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acem77
09-17-2003, 09:39 AM
why do people get so mad about conversions?
1st you have to buy a mvs game (snk got there money)
2nd you have to buy a aes game (snk got there money)
3rd some put the mvs guts in the aes cart.(they get there money for the mod)
i had metal slug 1 mvs added to my ss2 aes cart.
both games still work great just flip a switch to play the game you want.
nobody losses snk sold 2 items.
the modder made some cash.
i have 2 games i really want. :buttrock:

buster_broon
09-17-2003, 10:25 AM
from the immortal words of 1 member


you are a cart killer

us AES owners love that fatal fury 3 and king of fighters 95 will be EEEEEEERRRRR+ soon

Even sengoku 3 for later stuff

even the MVS owners must love than Metal Slug is super dooper rare

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 01:04 PM
I'm with Buster, It's hard enough to find carts in good condition to play. If you want some hacked piece of shit, just burn a ROM, and BUY THE MVS. then you'll own the software, and you can have your BOOT to look pretty and sit on your shelf.

Conversions aren't official. To think they are is absurd. You're playing the equivilent of a BOOT, while ruining a good cart in the process.

get a phantom 1! PLEASE!

Amano Jacu
09-17-2003, 01:27 PM
Conversions were an ancient ritual performed by a tribe of primitive, wild AES fanatics. Some say they are still alive, hiding somewhere and offering carts as a sacrifice to the Neo Gods.

Seriously, there are ways enough to be able to play a MVS games at home, like the phantom (although you still need to sac a cart to make one), superguns or cabs. So conversions are no longer needed. I never liked that idea anyway.

By the way, I didn't know you could have 2 games in the same cart, I almost find it unbelievable. :spock:

acem77
09-17-2003, 02:02 PM
i still dont see what is so wrong. its no diff than any mods done on an aes system. most of those mods put new holes in the system.
nothing is bootleg. they are all real parts snk made money from. yes a mvs cart is lost but a aes cart is gained.
i did not give up any 1 game. they still both work. what is so hard to believe about that?
there is a switch on top of the aes/ss2 cart to let me select the game i want to play.
it is real what proof do you need?

i would not convert a cart again. back in the day maybe 4+ years ago there was no phantom that i knew of.
i looked and called every where. nobody knew what ebay was. i had pen pals from jap look for me. i could not find the aes ver of metal slug 1.
i paid $200 for metal slug $140 for ss2 and $100 to have the conversion done. :P

now i have a 1 slot mvs jamma board and a super nova i bought about 2 years ago.

i do believe if i pay for some thing it is my right to do with it as i wish.
even if i wanted to paint the cart pretty colors or use it as fuel in a fire.

kyo geo
09-17-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Amano Jacu
Conversions were an ancient ritual performed by a tribe of primitive, wild AES fanatics. Some say they are still alive, hiding somewhere and offering carts as a sacrifice to the Neo Gods.

Seriously, there are ways enough to be able to play a MVS games at home, like the phantom (although you still need to sac a cart to make one), superguns or cabs. So conversions are no longer needed. I never liked that idea anyway.

By the way, I didn't know you could have 2 games in the same cart, I almost find it unbelievable. :spock:

Jesus Amano, you truly are stupid. Primitive? Can you do a conversion? If you cant, your chatting rubbish. If you can, your as bad as the people you describe. Hiding? I do conversions and make no attempt to hide this from others.

Didnt know or believe that you can get 2 games on one cart? This just further shows your ignorance. I guess the neo bomberman and panic bomber cart that I saw at Clear Papers house last month was a figmant of my imagination, eh?

I find it a joke that a romz whore like yourself can put down people who do conversions. Thats just ridiculous.:oh_no:

Conversions are no longer needed? What you mean is that mvs carts are necessarily wanted. I dont want mvs games in my collection, but I do want shock troopers next to my second squad.

You have really written some pompous, conceited posts in the past and theres no way I could look at this and think 'its that idiot amano again' and just go on to another topic, hopeful that your ignorance hadnt already graced it.

For christs sake, you even said that they shouldve closed the door to everyone after they reached 2000 members, when you only a few short yourself! Does this mean the last 5000 odd members are idiots? Clearly not, otherwise I wouldnt be telling you a few home truths right now....

Please, unless you actually know what youre talking about, dont bother posting rubbish for those less informed to swallow.

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by kyo geo
Jesus Amano, you truly are stupid. Primitive? Can you do a conversion? If you cant, your chatting rubbish. If you can, your as bad as the people you describe. Hiding? I do conversions and make no attempt to hide this from others.

Didnt know or believe that you can get 2 games on one cart? This just further shows your ignorance. I guess the neo bomberman and panic bomber cart that I saw at Clear Papers house last month was a figmant of my imagination, eh?

I find it a joke that a romz whore like yourself can put down people who do conversions. Thats just ridiculous.:oh_no:

Conversions are no longer needed? What you mean is that mvs carts are necessarily wanted. I dont want mvs games in my collection, but I do want shock troopers next to my second squad.

You have really written some pompous, conceited posts in the past and theres no way I could look at this and think 'its that idiot amano again' and just go on to another topic, hopeful that your ignorance hadnt already graced it.

For christs sake, you even said that they shouldve closed the door to everyone after they reached 2000 members, when you only a few short yourself! Does this mean the last 5000 odd members are idiots? Clearly not, otherwise I wouldnt be telling you a few home truths right now....

Please, unless you actually know what youre talking about, dont bother posting rubbish for those less informed to swallow.

I hate to jump into a fight that's not mine, but wasn't Amano just joking?

I think the big problem is what Buster said...basically conversions are the reason I don't own a Metal Slug MVS. It just makes it harder for me to get the things I want, when there's really no reason for it.

buster_broon
09-17-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by m_bish0p
I hate to jump into a fight that's not mine, but wasn't Amano just joking?

