Price guide updated and summing up current trend

Hi all and thanks for all of you who sent in suggestions to update and keep the guide in touch with current market prices.

Current trend of the home cart market seems,once again,to offer more and more competitive prices,mainly due to many copies of some titles offered on ebay.
That leads us to comment a funny statement made by a newbie here:

"For the simple reason that you state that Japanese carts are for gamers and US carts are for collectors you should step down or better yet be FIRED from your role. That remark is so arrogant and biased I can't believe you were actually dumb enough to write in public."

What reported above just shows how much someone can be blind examining the neo geo home cart market.

Japanese home carts are getting cheaper and cheaper,especially compared to US home carts of some of the best series of the neo geo's line up.
Just have a look at:
King of fighters series
Samurai spirits
Fatal fury
Last Blade
and so on.

Infact,japanese home carts are now in a VERY competitve market.
Ebay and well known sellers offer great games at great prices.
Examples? Samurai 1 to 4 jap home carts offered for less than what a Samurai 4 US home cart could cost alone.
So,under that perspective,japanese home carts ARE the choice for a real gamer,a real gamer who wants to enjoy neo geo games without having to face trouble using converters and finding MVS stuff.
Of course,even cheaper way is MVS way as all know.

All the above is perfectly supporting the statement which I made:japanese home carts are now even cheaper,offered at competitive prices and GIVING THE CHANCE to alot of gamers to step into the neo geo games.

Of course you could be a collector of japanese home carts,seeking for rarer and expensive games like Over Top,Blazing Star and so on.
But the main point of the reasoning made still stands.

If we move our view to US home carts market,we can find that many titles are a lot more expensive.
And that due to NOT competitive market.
Our member Phillip tried to buy Metal slug X and someone asked even $1000 for it(!!).
That teaches us that you need time,experience and money to get rare US home carts at right prices.
Infact who knows me well will remember the battle I fought against that Metal slug 2 US home cart sold for $1100 when its market price was only $600-700.

If we look at earlier titles,sometime US carts are cheaper than japanese counterparts.
Burning fight,top hunter,ninja commando are some good examples.

Considering the recent NGF carts reselling,prices were in keeping with current market,failing to hit the market lowering the prices.
Of course home carts offered are old and quite common game.
Many of us were expecting that since it did seem NGF sold carts away at very low prices,regardless of the titles.
Of course make a profit is totally legit,but it's just fun some of the members complaining about price guide sold games OVERPRICING them.

Another interesting point are the new neo geo systems,offered time ago by neo store and currently offered on ebay and on the forums.

If you don't want to pay big money for them,of course the rule above exposed will work perfectly.
Brand new neo geo system can be found in a competitive market and sell for $400+ less compared to what resellers are asking for it.
Good to note that few days ago a new neo geo system was sold on the forums for about same price which the neo store sold new systems for about 2 years ago(around $900-1000).


So,at the end of the day ,price guide just FOLLOW the market,not set the rule of the market.
Use it as a useful tool for your neo geo buying and selling and it will show you its benefit.

Keep your suggestions coming at simone@neogeo.com.
Thanks again for support.

I can already see the flames that this topic
will bring. glee

...which is a shame, because there are reasons to dislike the price guide but criticisms should be directed at the guide, not its updater.

I have many MVS dealings with Simone and he always manages to sell stuff below the price I expect. I've only ever seen him rail against people overpricing things too.

He is not the price jacker, he only reports price jacking. So if you don't like price jacking he is not your target.

xtoo_short20x:
I can already see the flames that this topic
will bring. glee

Click to expand...

Quite probably...

but the things he said are accurate and reasonable...

the fact that someone don't like them is another matter...

My other post neither should have caused flames.

It is a fact NGF sold home carts at VERY cheap prices.
Shawn even posted an offer.
If the carts had been marketed at $20-30 bucks off compared to current market prices,those prices would have hit the market for sure.
AND THE PRICE GUIDE WOULD HAVE BEEN UPDATED ACCORDINGLY.

