9.11: What really happened?
- Thread starter Kid Aphex
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I'm going with unaware of a specific threat. But they did use it to their own cause that Bush had in his head since he was elected.
Kid Aphex
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lithy said:
You're right.
In fact, since Bush was elected he'd planned an all-out war on Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein. He simply needed american support, and support abroad for the war.
In fact,
Many of Bush's cabinet members were/are members of the PNAC---the Project for a New American Century.
These are a group of Neo-Conservatives who, since their inception, have been supporting a more militant role in the Middle East to secure Oil.
To quote ABCNews.com:
The group, the Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, was founded in 1997. Among its supporters were three Republican former officials who were sitting out the Democratic presidency of Bill Clinton: Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz.
In open letters to Clinton and GOP congressional leaders the next year, the group called for "the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power" and a shift toward a more assertive U.S. policy in the Middle East, including the use of force if necessary to unseat Saddam.
And in a report just before the 2000 election that would bring Bush to power, the group predicted that the shift would come about slowly, unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."
That event came on Sept. 11, 2001. By that time, Cheney was vice president, Rumsfeld was secretary of defense, and Wolfowitz his deputy at the Pentagon.
A new Pearl Harbor huh?
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Kid Aphex said:
Numbers were about the same just under 3k at the WTC about 200 more from PA and DC. I'm pretty sure Pearl Harbor was about 3k as well.
Of course a few will come in how we're just spouting off conspiracy theories but I still fail to realize how they choose to see some of the signs.
Oh well, what I'm more scared of is that Bush will get reelected solely because of the lack of a single strong Democratic candidate.
Kid Aphex
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lithy said:
The bottom line is:
The SCIENCE behind the collapse of the WTC doesn't make any sense what-so-ever.
There are enough problems with the collapse itself to raise a few red-flags. But people are ignorant.
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Kid Aphex said:
I guess I haven't been keeping up much lately so I don't think I've seen any of these reports? Got any quick links for some reading?
Kid Aphex
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For those of you who don't believe our govt is capable of murdering its own people, I suggest you read about Project Northwoods.
It was a plan drawn up by the NSA and presented to then-president Kennedy...it involved HIJACKING AMERICAN PLANES AND CRASHING THEM, possibly sabotaging John Glenn's space flight, and using terrorist attacks on citizens and military bases in Florida and blaming the attacks on Cubans...all to drum up support for an invasion.
Kennedy, one of the LAST Presidents with a bit of courage, turned down the plans without a second thought.
Kennedy didn't like to "play ball" with any of the "higher ups" actually. He was known for going his own way.
He was also assasinated.
No big deal.
It was a plan drawn up by the NSA and presented to then-president Kennedy...it involved HIJACKING AMERICAN PLANES AND CRASHING THEM, possibly sabotaging John Glenn's space flight, and using terrorist attacks on citizens and military bases in Florida and blaming the attacks on Cubans...all to drum up support for an invasion.
Kennedy, one of the LAST Presidents with a bit of courage, turned down the plans without a second thought.
Kennedy didn't like to "play ball" with any of the "higher ups" actually. He was known for going his own way.
He was also assasinated.
No big deal.
Buro Destruct
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The U.S knew and not only did nothng to stop it, but likely provided the means and the resources for completing the task.
I can't understand how people choose to remain on the side of the U.S government given the sudden radical shift in the Government's interest in the protection and "safety" of its own people has skyrockted and brought along with it numerous programs and initiatives that would see us involuntarily reporting every single piece of minutae that we produce on a daily basis. They're doing it to keep tabs on everybody, they're not looking for terrorists, they're looking for control at even the smallest level.
If you take a look at the state of the Union prior to 9.11 half the shit they're trying to pull post 9.11 on federal, state, and even local levels wouldn't get even get the slightest approval from the public.
I can't understand how people choose to remain on the side of the U.S government given the sudden radical shift in the Government's interest in the protection and "safety" of its own people has skyrockted and brought along with it numerous programs and initiatives that would see us involuntarily reporting every single piece of minutae that we produce on a daily basis. They're doing it to keep tabs on everybody, they're not looking for terrorists, they're looking for control at even the smallest level.
If you take a look at the state of the Union prior to 9.11 half the shit they're trying to pull post 9.11 on federal, state, and even local levels wouldn't get even get the slightest approval from the public.
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Buro Destruct said:
Of cours, the PATRIOT Act could never go through in a non state of war USA. But with a good name like Patriot when everyone likes to sticker 10 flags and retarded tag line slogans that showed up after 9.11 (Power of Pride, These Colors Don't Run, all stupid shit) that got pushed through on the 12th. Do it fast enough and people don't have time to think, they just want something to feel comfortable.
Kid Aphex
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lithy said:
Not really, but you can search for this sort of thing yourself.
Things to pay attention to or do research on:
- Specialists say the extreme heat of the jet fuel melted the steel support columns in the towers, causing them to collapse.
With this in mind:
- Search for the burning temperature of Jet Fuel
- Search for the melting point of steel
- Search for Structural plans of the WTC that support the Steel-Column theory
- Search for timelines of the collapse
- Search for eyewitness testimony from firefighters who saw and heard explosions in the towers
- Search for video footage of DEMOLITION charges going off in the towers
- Search for information on how a BUILDING whose CENTRAL SUPPORT COLUMN is damaged COLLAPSES; see if its ANYTHING like an implosion
- Watch the WTC's BEAUTIFUL implosion
- Read about how precisely explosives need to be placed in buildings to produce such an implosion
- Read about how the crew the US Govt hired to haul away the debris didn't let anyone inspect any of it
- Read about how that crew's name is: Controlled Demolition
- Read about how their profession is actually ... controlled demolition
- Read about how they were also called in for the OK City clean up....
There's tons more.
Kid Aphex
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lithy said:
Interestingly enough, do you know when president bush signed in the Patriot Act 2?
....
Why, the morning Saddam Hussein was 'captured'!!!!
Can you guess how many US-Run media outlets ran the story of Bush signing it into effect?
That's right...Zero.
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Kid Aphex said:
Alright cool. But I gotta get some sleep soon, I'll do it tomorrow
Hope that MO is getting there soon 
Kid Aphex
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As everyone's aware, the WTC building no. 7 collapsed later in the day. Recently, on a PBS special covering 9.11, Larry Silverstein [lease-owner of the WTC complex] spoke about the day it all went down.
He said that because they couldn't keep the fires contained, he and firefighters made the decision to "pull it"
Watch the IMPLOSION of WTC 7...it's a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION JOB. PURE AND SIMPLE.
In the demolition business, to "pull" it means to demolish it.
This means there were EXPLOSIVES in the building.
Ask yourself:
WHAT were explosives doing in the building?
DID firefighters and a controlled demolition crew set them up, while the building was on fire, in only a few hours?
WHY did the FEMA report regarding the WTC7 collapse SPECIFICALLY contradict controlled demolition DESPITE Larry Silverstein's RECENT admittance?
He said that because they couldn't keep the fires contained, he and firefighters made the decision to "pull it"
Watch the IMPLOSION of WTC 7...it's a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION JOB. PURE AND SIMPLE.
In the demolition business, to "pull" it means to demolish it.
This means there were EXPLOSIVES in the building.
Ask yourself:
WHAT were explosives doing in the building?
DID firefighters and a controlled demolition crew set them up, while the building was on fire, in only a few hours?
WHY did the FEMA report regarding the WTC7 collapse SPECIFICALLY contradict controlled demolition DESPITE Larry Silverstein's RECENT admittance?
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X said:
Hah, care to reason why? Because as you've seen we've reasoned why it could be completely true. And to think our government has never lied to us or done something the public would not be proud of. That, would be ridiculous.
Buro Destruct
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http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15541
Here's a news article with a link to a draft for The Patriot Act 2. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND everybody read it, especially Section 124 concerning Multi-Function Devices and how the government would be able to monitor all incoming and outgoing transmissions from a given device (computer, PDA, cellphone, etc) whether or not the function being monitored has anything to do with what the government is monitoring for in the first place.
Here's a news article with a link to a draft for The Patriot Act 2. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND everybody read it, especially Section 124 concerning Multi-Function Devices and how the government would be able to monitor all incoming and outgoing transmissions from a given device (computer, PDA, cellphone, etc) whether or not the function being monitored has anything to do with what the government is monitoring for in the first place.
Eric
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Kid Aphex said:
I see all these as conspiracy "theory" until I get some really hard evidence not just a "theory. The key word in conspiracy theory is "theory".
Mind you I am open to all possibilities. Just give me solid evidence, not stuff that came from a conspiracy website or anti-Bush website.
Are you open to the possibility that they were not aware of a specific threat?
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X said:
So you're saying until Fox News reports that the US Gov did it you won't believe it? You can't say you are open to other sides then discredit opposing sources based on their motives alone. All information sources have motives, you need to read everything, recognize that, and draw your own conclusions. You have a 'theory' that the US had no involvement in it. I won't believe otherwise until some non-rightwing non Pro-Bush site reports it.
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The US Govt. Was Aware of the Specific Threat, and Allowed it to Happen to Help Further their Cause
I've had my suspicions from day one, mostly because of the missile defense posturing Bush was doing summer 2001. I mean, why set up an anti missile shield, when the only people who have missle programs capable of reaching us were considered allies? The whole thing smelled as if the Bush regime wanted to do something big militarily in the near future. Then, lo and behold, 9/11 happens almost too coincidentally soon after. the decision to take military action in Iraq is simply the icing on the cake for this string of coincidences IMO.
Anyway, I usually keep this viewpoint on the D/L to keep from being branded a cynic at best, and unamerican/unpatriotic/etc... at worst.
I've had my suspicions from day one, mostly because of the missile defense posturing Bush was doing summer 2001. I mean, why set up an anti missile shield, when the only people who have missle programs capable of reaching us were considered allies? The whole thing smelled as if the Bush regime wanted to do something big militarily in the near future. Then, lo and behold, 9/11 happens almost too coincidentally soon after. the decision to take military action in Iraq is simply the icing on the cake for this string of coincidences IMO.
Anyway, I usually keep this viewpoint on the D/L to keep from being branded a cynic at best, and unamerican/unpatriotic/etc... at worst.
Kid Aphex
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Eric said:
That's a great link, and honestly, I hadn't found such a scientific and well-explained offering on the web yet.
I'd like to believe it, definitely.
Still, when there's subtle visual evidence of demolition charges:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/demolition/controlled.htm
Along with Larry Silverstein, the owner of the complex ADMITTING to putting charges in the WTC7 building prior to the attack...it's just a bit fishy to me.
It's all the more interesting none of this information is ever carried on mainstream news. We're just shoveled out explanations...like I said, until now, I hadn't read a thorough explanation for the collapse.
Because of this lack of substance, I like to keep my eyes/mind open for other possibilities. I don't want to RIGHT OUT accuse the govt [mostly because i'll probly be locked up with my rights taken away...] because it's unfair and a bit outlandish. Still, no one can deny all of the blatant "mysteries" surrounding 9.11.
Kid Aphex
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X said:
Definitely I am. Read my post above.
But make sure you look into Project Northwoods. Basically, it'll make you rethink the just how low a govt can sink---regardless of political party.
The important thing to keep in mind, is this isn't a bush bashing thread. And it's not a Republicans Vs Dem's thread either...that way we can keep the discussion civil
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