You SNK-fans got beef with Capcom-fans?

[Anecdote]

A friend of mine, a big Capcom-fan, stays away from everything that is SNK. He says that SNK is cool and all, but never gives games like KOF a chance. He also claims he's a big 2D-fighting game fan. How's that for hypocrisy?

Having said that: he doesn't like anything that resembles old-school fighting. Only SFA3's Dramatic Battle has his interest, because it doesn't require 1-on-1 fighting. He is a bit of masher ^_^

Guess what his favourite fighting game is... http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
"Your Street Fighter competitive edge", syeah right...

[fomaman]

what's your point man?

[Mr.KARATE]

??? What is the point If ya don't mind my askin???

[Anecdote]

Gomen-nasai! I forgot to add my punch-line.

What I am saying is that my Capcom friend is a bit of an asshole http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif Been trying convince him to play some KOF. He says: "Yeah yeah, I will." But the truth is (I think) that he hates SNK, but won't admit it. That pisses me off.

We get along, tho. But I could rip his heart out (exaggeration) for being a dumb-ass.

I guess I should go to bed or something. Not making any sense anymore.

------------------
"Your Street Fighter competitive edge", syeah right...

[This message has been edited by Anecdote (edited April 17, 2001).]

[VinylBoy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Anecdote:
A friend of mine, a big Capcom-fan, stays away from everything that is SNK. He says that SNK is cool and all, but never gives games like KOF a chance. He also claims he's a big 2D-fighting game fan. How's that for hypocrisy?

Having said that: he doesn't like anything that resembles old-school fighting. Only SFA3's Dramatic Battle has his interest, because it doesn't require 1-on-1 fighting. He is a bit of masher ^_^

Guess what his favourite fighting game is... http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif



Like it really matters... http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Anyhow, I've come to accept that people get satisfied with the status quo. Just as long as they find themselves succeeding at what the average gameplayer takes as being cool, they won't care about anything else. That's why most US gamers have such a negative bias towards SNK games, or anything that isn't made by Capcom.

In the long run, it's their loss... in the past, I used to try and argue these facts to such closed minded individuals, but now I just ignore them. If someone refuses to open their minds to other things and expand their horizons, then I would just rather let them live in their own little happy, shallow world with the rest of the zombies. Pretty soon, they'll wake up and see that there's more to life than what's shoved at 'em.

[Mr.KARATE]

You just ignore them...if I say thatI prefer SNK (Which I do) I get my ass kicked in school!!!

[homeslice61886]

I got pork.

[Black_Hayato]

First of all he seems not to even understand or respect the other better capcom games. So why would he even understand SNK, or any of sunsofts stuff, and Guilty Gear?

Direct him to SRK and leave him be. Get a kid hooked while there young, and keep em open.

[VinylBoy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Black_Hayato:
First of all he seems not to even understand or respect the other better capcom games. So why would he even understand SNK, or any of sunsofts stuff, and Guilty Gear?

Direct him to SRK and leave him be. Get a kid hooked while there young, and keep em open.

True...
Most people these days that "hate" SNK are those younger gamers that never got a chance to really play the older SNK fighting titles back when they were at their peak (SSII, FFS, AOF2, KOF 94, etc...). They also think Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is the GOD of fighters. Not that I have anything against spasmastic, button mashing fighters that are actually lost copies of "Duck Hunt" in disguise... http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

If they want to stay "oblivious" to the rest of the world just because they found their validating crowd acceptance being tops in a Capcom game, let them be. It means another vacant space for more mature gamers when someone challenges you on that MVS machine in the corner of your arcade.

[This message has been edited by VinylBoy (edited April 17, 2001).]

[ShinYagami]

Hm.

I played a friend of mine in KOF '98. I took it easy with him the first couple of rounds, but after he got his confidence up and started talkin shit, I crushed him. And he then said:

" I don't like this fake Street Fighter. "

I laughed until my throat was sore. Then I went to tell him that characters that he liked from a long time ago were from Fatal Fury ( Andy for one )and AOF and so on.

He now plays KOF a lot now...but then there are the ones that are diehard, on either side, and will never change I let them stay in their own world; nothing I do or say would change their beliefs.

My view?? Hell, I'll play anything as long as I can enjoy it, but I have a soft spot for SNK. But I won't stand here and say that I hate Capcom; I play their games as well.



