Stinger Report = Bye Bye MVS Cartridge?

Dear Forum,

The Stinger Report is running a feature on the SNKP / Sammy IP merger speculation, but while compiling this report, it was confirmed that SNKP has decided that for international release no more MVS cartridges will be used. The company having reverted to MVS-1 JAMMA boards for their games. We had reported this before in the forum, following information from our sources and a feature in the Stinger, but was shot down by members claiming that this could not be the case. Now with the confirmation that ‘Metal Slug 5’ is only released as a JAMMA board it seems its time for the forum to admit the inevitable.

So that bring me to the main question to throw open (and which we would like to report in the Stinger) – now SNKP has stopped supporting the MVS cartridge system dose this make a big difference to your support of the company and its brands? Just as an aside, it has to be considered that there is no confirmation that AES cartridge versions will not come out, but as PS2 releases are being announced in faster numbers to AES release dates the vultures are circling.

Thanks in advance for all the comments to come.

Well considering that SSV didn't see a PCB release and SVC is coming on MVS cart, I am going to be the first to call bullshit.

Merging with Sammy? Doubtful.

While they might release PCB at first they will always go back to MVS carts. The SVC Pre-Order will prove that they need it to sell more carts.

Tricky business, this.

First off, one can never truly trust a company at its public word (meaning SNK-P or any other entity). Their word is as good as their current financial outlook, nothing more. That having been said, while it would certainly disappoint me, it would not surprise me that SNK-P may ditch the MVS cart. SvC: Chaos blew through its MVS board units in terms of sales. Obviously, the fact that it was a board rather tha a cart did not hinder their ability to move units. Could they have moved more units had the initial price point been lower and the form factor been the cart? Possibly, but would that have translated into a higher profit margin? I don't know.

If they stuck with carts, there would probably be more untis out there to be played, but with the rapidity of ROM dumps and the subsequent bootlegging, carts may be more of a liability than an asset. Believe me, no one more than me wants them to stick with the MVS cart. I opted for the SvC MVS cart over the home cart and really don't want to have to mess with switching out boards to play different games.

But, my concern is not that of SNK-P. My machine sits at my house on free play. I am not an opperator. I am not trying to make money from my copy of Matrimelee or what have you. While I may piss and moan on some BBS about not being able to enjoy the SNK-P stuff in the form factor that I would like, I am really inconsequential when it comes to moving arcade units.

To be honest, I am still, to this day a bit suspect of the SvC MVS carts making it to market. They have been delayed so many times that I am beginning to think that the delays are less about parts and more about a waivering decision as to whether or not to release them.

In any case,my support of SNK-P games won't waiver. I still like the products. I'll simply have to buy them in the Home Cart form factor, even though I don't like playing them that way nearly as much as on my MVS 4 slot cab. The ports will never, truly get my whole hearted enthusiasm simply because they are that: ports. Ports can be great, but they are not the original. And I am not a port snob either. I do enjoy them and even buy them, but I still prefer to play the originals.

I truly hope the MVS Cart is not dead, but judging at how fast SSV/0 was dumped, I can certainly see why they may abandon the form factor. Who knows. Perhaps a decision like this will lead us into an era of a new cart based system (Atomiswave?) with greater graphical and sound capabilities. I'll sure miss my select button though.

Stinger Report = Re Re

Seems ‘Angel Love Slave’ has miss-understood (purposely or otherwise) what was originally stated. To tackle the issues in reverse order:

1. It is the policy of SNKUSA that international manufacture first run will be JAMMA board, with the holes in availability after this made up by Asian cartridge versions, though it is hoped in the future that only JAMMA will be released State side.

2. I did not say a merger between Sammy and SNKP, I said “…the SNKP / Sammy IP merger…” If you are having problems IP means Intellectual Property in that statement. The speculation is supported by two very well placed SNKP executives and one Sammy representative, all talking of at least two other brands on the table for ATOMISWAVE adoption (watch this space!)

3. Finally, SSV was not released by SNKP, but by Apple Industries in the States, who have (for the time being) the rights to release NeoGeo MVS in cartridge format, while SNK NeoGeo Amusement USA seem only to have released JAMMA – please be very careful when commenting on the amusement sector, this is our business, and not bullsh*t either!

Re: Stinger Report = Re Re

editor said:

Seems ‘Angel Love Slave’ has miss-understood (purposely or otherwise) what was originally stated. To tackle the issues in reverse order:

1. It is the policy of SNKUSA that international manufacture first run will be JAMMA board, with the holes in availability after this made up by Asian cartridge versions, though it is hoped in the future that only JAMMA will be released State side.

