Neo Future - New Hardware or Good Old MVS?

With all this talk about the 'crystal system' (whether it is or not the follow-up to the MVS hardware), I started thinking.

Do we really want new hardware?

If rumours prove true and the Neo/SNK franchises enjoy more development with offices in the US, should they go with the already widely distributed MVS/AES hardware? New hardware?

For me, I say no, I am more than happy with more MVS games with AES releases.

I mean wont new hardware mean an end to home Neo gaming?

And is new technology really that important? For my money, the MVS pumps out pure 2D goodness that I never get tired of, and its a system that cranks out great 2D games so long as artists work overtime on art, sound, and innovative gameplay.

The whole world is obsessed with faster and better game hardware, especially in the home, and look where its taken us - polygon city. It's left us with a bunch of consoles that are 2D lemons.

Do graphics ALWAYS have to get better and better (whatever that means)? When is it enough? And when is gameplay and game design more important than aesthetics? For my money Neo games are among the best looking ever created.

I mean think of games in general, video or not. Has anyone ever said "oh, chess is outdated, the pieces need to be changed and made of better material, and the game itself needs to be tweeked. How about knights moving 5 spaces instead of 3?" <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Try and respond in this form:

1. simple yes or no - new hardware or not?
2. explain ur answer

Lee (garg7) http://www.neogeotemple.com

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: gargoyle7 ]

Well, the way I see it...
The MVS was pushed for what, over 10 years now? Not to say that it's not a great system... But still pushing the MVS could be compared to the Sega Genesis being pushed... It's old. People want new stuff. Even if the Neo-community as a whole doesn't want new hardware, just how much could we support SNK? What arcade operator wants to shell out $1,000 for a new MVS 16-bit game cart, IE. KOF 2001? I think the whole idea of "newer is better" is not gonna go away any time soon. We may like the MVS, but let's face it, most people probably tired of it or never got interested. Could SNK/Brezzasoft keep afloat any more on Neo homecart releases and MVS carts? How many of those do they actually sell? I mean, the latest homecart releases are what, 500 English copies? So maybe if they can make some money with a new system, they can continue to support the 16-bit Neo we know and love.

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

My answer is a resounding, "No".

The Neo-Geo still has plenty of untapped potential left. Moving on to a new platform
would signify the end of 2D gaming as we know it.

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: NeoLord ]

Well stated NeoLord...
The MVS has sooo much more to give...
The Crystal System is not necessary to carry on the tradition of great "classic" 2d game creations!
-BB

Your love for the antiquated MVS hardware simply astounds me. Don't get me wrong, I love it too, but the MVS has since become a crutch.

Naomi has been proven to be an excellent machine to produce 2d on. It's widely available to operators around the globe and the group of present/former SNK employees can hack away at it's power for another few years.


MVS was tapped out as soon as MOTW came out.

I hate to say it, but we need to say good buy to the venerable MVS hardware. It was legendary.

I'm with Rade on this one.

There's only so far you can take the MVS (although it has hosted phenomenal stuff lately like MS3). The Crystal System would let SNK take their 2D art design further in their games.

It's unfortunate that the Neo cart encryption has been broken. If SNK/Brezza moves on to the Crystal System, they shouldn't have to worry about bootlegs for awhile.

I think I know what the original poster is getting at and I'm not sure some of those that replied really understand. Sure, we could get a new system that is X times more powerful than the MVS and games will look X times better than they do now. What the original poster is asking is do we NEED such a system? Look at MotW. Do we NEED prettier graphics or can they continue to pound away on the good old MVS? Newer hardware does NOT equal better games. Gameplay in general is not determined by better hardware, but instead by the MINDS behind that hardware. If they continues to release games of MotW's caliber for the MVS I would be more than happy. After all, does it get any better than that in the 2D arena? If the MVS can deliver the best NOW do we need a new system? Hmm, a tough question indeed, but here's my answer.

In short, I say yes. Give us a new system. One that can be distributed to the masses and one that does the Neo-Geo name justice. A 2D powerhouse that spits on all of its 3D competition and proves once and for all that 2D is where it's at. If the minds behind the Neo-Geo can deliver once again...I cream my pants at the mere thought. Think of an affordable system that BEGINS where the MVS left off! You might say that the Neo did it all and did it all in the best possible way, but let me tell you this. Back in 1994 when you were playing Samurai Spirits 2 did you not think it couldn't get any better? You couldn't imagine better graphics or gamplay back then, yet here we are. The same system delivering games beyond our wildest dreams, some 10 years later. If this new system can accomplish that, make us believe it doesn't get any better than MotW then somehow release a game that makes MotW look like World Heroes...my God. If I have to give up the MVS to experience that then so be it. I dare say that 10 years from now while playing this new system my head will pop due to overstimulating 2D goodness.

HOWEVER, all it will take to change my mind is one word. One single word, two measly letters, will cause me to turn tail and run with my middle finger up and the words "Shove that new system up your ass" on my lips. The second they announce a 3D game for this system I will cradle my MVS and continue living as if this new system didn't even exist. They may have already announced this (I haven't done my research on the new system yet) so it may very well be a 2D/3D hybrid, but if it is I won't even bother with it.

