Your thoughts on Robotech- 18 years later

neobuyer

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Well, recently the production company my girl works for moved into a new office, and in the process got rid of all the stray videos, promos, crap, etc. from their office. One thing some of the promo people had that they wanted to throw or give away was a big box of Robotech stuff, which included: (All of this stuff was new/unopened) 2 copies of Robotech Battlecry for the Gamecube, the last box set in the Robotech Masters 'Legacy' series, 10 or so recent comic books (the new series), A cool 'New Generation' Valkyrie posable figure, some 'Kubric' type figures, The complete Robotech Soundtrack and a bunch of shirts and crap (ugly)

Anyways, I started watching the Robotech Masters DVDs and found myself realy getting into them (This was the one part of the series I didn't watch back in the 80's). So I start DLing stuff off Kazaa too. I'm now thinking about trying to slowly buy up more of the 'legacy' box sets- since they have all sorts of extras.

Just wondering what everyone's opinion of Robotech is after all these years. I think everyone of my generation, who was a kid in the 80's was obsessed with this show when it was originally on.

I even heard that Harmony Gold plans a new Robotech series tentatively to be released fall 2004- which I have a huge feeling is going to suck. But hey, I'm a pessimistic bastard.
 

slerch666

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What do I think of Robotech now, after having watched through all of it when ADV originally released it all on DVD? I think the Macross Saga portion, the portion that was the beginning of the series was the best part. I didn't enjoy the Masters/New Generation arcs... AT ALL. They felt canned and the connection that they all held, Rick Hunter, was forced and cheesy. I realize they wanted to get the series on TV and all that. I also realize there are scenes in the originals that they didn't want to include for violence/nudity considerations (Minmei taking a shower, for instance). I just cannot enjoy the NG/Masters parts. The stories, for me at least, are lacking. I have the same problem with Robotech as I have with Star Blazers. They try to minimize certain things, like violence, and recylce animation from previous episodes or further into the season, to keep you from seeing the Gamilons getting killed or whatever. Again, I realize why they did it, but I can't get past how... FUCKING CHEESY what they did was. I mean, on Star Blazers there is a scene where Wildstar is jumping for a gun to shoot a Gamilon. Well, while he is "in the air" he has a holster for a gun with... a GUN IN IT! Then he shoots the Gamilon, but, no, wait, he ACTUALLY shot the ice behind the Gamilon and covered him in ice, he didn't shoot him. Watching it, you also realize he shot and killed the Gamilon, especially considering the expression on Wildstar's and Nova's faces. Robotech was full of the same continuity problems that I can't get past.

Robotech was good back in the day, but now that I'm almost 25 yrs old, about 20 yrs later, it's just not as good as I remember it. I now own Macross and have NO problems with it. So it's just chumped up 80s Anime series that I don't like.

Are you sure the "new" series they are talking about isn't the Remastered Robotech?
 

Mike Shagohod

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slerch666 said:

Robotech was good back in the day, but now that I'm almost 25 yrs old, about 20 yrs later, it's just not as good as I remember it. I now own Macross and have NO problems with it. So it's just chumped up 80s Anime series that I don't like.

Are you sure the "new" series they are talking about isn't the Remastered Robotech?

I'd say that what SLERCH said speaks for me as well. And I always liked the more condenced and darker story that was the 1984 theatrical motion picture of SDF Macross: "Do You Remember Love?" over the TV-Series anyhow. *To me ROBOTECH is just a bastardized product that was good for what it was worth at a time when Americans didn't know better, but to not own the "Original" in lieu of utter crap, well that's even harder to stomach, but then again that's my opinion.

Mercenary X99
 

jaydubnb

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I used to be a raving Robotech fanatic back in the mid 80s so when the ADV DVDs hit the market, I ate em up. Unfortunately I learned the sad truth: the Macross Saga is the only portion that held up in the past 20 years. RT Masters simply sucks and has a horrible lead character. The New Generation is an episodic mess. I then quickly sold everything but the Macross Saga and invested in the remastered, subbed Animeigo DVD box set. Its amazing how voice actors can change the feel of a show. The biggest change was in Min May's character. In Robotech he came off as the single most annoying human in the galaxy, while in Macross she was an almost sympathetic character...not to mention having a much better singing voice :) I did miss a couple of RT songs though: The stirring opening theme and "We Will Win."

