US KOF 2000 NGH/AES Controversy

Kpj · Nov 7, 2002

People say I never leave the selling forum. Well, that habit will be broken

Before I even open my mouth on this subject, I want to get some things straight. This topic is strictly MY opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I do NOT want hate mail, spam or flaming. Let's keep this civil.

Everyone knows I have one of these "freaked" carts in my possesion. This game was acquired from AssFlounder's US/EURO collection, and is now kept in mine since the spine matches the others.

I woke up this morning and walked over to my entertainment center; browsing thru my NGH/AES carts. I stopped when I came to KOF2000 and noticed how professional it looked amongst the others.

Now I do not recommend buying from N G F, supporting them in anyway, etc... I would have NEVER bought this cart, it just so happened it came with the bundle.

The question I have is, how did they produce such a nice insert? Besides the tiny URL printed on the back of the insert, the art is flawless. It truly looks like an official print by SNK. I have had a few NGF carts thru the years (not purchased directly from the FOOLs) with fake/freaked inserts, instruction manuals & cart stickers. None, and I mean NONE have ever looked like this. Even the stock feels the same as the official inserts. !Arcade! is the ONLY supplier of NGH/AES games that could fool the untrained eye. He (Ray) is definitely tops at this.

If SNK, truly, didn't create the insert/ect. for the US KOF 2000, then who did? We all know N G F doesn't have the capability of producing such an astounding piece.

I am looking for more information. This is not a hype thread. I am NOT selling it either. I just want to know a little more on the history of the cart.

Kpj

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Kenny Boy ]

Kid Aphex · Nov 7, 2002

ARE YOU READY TO RUMMMMBLE?

Seriously though. As much as I would like some serious discussion on the topic, I doubt there will be any without pointless NGF flaming.

Guys, we ALL KNOW NGF eat shit. So let's have a serious discussion about this.

Kpj · Nov 7, 2002

Thanks KA.

I am not, and was not trying to start a war; simply a detailed discussion on the where-a-bouts of the TRUE history of this title.

Dion/Chris, I URGE you to come forward and inform us on the details.

Let's uncover the hidden truth on this gem.

Kpj

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

Instead of going to Kinko's for a change those two morons went to a Professional Print Shop.
I know the exact stock paper they used as well..
All they did was take a sample of the documentation to a professional printer and get a large # created to keep the costs down.
This is why they have sheets of the artwork remaining on stand-by
If they need to fill an order,they just grab the official japanese release and SWAP OUT the authentic materials in favor of their counterfeits..
There is NO WAY IN HELL SNK would compromise their integrity by allowing those two buffoons to plaster the acronym NGF and their URL on SNK copyrighted materials.
Just as you stated,RAY can produce a copy of an NGH releazse to the TEE..
The FOOLS have many contacts as well but choose to use their knowledge to take advantage of people and DEFAME SNK all @ the same time.
Diyawn had been counterfeiting inserts and documentation way before the birth of NGF..It was he who sent me some samples of his work asking me what I thought...well,it was quite good but I never thought that his intentions was to corrupt the Neo Geo scene and lose his "small mind".
-BB

Daisuke Jigen · Nov 7, 2002

Gem my ass. <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" />

Bootleg crap.

And not even the fun bootleg crap, like a foot tall yellow Optimus Prime.

The crap as in "shit" crap.

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

I would just like to ad that we all know Dion is an EGOMANIAC he loves to post pics of himself and others , doing this and that but what is VERY STRANGE is that the English release of KOF2k @ that time would be considered nothing short of YUUUUUGE! Where are the pics to back up the NGF claims?? Where are the contracts?? Where are the notarized statements??
You mean to tell me that the internet is FLOODED with NGF antics yet the biggest thing that could ever happen for them..something that would truly make folks sit up and take notice is nowhere to be found?? ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE!
Such an auspicious release and NO Documented Proof @ that time?
What you have Kenny is documentation done @ the RAY standard..and I hope I am not offending Ray by stating so but just as Ray does quality work,this documentation provided by Dion and Chris is of that caliber with the exception of the bogus script.
-BB

K hunter · Nov 7, 2002

hmm.. you guys know just as well as i do, that all N G F wants is attention... <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" />

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by K hunter:
hmm.. you guys know just as well as i do, that all N G F wants is attention... <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> <hr></blockquote>
Here is the link were NGF fail to provide PROOF
which should have never even need to be asked for sense they find the need to instantly plaster their criminal history throughout the internet.

