KOF 2003 port compatability question

Ok, please dont make this into an AES-MVS ONLY!!! / PORTS SUCK thread because many, many people can only enjoy SNK games on DC and PS2 for various reasons. The ports on DC were great and the PS2 ports look to be coming along fantastically too.

This is a question alot of people will be asking:

i want to know if KOF 2003 is going to be possible on a non cart system. I mean, MVC2 and other tag fighters were possible on ps2 and DC (though im not counting on a dc port since chaos isnt even announced for DC yet), there were only possible because of the relative lack of animation in MVC2 and the fact that other tag games only featured four people.

Like, is it going to be possible for six animation heavy KOF characters to all be loaded at one time?! Like i said before, MVC2 could do six characters because the animation was total shit.

This is a serious question, because it's a given that SNK will want to port over KOF 2003 (probably in a 2002/2003 pack on ps2 like they are doin in 2 weeks with 2000 and 2001) and i dont want to see the cut animation shit that was in Neo Geo CD games or the ps1 ports.


So in your opinion, will this game be possible on PS2 or DC?

Lack of animation in Marvel vs Capcom 2? You are fucking joking, right?

Anyway, if the fucking Neo Geo can do it, then the PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, and fucking Dreamcast can do it.

If SF:TS can run on dc flawlessly, I don't see why anyone would think kof2k3 wouldn't. (Besides the typical sloppy porting by snkp) And will no doubt get released on PS2 without any animation cuts. The PS2 2k port is fantastic, and I imagine the 2k3 port will be just as good once it inevitably arrives.

The current systems are so powerful that I don't think ANY 2D game currently out, with the possible exception of the 4P GGX game that's in arcades, would be hard to port at all.

Neo-Geo games certainly wouldn't be a problem.

Lee

jeff_mangum said:

Lack of animation in Marvel vs Capcom 2? You are fucking joking, right?

Anyway, if the fucking Neo Geo can do it, then the PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, and fucking Dreamcast can do it.

Click to expand...

the animation in MVC2 was choppy as hell compared to snk fighters.

and the neo can do it because of the cart format. As expensive and old as it is, it still has the advantage of no loading. The loading is what im worried about with 2003, because it would have to load all 6 characters and all their animations, the stage, and other things into the ram at once. They might have to load the sound effects and music right off the cd, which would suck cause thats one of the only things i didnt like with the ports.

rebellion1 said:

So in your opinion, will this game be possible on PS2 or DC?

Click to expand...

You're kidding, right?

Lyte Edge said:

The current systems are so powerful that I don't think ANY 2D game currently out, with the possible exception of the 4P GGX game that's in arcades, would be hard to port at all.

Neo-Geo games certainly wouldn't be a problem.

Lee

Click to expand...

again, the 4 player guilty gear only features four people which isnt a problem with loading in at once. Plus the animation in GG isn't as high as KOF.

Im not sayin KOF has MOTW animation, but the main thing is cramming all of that into the ram on the ps2/DC at ONCE.

For example, remember the old ridge racer on ps1? The game was so small that they fit the entire thing onto the ram after one long load time when you started up the game. The only thing not loaded was the music.
When The next ridge racer games were released, they had too much stuff to be loaded completley, thus multiple loading times.

For 2003 to work with the tag system, it would have to load all 6 characters onto the ram at once.

Re: Re: KOF 2003 port compatability question

SNKjr said:

You're kidding, right?

Click to expand...

no sir im not. The game would need multiple loading times during battle if my theory is correct.

Maybe you need to take another look at Marvel vs Capcom 2.

Anyway, like it was already said:

If the Dreamcast could handle 3rd Strike and MvsC 2, then DC/PS2 won't have any prob with KOF 2003.

rebellion1 said:

the animation in MVC2 was choppy as hell compared to snk fighters.

Click to expand...

No... no it's not. That's not even opinion, it's fact.

Spike

feh maybe its cause i been playin too much MOTW lately.

guess alot of games have bad animation in my eyes now


but i pose a question, if 6 characters can be loaded into the ram at once....then why didnt they just have one semi-long load time at the beginning of matches on KOF games on DC and ps2 instead of having a 3 second pause between each match to load the new character?