Probablly the best thing to have happened to RT are the Toynami transformables. I can't wait to get the Alphas!

And Slerch, there is a new series coming. Probablly starring Jack Archer, star of the RT PS2 game.
 
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Crovax

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Robotech will always have a special place in my heart for being my earliest memory of Japanese animation, and the series that made me a lifelong fan of anime.

However, after seeing the original Japanese Macross, Mospeada, and about half of Southern Cross, sentimental value is the only thing the TV show has going for it nowadays. I only plan to hang on to a handful of Robotech DVDs just for the nostalgia. The english Voice Actors and the music from the Macross Saga will always remind me of my childhood, but when it comes to the actual story, I'll stick to the Japanese originals.

the novelizations are a different story though. I still like them because they were able to better smooth over the transitions between series and add a bit more. In fact, I actually sort of like the universe they established there better than where Macross ended up leading to, just because the musical aspect didn't become so overwhelming *cough*macross7*cough*
 

PUNJABEE

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While I still love Robotech, all three Generations, I agree that the Novels are awesome. I have all of them, but havent read past the 'end' which was book 18. I loved the ending in that, and the author(s) of the novels were actually pretty good at story telling. ive read through the entire series (up to 18) about 4 times, and got the last 3 in the last couple of years, but have been so busy with other books/manga that I havent had time go into them.

Good stuff. I will definitely be getting Rook's Masterpiece Alpha, and Scott's if I can get the wife to let me. The only Masterpiece Valkyrie i have is Skull One at the moment.
 

slerch666

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I'll hold any decision on a new Robotech, assuming it actually does get released (guess I could always check out Robotech.com!).

The biggest problem with Robotech was how they cut it up. The reason the Macross portion was the best? Because it was the least molded of the 3. It was the "original" that all the others were to be fed from and not much of the story changed. I think the Macross portion was the only portion that retained the original's episode count (though they did cut things out and move a few things around).
 

aria

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I, like most of the others responding, loved the Macross portion in all its translated-n-hacked-into-gaijin-goodness.

I also really liked that "pilot" episode (on the bonus DVD in the Legacy Series Volume 3) which was to bring in a US-only "Robotech II: The Sentinels" television series (they, for some reason, decided not to go through with the 65-episode run back in '86). Sure it wouldn't have been as nice as the original stuff, but at least it continued with the interesting characters like Rick & Lisa Hunter et al.

here's a pic of the pilot I found on the web:

robotech3_2.jpg


Was I the only one who thought that had potential?

Man, I remember watched that a few years ago and getting really angry at the TV executives who must've made that decision.
 

PUNJABEE

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Yeah I used to have that on VHS, i think I still might, actually.

The Sentinals books were really awesome too!
 

jaydubnb

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In theory the Sentinels had potential --filling in gaps and continuing the story -- but the character designs were absolutely horrid. Was it on the Legacy DVD where I think Macek said they had to alter the designs so not to piss off the hardcore Macross fans in Japan with an American sequel to thier beloved series?

And speaking of Macross, what are the chance of a legit Macross 7 or Macross Zero release stateside?
 

StealthLurker

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A bit off topic, but I saw some members mention the toynami veritechs. If you're into macross mechs, I'd highly recommend the 1/48 or 1/60 scale valkyries by YAMATO. Most accurate and intricate sculpt available for a toy.
 

tsukaesugi

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jaydubnb said:
In theory the Sentinels had potential --filling in gaps and continuing the story -- but the character designs were absolutely horrid. Was it on the Legacy DVD where I think Macek said they had to alter the designs so not to piss off the hardcore Macross fans in Japan with an American sequel to thier beloved series?

And speaking of Macross, what are the chance of a legit Macross 7 or Macross Zero release stateside?

Yeah, and the animation was pretty weak too. I came across a copy of 'The Sentinels' years ago in a video store (which was still years after the original Robotech), and I was so happy to have come across this 'lost gem'... I took it home, watched it, and thought...

Blech. I can't believe I waited years to see this.
 

