... that Playmore/SNK will ever not make a game using neo hardware and make a game specifically for, say, the PS2 with high resolution characters like Guilty Gear X2? I mean, I love the games but I don't think I'm the only one who thinks Playmore (and Capcom) need to make the jump to high resolution characters. It seems like the neo hardware is just keeping creativity down.
Do you think...
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Q
qube
Guest
angry spock 
oh_no very_ang loco annoyed shame
oh_no very_ang loco annoyed shame
Mark of the Wolves
mullet bullet
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2002
- Posts
- 6,984
Supposedly there is a 3D KoF being developed for the PS2. Atleast thats what Ben Herman said.
SNK/Playmore has so mastered the Neo Geo hardware they can really focus on bringing forth excellent gameplay. Sure GGXX is nice and flashy, works on the younger set aka my 18 yr old bro, but I'll take any KOF or SamSho over it any day.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Posts
- 4,071
it's not.
Wow, for those of you being immature I'd appreciate it if you just didn't post in this topic. And to BIG BEAR, I don't see why it should matter if I'm posting this at a Neo Geo enthusiast board. We all like Neo Geo here, so I dont see why that would keep people from wanting their games to look better. And I think other people are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying change the game to be like Guilty Gear X, I'm saying change the graphics to be as crisp as Guilty Gear X. I wouldn't want Playmore to throw out the KoF formula for something cheap and fast. Imagine KoF in high resolution with street fighter III animation. That would be amazing and I don't see how anyone could disagree.
I just don't get why many don't seem to want any graphical updates to their games. Sure playing a game that looks like current Playmore fighting games is nostalgic and great, but after a while it kind of bothers me that companies like them and Capcom don't make the extra effort to overhaul the graphics after a DECADE. I'm sorry but I dont want to be playing the same game forever. Many of you guys seem that you don't want fancy 2d graphics because it would compromise gameplay. Well, it doesn't have to. And you know, I've been lurking here for a while and seen so many topics complaining about the graphics (sprites are too small, animation is missing, backgrounds don't look good enough, recycling KoF characters for SvC:C, etc.) that I figured many of you would actually want a better visual package to go along with a great playing game. I guess not. If that's the case have fun playing almost the same KoF every year. Because I know many of you don't even think of the past 3 or so years worth of KoF were true sequels, but little updates that don't warrant a purchase if you have the prior version.
<small>[ June 11, 2003, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Nick ]</small>
I just don't get why many don't seem to want any graphical updates to their games. Sure playing a game that looks like current Playmore fighting games is nostalgic and great, but after a while it kind of bothers me that companies like them and Capcom don't make the extra effort to overhaul the graphics after a DECADE. I'm sorry but I dont want to be playing the same game forever. Many of you guys seem that you don't want fancy 2d graphics because it would compromise gameplay. Well, it doesn't have to. And you know, I've been lurking here for a while and seen so many topics complaining about the graphics (sprites are too small, animation is missing, backgrounds don't look good enough, recycling KoF characters for SvC:C, etc.) that I figured many of you would actually want a better visual package to go along with a great playing game. I guess not. If that's the case have fun playing almost the same KoF every year. Because I know many of you don't even think of the past 3 or so years worth of KoF were true sequels, but little updates that don't warrant a purchase if you have the prior version.
<small>[ June 11, 2003, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Nick ]</small>
People talk about Guilty Gear X resolutiona nd Street Fighter III 3rd animation, and I'm just not floored by either of them. Both are good games, but nothing to soil your pants over.
I'm still impressed every time I boot up Samurai Shodown II. How a game made in 1994 still looks better than any released in the past 4 years is incredible.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2001
- Posts
- 8,431
EXACTLY EW,we know what the Neo geo is capable of doing and all we want and expect is the best damnit!
There is NO excuse for recycling sprites,lack of accuracy and creativity!
I tell you this though,Terry was robbed by Playmore in this upcoming SvCC..It's stuff like this that detratcs from why SNK was special.
The lead characters featured should be Terry and Ryu.
KYO ownz the KOF already and we're going to see him once again in KOF 2003.
This is unacceptable if Playmore wants to stick around.I only want what's best!!!
That SNK lineup should have Terry 1st,Kyo (if they must) , Iroi (If they must) and Mr.Karate then a lineup of eight completely different fighters which includes Shiki and whomever NOT Choi,Kasumi,Ryo and Earthquake either.
-BB
<small>[ June 11, 2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: BIG BEAR ]</small>
There is NO excuse for recycling sprites,lack of accuracy and creativity!
I tell you this though,Terry was robbed by Playmore in this upcoming SvCC..It's stuff like this that detratcs from why SNK was special.
The lead characters featured should be Terry and Ryu.
KYO ownz the KOF already and we're going to see him once again in KOF 2003.
This is unacceptable if Playmore wants to stick around.I only want what's best!!!
That SNK lineup should have Terry 1st,Kyo (if they must) , Iroi (If they must) and Mr.Karate then a lineup of eight completely different fighters which includes Shiki and whomever NOT Choi,Kasumi,Ryo and Earthquake either.
-BB
<small>[ June 11, 2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: BIG BEAR ]</small>
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Posts
- 4,071
ever noticed, that the graphic styles of the ggx charas, the bgs and the lightning effects DON'T fit together? prolly not.
it's just plain UGLY and the bgs are BORING.
ah ... and btw :
it's just plain UGLY and the bgs are BORING.
ah ... and btw :
I'm not talking about how good the games may be, I'm talking about how much better they look. And you know, SS2 may look great to this day but to say it looks better than any fighting game released in the past four years is obvious bias. You have to look at this objectively. You just can't deny that SFIII and GGX are TECHNICALLY better looking games. You can't deny it. It's there, man. The technology doesn't lie.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2001
- Posts
- 20,462
The point is not the graphical update, the point is the drastic change in gameplay. Hi-res and fighters don't go together very well IMO. The guilty gear games are a good example for that, visually appealing, but they have no soul. And that's what I want, a soulful, tech-oriented, combo-packed, x-tra deep fighting game, not a graphics show. I don't sit there and count animation frames, nor do I complain all the time about badly-looking backs or fuzzy sprites, I buy my games for playing, and I think I I've played enough GGX to say that I wasn't really impressed by its playing mechanics.
All this crap talk about "nostalgia" or bad graphics is quite annoying. Do you want to know why some of the newer Neo games look like shit? Because some artists did a sloppy job, that's all, it's all about skill and dedication, not only about power and Megahurtzzz. And if there are enough skilled ppl at one spot, I guarantee you that they could come up with a Neo game that would knock you off yer socks, bro. Even in 2003.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Posts
- 4,071
supergoose79:
ever noticed, that the graphic styles of the ggx charas, the bgs and the lightning effects DON'T fit together? prolly not.
it's just plain UGLY and the bgs are BORING.
ah ... and btw :
Resolution-wise, GGX is great. Otherwise, it's garbage. The GG series has always been just that. It's not bias. Just my opinion.
Animation-wise, SFIII3rd is great. Otherwise, it's style over substance. And the reason we all notice the level of detail is "beauty by comparison" - as the rest of the game, with exception to the music, is so dry and uninspired, that we have to notice the animation at least.
Sure, SNK could have made a game that was a complete package, and perfect, but so far, no company has done such, and the closest we have seen to perfection is SSII, with Vampire Savior close behind. That's just my opinion. Call it biased, but then... isn't every opinion just a bias...
Can I get an Amen?!?!? PREACH BROTHER!
Seriously though, this topic probably shouldn't be in General Discussion. On the upside if you talk to anyone who knows anything about the people running Playmore you'll hear all sorts of rumors (that like all the previous ones, will come true) that Playmore is moving forward to new hardware. It'll get announced, these boards will light on fire, people will bitch and the fans will probably separate.
Some people like most Neo games because they're 16bit and pay homage to the era of videogames that they love, others just play some Neo games because they're fun as hell to play, despite the graphics being a bit "inferior" by today's standards.
Ahh well, at least when they move to this new hardware, they'll have to redraw all the sprites for the next KOF when it debutes on that system. loco
How many times am I going to have to say I'm NOT talking about GAMEPLAY. Just graphics. You don't notice the animation in SFIII because the gameplay is "dry", you notice it because it's damn good. Stop dismissing better graphics because you may not like the game. You're getting farther from my point everytime you say that.
And yes people I'm aware they're dealing with Neo hardware that's completely outdated, you don't have to remind me of this. Which is why I said, in my original post "Do you think that Playmore/SNK will ever NOT make a game using neo hardware and make a game specifically for, say, the PS2 with high resolution characters". Let's keep this a nice discussion and try not to make a fool out of anyone when we know we cant.
Hey, don't be so serious that you can't read the points being made.
I said that people praise these resolution in Guilty Gear X because the rest of the game sucks, os of course the resolution stands out by comparison. But in reality, the resolution is just unimpressive. It's unnecessary at that level, as really, it would look just as good in a lower res as long as the character design is deep. For example, Ninja Masters. Every character looks awesome in that game, but is the resoltuion 640x480? No. Is Ninja Masters better than Guilty Gear X? Yes. Hands down. Because it's a complete package. But sure, the resolution isn't as sharp. Point is, sharper resolution doesn't impress me at all unless I start playing games through a microscope.
Same could be said for animation. You can add all the frames you want - it's just more work for the artists. And without a good sense of direction, that animation would be a waste of effort. Yet, for the level of animation displayed in say... kizuna encounter, the job is done beautifully.
So "technologically superior" really ends up a euphemism for "game that cannot stand on its own." While a great game is simply a great game.
