Change 24-bit back to 16-bit?

I still feel like it's an embarassment that we call it 24-bit now on this site. By no normal technical deifnition of bits is the Neo-Geo 24-bit. At least not that I've ever heard. Maybe someone can enlighten me, but I don't think so. Let's change it back.

The thing is that the Neo-Geo hardware has two main processors, a Motorola 68000@12.5Mhz, which is 16bit, and a Zilog Z80@4Mhz, which is 8bit.

16bit+8bit="24bit".

Not really 24bit, but sort of.

As I was saying, it does NOT matter what IT is ~called~

As long as we talk about videogames

~nya~

‰¼–Ê￾v

Mushiki said:

The thing is that the Neo-Geo hardware has two main processors, a Motorola 68000@12.5Mhz, which is 16bit, and a Zilog Z80@4Mhz, which is 8bit.

16bit+8bit="24bit".

Not really 24bit, but sort of.

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No, not sort of, definatly not. It's pathetic.

Can someone tell me how this is wrong?

Listen, it's clearly not an end of the world situation and I don't lose sloeep over it, but I just thought about it again and it does bother me that when someone asks how many bits the Neo-Geo is, all the knowledable technical people have to contend with that.

When my brother tells me that he's playing a game in 64-bit mode on his computer, it doesn't mean his processors...

Originally posted by Voltamp

IT IS NOT 24-BIT AND NEVER HAS BEEN

the logic used to get to this astounds me, the amiga was a 16bit computer but it had 4 CUSTOM chips in it. it would have been the first 64bit system by this logic

Also the megadrive wouldn't have been 16bit would it? no, thats 24bit as well. Oh and dont forget my pc 32 bit AMD athlon 128Bit Nvidia graphics chip and a 32 bit sound cpu, oh, i almost forgot it's got a 16bit NIC in it as well!

are we claiming the 16bit days never happened, were we all deluded? was 16bit something that happened in the early 80's?????

This is a respected site.

The neo is a 16-bit system

IF the neo was 24 bit it would have a greater colour pallete than 65,536 colours

i.e. 8bit colour = 256 colours
16bit colour = 65,536 colours
32bit colour = 16.7million

24 bit (somewhere in between, i cant remember)

seeing as the main cpu handles the graphics, if the co processor was video then it MIGHT be valid calling it 24-bit. but it isn't

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While not technically correct I kinda like the 24 bit name since it accomplishes a few things

It designates the forum as Neo only talk, while technically the Neo is not 24 bit, no other 16 bit console of the era could be confused for 24 bits.

24-bit is part of the history of the Neo, the marketing campaign and everything used by SNK emphasized the 24-bitness of the Neo.

In the end I like 24-bit but don't mind a switch back either.

I think you guys are taking this a BIT too seriously.

Voltamp said:

i.e. 8bit colour = 256 colours
16bit colour = 65,536 colours
32bit colour = 16.7million

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LOL !!

It has nothing to do with that !!

What about the Mega Drive, 512 Colors Pallete?

The color analogy Is correct, but not all consoles can display that
In that way.

Example : The Saturn and PSX have a 16.7 Million color pallete.
They can display up to 65,536 colors at the same time. 16.7 = Static.

Super Nintendo : 32,768 Colors Pallete. 256 at once ( without using HAM's or similar techs ).

The neo is a 16-bit system

IF the neo was 24 bit it would have a greater colour pallete than 65,536 colours

i.e. 8bit colour = 256 colours
16bit colour = 65,536 colours
32bit colour = 16.7million

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This are the most idiotic things I have ever heard.

Saying this would mean that the Super Famicom is a 8bit system (it can handle 256 onscreen colors), and that the PlayStation2 is 32bit.

I just cannot stop laughing.. we should all be glad that the first 64bit PC and Mac processors are appearing, now we can see more onscreen colors!

