Zupapa AES, NGF, Neo-Geo.com, and more ranting...

As I write this, keep in mind that I have been collecting games for quite some time, work in the video game industry and a respected magazine, and play many video game platforms quite extensively.

Let me tell you a little about my collection without sounding arrogant so you can get a feel for what I am going to want to discuss here...I own every NES 8 bit USA nintendo game that exists, including all the Sachen games, all the European/Australian only releases, and I have around 140 betas, including the 1990 Nintendo World Championship Cart, numerous test carts, and other oddities. I also own all the Vectrex games, Virtual Boy games, Sega Master System games, and am 4 games away from completing my Turbo Grafx collection, and 10 away from the Atari Jaguar collection. (Note, these are only USA releases, I am missing very few, if any, other country releases as well) Since I started collecting Neo Geo AES English home carts about a year ago, I have been able to acquire all of them except one. Twice I was contacted about Mark of the Wolves, and twice I was “ripped” off whereas I had to go through issues to get my money back, which I did. I recently sold a few games on the forums at <a href="http://www.neo-geo.com," target="_blank">www.neo-geo.com,</a> and was apalled when I was told that I was asking for “too much” money for Metal Slug X. When I sold it for $550 to someone on the forums, that person turend around and ebayed it for a BUY IT NOW price of $599, which was sold in less than 12 hours. Anytime I asked for a price that was smaller than ebay rates, I was ridiculed and made fun of mainly by most of the posters on the forums that seem to have nothing better to do at <a href="http://www.neo-geo.com." target="_blank">www.neo-geo.com.</a> The hypocrisy in the Neo Geo community is beyond me, everyone hating on everyone, and just bitching for the sake of bitching when it’s very apparent that THEY have nothing to do with the matter at hand, and don’t know how to mind their own business. I mean, no one here knows about pricing anymore, things went WAY up, and it’s not because of Metal Slug 2 fetching money on ebay recently, these games have become harder to find, and EBAY prices show that, yet, Yahoo JPN auctions are still stable, and nowhere near as inflated for Neo Geo games, and that goes for Pulstar, Blazing Star, and the Quiz game that everyone talks about.

Now, because of this, everyone is bitching about “homebrew” or thirs party support for the Neo Geo because NGF USA (yes, Neo Geo Freak) released Zupapa! Let me ask you all something, when Arcade Solutions releases conversions, they do not nearly receive as many complaints, and they charge just as much for certain games, both do conversions, both do an excellent job, and both I would consider “third party” support for the Neo Geo. For those of you unfamiliar with this, in the Atari community (where there are adults running around) you do not see them badmouth Songbird Productions ( who make Jaguar games still) <a href="http://songbird.atari.org" target="_blank">http://songbird.atari.org</a> if you want to look, nor did anyone bitch about Battlesphere. In fact, everyone welcomed these games with open arms. Are they official Jaguar released games? Not by Atari, but by a third party company, yes. Neo Geo Freak and Arcade! are both that, and have their own releases. If you do not like them, don’t buy from them, and don’t count them as part of your collection of SNK released games. Simple as that. I have dealt with both of them, and both are excellent. Ray Young cares about the NEO community and just released a slew of games quickly, they PROVIDE all of you with more games to play on the NEO AES system. Dion Dakis, as much as the majority of people dislike him for whatever reason/rumor they hear, loves the NEO GEO, and knows more about that system that anyone I would say. You can say whatever you want about him, and hate his ‘stamps’ on games, but that is no different than a Game Dude sticker, a GameStop ! sticker, or stamp from anyone else. if you REQUEST them not to stamp the game, they will NOT stamp it. Simple as that. You won’t have a warranty, but if you are anal, so be it. I have dealt with Dion and Chris, and NO, they do not sticker and stamp all of their inserts, nor do they “ruin” all the SNK original inserts. They supply their own “corrected” inserts available on REQUEST. If you want the original SNK one, you can ask for it, and get it. If not, they will tell you it is “corrected” and you if you don’t want it, don’t buy it, simple as that. they are a third party company, just as Songbird Productions is. This is their hobby to you, and both NGF and Arcade supply everyone with things that no one else would take the time to create because of the work involved.