Even new neo geo system sold for almost $1000.
IF it had been sold for $600 or so,you can bet prices on the new neo geo system would take a hit as well.

Big MISSED chance.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: FTL ]</small>

I don't really have a problem against FTL, the
only thing I dislike about the him is that he
thinks Japanese carts are for *gamers* only.

If you see close enough he almost never updates the Japanese guide, Kizuna Encounter (JAP) has
sold for over $700 the last couple of times it
was put on ebay, one of them even went for $800.
But there's no updates of it whatsoever.

I collect both English and Jap carts and English
carts are a pain in the ass to find, specially
the KOFs, SS, LB, and all the medium range games,
I believe he has done a good job there....

In the end, I truely believe that a person managing the price guide should have every single cart, YES including EURO, US, and Jap games; I say
this because a person with all the games will most probably know what price he paid for every cart he has bought, and the only person who fits those standards is Shawn, (Proof look at his collection).

xtoo_short20x:
I don't really have a problem against FTL, the
only thing I dislike about the him is that he
thinks Japanese carts are for *gamers* only.

If you see close enough he almost never updates the Japanese guide, Kizuna Encounter (JAP) has
sold for over $700 the last couple of times it
was put on ebay, one of them even went for $800.
But there's no updates of it whatsoever.

I collect both English and Jap carts and English
carts are a pain in the ass to find, specially
the KOFs, SS, LB, and all the medium range games,
I believe he has done a good job there....

In the end, I truely believe that a person managing the price guide should have every single cart, YES including EURO, US, and Jap games; I say
this because a person with all the games will most probably know what price he paid for every cart he has bought, and the only person who fits those standards is Shawn, (Proof look at his collection).

Click to expand...

My statement about japanese carts being for games is under a price comparison perspective.
NO quality judgement implied at all.

Kizuna encounter STB: the game sells on ebay for $580+.
Yamatoku put up one almost every week.
If tyou want a super mint one,$650-700 was the amount requested on private sales and on the board.
Please note that $700 most of the times was with shipping included.

Besides,sometimes yamatoku "can" sell mint copies of a title.
His Kizuna carts sell for $580+ every time.

Hope this explains the quote.

Too Short,

I really don't think thats true. The position I see him holding in his posts is that he thinks US carts are for collectors only. Japanese carts for either, simply because so many of the great games are so expensive in the US format that you have to be motivated by something other than the game to buy them.

Look at MVS and Vinh. MVS is for gamers but nobody would say Vinh is not a collector of MVS. I think that is how Simone sees the Jap market, populated by both gamers and collectors.

English is not Simone's first language and although his use is generally excellent, I think sometimes we can all see the problems he can have make a sophisticated and subtle point, sometimes his language skills aren't quite up to it, I think that is what happened here becuase I know Simone does not believe that Jap carts aren't fit for collection just as he doesn't believe that MVS is not fit for collection.

Simone: If I'm putting words in your mouth let me know!

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: BlackSpy ]</small>

I am a japanese only collector.

But I consider myself a collector and gamer.

I would not buy a KoF 96 US to play.

Nor would I buy a Gowcaiser US to play.

as a pure gamer, you don't pick the most expensive version of a game to play, when there are two other substantially cheaper versions that play as good (MVS and japanese).

Moreover, some of us may want to have complete and uniform collections.

For us, Japanese carts are the way to go. A US collection doesn't include roughly 40 official carts like STSS, SW2, MD2, MDIII, TSS, CMDQ, BS, Pulstar, Breakers, etc. Moreover, finding two English releases is harder than finding a unicorn.

But, for people that are just into fighting games - yes, Japanese carts are the right middle ground between gamer and collector. Not english.

And if a gamer has a brain, he'd just buy the MVS version, a MVS motherboard or a converter, and download the faq. Then he could buy some shock boxes and design his own manuals, because lord knows there are a lot of ugly inserts for home carts - mostly for the KoFs to boot.

