How to put snk back on top

Mr. Wizard

Angel's Love Slave
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Ok folks the Wizard has been brain storming a bit over the demise of SNK and what could put it back on top of the gaming industry. I believe that I have found an answer that could allow SNK to crush the gaming industry. I know this is a bit much but its worth reading I promiss. Besides If what I have to say sucks I'm sure you'll let me know. But in the end it makes since.

Now first we must ask what was the cause of SNKs death to find out what could bring it back. We all know the rumers and bits of truth floating out there on the net and I will attempt to point out the more important ones. There are several reasons SNK went under. I believe that it started with the release of the home system. Why you ask? Well it all comes down to money. At the time of its release who could afford the price. I mean come on, its only till this last couple of years that a average kid could say "mom, dad, I want a Neo Geo" and the parents be able to afford it, and thats used. What I'm saying is that the neo geo's customer base was basicly adults and rich kids only, and that made for a small customer base. Which means you can't expect the neo geo aes to compete with the dirt cheap home video game systems of the day. Only know in the last few years are home video game systems arriving at the used price of a neo geo aes. Ok, now after the release of the home system, which gave no relief to price for middle class customers, we start to see customers seaking alternatives. People who can't afford the home system are now desparatly seaking a way to get a neo geo at home. What are they gonna do? What are the alternatives? Heres a few: The MVS cabinate and used games, The MVS mother board and/super gunn. Sure they are expensive to start but cheaper in the long run. Next we have the competitors offering their home system ports and of coarse the cheapest of all, MAME. I would say that these were several major reason contributing to what I call the ceaser affect. SNK made its own destruction by deciding to stick with something to long. They handed their competition the knives to kill them with. In the end SNK was screaming etu bruté. You simply can't survive with one product supporting you. SNK exploded into the cutting edge sceen with the release of the MVS system. It offered a versitile system that could change with the times and offered games at very very competitive prices. In its time it literally destroyed its compitition. But with the coming of 3d games, 2d was becoming a thing of the past, at least for the customer base that could insure SNKs survival. No, I'm not talking about the members of this forum or all the neo geo owners all over the world. Im talking about the trillions of drooling snot nosed kids out there buying nintendos, segas, and playstations. No offense I was one too and still am but I also love neo geo. Any way, point is the MVS couldnt compete any more and the neo geo home system and hyper 64 system damn shure couldnt. Its all supply and demand and whos willing to be the most cutting edge and vesitile. Now, with all that being said, what can put SNK back on top? What made SNK great? The MVS. It was versitile, had cheaper games, memory card option, it had the home system to compliment it, and bosted more than one game to a cabinet. That was cutting edge. No one could boast that much out of any system of the time. All you have to do is take those principle features update them and add more. OK here it is. If your a gamer of any type you have to agree with this consept...period.

"The arcade/home MVS system." The system to end all systems. There are two options here but both are based on the one driving consept. Make a system that can play multiple games, that plays the exact same game media at home and at the arcade, that can handle 2D and 3D graphics flawlesly, offers mutiple periferals i.e. monitors/joystics/joypads/stering wheels/etc., offers a kick ass game library, and offers games at 50 to 60 dollars. Are you drooling yet. Now, option one is to make a system capable of being used at home and in a cabinet. That would not be to cost effective selling millions to kids that may never own a cabinet to put it in. So, I suggest option two. Make two systems, one for home set ups, and one for arcade set ups. The home set up would offer s-video, rgb-video, and rca hook-ups not to mention full sterio capabilities. The arcade would offer rgb hook-ups, coin op and arcade control hook-ups. Now for another awsome feature. You know how we have 100 slot dvd/cd players, well why not 100 slot dvd/cd/video game players. Thats right 100 games in one system. If you're not cleanin your pants out now then you must be dead. Now, for those who think emulation killed SNK, well just incript the game and make it so the system has the formula key that can unlock the game and you will have unbreakable sicurity unless a rocket scientist breaks the formula or it gets leaked out. Finally the price, yes the dread of all systems. I say it can be sold for 299.00. Don't believe me. Think about it for a while and you'll see its possible. Any way, thats it. Thats what could put SNK on top and crush all competition for all time. All they would have to do is stick to this basic formula, update the system hardware now and then to flow with new game technology, offer as simple a starter kit as posible for game manufacturers, and make and promote kick ass games. But most important never ever shut there doors to the fans that make and break the gaming industry. Thats right, just listen a little. How many reviews have you read through that said how a game or system could be better? Thats right, don't reduce your creative group to just the company. There are millions of good ideas floating out there. Just listen a little. Its called feedback. Stay cutting edge, stay versitile yet simple and the system will sell itself. Now all SNK needs is Bill Gates to fund the start up of this deal. He He
Thanks for your time and hope the words here possibly flow to someone who can make it possible.

