Old School Dungeons and Dragons

tsukaesugi · Sep 24, 2003

While surfing the net last night, I stumbled on the homepage of Dave Arneson. He was the co-creator of Dungeons and Dragons along with Gary Gygax. He's still involved in the game scene, surprisingly enough, and despite having suffered a stroke recently, he's still creating material.

The best thing about his site though, was that he has his original 'Blackmoor' supplement available for download. This book was one of the first four supplements, along with 'Greyhawk', 'Eldritch Wizardry', and 'Chainmail' to the original D&D boxed set. These four books later became the basis for the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons set of rulebooks.

http://www.castleblackmoor.com/

Steve · Sep 24, 2003

Interesting...

Speaking of D&D, I still need Tower of Doom for the Sega Saturn.....

Krev · Sep 24, 2003

Yeah...the old-timers seem to be really cool about most sorts of things. When I was an undergrad (wow...feels weird saying *that*) I was doing research for a soc class...basically the reasons as to why people, specifically youth, roleplayed. I emailed Gary, and within a day I had a reply.

We corresponded for a month or so...he helped me out immensly with my research. It was pretty cool to be able to site one of the originators of the roleplaying rage as one of my sources and contacts. And he did it out of his own good will and time...for FREE.

Anymore all developers want is money and product placement. Oh well.

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Krev said:
Yeah...the old-timers seem to be really cool about most sorts of things. When I was an undergrad (wow...feels weird saying *that*) I was doing research for a soc class...basically the reasons as to why people, specifically youth, roleplayed. I emailed Gary, and within a day I had a reply.

We corresponded for a month or so...he helped me out immensly with my research. It was pretty cool to be able to site one of the originators of the roleplaying rage as one of my sources and contacts. And he did it out of his own good will and time...for FREE.

Anymore all developers want is money and product placement. Oh well.

Wow. That's a pretty cool anecdote.

I always felt really bad for Gary Gygax (and to a lesser extent Dave Arneson) because they lost the rights to the game that they themselves created.

The new crew at TSR are doing a pretty good job I think, especially by liscensing out the d20 system... but the TSR of the 90's just sucked. Failed product line after failed product line... and really crappy artwork too.

Krev · Sep 25, 2003

What? You didn't like the pseudo-70's bell-bottomed heroes alongside big-breasted blondes in next-to-nothing?

On second thought, yeah, it was pretty much crap. It just didn't have the flair the old system had...and I'm still a little skeptical about the d20 system. It works, no doubt, but there just seems to be something lost in all the limitlessness of it...I mean, you can multi-class out the wazoo, become a level 96 monk/rogue/druid/alchemist, and then go into other dimensions via space portals and battle giant space gerbils for the fate of the entire cosmos...all in one sitting. Something just doesn't seem right there...I SLAVED over my old school characters...became ONE with them...but this...eh.

Don't get me wrong, it works well in moderation, and I'll be the first to admit I've played a bit of it lately...but there just seems to be something missing.

And I totally agree...giving Gary and the boys the shaft like that was just wrong. Although he did note most specifically when I talked to him that HE created D&D, and made sure I remembered that. Good guy...but I still sensed some bitterness to him about the whole ordeal.

I don't blame him.

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Krev said:
...and I'm still a little skeptical about the d20 system. It works, no doubt, but there just seems to be something lost in all the limitlessness of it...I mean, you can multi-class out the wazoo, become a level 96 monk/rogue/druid/alchemist, and then go into other dimensions via space portals and battle giant space gerbils for the fate of the entire cosmos...all in one sitting. Something just doesn't seem right there...I SLAVED over my old school characters...became ONE with them...but this...eh.

Really? I kinda felt the d20 system was what the second edition should have been. I loved the first edition at the time, but you have to admit that it was a bit err... arcane, and a little difficult for beginning RPG'ers to navigate. Plus, with each new expansion came more and more rules...

The second edition really wasn't that different from the first I thought: they just cleaned up the graphics and added character kits, and that was about it. The books looked dorky as hell as well, so that really helped turn me off of it.

I've only run one campaign with the d20 system (here in Japan no less!), and I felt that it's freedom allowed you to do anything you want. What I wanted to do was run a first edition style campaign, kinda back to basics if you will, and I could easily with d20 rules.