2. I did not say a merger between Sammy and SNKP, I said “…the SNKP / Sammy IP merger…” If you are having problems IP means Intellectual Property in that statement. The speculation is supported by two very well placed SNKP executives and one Sammy representative, all talking of at least two other brands on the table for ATOMISWAVE adoption (watch this space!)

3. Finally, SSV was not released by SNKP, but by Apple Industries in the States, who have (for the time being) the rights to release NeoGeo MVS in cartridge format, while SNK NeoGeo Amusement USA seem only to have released JAMMA – please be very careful when commenting on the amusement sector, this is our business, and not bullsh*t either!

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Fine with me really... I would rather see MVS carts, but if there will only be Asian MVS carts and not English, it doesn't bother me one bit. As for going to pure JAMMA board? Well I'd move on... the novelty of the Neo Geo is it's cartridge format. I frankly don't think the games are good enough anymore to warrant a PCB swap... especially if they are using dated MVS hardware as the main board... In the end, I could care less, like I said, because the only game I want on the horizon is Dance Rhythm Mix... and that is being done by ADK! So... cart for sure...

-Nick

Re: Stinger Report = Re Re

editor said:

Seems ‘Angel Love Slave’ has miss-understood (purposely or otherwise) what was originally stated. To tackle the issues in reverse order:

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Seems like 'New Challenger' is adding more to the story

1. It is the policy of SNKUSA that international manufacture first run will be JAMMA board, with the holes in availability after this made up by Asian cartridge versions, though it is hoped in the future that only JAMMA will be released State side.

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Now you are repeating what I said about first run will be PCB. Previously you stated that there will be no MVS carts produced ever.

You also mention Aisan carts but if MVS is dead then there is no Asian carts either.

2. I did not say a merger between Sammy and SNKP, I said “…the SNKP / Sammy IP merger…” If you are having problems IP means Intellectual Property in that statement. The speculation is supported by two very well placed SNKP executives and one Sammy representative, all talking of at least two other brands on the table for ATOMISWAVE adoption (watch this space!)

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Misunderstanding on my part

3. Finally, SSV was not released by SNKP, but by Apple Industries in the States, who have (for the time being) the rights to release NeoGeo MVS in cartridge format, while SNK NeoGeo Amusement USA seem only to have released JAMMA – please be very careful when commenting on the amusement sector, this is our business, and not bullsh*t either!

Click to expand...

Ok again you mentioning regions when previously you neglected to bring that subject up.

Apple released SSV in the States...correct but it was also released as MVS in Japan by SNKP.

And FYI SNK USA doesn't manfacture a damn thing, they put out what SNKJP makes.

So if this is your business then I suggest you be more careful when making a "news" posts because you seem to leave out key parts and then change your story around.

Re: Re: Stinger Report = Re Re

nruva said:

Fine with me really... I would rather see MVS carts, but if there will only be Asian MVS carts and not English, it doesn't bother me one bit. As for going to pure JAMMA board? Well I'd move on... the novelty of the Neo Geo is it's cartridge format.

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Well said. I don't care in the slightest what language is on the label -- I'm a player, not a collector/speculator. Having said that, having fewer carts worldwide may make them harder to get ahold of...

Stinger Report = Re Re

Angel Love Slave, the forum is a brief conversation piece and not a chance to re-print Stinger Report features. If you need the micro-detail then subscribe to the service.

You seem to scan the original comment too quickly and missed the comments, your now claiming were missing. The original piece said ‘..international..’ nothing to do with Asian, that’s why we were right about the SSV information, and regarding the disposition of cartridges.

First run (i.e. for the USA) will be JAMMA, and any short falls will come from Asian cartridge stocks, though this has yet to happen.

Also SNKUSA uses SNK NeoGeo (Sun Amusement) to make their runs, and are only allowed to consider JAMMA boards (which I think will be mainly built in HK for MS5 and KoF03, though not 100% on that).

Read the original mail more carefully, that’s why we have a strong following, our news is on the money!

Just wanted to say, RyoGeo, that releasing SVC as a PCB didn't slow down the dumping process one iota. In fact I have my suspicions that there are already bootleg Slug 5 carts floating around based on dumps of the PCB ROMs.
Therefore, SNK Playmore's logic of releasing these games as PCBs kind of escapes me. It can't be a cost issue....

Re: Stinger Report = Re Re

editor said:

Angel Love Slave, the forum is a brief conversation piece and not a chance to re-print Stinger Report features. If you need the micro-detail then subscribe to the service.

You seem to scan the original comment too quickly and missed the comments, your now claiming were missing. The original piece said ‘..international..’ nothing to do with Asian, that’s why we were right about the SSV information, and regarding the disposition of cartridges.