------------------
" I will not be denied. "

[JIrish]

I must be in the minority here, since I can appriciate both Capcom and SNK games equally. I just shake my head whenever I hear fanatics on one side diss the other or make snide comments about the people who play them. To me, a comparison between, say, KOF 99 and MvsC2 (two games I own and enjoy) is like apples and a ham sandwich; both make good snacks, but there's a lot of difference between the two. Both companies are hardly perfect; I admit I'm not all that big on Capcom's penchant delays and sprite recycling, and I wish SNK had managed to better advertise their games (that's something I always thought they needed help with). Still, I like the products that come out of both of the two companies, and likely will for the forseeable future.

I have to agree with a number of the people who've said that the diehards on either side probably need more convincing than I have the paitence for.

[koolking]

The thing is though from what you said about SNK and Capcom. People who play SNK games have a greater commitment to their games than capcom people do think about it people would travel pretty far to paly kof. While people devoted to the good capcom games which are few wouldn't
------------------------------
Nasakenai

[Apathy Wind]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JIrish:
I must be in the minority here, since I can appriciate both Capcom and SNK games equally.

Make room in that minority for one more than. I love SNK fighters and I love Capcom fighters. I really don't know why people worship one company and hate the other. You might have a favorite between the two but there's no reason to hate the other just because their business rivals. And like JIrish said, both companies do dumb thing that irritate you - but thats business for you, no real reason to hate their games. You'd just be missing out on one of the companies great titles. It's just like the old Sega/Nintendo (or PS/Sega/Nintendo, PS2/DC, etc.) debates - if you can afford both, then why automatically shun one just for it's brand name? Go for the best of both worlds. I would have hated to have missed out on Samurai Shodown, Streetfighter, Fatal Fury, or Darkstalkers just because of the label.

Stuff like MvC2 being the current rage is in part due to state of videogames today. Serious fighters like KoF, SF etc tend to be less about killer graphics and flash then solid gameplay. In todays PS2/Xbox/Megasystem 2000 market, the kids playing these games are used to the 10 million polygon, FMV etc graphic level. Look at the Final Fantasy series; it had okay US sales until it went on the PS and sported snazzy graphics and effects. Then that series went through the roof; despite the fact that the actual gameplay isn't significantly better than the 2D super-deformed FF's. So fighters like MvC2 and Tekken appeal to that generation with their flashy graphics and spastic gameplay. Those games can be fun for a while, but being 'raised' in the day of serious gameplay I prefer the strategic fighters. I think there is room in gaming for both types of games. So next time some kid tells you MvC2 is the best game EVER, just try and think where he's coming from (unless you're bigger than he is - then you get him in a headlock 'til he recants).

[Brandon St Randy]

Hell, i love both companies.

I DO admit i play KOF more than SF.

I love SF3, MvC2, SFA3. Lots of fun.

[Batsu_Power]

I'm a big Fan of Both Capcom & SNK. But my affinity to SNK characters have increased in these days, like K', Lee Rekka, Yamazaki, Iori and others. Capcom has it's fair share of cool characters too, like 'Gief, Sagat, Urien, Batsu and many. So I'd say that both companies rule in my book.

------------------
Sonomama Shine....
Beware of the wrath of Burning Batsu!.... and Dan's Super Taunts!!!

[This message has been edited by Batsu_Power (edited April 17, 2001).]

[Black_Hayato]

Crazy Bi-Partisanship! They say it'll never work!

[PrOzErG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Batsu_Power:
I'm a big Fan of Both Capcom & SNK. But my affinity to SNK characters have increased in these days, like K', Lee Rekka, Yamazaki, Iori and others. Capcom has it's fair share of cool characters too, like 'Gief, Sagat, Urien, Batsu and many. So I'd say that both companies rule in my book.



Yes but did you notice Capcom has many look alike char's ?? Like Dan Ryu Ken Akuma ?? They all have the same outfit that's not original you see they just changed the color's of the outfit and changed the head of the char and the move's did you see Snk char's like that ??



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http://content.communities.msn.ca/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=prozerg&ID_Topic=1&ID_Message=28
"So you think you can beat me.?"

[Brandon St Randy]

I dont think ANY character in SNK has the headswap other than these ninja dudes from Kizuna Encounter. any others if im mistaken?

[Black_Hayato]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Sogetsu and Kazuki in Samsho 3, but got separated in 4.



[This message has been edited by Black_Hayato (edited April 17, 2001).]