I think the big problem is what Buster said...basically conversions are the reason I don't own a Metal Slug MVS. It just makes it harder for me to get the things I want, when there's really no reason for it.

btw i was being sarcastic

i own 15 conversions including a lovely metal slug with manual

i like them, they give me access to otherwise un-obtainable games

and i dont want a phantom - they sound teh shit and at least i know that my buddy who does the conversions is getting real and not bootleg carts - so they are 100percent authentic conversions

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by buster_broon
btw i was being sarcastic

i own 15 conversions including a lovely metal slug with manual

i like them, they give me access to otherwise un-obtainable games

and i dont want a phantom - they sound teh shit and at least i know that my buddy who does the conversions is getting real and not bootleg carts - so they are 100percent authentic conversions

yeah, that's why I was 'crying' in the other thread where we were talking about this. (I forgot they were two separate threads)I know you're into conversions, but the problem is still there. If MVS Metal Slugs weren't being converted, I might be able to get one for less than 70$.

Robert
09-17-2003, 03:29 PM
Always the same thread over and over. Same arguments and same answers. To say something fresh for this kind of subject I will say that conversions are legit if they are made by Playmore.

kyo geo
09-17-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by m_bish0p
I'm with Buster, It's hard enough to find carts in good condition to play. If you want some hacked piece of shit, just burn a ROM, and BUY THE MVS. then you'll own the software, and you can have your BOOT to look pretty and sit on your shelf.

Conversions aren't official. To think they are is absurd. You're playing the equivilent of a BOOT, while ruining a good cart in the process.

get a phantom 1! PLEASE!

Due to the fact that buster has bought and owns conversions (around 10 he said, unless he won that euro overtop;) , in which case hes probably in double figures now for sure), i really dont think hes making the point you think youre backing up.

I really thought one of my last posts clarified conversions properly, I guess not:mad: . They are not boots for gods sake! Theyre called conversions because thats what they are! A boot is a cart with burnt roms and sometimes home made circuit boards! Crouching tiger, some puzzle boobles, the slug 4 and kof 2002 I saw the other day, those are boots. Conversions are not boots, 'to think they are is absurd'.

Only are fool would think a conversion is official (eh, dion 'english shock 2' dakis?), but theyre still made from authentic snk parts, something you cant deny. If you have a problem with the art work, tough. Its fan art. Most covers dont look the same on a lot of games with the same title (ive lost track of the amount of slug inserts ive seen).

Dont be so sure about destroying carts- I happy to say ive restored almost 40 aes carts to the mvs format, so NO GAME HAS BEEN LOST OR DESTROYED. A true neo lover will perform this whenever possible, as Big Bruno demonstrated by restoring his savage reign cart to mvs after his Kizuna conversion.

You can hate conversions all you want, but when I think of the AES and MVS players ive made happy in one form or another, I get a warm feeling in my heart.

Please understand, a lot of people feel threatened by them, and I understand this, hence my suggestion to produce a guide to identifying them.

Sorry, I wont be buying a phantom1 as the kof 99 chips went to waste and !arcade! sell boots(proper boots, I might add) , so none of my cash will be going into his products. Sorry Ray.

buster_broon
09-17-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by m_bish0p
I know you're into conversions, but the problem is still there. If MVS Metal Slugs weren't being converted, I might be able to get one for less than 70$.

yeah the thing is i am not into conversions

if the game was available at a decent price i would get it - the real mccoy

but paying over 2000usd for 1 game - my wife would cut my balls off, so for 250usd i can get a conversion of an otherwise game i would never have owned

out of the 15 conversions i have, 5 are available on the home format but these games are either super expensive or i just dont rate them to spend £300+ on them

my top 3 most expensive games are (this is where you see the tight arse scotsman)

3/ strikers 1945plus = $360
2/ METAL SLUG X = $450
1/ Prehistoric isle 2 = $460

so out of the 3 most expensive games i own - 2 are conversions, but they look absolutely amazing

why dont you buy a cheap mvs game like a bare world heroes and buy an aes metal slug and convert it to mvs - i wonder who many people will be upset then :tickled: :tickled: :tickled:

leepantalone
09-17-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by m_bish0p
I hate to jump into a fight that's not mine, but wasn't Amano just joking?

I think the big problem is what Buster said...basically conversions are the reason I don't own a Metal Slug MVS. It just makes it harder for me to get the things I want, when there's really no reason for it.

Hey Bishop, when are you going to invite us over so we can play in your arcade?? Or maybe you should eliminate your sig, because you are making me jealous!!!

Michael Yagami
09-17-2003, 04:27 PM
Ok, here's why I'm anti-conversion: 1) you have to butcher a home cart (usually Fatal Fury 3 or Sam Sho 3, two of the best fighters on the Neo) and 2) you have to butcher an MVS cart. The more "Conversions" made the harder it is to find AES versions of games like FF 3, Sam Sho 3, KOF '95 and so on. So the price for the remaining AES carts will eventually go up and the conversions will remain worthless.

When it comes down to it a conversion is nothing more than a fan made boot. Hell, I'll bet my entire Neo collection that over half of the people who bitch about Japhei selling boots own "converted" carts, and that equals pot-kettle-black.

I can never understand why a Neo collector would want a "conversion" cart when its not an actual AES cart. The insert is usually homebrew as is the manual and the cart sticker. Its a high priced boot, nothing more.

CONVERSION = BOOT AND YOU KNOW IT.

Mike

kyo geo
09-17-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Michael Yagami
Ok, here's why I'm anti-conversion: 1) you have to butcher a home cart (usually Fatal Fury 3 or Sam Sho 3, two of the best fighters on the Neo) and 2) you have to butcher an MVS cart. The more "Conversions" made the harder it is to find AES versions of games like FF 3, Sam Sho 3, KOF '95 and so on. So the price for the remaining AES carts will eventually go up and the conversions will remain worthless.

When it comes down to it a conversion is nothing more than a fan made boot. Hell, I'll bet my entire Neo collection that over half of the people who bitch about Japhei selling boots own "converted" carts, and that equals pot-kettle-black.

I can never understand why a Neo collector would want a "conversion" cart when its not an actual AES cart. The insert is usually homebrew as is the manual and the cart sticker. Its a high priced boot, nothing more.

CONVERSION = BOOT AND YOU KNOW IT.

Mike


Dont be silly. Its not a boot, and as for legalities, I really hope that no one in the US owns blazing or pulstar, as it clearly states on the back that it is intended for sale and use in japan only, but people overlook this for the sake of their own collections.

So I suppose we can say that owning the mvs versions are the only way people outside of japan should be allowed to play those titles?