And I totally agree...giving Gary and the boys the shaft like that was just wrong. Although he did note most specifically when I talked to him that HE created D&D, and made sure I remembered that. Good guy...but I still sensed some bitterness to him about the whole ordeal.

Dave Arneson appears to be pretty bitter as well. Apparently he's angry at all the attention Gygax got!

Kid Aphex · Sep 25, 2003

nerd alert! beww bewwwww

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Kid Aphex said:
nerd alert! beww bewwwww

WHAT?! You've never played Dungeons and Dragons?

Oh man. You're missing out big time KA.

Better get yourself to your local comic book store ASAP.

Kid Aphex · Sep 25, 2003

I've got a really short attention span. While I always thought that sort of game and story telling and type were cool, I know I would never have the patience to actually partake.

How can I tell for sure?

Can't even handle a great game like FFtactics. Not the same thing, but I'm sure you know what I mean...

It's all about fighters and shooters for me; and the moment of zen that can be achieved in both during the frantic insanity of an explosive moment.

PS: galford rockz

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

I'm 32 now, when I was in Jr High School, there were no computer or video game RPG's, there was the Atari, and the Intellivision, and that was it.

If you wanted to play an RPG you had to play the real thing.

Dungeons and Dragons, Traveller, Gamma World, Gangbusters, Boot Hill, Star Frontiers, RuneQuest, Villians and Vigilantes, Car Wars, Ogre, Call of Cthulhu...

There were hundreds of games, and hundreds of game companies too. Most of them are gone now, the main reason being that people now do all their roleplaying with a computer or game console.

Sure these games (and usually the people who played them) were geeky as hell, but they were also really really fun. Especially when you played in a big group... there was a lot of teamwork involved that you just can't find on a TV or monitor.

I understand the zen you find in shooters and fighters, 90% of the time I'm playing a fighter as well on my Neo or DC, and when I play, I find myself hitting a different level of consciousness too.

You get a different kind of rush from a real live RPG though, and it's a shame that a lot of kids these days will never experience it.

Takumaji · Sep 25, 2003

*rushes to download the new stuff*

cool.

Because of several rule twists that I didn't like, I switched to AD&D when it came out, tho I still like the straight-forward and easy-goin' rulebase of the original D&D.

You're into real live RPGs, tsuka? I used to play (or better moderate) Killer a while ago, on one occasion a friend of mine even got arrested by the police because he scored a straight kill in the middle of a self-service restaurant with a water pistol that looked very real... perhaps a bit too real for a couple that watched the scene and phoned the cops... good times, man.

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Takumaji said:
*rushes to download the new stuff*

cool.

Because of several rule twists that I didn't like, I switched to AD&D when it came out, tho I still like the straight-forward and easy-goin' rulebase of the original D&D.

You're into real live RPGs, tsuka? I used to play (or better moderate) Killer a while ago, on one occasion a friend of mine even got arrested by the police because he scored a straight kill in the middle of a self-service restaurant with a water pistol that looked very real... perhaps a bit too real for a couple that watched the scene and phoned the cops... good times, man.

Sorry, I meant 'real-live' as in 'Dungeons and Dragons is live, Final Fantasy is a video-game', not 'real-live' as in 'act out'.

Is 'Killer' from Steve Jackson Games? I think I might have come across it on the Warehouse 23 site. White Wolf also had an 'act-out' kind of Vampire RPG too didn't they?

Those sound pretty intense!

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Kid Aphex said:
nerd alert! beww bewwwww

Shred · Sep 25, 2003

tsukaesugi said:
I'm 32 now, when I was in Jr High School, there were no computer or video game RPG's, there was the Atari, and the Intellivision, and that was it.

If you wanted to play an RPG you had to play the real thing.

Dungeons and Dragons, Traveller, Gamma World, Gangbusters, Boot Hill, Star Frontiers, RuneQuest, Villians and Vigilantes, Car Wars, Ogre, Call of Cthulhu...

There were hundreds of games, and hundreds of game companies too. Most of them are gone now, the main reason being that people now do all their roleplaying with a computer or game console.

Sure these games (and usually the people who played them) were geeky as hell, but they were also really really fun. Especially when you played in a big group... there was a lot of teamwork involved that you just can't find on a TV or monitor.