Man I hope you guys don't slay me on this. Its a awsome consept

Later :D
 

Blaine

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As the king of long posts I shouldn't say this but:

I started skimming about halfway through.

First, the Home System was not only not a failure but quite the success. It was never designed to take out the Nintendo's and Sega's of the market, it was a niche arcade market. It was designed and marketed towards a segement of the population who wanted arcade-perfect gameplay at any cost. It found that niche and found it well. To say it is sucessful you need only look around, there is no other console with as many miles behind it as the AES who still recieves software support from it's main sources...none.

As for your idea for a console, um...

SNK tried it. It was called the NeoGeoCD. Load Times anyone?

Sure it'd be cool for the home users, I know I'd love a plug and play Naomi board but the arcade ops would never stand for it. It'd cut into the pathetically small profits they make now.

$299 for a state of the art arcade hardware? Yikes. Whoever made that would lose SO much money on the hardware and technology that the only company who could possibly make it would be the likes of a Sony, Microsoft or another huge multi-national beast of a company. A company the size of NeoGeo USA would die.

Just my 2.65 Yen.
 

LWK

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Originally posted by Blaine:
<strong>As the king of long posts I shouldn't say this but:

I started skimming about halfway through.

First, the Home System was not only not a failure but quite the success. It was never designed to take out the Nintendo's and Sega's of the market, it was a niche arcade market. It was designed and marketed towards a segement of the population who wanted arcade-perfect gameplay at any cost. It found that niche and found it well. To say it is sucessful you need only look around, there is no other console with as many miles behind it as the AES who still recieves software support from it's main sources...none.

As for your idea for a console, um...

SNK tried it. It was called the NeoGeoCD. Load Times anyone?

Sure it'd be cool for the home users, I know I'd love a plug and play Naomi board but the arcade ops would never stand for it. It'd cut into the pathetically small profits they make now.

$299 for a state of the art arcade hardware? Yikes. Whoever made that would lose SO much money on the hardware and technology that the only company who could possibly make it would be the likes of a Sony, Microsoft or another huge multi-national beast of a company. A company the size of NeoGeo USA would die.

Just my 2.65 Yen.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The king has got to be "The Black Knight" that guys writes a damn novel for a response. Pretty smart individual.
I also agree there should be no new hardwear. Considering SNK's track record with system releases it should be noted.

The ngpc died, the CD died, hyper 64 died...

With that said, what the neo truly needs to stay alive is the talent in the staff of the years 95/96/97, those were some of the neo's best and most active years game wise.

The biggest question is "How long will arcades in general be profitable". It seems that arcades are not dieing as long as the technology/system architecture can be seen as superior to the stuff on the mainstream home console market it will survive. Arcade perfect ports are what we DONT NEED on systems such as PS2, it will kill going to the arcades to play the best version of the game, if we can predict guaranteed perfect ports. We might not have the enthusiasm to challenge others etc at the cades...

Take the Naomi and the DC for example, they spoke of perfect ports, but perfection is not an issue. Mvsc2 looks leagues better on the Naomi hardwear then on the dc. Now lets take SNK for example, a company that has been established for a eternity that still holds decent ground with a system that is old as hell and has a parallel processor.