Now, at this point, many of you will say the same thing. BLAH BLAH I will never deal with so and so. Have any of you dealt with NGF? Any of you dealt witht hem in the past year? Have any of you asked for the proper things without assuming they won’t stamp anything just because you are special? You need to request certain things, and make it clear. I have Zupapa. I wanted to play it on the home system, because I do not have a MVS Phantom converter. I bought it for $290, received it with full color manual, beautiful insert, and perfect cart and sticker. I am very pleased that I get to play this game. Is it a SNK release? No. Is it a NGF release? Yes. A very inexpensive one at that considering that Zupapa is about 199$ on MVS right now. Therefore converting all of these carts is not an option.

Take a step back and look at yourselves, if you want to enjoy the Neo Geo, then quit bitching about everyone and acting like you are all high and mighty, and enjoy the damned system. We are stil seeing games for this great system from Eolith, NGF, Arcade, Shawn, and even NCSX for importing the English KOF 2001 as well. Try and not be negative and just flame everyone, we are all a family, and love the same thing, but let me tell you, the outside view on this community is completely negative because of the way EVERYONE acts towards everyone. Chris Ray should not be flaming you guys and belittling you, and you guys should not flame NGF or Arcade! or people selling games for prices that you do not see fit. Everyone needs to act like an adult here, and embrace the Neo Geo. We won’t be able to get new Neo Geo fans if the community continues this way. It is a very pricey hobby, and we can work together to let everyone know how much the Neo means to us all by just getting along with healthy discussions and inquiries. I know this may seem impossible, but at least I can hope there are those that can benefit from all of us HELPING and not HARMING.

Thank you.

I would personally liek to thank Billy Pitt for making me “want” to collect Neo Geo more, as well as Arcade for some great releases and deals, Shawn at neo-geo.com for the great products and deals, Dion and Chris at NGF for the great conversions and deals on AES stuff, and to some of the neo-geo.com community for helping me get some games as well.

PS-If you aren’t going to sell, don’t ask to sell games, then reneg and say the “game or games” were not sent or lost and not have tracking numbers and come up with excuses why you have not answered your emails in weeks. I do not harm, I just want to play some games =)

That's a nice post to read, but a lot of people will argue with what you say. Mainly about NGF. Have you read that NGF bible? How they yanked around Mouse Master, and he had to get the mayor to call Dion up to get his ass in gear to send it? There are tons of bad stories floating around about NGF. When they are on this board, they prove that they lack the professionalism that should come with being head of a business. I'm sorry, but every single thread of NGF there is, there's always some story about somebody being ripped off. Chris calls this a 'scene', so people can be cool and join in. I think this is a little more than a scene. People don't go around bashing two online retailers for absolutely no reason. Look at those bad jobs they tried to pass off on shawn (there's pics of these). This is more than enough to tell me not to deal with them. I thank these guys, just like I'm happy my mother was there when I was too young to know better and told me to stay out of the street. I don't think people bitch so much about converted carts. Some people may say they don't approve of them, but it's mainly when NGF tries to pull off a job, throw their insert in, and claim it as the real deal. What happened when somebody asked for NGF to not put a sticker with the game? They stamped it. I'm sorry, but it's not as easy as you make it out to be with 'just request them to not do it'. Dion himself said "it's like signing your tax return.. i'm sorry you can't understand that". He manages to give a customer a BS excuse, and in the mean time try and jab at them implying that they are dumbasses for not understanding this.