Fair point about cart rarity increasing, but I really dont think that it will ever get to a stage where there is a shortage of games like fatal fury 3 or sam 2.

People who buy conversions usually know thats what theyre getting, I cant remember the last time some one accused another of selling them a conversion unknowingly, Japhei sold boots knowingly not informing the buyer, so again, lets not confuse the issue. Like I always say, people should own originals of existing AES carts, such as slug and big tournament golf (I can safely say I do).

If conversions are worthless, why do they sometimes sell for more than the price of a new release. Because there is a market and a demand for them, so to say they are worthless really is stupid.

The insert, sticker and manual are ALWAYS home brew, usually people know this.

Ive seen and read your posts mike, you make a valid point about the death of home carts even though I dont agree, I know you and your opinion are well respected, but to say a conversion is a boot and state that you cant understand why an AES collector would want an unreleased (on the AES) title really is quite narrow minded.

People need to understand, conversions are not seen the same way as boots by everyone, otherwise their would be no demand or market. High profile collectors are happy to have conversions of certain games in their collection, thats just the way it is.

All my sac carts come from japan, and I see it better to use them in this manor and restore the remains to mvs rather than let them stay on the shelves, soaking up the sun and therefore being considered worthless by collectors anyway.

I DO UNDERSTAND what youre trying to say, I know conversions are not official, I just think your using the term 'boot' in an irrelevant manor.

Mark

Liquid Snake
09-17-2003, 05:23 PM
zzZZZZZZZZZZZzzz

Same old topic ......same old answer....same old argument....

zzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz:confused:

Amano Jacu
09-17-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by kyo geo
Jesus Amano, you truly are stupid. Primitive? Can you do a conversion? If you cant, your chatting rubbish. If you can, your as bad as the people you describe. Hiding? I do conversions and make no attempt to hide this from others.

Didnt know or believe that you can get 2 games on one cart? This just further shows your ignorance. I guess the neo bomberman and panic bomber cart that I saw at Clear Papers house last month was a figmant of my imagination, eh?

I find it a joke that a romz whore like yourself can put down people who do conversions. Thats just ridiculous.:oh_no:

Conversions are no longer needed? What you mean is that mvs carts are necessarily wanted. I dont want mvs games in my collection, but I do want shock troopers next to my second squad.

You have really written some pompous, conceited posts in the past and theres no way I could look at this and think 'its that idiot amano again' and just go on to another topic, hopeful that your ignorance hadnt already graced it.

For christs sake, you even said that they shouldve closed the door to everyone after they reached 2000 members, when you only a few short yourself! Does this mean the last 5000 odd members are idiots? Clearly not, otherwise I wouldnt be telling you a few home truths right now....

Please, unless you actually know what youre talking about, dont bother posting rubbish for those less informed to swallow.

God, the amount of crap you posted is so big I don't even know where to start....:oh_no: Anyway I won't go down to your level.

First of all, there's something called "irony" and "reading between lines", and it looks like you don't get it, so it's your problem, not mine. :shame:

As you know, conversions are a taboo topic in this boards since SNKP asked Shawn to do so. That's why I like to make this little joke each time this thread appears (which is around once a month). This is also the reason why topics asking about conversion in the Tech forum are closed (you don't need to "hide", it's your bussiness, just don't use the boards for this). When I say "ancient", I mean that conversions used to be made some years ago (and in the videogame scene, some years ago are ancient times) as there weren't that many alternatives to playing MVS games at home, but now it's not the case. So the amount of conversion made has dropped a bit over time.

Sorry, but I've never owned an AES nor seen a conversion, so forgive my ignorance about this 2 games in the same cart. And by the way, it's your problem if you don't like MVS carts sitting next to your precious AES ones, I would rather do that than having a bastardized cart, even if it's made of original parts. And no, I can't do a conversion, mostly because I have ABSOLUTELY no need for one. I'm pretty sure I can do around a gazillion things you can't, but I don't brag about it. I think I am a pretty useful member in the Tech Support forum, I've helped as much as I can other members with trouble about things I know a bit of. And of course there are other things you do better than me.

And now board history lesson for you. The idea of closing the doors to new members was brought by Tarma some time ago, and I OPPOSED that idea in that thread, look for it if you want. Then Tarma posted in another stupid thread made by a Noob, saying that we should have closed doors. Tarma's number is a bit more than 2000 and mine is a bit less than 2000, that's why I made a (oh the horror, a joke) and said "yeah, cut it at exactly 2000" as it was a nice number and it left me in and him out, so I "counterattacked" his closing doors idea. Obviously I had no intention to have this seriously done.

I suggest you that the next time you see a post by me you don't agree with (or don't understand the joke), just reply explaining your point of view, and we'll discuss politely. That's all.

Have a nice day.

Michael Yagami
09-17-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by kyo geo
Dont be silly. Its not a boot, and as for legalities, I really hope that no one in the US owns blazing or pulstar, as it clearly states on the back that it is intended for sale and use in japan only, but people overlook this for the sake of their own collections.

So I suppose we can say that owning the mvs versions are the only way people outside of japan should be allowed to play those titles?

Fair point about cart rarity increasing, but I really dont think that it will ever get to a stage where there is a shortage of games like fatal fury 3 or sam 2.

People who buy conversions usually know thats what theyre getting, I cant remember the last time some one accused another of selling them a conversion unknowingly, Japhei sold boots knowingly not informing the buyer, so again, lets not confuse the issue. Like I always say, people should own originals of existing AES carts, such as slug and big tournament golf (I can safely say I do).

If conversions are worthless, why do they sometimes sell for more than the price of a new release. Because there is a market and a demand for them, so to say they are worthless really is stupid.

The insert, sticker and manual are ALWAYS home brew, usually people know this.

Ive seen and read your posts mike, you make a valid point about the death of home carts even though I dont agree, I know you and your opinion are well respected, but to say a conversion is a boot and state that you cant understand why an AES collector would want an unreleased (on the AES) title really is quite narrow minded.

People need to understand, conversions are not seen the same way as boots by everyone, otherwise their would be no demand or market. High profile collectors are happy to have conversions of certain games in their collection, thats just the way it is.

All my sac carts come from japan, and I see it better to use them in this manor and restore the remains to mvs rather than let them stay on the shelves, soaking up the sun and therefore being considered worthless by collectors anyway.