(Which was good in the earlier 90's, but 8 & 16 bit working in unison or on there own by today is seen as tremendously weak)

The neo can live forever on the account that the talent is redefined, or the originals who made the neo seen as such a great thing return. The neo truly shows that graphics mean nothing, and that the games that are being made are excellent. Its not a eye candy machine. And we all feel this special need to speak of the neo since we all feel this vibe..I know we all have some nostalgia and whatnot.
How else in the world would ancient tech would have survived so long?

The neo is almost a holy thing. This is the year 2k2, and as it stands things are changing big time.
As long as the originals who made it great are not here to help develop etc, there will always be a slump. ALWAYS. You cannot replace perfection, and some of the now non existent staff were just that in my eyes.
 
3

300 Meg Pro Gear Spec

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Hey Mr.Wizard ,

There would be no need to make it arcade and home in one system .If your system ever came out no one would go to the arcades if they could pick up the same game for $50 . Arcades would close down .

Would you on a friday night go to an arcade and play the same game you have at home for a quarter when you could stay home and play it for free without waiting in line ?

A supergun is not cheaper in the long run , go buy Capcom vs SNK 2 right now . The only way its cheaper is because some games have been out for a few years , pick up some new releases and its alot more than $50 .
 

Blaine

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Originally posted by Lord Wolfgang Krauser:
<strong>

The king has got to be "The Black Knight" that guys writes a damn novel for a response. Pretty smart individual.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh yeah, The Black Knight lets them loose. He definately is more verbose than I. However I post more often :) ...so it's a horse race.
 

david

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My idea of a new neo system would consist of a dvd player which plays the new type of neo games without long load. About 128 mb of ram and the back part would be like the saturn where u put in the memory cartridge...this is where u will put in the aes cartridge(backward compatibility). Controllers will be newly design with maybe a few more button...still the old controllers will still works. 3d graphic will be better than those out on market now...bow down x box and then slap on the tittle NEO GEO EVOlution. :p
 

Mr. Wizard

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Quite honestly, I havent been to a arcade in a while. I'm not into that seen. I'd rather be at home in my favorite chair with some friends playing a arcade game for free with a drink and something to eat. I guess its all in what your tastes are. As far as the Home system goes, I never said it didnt kick ass or that it didnt last a long time. I mean damn if I paid $600 + for a system I damn sure continue buyin games for it till there was nothin left. You gotta love a system when you pay that much. Unless your upper class you don't invest 600 + dollars and sell it a few months later after your tired of it. My point was that there customer base was to narrow an was'nt enought to support there business. The MVS started it all and every thing else branched from it. The MVS had a larger customer base because it reached out to every coin poppen kid out there. But in the end they stuck with it to long and kids wanted somthing else so SNK died (for the most part). Now, load times would not be a problem granted the system had pleanty of ram to use. X-box is a good example. No load times there that I know of and I own one with "Dead or alive 3". Finally, I must say that my opinions will only appeal to some and I appologise if I offend any one. Just talken.
Thanks :)

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Wizard ]

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Wizard ]</p>
 
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I think the only way SNK could get back on top is if they sold out and became mainstream , like what Nintendo did with Gamecube, by giveing the public what they want crapy game control for good grafix .

Neo Geo is for hardcore gamers ! thats why I love playing it !
 

Late

Reichsf?rer-Finnland,
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Originally posted by Blaine:
<strong>


SNK tried it. It was called the NeoGeoCD. Load Times anyone?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

...I know this is a bit off topic in this thread but, When SNK was developing the Neo Geo CD console, didn`t they test it with players at all?
...I mean considering the loading times, and nowadays lots of PC games are beimg rigorously beta-tested...strange?
 

Kazuya_UK

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Alhtough I hate to say it, SNK needs to make some more mainstream stuff. I know that might make them look as if they are selling out, but at least it would mean they could make enough cash to stay alive...