<a href="http://www.neo-geo.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=004709" target="_blank">2k2 discussion</a>
I have cornered Dion and Chris with SERIOUS non flamatory discussion on several occassions only to have them weasle away and cloud the real issues.During one occassion where I questioned Dion about his philosopy,etc he felt the need to post a pic of himself stating how cool he was...
Nothimg short of "questionable behavior" as far as I was concerned..
Also bear in mind that it was SNK USA who distributed japanese carts with swapped out inserts yet the stickers were left on and covered up with english versions in the beginning.
-BB

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: BIG BEAR ]

Orpheus · Nov 7, 2002

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: ORPHEUS ]

NSX-T · Nov 7, 2002

!Arcade!'s inserts are great (in its own standards), but not at originals SNK/ Playmore standards. You can tell the differnces upclose. Kenny Boy, LOL, figure it out, one more step to go...

Kpj · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by NSX-T:
!Arcade!'s inserts are great (in its own standards), but not at originals SNK/ Playmore standards. You can tell the differnces upclose. Kenny Boy, LOL, figure it out, one more step to go... <hr></blockquote>

What are you trying to say?

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by NSX-T:
!Arcade!'s inserts are great (in its own standards), but not at originals SNK/ Playmore standards. You can tell the differnces upclose. Kenny Boy, LOL, figure it out, one more step to go... <hr></blockquote>

Hey Doktor,I would be defensive if I were you too.. I mean you paid 1000.00 for one fake cart when you could have purchased 5 (FIVE) of the official ones..
I mean Doktor,you are supposed to be an intelligent man(?) yet by paying 800.00 for counterfeit english documentation yo fed the habit of those fools to scam as many as they could...
Shame on you Doktor!
-BB

Kpj · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by BIG BEAR:
During one occassion where I questioned Dion about his philosopy,etc he felt the need to post a pic of himself stating how cool he was...
Nothimg short of "questionable behavior" as far as I was concerned..<hr></blockquote>

I actually fell on the floor laughing after I read this....OMFG!

K hunter · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by BIG BEAR:

Here is the link were NGF fail to provide PROOF
which should have never even need to be asked for sense they find the need to instantly plaster their criminal history throughout the internet.

<a href="http://www.neo-geo.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=004709" target="_blank">2k2 discussion</a>
I have cornered Dion and Chris with SERIOUS non flamatory discussion on several occassions only to have them weasle away and cloud the real issues.During one occassion where I questioned Dion about his philosopy,etc he felt the need to post a pic of himself stating how cool he was...
Nothimg short of "questionable behavior" as far as I was concerned..
Also bear in mind that it was SNK USA who distributed japanese carts with swapped out inserts yet the stickers were left on and covered up with english versions in the beginning.
-BB

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: BIG BEAR ]<hr></blockquote>

thanks again, BB.... i almost forgot about that old thread...

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

I mean come on people,I am sitting here in disbelief that this charade continues ,I mean MY GOD..Dion has shown us numerous pics of him destroying Official SNK documentation in numerous pics..He has demostrated that he has no respect for SNK whatsoever.. How is it that people believe that SNK would allow NGF to sully the SNK name is beyond me..
I mean,if they had SNK's blessings why is'nt the proof archived??
I mean if NGF sold 10 copies of that fake KOF2K they made 8000.00 or more just off that small transaction alone.
8000.00 is MORE THAN ENOUGH to get the PRINTING PRESSES ROLLING to duplicate SNK documentation quality!! BELIEVE ME!
-BB

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: BIG BEAR ]

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by Kenny Boy:


I actually fell on the floor laughing after I read this....OMFG!<hr></blockquote>

I found it to be quite disturbing...This encounter took place on the VENOMS BBS btw for anybody checking...
NGF has been given many opportunities to "clear te air" so to speak but it's just not possible because..it's ALL LIES
Also people need to realize that Chris Ray is the backbone of NGF...
It was his strong credibility in the beginning that gave NGF legitimacy..
Dion was just considered the "village idiot" before chris joined the fold..
FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL is all I can state to that..
I mean if all you had to do is move 10 pieces of something to make 8000.00 how many of you would'nt "sell out"?
-BB

Geddon_jt · Nov 7, 2002

Kenny Boy, if you want to know the FACTS, outside of the fury and conjectures offered by others, here they are, 100% truth.