So, get it? Stop taking a line of text out of context. Think about the statement before you try to digest it, and there will be no indigestion.

i with most people who have mentioned it, Simone you totally annoyed me with your Jap carts are like loose mvs carts crap

i agree that English carts are generally worth more, but i find the Jap carts more appealing to the eye, i like the way they use the entire box for the art rather than a poxy box with 2 coloured lines on it

i decided to collect Jap carts because thats what i wanted, heck if i wanted the English carts i would have gotten them - harder to find but i would have had what i wanted nevertheless

just replaced my us world heroes 2 jet with a japanese one because it looks better

to be honest my most prized cart isnt even near the most expensive i have

i think you should get off you high horse wrt English carts, to me Japanese carts are just as collectable, hell i aint never gonna sell the collection so who cares what my stuff is worth

FTL:

xtoo_short20x:
I don't really have a problem against FTL, the
only thing I dislike about the him is that he
thinks Japanese carts are for *gamers* only.

If you see close enough he almost never updates the Japanese guide, Kizuna Encounter (JAP) has
sold for over $700 the last couple of times it
was put on ebay, one of them even went for $800.
But there's no updates of it whatsoever.

I collect both English and Jap carts and English
carts are a pain in the ass to find, specially
the KOFs, SS, LB, and all the medium range games,
I believe he has done a good job there....

In the end, I truely believe that a person managing the price guide should have every single cart, YES including EURO, US, and Jap games; I say
this because a person with all the games will most probably know what price he paid for every cart he has bought, and the only person who fits those standards is Shawn, (Proof look at his collection).

Click to expand...

My statement about japanese carts being for games is under a price comparison perspective.
NO quality judgement implied at all.

Kizuna encounter STB: the game sells on ebay for $580+.
Yamatoku put up one almost every week.
If tyou want a super mint one,$650-700 was the amount requested on private sales and on the board.
Please note that $700 most of the times was with shipping included.

Besides,sometimes yamatoku "can" sell mint copies of a title.
His Kizuna carts sell for $580+ every time.

Hope this explains the quote.

Click to expand...

Well I just checked my ebay account and I deleted
the link to the auction that finished to weeks
ago for the Kizuna Encounter (Jap) cart that finished at $800. Yamatoku always starts his Kizuna Encounter auctions at $580, they do not sell for $580, they always surpass the $650 mark.
Oh and he does not put a Kizuna Encounter game every week. I can count the # of Kizuna Encounter
carts he has sold in the last 8 months and I can
tell you that the average prices is $700+. I bought my Kizuna Encounter from NBM and I bought
it for over 700+ the cart was almost in NEW condition though.

Originally posted by: BlackSpy:
<strong>Too Short,

I really don't think thats true. The position I see him holding in his posts is that he thinks US carts are for collectors only. Japanese carts for either, simply because so many of the great games are so expensive in the US format that you have to be motivated by something other than the game to buy them.

Look at MVS and Vinh. MVS is for gamers but nobody would say Vinh is not a collector of MVS. I think that is how Simone sees the Jap market, populated by both gamers and collectors.

English is not Simone's first language and although his use is generally excellent, I think sometimes we can all see the problems he can have make a sophisticated and subtle point, sometimes his language skills aren't quite up to it, I think that is what happened here becuase I know Simone does not believe that Jap carts aren't fit for collection just as he doesn't believe that MVS is not fit for collection.

Simone: If I'm putting words in your mouth let me know!

Click to expand...

You are probably right about that, but still he
does sound arrogant, and I am not the only person
who thinks so.

FTL:
My other post neither should have caused flames.

It is a fact NGF sold home carts at VERY cheap prices.
Shawn even posted an offer.
If the carts had been marketed at $20-30 bucks off compared to current market prices,those prices would have hit the market for sure.
AND THE PRICE GUIDE WOULD HAVE BEEN UPDATED ACCORDINGLY.

