2D revival

Seeing as Neo Geo is now about to get SNKvsCAPCOM, would it not be a good moment for third party companies who have never had any input to come onboard? I mean Neo Geo is now undoubtedly the king and standard-bearer of traditional 2D gaming. We will soon see Ken and Ryu on the Neo Geo, and might it not be time to see other companies revisting old games - and not just taking the 3D route? It could be so exiting, and so viable - I mean - Capcom have got one foot through the door - why not go all the way? I know it is over-optimistic, but why not? If playmore is making money, there's money to be made right?

I wish man, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Most ppl that are not Neo Heads only play 2-D these days on their GBAs, and generally scoff at any 2-D game on a home system. But it's nice to dream.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: MegaDrive 20XX ]</small>

I doubt it I mean its hard enough trying to convince non-neo owners to sit down and play a game of samurai shodown with you "ugh its 2d its therefore crap" etc..

'96 has long gone frown

As an example of the 2D revival, view point will be released on GBA. Good new!
2D has never died completely, it's just that during a moment people were impressed by the brand new 3D concept and all the kind of games were adapted to suit the third dimension. Europe is still in this mood (not hardcore players hopefully) but you just have to look arcadia magazine to see how many 2D success there are in Japan:shooters,fighters ans many more.
I'm not worried about the 2D because ,like with cars, pleasure doesn't come with technology.

I feal you man... most of the people I work with thank God, are all 2d fans.

robert:
As an example of the 2D revival, view point will be released on GBA. Good new!

Click to expand...

.... heuuu even if it's a NEOGEO game, it's based on a 3D concept!
It's typicaly the kind of exemple not to mention here.
lol

Scalpinou!
Alors moi je particpe un peu et tu me casses la barraque. Viewpoint c'est pas de la 3D pour moi, blasphème pas s'il te plaît.

As sad as it is, 2D will probably not be interesting at all anymore to companies. Just like when the colour Tv came out.....nobody wanted black and white sets. And even though it would be nice dreaming that it will happen, we will sadly have to accept the fact that 2D is now Retro....


---------------------------------------------
....and the small prince wept with grief

Now I know that's not true. You see, 3D offers a slant at gameplay - 2D another. 3D is not superior to 2D - in the sense that 3D no longer represents the pushing of boundries like it used to, in a time when 2D was more the norm.
2D is not Retro at all. There are different mechanics involved here that are not found in 3D - its just a different take on gaming. I mean, is chess retro now people play video games?
Its one thing that 3D grabs the mass market appeal, and quite another to say that 2D has reached a dead end. Is black and white photography more dated than colour? Back when all pictures where taken in black and white, colour came along and stole the show. Because it was technologically relevant. Nowadays taking pictures in either are aesthetically acceptable, as they are different expressions within the same field. The same with 3D and 2D - the fact is, 3D and 2D are different expressions within the same field - and technology no longer has anytrhing to do with it. Its just a question of taste. I think there is space and a place for all genres.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: DevilRedeemed ]</small>

DevilRedeemed:
Now I know that's not true. You see, 3D offers a slant at gameplay - 2D another. 3D is not superior to 2D - in the sense that 3D no longer represents the pushing of boundries like it used to, in a time when 2D was more the norm.
2D is not Retro at all. There are different mechanics involved here that are not found in 3D - its just a different take on gaming.

Click to expand...

I totaly agree!
That's why it gebins to be seen any 3D games with a 2D scrolling. That way, the graphisms can be displayed with the best light effects and the game play can be really good.
... But I have to say that the metal slug style or the guilty gear style is really great! 2D style will never die. But the market is full of stupid people that doesn't want to recognise that a 2D based game can be good. How many people did you meet that were saying at first that 2D based games were out of date and that, after they played the game, say it was damned good?
I met so many wink

PS: Désolé Robert wink
Mais View point est un jeu 3D. D'ailleurs le moteur du jeu est un moteur 3D! Tu arrives bien à dessiner de la 3D sur une feuille de papier!? Alors pourquoi ne pourrait on pas faire un jeu 3D avec une NEO?
Le problème est une question de capacité, c'est tout, c'est pourquoi les consoles nouvelle génération excellent en 3D. Les concepteurs de la machine on directement implanter un moteur 3D à l'intérieur (une bibliothèque d'utilisation) et y on associé des capacité techniques permettant des rendus sublimes.
Bien que la neo soit une console à forte dominante 2D, tu dois admettre que view point est un jeu 3D... un moteur 3D a été spécialement fait pour se jeu. Ne colle pas une étiquette '2D' sur la neo, ou alors je colle une étiquette '3D' sur metal slug 3 version PS2 wink

Allez bon courage à toi, fait gaffe à tes fesses et ou tu met les pieds... la ou tu es il fait pas bon traîner dehors wink

It's nice to dream but I'm afraid if most game companies want to make an arcade game, they'll likely use one of the 3D boards like Naomi rather than the Neo.