Crovax

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I actually have the pilot to Robotech II on VHS. I think it had a lot of potential, but on the other hand, for just a pilot, they spent WAAAY too much time with Rick & Lisa's wedding. I think that killed it right off, even in spite of how interesting the scenes on the Masters' homeworld were. My other gripe is that they totally destroyed Mirya's character because they needed somebody to replace Claudia's interaction with Lisa.

Yeah, lots of potential, but at the same time, I could see the potential for some MAJOR shortcomings.
 

NeoTheranthrope

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The dubbing for the show itself was so bad due to Harmony Gold's less-than-a-shoestring budget. I remember reading about how when they were casting the characters the used the secratary, the accountant, a couple or recording techs, and even people off the street for voices. They also resued voices whenever they could.

Also,
legend has it, that the singer they used for all of Minmay's songs came in the day of the recording drunk. Since Harmony Gold couldn't afford any more studio time they used the tracks she recorded anyway, and thus, all Minmay's songs sound like complete shit (unlike the singer for Lancer: a young Stan Bush (he did "you've got the touch" for the Transformers the Movie soundtrack plus a ton of other stuff). His version of "we will win" is far, far, superior) .

For the whole Robotech saga there are two shining gems sitting atop the crap of bad dubbing and lackluster games: the novels and the dice and paper RPG by palladium(Lancer's riggers and rocker's notwithstanding)
 

neobuyer

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A 'Brief History of Robotech' - Cut N' Pasted from: http://users.megapathdsl.net/~duke/faq/faq1.htm

The Original Shows:

In late 1982, Tatsunoko Productions' SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS premiered on Japanese airwaves. Originally intended to be a comedy, it went on to become one of the most popular shows ever in the giant robot (a.k.a. mecha) genre, right next to MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM. After MACROSS ended in 1983, it was followed in the same time-slot by Tokyo Movie Shinsha's SUPER DIMENSION CENTURY ORGUSS. ORGUSS shared some creative staff with MACROSS (thus the similarities in character designs and mecha), and there were a couple throw-away in-jokes in the first few episodes, but otherwise there was no relation between the shows. Meanwhile, an obscure mecha show called GENESIS CLIMBER MOSPEADA came and went. According to Robotech Art I, Mospeada was placed with a disastrous time-slot, but developed a very popular fanfollowing, ensuring its survival in an OVA, Genesis Climber Mospeada: Love Live Alive.

When ORGUSS finished its run in 1984, it was replaced by SUPER DIMENSION CAVALRY SOUTHERN CROSS. Again, there was no relation between the shows other than the words "Super Dimension".

Two other important events happened in 1984. The first one was the theatrical premiere of MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE? in July. This movie was a condensed re-telling of the original MACROSS plot, with completely new animation. The second event was the release of MEGAZONE 23, one of the first OVA (Original Video Animation, i.e. made-for-video) features ever made. It had the same character designer as MACROSS and ORGUSS, Haruhiko Mikimoto, who had become a fan-favorite due to his previous work in these shows. MEGAZONE 23 PART II was released in 1986.

Hasbro and Revell go to Japan:

American toy company Hasbro was looking in Japan for a transforming jet model for their "Transformers" toy line, which uses the premise of vehicles which transform into giant robots.

Model kit company Revell was also looking in Japan for models for their "Robotech Defenders" line of robotic model kits. They eventually used models from MACROSS, DOUGRAM (more on this later), and ORGUSS.

Toy giant Bandai got the license to manufacture toys based on MACROSS. Bandai was approached separately by Hasbro and Revell for the rights to sell the "Valkyrie Fighter" from MACROSS (a jet which transformed into a humanoid robot). Bandai sold the rights to the fighter to BOTH companies separately. Hasbro's toy eventually became known as "Jetfire", where the Revell models, called Vexar, Axoid, and Orbot, represented, with altered paint schemes, 1/72 scale Macross VF-1S, -1J, and -1D Valkyrie models respectively.

Enter Harmony Gold:

Sometime around mid- to late 1984, the rights to the MACROSS series were acquired by an American company, Harmony Gold. Originally, MACROSS was slated to be translated rather faithfully, and a TV-movie compilation of the first three episodes had been broadcast. However, the "golden number" for television syndication is 65 episodes (13 weeks of daily weekday episodes), and MACROSS only had 36 episodes.