[Brandon St Randy]

they werent in SS3...

[PrOzErG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daigo:
I dont think ANY character in SNK has the headswap other than these ninja dudes from Kizuna Encounter. any others if im mistaken?

HMMMMM...... Maybe Shingo and Kyo ?? I will go check out and tell you guy's later !

[Black_Hayato]

Heh, my bad! I should check out three, I only have 4 and 1 to go by. I hate screwin up like that.

[Neo Rasa]

Ralf and Clark were head swaps in '94 and '95.

Edit:
Just in '94, in '95 Clark got that cool stance.

[This message has been edited by Neo Rasa (edited April 17, 2001).]

[Apathy Wind]

Don't Vice and Mature share some body frames? In their Decide special at least. But I guess it's kind of the point for them to look the same (they can do no wrong in my eyes!).

Yeah, the Shoto characters in SF are kinda cheesy. I don't know if Dan really counts as a 'pure' Shoto clone as he was supposed to be a joke originally. Fortunately Capcom seems to be getting away from that somewhat - no new Shoto body clones since Sean.

[Bufa]

I think Jae Hoon and Dong Hwan share most standard moves, and some specials. the Shikyo and Mukuro from Last Blade and Last Blade 2 are head swaps, i think.

[steveold]

I respect and enjoy playing both companies' games equally.

[SublimeFan]

Bah!! I can't pick only one!! They both have their qualities!!

Capcom: Seems to have more comicy like characters, the kind that you'd expect to see in the pages next to the guys from that other game (which shall remain nameless). Truthfully, their fighting games AREN'T their best, but their other games are. Games like Street Fighter are fun, but not as much as....

SNK: Their fighting games aren't only the best fighting games, but possibly the best games all around. The "funness" factor on them is an 11. They actually require some skills, and in games like Samurai Shodown, button mashing won't even give you a chance. Not only are the fighting games good, there are the classics. I dunno what I would think of video games if I never played Magician Lord, or NAM 1975. Also, Puzzle Bobble is the best puzzle game ever made (in my opinion).

Ah, WTF am I saying?!?! SNK by far!!

------------------
~ "They told me to shoot straight,
don't pull the trigger, squeeze.
That way its sure to kill,
a kill is what you want,
a kill is why we breed"
- NoFX, The Decline

[Living Legend]

I like both companies but I like SNK fighters more than Capcom by far. Capcom is my favorite company though!

------------------
Hmmm!!! Meat!!!
Don't waste my time with your weak skills, scrub!!!

[Ryoandr]

I enjoy good fighters, be them from SNK, Capcom, Namco, Sega, or even Midway (well, MK2, that is).

The thing I see is that often the KoF'ers and the VS'ers are the ones who flame; usually, Savior/Showdown/Garou are more open minded...

One thing you cannot deny, is that SNK does a horrible bug removal/playtest job, specially in KoFs, since 94 there is at least one gameplay or bug problem. Capcom does a better job in regular games (I know VS games are full of crap, is to be expected since they are "expotential" games...).

Oh and where would the world be without Final Fight, or SF/SF2; and where, oh where would SNK had been without Capcom...

[A_Sombra]

The SFers flame because of the obvious derivative nature of AoF from SF. How's that for a longstanding grudge? And of course, Galford's mirror image super is a rip-off of the Darkness Illusion, Hanzo's SPD is a rip-off of Zangief's SPD, etc, etc.

SNKer's flame Capcom for being a buncha money grubbing whores... not that I have anything anything against being moneygrubbing or a whore of course.

Erratically,

A Sombra

[PrOzErG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ryoandr:
would SNK had been without Capcom...

HHMMM....... You mean were would Capcom been without Snk......................

[Ryoandr]

humm...

Since what Capcom game can you 2-1? SF2

Since what SNK game can you 2-1? FFS (not FF2)


What Ryu has since SF1 (yes, Street Fighter...)? A projectile, an anti-air attack, an advancing kick attack.

What Terry/Ryo/Kyo got when they were introduced? A projectile, an anti-air attack, an advancing kick attack.


What was introduced in Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter? Assist system.

What was introduced in KoF 99? Striker system.


What was introduced in Marvel vs Capcom 2? Alpha/Beta/Gamma "anytime" Assists.

What was introduced in KoF2000? Active Striker System.


And, yes I also know:

What was introduced in Fatal Fury? 2p co-op.

What was introduced in SFZ? Dramatic battle.