1. NGF purchased a quantity of English KOF 2000 cartridges from SNK. this was confirmed 2 years ago by the people in charge of consumer sales at SNK Japan.

2. SNK was not happy at the price NGF originally charged for the cartridges.

3. certain SNK representatives claimed, upon seeing the NGF KOF 2k, that "that was not the cartridge we sent them."

4. NGF had official SNK english kof 2k manual proofs 2 months before either the jpn or english carts were released.

5. NGF now has insert/manual/sticker proofs for the English KOF 2k carts.

Here are the "conjectures":

1. 100 copies were bought. (this is NGF's claim.) certain SNK representatives claim only 50 copies were produced/purchased.

2. the English copies were altered or "freaked". (there are some differences between the KOF 2000 english carts as they came from NGF and your standard releases). Whether or not this happened with the sticker, manual, manual cover, insert, is disputed. (see Kiselgof's analysis for details). Whether or not this happened at all is also disputed.

3. the English NGF KOF 2k carts are nothing more than Japanese carts that are converted to english based off of the proofs that NGF has.

Im honestly not going to waste my time with people who are so sure about the way these events played out. Above are the facts, simple as that. The key FACT, and the reason KOF 2k english is in the master list, is that SNK did produce and sell a certain quantity of KOF 2000 english carts to NGF. Everything else really isnt as important.

-John

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

Hey Mr.MOD,I mean EX-MOD....
Once they got their hands on whatever was legitimate..It was destroyed,plain and simple was'nt it??
We are not even having a debate about what SNK did here.. the debate is about the documentation NGF swapped in whatr was "legitimate carts" whether they were intended to be JAP or English.
It's up to the bastards that want to charge 1000.00 for the cartridges to provide legitimate archived PROOF..
That's all..AND THEY HAVE'NT
-BB

EMAGDNIM · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by BIG BEAR:
I mean come on people,I am sitting here in disbelief that this charade continues ,I mean MY GOD..Dion has shown us numerous pics of him destroying Official SNK documentation in numerous pics..He has demostrated that he has no respect for SNK whatsoever.
-BB

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: BIG BEAR ]<hr></blockquote>

okay...hen why do people still but form these guys???...they are scammers, yet they are still in business...

BIG BEAR · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by EMAGDNIM:


okay...hen why do people still buy from these guys???...they are scammers, yet they are still in business...<hr></blockquote>

They are not a legitimate regulated business...they are two fools who conduct business over the internet like any reseller in our forum or on the newsgroups.
Thankyou for asking this question because alot of people are under this impression..
oh and as far as sales go..They have a small number of misguided individuals who are determined to go against the grain..those people looking to be the "center of attention" like Kyo 2000
and new customers ignorant to what's really going on ...

Apparently the NGF HYPE is bigger than the # of customers because nobody deems it necessary to take action against those two fools..
I mean what they are really offering is merchandise they purchase..they then destroy the authenticity of the merchandise which they are free to do and sell it for whatever they wish..Now if some DOPE wants to purchase a worthless game for 1000.00 who's fault is that??
it's all about being an educated consumer...
What they sell is a fake "status"..their name brand is best and evry other reseller is the lesser..
-BB

Argentina94 · Nov 7, 2002

I think we've lost sight of the intention of this thread (like, I'm sure, Kenny feared would happen).

As for the question of the quality of the inserts, NGF does make good quality inserts, barring their business practises. I do own 4 inserts from them (since I could not locate original replacements anywhere, I required at least very high quality copies) and they are of extremely good quality, though not up to par with the originals' printing quality.