Carl Macek, a producer for Harmony Gold, came up with an idea which to this day he insists was brilliant, although many purists might disagree. Macek bought the American broadcast rights to SOUTHERN CROSS and MOSPEADA, and rewrote the plots of the three series to get a more-or-less coherent plotline. The "chapters" in this generation-spanning story were now known as "The Macross Saga" (MACROSS), "The Robotech Masters" (SOUTHERN CROSS), and "The New Generation" (MOSPEADA).

With the addition of a "bridging" episode between "Macross Saga" and "Masters" (created entirely from re-used footage), the episode count was brought up to 85 episodes. All they needed now was a title.

Three Way Fight:

Revell was looking for ways to advertise their line of "Robotech Defenders" in other media. There was a two-issue limited comic series published by DC Comics, whose plotline no relation to any of the original Japanese shows, or to Harmony Gold's plot.

When Revell learned about Harmony Gold's plan to bring Macross to the US, they forced Harmony Gold to rename the series to "Robotech." They also wanted to stop Hasbro from manufacturing the "Jetfire" model. Hasbro won that legal battle.

And so, ROBOTECH premiered in October 1985 on American airwaves. The rest is animation history.

ROBOTECH: The Spinoffs

In early 1986, Harmony Gold was riding the crest of Robotech's popularity, and had started production on ROBOTECH II: THE SENTINELS and ROBOTECH: THE MOVIE.

SENTINELS was to be a brand-new series of 65 episodes, written in the United States and animated in Japan, for North American broadcast. Matchbox, who had the license for ROBOTECH merchandise and was one of the major sponsors for SENTINELS, backed out of the project at the last minute. It has been theorized that low profits on the ROBOTECH toy line were the reason for this.

ROBOTECH: THE MOVIE was a re-edited MEGAZONE 23, combined with footage from SOUTHERN CROSS, plus a 12-minute happy ending, comprised of new animation commissioned from Japan. The movie was a disaster: after a few test screenings in Dallas, Texas and a showing at the Los Angeles Animation Celebration, the film's distributor (Cannon Films) decided to cut their losses, and abandoned the project.

Back in Japan

In 1986, both MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE and MEGAZONE 23 PART II were translated into English, to teach the language to Japanese students. Both of these were released on video in Japan. An "extra gift" was added to the video version of MZ 23 II -- the 12 minutes of additional footage created for ROBOTECH: THE MOVIE.

Also in 1986, the MACROSS FLASHBACK 2012 OVA was released in Japan. This was made of 8 minutes of new animation showing what became of our heroes after the war, and 22 minutes of scenes from the MACROSS series and movie, set to Lynn Minmei songs.

FASA and BattleTech

In 1984, before the Harmony Gold deal with Revell, FASA Corporation created a pencil-and-paper game inspired by the Japanese mecha genre. This game, at the time called BATTLEDROIDS, evolved into what is currently known asBATTLETECH.

To give the game's 12 basic units the right "anime" look, FASA used mecha designs from MACROSS, DOUGRAM (another anime show), and CRUSHER JOE (an anime space opera movie). However, FASA did this without permission from the Japanese companies. These eventually learned about this, and threatened to sue FASA. An out-of-court settlement was reached on which FASA could keep the existing designs. Thus, some of the mecha in BATTLETECH are based upon MACROSS mecha. In recent years, new FASA publications have made the mecha taken from anime look increasingly less like their Japanese originals, presumably because of the whole fuss.

Other Merchandising

Comico used to sell comics adaptations of the ROBOTECH TV series. Eternity Comics took over the license from Comico, and for several years published comics which took the ROBOTECH universe into new directions. In summer '94 with the issue #12 of _Return to Macross_, Bk 3 issue #8 of _The Sentinels_ Eternity ended it's affiliation with the Robotech line. The line will be picked up in autumn '94 by Academy Comics.

"Jack McKinney" wrote prose novelizations of the ROBOTECH series, and an original Robotech novel called THE END OF THE CIRCLE and THE ZENTRAEDI REBELLION, inspired by _The Malcontent Uprisings_ from Eternity Comics.

Palladium Books sells an official role-playing game based on the Robotech universe. For a while, they also used to sell videotapes of the second and third chapters of ROBOTECH, along with the 76 or so minutes of animation ever done for ROBOTECH II: THE SENTINELS.

Family Home Entertainment (FHE) used to sell a "condensed" version of the "Macross Saga" portion of ROBOTECH. They also sold a video version of the English dub of the MACROSS movie, from which they removed 18 minutes and re- titled as "Clash of the Bionoids".

US Renditions used to sell a CD of the ROBOTECH soundtrack, now out of print.

The American fan group Seishun Shitemasu created ROBOTECH III: NOT NECESSARILY THE SENTINELS, a video parody/homage mixing footage from ROBOTECH: THE NEW GENERATION and GUNBUSTER (a recent mecha OVA series which also has designs by Mikimoto), along with voice acting provided by the group itself. The scary part is, their story fits flawlessly with the existing ROBOTECH universe!

The Present

In 1992-93, MACROSS II is released nigh-simultaneously in the US and Japan. This six-part OVA series continues the MACROSS story 80 years later, and has Mikimoto back as character designer. Because it's based on the Japanese MACROSS, it obviously has no relation to the ROBOTECH story, or to ROBOTECH II.

While Harmony Gold is still the sole rights holder of ROBOTECH rights to all the ROBOTECH material are licensed to producer Carl Macek, now head of Streamline Pictures, a company formed to bring English-dubbed anime to the U.S. Streamline also sells the ROBOTECH II: THE SENTINELS videotape, as well as the 'Perfect Collection' which pairs two ROBOTECH episodes, and their subtitled Japanese originals on each tape. FHE is still selling the original ROBOTECH episodes (now unedited) in a more conventional format. No firm plans have been made to release either ROBOTECH: THE MOVIE or MEGAZONE 23 in any form, though it is reported that Streamline has acquired MEGAZONE 23 in the last year.

The status of the rights to CLASH OF THE BIONOIDS and/or MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE is unclear at this point.
 

jeffnevins

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Thanks for the info. Well done.

I watched the show on TV as a kid. I bought all the videos in high school. The characters were what pulled me in.

The Invid (Mospeda) really hit home, as I've always been a fan of "on-the-road" stories. The odds are almost impossible for the heroes. Excellent design on the Invid.

I have all the books (After Invid, End of Circle, etc.) and really
enjoyed them. The Sentinels video was poorly directed.

Didn't care for the Battlecry game too much.

Wonder what the future holds?
 

PUNJABEE

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well theres another Robotech game coming soon, based on the Third Generation (invid war), its called Invasion.. Im not sure why they just skipped over the Masters portion, but oh well. Masters was my least favorite anyway.
 

PUNJABEE

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NeoTheranthrope said:
...the dice and paper RPG by palladium...


DUUUDE.. Oh my god that game was awesome. Remember RIFTS? When that was released, you could mix and match any Palladium Universe, so you could actually have Valkyries fighting alongside Juicers!!

That was so awesome. I remember not sleeping entire weekends because of a good campaign.
 

NeoTheranthrope

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neobuyer said:
A 'Brief History of Robotech' - Cut N' Pasted from: http://users.megapathdsl.net/~duke/faq/faq1.htm

The Original Shows:

In late 1982, Tatsunoko Productions' SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS premiered on Japanese airwaves. Originally intended to be a comedy
*snip*

What crack are they smoking? Macross was supposed to be a gritty, tragic, war drama. One of the original working names for it was "Space Macbeth" named after the Shakesperian play, which was needless to say, not a comidy.


Carl Macek, a producer for Harmony Gold, came up with an idea which to this day he insists was brilliant,
*snip*

And he is unamious in that.

In 1986, both MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE and MEGAZONE 23 PART II were translated into English, to teach the language to Japanese students. Both of these were released on video in Japan. An "extra gift" was added to the video version of MZ 23 II -- the 12 minutes of additional footage created for ROBOTECH: THE MOVIE.
*snip*

more on this below

US Renditions used to sell a CD of the ROBOTECH soundtrack, now out of print.
*snip*

not anymore, ADV is selling a version now

The American fan group Seishun Shitemasu created ROBOTECH III: NOT NECESSARILY THE SENTINELS, a video parody/homage mixing footage from ROBOTECH: THE NEW GENERATION and GUNBUSTER (a recent mecha OVA series which also has designs by Mikimoto), along with voice acting provided by the group itself. The scary part is, their story fits flawlessly with the existing ROBOTECH universe!
*snip*

weird but true, annie (mint) from the new generation is the main character who reminices about her previous adventures and her surragate-father/molester Lunk.

Also, recent?! Recent, as of 1993!

The Present

In 1992-93, MACROSS II is released nigh-simultaneously in the US and Japan. This six-part OVA series continues the MACROSS story 80 years later, and has Mikimoto back as character designer. Because it's based on the Japanese MACROSS, it obviously has no relation to the ROBOTECH story, or to ROBOTECH II.
*snip*

Which was complete crap, that even the hardcore japanese Macross fans ignore

While Harmony Gold is still the sole rights holder of ROBOTECH rights to all the ROBOTECH material are licensed to producer Carl Macek, now head of Streamline Pictures,
*snip*

Streamline Pictures went out of busness, bought by Orion pictures, which in turn went out of busness. The rights are currently held by ADV, here's hoping that they'll go under too, the bastards.

No firm plans have been made to release either ROBOTECH: THE MOVIE or MEGAZONE 23 in any form, though it is reported that Streamline has acquired MEGAZONE 23 in the last year.

The status of the rights to CLASH OF THE BIONOIDS and/or MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE is unclear at this point.
*snip*

Except that Macross: do you remember love was released by an nearly unknown distributer after Orion went under in 96' or so.

How do I know? I happen to own a copy. I'll tell you this: the dubbing for it is even worse than Robotech. It's so bad, it's good. It was done in Astraila as a english language training project so everyone s p e a k s r e a l l y s l o w l y with wacked out aussie accents, it's great!
 
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Sundance

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StealthLurker said:
A bit off topic, but I saw some members mention the toynami veritechs. If you're into macross mechs, I'd highly recommend the 1/48 or 1/60 scale valkyries by YAMATO. Most accurate and intricate sculpt available for a toy.

Not only are the Veritechs cool but theres also Add-on kits available that can vary your TYPE of Veritech. I saw those at www.ncsx.com Def a neat idea if your into collecting models or relics from your childhood, retooled/retro-ed for your buyin pleasure.
 

aria

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Wow, great (though a bit dated) source neobuyer.

I always wondered if FASA got in trouble over the original Battletech mechs.
 

endgamer

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If anyone wants to buy any of the 3 disc box sets, there are 7 total, let me know I am selling them at $26.00 each shipped vis USPS priority mail. They are in excellent condition if not near mint. Contact me at ecstacydragon@aol.com if interested.
 

StealthLurker

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PUNJABEE said:
well theres another Robotech game coming soon, based on the Third Generation (invid war), its called Invasion.. Im not sure why they just skipped over the Masters portion, but oh well. Masters was my least favorite anyway.

Forget battlecry and while you're waiting for the Mospeada game, on PS2 there is a really good Macross game developed by SEGA. Probably the best Macross game imho to date. Much better than the Japanese PC game Macross VO.

modded_155_collage.GIF
 

Crovax

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NeoTheranthrope said:

Also,
legend has it, that the singer they used for all of Minmay's songs came in the day of the recording drunk. Since Harmony Gold couldn't afford any more studio time they used the tracks she recorded anyway, and thus, all Minmay's songs sound like complete shit (unlike the singer for Lancer: a young Stan Bush (he did "you've got the touch" for the Transformers the Movie soundtrack plus a ton of other stuff). His version of "we will win" is far, far, superior) .

man, you got my hopes up. :mad: I love "we will win," but hate the fact that minmei sounds tone deaf when she sings it, and I also like Stan Bush's work in TF: the movie. Unfortunately, I went looking for this rendition, and I think your info is incorrect. the general consensus is that Michael Bradley did Lancer's singing voice.

btw, along the way I found out some info that some of you may already know, but I'll post nevertheless. Apparently James Flinders (Liquid Snake) did the voices for Max and Lancer. Furthermore, the name itself is actually only a pseudonym for a guy named Cam Clarke. I remember seeing his name in the credits, but always thought he was Khyron because that character sounds so much more like Liquid Snake IMO. who would have thought?
 

jaydubnb

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Cam Clarke was also one of the Turtles on the old animated series, IIRC.
 
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