I understand the zen you find in shooters and fighters, 90% of the time I'm playing a fighter as well on my Neo or DC, and when I play, I find myself hitting a different level of consciousness too.

You get a different kind of rush from a real live RPG though, and it's a shame that a lot of kids these days will never experience it.

Talk about a trip down memory lane. Do you remember the one role playing game that you created characters like the Teenage Mutnant Ninja Turtles? Mutant animal role playing :buttrock:

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Shred said:
Talk about a trip down memory lane. Do you remember the one role playing game that you created characters like the Teenage Mutnant Ninja Turtles? Mutant animal role playing

There was a official Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game made by Palladium. Is that the one you were talking about? They also made a Robotech RPG using the same system...

Kid Aphex · Sep 25, 2003

Here's the cream of the crop...

http://www.mysticrealms.com/

More specificially...

http://www.mysticrealms.com/photo/

Get ready to waste hours of time wading through these gene po--- sewers.

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Kid Aphex said:
Here's the cream of the crop...

http://www.mysticrealms.com/

More specificially...

http://www.mysticrealms.com/photo/

Get ready to waste hours of time wading through these gene po--- sewers.

Heh...

25 August 2003
Important announcements from Fred Hirsch for the upcoming Inverness event:

Hi all! This is a friendly reminder about the upcoming Inverness Event. There are a few things that you need to remember:

1. The camp will not allow anyone to enter after 10:00pm. There are no exceptions. When they come to find me and ask me about it, I do not want anyone to say that I did not let you know.

2. The camp will not allow anyone to enter before 8:00am. There are again, no exceptions. See #1.

3. The camp is in bear country. If you see a bear, stay away from it. If someone from the camp asks you to help chase a bear away, Mystic Realms is not responsible for that question. You are not to help the campmasters chase bears. Period.

Shred · Sep 25, 2003

tsukaesugi said:
There was a official Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game made by Palladium. Is that the one you were talking about? They also made a Robotech RPG using the same system...

Actually after looking up Palladium's web site I think it was After The Bomb one that came out after the TMNT game. It needed the TMNT rule book but was not limited to just the TMNT. It was pretty cool creating your own creature and having adventures with them.

Bishamon · Sep 25, 2003

I miss playing RPGs. *sniff* :crying:

Takumaji · Sep 25, 2003

tsukaesugi said:
Sorry, I meant 'real-live' as in 'Dungeons and Dragons is live, Final Fantasy is a video-game', not 'real-live' as in 'act out'.

Is 'Killer' from Steve Jackson Games? I think I might have come across it on the Warehouse 23 site. White Wolf also had an 'act-out' kind of Vampire RPG too didn't they?

Those sound pretty intense!

Yeah, it's Steve Jackson's Killer, I have the 2nd edition from 1985. They had it in our comic/rpg shop one day and I bought it because it was cheap, but it wasn't until a year after before we played the first game on a camping trip with about ten ppl.

It was quite crazy, two friends and I built boobie traps out of balloons filled with flour that we put on a nylon rope between to trees, put alarm clocks into cardboard boxes and used them as time bombs, etc. Then we invented a storyline dealing with a spy organisation that has infiltrated the area. The actual game took place in a wood behind the camping grounds that were also frequented by other campers, a dozen of my friends grabbed their water pistols, paint guns, rubber knifes and padded clubs and went out to kill eachother... we played it by the rules but it was kinda weird for the other campers to see a few "bodies" laying on the ground with stickers on their shirts saying "Dead" or "Severly Wounded", or witnessing heated debates of four ppl standing in the middle of the woods and argueing about wether that explosive trap has ripped off the player's leg or not...

Killer even has a scoring and level system, but as simple and childish as it sounds, it requires insane amounts of preparation for the game master crew. Another RPG party we often played with also played Killer, but with cameras, they "shot" their victims by filming them or taking pictures. This way, it was possible for them to play the game in public areas, but my friends and I never liked the idea of sneaking around a warehouse or a shopping mall with a camera... we'd rather built our 16 tons traps using cushions with "16 t" written on it and walkmans with little speakers that went "boom!" when triggered... :loco:

I don't know most of these Vampire RPGs because frankly, I like it if the actual gameplay consists of an elaborated version of cops & robbers like Killer without really "playing a role" like a detective, criminal, etc., but I don't want to do real acting, IMO that's kind of silly. We often visited live RPGs on a castle outside of Nuremberg (Feste Rothenberg) where ppl runned around dressed as medieval knights or enchanters with long robes and huge staffs, pretending to be fantasy folks... some of them really "acted" according to their role, that's a bit too much for me, I find that kinda ridiculous because RPG/fantasy is something that takes place in your imagination, putting it into a life-like situation lets the RPG magic dissappear IMO.