What was introduced in AoF? Power meter.

What Was introduced in SSF2X? Super combo gauge.

among other things that I'm too tired to enumerate...

Speaking of features, what was the first?

Vampire: Guard Cancel
or
KoF94/95: Undocumented guard cancel

I don't know myself since both Vampire and kof94 are from 1994, also I don't know if Kof94 had the Guard cancel...

[This message has been edited by Ryoandr (edited April 18, 2001).]

[VinylBoy]

In response to a post by Ryoandr...

I find myself saying things like this all the time to newbies... it's almost becoming a habit. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Before I go into detail to the mistakes in some of your findings, lemme first go out to say that SFII set the standards for the modern day fighting game back in 1991. That is a definite fact... so it's obvious that you'll see similairties with characters having fireball/anti-air movements similar to Ryu and Ken. But THAT'S where it ends. Saying Terry Bogard is a rip-off from Ryu & Ken is incorrect. First off, the fireball is a ground projectile... the uppercut (in question) or Rising Tackle is a charge move, unlike the Shoryuken... and back then, the crack shot could only connect for one hit, which makes Terry stand out even further from Ken. Sure, he has a projectile, an anti-air, and a forward progressing kick. But doesn't 95% of all other Martial Arts have that as well (minus the fireballs)? In other words... the Shoto style was the first fighting style, and all other ones with projectiles and anti airs are versions of the shoto style. If that was true, then Guile and Sagat from SF2 are ALSO shotos. We all know that this is incorrect...

About team assists? KOF '94 was the first to do so... if you were grabbed by your opponent in your corner, by pressing A+B+C+D you can call out a member on your team (if they haven't been used and if they were on the screen). They would jump out and break the hold. This is the earliest form of the assist. Capcom adapted this and made their tweaks, which lead to the assists we see today in the Vs series, and again in modern day KOF.

And as for the Vs game itself? The judges are still out on this one, but didn't Kizuna Encounter come out before X-Men vs. Street Fighter? That would be another plus, for then they would have been the first to implement tagging, double team assists and tag zones.

AOF brought in "ki" meters and supers...

The concept of the Super Meter exitsed in Samurai Shodown... it was a meter that constantly raised in power, then at MAX you were rewarded with double damage abilities for a limited time. Sure, Capcom went a step further and used it for Supers... but SNK once again invented the concept.

And from what I could remember, you could ALWAYS combo in FF2 (2-in-1) and FFS... the only differences between the two games is the addition of Ryo, useable boss characters and some minor system tweaks.

There's many more I could go on to explain... but food just got delivered to my door. I shall take a break now... http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by VinylBoy (edited April 18, 2001).]

[Bufa]

i'f you feel im being biased, go ahead and correct me. i don't have as much knowledge of Capcom games as i do of SNK's.

recently, i've seen judging the SNK/Capcom deal on two criteria. Visual effects and gameplay. regardless of current popularity.

i'll get to the point here, so you don't have to read what i have below, and you can skip to the next post.

Capcom succeeds in what gamers instantly want: Eye-candy, and a shallow learning curve. SNK is a bit more attentive to gameplay, what the more serious gamers want.

The Eye-candy bit: this is easy. when you do a SC finish in Marvel vs Capcom 2 you can't be at least mesmerised by all the pretty effects.
the shallow learning curve: make the end-gamer feel happy about himself. when a buttonmasher inputs a simple qcf + PPP in MvsC2, you'll probably recognise him thinking/saying something like, "wow. did i do that?" it makes him feel happy about himself. that's all your standard arcade game is about, making the gamer feel happy that he put him coin into that particular game.

now, i tend to see KoF as going beyond looks, it's more focused on gameplay. '98 is a perfect example of that. nearly everything is balanced. SNK has focused on preventing people from being cheap bastards. like how that Valle guy said, commenting on playing KoF (i think): "rolling under my fireballs? that's pretty cheap." i forget who said it, but whoever said that SNK games aren't entirely about fireballs, is just more clearly illustrating the point im trying to make here. you can't get away with anything too cheap too easily.

oh yeah, the who invented what first? i'd have to say SNK invented as many additions to the fighting game engine as Capcom, if not more. it's just the ignorant capcommunists that believe that Capcom made everything, based on the fact that they saw it first on a capcom game. (oops, that's a bit biased...) like the discovery of penicillin, the scientist left it in his lab, but it was his cohort that realised what good it was capable of.