Even new neo geo system sold for almost $1000.
IF it had been sold for $600 or so,you can bet prices on the new neo geo system would take a hit as well.

Big MISSED chance.

Click to expand...

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

This is where your ignorance shows up big style.

FACT - Dion offered Shawn nearly 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND) homecarts blanket priced at $50 because of the sheer bulk of the purchase. i.e VOLUME DISCOUNT

FACT - had Shawn bought those carts, there is no way in hell he would have retailed them at cost. He's a business man and each cart title would have been given it's own respective retail price.

Those two facts alone blow your stupid fucking ignorant anlysis right out the water.

FACT - you don't have a clue how many carts Chris and Dion have sold from thier liquidation.

FACT - you have no idea what titles they actually sold other than the few titles Dion name dropped in that published email, and what you've seen on eBay.

FACT - there were dozens of titles never made it to their eBay auctions because they were purchased privately.

FACT - YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT BULK PURCHASES WERE MADE OR WHO THEY WERE MADE BY AND WHAT ACTUAL DISCOUNTS THEY GOT

FACT - you've consistently dismissed NGF in the past

FACT - you're now proclaiming they (NGF) would have helped reduce prices(?) and apparently know exactly who purchased what and how much they paid!

WTF? - you're a hypocrite! You have no idea what the hell you're talking about because of your narrow minded views.

STEP DOWN.

LET SOMEONE ELSE RUN THE PRICE GUIDE.

Fellow members, this man has no idea what he is talking about. He is trying to defend non market movement with false facts and accusations on information he is not a party too.
He constantly dismises the Japanese homecart market as inferior to the English home cart market.
He may not jack prices personally, but he hypes and publicises price rises in rare and uncommon homecarts supporting with false reasoning the high prices.
He is only interested in seeing prices either sustained or grow in all English and rare homecarts to protect collector interests and their 'investments'
The price guide is a powerful tool and the WRONG man is managing it.
Only YOU have the power to stop this megalomaniac wreaking more misery on the true neo-geo fans - lobby Shawn for change before things get worse.

OH man... it's like all of the sudden, half of the members of the site woke up stupid.

Buster, he's not saying that Japanese carts are worthless. The guy has plenty that he collects himself.

Keep in mind:

FTL:
If we look at earlier titles,sometime US carts are cheaper than japanese counterparts.
Burning fight,top hunter,ninja commando are some good examples.

Click to expand...

Also, he is stating this in reference to Yamatoku, tken, Solvarou, Bivari, and the many other Japanese sellers that are entering the western market - the crossing of Eastern and Western markets was previously a non-issue. People that brought games over from private deals and had connections could get games on the cheap. Now that is not really the case. I have to compete with Yamatoku every time I see a game on yahoo, because he knows he can sell it on ebay at the western market level and make a profit.

When the neo geo cart prices reach their actual value over the next few months to a year, when all the importers have brought the carts to a world market (eBay) then you'll see that yes, KoF 96 MVS and a Japanese KoF homecart are comparable in value. Not equal - but you can bet your ass that KoF 96 is going to be cheaper. Same for all the other KoFs. Same for the real bouts.

Just look at Sam Sho III - you would pay about or over $100 for it a year and half to two years ago.

Now, $50.

This is what I meant when I said that prices are polarizing.

Last year I could see CMDQ end on yahoo japan at $900 - now $1500.

And when it comes to EBay - $2000.

When items are available to more buyers, the true price is revealed.

buster_broon:
i with most people who have mentioned it, Simone you totally annoyed me with your Jap carts are like loose mvs carts crap

i agree that English carts are generally worth more, but i find the Jap carts more appealing to the eye, i like the way they use the entire box for the art rather than a poxy box with 2 coloured lines on it

i decided to collect Jap carts because thats what i wanted, heck if i wanted the English carts i would have gotten them - harder to find but i would have had what i wanted nevertheless

just replaced my us world heroes 2 jet with a japanese one because it looks better

to be honest my most prized cart isnt even near the most expensive i have

i think you should get off you high horse wrt English carts, to me Japanese carts are just as collectable, hell i aint never gonna sell the collection so who cares what my stuff is worth

Click to expand...