I doubt the ones I own are of the same quality as the KOF 2000 of which Kenny speaks of since he is very adamant as to the closeness to the originals.

But there is no mistaking that they do make good quality insert replacements, albeit with the NGF logo over the prefered SNK one.

Their business practises with home carts and pricing of which are another matter entirely and can't comment on since I don't have any experience with them and very likely never will, since their prices are quite expensive and with all the stories laid out on the forums, have to admit to feeling rather skeptical about sending large sums of money to them for carts.

Kpj · Nov 8, 2002

Thanks all for the added information, especially BBs older thread.

What I found interesting is where Chimpmeister states differences between official SNK releases & this "supposed" release.

Now I would like to touch the cart stick topic. Mine does indeed have square corners, unlike the round corners of the other AES/NGH releases, but the instruction manual is perfect!

Guys, I am sorry if this is giving them a little credit/ego boost, but this is one fine fake.

I have seen various conversions done before, and this is seriously a gem. The instruction manual is the same size as my ROTD US. The quality of the manual is also top-notch.

This may very well be a conversion/fake, but I would like to know who did this masterpiece? If it wasn't for the square corners on the cart sticker, one would truly NOT know this wasn't an official/authentic release.

The only other person on this board that has one that I know of is NSX-T. I am posting a dare.........someone out there send me pictures of a KOF 2000 US AES with ROUND cart sticker corners. This should be interesting.

I will be posting pictures of my cart soon for inspection by others.

Please to not misinterpret what I am doing here. I am not looking to hype this fiasco in anyway. All I am doing is trying to get some answers. I wrote Dion personally to see if he would come forth and clear this cloud up.

We must wait to see what happens!

Kpj · Nov 8, 2002

I just got an email from Dion. I have posted it below so that I may pass on the information:

I don't know what a NGH is. It's not something you can buy because it's a
product code term.

NGH was/is the product code starting letter/prefixes for their games. All games
whether they are AES, MVS, and CDs use the prefix NGH-??? for their
product identification. For example Nam 1975 is NGH-001., Zupapa is NGH-070,
KoF2000 is NGH-257. Again, NGH is just the starting prefix letters for their
inventory code. Not a good term to use to describe a format because it is used
by AES, MVS, and CDs to signify the product number and/or code.

AES = consumer cartridges
MVS = coin-op cartridges
CD = NeoGeo Compact Disc
NGH = prefix for their product code numbers
SNK = old owners of the NeoGeo rights
Aruze = old owners of the NeoGeo rights, current owners of the buildings SNK
used to own.
Playmore = current owners of the NeoGeo rights
NeoGeo fans = people who like, love, enjoy, and/or collect for the NeoGeo
system.
NGF = NeoGeoFreak
NeoGeoFreak = NGF,Yes we are.

As for the English KoF2000, all the people who own the game know that it's 100%
official and authentic.
We had the game proofs MONTHS before the release and we released the English
version a few days before the Japanese release.

Here is some further proof that may help answer some questions you may have:
<a href="http://ngfusa.com/extreme/plates/plates.htm" target="_blank">http://ngfusa.com/extreme/plates/plates.htm</a>

Crossed Swords and a few other games also have square corners.

World Heroes 2 also has square corners.

I think there is about 4 cartridges that for some reason or another have square
corners. Don't let that fact cloud your judgment on the authenticity of the
English KoF2000. Ask people like Mikhail who have seen our documents, receipts,
and printing plates in person.

thank you,
Dion
<a href="http://www.NeoGeoFreak.com" target="_blank">www.NeoGeoFreak.com</a>

Daisuke Jigen · Nov 8, 2002

Just say it.

"This is official because I want it to be! Then I can sell it for lots of mo-nay to make my shallow life meaning ful!"

I've got a great idea for you.

Vending machines.

Spend a tiny amount on the machine, then the product. People pay 200% over cost for everything!

Effortless pricejacking!

Kpj · Nov 8, 2002

Guys,

I just checked my World Heroes 2 EURO cart and it does indeed have square corners.

Kpj

US KOF 2000 NGH/AES Controversy

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