Every single day I play my Neo. I enjoy it. NGF, they are not the Neo (no matter how much they would like to say they are). When massive amounts of people get ripped off, it's more than likely you will hear about it, so it's futile to say "just be quiet and enjoy your Neo" - it won't happen. To look at the big picture, you have to notice the shapes that make it, and NGF looks like something that should've been erased long ago. Do you know how horrible it is to win a Neo game off ebay, and pray to god that it doesn't have anything NGF on it? That almost ruins this hobby for me (and many others).

you're ignotrant.

and this is why:

first of all, regarding pricing of neo carts. many people do not agree with ebay prices, and when someone sells a metal slug x for $500+ its insane. because we want to keep prices down, ebay prices are wayyy inflated

and secondly about this 'third party' support.
thoes games made for jaguar are original game, they are made by the companies producing and manufacturing and distributing them,

as for ngf and arcade on the other hand...

SNK MAKES THE GAMES THE DISTRIBUTE, NO THEMSELVES!

arcade is fine with it though, all their carts are real chips, no sac carts, and they sell them as conversions.

now with ngf on the other hand.

ngf's conversions are sloppy (internally) and they use sac carts and eproms. not only that but they sell them as "NGF OFFICIAL" and claimn them as official releases by snk only sold through ngf. that is illegal. they have also lied on many many occasions, ripped people off etc. And according to chris/dion, they stated that it was ngf POLICY to STAMP AND STICKER inserts/cases/carts/manuals etc. other companies just put a sticker on the case, they go out of their way to RUIN the product they are selling. you can ask for no stamps/stickers but they will be there

ngf is a bunch of liars and scammers

arcade is honest

end of story

NGF carts versus !ARCADE! carts? NGF represents converted carts as the genuine article. !ARCADE! presents his conversions for what they are, and they are much higher quality than the hack jobs that chris ray does. BTW, the "Zupapa AES" was more than likely made using the EPROMS chris purchased on eBay.

He just said 'respected' magazine, not necessarily a video game one.. could be anything.. Who knows? Maybe he's that watch dog in gamepro

look out! TOTOROOOOO!
bleh.
ya know i feel for you.
the NEOGEO community is a stressful one sometimes
just being a fan too mind you.
all the shit you have to put up with.
!arcade is good.
no one doubting that.
nor shawn.
but NGFUSA..
i dunno.
it seems like they re rather elitest when ever i
scope out conversations between them.
i see chrisRay in chat the few times he braves it.
chris and dion speak only one language.
money.
then they are your best friends right?
i wouldnt say they ever tried to further any other
endevours but their own though.
at least shawns tried to support SNK in the meanwhile.
NGFUSA if you noticed only shows up when SNK has
their big yard sales and puts down every thing cheap.
i dont agree with their stamping idea.
but thats their own agenda.
its their practices that further hinder anyone
purchasing from them.
god knows they have the merchandise but people like
me who are assholes wont deal with them because
of the little things.
good riddance.
o and dont worry bout people putting down your
prices. for some reason people look for deals in
the selling forum.
sell it on ebay is usually the best route if you
have the resources.

Indeed you did. Been up since 6pm yesterday.. the eyes are blurry

You know I do understand how you feel but one thing which sadly a lot of people seem not to realize.

The....Morals of NGF is really bent in a direction that they never seem to want to unwind. If NGF actually tried not to freak, mess or change stuff around with AES games, I would sincerely leave them alone.....

Oh yeah, of course there's no reason to tag Zupapa, it already says NGF on the spine! Wake up and smell the shite

Jason,it's Simone,glad to see you here.

You named Billy Pitt,he is a great videogame collector and you know him well.
he was cheated by NGF,they cheated him on a Over top home cart and he avoids making business with them.

Dion dakis and Chris Ray are:

-as collectors very poor collectors since they don't have a complete home cart or mvs (complete kits) collection.

-as sellers,NOT honest-many persons ripped off or cheated

-as neo geo experts,so really not so experts.

So..you are set Jason!