I said that people praise these resolution in Guilty Gear X because the rest of the game sucks, os of course the resolution stands out by comparison. But in reality, the resolution is just unimpressive. It's unnecessary at that level, as really, it would look just as good in a lower res as long as the character design is deep. For example, Ninja Masters. Every character looks awesome in that game, but is the resoltuion 640x480? No. Is Ninja Masters better than Guilty Gear X? Yes. Hands down. Because it's a complete package. But sure, the resolution isn't as sharp. Point is, sharper resolution doesn't impress me at all unless I start playing games through a microscope.
Same could be said for animation. You can add all the frames you want - it's just more work for the artists. And without a good sense of direction, that animation would be a waste of effort. Yet, for the level of animation displayed in say... kizuna encounter, the job is done beautifully.
So "technologically superior" really ends up a euphemism for "game that cannot stand on its own." While a great game is simply a great game.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Posts
- 4,071
did i talk about gameplay? DID I?
seems like you don't want to read serious answers ...
btw : EW is right.
I wouldn't say that people are impressed by the resolution in GGX because the game is bad, I'd say they're impressed with the resolution because the game looks awesome because of it. Thats why most game review sites/mags have review sections for Graphics, Sound, Gameplay, Presentation, etc.
As for the game sucking? I don't think it does at all, but like you said its an opinion. It was posted in another thread how unbalnaced the game is because of Venom, meanwhile KOF98 is insanely unbalanced with Goro, the Ikari's, Terry, Iori, etc. There are tons of cheesy infinites in KOF97 and yet I don't hear complaints about those games.
That said GGX is damn fun to play, its a refreshing change of pace from the Capcom or SNK way of playing a 2D fighter, and overall its just damn fun to play. Lets not forget Arc System Works is made up of a lot of ex-SNK employees. That said, I still play KOF more than I play GGX, because I do prefer the gameplay in KOF, its more refined, hell its been through 9 revisions, GGX has been through 3. Still if you're talking about graphical preferences, GGX beats any KOF any day of the week, hands down.
GGX has its own style, its more like an Anime than something Capcom or SNK has put out. When people say they want SNK games w/ GGX graphics, they don't necessarily mean in that style, just in a higher resolution which lets them showcase more detail. Plus new hardware allows for more effects, better use of colors and gradients, shading, and other things.
Bull, more frames of animation equals a much smoother game. OF COURSE YOU NEED DESIGN TO TELL YOU WHICH MOVES NEED MORE ANIMATION THAN OTHERS. SF3 has this in spades, the game is by far and away the most beautifully animated 2D game ever created. It just moves so much nicer than ANYTHING I've seen. To compare it to Kizuana would be laughable, SF3 looks eons better than Kizuana could ever hope to, the sprites are almost the same size (if not SF3's sprites being bigger) except the SF3 sprites have more detail in them AND they have more animation.
You wanna think differently, go ahead I ain't gonna stop you. But don't dilude yourself for a second by saying that Playmore can survive on the MVS. You know as well as I do they have to appeal to a larger audience of gamers to survive, they didn't do it last time and look where they ended up and look where Capcom is.
And even if we have differing opinions it would be dilusional to think that the overwhelming majority of "mainstream gamers" (the people who are going to make Playmore's console ventures a success or not) would prefer the Neo's 16bit style compared to SF3's animation or GGX2's graphics.
The whole damn point of the argument is to say that if Playmore could combine the gameplay engines/elements and the character designs they already have with new and modern graphics they'd catapult to being the premiere fighting game developer that has exists today - and they'd actually make money doing it.
Tenshokyaku
King's Dry Cleaner
- Joined
- May 4, 2003
- Posts
- 397
Whoa...
I've noticed that the sheer MENTION of any higher-end system gets you ripped pretty hard in this place. I guess when Playmore finally makes the jump to these next-gen systems, we will all have the answers we are looking for. Until then, what good does it do to argue over speculation?
I've noticed that the sheer MENTION of any higher-end system gets you ripped pretty hard in this place. I guess when Playmore finally makes the jump to these next-gen systems, we will all have the answers we are looking for. Until then, what good does it do to argue over speculation?
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Posts
- 4,071
hello? spock
ok let me break it down for you :
sprites :
not too much details, but overall ok.
bgs :
they ARE boring. who the fuck would want 'dead' high res bgs? (i also think, that they aren't of the same quality as the sprites)
visual effects (fireballs and such) :
they DON'T fit in there. the sprites and bgs are solid and the transparency & the colors of the effects just DONT fit in there. it looks like shit. simple as that.
make a NICE game and i'll have a closer look at it, but ggx still looks like shit.
<small>[ June 11, 2003, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: supergoose79 ]</small>
I do think that SNK should go to using higher res sprites. Especially on next-gen systems. I was playing KOF:Evolution and the low res sprites looked totaly out of place against the 3d backgrounds. Fun game to play the character sprites just look like shit compared to the background.