Man, it's sad that most ppl I know have no time anymore for roleplaying...

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Takumaji said:
... we played it by the rules but it was kinda weird for the other campers to see a few "bodies" laying on the ground with stickers on their shirts saying "Dead" or "Severly Wounded", or witnessing heated debates of four ppl standing in the middle of the woods and argueing about wether that explosive trap has ripped off the player's leg or not... we'd rather built our 16 tons traps using cushions with "16 t" written on it and walkmans with little speakers that went "boom!" when triggered...

Tak...

I always knew you were cool...

...but I had no idea you were that cool.

That's awesome man.

Shapermc · Sep 25, 2003

Ahhh

I am actually still an active participant in RPG's. I now pretty much stick to d20 stuff. I am currently playing:

Mutants and Masterminds
Call of Cthulhu
D&D

Good stuff. I am about to start to GM a campeign from Arkham in the 1920's. I have not GMed anything in like.. 4 years. I hope I am not too rusty.

Just so that you all know, there are some places where you can DL almost every older 2nd ed D&D book in pdf format for free. I wish I could find the link, but I cannot.

Me =All kinds of nerd.

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Re: Ahhh

Shapermc said:
I am actually still an active participant in RPG's. I now pretty much stick to d20 stuff. I am currently playing:

Mutants and Masterminds
Call of Cthulhu
D&D

Good stuff. I am about to start to GM a campeign from Arkham in the 1920's. I have not GMed anything in like.. 4 years. I hope I am not too rusty.

Just so that you all know, there are some places where you can DL almost every older 2nd ed D&D book in pdf format for free. I wish I could find the link, but I cannot.

Me =All kinds of nerd.

Wow, if you can find the link, I'd really appreciate it.

How different is the d20 'Call of Cthulhu' from the Chaosium 'Call of Cthuluhu'. Are any of the same people behind it?

Shapermc · Sep 25, 2003

Re: Re: Ahhh

tsukaesugi said:
Wow, if you can find the link, I'd really appreciate it.

How different is the d20 'Call of Cthulhu' from the Chaosium 'Call of Cthuluhu'. Are any of the same people behind it?

Well, the better place to ask for that link would be HERE

The only CoC person that wrote the D20 book associated with the origional stuff was John Tynes (Autor of Delta Green). It is, and as far as John says, will be Tynes last RPG writing release. It was also written by Monte Cook (who I am a huge fan of his Eldrich D&D supplemental material). It is a great book, and if you understand D20 then I think that it is a much funner (not a word, I know) way to play CoC.

I am a huge HP Lovecraft fan, and CoC fan. I think that this version opens up to different styles of play where the "Pulp" era is much easier and more beliveable to play in. If you liked the origional I highly recomend that you pick it up.

Also, most of the origonal writers of CoC no longer write for it, or any other RPG stuff.

tsukaesugi · Sep 25, 2003

Re: Re: Re: Ahhh

Shapermc said:
Well, the better place to ask for that link would be HERE

The only CoC person that wrote the D20 book associated with the origional stuff was John Tynes (Autor of Delta Green). It is, and as far as John says, will be Tynes last RPG writing release. It was also written by Monte Cook (who I am a huge fan of his Eldrich D&D supplemental material). It is a great book, and if you understand D20 then I think that it is a much funner (not a word, I know) way to play CoC.

I am a huge HP Lovecraft fan, and CoC fan. I think that this version opens up to different styles of play where the "Pulp" era is much easier and more beliveable to play in. If you liked the origional I highly recomend that you pick it up.

Also, most of the origonal writers of CoC no longer write for it, or any other RPG stuff.

Link bookmarked. Thanks man!

Old School Dungeons and Dragons

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