*yawn*

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- Bufa [Site: Freakling (http://www.geocities.com/site_freakling/)]
The Baxendell Manouvre punishes the cheap.

[Apathy Wind]

Well I'm not going to get into a pointless Capcom/SNK invented this or that argument. It's really not important. Capcom and SNK have both shaped the 2D fighting scene by developing new ideas and expanding one those used in other fighters. That's the beauty of there being two major 2D fighter producers - the competition helps each make better products.

Bufa: You make some interesting points but you can't really compare a serious fighter like KoF to flash fighters like MvC2. Serious Capcom fighters (ala SF) have a much deeper learning curve then the VS. games. Hell, programming my VCR has a higher learning curve then MvC2.

[Black_Hayato]

The spread of who got what from who is fairly even. One couldn've done w/o the other. Its a give and trade.

Thats how innovation works, one person builds w/ the tools before him (and then some), to create anew.

[RiotoftheBlood]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PrOzErG:
Yes but did you notice Capcom has many look alike char's ?? Like Dan Ryu Ken Akuma ?? They all have the same outfit that's not original you see they just changed the color's of the outfit and changed the head of the char and the move's did you see Snk char's like that ??

Certainly...

Vice & Mature -- KoF '96
Ralf & Clark -- KoF '95
Ryo & Takuma -- KoF '95

--Riot--

[kazuki1313]

I liked playing both Capcom and SNK games,I never got into this little Capcom/SNK war.I just look at it as one company was makeing fighting games that were good (cool) then I found out about another company who made good fighting games also (very cool) :P

------------------
what!?!?! I don't have one yet,go away!

[RiotoftheBlood]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PrOzErG:
HHMMM....... You mean were would Capcom been without Snk......................

No... you are wrong. SNK hired away many of Capcom's developers, and that's when they started to become good. It's no coincidence. I'll concede that having competition from SNK definitely made Capcom better, but there's no way that you can tell me honestly that Capcom depends or did depend on SNK.

[PrOzErG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RiotoftheBlood:
No... you are wrong. SNK hired away many of Capcom's developers, and that's when they started to become good. It's no coincidence. I'll concede that having competition from SNK definitely made Capcom better, but there's no way that you can tell me honestly that Capcom depends or did depend on SNK.

.................Tink a little boy

[chohan]

I must be lucky. I know many people who like SNK better then capcom. Some even say Street Fighter sucks compared to KoF. My bro likes Capcom better = fun in MotM http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif But I like Capcom games and people who like Capcom that is oke with me. Besides Capcom and SNK are one right? Employes have worked at both companies and meaby SNK and Capcom are getting one company sooner or later. As long as we get to play KoF,SS,LB,MetalSlug,FF etc http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Cho



------------------
''Do as you like, it is not my job to kill you''

[chohan]

Riot SNK has some ''look alike'' fighters but those are just pares of two. Streetfighter has; Ryu,Ken,Dan,Akuma,Sakura,Evil Ryu. It is just driving me crazy. They all do the same exept for very little differentces. Look at there feets for example, all there feets are the same. And then you got Cammy and those two copies Juli and Juni. I liked Streetfighter better when there weren't so many same styled characters. Just with the old 16 basic fighters. Still ofcource Streetfighter is a great fighting game.

Cho


------------------
''Do as you like, it is not my job to kill you''

[Ryoandr]

did you at the very least tried to actually learn the differences between Cammy, Juni and Juli??!? I know that Juli is just a toned down Cammy but Juni is MUCH different and harder to learn.

[Bufa]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Apathy Wind:
Bufa: You make some interesting points but you can't really compare a serious fighter like KoF to flash fighters like MvC2. Serious Capcom fighters (ala SF) have a much deeper learning curve then the VS. games. Hell, programming my VCR has a higher learning curve then MvC2.

are you saying you can make your VCR clock tell the proper time? http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif ooooooohhhhh...

yeah, i guess you can't. (i knew i was being biased somewhere.) http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif im just trying to say that MvC2 is about visually giving the player a euphoric high, while KoF is more about gameplay equality. that's unfair, i guess, putting Capcom's flagship as MvsC2. oops. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

let me demonstrate in a poorly drawn picture, illustrating the importance of each aspect.
Eye-candy-----------50-----------Gameplay
__A____________B_________C_____
[_______________________________]

A: Marvel vs Capcom 2
B: Street Fighter Alpha
C: King of Fighters

Marvel vs Capcom 2 is just completely based on visual effects. i think nearly everybody agrees with me there, the learning curve is aimed at the more un-coordinated, basic gamers.