I DO UNDERSTAND what youre trying to say, I know conversions are not official, I just think your using the term 'boot' in an irrelevant manor.

Mark

Mark, you make some very good points, but lets look at what the work Bootleg actually means.

boot·leg
v. boot·legged, boot·leg·ging, boot·legs
v. tr.
To make, sell, or transport (alcoholic liquor) for sale illegally.
To produce, distribute, or sell without permission or illegally: a clandestine outfit that bootlegs compact discs and tapes.

Now, unless all the converted carts have been made with the permission of SNK/Playmore and SNK/Playmore has been paid for said cart (not the sac carts required to make the conversion, but the converted cart itself) converted carts are in fact bootlegs.

Personal opinions aside, making and selling converted carts is just as illegal as Japhei selling boots, NGF selling altered Neo items and people downloading and playing roms in the eyes of the law.

Personally, I'd like to see cart conversion die out simply because I don't want the AES versions of FF3 and SS3 going sky high because of people gutting them. :D

Mike

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by leepantalone
Hey Bishop, when are you going to invite us over so we can play in your arcade?? Or maybe you should eliminate your sig, because you are making me jealous!!!

Buster: You own them, so you're 'into' it. I understand your argument, and I'm not trying to bust your balls. I would rather people didn't make things I want to buy more rare, that's all. It's not like we can't still be friends. :glee:

Kyo: I would rather someone bought the MVS version, and then played a ROM, rather than destroy official SNK carts. If you can convert them without any sacrifice, then you win...I have no argument. But that sort of conversion is rather rare.

Leepantalone: I've tried to arrange a get together, as I'm right in the middle of PA, and people from all surrounding states would have about the same drive. The problem with that is that NO ONE wanted to drive that far.

If people are REALLY interested, we could easily arrange a get-together at my place. I've got seven cabs, and one 25" TV. I've never seen or played an AES, so I'd appreciate it if someone wanted to bring one.

Evil Wasabi
09-17-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by kyo geo
Conversions are no longer needed? What you mean is that mvs carts are necessarily wanted. I dont want mvs games in my collection, but I do want shock troopers next to my second squad.


I'm not going to be an ass about this but, what's wrong with playing Shock Troops in its original form? Plus you took it upon yourself to get the game in the format you wanted just as many users are doing to get SvCC on the cart format they want. Conversions may be made with real parts but its no different than a boot. Metal Slug MVS too expensive when it debuted at 2k? Buy the boot for 1k. Metal Slug home cart too expensive at 2k? Buy a conversion for 300 bucks

kyo geo
09-17-2003, 05:52 PM
Amano- I guess your humour doesnt come across to a fellow spaniard very well.

Bishop- Give me your bedroom.

Mike- Cheers for the refresher of what boot leg means (we had to define it in english at school whilst reading 'the great gatsby'), and im glad you see my point.

I cant except the term bootlegging as be aplicable to conversions anymore than a lot of people that smoke cannabis would except being reffered to as drug abusers, but you do make a good point. I guess theres no one whos opinion is right or wrong on this, I guess maybe in if the fatal 3s or 95s ever run low, I will have to eat humble pie.:crying:

abdul
09-17-2003, 05:59 PM
i dont know, they are just fake aes games?

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by kyo geo
Amano- I guess your humour doesnt come across to a fellow spaniard very well.

Bishop- Give me your bedroom.

Mike- Cheers for the refresher of what boot leg means (we had to define it in english at school whilst reading 'the great gatsby'), and im glad you see my point.

I cant except the term bootlegging as be aplicable to conversions anymore than a lot of people that smoke cannabis would except being reffered to as drug abusers, but you do make a good point. I guess theres no one whos opinion is right or wrong on this, I guess maybe in if the fatal 3s or 95s ever run low, I will have to eat humble pie.:crying:

That's not my bedroom. The floor plans say it's a 'dining' room. Apparently a hold over from a more simple time, before everyone ate in front on thier Televisions.

So, thanks to these ancient dining rituals, every appartment and house I look at has a room just for my arcade. :buttrock:

metallizer
09-17-2003, 06:13 PM
SNK have done conversions, just look here (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17944) .

Yes, SNK actually killed a WH2 MVS cart and an AOF MVS cart to do a PDP MVS cart.

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by metallizer
SNK has done conversions, just look http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17944 (here) .

Yes, SNK actually killed a WH2 MVS cart and a AOF MVS cart to do PDP MVS cart.

SNKP asked Shawn to help them stop conversions. They release the home carts for a reason, and they don't like people just going off and making whatever they want.

Personally, I think it's your right. I think if you buy something, you should be able to modify it any way you please, and my argument against Conversions isn't based on that at all.

But, Since SNKP has come right out and tried to stop Conversions, I think you're on shakey ground trying to say that the fact that they did it makes it somehow okay.

metallizer
09-17-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by m_bish0p
SNKP asked Shawn to help them stop conversions. They release the home carts for a reason, and they don't like people just going off and making whatever they want.

Personally, I think it's your right. I think if you buy something, you should be able to modify it any way you please, and my argument against Conversions isn't based on that at all.

But, Since SNKP has come right out and tried to stop Conversions, I think you're on shakey ground trying to say that the fact that they did it makes it somehow okay.


When Shawn was trying to be the official US NGH distributor, SNK asked Shawn to remove all the conversion information displayed in this HP with the argument that the "official" distributor couldn´t encourage conversions.

I think SNK did right asking Shawn to remove the conversion information, it would be like Nintendo USA posting info in their HP about how to mod a GC to play imports.

kyo geo
09-17-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by metallizer
SNK have done conversions, just look here (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17944) .

Yes, SNK actually killed a WH2 MVS cart and an AOF MVS cart to do a PDP MVS cart.

Im rapidly falling in love with you....

Amano Jacu
09-17-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by metallizer
SNK have done conversions, just look here (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17944) .

Yes, SNK actually killed a WH2 MVS cart and an AOF MVS cart to do a PDP MVS cart.

Sorry, but SNK owns the copyright so they can do it. People who do this at home doesn't, and here's the difference. SNK used spare parts from an overproduced product that never reached the market, see this as recycling.

