My Samurai Spirits 2 experience...

OK, so I first played the prequel nine/ten years ago on the SNES. Didn't like it. At this point in time, when SNK were all about bad SFII clones like FFS, World Heroes, AOF etc... I simply played it a few times and wrote it off as another piece of shit in the same vein oh_no . So, fast forward nine years. I still like fighting games (even though I'm still shitty at pretty much all of them). SNK have actually offered genuine alternatives to CapCom's games, rather than inferior clones. Although I'm not a fan of the KOF series, I've played a little Last Blade and RBFFS, loved them, and hell, I've always wanted a Neo anyways. So last christmas, I receive the home system as a present from my girlfriend. I've picked up 14 or so home carts since, a particular bargain being Samurai Spirits 1 & 2 for $40, minty, shipped. I play them both, am still none the wiser, and they stay on the shelf for the next six months. So, last week, in search of something to play and bored of the usual suspects, seeing as how every single long-time member of this board seems to rate it so highly, I drag out SS2 to see if I could finally 'get' it. And you know what. FUCKING THANK-YOU PEOPLE . Seriously. How the fuck could I have missed the sheer fucking brilliance of this game for so long? The GFX are still eye-meltingly gorgeous, the sound oozes atmosphere, but the gameplay... I've become increasingly tired of fighters that require you to learn a twenty page list of moves before you can even start to play (Tekken, Soul Calibur), and combo heavy 2D fighters where the purity of a small set of specials and a handful of basic attacks is ignored in favor of button-mashing super-special-look-at-me-no-hands-on-the-control-pad-aren't-I-good-97-hit-combo's and poor sprite rips (MVC2)... and all the time this game has been sat in my home unplayed. I don't know how you guys view it, but for me it's the same pure paper-rock-scissors style of gameplay I loved so much about SFII/Turbo, with even more emphasis on understanding your fighter. Button hammering is punished appropriately, there are no overtly flashy or unecessary specials... everything is so balanced, crisp, and simple. Simply can't believe it's taken me so long to understand. The only bummer on the horizon is that I don't have as much free time on my hands as I used to, so sitting down and mastering each character is probably going to be beyond my reach. Hell, maybe I'll try anyway. Only one question I will ask, it isn't meant to be sarcastic so please don't take it that way, but what the fuck are the kick buttons for? Granted, I'm still a novice, but they just don't seem of much use. And finally, how do SS 3&4 compare to this? Again, seriously, to all you vetrans that have spent so much time praising this game... thanks again.

Some advice, break that up into paragraphs. It's very hard to focus and read a mass of words like that.

FF, SS, WH, and AOF are sf2 clones? I'm glad you got into SS2 finally, but the old SNK was hardly a ripoff of SF2 in terms of gameplay.

ss2 equals SNK in its finest hour

Lee Gray:
ss2 equals SNK in its finest hour

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Add Fatal Fury 2/Special there

If you liked SS2 and are looking forward to play the sequels, you should better go directly to the fourth chapter and skip the third one.

SS3 has some good graphics, but it just doesn't play half as well as SS2. SS4 is a much more decent, complete and gorgeous looking sequel which you should give a try.

You also have SS0, which will be released shortly, but as far as I've played it (the test version) it just feels to me as a revision of SS4 with some new characters.

Finally, if you are into RPGs and know some japanese, you could also give a try to samurai spirits RPG if you own a NeoCD or Playstation (or Saturn?)


[OCEAN]

well i wont diss your layout, etc.. nice post, glad that the ss2 vibe has hit you in full effect.. it rocks. genjuros stage is never gonna get beat as far as im concerned...

yep,ss2 kicks fuckin ass!!
i still dont know what i like better
ss2
or sf2 hyper (arcade version)

definately the 2 best fighting games,if not the best 2 games ever.

sf2 hyper/turbo depth has no equel
but ss2 has great graphics and backgrounds,all the characters i like.and great music

such a hard decision!!

AppleseedCast:

Button hammering is punished appropriately, there are no overtly flashy or unecessary specials... everything is so balanced, crisp, and simple. Simply can't believe it's taken me so long to understand.

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Much better late than never, man! No, but seriously SS2 is also one of my favorite fighters, if not my favorite fighter of all time. Besides the simplicity part (which I love), it also really makes you focus on timing and it's unique "free" combo system (no pre-canned bs here).

When I rediscovered the Neo again, after looking at it longingly for so many years as a child, I thought that I'd be only playing the latest Neo fighters (SS4, LB2, Garou: MOTW, etc.). Those are all great games, but none of them seem to keep me coming back as much as my good old 35 dollar copy of SS2. I was happy to see SS2 as #3 in GMR's latest article about the 5 all-time greatest fighters, but at the same time I think that's maybe rating it a little to low ...