Most companies won't feel that they'll be generating as much revenue on the MVS, unless the game gets ported to one of the major platforms.

It's a nice thought, to be sure, but in reality any company will see profits on a PS2, not the MVS.

Argentina94:
It's nice to dream but I'm afraid if most game companies want to make an arcade game, they'll likely use one of the 3D boards like Naomi rather than the Neo.

Most companies won't feel that they'll be generating as much revenue on the MVS, unless the game gets ported to one of the major platforms.

It's a nice thought, to be sure, but in reality any company will see profits on a PS2, not the MVS.

Click to expand...

Naomi, just isnt a 3-d board... it's more of an all-purpose, arcade board. as seen with CvS 2, and GGXX.. it can also push 2-d sprites... imagine what a FULL 2-d hand-drawn game would be like on the naomi..

2D rulez!!! Unfortionatley, 3D captivates more people and makes more $$$ (at least in the US). My favorite systems are the NES, SNES and Neo-Geo(Thanks again Falk). Still most of my friends look at me playing my Neo-Geo and say it looks shitty. Everyone loves PS2, X-Box and GC. I am the only person that I know in my area that plays 2D games at all.

2D takes longer and is more expensive so a new company would naturally pick 3D as it is faster to make, you need less people and is cheaper.

don't forget teh romz (and the port)

but it's still a great step to see some popular franchies (sp) on the NEO. it will attract new gamers to the system for sure and this will lead to more 2D demand gradually by time (we still have 5+ more years, don't we?)

<small>[ March 26, 2003, 03:59 AM: Message edited by: k'_127 ]</small>

Diavle18:
2D takes longer and is more expensive so a new company would naturally pick 3D as it is faster to make, you need less people and is cheaper.

Click to expand...

Actually I think that the opposite is true.
2D is fairly easy to do. Skilled 2D programmers are ten-a-penny nowardays, but decent 3D programmers (and artists) are harder to come by.

Think about it - what would be harder to do, build a polygon model in 3D space and animate it bit-by-bit, or draw a 2D sprite and animate it in the same way as a cartoon?

2D animation may seem like a lot of work, because the same sprite needs to be redrawn over and over - but that's peanuts compared to animating a 3D model, even if you do use motion capture.

Here's a quick example. The first Mortal Kombat was made by 5 guys - that's all. MKA took 50 people to make - obviously that's more people to employ, more wages to pay and therefore more expensive.

The reason there are so many 3D games out nowardays is because they sell better.

It seems that you have forgotten that there are 2D artists needed for modern games due to textures - where do you think they come from (other than digitised & compressed photo images). People draw images in 2D to be placed onto a 3D object (simplified).

Personally I belive that 2D games, on the hole, are a lot harder than their 3D equivalent. Take any 3D fighting game and knock it up to the hardest dificulty setting then play a 2D fighter on hardest dificulty setting and compare how long it takes to beat the opponent.

People as a whole do not like to loose. Modern 3D games are far FAR easier than any 2D games from the past and what has made them more popular is how easy games have become. Even long RPG's are still relativly easy, its just that they take a longer time to complete.

Basically, 2D and 3D have their own place for their respective fans.

Posted by Gazado
It seems that you have forgotten that there are 2D artists needed for modern games due to textures - where do you think they come from (other than digitised & compressed photo images). People draw images in 2D to be placed onto a 3D object (simplified).

Click to expand...

Yep, exactly, with 3D games you need both 2D AND 3D artists.
Whereas with a 2D game you just need 2D artists.
So you need more artists and therefore more staff for a 3D game - so the development cost will be higher.

Posted by Gazado
Personally I belive that 2D games, on the hole, are a lot harder than their 3D equivalent. Take any 3D fighting game and knock it up to the hardest dificulty setting then play a 2D fighter on hardest dificulty setting and compare how long it takes to beat the opponent.

Click to expand...

Yea, fair enough, I'll agree with that. Though a games difficulty has nothing to do with how much it costs to make. Generally speaking games have gotten a lot easier in the past few years - however the cost of developing them has skyrocketed. Games Like Resi Evil, DMC and Chaos Legion cost several millions of dollars to make.
'Old School' 2D games cost less than half a million. (thats just a rough figure -naturally there will be some exceptions).

I'm as much a fan of 2D as anyone here. I love my 2D fighting games and side-scrolling shooters, and I think there is a lot to be said for really well-drawn sprites (like Metal Slug).
I'm just pointing out that 3D games do cost quite a lot more to make.

Why developers are sticking rigidly with 3D despite the increased costs (and therefore tighter profit margins), when they could go back to 2D and save a wad of cash (and time) on game development is beyond me though.........