Personally, I agree that as long as you use original parts you are not doing anything that wrong, and the comparision with buying import software is quite good. I just don't like the process, and that's all, and quite some people here is agreeing. But do as you want, I don't care anyway.

Plisken
09-17-2003, 06:47 PM
HEY! DO WHAT YOU WANT

BUT DON'T DO IT AROUND ME

Tarma
09-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Amano Jacu


And now board history lesson for you. The idea of closing the doors to new members was brought by Tarma some time ago, and I OPPOSED that idea in that thread, look for it if you want. Then Tarma posted in another stupid thread made by a Noob, saying that we should have closed doors. Tarma's number is a bit more than 2000 and mine is a bit less than 2000, that's why I made a (oh the horror, a joke) and said "yeah, cut it at exactly 2000" as it was a nice number and it left me in and him out, so I "counterattacked" his closing doors idea. Obviously I had no intention to have this seriously done.

I

It was merely a suggestion to cut the tollerance of trolls. As it is things have improved a lot since then. T'was an extereme suggestion I know, but quality over quantity is my motto :)

Anyway...

Conversions are just a total grey area. Yes, many of them use genuine 'parts' but it is still not an official AES release, and therefore should never be passed off as one.
The term 'bootleg' has always refered to a fake or illeagal copy - ie a copy that does not contain genuine parts.
So, a conversion of say, Zupapa! that contains eproms is a bootleg, but a conversion that does not is merely that - a conversion; an unoffical AES cartridge.

However, I would class a conversion of an offically released AES title as a bootleg because it is a copy of something that actually exists.
AES releases of Prehistoric Isle 2, Zupapa!, Money Puzzle Exchanger etc. do not exist in any offical form. So, they can only be classed as mvs conversions.

I appreciate why people buy bootleg AEs titles, and really the blame for a market being created, can only lie with those who pushed the price up beyond unreasonable levels. Those people would probably argue though that demand outstripped supply and therefore the games went to the highest bidder.
It is something of a vicious cirlce. In general I do not advocate the creations of bootleg conversions of offically released titles.

As for the unreleased games. the mvs ONLY titles, until such time as offical releases are manufactured (never likely), conversions of these games are an excellent way for the AES owner to enjoy SNK product. Yes, there is the Phantom 1, but I'm not entirely convinced it would be a worthwhile investment, and I've read too many complaints about its design to make me feel comfortable buying one. I don't fancy knackering my AES, or me for the sake of an mvs cart.

There are those that argue that the phantom 1 is also illeagal because mvs carts are not for home use, so thererfore an AES conversion of an mvs only title would only seem logical, because you're transfering the game to homeformat.

It is a shame that you lose a game to create a game in this process, but I would rather have a conversion using genuine SNK parts than one made up of eprom burns.

Yes, I do own a handful of conversions of unreleased mvs games, but no bootleg conversions of offical AES releases.

In short:

AES conversions of mvs only titles = yes.

AES conversions of titles offically released in AES format = no.

m_bish0p
09-17-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by metallizer
When Shawn was trying to be the official US NGH distributor, SNK asked Shawn to remove all the conversion information displayed in this HP with the argument that the "official" distributor couldn´t encourage conversions.

If think SNK did right asking Shawn to remove the conversion information, it would be like Nintendo USA posting info in their HP about how to mod a GC to play imports.

And??

You've just further proven my point. SNKP doesn't want you to do it. I agree that it's for 'Stupid business' reasons, but that's THIER business.

The bottom line is that, if SNKP wanted you to have a Metal Slug AES Cart, they would make another run of them.

Maybe it's the conversions that have stopped them from doing a re-release? I know that's the weakest argument I've ever made, but it's possible.

The point is that they want people to play the games *AS THEY ARE RELEASED* so that they can control the market.

Personally, I think it just encourages people to do conversions and ROMZ.

Amano Jacu
09-17-2003, 07:10 PM
Very good points, Tarma, but still, I don't agree with the idea of "conversions of MVS-only titles are good, conversions of AES released games aren't".

So what? If you want to have a Metal Slug AES, you need to start looking for one and pay around 2000$ for it, and if you don't have (or don't want to spend) that much money) and get a conversion you are cheap? And is it OK to convert a Shock Troopers just because you can't have an original one, not even for 10000$?

As I said, there are the same ways in both cases to have it in original MVS form, so, at least for me, they are the same. I know most people doesn't agree with me on this.

And by the way, if you look at it this way, the MVS games were never intended for use at home, not through an AES or supergu n or private cab or whatever, so under this situation it would be the same to convert the cart than playing it at home unconverted.

As we said this is a gray area open to many intepretations. I agree that a conversion made with original parts is clear gray, and one with EEPROMS is very dark. But I don't see the difference between converting a Shock Troopers and a Metal Slug.

bulletnyourass
09-17-2003, 08:14 PM
This statement is not made to choose either side. I'm wondering why people are complaining. The bottom line is......these games were already PURCHASED. There are no warranties for a Fatal Fury 3 or Sam Sho 3 as they probably originally had 90 day warranties to begin with. There will never be any solidarity on this subject. The ones that want conversions...buy them. The ones that don't want conversions....don't buy them. Here is my question to you all. Remember, this is just a question.

Since there are only 3 "known" copies of Euro Kizuna Encounter, how does everyone gain a copy? Do we all take turns coming up with $11,000 to buy the game so that we can play, or do we all buy a Neo Cabinet and then try to hunt down a Kizuna MVS Kit to play? If SNKP truly wants to stop the bootlegging...re-release Metal Slug, Ultimate 11,Kizuna Encounter. Everyone of us that support the Homecart System would be willing to spend $335 for a NEW homecart release...especially considering you spend damn near that much...if not more for a conversion that doesn't include a manual.

I don't know about alot of you...I don't care if my cart is 1st run or 2nd run or last run. A complete collection is just that.....a complete collection. The only people who wouldn't want this to happen are the people who currently own these Uber-Rare Expensive Carts. SNKP can only stand to profit from this. Who wouldn't want to get these 3 games to complete their collection at the current New Home Cart price if they were official releases?

Remember, I am not choosing either sides argument. I'm just saying....Playmore might want to consider this as an option...even if they only released 150 units of each title.

Just a thought!