Sam Sho 2 is the definition of timeless gameplay!


buttrock buttrock buttrock drool_2 drool_2 multi_co multi_co

[OCEAN]
[QB] If you liked SS2 and are looking forward to play the sequels, you should better go directly to the fourth chapter and skip the third one.

SS3 has some good graphics, but it just doesn't play half as well as SS2. SS4 is a much more decent, complete and gorgeous looking sequel which you should give a try.

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*waits for Evil Wasabi* annoyed

We haven't had a good SS3/SS4 debate in awhile anyways

Q-

Samurai Spirits II is work of video game art. If you dig SS2, you should also dig SS1 (just a classic), and you'll probably like SS3&4. SS3 you can still get on the cheap, ie under $85.

SS3 has the most incredible sprite artwork of all of them, but the gameplay is a bit broken. Fights are over REAL quick due to unbalanced damage. I like the cast a bit better in 3 and improves in 4. What's great about 3&4 is the decision to either use Slash or Bust verision of the character you selected.

The use of kicks in SS2 is only really useful for a handful of characters. Hamoharu, Genjuro, Ukyo, Hanzo, Galford, Cham Cham, and Nakarou IMO are the only characters with useful kick moves.

All the Samurai Spirits games are fantastic games and all this SS talk makes me crave SS0 that much more drool_2

Definitely a game every last Neo Geo owner should own. The game has it all...
Talk about BANG for your BUCK.
Has got to be the best buy value on the Neo Geo today.
When you read about long time fans complaining about the new stuff,SS2 would be one of the reasons why.
-BB

For all the people who don't like SS3 too much:

Read the first post and replace SS2 for SS3.

Simple as that.

It took me a long time before I started liking SS3, but after many hours and a long time, I have to say that part 3 indeed rocks. I even think it's the best of the whole series, while I always preferred 1,2 and even 4 above part 3.

Give it time people

Maybe Evil Wasabi should come in for some real education.

Setsuna1982:

Lee Gray:
ss2 equals SNK in its finest hour

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Add Fatal Fury 2/Special there

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Funny that as ss2 and ff2 are my two fav neo games

Actually any SamSho version kicks ass!!!

spent 3,5 hours yesterday on SS1 and am still not getting tired of it

buttrock buttrock buttrock buttrock

Big Shady:
Samurai Spirits II is work of video game art. If you dig SS2, you should also dig SS1 (just a classic), and you'll probably like SS3&4. SS3 you can still get on the cheap, ie under $85.

SS3 has the most incredible sprite artwork of all of them, but the gameplay is a bit broken. Fights are over REAL quick due to unbalanced damage. I like the cast a bit better in 3 and improves in 4. What's great about 3&4 is the decision to either use Slash or Bust verision of the character you selected.

The use of kicks in SS2 is only really useful for a handful of characters. Hamoharu, Genjuro, Ukyo, Hanzo, Galford, Cham Cham, and Nakarou IMO are the only characters with useful kick moves.

All the Samurai Spirits games are fantastic games and all this SS talk makes me crave SS0 that much more drool_2

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Actually for kicks.

Genan- His slide is great for getting pressure off or putting pressure on your opponent, and if you're uneasy about air to air with Genan hit kick you'll most likely win, not much damage but safe. Proceed with knees on ground to throw mind games.

Wan Fu- All are cancellable and his C+D kick is one of the fastest sweeps in the game also sets up Benputzan fire bomb traps. C+D jumping also chains to C+D crouching, among other things wink

Earthquake- How do you poke with Earthquake? He's to big and slow, with WICKED priority and range on his kicks! Especially air to air. Sets up some wicked throw wake up games.

Seiger- Another guy with kick ass kicks, seems like big guys got a lot of kick ass kicks. Decent range but more importantly sets up vulcan chip damage, throw games, also body splash crossups. (Splash crossups can be dangerous use with caution)

Jubei- standing kick that hits low. Nuff said. Mainly tick throw setups.

Nicotine- Nicotines kicks can chain into each other, for possible dizzy, drawback....his legs are like 2 pixels long lol.

Kyoshiro- Primarily used to relieve pressure.

Eh that's it but yeah kicks are important. In 3 the are utterly ridiculous. In 4 they've got their place.

Imo, 2 and 3 are the better SS games. 3 does have ridiculous damge and at the higher levels 100% combos. However 4 is all about the push grab, there are infinites galore and death swipes among other things that make Samurai 4 Push grab fest into the worst SS ever.

Stick with SS2 you can't go wrong!
Now if only they'd make a SS2.5
with all SamSho2's characters and gameplay
mechanics, but just add the newer characters.

Oh and forgot my shameless plug.