There you have it. If they release a next generation 2D powerhouse that lives up to the neo name I say rock on. If they release a "competetive" 3D machine I say suck my dick.


Either way, I will still have my MVS...

Originally posted by NeoLord:
<STRONG>My answer is a resounding, "No".

The Neo-Geo still has plenty of untapped potential left. Moving on to a new platform
would signify the end of 2D gaming as we know it.

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: NeoLord ]</STRONG>

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I agree with neo lord. The Neo to me is all thats left of pure 2D gaming. Killing the neo is like pulling the plug on 2D gaming as we know it.

yes! the neo-geo as we know it will live forever and ever. thosands of centuries its hidden potential will endure, it will live forever!

fuck arcade operators who cares about what they think anyways?

Originally posted by flint:
<STRONG>fuck arcade operators who cares about what they think anyways?</STRONG>

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Umm.....you should. They will be the one to get the new SNK games for you to play.

Yes new hardware is the way to go.

While I would like that the MVS should be kept, I know deep down in my heart that the HK bootleggers have now cracked most of the encryption on the ROMs. I also know that a new 2d arcade board will go over like a steak in India. I think it is great that the essence of SNK is alive and well, but I really don't see a future for them with the Crystal system. Unless it has some kind of super sweet GeForce 5 in it.

I think they would be better off making games for the NAOMI 2 board, or possibly that sweet ass PGM board.

Well it all depends on how the system would turn out, 2D-3D, both offer gaming.
I just could not picture playing KOF in 3D personally, because 3D fighters are still being perfected so they can have a lasting appeal.
Soul Caliber is probably the best shot out, as of today.

Of course I anderstand all of you and your point of view.
Of course we are all proud of our 2D system since it brought us the best gameplay ever made...
For many of us the 3D style is often followed with a poor game play... And that's right <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">.

Even if I would like to say "no we don't need a new hardware", We sould be consious that most of the gamers are attracted with "pretty" games and that's what brings money to the company.
Even if we all know tha capcom's figthing games aren't as good as SNK's fighting games accordind to gameplay (and sometime graphims too) it's right that most players better know the name of Capcom than SNK, and why??
Simply because most of their games show big explosions etc and in fact look better... And that's what attractes people! More, nowadays we even see people that say:"Ho.. beurk, this game is a 2D game.. so it can't be good!"
As a consequence, if SNK really want to find new supporters, they absolutly need a new hardware with 3D support and they absolutly need to create 3D games f they really want to earn money!
Even if we don't agree with that we must stop to be selfidh personns!
SNK needs a new polcy, new supporters !
For my part the 3D style is coming and it's the only solution for SNK. Anyway for my part, even if the 3D style isn't so good for all the types of games I m conviced that even the 3D fighting games will one day have good gameplay ... And I hope SNK will be the fisrt to show us such a game.

An other thing:
I didn't say that SNK will only release 3D games right now... SNK also need to keep their old fans by releasing pretty fighting 2D games... US!!!

I say yes, welcome the new hardware if it truly exists. I mean, I love my MVS and all, but if we can see the same brilliant gameplay we're used to go hand in hand with updated 2D/3D hardware, why not?

Good old MVS/AES!!
For me the NEO starts and finish with this wonderful hardware... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

God, are you people that crazy?

Of course we need new Hardware! The MVS is awesome but "hidden potential?" are you fucking kidding me? 10+ years on a system will give us the max you can in performance optimization. Hell it can't even do high res 2D!

And you know what, you'd better hope for new hardware if SNK is to make any money! See 2D games can sell, Guilty Gear X proved that. The 2D games that can look good will sell well. New hardware will allow them to make new games that have good, competitive graphics. See SNK wants to do things differently this time around, they want to make MONEY! And lets face it folks, mainstream gamers (ie. where the money is), don't really go for Neo games anymore. They go for MvC2, and new Street Fighters, but not SNK games. They need some new graphics. I could care less about 2D or 3D, but if SNK tries to go 3D and has vastly underpowered hardware, I'll just laugh. Hopefully they'll have good 2D games that look better than the Neo. And hopefully It'll be CD-DVD based like Naomi games that are hard to emulate <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">! We'll just have to wait for ports to other systems to play the games, cause if they try a new home console they're going to die HARD.


Peace

JHendrix

PS. If the crystal system is based of the PS2 arcade hardware, I'll laugh my ass off!

Originally posted by JHendrix:
<STRONG>God, are you people that crazy?
Of course we need new Hardware! And you know what, you'd better hope for new hardware if SNK is to make any money</STRONG>

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I'll tell you a secret... SNK is dead... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">
New hardware means everything but NEO-GEO...
New hardware, new system, 2D/3D capabilities... who cares?!? I just loved SNK games... the original ones, from the REAL SNK... don't give a damn about hi-res, 3D backgrounds...

Originally posted by BRANDI:
<STRONG>I'll tell you a secret... SNK is dead... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">
New hardware means everything but NEO-GEO...
New hardware, new system, 2D/3D capabilities... who cares?!? I just loved SNK games... the original ones, from the REAL SNK... don't give a damn about hi-res, 3D backgrounds...</STRONG>

Click to expand...