I just...I just can't stop laughing....

rebellion1 said:

the animation in MVC2 was choppy as hell compared to snk fighters.

Click to expand...

Of your many points that lead me to believe you're whacked out of your mind and haven't played many newer non-SNK fighting games, this one caught me off guard. Why?

Well, if you're analyzing the game's animation, you've obviously got past the jumble of fuzzy, hideously incongruent out-of-place looking sprites that MvC2 contains! Congratulations. I have no clue what you're trying to prove. The game animates fine, granted that you enjoy crappy games, heh heh heh.

Porting this game will be no problem as long as SNKP doesn't blow it. That'd be the only reason for a bad port. I'm sure the current generation of consoles could emulate Neo-Geo at full speed, so there's no excuse for anything less than perfect.

Lyte Edge said:

The current systems are so powerful that I don't think ANY 2D game currently out, with the possible exception of the 4P GGX game that's in arcades, would be hard to port at all.

Neo-Geo games certainly wouldn't be a problem.

Lee

Click to expand...

Guilty Gear ISUKA runs on Atomiswave hardware, which is basically like Sega's NAOMI board, in other words, it would run perfectly on PlayStation2, GameCube or Xbox.

Comon smartasses, answer my question - If all 6 characters can be loaded at once, then why do all the KOF on dc and ps2 have load times between rounds?

Programmers decide how everything is loaded, SNK wanted it that way, and it is like that. It's simple.

Rebellion 1 is right, the animation was and is very choppy in the DC version ov cvs. Guilty gear also lacks fluid animation on the PS2. GG in the arcade looks way better if memory serves.

Jeff_magnum, are you familliar with RAM and ROM? The ps2 has pittiful amounts of it so you can't load tons of texture memory (sprites are considered textures on a 3D based system such as the PS2) at one time. Fighters need to have lightening fast redraw so you can't go around swapping textures on the fly and causing the system to skip or bog down. The common solution is to cut down on animation frames. MVS/AES carts are basically just a big chunk of ROM so the game plays lightening quick.

Sure you can port any of these games to any of these systems but you have to make some compromises. KOF 2003 can absolutely be made on the PS2 it just may not be as fluid visually as the Neo Geo version.

The "power" of the newer systems lie in the processors which have nothing at all to do with the problem at hand. Also consider that 6 characters would be 50% more data (approx.) than the 4 of cvs. That's not a trivial amount.

BUT FOR ****S SAKE!

Marvel vs Capcom 2 can have Sentinel, Juggernaut, Hulk, Anakaris, Blackheart and Zangief loaded into memory at the same time. Sure, some of these guys might not have the best animation due to them being drawn in 1994, 1994, 1995, 1994, 1995 and 1996 respectively. But don't try to tell me their animation concent is lower than a regular KoF character, because they are at least twice the size and they certainly don't have less than 1/2 of the animation.





If memory is so important to a fighting game, how come Neo-Geo only has 7 megs of it? Yes, even though it has a cartridge it still has to read data into memory just like anything else, otherwise it would have NO RAM memory.

PS2 has 32 megabyte of RAM. Even if VRAM was a consideration (which it isn't for 2D fighters as VRAM is only a frame buffer which must contain all TEXTURES for any given frame and is swapped out 60 times per second) it has 4 megabytes of VRAM. Neo-Geo has 128 kilobytes IIRC. Which is by the way why it can only do low resolution graphics. If anything, KoF2003 has to swap new characters into memory from the cart during fights (since we already know that a KoF character takes up most available Neo-Geo RAM) which could be avoided on PS2 with bigger memory resources.

Besides, only one character can be swapped at any time - this limitation is probably so that the game can prepare the next character. It's not like MvC2 where all six characters are available at all time.

If a 2D game for some reason performs badly on PS2 or DC, it's because the programmers don't know what the **** they're doing. It's not PSone with 2 megs of RAM anymore (now THERE'S a console that can't do perfect Neo-Geo conversions).

Is that enough for you? Otherwise you can check out
http://www.gamegen.com/fightgen/characters/potemkin.html

That guy runs without problems on PS2 and he's easily big enough for three KoF characters as GGX runs in four times the resolution. Discussion finished.

I'm not a big techie but even I know that this question is crazy. If you're worried about the port so much then save yourself the trouble and buy a Neo.

Due to 2k2 for DC selling 12,000 in the first week not to mention 10,500 in japan in the FIRST DAY, I dont think there is a whole lot to worry about. Just a thought.

SiegfriedFM said:

BUT FOR ****S SAKE!

[snip]

Click to expand...

Just go compare Sentinel animation from MVC2 to the original X-Man CotA (arcade) and see the difference. All the big charas got some MAJOR frame cut in MvC2, which sports also 'filtered' sprite graphic in order to reduce the total data size of each sprite. You know the look 'blurry as heel', right? Even witha RGB the sprites in the games seems displayed with damn composite. And that's the trick.

Shito said:

Just go compare Sentinel animation from MVC2 to the original X-Man CotA (arcade) and see the difference. All the big charas got some MAJOR frame cut in MvC2, which sports also 'filtered' sprite graphic in order to reduce the total data size of each sprite. You know the look 'blurry as heel', right? Even witha RGB the sprites in the games seems displayed with damn composite. And that's the trick.

Click to expand...

The filtering is just how PS2, Xbox, etc draws "sprites". They're not actually sprites, but a couple of texture mapped triangles. Modern graphics hardware will automatically bilinear filter them, I don't think the Xbox and PS2 even support unfiltered textures.

If they were halfing the sprite sizes and then filtering them they would look ALOT worse than they do.


This whole discussion is crazy, the Xbox can emulate any Neogeo (excluding certain newer games that can't be hacked in, but that's down to the author not wanting to support new games that are still being sold) game as-is. Thats loading the WHOLE game into RAM (with some help from the harddrive...), there's no reason why KoF2k3 couldn't be ported to Xbox or even emulated on it.

The Saturn, with a 4MB cart, could do XvsSF/MvsSF perfectly fine with upto 4 huge sprites with great animation on screen. So why would Ps2/Xbox that are several times more powerful with several more times the amount of RAM have trouble with KoF2k3 which is lower resolution and with smaller (and probably worse animated) sprites?

Well PS2 and xbox have far enough memory...
PS2 can store half the whole game's graphics in memory, xbox could store it completely (but then there wouldn t be room for the program) and anyway can store far enough for 6 characters

DC has only 16MB ram, so lets assume 14 are free for characters, i m not talking about current display but the graphics in ram before beeing transfered to video memory (off screen character for example) then you would have 112Mb of space wich means 4.5 times less than the 512Mb of maximum graphics rom space of the neo. if the characters were to occupy the whole space (it s not the case, there are backgrounds, explosions, flashes, etc) it would mean 16Mb per character for a 32 chars roster. so... 16x6=96 .... everything would fit without having to load in between and still room. Even without memory usage optimisation (non-compressed gfx, unloading from main memory the onscreen character etc) the DC would have enough space.
I guess that s why an atomis-wave version is on its way.

Yeah i managed to be boring~ sorry :P my girlfriend allways think i m boring when talking technical.

Last time I checked the Sega Saturn ran Xmen vs. Street Fighter and Marvel vs. Street Fighter flawlessly with a 4 Meg cart.

That is 4 playable character and 2 with more color then a Neo Geo game could ever have. It also has higher quality sound and stages that are twice as large horizontally and vertically then a KOF game.

This is with an external adapter that is only 4 Megs.

I am sure that the PS2 can handle 6 characters with its 32 MB of Direct Rambus.

Come on from 4 MB (Saturn cart) to 32 MB (PS2 system ran) it is a huge difference. It can run it without a problem.

The Saturn cart is a very slow compared to the PS2's Rambus ram which means that it can asses data faster. The faster DVD drive should also is considered because it can load data faster then the Saturn’s 2 speed CD drive.

I don’t see a problem. Do you?

If plamore does it right with no slacking like the last 2 PS2 ports there should be no problem.