First run (i.e. for the USA) will be JAMMA, and any short falls will come from Asian cartridge stocks, though this has yet to happen.

Also SNKUSA uses SNK NeoGeo (Sun Amusement) to make their runs, and are only allowed to consider JAMMA boards (which I think will be mainly built in HK for MS5 and KoF03, though not 100% on that).

Read the original mail more carefully, that’s why we have a strong following, our news is on the money!

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Ok again you said no more MVS carts which means noone will make them but now there will always be MVS carts in Japan?

Here's my question:

WHY CAN"T THEY PUT A CART SLOT ON THESE DEDICATED PCBS?!!

Think about it - SvC built in, then an empty cart slot so you can employ a second game! It would be great. I don't know why they don't do it, it couldn't cost that much money, and surely ops would like it, right?

The games are what I buy, NOT the format. I will continue to purchase SNKP games, be they in JAMMA board or Atomiswave cartridge format.

Geddon_jt said:

Just wanted to say, RyoGeo, that releasing SVC as a PCB didn't slow down the dumping process one iota.

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Ah, that may be. I was just going on how fast sprites and emulated screen images showed up and it seemed as if the SvC stuff took quite a while in contrast to the SSV stuff. SSV seemed to be dumped prior to the game's release.

In any case, it sounds as if the ROM dumping is just as fast be it MVS board or MVS cart. That being the case, I guess I don't see the logic in producing a more expensive board, i.e; replacing the mother board with every release.

Also, with the clarification that "editor" offered, it looks like carts will still be available if maybe not as common. I guess I will just have to look longer and spend more to get MVS carts now. Oh well.

I think its BS but had they turned to only PS2, I would laugh at their demise and go back to whatever is left on cartridge and DC.

Re: Stinger Report = Re Re

editor said:

Angel Love Slave

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You're telling him he didn't read the original comment well enough, but you don't even know how to find someone's user name?

Dear Editor,

Why are you using these forums as a vehicle to fuel conversation for input that will then be used on your own site.

As far as i know, it is nothing more than a) blatant solicitation for your own site and b) harvesting information based on the neo-geo.com database. That is to say....you are spamming us and looking to harvest results.

I think you would need permission from Shawn in order to continue your chosen method of business. Considering you only post on this forum to post these "Stinger reports" I somehow fail to consider you a valued member of the forum....and thus your motives are suspect.

Re: Re: Stinger Report = Re Re

dmhawkmoon said:

You're telling him he didn't read the original comment well enough, but you don't even know how to find someone's user name?

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Well what do you expect from a New Challenger

RevQuixo said:

Dear Editor,

Why are you using these forums as a vehicle to fuel conversation for input that will then be used on your own site.

As far as i know, it is nothing more than a) blatant solicitation for your own site and b) harvesting information based on the neo-geo.com database. That is to say....you are spamming us and looking to harvest results.

I think you would need permission from Shawn in order to continue your chosen method of business. Considering you only post on this forum to post these "Stinger reports" I somehow fail to consider you a valued member of the forum....and thus your motives are suspect.

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Well said! Thank you

BTW, Editor, When you say international and you're located in the US wouldn't we consider Asia as being international.

Your initial report was very vague and required further information. If this is how you divulge information why would anyone want to subscribe to your service?

My 2 cents.

as a home user the mvs carts are nice for the ease of storage and swapping games can be a bit easier, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. jamma or mvs. Pulling the jamma connector off one board and putting it onto another really isn't all that difficult, and its only one board. The naomi or cps3 setups are a collection of parts that have to be assembled which is way more of a pain than one connection.

The guys dumping are going to dump regardless of format, the only thing going to slow them down is a series of copy protection measures.

I think it was spyro 2 that had not only an easy to find copy protection at the start of the game, but another one 20 minutes in that was buried and much harder to break. It saved spyro from a playable copied version for about 4 months. not bad all things considered. The guys doing the dumping aren't playing games for more than a minute or two after the dump.

OMG didnt realize you charge a subscription fee for the "Stingring Report", thats hilarious. I hate when people run through here shouting "official word! I got the official word!" until the word is given by SNKP or through Shawn or Trieu I could care less what is said.

- Publisher

Catman said:

BTW, Editor, When you say international and you're located in the US wouldn't we consider Asia as being international.

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When he said international, I took it to mean international as in worldwide. Just shows how stupid we are.

I am a collector of MVS cartridges,
not arcade pcbs in the sense of the long boards.
besides, I don't have the room for them.
I already can't walk in my closet anymore.

Stinger Report = Re Re

Talk about attacking the messenger.