Most of SNK's people are at this new company, and if you like they're games then you'll most likely approve of the new titles they're coming out with. Simple as that. I want to see my next KOF or MOTW or even MS sequels in high resolution GGX quality 2D! Is that so much to ask god damn it?!?!?!?!?

Peace

JHendrix

I don't need better graphics to enjoy my games! It's about gameplay, not graphics.

We'll see, mate...
In the meantime, your next Metal Slug has been developed by a never-seen-before Korean company, NOT Nazca... and your next KoF by Eolith, not certain the original KoF development team...
I hope these will be good as the originals, but i'm not too confident...

The people responsible know the MVS hardware better than anyone, which is why they can produce quality games for the system. If they decide to devote themselves to a new platform (i.e. the Crystal System), we could be looking at average titles until they come to terms with the new technology. The CoK has decent graphics, but it doesn’t look any better than Ranagard on Neo-Geo. I just don't see how the Crystal system could enhance gameplay with rendered 2D sprites (something we hope Mega doesn't use in Metal Slug 4), so I ask you this: what’s the point of upgrading if the games will stay the same (graphics excluded)?

Originally posted by NeoLord:
<STRONG>The people responsible know the MVS hardware better than anyone, which is why they can produce quality games for the system. If they decide to devote themselves to a new platform (i.e. the Crystal System), we could be looking at average titles until they come to terms with the new technology. The CoK has decent graphics, but it doesn’t look any better than Ranagard on Neo-Geo. I just don't see how the Crystal system could enhance gameplay with rendered 2D sprites (something we hope Mega doesn't use in Metal Slug 4), so I ask you this: what’s the point of upgrading if the games will stay the same (graphics excluded)?</STRONG>

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Lets see, if the games will stay the same quality, excluding graphics. Well then the reason you upgrade is to get better graphics. That's all I'm hoping for! I want the same kind of great gameplay we've come to love from SNK with better graphics. I still love my Neo Geo but god damn it would be nice to have some recognition. Hell if they make a buck or two then all the better cause it means more games in the future! I'm not saying I want 3D games, I just want some better looking 2D ones! If they can push the MVS as far as MOTW, then think how well they could do with new hardware!

Peace

JHendrix

Originally posted by JHendrix:
<STRONG>
Lets see, if the games will stay the same quality, excluding graphics. Well then the reason you upgrade is to get better graphics.

Click to expand...

I'm not looking to upgrade. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

That's all I'm hoping for! I want the same kind of great gameplay we've come to love from SNK with better graphics. I still love my Neo Geo but god damn it would be nice to have some recognition. Hell if they make a buck or two then all the better cause it means more games in the future! I'm not saying I want 3D games, I just want some better looking 2D ones! If they can push the MVS as far as MOTW, then think how well they could do with new hardware!

Peace

JHendrix</STRONG>

Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but some of us feel differently about it.

Originally posted by BRANDI:
<STRONG>Good old MVS/AES!!
For me the NEO starts and finish with this wonderful hardware... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

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amen


you want a new hardware,


you aint SNK

Pro New Hardware.

Why? Because I want more games.

Who is this 'we' in "Do We Need Better Graphics/Sound"? You know who 'we' is. We is EVERY person who might consider buying a video game, and to a lot of people technological advancement in games is just as important as advancements in gameplay itself. Whether you like it or hate it, it's something you'll have to deal with.

There are people who are driven by the eye candy and a game will NOT will NOT will NOT sell as well as it could with "lackluster" or "antiquated" graphic. Whether that's good or bad is irrelevant. This is a business. An industry. If you feel otherwise, better start playing PC games where scratchware and freeware exist. A console or arcade platform have no such thing. The have games that are designed to make money. Period. Undebatable.

So what does this mean? How does a company respond to a product that doesn't sell well? hmm....let me think...they stop making it! Coke II, Big Mixx, Crystal Pepsi, Cola Flavored Cool-Aid.

All of these things existed at one point in time and now do not. Because they didn't make enough money.

How would you feel if your favorite fast food joint had to go out of business because they didn't have take-out bags with 5 colors on it? Well everyone else has 10 colors! How can they expect us to buy this when they give it to us in a 3 color bag!??!! HUH!??

That's absurd right? Because you're not buying the pacakging, you're buying the food.

Same thing. Graphics = Packaging. Gameplay = food. Graphics = Unbelieably Necessary in the current times.

That's the way it is.

I'd rather have new games on a new system than no games at all, because the MVS can't keep up anymore.

And if the new games on the Crystal System don't impress you...compare them to Joy Joy Kid. There's a learning curve to using hardware...they games will only get better. They always do.

Originally posted by Daisuke Jigen:
<STRONG>While I would like that the MVS should be kept, I know deep down in my heart that the HK bootleggers have now cracked most of the encryption on the ROMs.</STRONG>

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hahahahahaha

"HK bootleggers" didn't crack the ROMs.

one of the main ppl involved with cracking them resides here as a highly respected giver of tech advice...