Origins of fighting mechanics

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RisingKnuckle

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I know we have a glossary of terms used in fighting games but I was wondering which games they originated from. Like the parry, juggles crossup, what games were the first to have these?
 
beelzebubble

beelzebubble

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-parry would be sf3
-juggle might be an early sf2 as some of those games had them unintentionally.. ppl thought they were cool so they got incorporated as a true mechanics element afaicr
-cross up would be sf2 afaicr
-bb is bread and butter, been round since sf2
-aa has been round since sf2
-overheads were in ssf2? or maybe they first appeared in alpha1 with ryu's f+MP
-combo/2 in 1/cancel is sf2
-supers were first in ff2? ffspc?

others?
 
SonGohan

SonGohan

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Super originated first in AOF, I'm pretty sure. With your Haoh Sho Ko Ken, and your ultra secret SDM. Dashes back and forth were first incorporated in AOF as well. Hops were incorporated first in FF2, but only backwards.
 
SouthtownKid

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beelzebubble said:
-parry would be sf3
-juggle might be an early sf2 as some of those games had them unintentionally.. ppl thought they were cool so they got incorporated as a true mechanics element afaicr
-cross up would be sf2 afaicr
-bb is bread and butter, been round since sf2
-aa has been round since sf2
-overheads were in ssf2? or maybe they first appeared in alpha1 with ryu's f+MP
-combo/2 in 1/cancel is sf2
-supers were first in ff2? ffspc?

others?
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Not to make a huge display of my ignorance, but what are 'aa' and 'bb'? Also, no overheads in SF2, I think the first was as you said, Ryu's in Alpha/Zero 1. Ken also had that Nerichagi or whatever, and there were probably others for the other characters.

As SonGohan said, dash and backstep, super special and SDM moves originated in AOF. Taunting also originated in AOF, as well as the camera zooming in and out (not really a gameplay feature). Counter moves were first introduced in FF2.
RisingKnuckle said:
I read that world heroes had some sort of parry move in it.
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The World Heroes series didn't have a parry, so much as a kind of reversal. If you blocked just before the instant of impact, a projectile would be bounced back at your opponent. It could turn into a mini game of volleyball in the middle of a match; I think you could bounce the projectile 5 or 6 times if I remember right. You could also reverse throws by pushing the throw button right after your opponent. Like the projectiles, this could be reversed and re-reversed about 5 times (freaking boss of WH2...). Actually, everything I mentioned about WH comes from 2...it was the only one I bought, so I'm not positive about the others.
 
beelzebubble

beelzebubble

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Not to make a huge display of my ignorance, but what are 'aa' and 'bb'?
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aa is anti air (dp, dragon punch or c.HP, etc are used as aa's), bb is bread and butter.. easy combos you should use as a characters staple attack.

:D
 
the_colonel

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Back dash
front dash
run
small jump
hop

Are these not the fundermentials of fighting games these days, also snk made them, hehe, so any other game has copied them haha.
 
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Kinniku

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Actually, World Heroes 1 has some kind of "just defend" technique. In the very instant you block, if you do a special move you can cancel the blockstun. And throws do count as special moves.
 
SouthtownKid

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tsukaesugi said:
Weren't parries in Fatal Fury Special? The (f + A) while blocking move.
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Those are more like counters, since you have to block first, and actually start the block animation before you do F+A. Kind of like a Zero/Alpha Counter except it doesn't take a power stock. First appeared in FF2.
 
tsukaesugi

tsukaesugi

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SouthtownKid said:
Those are more like counters, since you have to block first, and actually start the block animation before you do F+A. Kind of like a Zero/Alpha Counter except it doesn't take a power stock. First appeared in FF2.
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Sorry, I'm not much of a SF3 player... I've got it, but I haven't touched it in a few months.

What's the parry move in SF3? I'm guessing then that you can perform it in anticipation of your opponent's move without having to block first?
 
SonGohan

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Parrying in SF3 is pressing forward at the moment of impact. Kinda like a reverse just defend. Then you can retaliate.

However, I call the b - f + a moves in FFS "evade counters", because that's exactly what they are. You can use these to have projectiles fly right through you.
 
SouthtownKid

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tsukaesugi said:
Sorry, I'm not much of a SF3 player... I've got it, but I haven't touched it in a few months.

What's the parry move in SF3? I'm guessing then that you can perform it in anticipation of your opponent's move without having to block first?
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Pretty much...instead of blocking, you tap forward right at the moment of impact. If timed right, you parry and can follow up with an attack before your opponent recovers. If timed wrong, you eat whatever you were trying to parry, which is what makes people feel so l337 when they pull it off. If you miss a Just Defend, MotW's parry equivalent, you're still fine because you'll be blocking.

I'm not much of a SF3 player either, though. I've tried and failed several times to get into this game but it never holds my interest for more than 40 minutes or so.
 
tsukaesugi

tsukaesugi

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SouthtownKid said:
I'm not much of a SF3 player either, though. I've tried and failed several times to get into this game but it never holds my interest for more than 40 minutes or so.
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From what I've played, I really like it, but I haven't spent as much time with it as I have my Neo fighters recently.

Thanks for the info.
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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Good thread, guys!

When I posted my glossary entries I have tried to add infos to them about the origins and first-use of some techniques but it's far from being complete in that perspective, so thanks for the info posted so far, will update the glossary accordingly.

It's safe to say that Capcom sat many standards that are part of the core of almost any fighting game engine, be it a 2D or 3D game but SNK took it all a step further and came up with extra flashy elements such as supers, an idea that Capcom adopted for games like Super Turbo - wasn't it game that introduced super cancels?

Anyway, keep it coming.
 
beelzebubble

beelzebubble

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wasn't it game that introduced super cancels?
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wasnt it ex or sf3 that introduced super cancels? (i presume you mean a special into a super right?)
 
D

darkstalker

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darkstalker trilogy added :
- EX moves (more powerful version of basic special moves)
- Power of fireball (a strong one destroyes a weak one but becomes weak)
- new round system : winner don't get health back between rounds.
 
roker

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Kinniku said:
Killer Instinct
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no, darkstalkers was released in 94, while KI was released in 96

Also, dial-a-combos, wasn't that in MK3 first (1995)?
 
syringe

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the roker said:
no, darkstalkers was released in 94, while KI was released in 96

Also, dial-a-combos, wasn't that in MK3 first (1995)?
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I'm pretty sure MK2 had them to a lesser extent, but they became overgrown and annoying in MK3.
 
roker

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COMEDISDEGNO said:
Killer Instinct WAS released in 94.

About the topic, check here for a similar thread.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15950

Nice idea, though, we really should get more in deep.
And i think juggles were introduced in Power Instinct, back in 92.
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They were both released in 94, my eyes tricked me and I was looking at KI2 being released in 96.

But does anyone have an official release for Darkstalkers and KI?

Kind of like the tag feature being implemented by SNK first, slightly before Capcom.
 
Spike Spiegel

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SouthtownKid said:
Those are more like counters, since you have to block first, and actually start the block animation before you do F+A. Kind of like a Zero/Alpha Counter except it doesn't take a power stock. First appeared in FF2.
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True, but you didn't actually have to take a block. You can do that move with a fireball and it will go right through you. So, you don't actually take block damage if the move's a special if you don't want to.

Spike
 
D

darkstalker

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the roker said:
They were both released in 94, my eyes tricked me and I was looking at KI2 being released in 96.

But does anyone have an official release for Darkstalkers and KI?

Kind of like the tag feature being implemented by SNK first, slightly before Capcom.
Click to expand...


Anyway only the third of darkstalkers has this kind of rounds, so KI may be the first ;)
 
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