If you're on the East Coast, a Samurai Shodown II tourney will be happening sometime in October in Philly along with a bunch of other games. Email me at madcowlms@hotmail.com for more info = )

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: UnCauzi ]</small>

Lee Gray:
ss2 equals SNK in its finest hour

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Finest hour "mainstream" (i.e. prior to the 3D revolution), but 1996 - 1997 equals SNK's prime.

the roker:

Lee Gray:
ss2 equals SNK in its finest hour

Click to expand...

Finest hour "mainstream" (i.e. prior to the 3D revolution), but 1996 - 1997 equals SNK's prime.

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Sorry I gotta disagree, I think SNK's finest hour has to be 98-99.

KOF98, LB2, RB2, MOTW.....

Reads like a list of some of the best fighters put out on the system for me.

But back on topic, I too have recently discovered just how fun and straight up GOOD SS2 really is after spending lots of time with SS3 and SS4.

Cham-Cham is just too damn cool! buttrock

Outside of all those cool idiosyncracies I mentioned about Cham Cham, in the other topic. One of the oddest things about Cham Cham is working in her combinations. (Not true combos mind you, but pressure tactics and evil manuevers that you string together)

Even though she carries around a boomerang as big as she does, and her monkey has a few attacks that "mysteriously" are like another (currently missing) Samurai Shodown character. (hint) Some of her most nasty tactics involve the Kick buttons. In fact, they are a heavy part of her game.

For instance. Try jumping in with Cham Cham's 'D'. The one where she sticks her butt out, Yuri style. Notice the evil priority, notice the instant recovery time of the move when you land. Normally, the opponent has to be very very adamant on their anti-air to stop the butt from over-prioritizing their attempt to stop it.

One of the things to try out is, in far distance, throw the boomerang just to annoy the other person or make them defensive. (all the while) you position yourself to Jump Range as soon as you recover from the throw of the boomerang. Jump at them with the Jumping D.

As soon as that connects, no matter if it is blocked or not, do a ducking C (really quick poke that pretty much can't be out poked after the jumping D), straight into her qcf+C or qcf+D, etc. That is the spring attack. Use the stronger version of the spring attack which will act as a cross up. So many people fall for that as it, in itself, is a nasty high/low/crossup game. Even better if you land any of it, then go to the C version of the spring attack, which should connect fast enough.

Another annoying Cham Cham tactic is to abuse her ducking CD slide. Good priority, and fairly mean reach. Basically, these 3 examples work in the idea of seemingly being over-prioritized against your enemies. That is, until they figure out some of the advanced tricks of SS2. Stuff like d,d being a move that ducks under nearly everything, and the df,df which was SNK's first use of invincible rolls. Kind of like the stuff you saw since KOF96, but a tad different in its execution, speed, and timing.

And these are just a bit of the alternate tactics you can use contrary from her Boomerang/Monkey special's Zoning and damage techniques.

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Kirk Foiden ]</small>

SamuraiShodownSensei
Some advice, break that up into paragraphs. It's very hard to focus and read a mass of words like that.

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Yeah, sorry 'bout that. oh_no thing is, I'd just drunk six or seven beers while playing the game for about two hours straight, and the entire experience, plust the alcohol, had left such an impression, I simply ran to the PC and started typing. Almost a religious experience if you will.

SonGohan
FF, SS, WH, and AOF are sf2 clones? I'm glad you got into SS2 finally, but the old SNK was hardly a ripoff of SF2 in terms of gameplay.

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I didn't use the word rip-off, but I think they were inferior clones of a very similar game. Obviously, I'm ruling SS out of that category, but if there's one thing I don't understand, it's the AOF & FF games. Every magazine I own from that period seems to share the same opinion as myself, labeling both series (Real Bout/AOF3 aside) as lazy SF 'tributes'. I'm not saying SF was first, I'm just saying that anyone who can honestly look me in the eye and argue for FF1-3/Special or AOF 1&2 over SF2 Turbo... I would find you either overtly SNK biased, or just plain odd. And World Heroes? How anyone can even attempt to defend this travesty is beyond me. Of course, all of that's just my opinion. wink

Galfordo
Much better late than never, man!

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Fuckin tell me about it! I'm still kicking myself.

One last question, I've played some of both Last Blade games, but not enough to form a concrete opinion. If you were to recommend either game on HC, which one and why?

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: AppleseedCast ]</small>

AppleseedCast:

SonGohan
FF, SS, WH, and AOF are sf2 clones? I'm glad you got into SS2 finally, but the old SNK was hardly a ripoff of SF2 in terms of gameplay.

Click to expand...

I didn't use the word rip--off, but I think they were inferior clones of a very similar game. Obviously, I'm ruling SS out of that category, but if there's one thing I don't understand, it's the AOF & FF games. Every magazine I own from that period seems to share the same opinion as myself, labeling both series (Real Bout/AOF3 aside) as lazy SF 'tributes'. I'm not saying SF was first, I'm just saying that anyone who can honestly look me in the eye and argue for FF1-3/Special or AOF 1&2 over SF2 Turbo... I would find you either overtly SNK biased, or just plain odd. And World Heroes? How anyone can even attempt to defend this travesty is beyond me. Of course, all of that's just my opinion. wink

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You also have to figure at that time period, there weren't many fighters around. SF started the craze, so every fighter to come out would've been compared to it. If you look at the mechanics to those games, they play nothing like Street Fighter. I mean, come on. Let's look at the games:

Fatal Fury Series: Line swaying - Nothing Street Fighter has ever done. Super moves - something Street Fighter didn't borrow until Super Turbo. The combo engine isn't even the same. The FF series on an artistic level is also a lot more colorful and vibrant. FF3 had a 3 line sway system as well. How on earth could anybody say this is anywhere near SF is beyond me. The only thing these two games has is common are the fact that they're fighting games and share quarter circle motions/charge moves. They play nothing alike.

Art of Fighting Series - This plays nothing like SF either, other than your traditional quarter circle motions. This was also the first series to impliment the super desperation move. Your spirit is depleted and recharged as well. You can actually learn super moves (haoshokoken), and build up your power/ki during bonus stages. This game actually had a story too, however cheesy it was. Oh, Ryo kinda looks like Ken. I guess this is why the whole game is an SF clone oh_no

World Heroes Series - This game is an obvious joke, but not really an SF clone. You get cool death matches where you have multiple stages where shit can happen to you (landmines, buzzsaws, lighting bolts, etc), or you can have a hair match (get your hair shaved if you lose). You also have deflect-guard where you can bounce back projectiles at a moments notice. You also can either light tape a button to get the light version, or hold down a couple seconds to get the fierce. There's tons of differences over the series. Some of the characters are uninspiring, but that hardly makes them a clone to SF2, especially when they don't play similar.

If you want a true SF2 ripoff, then you can play Fighters History. That's the only true SF ripoff I can think of. Saying all I've said about the above games does not make me overly SNK biased, nor does it make me odd. It makes me informed on how the games play, and why I played them back in the day along with SF2.

Again, I would point out that I have never used the word rip-off. But let's put it this way... SF2 prompted the explosion in 2D fighters. And by that, I know it didn't invent the genre, but it took a previously stagnant concpept, turned uit on it's head, and shortly afterwards every othe softco had a similar game ready. Everything that appeared after it owed it a little debt in some way, however small - similar to 2D shooters with R-Type. So yes, I do consider the influx of 2D fighters immediately afterwards as clones.

My point basically being, if you're going to be inspired by/clone an exisiting game, then you should to it just as well, if not better. I see where you're coming from about each of these games offering something different, but apart from (arguably) FFS, it didn't really matter what they offered bacause they were shit. I'm looking through old gaming mages at the moment. World Heroes is constantly referred to as a slow, uninteresting and derevative SF2 clone, AOF, am SF2 clone with superb aesthetics, but shitty gameplay. The majority of people both at the time and now would agree with that I think. And all the wiggly blue faces in the world won't alter that. oh_no
I can understand why someone at the time may have played them all alongside each other, but if you were hankering after a little retro 1 on 1 action these days, I'm sure that most people would opt for SF2/FFS and the others prolly woudn't get much of a look in. At the end of the day, you can compare FFS/WHP/AOF1 or 2/SF2 Turbo until you're blue in the face - but only one of them will still be remembered as a true landmark classic twenty years down the line. Having said that, that's all IMO, and opinions are like assholes etc...

greedostick:
sf2 hyper/turbo depth has no equel
but ss2 has great graphics and backgrounds,all the characters i like.and great music

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SS2 is about, ooh lets say, 300 times deeper than SF2 Hyper.

kernow:

greedostick:
sf2 hyper/turbo depth has no equel
but ss2 has great graphics and backgrounds,all the characters i like.and great music

Click to expand...

SS2 is about, ooh lets say, 300 times deeper than SF2 Hyper.

Click to expand...

I 2nd that. SS2 is WAY deeper.

JHendrix:

the roker:

Lee Gray:
ss2 equals SNK in its finest hour

Click to expand...

Finest hour "mainstream" (i.e. prior to the 3D revolution), but 1996 - 1997 equals SNK's prime.

Click to expand...

Sorry I gotta disagree, I think SNK's finest hour has to be 98-99.

KOF98, LB2, RB2, MOTW.....

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KOF 96 and 97, Real Bout special, Last Blade 1 (which looks better than 2), Metal Slug, AOF3, Kizuna Encounter, all were released in this time.

So that's the debute of 2 excellent series (LB and MS), a refinement of 2 other series (KOF 96/97 and RBS), and a game considered to have great graphics (AOF3).

Don't get me wrong, MOTW was excellent, but the other titles you mentioned were merely enchancements of these titles.