How about REVISING and REFINING the guide?

Tonk/DSD...hear me out brothers...just bear with me for a few.

The more I think about it, I think there should be some sort of guide...A GUIDE...not a LAW.

To someone who is new to the scene, what is the difference between 3 Count Bout and Neo Turf Masters?

Their both older. Hell, newbie logic would probably dictate that 3 Count Bout is 'worth' more than NTM...Wrestling is more popular than Golf.

But what they wouldn't get is that there are SO MANY 3 Count Bout carts that you can get one for $10...a Mint Complete one for $40. I had to pay $60 for my Neo Turf Masters and it's worth every penny....a Mint Complete one would go for $100 easy.

So in that regard it's important to have.

I think the reason the games are going so high is we have NO actual grading scale.

This is especially so on the MVS side.

Let's assume that the MVS guide is a fair estimation, okay?

We should establish that $275 is for a MINT Nightmare In The Dark.

Mint means: Never Opened, Never Used/Rarely Used, Contains All Art and Extras also in perfect condition, Matching Serial Numbers...like new condition.

That is 'mint'. There is no such thing as 'mint, except...'. It's 'mint' or it's aint.

Near Mint: Used but not abused, Contains All Art and Extras, Matching Serial Numbers.

Very Good: Used but not abused, Contains Some Art and Extras or damaged Art and Extras. Matching Serial Numbers.

Good: Used with some visible damage to cart, label, serial numbers or box. Missing or No Extras. Serial Numbers May Not Match.

Poor: Used with damage, Cart still functional. No Box. No Extras.

Broken: Self-Explanatory.

That's a good guideline for determining price, since one of the main thing that makes these prices so high is Collectors. If you're upping the price because it's a collectable than it should be graded and priced as such. If it's being sold as a video game then it shouldn't cost that much to begin with.

Collecter's Prices:
Mint: 90%-110% list value
Near Mint: 70%-90% list value
Very Good: 50%-70%
Good: 30%-50% list value
Poor: 10%-30% list value
Broken: <10% list value

Now, if you feel the need to buy a broken Bang Bead $100 may be a bit steep, but you have to have a classification for the worst kind.

Most "players" should really be happy with a Poor or Good game as it doesn't affect what you really want...which is to play it.

If a "player" desires a Very Good or Mint (Collector's Grade Games) then they should be willing to pay the premium prices...there's no complaining. If you want something nice, you gotta pay for it.

A guide like this, or even using the C system, like action figures, would really help to stabalize prices.

Think about it, you don't go on eBay and see someone listing a MINT Barry Bonds Rookie card with a hole in it! No...that's Poor Condition.

Mint shouldn't be a subjective term. It's an absolute, quantifiable term.

THIS IS WHAT IS MINT.
THIS IS WHAT IS VERY GOOD.

Two seperate terms meaning seperate things.

A person should not be able to sell a "Mint Neo Bomberman" that is just the cart.

Seeing as how this is the main reference that everyone uses, if we adopt a system like this, the sellers will have no choice but to adopt! They can't have it both ways. They can't go by our prices but not follow our guidelines.

By imposing these guidelines you WILL drive down the price of "Players Grade" games as upposed to the "Collectors Grade" games.

A "Good" MS3 MVS cart CAN NOT fetch more than half of the "Mint" price. PERIOD. Any more and people will call 'foul'.

The grading scale is, obviously, for collectors. The lack of a box automatically makes the condition 'poor' or 'good'. That's absurd to players! Who cares about the box??

Exactly! The collectors do. Some players may want the box, but in that case you have to move up towards the Collector's Grade and you'll have to pay more.

We can't have it both ways: We want mint games and cheap prices...not gonna happen. Hell...If someone can find a way, I'm all for it! But there are Neo Geo collectors as well as players.

Players can keep their eyes peeled for the Poor, Good and Very Good conditon games.

Collectors can keep their eyes peeled for the Near Mint and Mint games.

I think we SHOULD have a price guide, but there should be grades of value and a tangible, quantifiable way of establishing a games 'grade'.

Anyone have some thoughts on that?


*Edited cause I screwed up the percentiles*

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Blaine ]

You made some very good points. What we need (or what most newbies need) is a guide line, not a Lex Neo Geo.

However, I think this could be accomplished without a real price guide.

Why not putting all these factors (condition, distribution, (current) demand, age, etc.) into a well constructed Neo buying FAQ? That would give us the chance to get a general idea of some prices, without the need of a table with all the games and their partly fictional prices.

Or perhaps it's time for a "Grand Unifying Theory" for the Neo world:

Price = (megs * age) / (demand-factor * condition-factor) + X

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I kinda don't care about the price guide, but I can tell you why what you're proposing won't work. It's very simple actually. You can add whatever you want the beginning middle or end of the guide, it doesn't matter, people will just skip over the text/scales or what ever, find their game and see the max price and that's what they'll charge. You have to assume that people are generally stupid and won't wade through a lot of info, they'll just look at the highest price and they'll be done with it.