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: FTL ]

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: FTL ]</p>

GRRR... THAT RANTING RHETORIC I just read had NO SUBSTANCE whatsoever! I can't even comment right now because I am about to COMBUST after reading all of that JIBBERISH trying to "lump" respectable business MEN in with two people(?) WHO ARE THIEVES,LIARS and Destroyers of SNK authentic merchandise!!
IF you support NGF,NGF will PUNISH YOU!
Even if you don't support NGF,their vandalized crapola will trickle down and you will somehow end up having some ebay MORON ship it to you swearing it's the REAL DEAL!
SNK created three formats! MVS NGH and CD.
Zupapa is an OFFICIAL MVS ONLY title
I am so mad My sig is dedictated to the starter of this thread and NGF!

It's beyond rationalization! NGF "must GO!"
-BB

Jason,

NGF was so kind to deliver your Zupapa AES that you had to ask them many times to deliver to you the cart after payment..mentioning you would have been in Vegas soon...Dion replied you was welcome to pick up the cart...what a customres service!

Jason, while you have an impressive non-neo collection (that Nintendo collection astounds me, I was just proud to have most Wisdom Tree games), you clearly show your lack of long term experience with the Neo Geo.

Many of NGF's most ferocious dectractors on this board have been watching their antics since they were simply Dion and Chris. I've watched the two sides go at it since 1998 and I really think NGF's been the victimizer on many more occasions than you want to believe.

I agree there is a bit of hypocracy with !Arcade! -but they've also been known to (1) not make false claims of authenticity (2) not always use a sac cart. They also developed a MVS to AES convertor that helped many neo gamers save money, unlike NGF which tries to hook you into the whole "the more you spend, the bigger 'bigtymer' you are" ploy used by sleazy salesmen world wide. Most people here won't buy NGF, and if they do, its at very depreciated prices. Most of their wares need to be sold/resold by private auction on eBay... Think about that one -protection from harrassment, or protection from over-paying for a bootleg?

YOu also don't seem to read the threads posted here very often... There was a thread about a $2000 game auction on your "stable" Yahoo JPN -but I guess you missed it. I could point out a factual flaw in most of your sentences but I don't expect you to actually read them all, judging from your post, you're probably the type of person who justs vents frustration and leaves the thread so that you won't have to deal with the response.

Any attempt you made at unifying everyone in a banner of happiness is impossible in this scene because of its history of corruption -to many people have been screwed by a few individuals.

As a final thought: bootlegged collections are not complete.

Robert Garcia's Butler


Member # 616


posted February 13, 2002 02:22 PM                       

------------------------------------------------------------------------
you're ignotrant.
and this is why:
first of all, regarding pricing of neo carts. many people do not agree with ebay prices, and when someone sells a metal slug x for $500+ its insane. because we want to keep prices down, ebay prices are wayyy inflated

Ok, that is why you are hypocritical, the SAME people who talk shit about me trying to sell the cart offer me tons of money on PM and email, they fool you,a nd you fool yourselves for believing that, everyone wants the carts for themselves, then talk shit trying to keep the prices down, but in reality, they pay large sums, happened for both
rb2 and msx, cept for rb2, I just said, "kindly make offers"

and secondly about this 'third party' support.
thoes games made for jaguar are original game, they are made by the companies producing and manufacturing and distributing them,
as for ngf and arcade on the other hand...
SNK MAKES THE GAMES THE DISTRIBUTE, NO THEMSELVES!
arcade is fine with it though, all their carts are real chips, no sac carts, and they sell them as conversions.

Oh really? Did you know that Cybervirus for Lynx was acquired the exact SAME WAY as a NGF release? I should know, that was an UNRELEASED game until recently. You don't know about the Lynx releases they do? And as for Arcade, you are worng, the INSIDES of Arcade boards are a special custom made ARCADE boad, not an SNK board at all by any means, those chips are mass produced, it is too costly and time consuming if they converted back and forth, the "reality" is that they use SNK cases, but not insides.
now with ngf on the other hand.

ngf's conversions are sloppy (internally) and they use sac carts and eproms. not only that but they sell them as "NGF OFFICIAL" and claimn them as official releases by snk only sold through ngf.