SF Alpha still has it's gameplay aspects, Alpha counters, for example. the SFA series cheap-bastard prevention device. I'm putting it closer to the centre because it's the sprite art is 'cleaner' than KoF's. any ignorant capcommunist that argues SFA plays better than KoF is just completely off.

KoF is not at the very end of the spectrum, we aren't playing Stickman 2: Hyper Fighting, fer god sakes.

i'm still wondering where i could put Street Fighter 3 and Garou:MotW. they succeed in both areas of criteria.

i'm done rambling.
[edited to fix fugly diagram]
------------------
- Bufa [Site: Freakling (http://www.geocities.com/site_freakling/)]
The Baxendell Manouvre punishes the cheap.

[This message has been edited by Bufa (edited April 19, 2001).]

[Black_Hayato]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bufa:
are you saying you can make your VCR clock tell the proper time? http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif ooooooohhhhh...

yeah, i guess you can't. (i knew i was being biased somewhere.) http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif im just trying to say that MvC2 is about visually giving the player a euphoric high, while KoF is more about gameplay equality. that's unfair, i guess, putting Capcom's flagship as MvsC2. oops. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

let me demonstrate in a poorly drawn picture, illustrating the importance of each aspect.
Eye-candy-----------50-----------Gameplay
__A____________B_________C_____
[_______________________________]

A: Marvel vs Capcom 2
B: Street Fighter Alpha
C: King of Fighters

Marvel vs Capcom 2 is just completely based on visual effects. i think nearly everybody agrees with me there, the learning curve is aimed at the more un-coordinated, basic gamers.

SF Alpha still has it's gameplay aspects, Alpha counters, for example. the SFA series cheap-bastard prevention device. I'm putting it closer to the centre because it's the sprite art is 'cleaner' than KoF's. any ignorant capcommunist that argues SFA plays better than KoF is just completely off.

KoF is not at the very end of the spectrum, we aren't playing Stickman 2: Hyper Fighting, fer god sakes.

i'm still wondering where i could put Street Fighter 3 and Garou:MotW. they succeed in both areas of criteria.

i'm done rambling.
[edited to fix fugly diagram]

YOur wrong about MVC2 being for the basic gamer. From what I learned, the forced team play aspects of the game(assists). Have made the gameplay a focus of breaking the defense. In higher levels of play, there can be almost no turtling, or you'll be trapped. The open ended gameplay has given the players the ability stretch the limit of the engine so that the game plays in an new unorthodox manner. One thats unconvential and turns off others. GGX is similar in this regard, with the combo system being looser in the areas, you'd think it should be. And changed in areas you would expect. I personally think SF3's combo system is perfect, I cant imagine changing it.

Companies are streching the limits, changing the formula. I think of it as an equilizer(stereo). There's a balance that fits for different occasions.

[RiotoftheBlood]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bufa:
are you saying you can make your VCR clock tell the proper time? http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif ooooooohhhhh...

yeah, i guess you can't. (i knew i was being biased somewhere.) http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif im just trying to say that MvC2 is about visually giving the player a euphoric high, while KoF is more about gameplay equality. that's unfair, i guess, putting Capcom's flagship as MvsC2. oops. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

let me demonstrate in a poorly drawn picture, illustrating the importance of each aspect.
Eye-candy-----------50-----------Gameplay
__A____________B_________C_____
[_______________________________]

A: Marvel vs Capcom 2
B: Street Fighter Alpha
C: King of Fighters

Marvel vs Capcom 2 is just completely based on visual effects. i think nearly everybody agrees with me there, the learning curve is aimed at the more un-coordinated, basic gamers.

SF Alpha still has it's gameplay aspects, Alpha counters, for example. the SFA series cheap-bastard prevention device. I'm putting it closer to the centre because it's the sprite art is 'cleaner' than KoF's. any ignorant capcommunist that argues SFA plays better than KoF is just completely off.

KoF is not at the very end of the spectrum, we aren't playing Stickman 2: Hyper Fighting, fer god sakes.

i'm still wondering where i could put Street Fighter 3 and Garou:MotW. they succeed in both areas of criteria.

i'm done rambling.
[edited to fix fugly diagram]

MvC2 completely for visual effects? No way. MvC2, if anything, was completely for fun.

[RiotoftheBlood]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chohan:
Riot SNK has some ''look alike'' fighters but those are just pares of two. Streetfighter has; Ryu,Ken,Dan,Akuma,Sakura,Evil Ryu. It is just driving me crazy. They all do the same exept for very little differentces. Look at there feets for example, all there feets are the same. And then you got Cammy and those two copies Juli and Juni. I liked Streetfighter better when there weren't so many same styled characters. Just with the old 16 basic fighters. Still ofcource Streetfighter is a great fighting game.

Cho




I can't believe that you included Sakura there. Sakura is way more different from any of the shotos than any of the pairs I mentioned are. And you can't really count Dan, because he was a blatant joke of Ryo, who was a blatant copy of Ryu (and anyone who doesn't think so is way too SNK-jaded).

[Krusader]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RiotoftheBlood:
I can't believe that you included Sakura there. Sakura is way more different from any of the shotos than any of the pairs I mentioned are. And you can't really count Dan, because he was a blatant joke of Ryo, who was a blatant copy of Ryu (and anyone who doesn't think so is way too SNK-jaded).

I thought it was proved a while ago that both Street Fighter and Art of Fighting were created by the same guy.

The man behind SF2 left Capcom right after and joined SNK, which then made AOF. Nothing is ripped off since its the same guy's work. It's as futile as saying Chrono Trigger's art is a blatant copy of Dragon Ball Z.

[kim6413]

i enjoy both companies games. Im still new to snk games but snk games are a very nice change from capcom games http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[RiotoftheBlood]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Krusader:
I thought it was proved a while ago that both Street Fighter and Art of Fighting were created by the same guy.

The man behind SF2 left Capcom right after and joined SNK, which then made AOF. Nothing is ripped off since its the same guy's work. It's as futile as saying Chrono Trigger's art is a blatant copy of Dragon Ball Z.

I didn't know that. Still, the characters Ryo was derived from, Ryu and Ken, have always belonged to Capcom, not to their creator.

[Bufa]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RiotoftheBlood:
MvC2 completely for visual effects? No way. MvC2, if anything, was completely for fun.

okay, i just going to rename a few things on my fugly diagram.

gameplay -> gameplay equality
(the attention given to making the game fair and balanced, and to prevent cheap gameplay) SNK doesn't completely succeed in this, just look at KoF 2000. :/ what a truly hardcore gamer recognises in games)

visual effects -> fun/attractiveness
(yeah, what attracts a casual gamer. just the instant fun rating, based on visual and sound quality, etc. what a masher or the casual gamer sees in the game's attract mode.)

Black_Hayato: yeah, id say they'd have to be equalizer diagrams as well, i had some trouble deciding where to put SFA. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif that's why i said it was a fugly diagram. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/tongue.gif maybe i should draw another diagram on who the game is aimed at, casual gamers or arcade junkies.

this is probably going to be the last time i post here, this is turning into too much of a technical discussion, and i'm too lazy to generate evidence. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[Bufa]

sorry to spam, but i just found out that i have completely forgotten what (and why) i was arguing for/against on this topic. o_0

[Anecdote]

A bit late...

You raise a good point with the argument flash vs gameplay. It's in people's nature to do stuff that is easy. Everbody wants to have the idea that they are good at something. In MvC2 you can do amazing looking stuff very easily. Higher levels of gameplay in MvC2 are quite difficult, tho. The game in general is very accessible. The fact that it has very popular Marvel charas and the SF-gang in it doesn't hurt either.

I still have some beef with my Capcom buddy. I know he's not into games that require the precision and technique of KOF and the old school SF's, but it's no excuse not to even give it a chance.

It's like saying that sushi sucks without having actually eaten it.

*feels stomach rumbling*

*goes out and gets some Japanese food*

Yes, I know sushi is a bad example http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif Cos it rulez.


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"Your Street Fighter competitive edge", syeah right...

[YeldellGW]

All this talk about lookalikes and I can't belive you guys forgot Hanzou and Fuuma.

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"Don't be scared! I'll only cut off one of your heads! Guess!"

[Rain]

I'm really surprised that Capcom didn't sue ADK for that. I mean you had loads of Capcom character clones in the original game, Brocken = M. Bison, Muscle Power = Zangief, Janne = Guile Etc. Instead they sue Power Athlete. WTF????