Tarma:

FACT - Dion offered Shawn nearly 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND) homecarts

Click to expand...

Fact?

What a retard. Go back and read the letter.

One of these days you'll wake up with a nice custom rank. Something Makismo would be proud of.

Get bent Charlie you twat.

Dion said they'd be 80 - 90 individual titles supplied in varying numbers. I did say NEARLY 1,000 carts, probably around 700 - 800 in actuality, IF what was stated was true.

Power gone to your head, btw?

No wonder Shawn restricted your sphere of influence, because we can all see what a petty minded, arrogant, fuck wit you are. When are you and Simone getting married? Is it a full church do or just a registery office for you?

What a stupidass glee glee glee

Tarma:
Get bent Charlie you twat.

Dion said they'd be 80 - 90 individual titles supplied in varying numbers. I did say NEARLY 1,000 carts, probably around 700 - 800 in actuality, IF what was stated was true.

Power gone to your head, btw?

No wonder Shawn restricted your sphere of influence, because we can all see what a petty minded, arrogant, fuck wit you are. When are you and Simone getting married? Is it a full church do or just a registery office for you?

What a stupidass glee glee glee

Click to expand...

What do you think looks better on your profile:

NGF-UK
NGFUK
or unregistered.

wink

Go ahead. Pick one.

Yes John,what you have expressed are my feelings,exactly.

Posted by tarma:
"He constantly dismises the Japanese homecart market as inferior to the English home cart market."

Now,that is a BIG LIE.
I explained that both form of home cart(US and JAP) are collectable items,BUT IF YOU LOOK AT CURRENT PRICES,you will see JAPANESE HOME CARTS are MANY TIMES(with right exceptions)CHEAPER WAY for someone to step into neo geo home carts.

My analysis is NOT an analysis concerning which form of home cart is better to collect compared to other form(thing that would be really dump to make) BUT IT IS an analysis BASED on the prices.

Jason:
it's not a "high horse" of english home carts I'm riding on.
Compare MotW's price in US form and jap form and you will get my point.

Totally right that the majority of collectors prefer japanese home carts instead of US home carts;that won't change the current market situation anyway.

Supply and demand.
Those 2 factors do hold relevance and explain why the japanse home carts prices are lowering.

When are you going to get a life you pathetic little man?

I can just imagine reading mod squad now -

'Pleaaaseee give Tarma a custom rank, oh please, oh please oh please... I'll love you all lots and lots and lots. You can come to the wedding, Simone and I would make you gets of honour'

How sad.

Tarma:
When are you going to get a life you pathetic little man?

I can just imagine reading mod squad now -

Click to expand...

Actually, it's much funnier than that. But you probably wouldn't find it as humorous as FTL or I...

buster_broon:
i with most people who have mentioned it, Simone you totally annoyed me with your Jap carts are like loose mvs carts crap

Click to expand...

Could you quote where I stated it?

In my post I ALWAYS talked about prices.
I know that you can get english home carts if you like but why do you feel the need to take it personally?

My analysis is there to HELP people NOT to be ripped off buying jap home cart.
Do you remeber Tarma selling Magical drop 3 for $625?
WEll,if that buyer would have known better,he would have bought other MINT copies for $500-550.

Simple as that.

Too short:
Kizuna encounter jap is available quite easy nowadays on ebay.
Many of the kizuna carts from Yamatoku did sell for under $600.
I know you paid $700+ but you was paying to have the cart from a TOP seller and in TOP condition.
Service does have a cost.
More,the guide takes care of near mint copies.
So $550-650 is the right range.
If you pay more than $650,other factors are involved.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: FTL ]</small>

FTL:
Could you quote where I stated it?

In my post I ALWAYS talked about prices.
I know that you can get english home carts if you like but why do you feel the need to take it personally?

Click to expand...

