender rapes one person.

Software pirate sells pirate software, lost sales for company, company lays off 150 jobs, in effect rapes 150 persons of their livelihood.

Which one is the more damaging one?

Well, I won't venture to say which is worse, but I agree we should bear in mind that they stole half a million in revenue from these companies due to the bootleg games they were selling.

SonGohan · Feb 12, 2004

bokmeow said:
And that's the classic perspective on crime, violence against individuals is greater than embezzlement.

Think about it this way. Sex offender rapes one person.

Software pirate sells pirate software, lost sales for company, company lays off 150 jobs, in effect rapes 150 persons of their livelihood.

Which one is the more damaging one?

That's a possible effect. It may or may not happen. Singling out one person(s) and trying to "make an example" out of them hoping that the effects trickle down to detour other people from doing the same doesn't help (much). It would be different if they were hardcore on everybody who did this, but they aren't, so people aren't really scared. Just look at the RIAA, they shook people up a little bit, but now people have went back to not caring about downloading mp3s. They just try to set examples.

Let's put it this way, would you rather have your dad lose his job, or your mother raped? Personally, I know my father finding another job would be a lot easier than my mother getting over somebody raping her.

I digress. Sex offenders shouldn't be getting lesser sentences than software pirates. I'm not saying neither shouldn't be punished, priates certainly need to be punished by the maximum penalties set by law, but violence and sex abusers are definitely by and far the worst of the two. (of course this is all subjective)

AnechoicJinx · Feb 12, 2004

Don't be ridiculous, I guarantee 150 people didn't get laid off because some dumbasses sold some bootleg games...

bokmeow · Feb 12, 2004

Right now is not the best climate to be losing jobs. Unemployment of individual states are number in the 11% sometimes. Plus with the conservative attitude toward welfare in the White House, do you really want to be losing jobs?

I am definitely not saying one crime is more severe than the other, but they need to be punished equally, enforced equally and people need to take note, if the classical institution of crime and punishment is to serve as effective deterrant.

You might also want to take note that posession of a small amount of crystal crack is punished more severely than posession of 10 times the powder cocaine in weight, carries stiffer penalty and stiffer prison sentence. If you argue on the position of damage inflicted, intent to distribute 10 times the weight in powder cocaine can no way be lighter in damage, correct?

SonGohan said:
That's a possible effect. It may or may not happen. Singling out one person(s) and trying to "make an example" out of them hoping that the effects trickle down to detour other people from doing the same doesn't help (much). It would be different if they were hardcore on everybody who did this, but they aren't, so people aren't really scared. Just look at the RIAA, they shook people up a little bit, but now people have went back to not caring about downloading mp3s. They just try to set examples.

Let's put it this way, would you rather have your dad lose his job, or your mother raped? Personally, I know my father finding another job would be a lot easier than my mother getting over somebody raping her.

I digress. Sex offenders shouldn't be getting lesser sentences than software pirates. I'm not saying neither shouldn't be punished, priates certainly need to be punished by the maximum penalties set by law, but violence and sex abusers are definitely by and far the worst of the two. (of course this is all subjective)

SonGohan · Feb 12, 2004

bokmeow said:
Right now is not the best climate to be losing jobs. Unemployment of individual states are number in the 11% sometimes. Plus with the conservative attitude toward welfare in the White House, do you really want to be losing jobs?

I am definitely not saying one crime is more severe than the other, but they need to be punished equally, enforced equally and people need to take note, if the classical institution of crime and punishment is to serve as effective deterrant.

You might also want to take note that posession of a small amount of crystal crack is punished more severely than posession of 10 times the powder cocaine in weight, carries stiffer penalty and stiffer prison sentence. If you argue on the position of damage inflicted, intent to distribute 10 times the weight in powder cocaine can no way be lighter in damage, correct?

It's never the best "climate" to lose jobs, nor be a sex offender. I'm not saying losing jobs is an option, I'm not condoning either of the two acts, however if it came down to it, and somebody said "your job, or your woman after hours of me having brutally having my way with her.." I'd lose my job in a heartbeat. Sorry, that's just the kind of guy I am.