Don't get me wrong your stuff to add there is great, it would make it a lot more useful to me or anyone with half a brain. But most people will just skip over it. It's a shame really, but true.

Peace

JHendrix

Originally posted by JHendrix:
<STRONG>You have to assume that people are generally stupid and won't wade through a lot of info, they'll just look at the highest price and they'll be done with it.
</STRONG>

Click to expand...

Oh I couldn't agree more but...if we establish WHY a Mint MS3 costs what it does then someone who doesn't adhere to the guidelines and charges MINT price for something that is obviously GOOD won't last long.

There are two things that people reference when selling a Neo Game for a lot of money...Previous eBay auctions or NG.com's list.

I think that people are being taken advantage of by unscruptlous sellers.

I don't think a grading system will solve the problem...it may only dent it but at least a buyer can look and see "Hey...that's a rip off, screw that." and if it helps a little and hurts none then that's a good thing.

I'm sure there are MUCH better ways of establishing a grade (What if you have a brand new KoF2k1 without the box. By my grade it's automatically poor. But you gotta start somewhere.

we have NO actual grading scale.

Click to expand...

Thats our whole point Blaine.
The guide needs to be updated & revamped in our opinion.
That's alot of work.
Were all saying, if your not willing to do that, then why do u keep it?
Delete it.

Also,
people that collect these games want this to be a serious collectors market.
The only thing serious about neo, is the price.
It lacks almost every other fundamental of modern collecting.
Stability, & an agreement by collectors on the true raretity of an item.

Those who have been into neo for over a decade,
can't even agree on the value of something.
Nor the rareity.
What a joke.

With stamps, cards, comics, dolls, cars, etc, etc.
People judge an items value based on condition.
Set out in condition scales, & the rareity is based on numbers produced.

We cant tell the actual production #'s,
cause SNK never bothered to tell us.

Were all just guessing, stating our opinions.
Problem is, that same newbie your worried about.
Comes to this site & thinks that the info is fact, not just an opinion.

How many card guides do you know of, base rareity of collectable cards, on well wishing?
Just a hint, there are none.

Now if someone got this info out of a former SNK employee, & could proove it.
Well that would be a different matter.
Then we could make a guide that would knock your socks off.

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: nick_th_fury ]

well personally me as a newbie (buyer not seller) would like a guide just to be sure im not getting ripped off. so if it is possible to make a price list that is as accurate as possible it would help me out alot

I like the action figure grading scale, as it offers a wider range, but in reality, we need more seller honesty. I don't care about the prices, I care about items being advertised properly.

Of course, if you take my Breakers cart for example, I say that the cart, box, and insert are in very good/excellent condition, but the manual has some creasing, and the back cover of the manual is a little dirty. People then treat it like it has no manual.

So for a seller to omit details means less hassle until the deal is just about done - then it's up to the buyer to make a stink, but how many times do you think that doesn't happen. A seller can say, I said the manual was in "good" condition, not "near mint," and then offer the money back in exchange for the cart (extra cost to buyer as usual due to shipping). Argh, just bad all around.

NO GUIDES = NO CONTROVERSY
We have an Emulator that exists if people wish to try out a game or two which will allow you to gauge how much you think a title is worth to you.
I've always wanted an original Metal Slug in mint condition because I'm satisfied with the game from beginning to end,I consider it a classic.
How much will I pay for the game MAX? Honestly,no more than $500.If I can't get it for that price I can do without it.
We have a great CD format available and the MVS format.I'll live....it's not like I don't have other any other options...
ONCE again..I don't give a damn about prices but the guide is being ABUSED by sellers misrepresenting their product and that I give a DAMN about!
This scene still does'nt have a COMPLETE,COMPREHENSIVE FAQ available for newbies but we're more concerned about a price guide??? Both sides of the argument I am referring to....
Let's all keep our own price guides to ourselves and obey the the spending limitations we set for ourselves.
I don't need anyone telling me how much something is worth because if i have the BUCKS and I want it bad enough I am going to make a the best possible offer I can according to my "PERSONAL PRICE GUIDE"
Eliminate the GUIDE and let's eliminate this bullshit!
Why do we have to make it a GOOD vs EVIL situation when we debate something?!
Whatever happend to INNOCENT until proven GUILTY?
-BB

No guide=prices' anarchy.
Revised, changed, updated, whatever...
but keep it!
For me it's important to have a guide-line (NOT the bible) for newbies and for all the scene...
I'm not so sure that without a price guide the prices would drop and everything would be better... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

BB, I thought there was a big FAQ on the Neo. I've read it multiple times when I was coming into the scene. It was pretty comprehensive.

Peace

JHendrix

Originally posted by JHendrix:
<STRONG>BB, I thought there was a big FAQ on the Neo. I've read it multiple times when I was coming into the scene. It was pretty comprehensive.

Peace

JHendrix</STRONG>

Click to expand...

The Mullins FAQ? It's pretty good but a new MORE comprehensive one will be released in the future.Something with more specifics,covering more topics,etc.

As far as having no price guide =Anarchy
The community was doing just fine before it's inception.
Some sort of guide can be included in the new faq...
-BB