Bring forth the FLAMES!!!!

Phillip

bulletnyourass
09-17-2003, 08:22 PM
Hypothetically,

If SNKP were to re-release these Euro titles. Could you see the Ebay descriptions for these titles:

EURO KIZUNA ENCOUNTER AES

This is the Mona Lisa Rare 1ST "ORIGINAL" release of this game. Do not confuse this with the inferior duplicate run. Act now as there are only 3 KNOWN 1st run copies. If you use "BUY IT NOW" ($12,500.00), I will give you FREE Overnight Insured Shipping! Remember there are only 3 KNOWN 1ST RUN copies. Act now as you never know when the next ORIGINAL one will be sold!!!!!


Phillip

You all know that this would happen....and that's NO BULLSHIT LIE!!!!!!

Tarma
09-18-2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by Amano Jacu
Very good points, Tarma, but still, I don't agree with the idea of "conversions of MVS-only titles are good, conversions of AES released games aren't".

So what? If you want to have a Metal Slug AES, you need to start looking for one and pay around 2000$ for it, and if you don't have (or don't want to spend that much money) and get a conversion you are cheap?

However, a Shock Troopers is OK because you can't have an original one, not even for 10000$.

As I said, there are the same ways in both cases to have it in original MVS form, so, at least for me, they are the same. I know most people doesn't agree with me on this.

And by the way, if you look at it this way, the MVS games were never intended for use at home, not through an AES or supergu n or private cab or whatever, so under this situation it would be the same to convert the cart than playing it at home unconverted.

As we said this is a gray area open to many intepretations. I agree that a conversion made with original parts is clear gray, and one with EEPROMS is very dark. But I don't see the difference between converting a Shock Troopers and a Metal Slug.

I thoroughly respect your opinion and you illustrate some good points too :)

Yes, there is huge amount of varying interpretation over conversions, and it would be nice if it was all a bit more clear cut.

I would not say that I think it's 'good' to sac AES carts for mvs conversions, but it is a means to and end, and a convienence more than anything else as some titles I want are not available on AES (officailly) nor on Neo CD.

On eBay now we're seeing bootlegs are games that come under the $500 bracket such as MS2 and X, and Pulstar. Even games like Overtop and TSS are being bootlegged and can be easily found way under $1,000.

A key problem I suppose is that a lot of people are trying to get into AES gaming who cannot really afford to do so because of the high value of many of the better and more recent releases. These people create a demand for bootlegs because they cannot afford the real McCoy. I don't wish to sound elitest or like a snob, but AES has NEVER EVER been a cheap gaming platform, and these people should really realise this and take it into account before buying the console.

I suppose I'll just stick with my neutral viewpoint for the time being.

Takumaji
09-18-2003, 05:32 AM
Personally, I don't like conversions. First of all, I pity every cart that has to be sac'ced in the process; countless FF3's have been cracked open and turned into Slug 1's and stuff like that, just because some ppl rather invest their money in a shiny homecart than a small MVS home setup or a Phantom where they could play all the MVS-exclusive titles and the games that are expensive on homecart for about the same price they'd pay for a very good conversion.

What's more, more often than not good conversions appear on various selling channels over the time without being advertised as such; remember the Kyokugen Slug 1 case? It wasn't even a particularly good conversion, but it was enough to fool the buyer into thinking he'd bid on the real thing. Shit like that wouldn't happen if there weren't so many people that only want to have another nice spine on their shelf.

I know that there are ppl that have their ethics when dealing with conversions, but the "gray area" Tarma mentioned is bigger than most if you would think... ...have you checked your Slug 1 lately? ;)

NeoGoaT
09-18-2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by acem77
i had metal slug 1 mvs added to my ss2 aes cart.
both games still work great just flip a switch to play the game you want.



Originally posted by acem77
there is a switch on top of the aes/ss2 cart to let me select the game i want to play.

It's before noon here so my brain isn't fully alert yet, maybe I'm reading this wrong. You have SS2 and MS1 in a single AES cart with a switch that lets you select the game? Never heard of such a thing and I can't imagine how it could be done with original MVS parts, can anyone elaborate?

Amano Jacu
09-18-2003, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by NeoGoaT
It's before noon here so my brain isn't fully alert yet, maybe I'm reading this wrong. You have SS2 and MS1 in a single AES cart with a switch that lets you select the game? Never heard of such a thing and I can't imagine how it could be done with original MVS parts, can anyone elaborate?

Oh well, I was as surprised as you, and I got this answer from Kyo Geo:


Didnt know or believe that you can get 2 games on one cart? This just further shows your ignorance. I guess the neo bomberman and panic bomber cart that I saw at Clear Papers house last month was a figmant of my imagination, eh?

I just don't know how that works, as I'm proud to say I've never dealt with conversions.

NeoGoaT
09-18-2003, 06:51 AM
I'm not anti-conversion nor do I doubt that two games could be stuffed into one home cart, just curious about all aspects of Neo tech. Is this dual game conversion malarky documented anywhere on the net or could anyone give a quick description of the method involved. I'd imagine it must get pretty messy in there if original parts are used, two sets of chips and a few feet of wire at least.

Herzog Drei
09-18-2003, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by Robert
Always the same thread over and over. Same arguments and same answers. To say something fresh for this kind of subject I will say that conversions are legit if they are made by Playmore.

IF Playmore (or SNK) would do that,they wouldn't be conversions anymore-just plain simple original AES-carts.;)

I wondered if they really 'converted' MVS into AES (or the other way round) ...but we wouldn't know anyway.:smirk:

Tiptonium
09-18-2003, 09:04 AM
I knew someone that had a conversion van years ago. That thing got a lot of play time. ;)


http://www.tiptonium.com/stuff/kittycart.jpg

buster_broon
09-18-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by m_bish0p
It's not like we can't still be friends. :glee:


yeah good stuff

great days ;) :lol:

acem77
09-18-2003, 11:06 AM
bottom line is a conversion is not illegal.
moding a games system
to play imports, ,
adding power leds, stereo mods ,
display svideo graphics,
moding the case
is not illegal.
it is just not supported by snk.
they don't want you changing a dang thing.
no company wants you to.
the most they can do to try and stop you is to terminate your warranty.
it is your own free will to do what you want with it.
just like cars you can mix up any parts you want as long as it is not made from hot parts.
if you have the last original red 1957 chevy in the world it is your right to paint it blue if you wish.
if i was a billionaire i could buy up every neo cart and make neobrick-cart house from it and nobody could do a thing about it.
if every company had their way it would be illegal to do any little change to any thing.
but we have laws that some times protect us to keep us away from a companies best interest $$$$$.
there are laws against bootleging/copeis to protect the company.
to say some one is cheap because they dont buy a $2000 game is just stupid.
each person knows how much they can spend.
it is up to each person to buget their own standards of living.
for what i make it would just be fing retarded for me to spend $2000 on just one game.
lets see my full neo-geo collection with 28 real titles value is around $3000+
i could buy a metal slug aes and not have 90% of my other games lets see what is a smarter choice?? :P
i dont think it is cheap it is get the most bang for your buck.
at least i buy the games. fing cheap is some rom whore that never buys a thing.
i have every neo geo rom i can find. but the games i like i do buy. not like i want to spend 300+ and not like a game.
i know it is better to have some one in the neo-geo scene like me than not. i do buy a few new aes tiltes a year and i have plans to buy more.
i dont have every official neo product but every bit counts.
snk is just a little stupid if you ask me if they dont release a title that is in such
high demand.

neo*geo
09-20-2003, 06:25 AM
now conversions are good for playing puzzle bobble on your aes and games that are on mvs only and you dont sacrifice a cart you just turn it into a mvs cart and that means it is best for both worlds

neo*geo
09-20-2003, 06:30 AM
how did u do sam show 2 and a metal slug 1 in one cart that is amazing knowledge

Trevor spencer
09-20-2003, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by buster_broon
yeah the thing is i am not into conversions

if the game was available at a decent price i would get it - the real mccoy

but paying over 2000usd for 1 game - my wife would cut my balls off, so for 250usd i can get a conversion of an otherwise game i would never have owned

out of the 15 conversions i have, 5 are available on the home format but these games are either super expensive or i just dont rate them to spend £300+ on them

my top 3 most expensive games are (this is where you see the tight arse scotsman)

3/ strikers 1945plus = $360
2/ METAL SLUG X = $450
1/ Prehistoric isle 2 = $460

so out of the 3 most expensive games i own - 2 are conversions, but they look absolutely amazing

why dont you buy a cheap mvs game like a bare world heroes and buy an aes metal slug and convert it to mvs - i wonder who many people will be upset then :tickled: :tickled: :tickled:

hi buster
could you post some pics of your conversions id be interested in seeing them :D

buster_broon
09-21-2003, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Trevor spencer
hi buster
could you post some pics of your conversions id be interested in seeing them :D

you have been pm'd

Electroman
09-21-2003, 08:51 AM
From the standpoint that SNK got their money for the MVS and AES cart I agree that conversions are just fine and dandy.

But I disagree that so many of these carts will be effectively destroyed, decreasing the population of FF3 and others. Its like hunting wild animals, and its sad.

But social darwinism says survival of the fittest. Nobody will stop making conversions. Nothing you can do about that. The only thing you can do is to just not buy them.

Electroman
09-21-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Bulletnyourass
This statement is not made to choose either side. I'm wondering why people are complaining. The bottom line is......these games were already PURCHASED. The ones that want conversions...buy them. The ones that don't want conversions....don't buy them.

...


Remember, I am not choosing either sides argument. I'm just saying....Playmore might want to consider this as an option...even if they only released 150 units of each title.

Just a thought!

Bring forth the FLAMES!!!!

Phillip

Not only will I not flame you, but I will stand by your side with a firehose... I couldn't agree with you more. SNKP would make some good money rereleasing the old stuff once again. I can think of a half-dozen titles I'd want to buy if they did that.

But if SNKP were to re-release older games, would that devalue existing 1st run stuff? Would MS1, MOTW, etc drop in value?

SNKJorge
09-21-2003, 10:23 AM
I think some people get mad at conversions because you
have to sacrafice a cart to do it.

I don't think conversions are that bad, I myself have some,
right buster ;)

Although I only have conversions of MVS only games, but I also
buy the MVS kit for that game as well, otherwise I would feel
it's incomplete.:glee:

buster_broon
09-21-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by xtoo_short20x
I don't think conversions are that bad, I myself have some,
right buster :

Breakeeeeeeeeeeeers revengeeeeeeeeeee

Tremendous

i am a cheap ass dig and definately a son of a pitch, i have conversions of items which you can buy :crying:

bulletnyourass
09-21-2003, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Electroman
Not only will I not flame you, but I will stand by your side with a firehose... I couldn't agree with you more. SNKP would make some good money rereleasing the old stuff once again. I can think of a half-dozen titles I'd want to buy if they did that.

But if SNKP were to re-release older games, would that devalue existing 1st run stuff? Would MS1, MOTW, etc drop in value?

Electroman,

Yes it would devalue the 1st run MS1,MS2, Kizuna, Ultimate 11, Ninja Masters. Remember what makes these games so expensive is the fact that they never come up for sale (not to mention the limited amount of Euro Kizuna and Ultimate 11...I'm not sure how many MS1 were produced) As long as they were released with the same ORIGINAL ARTWORK. Now if they were to package them differently (ie... Playstations Greatest Hits), that would be a different story. Although. I would not spend $300 + for a game with a Greatest Hits Banner or any other non original looking wordings/markings on them. Is it fair to the collector with the $11,000.00 Kizuna? Yes. He bought the game for what he felt it was worth to him and he admittedly said he had no intention on having the price guide reflect his sale in an attempt to solidify the carts resale value.

Well, that's enough from me. I am sure I have pissed some people off with this past statement. I truly feel this will be THE only way SNKP would be able to combat conversions. ELIMINATE the DEMAND for CONVERSIONS by making a SUPPLY of the titles mostly CONVERTED.