Here is the quoted take from the other price thread

FTL:
Gamers should go for jap home carts or,even better,loose mvs carts as said many times.

If you could read,you would see all the home carts prices are updated on regular basis and a lot of home carts collapsed in price.

You may support better your illations.

Click to expand...

to me you have categorised:

English = full mvs kits
Jap carts = loose carts

Simone i wasnt the only member to pick up on this and to honest to be deemed a collector isnt exactly what you pay for a game

if an English only cart collector looks down on my collection because its Jap only then he is an elitist prick - that is the only problem with Neo cart collecting, is having to put up with alot of Elitism

I am proud of my collection and i (again i stress this) chose Jap carts over English ones because they look better, not because of price

once i had specific carts (couple of kof's) i decided that the best option was to get the rest as Japanese and this is due to what charlie mentioned - uniformity

Yes i agree that english carts command more money but how do you define a collector??? - if a member #1 buys garou english for 600usd and another member #2 buys it for 800usd, is member #2 a better more elite collector because he paid more - no

all the new release carts i have bought have been Japanese and again not because of price - since they are the same price, the Jap carts just look better

Simone i have always supported you and the price guide and i still think the job you do is difficult and unrewarding, but recently all this 'english carts stuff' is over the top and way to much frown

"Gamers should go for jap home carts or,even better,loose mvs carts as said many times.

If you could read,you would see all the home carts prices are updated on regular basis and a lot of home carts collapsed in price.

You may support better your illations. "
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You know Jason,I feel like you on the matter,honestly.
But still I agree with MY quoted statements.

I was referring to GAMERS.
And explaining the cheaper way to get into neo geo.
Never I wrote to make a discrimination against japanse home carts collectors.

I'm just looking at the current market where you can buy jap king of fighters series very cheap,as well as Samurai spirits,real bouts and so on.

As I said many times,you can be a jap or US home cart collectors.
But the point there was the price guide to halp prices raise:thing that is not true.

I say it again:taking note of the market does NOT imply discriminations among collectors.
I'm sorry you felt that way,really.

buster_broon:
to me you have categorised:

English = full mvs kits
Jap carts = loose carts

Click to expand...

Oh...kay.

To me it looks like:

English carts = most expensive collection to complete

Japanese homecarts = second most expensive, and far less than english in price total for completion due to the fact that MS2, SW, MS1, Kizuna, and U11 are so damn expensive in English form.

Loose MVS carts are the cheapest.

So if you're just a gmaer, which is the best way to go?

That's what FTL said. LIKE 5 TIMES!

EvilWasabi:

Tarma:
When are you going to get a life you pathetic little man?

I can just imagine reading mod squad now -

Click to expand...

Actually, it's much funnier than that. But you probably wouldn't find it as humorous as FTL or I...

Click to expand...

The only thing I find funny is you weasel...

BTW, I do reacall you saying 'fuck the price guide I want $600 for Overtop' and also asking $550 for MD3 within days of me selling my copy for $625...

You should have a custom rank too -

Hypocrite.

Twat. glee glee glee

Tarma:

EvilWasabi:

Tarma:
When are you going to get a life you pathetic little man?

I can just imagine reading mod squad now -

Click to expand...

Actually, it's much funnier than that. But you probably wouldn't find it as humorous as FTL or I...

Click to expand...

The only thing I find funny is you weasel...

BTW, I do reacall you saying 'fuck the price guide I want $600 for Overtop' and also asking $550 for MD3 within days of me selling my copy for $625...

You should have a custom rank too -

Hypocrite.

Twat. glee glee glee

Click to expand...

How does that make me a hypocrite?

I'm not backing the price guide as a tool for setting prices. I said screw the price guide because it doesn't display the price that I had to pay to get overtop in the first place - which was basically the price I would let go at.

That's the same reason I don't sell TSS for $400. I paid well more than that for it.

A hypocrite would be someone that complains about the price guide while selling everything at the price guide levels.

Kind of like you.