Thanks for the corrections guys, but then if you're so technically saavy please tell me your opinion of the situation instead of simply attacking this position. I don't know about these things firsthand, I just know what I'm told. But as I understand it there's something wrong with the 24-bit assessment of the Neo-Geo.

dmhawkmoon said:

Thanks for the corrections guys, but then if you're so technically saavy please tell me your opinion of the situation instead of simply attacking this position. I don't know about these things firsthand, I just know what I'm told. But as I understand it there's something wrong with the 24-bit assessment of the Neo-Geo.

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24 bit technically is wrong, but so is Jaguar's ads stating that the Jaguar was the first 64 bit system, it used dual 32 bit processors. The 24 bit is all marketing ploy, the system is 16 bit, it depends on which you would like to use.

Here's an IQ test question.


If Josh is a technical person.
And Josh believes naming NEO GEO 24bit is wrong.

Therefore :

A.) NEO GEO is wrong, 24bit should be the name of the hardware now.
B.) It takes 24bytes to get to the center of a NEO GEO.
C.) Josh is wrong, so therefore he is not a technical person.
D.) It is technical to think that naming NEO GEO 24bit is technically wrong.

It should be 24-bit if only for SNK calling it such. Come on, man, keep it like it is.

dmhawkmoon said:

Thanks for the corrections guys, but then if you're so technically saavy please tell me your opinion of the situation instead of simply attacking this position. I don't know about these things firsthand, I just know what I'm told. But as I understand it there's something wrong with the 24-bit assessment of the Neo-Geo.

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The Neo-Geo, wholly technically speaking, can process 24-bits using its dual-CPU's (well, I've never seen anyone meaningfully refute this). As I was taught in numerous electronic textbooks, the bit of a system is dependant on how much data can be handle by its CPU(s). I've never heard anyone refute the secondary 8-bit processor is anything but an 8-bit secondary CPU, they simply don't like it being called 24-bit because its main CPU is 16-bit. I cannot rule it out being 16-bit, but no one has ever actually shown ANYTHING on the forums that made it appear otherwise, except this CONSTANT assertion that a dual-CPU doesn't count (which is, electronically speaking, absolute bullshit).

The colors have nothing to do with the bits. That is simply the goddamn dumbest idea I've ever seen. Colors are dependant on the GPU, or graphics processing.

the logic used to get to this astounds me, the amiga was a 16bit computer but it had 4 CUSTOM chips in it. it would have been the first 64bit system by this logic

Click to expand...

Only if ALL FOUR acted together as a quadruple CPU structure. Your grade school style logic dictates that if in one situation you can add processor bits up, in all situations you must be able to do so. This sounds nice whne trying to make the opposing point look null and void, but it's frighteningly stupid. If all of them are CPU's acting together, then it's higher bit. Otherwise, you simply have extra processors.

jethrek said:

The Neo-Geo, wholly technically speaking, can process 24-bits using its dual-CPU's (well, I've never seen anyone meaningfully refute this). As I was taught in numerous electronic textbooks, the bit of a system is dependant on how much data can be handle by its CPU(s). I've never heard anyone refute the secondary 8-bit processor is anything but an 8-bit secondary CPU, they simply don't like it being called 24-bit because its main CPU is 16-bit. I cannot rule it out being 16-bit, but no one has ever actually shown ANYTHING on the forums that made it appear otherwise, except this CONSTANT assertion that a dual-CPU doesn't count (which is, electronically speaking, absolute bullshit).

The colors have nothing to do with the bits. That is simply the goddamn dumbest idea I've ever seen. Colors are dependant on the GPU, or graphics processing.



Only if ALL FOUR acted together as a quadruple CPU structure. Your grade school style logic dictates that if in one situation you can add processor bits up, in all situations you must be able to do so. This sounds nice whne trying to make the opposing point look null and void, but it's frighteningly stupid. If all of them are CPU's acting together, then it's higher bit. Otherwise, you simply have extra processors.

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No offense, but I call bullshit.

A dual CPU system running say two Opteron processors is NOT a 128bit system, it's still a 64bit system as that is the the maximum operating mode each processor can function in.

Your analogy is also flawed in that you are assuming the Z80 and the M68k function in a dual processor configuration, this is untrue. The M68k functions as the main CPU and the Z80 is like the sound card.

It's like having a Pentium 4 and a Radeon 9800 Pro with a Audigy 2 in your computer.

CPU = 32 bits, GPU = 256 bits, SPU = 24 bits. You can't add them all up and say it's a 312 bit system.

I can't believe this poll. Even SNK tried to claim it was 24-bit. So what if it wasn't. It distinguishes the Neo as the leader of the 16-bit pack, which it rightfully is. Don't you have more important things to worry about?

The fact that the forum is called 24bit now is some sort of in-house-running-gag of ng.com. Nothing to get too excited over because it's bullshit anyway. We know it, SNK knew it and the owner of this site (who initiated the change) knows it. At least I hope so.

The 24bit thing was a marketing gag, nothing more. There never was, nor will there ever be, a 24 bit system, period. So please ppl, stop those pathetic attempts to explain why 24bit would be correct, you're just making yourself look stupid.

mmmmm....IMO the neo geo is allot more impressive than the 16 Bit consoles that has been on the market, but saying that the Neo Geo in its early days with other competitors did handle more sprites etc and is classed as a 16 Bit generation console.

But Im still confussed myself

JHendrix said:

No offense, but I call bullshit.

A dual CPU system running say two Opteron processors is NOT a 128bit system, it's still a 64bit system as that is the the maximum operating mode each processor can function in.

Your analogy is also flawed in that you are assuming the Z80 and the M68k function in a dual processor configuration, this is untrue. The M68k functions as the main CPU and the Z80 is like the sound card.

It's like having a Pentium 4 and a Radeon 9800 Pro with a Audigy 2 in your computer.

CPU = 32 bits, GPU = 256 bits, SPU = 24 bits. You can't add them all up and say it's a 312 bit system.

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Thank you JHendrix! Clearly you paid attention in CPU Architecture.

Yes, having 2 processors is benifical, allowing you to multithread processes, but its does not handle 24-bit instructions.

NEO GEO still r0x0rz, and I don't care what peeps call it. 24-bit, 16-bit, it pwnz the rest of the video game world.

Devils Child said:

Don't you have more important things to worry about?

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Whether or not something is important is a matter of opinion. How about next time you post about a game you like I say, "Don't you have better games to play?" Besides, you took the time to post in here. I guess it's better to worry about the fact that I posted this? That's more important?

For your information, the forum used to be called "16-bit" for about 3 years until a few months ago, and there was never a concensus or anything about it. Shawn just decided to change it. I wanted to see what people really thought. This is a Neo-Geo site and this thread is about what to classify the Neo-Geo as.

Please think before you post...

jethrek said:

It should be 24-bit if only for SNK calling it such. Come on, man, keep it like it is.

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Propaganda. I actually think that if a company did something like this today they'd be sued for false advertising. If Apple advertised my computer as 500 bit (whatever is in here, I don't know, but hypothetically), would that be okay? SNK was catering to the misconception that bits = power. We can all see now that it's false. Everyone knows that the 32 bit Xbox is far more powerful than the 64 bit N64. This is a current website, not a thing of the past. When was the last time SNK called it 24-bit?

dmhawkmoon said:

Propaganda. I actually think that if a company did something like this today they'd be sued for false advertising. If Apple advertised my computer as 500 bit (whatever is in here, I don't know, but hypothetically), would that be okay? SNK was catering to the misconception that bits = power. We can all see now that it's false. Everyone knows that the 32 bit Xbox is far more powerful than the 64 bit N64. This is a current website, not a thing of the past. When was the last time SNK called it 24-bit?

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Got to agree with you here.

DC, PS2, GC and Xbox = 128-Bit era. Why ? They all have 128-Bit graphical capabilities and chips. Only the PS2 sports a 128-Bit CPU. The others are 64 and 32.

Bits are determined by graphical capacity, and therefore the Neo isn't capable of such thing.

"CPU = 32 bits, GPU = 256 bits, SPU = 24 bits. You can't add them all up and say it's a 312 bit system."

