DISC vs CART!
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Galford Forever
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No load times is nice, but I think most of us here want to own exact arcade versions, and the carts give us that. That, and they stopped making CD games, so you can't find some of the newer games. If you're worried about costs, the CD is a nice way to go, but you might consider MVS and a Supergun, which is probably even cheaper.
Galford Forever
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I think I heard from somewhere that CDs supposedly last about 100 years, so you'll die before they do. Unfortunately, you're CD system probably won't last too long. They have some quality issues, from what I understand. That and CD systems don't last very long as a general rule. My Sega CD just died and I took very good care of it 
.
Overall, the carts and cart system will probably be playable longer than the CDs and CD system. The home system is a solid piece of machinery (very well built) and if it does break there are a few places that repair them. Carts are carts, and general stand up to a lot of abuse.
.Overall, the carts and cart system will probably be playable longer than the CDs and CD system. The home system is a solid piece of machinery (very well built) and if it does break there are a few places that repair them. Carts are carts, and general stand up to a lot of abuse.
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Well, CDs have a data life of about 20 - 25 years. A cart has about a similar life... about 25 years, but with proper care could last longer.... The CD will eventually fail due to the dye aging... but you can always make backups before data loss....ah well, both will die eventually,
-Nick
-Nick
Galford Forever
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Originally posted by Galford Forever:
<strong>I think I heard from somewhere that CDs supposedly last about 100 years, so you'll die before they do. Unfortunately, you're CD system probably won't last too long. They have some quality issues, from what I understand. That and CD systems don't last very long as a general rule. My Sega CD just died and I took very good care of it
Overall, the carts and cart system will probably be playable longer than the CDs and CD system. The home system is a solid piece of machinery (very well built) and if it does break there are a few places that repair them. Carts are carts, and general stand up to a lot of abuse.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are very few CD mediums that are rated for 100 year data life, mitsumi is one of the only makers that uses them, and they are not used by a lot of companies... the typcial data life of a CD is 25 years. You brought up a good point, we were not talking about systems before, the laser lens of a cd system will not last forever. Argon in the laser lens is released as the lens ages. As this argon escapes it pits the lens making it impossible for the laser to make a good read of the disk. This is really a problem with laser lens designed before about 1995.
-Nick
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Originally posted by Galford Forever:
<strong>
Really? 20 to 25 years is all? Wow, that sux. I honestly thought it was a lot longer. So most atari games are starting to die about now then? I figrued the Neo games would last much longer than that. Why I am paying all this money for them again...?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, yes and no. Those are assumed data life, not actually numbers. With proper care and handling these carts should last a lot longer, CDs as well... but thats the numbers :o
You are right, though the cart system will deffinetly last longer, the CD system has a lot of moving parts... it is depressing, just take care of your stuffIt should last a long time,
-Nick
Galford Forever
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Originally posted by nruva:
<strong>
There are very few CD mediums that are rated for 100 year data life, mitsumi is one of the only makers that uses them, and they are not used by a lot of companies... the typcial data life of a CD is 25 years. You brought up a good point, we were not talking about systems before, the laser lens of a cd system will not last forever. Argon in the laser lens is released as the lens ages. As this argon escapes it pits the lens making it impossible for the laser to make a good read of the disk. This is really a problem with laser lens designed before about 1995.
-Nick</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for your informative reply! What about Neo carts? Are some of them "middle-aged" then? What cases them to die so soon? I'm worried for my carts
EDIT: It looks like you were writing your reply as I was. Thanks for answering my question.
[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Galford Forever ]</p>
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I guess that means we should all just enjoy our games while they live. *16 years later*, I miss you cartridges... Oh dammit, I love these things, I gotta take a minute to go cry... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[Crying]" /> I'm back, I'll enjoy these forever. Thanks, you made me realize time is of the essence, I gotta go play now.
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Well I hate waving a death clock around... and really the truth of the matter is that they may last a lot longer then that. Over time the data in the chips is lost. Same with a CD, in a CD the dye actually starts to ware away on the surface causing the contents to be lost. I am sure both a CD and a cart can last longer then the proclaimed data life. Keeping them out of temperature extremes, moisture, dust and other dirt, basicly caring for the carts and CDs should prolongue their life.
Many studies have been done on CDs and CD-Rs over the last few years. It seems like many people have been moving to CD as a storage medium, without really knowing how long the CD or even the player will be around. These studies have shown that all disks are different, and although some manufacturers claim that the CDs will last around 100 years, accelerated aging tests have shown that the number is much shorter... around 30-50 for the industries best material, and 5 years for the cheapest... It really depends more on the mastering process of the CD then the materials used. A bad mastered disk will die much sooner then a well manufactured one. And many people are finding that their home burner and software is making backups that aren't good after the 5 year mark... I know I have some CDs that have read errors these days, although they had worked fine about a year ago (and no scrathces on the surface!!! don't ever by Fuji disks)...
So the end result, CDs will probably die before the carts, but not always...
The ROM chips in neo carts also lose data over time, the chips simply wear out with old age, much like the dye on a CD. Arcade vendors for years have used the ROM images we all hate here to fix games that have lost data on one or more roms. So the truth of the matter is, if you love your neo... buy an EPROM burner eventually and start collecting those ROM files so you can do repairs later on to keep your games alive Again though this is not an exact science... 25 - 50 years, and it is different in every chip/cart... Of course here it really matters on the parts used, SNK usually used higher quality Toshiba chips so lets hope 25+ is closer to 35 or 40 years.