No they don't, you are stuck in some odd year, they have never said that to anyone lately, they ARE NGF official, meaning "their own company" carts. If they claimed them to be "official" SNK releases in the past, they are SURE not doing that now. They have not done that for a long time from what I understand.

that is illegal. they have also lied on many many occasions, ripped people off etc.


Ripped off completely? Why are they still in business? You don't think the Better Business Bureau woud be after them?

And according to chris/dion, they stated that it was ngf POLICY to STAMP AND STICKER inserts/cases/carts/manuals etc. other companies just put a sticker on the case, they go out of their way to RUIN the product they are selling.

It's not RUINING the product when it is THEIR OWN INSERTS. They ONLY "stamp" the SNK inserts if you don't say anything otherwise, did you not read my post? They don't ruin everything as you say, you need to be CLEAR with them with what you want.

you can ask for no stamps/stickers but they will be there.

Oh really? funny, Mine don't have stamps and stickers, I wonder why that is? Mayeb it's because I ASKED, instead of assuming. let me ask, have YOU personally dealt with them, or are you just in on it for the hearsay? If you don;t have any experience with them personally, then youhave no reason to speak. I have had good business with NGF, and ARCADE.

ngf is a bunch of liars and scammers

arcade is honest
end of story

Wow, such chilling facts...guess that's why people still buy from NGF...hmm....they are both good companies, try dealing with NGF for once then instead of joining a crowd.

Im tired of hearing about NGF <img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> <img src="graemlins/blowtop.gif" border="0" alt="[Blow Top]" />

NGF carts versus !ARCADE! carts? NGF represents converted carts as the genuine article.


Um, NO they do not, geez, are you all stuck in some warped year back in the mid 90s? If they did that then, they are SURE not doing that NOW.

!ARCADE! presents his conversions for what they are, and they are much higher quality than the hack jobs that chris ray does.

BTW, the "Zupapa AES" was more than likely made using the EPROMS chris purchased on eBay.

EPROMS are more expensive than ROM chips. It;s funny how every other community LOVES EPROMS, and NEo Geo fana hate theM? They think an EPROM is bootleg? This is the same people that believe ZIntrick 9and all 5 that were made) is a true proto!!! Come on! To each his own, there is nothing wrong with the Zupapa cart, if you want to go and pay $1500 for Zintrick whereas more art can be made for it, so be it, the carts can stil be made as well. But I ca say this, NGf does not pass off the converts as REAL SNK releases.

Who wrote your script? Is sounds vaguely familiar? <img src="graemlins/eek2.gif" border="0" alt="[Eek 2]" />

Is it a video game magazine that you work for? If so, which one? I cannot recall there being any game magazines left that are truly respected, since GameGO! went under.

I am REALLY goint to take this as a joke, GameGo? Yeah, there are SOOOO many people that wanted to read about the latest Japanese Saturn dating simulation game, please....LOLOLOL

So you work for PSM or someone then?

Well, Jason. After reading your post, I can say that many of the examples you use are just wrong, wrong, wrong. Let's take a look and see where the differences between fact and fiction rear their heads.


"...NGF USA (yes, Neo Geo Freak) released Zupapa! Let me ask you all something, when Arcade Solutions releases conversions, they do not nearly receive as many complaints, and they charge just as much for certain games, both do conversions, both do an excellent job, and both I would consider “third party”..."

!Arcade! has never, ever claimed that their carts were official SNK/Apple/whoever product. When you buy an !Arcade! release, you are buying a conversion, simple as that. Everybody knows it and, contrary to your post, some people do bitch about. On the other hand, NGF claims that the Zupapa! release is an official release made in conjunction with Apple and Face (a company that has been bankrupt and gone for some time). This is absolutely not true. They are lying about the status of this game. You have stated that you regard Zupapa! as a third party release, and you are correct. The reality however is that NGF is marketing the game as an official English release to fit along side the likes of Samurai Shodown. In no way is that accurate. If there were anywhere near 500 copies of this game floating around, don't you think it would appear on at least one online site on the face of this planet for sale? Of course! Yet where are they? I have seen exactly one for sale on eBay and that was Dion's own auction.

