Fictional Suicide Batteries on CPS boards?

Right, so heres a weird one!
A friend of mine has several CPS boards. I told him about this whole "Suicide Battery" thing, and he insists that its not true!
Well, I have shown him the sites that deal with it, and he still insisted that no CPS boards in the UK are affected by the problem?

So, as you can imagine, we tossed this back and fourth for a while.
Then he says, "OK I'll prove it!"
So, he gets his Vampire Savior CPS board and takes it apart, and removes the battery!!!!
OK, so dead board right?
So, we leave it out all evening, and then put it back in, presto! Works fine???

Of course, I say, "OK thats obviously the exception to the rule"

Well, no wanting to miss the chance to make me look like an arse, he has since tried it with quite a few of his other boards, including an SF Zero, and a MvsC, and it has not affected any of them??
He even left one out for 24 hours?
So whats the deal?

Does anyone actually have first hand experience of a board dying?

Or could this be something that Capcom stopped doing, and just didn't tell anyone?

I would appreciate any thoughts on this subject, as I am going to buy a MvsC off this bloke!

You sure he pulled out the battery or that there isn't another one on the board? I don't know enough to comment technically on it....but I would think that people and Capcom wouldn't "make-up" stories on this issue. I thought though that the whole "Suicide Battery" was on CPS-2 boards not CPS-1. I am not 100% certain on that one though....I hope somewhere I might of helped with this post......

Don't believe him. The suicide batteries are a real thing, although its possible that the chip holding the decryption key maitains that key for a short time after having the battery removed. I've seen and heard of many CPS2 boards dying from the loss of power to the decryption chip, and the CPS Shock page carefully documented this situation as well . . .

I think it all depends on what interval the board checks for the decryption key. It was originally thought that you had to use a helper battery to keep power while you put the new one in, but now it seems well known that you can just simply swap.

Brent

This is one case where I would actually want a bootleg PCB, as I got to see some CPS-2 bootlegs in Hong Kong that were set up to get around this annoying feature. Some were authentic CPS-2 board, though, that had been modified, while others appeared to be scratch jobs.

I know a couple people that have had their pcbs die from removing the battery.

The CPS-2 game boards are protected by a system that uses encrypted program ROM's. We believe the key data for the decryption of these ROM's is stored in low power S-RAM located inside one of the onboard custom chips. When the game board is switched off or disconnected from the main board, these custom chips are supplied by a 3,6v lithium battery. The average life span of this battery is around five to six years. Once the voltage of this battery is below 2v, the stored encryption key will be lost. The condition of this battery is not measurable due to the fact that lithium batteries will hold their voltage almost constant until the end of their life.

What color was the casing for the vampire savior? Do the games still work?

I find it hihgly improbable that he has found a way to make the games work without the batteries.

So ideally the battery should be swapped while the board is powered up right??

Note. Do not be concerned about the board having no power while swapping batteries. I have swapped batteries like this with a 100% success rate. CPS-2 game boards can stay alive about one hour without power (I have tested this) so you have plenty of time without rushing.
http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/suicide.html

The Battery he pulled out was probably the waffer one for high scores ect.

[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: Drift King EX ]

That clears things up tremendously...
I gather that it's important to to keep these boards active as opposed to letting them sit in some warehouse for a year or two.Those custom chips rely on some source of power constantly...If not the main board it would appear that it relies on the battery so before purchasing one of these boards that may have been sitting around in a Vendors shop it look like it may be a good idea to change the battery after receiving and testing it out.
Thanks for that.Good Info.
-BB

hmmmm,
OK, well, I'm still a bit confused!
The battery in the VS board was cylindrical, with a soldered wire at each end, not like a CR2032 in a DC's VMU, although he said he's done it with a SF zero, and that had a different type of battery in it, I presume a flat type?
He has some green CPS 2's and a couple of Blue ones. I think the Green ones are Japanese, arent they?
The VS was Green, like the MXvsC that I'm possibly going to buy <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
He's so convinced that "suicide batteries" dont exist, that he'll gladly take the battery out of any of his boards to prove me wrong <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> I, on the other hand think he's mad to chance it! But having watched him remove it from the VS, and yes we searched the board, it is the only battery we could find.
So, is it possible that the "suicide battery" is hidden and we missed it? Or are their more than one?
Hmmmmm,
Right, he has the folowing games!
Vampire Savior
X-men Vs Capcom
Marvel Super Heroes
and a few others
So can anyone post a picture of the location of the suicide battery on the board of one of these games (In case we did take out the wrong one?), then I'll show him the post, and it'll be like red rag to a bull, so he'll be happy to remove it and leave it out overnight!

Metal Slug: Go here, it will answer all of your questions <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/suicide.html

Thanks Rain,
The site I showed him said that if power is lost for a second, then the bard is toast!
But even the CPSshock site's estimate of an hour is erring on the side of caution I think!
He has left one overnight and replaced it the following morning! (In an SF Zero I think)

Although if, as MVSHolic says they do hold the info for a period after power is lost, then it would explain this?
So I guess the sites that say if you lose power for a second its Game over, are just over-reacting?

Perhaps it varies, board to board?
Well, it must do, as my own experience will testify!

Metal Slug, here is the ULTIMATE guide to all Capcom arcade games:
http://www.arcadeflyers.com/strider/capcom_list.html

It has a wealth of information about Capcom arcade pcbs, including dip settings, battery info, screenshots, jamma info, and much more (VS has only one suicide battery as shown on the big chart on the main page). I've referred to this site MANY MANY times when considering purchasing many of Capcom's older classic pcbs.

BTW you may want to save this page to your HDD on the outside chance that it is taken down, never hurts to be safe.

I avoid the pcbs with suicide batteries (some CPS1, all CPS2 and CPS3) just because I don't want the hassle of having to continually replace the battery to keep them alive (every few years). Others here have no problems with the process (Arakon, mvsholic, etc.) and thats cool too . . . just depends on what you are willing to do to maintain your collection. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek2.gif" border="0">

Our AvP board at the office seems to have died a battery death...if your skeptical pal can make my board live again without replacing the battery, I'd like to see it! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

After looking at BioMotor_Unitron's post, it seems that there's good news. Authentic CPS2 boards that are modified to get rid of this feature? I was thinking... what if the board's roms were reburned in a PRE-DECRYPTED format. The decrypted data would go to the S-RAM with no encryption key, AFAIK.

Swapping the battery isn't for everyone... as CPS2Shock says, one requirement is "The nerves to do it".

Originally posted by Dan Elektro:
<STRONG>Our AvP board at the office seems to have died a battery death...if your skeptical pal can make my board live again without replacing the battery, I'd like to see it! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Click to expand...

speaking of capcom games what capcom game do these pictures remind you of:











[ October 21, 2001: Message edited by: mvsholic ]

mvsholic: Those pics reminds me of strider.

doughboy: It would be extremely hard to swap the battery with the power on because of the angles you would have to work with to desolder the battery and resolder the new one in. You probably have to suspend both boards upside down so the solder wouldn't get everywhere.

Dan Elektro: All hope for your board is not lost, you could find a distributor( which are very hard people to deal with if your a private collector ) to return the board to capcom ( capcom will only deal with distributors when it comes to their arcade hardware ) pay around 110 dollar for repairs and shipping both ways to have your board revive all this providing you HAVE NOT opened up the casing and wait about a month for it to come back, those bastards at capcom can tell if you opened the casing. But since these boards go for around 140 dollars if you can find one it may be more economical to buy a working one. If you haven't opened it and have no plans to repair it I'll buy it from you for 20 dollars

I too would be reminded of Strider after seeing such pics.

Originally posted by mvsholic:
<STRONG>speaking of capcom games what capcom game do these pictures remind you of:

[ October 21, 2001: Message edited by: mvsholic ]</STRONG>

Click to expand...

Hmmm, I agree with Mainman, Strider springs to mind, what is it?

mvsholic: Although I know you said capcom it reminds me of the sega game shadow dancer also, minus the dog.

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: mainman ]

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: mainman ]

Those who posted Strider are correct.
It's jokingly called Strider 1.5. The real name is Cannon Dancer. Developed by the Strider 1 team and Mitchell (puzloop etc) and distributed by Atlus. Pick it up if you can it's a good game. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Arcade only.