Don't worry about it is the bottom line. The CDs can be backed, and the games can be reburned on EPROMs later... This data won't be lost, but you have a good point... play the games now while you can!!!
-Nick
Many studies have been done on CDs and CD-Rs over the last few years. It seems like many people have been moving to CD as a storage medium, without really knowing how long the CD or even the player will be around. These studies have shown that all disks are different, and although some manufacturers claim that the CDs will last around 100 years, accelerated aging tests have shown that the number is much shorter... around 30-50 for the industries best material, and 5 years for the cheapest... It really depends more on the mastering process of the CD then the materials used. A bad mastered disk will die much sooner then a well manufactured one. And many people are finding that their home burner and software is making backups that aren't good after the 5 year mark... I know I have some CDs that have read errors these days, although they had worked fine about a year ago (and no scrathces on the surface!!! don't ever by Fuji disks)...
So the end result, CDs will probably die before the carts, but not always...
The ROM chips in neo carts also lose data over time, the chips simply wear out with old age, much like the dye on a CD. Arcade vendors for years have used the ROM images we all hate here to fix games that have lost data on one or more roms. So the truth of the matter is, if you love your neo... buy an EPROM burner eventually and start collecting those ROM files so you can do repairs later on to keep your games alive
Again though this is not an exact science... 25 - 50 years, and it is different in every chip/cart... Of course here it really matters on the parts used, SNK usually used higher quality Toshiba chips so lets hope 25+ is closer to 35 or 40 years. Don't worry about it is the bottom line. The CDs can be backed, and the games can be reburned on EPROMs later... This data won't be lost, but you have a good point... play the games now while you can!!!
-Nick
Michael Yagami
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The cart is your best be for arcade perfect translation without a doubt. Carts can also take a hell of a lot more damage than a CD. Plus the NEO cart is just so damn massive! It's just plain badass! 
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That makes me feel better, I gotta take REALLY good care of those carts. Well, I'm gonna skip school (and exams) to go build a clean room to keep my games in. Later guys! <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" />
RiotoftheBlood
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As I say before, play your damn game more often and take care them like your children.
I'll not spend lots $$ into Neo because it's just a damn game.
$1000 + for one fuckin game and it'll eventually die after 20 years.....
Neo game isn't diamond or gold
I just laugh at those "collectors" <img src="graemlins/tickled.gif" border="0" alt="[Tickled]" />
I'll not spend lots $$ into Neo because it's just a damn game.
$1000 + for one fuckin game and it'll eventually die after 20 years.....
Neo game isn't diamond or gold
I just laugh at those "collectors" <img src="graemlins/tickled.gif" border="0" alt="[Tickled]" />
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The 25-years lifemark is concerned to last the 25 years of use. If you keep a game inside his proper box during one year, it will work the same way a year later. This 25-years mark is intended to specify the years that the cart can work without problems, even after that age, the carts can function but not quite the same properly. I guess it's a matter of carts/CD's special care. If you scratch your cd's all the way up... It can last for second only. 
C
Caris Nautilus
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This is not even a debate, CD's are better.
Load times are due to lack of ram, good enough ram would solve this, most Dreamcast naomi ports have no loading.
Some games are impossible on carts, as they would cost thousands of dollars to make (RPG's and games with lot's of Cinemas for one).
CD's are dirt cheap to make, they will last forever (at least until your long gone).
"Carts" or games on memory chips, are better for arcade games, but this seems to be getting phased out on the new systems like Naomi, the entire games are on CD's, which makes new games cost a lot less for arcade ops, and get loaded into system ram for instant uptime (like CPS3).
A cart can probably last hundreds of years if properly taken care of (again at least until your dead, it doesn't really matter after that), the thing is the memorey chips may lose their information after a certain period of time, regardless of how well it was taken care of. Since it's not an optical medium.
[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Drift King EX ]</p>
Load times are due to lack of ram, good enough ram would solve this, most Dreamcast naomi ports have no loading.
Some games are impossible on carts, as they would cost thousands of dollars to make (RPG's and games with lot's of Cinemas for one).
CD's are dirt cheap to make, they will last forever (at least until your long gone).
"Carts" or games on memory chips, are better for arcade games, but this seems to be getting phased out on the new systems like Naomi, the entire games are on CD's, which makes new games cost a lot less for arcade ops, and get loaded into system ram for instant uptime (like CPS3).
A cart can probably last hundreds of years if properly taken care of (again at least until your dead, it doesn't really matter after that), the thing is the memorey chips may lose their information after a certain period of time, regardless of how well it was taken care of. Since it's not an optical medium.
[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Drift King EX ]</p>
RiotoftheBlood
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Neo-Geo-wise, to me, carts are better than CDs. No loading times plus games exclusive to cart systems and the sheer size of the carts make it the better choice (for me, at least). Don't rule the CDs out, however. Quite a few of the games for Neo-Geo CD have arranged soundtracks, which is an extra treat for the Neo-Geo gamer on a budget (that, and some of them have extras). So, to put it simply:
For Neo-Geo carts, it's all about the gameplay.
For Neo-Geo CDs, it's all about the music.
For Neo-Geo carts, it's all about the gameplay.
For Neo-Geo CDs, it's all about the music.
Bah. Neo will live for a very long time. Thanks to the internet and massive databases, all the games you could hope to have will be available. Feel free to flame me for talking about roms, but they will outlast the games themselves.
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What's the point about discs and carts? The people that are most concerned are the people who are paying huge $$$$$ for the shit, which most of them just sit on a shelf anyway. Whether they work or not, as long as they look good on people's shelves most of them won't care/notice.