Phillip

buster_broon
09-21-2003, 10:43 AM
i wonder if there are a couple of hundred Euro kizuna's sitting in a warehouse somewhere, just like the 200 super dodgeballs that have just surfaced

now that would be funny;)

bulletnyourass
09-21-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by buster_broon
i wonder if there are a couple of hundred Euro kizuna's sitting in a warehouse somewhere, just like the 200 super dodgeballs that have just surfaced

now that would be funny;)

Buster,

That's the same thing I was thinking when I was typing that. The problem with that would be that whoever had them in their possession would never tell anyone and release one at a time because they know how much money could be gained in the bidding wars if there was only 1 for sale. If the one Wolfgang sold went for 11,000 Euros, how much would a NEW/SEALED one fetch?

Phillip

buster_broon
09-21-2003, 10:49 AM
to be honest though if you had 200 of them how many cats here would pay 11,000usd for a game

i reckon i could list a handfull

yes we are all hardcore gamers/collectors alike but who has the spare ready's - personally i would even dream about paying more than 750usd for a game

i for one couldn't justify spending 10,000+ on 1 game no matter how rare it is

that means i am less hardcore than the rest of you :crying:

bulletnyourass
09-21-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by buster_broon
to be honest though if you had 200 of them how many cats here would pay 11,000usd for a game

i reckon i could list a handfull

yes we are all hardcore gamers/collectors alike but who has the spare ready's - personally i would even dream about paying more than 750usd for a game

i for one couldn't justify spending 10,000+ on 1 game no matter how rare it is

that means i am less hardcore than the rest of you :crying:

Buster,

I am as Hardcore as you are. I would have to get a Euro Kizuna Conversion. 10,000 is for buying a HOUSE, CAR or LAND. There are probably 5-10 people who would be able to buy immediately. That's why they would release one at a time. After you get the money from those people, you can deal with only getting $500-$1000 per unit. At least 10 people here would pay $10,000. Hell that's $100,000 that's a hell of a down payment for a house. Well it's off to my storage unit to dust of those er......ummmmm......uhhhhh....... forget anything I just said.


Phillip:D

SNKJorge
09-21-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by buster_broon
Breakeeeeeeeeeeeers revengeeeeeeeeeee

Tremendous

i am a cheap ass dig and definately a son of a pitch, i have conversions of items which you can buy :crying:

Yep, it looks great on the side of my Breakers, (Fapping at its
best). I still need a Fight Fever conversion, along with the MVS
kit, as crazy as that may sound... :loco: It's the only fighter
I'm missing.

djjimmyjames
04-15-2006, 06:13 PM
Im retarted didnt mean to bump it.

RocketLawnChair
04-16-2006, 01:34 AM
I've always been conflicted about conversions. I'm not crazy about them, but I don't curse them or anything. I never liked the idea of sacrificing ANY original cart, but let's face it: Does anyone *really* want to drop an insane chunk of change to own a "real" Slug 1 homecart? :(

Once a proper conversion's performed, you essentially have the same thing (depending on how much of a hack n slash job you got :p) minus the original art. To people who say "You might as well play a boot.", I think that's a little extreme, since a conversion's simply original parts interchanged.

Main thing about conversions that's pretty bad is there's always that one person that ends up paying 2 grand for a Slug 1, which they don't know is a conversion. I generally think conversions are okay, as long as they're reasonably priced, because they help people complete their collections. (I don't care much for sacrificing carts though. :() I'm an MVS guy anyway, so take this as you will.

Fakk2
06-02-2006, 06:41 AM
So far I have made myself about 17 Conversions, all from real SNK chips, and not 1 game was sacrificed and tossed away! Every conversion got swapped completely and both AES and MVS carts still work fine. I have even gotten roms (chips) from people that have sacced carts and turned them into working MVS carts. If you convert them properly you wont need to toss or sacrifice anything, and there is nothing wrong with that IMO. I truely love conversions as much as my real SNK carts. Hell, I would never get to own Pochi and Nyaa on AES any other way. Conversions, if made from the real deal, and nothing was truely sacrificed, are rockin' to own.

Thats funny SNKJorge needs a conversion of Fight Fever, and thats the only conversion that I been trying to sell off for over a year and nobody is intrested in it! lol ironic.

crashx99
06-06-2006, 04:23 AM
I know that companies are allowing smaller publishers/distributors to repress their games (REZ, Gitaroo Man, etc..), would it be a too far of a stretch to get the rights to reproduce a certain AES or MVS game yourself (as long as you had the facilities to do this). That could be something, someone with enough capital could do.

Would that cut down on conversions? Probably.

I'm all for conversions, only because some games are valued at waaaayyyy too much, pricing me out of the market (even for MVS games).

Neo Alec
06-14-2006, 01:39 PM
Of course they're not bootlegs, but conversions aren't really necessary now that we have the Super MVS II Converter. And you're sacrificing parts from other games in order to make them.

Two games in one cart? That sounds pretty ghetto.

dogtoy
06-17-2006, 06:17 PM
This entire thread is just the same old opinions that have been posted here again and again. Everybody has their own opinion and you are not going to argue someone else over to your side.

Easy solution--- If you can't afford an original AES cart, buy an MVS, if you don't want a supergun get one that's consolized. Hell I'll consolize an MVS for you that will be a whole lot cheaper than most modded AES systems. Original MVS carts of PB, MS1, and all those others are always cheaper than original AES carts or conversion carts.

Keep on truckin'

-DT

EvilMike
06-21-2006, 05:22 PM
yeah, that's why I was 'crying' in the other thread where we were talking about this. (I forgot they were two separate threads)I know you're into conversions, but the problem is still there. If MVS Metal Slugs weren't being converted, I might be able to get one for less than 70$.

Yeah but that logic is flawed. If the people that conveted them had a phantom-1 instead they would still own said Slug 1 MVS and the market would not change.

EDIT: .,.....wow I just relized how old the post was I responded to. Stupid new sub forum :P.

Jesterzzn
06-22-2006, 05:40 PM
Buster,

I am as Hardcore as you are. I would have to get a Euro Kizuna Conversion. 10,000 is for buying a HOUSE, CAR or LAND. There are probably 5-10 people who would be able to buy immediately. That's why they would release one at a time. After you get the money from those people, you can deal with only getting $500-$1000 per unit. At least 10 people here would pay $10,000. Hell that's $100,000 that's a hell of a down payment for a house. Well it's off to my storage unit to dust of those er......ummmmm......uhhhhh....... forget anything I just said.


Phillip:DHell, where I live 100k can buy you a nice 2000sq ft house on 5 acres of land.