Software pirates should never be punished more than a rapist, which is the only point I've been making throughout this whole thread. Regardless if it's to set an example, which is bullshit in it's own right. You don't punish people to set examples, you punish them because they broke the law, which is what should be done to everybody who does the same.

bokmeow · Feb 12, 2004

SonGohan said:
It's never the best "climate" to lose jobs, nor be a sex offender. I'm not saying losing jobs is an option, I'm not condoning either of the two acts, however if it came down to it, and somebody said "your job, or your woman after hours of me having brutally having my way with her.." I'd lose my job in a heartbeat. Sorry, that's just the kind of guy I am.

Software pirates should never be punished more than a rapist, which is the only point I've been making throughout this whole thread. Regardless if it's to set an example, which is bullshit in it's own right. You don't punish people to set examples, you punish them because they broke the law, which is what should be done to everybody who does the same.

I dissent. Punishment used to be the 'eye for an eye' to match the severity of the offense, but it evolved now to deter people to break the law, because that's how our secular consciousness has been shaped now. If you didn't know certain practices were breaking the law, why would you think otherwise if no one punished it? For instance, in New York state, pinball machines are illegal because it was considered gambling, but no one ever enforced it, and it is still in the law book.

If software piracy is not severe enough an example of white collar crime that embezzles people's money, consider the corporate embezzlement that results in stock prices that crash to worthlessness or the bank employee that extracts an almost invisible 3 cents for each transaction made to his own account and accumulates millions in person gains. This cost everyone money and have real impacts on the economy. All the examples I've given are true. This is my last word on the issue because the legal realm is only playing catch-up to these white collar crimes in the recent decades.

krautcroissant · Feb 12, 2004

bokmeow said:
And that's the classic perspective on crime, violence against individuals is greater than embezzlement.

Think about it this way. Sex offender rapes one person.

Software pirate sells pirate software, lost sales for company, company lays off 150 jobs, in effect rapes 150 persons of their livelihood.

Which one is the more damaging one?

Sorry for interrupting as this whole thread doesn't concern me, but I just came accross this and couldn't help but think: WHAT teh fuck are you on!!! You cannea be serious man...I hope you'll be lucky to never really get in touch with the very serious issue that is rape.... fucks sake man... you can't really compare piracy to this.... man I am fumin :blow_top:

galfordo · Feb 12, 2004

SPINMASTER X said:
Its a damn shame when software pirates get hit harder than people who kill other people and child molesters and rapists.

Very true. I think software piracy is awful - but it's nowhere near as damaging as violent crimes. People should do time and pay hefty fines for piracy, but we should reserve the bulk of the prison space for violent offenders.

galfordo · Feb 12, 2004

bokmeow said:
And that's the classic perspective on crime, violence against individuals is greater than embezzlement.

Think about it this way. Sex offender rapes one person.

Software pirate sells pirate software, lost sales for company, company lays off 150 jobs, in effect rapes 150 persons of their livelihood.

Which one is the more damaging one?

The rape is more damaging because it can never be undone. You lose your job you, then you get another one. That's part of life with or without software pirates.

If you get raped or murdered, the damage to the individual and his/her family is permanent. Aside from those direct impacts, the outreaching social effects are often devastating.

Nobody wants to live in an area where violent crimes are frequent. Entire communities have been turned into slums due to violent crimes. Nobody who has a choice wants to be any part of a violent area.

jethrek · Feb 12, 2004

AnechoicJinx said:
Don't be ridiculous, I guarantee 150 people didn't get laid off because some dumbasses sold some bootleg games...

Piracy is a fairly minor crime. Speeding is a more minor crime. The difference is that people who speed all day generally get tickets, and even lose thier right to drive. Pirates don't even get a slap on the wrist at this stage of the game.

I suggest that rather than throwing pirates in jail, they are issued tickets every time they pirate something. Let's start at, say, $100 and move up fromt here.

If such a syustem could be implemented, I bet piracy levels would plummet.

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