Look at Capcom - they make tonnes of mainstream crap (I do like stuff like DMC and RE though), but that means that they have enough cash to "risk" making 2d games as well. Lets face it, as much as we love 2d games, they don't sell enough anymore to keep a company alive (at least not in the west). If a company has to "sell out" and make some 3d games aimed at a more mainstream audience to stay afloat, but still produces some great 2d stuff, thats fine with me.
 

Mr. Wizard

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Kazuya, I agree with you completly. Keep producing what Neo Geo fans love but make sure your bringing in the money to continue doing so even if it means selling out. Expand the customer base. Its the only way to survive. <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
 
P

Professor_Mayhem

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I think that Sega and SNK should team up. The Kings of 2D enjoyment would surely put the gaming industry on edge if they combined forces. They worked pretty well together before.

-Professor Mayhem
 

Mr. Wizard

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It would take some deeeeep pockets i.e. Bill Gates. He He <img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" />
 

Tehcno

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Originally posted by Professor_Mayhem:
<strong>I think that Sega and SNK should team up. The Kings of 2D enjoyment would surely put the gaming industry on edge if they combined forces. They worked pretty well together before.

-Professor Mayhem</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't know about that. Sega 2D havent seen that in a long time. And I doubt that sega would even do such a thing since they have been hit to hard as it is.
 

Tehcno

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What the hell happend there. My last post got all squished. Or am I the only one seeing this.
 

FeelGood

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Originally posted by Lord Wolfgang Krauser:
<strong>
</strong><hr></blockquote>

good points and well spoken. I figure myself that I am so satisfied witht eh neo geo's poerformance and games that I don't care for upgrades. The hyper wasn't necessary, and when it was released, I remember a lot of people didn't want it, saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" (BigBear). But the hyper gamers were good. However, neo geo 16 bit games were better... Why is that?

I guess if Rembrant were alive today, his pencil and ink drawings would be laughed at because we have 3D electronic media? I guess Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft would help push that kind of thinking.
 

Takumaji

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A few comments, Mr. Wizard;

First of all, I don't think that the home system was a financial desaster right from the start. It was a niche console for a niche market, featuring niche games for a mature audience.

SNK, apart from the 2D fighter and arcade action game biz, was never a key player in the home entertainment industry. They had their AES and CD consoles, but these were made for arcade gamers, 2D freaks and fighting game connoiseurs, but neither for the Zelda fan of yesteryear, nor the casual couch next-gen-gamer of now. SNK = arcade, not only technically, but also conceptually; the perfection of a game was always more important to them than the actual distribution.

So, if you're thinking of a new piece of hardware with a genuine SNK logo on it, keep in mind that a vast majority of video gamers want 3D action adventures, movie adaptions, fantasy RPGs, realistic sports games and racers, while only a small number of dedicated fans are into 2D fighters and platformers. For a guy like me who loves his 16bit 2D stuff more than anything else, this is a sad reality, but still a reality, which simply can't be ignored if you want to be successful.

And, $50 for a game for this imaginary SNK console, for an arcade-perfect version?! Uhm, nope, I don't think that would work.

Btw., most, if not all, of your wanted features list can IMO be found in Sega's wonderful Dreamcast. It's still definitely worth getting, but would be the king of 2D & 3D if Sega would have given it another chance.
 

Mr. Wizard

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Please, if your going to respond to my topic read all that I have posted. Some one else said the same thing you've said about the home system and I responded:
As far as the Home system goes, I never said it didnt kick ass or that it didnt last a long time. I mean damn if I paid $600 + for a system I damn sure continue buyin games for it till there was nothin left. You gotta love a system when you pay that much. Unless your upper class you don't invest 600 + dollars and sell it a few months later after your tired of it. My point was that there customer base was to narrow an was'nt enought to support there business. The MVS started it all and every thing else branched from it. The MVS had a larger customer base because it reached out to every coin poppen kid out there. But in the end they stuck with it to long and kids wanted somthing else so SNK died (for the most part). <hr></blockquote>

What Im talking about is survival of the SNK corp and what they would need to do. Appeal to a larger customer base. In the gaming industry if you sell a system it has to appeal to a large customer base to make money to survive. Supply and DEMAND. Sega can tell you all about that.