Is it a good price? Yes, it is. Is it a release that was made in conjunction with Face and Apple. No way. Are there actually 500 of them out there? Not a chance. There's discrepancy number 1.

On to the next. Dion Dakis is absolutely VEHEMENT about stamping every goddam item that leaves his hands. If you have been able to avoid such treatment of your merchandise then you are quite the exception. Just ask Joe McCabe about the MVS graphics kits he bought from Dion. Dion had the gall to stamp the every one of the damned GRAPHICS kits Joe bought from him!!! If Dion touches it, it has been stamped before it leaves his hands. Like I said, if you are the exception, then count yourself lucky because even the NGF supporters that frequent this board will tell you in individual chat that Dion stamps all items. Chris may be a different story and if he doesn't, Dion certainly doesn't know about it. Discrepancy number 2.


And on the matter of their sticker/stamps being no different than that of the other stores you mention, you are partially correct. The thing is, I have never received a game from the stores you mention that had a sticker placed on an area that could not be removed with out damaging the merchandise. NGF stamps the insert with ink. Instantly not mint and also not reversible. The sticker they apply to the cart can certainly be removed without a trace, but what about the manual? I myself have a copy of Last Blade that came to me via a friend. He bought it from Dion. There was a sticker in the friggin' manual!!! He of course removed it and now there is a damaged page in the instructions. Again, instantly not mint. I believe they have since stopped the stickers in the manuals, but that may have been replaced by stamping them which may even be worse. To that, however, I cannot speak. Discrepancy number 3.

"They (NGF) supply their own “corrected” inserts available on REQUEST."

Absolutely and unequivocally false. Both Chris and Dion have proudly stated, loudly and clearly on this board and the DHP mailing list that they will never sell a game with an original insert if it does not fit their corrected genre stripping model. I will paraphrase their words when I state their reasoning: "We will never support the laziness and apathy of the former SNK USA by allowing games that should have been properly genre striped leave our hands without being corrected." Not a direct quote, but Neither Chris or Dion will counter that statement with anything different. It is practically their mantra. Again, if you were able to somehow, someway buy from them and get a non-corrected inserts (MSX with a red stripe, say) then count yourself as the grand exception to their very publicly and repeatedly stated rule. Discrepancy number 4.

And your comparison to the Atari scene is also not applicable, be it Jaguar or 2600. Nobody in that scene is claiming to be officially associated with any former Atari entity or developer unless it is truth. Also, the folks that generate the games for those platforms via EPROM burns and what not do not rape their customer base by overpricing the merchandise. The game Battlesphere was also released without any such claim of having Atari buy in, or whatever other entity might have the rights to the Jaguar hardware. It was simply released for people to enjoy. NGF is constantly attempting to achieve some modicum of legitimacy by claiming relationships with certain entities that they in reality do not have. Big difference. Discrepancy number 5.

Frankly, I could go on, but I tire of this discussion. There is more to pick apart in your statements. Should you feel the need to argue, go ahead, but I don't make statements w/o the ability to back them up. The DHP archives alone will substantiate most of what I have stated, and those posts come directly from Dion himself.

To be honest, your heart seems in the right place and I hope you don't see this as an attack, as it is certainly not meant to be so. However, your perception of NGF seems slightly amiss, possibly because you have not joined the ranks as one of the many unfortunates to have been treated poorly either directly or indirectly by NGF. best of luck to you and enjoy your hobby. I certainly do. Just don't look to get anywhere barking up the tree you are currently looking up. We've seen and heard to much to think other than we do.

Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't use the fact that you work for a gaming magazine as a credential to somehow legitimize your perspective. I have yet to see a gaming magazine write a story on Neo Geo that wasn't somehow wrong in any myriad of ways. Generally the experts are not those in the publishing industry. Those that publish do get certain access and perks, but it evidently does not serve to make then any better informed than enthusiasts. I am not saying you are one of the oblivious writers out there. I am however saying that most of them are oblivious and that associating yourself with their ranks isn't necessarily a vote in the yes column, so to speak.

Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your stay here.

I agree there is a bit of hypocracy with !Arcade! -but they've also been known to (1) not make false claims of authenticity (2) not always use a sac cart. They also developed a MVS to AES convertor that helped many neo gamers save money, unlike NGF which tries to hook you into the whole "the more you spend, the bigger 'bigtymer' you are" ploy used by sleazy salesmen world wide.


Well, I know that NGF does try and "sell" moreso, they are trying to get money as salesmen, I undertsand that, but the only reason I am defending NGF is because tregardless of the "past" they are trying to somewhat make amends this way, not making any of those claims you say. They have not don that in awhile, and I know that once you alienate the customer, it is hard to get them back.

There was a thread about a $2000 game auction on your "stable" Yahoo JPN -but I guess you missed it. I could point out a factual flaw in most of your sentences but I don't expect you to actually read them all, judging from your post, you're probably the type of person who justs vents frustration and leaves the thread so that you won't have to deal with the response.

2000$ is 250,000 Yen or so, and I can tell you, that there was not any NEo GEo auction in the past few months tha ended anywhere near that high, I regularly bid on yahoo JPN. I am only frustrated at what you say, the "corruption!"

And as for bootleg, I do not have anything that is bootleg, I have conversions of MVS games, and all my AES games are the real deal, none are bootlegged. the only NGF games I have are: ZUpapa and Bust a Move. The Real Bout 2 I sold on here was from NGF, and there were NO stickers, or stamps, and you don't see anyone complaining. The four games I purchased fro mthem I asked for original inserts and no stamps on manual or insert, and I got what I wanted.

There are a lot of flaws in your logic, Jason. A few:

Gamedude may apply stickers to carts, but never puts them in manuals and would never "stamp" the back of the insert as well. On the cart, a sticker is removable; in a manual it isn't, nor is an ink stamp on the back of an insert.

NGF's products aren't remotely in the same league as !Arcade!'s, or Songbirds, or ng.com's in terms of quality. They're not official, yet over and over they've claimed that they are. Songbirds produts are professionally made, as are the products released by the Neo Store and !Arcade!.

In the case of the Neo Store, Shawn personally financed the production of 500 English Metal Slug 3 and 500 English Sengoku 3 home carts, all official and produced by SNK Japan exclusively for him to sell. The carts were shipped directly from Japan to Memphis, Tennessee where Shawn is located. Yet OVER AND OVER Dion and Chris have spread lies and bullshit about how "Apple printed the artwork" or "Apple paid for the production" or "no way he could have had them shipped from Japan by UPS" (which is a lie). Forn each cart release, there were about 42 packages which accounted for the 500 carts (2 cases per box, each case holds 12 carts), and UPS Express was used for the shipping. Expensive shipping, but they arrived quickly and were not mishandled or abused as a result. These carts are official SNK products despite Chris and Dion's endless lies about them.

It IS our business when people get ripped off (as in the case of Gargoyle7 or Mouse Master), or get sent products with stamps or stickers on them against their wishes (Wolf, TonK, etc.), or when those doing honest good things for the community are slandered (Big Bear and Shawn). It also is our business when a "company" claims to sell authentic products (Zupapa! being an example) when they're not at all.

NGF doesn't supply their own "corrected" inserts "upon request", they supply them PERIOD for a lot of games. We don't want them, PERIOD. Thats a problem, get it? I'll take a rattty shit-stained original insert over a fake "NGF" "corrected" one any day. Plus I don't want their stamps or stickers or fake inserts on anything, PERIOD.

You can believe what you want Jason, but as Bobak! pointed out, you're not knowledgable of what went on in this hobby for years before. Those of us who are won't sit by and see it continue, NGF ruined their reputation long ago. Only a few morons will deal with them anymore, and if the shoe fits . . . <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" /> <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />