Customizable ratios in CvS2

Rugal 3:16 · May 14, 2001

what do you think about the Idea.. this way you can't be overrun by players who pick four ratio 1's WHEN you can customize a default ratio 3 to become ratio 1 and pick four Bosses.. (Geese, Krauser, Rugal, Bison etc.)

Batsu_Power · May 14, 2001

Originally posted by Rugal 3:16:
what do you think about the Idea.. this way you can't be overrun by players who pick four ratio 1's WHEN you can customize a default ratio 3 to become ratio 1 and pick four Bosses.. (Geese, Krauser, Rugal, Bison etc.)

Well, Rugal 3:16.. Adjustable ratio modes are a secret option in the DC version of CvS (Versus Mode only). So you can pick a 4 man-Ratio 1 team of Rugal, Oroch Iori, Geese and Terry, for example. CvS Pro will have that option unlocked and hopefully we'll see the adjustable ratio scheme in the Arcade version of CvS Pro and hopefully CvS2

koolking · May 14, 2001

Thats deadly you know that right though I know this guy all he plays is balrog and benimaru. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

VinylBoy · May 14, 2001

Originally posted by Rugal 3:16:
what do you think about the Idea.. this way you can't be overrun by players who pick four ratio 1's WHEN you can customize a default ratio 3 to become ratio 1 and pick four Bosses.. (Geese, Krauser, Rugal, Bison etc.)

I've said this before... this is how character selections for CvS should have been in the first place. This allows people to make many different teams and more interesting fights.

That way, if you think your turtling Balrog owns all, then you can place him at R4 and test it out. Or, if you think the Geese/Terry alliance is the best, you can do that as well.

I hope that this becomes the standard for CvS2.

Rain · May 14, 2001

I agree. Its seems like the fairest and most interesting of the options availiable to Capcom. Whether they use it is another matter.......

Rugal 3:16 · May 14, 2001

personally i can almost clean sweep almost everybody here in my arcade with the Rugal/Geese team in pair mode, but I feel so limited being tied to that, in a regular play my Rugal/King is nowhere near as effective. I really need Geese as Rugal's subordinate (in my game and not king, how I wish i would know what it feels like to take on four ratio 1's with Rugal and Geese OR what if I can add another BOSS (since i'm a boss user) to their roster.

RiotoftheBlood · May 14, 2001

Originally posted by Rugal 3:16:
what do you think about the Idea.. this way you can't be overrun by players who pick four ratio 1's WHEN you can customize a default ratio 3 to become ratio 1 and pick four Bosses.. (Geese, Krauser, Rugal, Bison etc.)

I like the idea, but I'd still rather have the ratio system out completely. The ratio system would be cool with me if only the bosses were given higher ratios. Example: You're given six points. Most characters (around 75%) are ratio 2. Most of the bosses (around 20%) are ratio 3. The final bosses (for example, a stronger Rugal, Orochi, Shin Akuma, Shin M.Bison) could be ratio 6 characters, if they were playable. That's what I'd like to see. NO RATIO 1 CHARACTERS.

VinylBoy · May 15, 2001

Originally posted by RiotoftheBlood:
I like the idea, but I'd still rather have the ratio system out completely. The ratio system would be cool with me if only the bosses were given higher ratios. Example: You're given six points. Most characters (around 75%) are ratio 2. Most of the bosses (around 20%) are ratio 3. The final bosses (for example, a stronger Rugal, Orochi, Shin Akuma, Shin M.Bison) could be ratio 6 characters, if they were playable. That's what I'd like to see. NO RATIO 1 CHARACTERS.

That idea kinda doesn't work, since there always has to be a lower ranking for weaker characters and so forth. To simplify things, all they should really do is effect the type of damage a character takes across the board.

On top of each character's original strength, weaknesses and stamina, you should also consider regular & DM damages across the ratios. You can do this by basing regular damage being done equally to those of the same ratio. For instance, Mai & Terry both being Ratio 2s do their regular damage to each other.

Mai vs. Yuri, since one is a ratio one, the damage meter should be offset by 1/4. Therefore, Yuri does 75% damage to Mai, whereas Mai can do 125% to Yuri because of the ratio difference. The same would apply for a Yamazaki/Kim (Ratio 2 vs 3) or a Evil Ryu vs Geese (Ratio 3 vs 4).

When there is a 2 point difference with the damage, there should be a 1/2 point difference. Whereas the Ratio 3 does 150% damage for regular moves to Ratio 1, and Ratio 1 does 50% of their regular damage to Ratio 3. Same thing applies to Ratio 2/4 Battles.

Finally, in the last extreme... if a Ratio 4 went up against a Ratio 1, the damage scale should be at like 65-75%... Ratio 4 does anyhwere form 165-175% damage to a ratio 1, whereas the ratio 1 does anywhere from 25%-35% damage... maybe boosting their SDMs to 50% just so that they're clearly not out of the picture entirely.

Adapting something like this, along with adjustable ratios, and you will help to bring more character balance in the game. At least I think so... <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

Krusader · May 15, 2001

There most likely isn't going to be a Ratio system in Capcom vs SNK.

The whole Ratio system was experimental to begin with, and the fact that Pro will get rid of the ratio system (Everyone becomes ratio 2 basically), it means that they're not really serious about balancing it for the next game.

The best way to implement the ratio system is to not have it at all. There were way too many conflictions with it, either being gameplay-wise or character faveourite-wise. Lots of people saw some of their non-main character favourites be pushed down to rat 1, making them less used while ratio 3s were all bosses, and few used the bosses anyways (Besides hardcore Geese, Rugal or Yamazaki fans).

Even a refined ratio system will end up with character "Discrimiation".

RiotoftheBlood · May 16, 2001

Originally posted by VinylBoy:
That idea kinda doesn't work, since there always has to be a lower ranking for weaker characters and so forth. To simplify things, all they should really do is effect the type of damage a character takes across the board.

On top of each character's original strength, weaknesses and stamina, you should also consider regular & DM damages across the ratios. You can do this by basing regular damage being done equally to those of the same ratio. For instance, Mai & Terry both being Ratio 2s do their regular damage to each other.

Mai vs. Yuri, since one is a ratio one, the damage meter should be offset by 1/4. Therefore, Yuri does 75% damage to Mai, whereas Mai can do 125% to Yuri because of the ratio difference. The same would apply for a Yamazaki/Kim (Ratio 2 vs 3) or a Evil Ryu vs Geese (Ratio 3 vs 4).

When there is a 2 point difference with the damage, there should be a 1/2 point difference. Whereas the Ratio 3 does 150% damage for regular moves to Ratio 1, and Ratio 1 does 50% of their regular damage to Ratio 3. Same thing applies to Ratio 2/4 Battles.

Finally, in the last extreme... if a Ratio 4 went up against a Ratio 1, the damage scale should be at like 65-75%... Ratio 4 does anyhwere form 165-175% damage to a ratio 1, whereas the ratio 1 does anywhere from 25%-35% damage... maybe boosting their SDMs to 50% just so that they're clearly not out of the picture entirely.

Adapting something like this, along with adjustable ratios, and you will help to bring more character balance in the game. At least I think so... <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

I firmly believe that my idea would work. The only potential problem is that with six points and no ratio 1 characters, picking a ratio 3 character (boss) would require picking another ratio 3 character to avoid having leftover points.

But I've already thought of that. In fact, it would be great. If you decided to go the 3+3 (or 4+2 for that matter) route, since you'd be playing as bosses and therefore generally bad/evil characters the game would be different. Instead of fighting bosses at the end, you would fight heroes.

And as for adjusting the damage, that's already the case in CvS1.

VinylBoy · May 16, 2001

Originally posted by RiotoftheBlood:
I firmly believe that my idea would work. The only potential problem is that with six points and no ratio 1 characters, picking a ratio 3 character (boss) would require picking another ratio 3 character to avoid having leftover points.

But I've already thought of that. In fact, it would be great. If you decided to go the 3+3 (or 4+2 for that matter) route, since you'd be playing as bosses and therefore generally bad/evil characters the game would be different. Instead of fighting bosses at the end, you would fight heroes.

And as for adjusting the damage, that's already the case in CvS1.

Adjustable ratios are only available in Vs. mode... what I suggest is making them the standard selection process in the game itself. Therefore, people who say that their characters are weak can make them stronger. And those who want to make their "dream teams" can do so at a price.

It's the only viable solution... even if they introduced more "grooves", they still will be faced with those who complain that their characters don't do enough damage for their ratio, or do too much for it. Eliminiating the ratio system altogether would eliminate a slew of options, and would cause the game to have a more strict and stabalized "top tier", which would lead to more predictable and boring gameplay since you'll only see about 1/4 of the game's full roster being played the most. With adjustable ratios, almost any type of tournament result is more logical to appear... someone who is truly a master at a weaker character can place them at R4 and win... or someone can take all the bosses and place them ar R1 and give it their all.

The game will generally be more fun with adjustable ratios. Not to say that 44 characters and some extra grooves won't hurt the mix, but the adjutsable ratio is the only thing they need to make the game a monsterous hit. <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

And yes... 6 points for ratios would be quite nice... but wouldn't it make the game EXTREMELY long against 6 R1s? I personally know a LOT of good R1 players, so this could create a problem for those who would have to wait in line... ROUND 11... FIGHT!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/tickled.gif" border="0">

[ May 16, 2001: Message edited by: VinylBoy ]

RiotoftheBlood · May 16, 2001

Originally posted by VinylBoy:
Adjustable ratios are only available in Vs. mode... what I suggest is making them the standard selection process in the game itself. Therefore, people who say that their characters are weak can make them stronger. And those who want to make their "dream teams" can do so at a price.

It's the only viable solution... even if they introduced more "grooves", they still will be faced with those who complain that their characters don't do enough damage for their ratio, or do too much for it. Eliminiating the ratio system altogether would eliminate a slew of options, and would cause the game to have a more strict and stabalized "top tier", which would lead to more predictable and boring gameplay since you'll only see about 1/4 of the game's full roster being played the most. With adjustable ratios, almost any type of tournament result is more logical to appear... someone who is truly a master at a weaker character can place them at R4 and win... or someone can take all the bosses and place them ar R1 and give it their all.

The game will generally be more fun with adjustable ratios. Not to say that 44 characters and some extra grooves won't hurt the mix, but the adjutsable ratio is the only thing they need to make the game a monsterous hit. <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

And yes... 6 points for ratios would be quite nice... but wouldn't it make the game EXTREMELY long against 6 R1s? I personally know a LOT of good R1 players, so this could create a problem for those who would have to wait in line... ROUND 11... FIGHT!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/tickled.gif" border="0">

[ May 16, 2001: Message edited by: VinylBoy ]

What I meant is lower ratio characters generally take more damage and deal less than higher ratio characters.

VinylBoy · May 16, 2001

Someone has answered my prayers...
According to Madman's Cafe, CvS2 will have a "Flexible Ration System"...

Guys... it sounds as if they're going to have adjustable ratios!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/tickled.gif" border="0">

This, and they're also putting in the King Of Fighters '95 "Dodge" as a fighting Groove, along with the standard SNK & Capcom Grooves.

Oh, and BTW... MAKI looks like she's going to be DA BOMB!!!

Hmmm... Athena, Maki, Terry, Blanka, Yuri, Sakura, DAN... TOO MANY CHARACTERS to choose from. And with adjustable ratios, I think this will be a game for the ages! <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

DCloud · May 18, 2001

their idea of the ratio is really dumb... it would be very imbalance.. very very. i mean, look at king. she's ratio one but she could kick a ratio3's ass. what if she's ratio2? or even 3? or a ratio 3 blanka?

why not make the game 3 on 3 or 2 on 2 or tagteam(lol)

VinylBoy · May 18, 2001

Originally posted by DCloud:
their idea of the ratio is really dumb... it would be very imbalance.. very very. i mean, look at king. she's ratio one but she could kick a ratio3's ass. what if she's ratio2? or even 3? or a ratio 3 blanka?

why not make the game 3 on 3 or 2 on 2 or tagteam(lol)

A R1 King can only beat a R3 if the person using King is good enough to do it. Personally, I don't see why people think King is good in CvS, but that's just me.

With flex ratios, you can take your best anti-King character, place them at a ratio of your choice and beat the daylights out of her. Like for instance, a R3 Nakoruru should take of King VERY easily. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Customizable ratios in CvS2

Rugal 3:16

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Batsu_Power

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koolking

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VinylBoy

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Rain

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DCloud

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