As far as the system being able to handle 3d games, you need to reread my first post. I clearly stated that it would handle 2d and 3d flawlessly. And don't say its impossible. Thats bull anything is possible in the electronic industry.

As far as price. I would say that there are plenty of x-box and PS2 games that are arcade quality and they are $50.

All I ask is that all my posts are read before making strong opinions. I know its a lot of reading but I'm gonna get tired of repeating myself quick.

Sorry,
Wiz. :)
 

Mr. Wizard

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I must add this:
The Neo Geo had to be made otherwise the world would have missed out on a great thing. Its just unfortunate that the cost of producing it made a price that only certain people could afford. If the system was sold for $350 and the games were $100 then they would have had a larger profit margin and would have stayed around longer. Question: would you say that the price of the system and games made it a niche console for a niche market? Or was it simply the Rolls Royce of systems from the get go and never intended to make a huge profit? Does price make a reputation? <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
 

FeelGood

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See, Mr. Wiz, we've seent hat point before - appeal to a larger consumer base. I don't think that is necessary. How do you appeal to a larger userbase when you make games in 2D and they cosr more than a minimum wage paycheck? Even if you make $50,000 a year (before taxes of course) these games are pretty expensive.

So what do you do? You keep making good games and hope that your loyal userbase doesn't grow tired of them. SNK has done that. Metal Slug and KoF are perrenial treats now, because they sell well, and they resell well to boot. How many MS2 and MSX are left over on homecart? Even MS# needed a rerelease. But when you look at ports, how well do you think metal slug X ont he PSX sold? Hey - that was a damn good action game. It should have sold well, right? In reality, just putting a good game on a mainstream system isn't going to help your cause. Unless you make the next great thing, most people will look away and find other games. I'm too lazy to bother looking for anything better most of the time.
 

Mr. Wizard

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Again please read all my posts before responding. I have given a consept for the next best thing. I've covered every arument in all my posts.

Thanks
 

Blaine

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Originally posted by Mr. Wizard:
<strong>Or was it simply the Rolls Royce of systems from the get go and never intended to make a huge profit? Does price make a reputation? <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly. Rolls Royce is a $300,000 car, who'd buy a car for that much when they can pick up a new Eclipse for $20,000 or so?

The Neo•Geo was only designed for that one specific market, whether or not it was geared towards more affluent buyers is irrelevant. No one at Ferrari is working on a business model where there's a Diablo in every driveway.

You gotta get over this 'if it was cheap it'd still be around' mentality, just because it's not at Toy's R Us doesn't mean it's not around. To this very day there are still games being produced for the hardware, it's debatable whether or not they're good games but even if we play devil's advocate and say that the 2000 line-up was the "last" class of games then you're still looking at a solid decade of support!

No other console, no matter what the user base can boast that...typical lifespan of a console is 5 years if it's sucessful, 2 or 3 if it's not.

I'd even go so far as to say that if it was cheaper and had a larger foothold in the market that it wouldn't have lived so long. The gaming public at large is fickle. If SNK was a dominant figure in the market around the time of the console wars then they would have been directly in competition with Sega and Nintendo and as those two shifted towards 'next-gen' hardware SNK would have followed suit to keep thier share of the market. Meaning they would have either went early (ala Sega CD and PC-FX) and produced a FMV setup (which at the time was firmly believed to be the wave of the future) or they would have hung out later and tried to get involved with the 3D gaming revolution. While they did create the Hyper64, that was dedicated arcade hardware and never intended to replace the AES. But if they had a large marketshare of common gamers they probably would have gone full-steam-ahead with the 3D or FMV unit and left the AES twisting in the wind (a company of SNK's size can't possibly afford to support two consoles, they'd probably have added 2D support to their new setup).

I'm not trying to slam all of your ideas, I'm all for hypothetical debate.
 
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