Okay let’s set some things straight, and then if this communication is still felt unfair we will gladly leave you to your own devises:

1. Q: You didn’t even know how to find his username!
A: Well sorry, am only checking in to this forum occasionally as I have a life, if members can not comment on the forum unless you’re an elder statements of the site then bite me!

2. Q: Why are you using the Forum as a vehicle for the Stinger!
A: I was actually sharing information and contacting one of the repositories of fans for the system and brand. I have personally shared editorial from the Stinger with non-subscribers at this site since joining, mainly as a thank you for information supplied (look back on your history, rather than being so judgemental).

As a number of forum members are also subscribers to the Stinger I want to keep the interchange going. If that means that if you are linked to the topic or supply news, and can’t comment, you had better think again.

3. Q…Blatant Soliciting!
A: Yes we want to find more subscribers from the fans, than just from the trade, but there’s nothing blatant, we are quite clear what we are doing, and attempting to share and offer something back. Is that a problem?

4. Q…Harvesting information!
A: Again quite upfront about the collection of the information (or did you miss that!) and the finished article will be on the forum, as with the last two times we ‘Harvested’ information.

5. Q…Your Spamming Us!
A: Woo, hold it right there, we supply information, offer observation and have been supporting this and other sites for some time, and now we are ‘Spamming’, if that is the general feeling your on your own!

6. Q…you only post on this forum…
A: oh how wrong you are again - we post at the following;
ChaseEngine, SNK-Capcom, NeoGeo Mailing and Neo-Geo… this is just for SNK, while we use JEUX-FRANCE, SIRIOB and Neo-Arcadia for foreign input. It seems your ego about being the only source out there is off the mark.

7. Q: I fail to see you as a valued member…
A: Who died and made you president! If this is your personal thiefdom then I am sorry to borrow your thunder with a interesting topic, and will leave you to play with your ball on your own!

8. Q: Wouldn’t we consider Asia International?
A: Now I have heard it all. The machines are developed in Japan, manufactured either in Japan or HK and so any sales out side of Asia (Taiwan, Japan, China, Hong Kong, Korea etc.) are treated as International!

9. Q: Initial Report was too Vague!
A: A question was asked, which was brief, if I had written four paragraphs then I would have been accused of being a blatant harvester… whoops already have been, if you want the SNK / Sammy IP full feature from the November Stinger on the board I will gladly do that, but just watch the fur fly when I do that from certain parties!

10. A question back to some of the members who replied with the BS claim!
Listen we at the Stinger keep an open mind, and when we are wrong we admit it, but one thing I personally have noticed, that the BS artists when they are proven wrong will do anything they can either to forget their comment or change the subject. We stand by the MVS cart information, who is prepared to tell me that in America will be seeing more MVS carts from SNKUSA?

To the forum as a whole, this has been a news and speculation interchange, which this information service has been happy to share its views with, but if it is a forum that is ruled by the above then I will gladly move on. Just confirm this is the majority feeling and then adieus.

All the best,

7zark7 said:

as a home user the mvs carts are nice for the ease of storage and swapping games can be a bit easier, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. jamma or mvs. Pulling the jamma connector off one board and putting it onto another really isn't all that difficult, and its only one board. The naomi or cps3 setups are a collection of parts that have to be assembled which is way more of a pain than one connection.

The guys dumping are going to dump regardless of format, the only thing going to slow them down is a series of copy protection measures.

I think it was spyro 2 that had not only an easy to find copy protection at the start of the game, but another one 20 minutes in that was buried and much harder to break. It saved spyro from a playable copied version for about 4 months. not bad all things considered. The guys doing the dumping aren't playing games for more than a minute or two after the dump.

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No no, spyro's was amazing. What they did was slowly remove crystals from the levels as you progressed... so it was impossible to move to the next level. The cool thing about that was, people never knew it was happening, and it was hard to finally get it totally cracked... took almost 6 months! A lot of people thought it worked, then were stumped on where to find that last crystal or two on the level... GOOD SHIT!

-Nick

Why do I feel that if "editor" were here bringing good news, everyone would love him for being here?

Posts from "editor" are certainly worth a lot more of my time than about 80% of the rest of "teh krap" that is hosted here. Man, if you're gonna attack a guy for bringing info. and asking what you think, maybe you should stick to print.

I don't believe everything I read 100% from "editor," but that's not because I don't trust the guy. It's because I don't trust that SNK-P or anyone else speaking publicly about their business is completely forthcoming.

Like I said, if the message were a happy one, I doubt the reaction would be as it has been.

Knowledge is built on having multiple resources. This resource, "editor," is handing you information without you having to look for it. Take it as you will and form your own opinions.

Geez, you'd think the guy were trying to sell "teh r0mZ."