You fell right into the trap the other people did by mentioning this. What a waste, as I already pointed out that a fucking GPU is not acting as a CPU. You already refuted that the second processor was acting in conjunction with the first processor in handling instuructions, why include this crap to make yourself sound as if you didn't pay attention to my post?

dmhawkmoon said:

Propaganda. I actually think that if a company did something like this today they'd be sued for false advertising. If Apple advertised my computer as 500 bit (whatever is in here, I don't know, but hypothetically), would that be okay? SNK was catering to the misconception that bits = power. We can all see now that it's false. Everyone knows that the 32 bit Xbox is far more powerful than the 64 bit N64. This is a current website, not a thing of the past. When was the last time SNK called it 24-bit?

Click to expand...

"Yes, having 2 processors is benifical, allowing you to multithread processes, but its does not handle 24-bit instructions."

You are possibly the first person I've seen address it that understands it's not a matter of whether or not you can add a dual opteron, because that's completely meaningless. The actual programming for the chip amtters, so I'll bite. If the main data-bus is 24-bit, handling 24-bit instructions it would be 24-bit. If not, it is not. I'll take your word for it, as you seem better informed than the others in even showing such knowledge.

But that doesn't change my feeling at all that it shoulfd stay 24-bit. It should stay 24-bit BECAUSE of the retro-propoganda it serves up by being so. Whether or not it IS 24-bit is actually fairly irrrelevant, what matters in naming the forum is that SNK called it 24-bit when these things were new.

This is a gaming forum more than a tech talk forum still, right? Why act like a buncha techies when we're really a bunch of retro-gamers at heart.

It's like the whole "330 MEGA" thing. 330 Megabits isn't even remotely interesting, and the system actually went far above and beyond that claim, but it's a piece of SNK history.

jethrek said:

"CPU = 32 bits, GPU = 256 bits, SPU = 24 bits. You can't add them all up and say it's a 312 bit system."

You fell right into the trap the other people did by mentioning this. What a waste, as I already pointed out that a fucking GPU is not acting as a CPU. You already refuted that the second processor was acting in conjunction with the first processor in handling instuructions, why include this crap to make yourself sound as if you didn't pay attention to my post?



"Yes, having 2 processors is benifical, allowing you to multithread processes, but its does not handle 24-bit instructions."

You are possibly the first person I've seen address it that understands it's not a matter of whether or not you can add a dual opteron, because that's completely meaningless. The actual programming for the chip amtters, so I'll bite. If the main data-bus is 24-bit, handling 24-bit instructions it would be 24-bit. If not, it is not. I'll take your word for it, as you seem better informed than the others in even showing such knowledge.

But that doesn't change my feeling at all that it shoulfd stay 24-bit. It should stay 24-bit BECAUSE of the retro-propoganda it serves up by being so. Whether or not it IS 24-bit is actually fairly irrrelevant, what matters in naming the forum is that SNK called it 24-bit when these things were new.

This is a gaming forum more than a tech talk forum still, right? Why act like a buncha techies when we're really a bunch of retro-gamers at heart.

It's like the whole "330 MEGA" thing. 330 Megabits isn't even remotely interesting, and the system actually went far above and beyond that claim, but it's a piece of SNK history.

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I concur. We all know that there's no real 24-bit processing involved - but I think it's important to preserve those quirky little tidbits of SNK history .

jethrek said:

"CPU = 32 bits, GPU = 256 bits, SPU = 24 bits. You can't add them all up and say it's a 312 bit system."

You fell right into the trap the other people did by mentioning this. What a waste, as I already pointed out that a fucking GPU is not acting as a CPU. You already refuted that the second processor was acting in conjunction with the first processor in handling instuructions, why include this crap to make yourself sound as if you didn't pay attention to my post?

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No, I actually read your post, but it's obvious you didn't read mine.

The Z80 IS NOT ACTING AS A SECOND CPU! It is acting in the same way the processor on your sound card does, as a peripheral to the main CPU.

Hence by your logic of calling it 24bit you're adding together the bits of the CPU and the sound processor, which is directly equivalent to adding up the bits of a CPU, GPU, and SPU in a modern PC - which, as with all of this, is just plain stupid.

And thanks BigShady, I did pay attention in Computer Architecture.