Normal grabs

In my country (Singapore), when we are being challenged in a KOF game, a LOT of people don't play grabs. Talking about normal grabs here.

For example, is Player A grabs Player B, then Player A would walk towards B and let him grab him back.

I don't understand what is wrong with this grabbing thingy... I mean, for those people who keep rolling and rolling, you either combo them up with a light kick, light punch + some other moves or just give him a grab to stop his rolling nonsense.

I don't understand why grabs are not used. Is it just my country or do you guys don't play grabs as well?

Last thing: grabs are part of the game..., it's not a bug, so why do some people not use it?

Thanks for the replies to come.

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"Be your true mind..."
- Revelations Persona -

Originally posted by Mystical:

In my country (Singapore), when we are being challenged in a KOF game, a LOT of people don't play grabs. Talking about normal grabs here.


Yeah, a lot of people laugh at that country for thinking so... They can do infinites, they can turtle, but they can't normal throw?



For example, is Player A grabs Player B, then Player A would walk towards B and let him grab him back.


Yeah, that is one of the stupidest thing I have ever heard.



I don't understand what is wrong with this grabbing thingy... I mean, for those people who keep rolling and rolling, you either combo them up with a light kick, light punch + some other moves or just give him a grab to stop his rolling nonsense.


Or you can super combo them... For some reason now, I stop rolling, period. I used to roll a lot back in '98.



I don't understand why grabs are not used. Is it just my country or do you guys don't play grabs as well?


Well, a lot of people, even the good players, think grabs are cheap. But I don't think other countries have that throwing rule like in Singapore. However, I heard you get shot for normal throwing in certain countries though... ^_^



Last thing: grabs are part of the game..., it's not a bug, so why do some people not use it?


Well, I use throws all the time... My Joe rules for this reason.

Of course, grab is part of the game; if not, then SNK would have taken it out like they would with infinites.

I think it's because some people find that grabs are cheap because it's a no brainer for doing it. You get to inflict damage on your opponent just by being near him and pressing fwd/bk C/D without any effort. Some normal grabs take up too much damage (Kula's C throw anyone?). And now that you can combo throws with DMs after calling a striker, I can see why they don't like throws.

I think the no-throw rule is ridiculous. You roll too much, of course you're gonna get thrown. And it's freaking easy to get a tech hit now in KOF2K. I've only experienced it once in Sydney, when a guy threw me once accidentally and walked his character towards me requesting that I throw him.

But I wouldn't mind SNK introducing a new button layout for throws. For example, making the buttons AD for throws.

Fat Cat Lim

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Mysterious. Debonair. Criminally Insane.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fat Cat Lim:
Some normal grabs take up too much damage (Kula's C throw anyone?). And now that you can combo throws with DMs after calling a striker, I can see why they don't like throws.

But I wouldn't mind SNK introducing a new button layout for throws. For example, making the buttons AD for throws.

Fat Cat Lim

Click to expand...

Fat Cat Lim is right with the throws doing too much damage,one time when I was versing this guy he just kept walking towards me and just C-ed me with Chin(he was going crazy with the joystick whenever he started to do that,reminds me of a time when I was versing Fat Cat Lim with Kula )

Hmm,having a throw system like 3rd Strike,that might work but then people will think that SNK never has any real ideas

[This message has been edited by hebretto (edited April 25, 2001).]

there are shitloads other things that id call "cheap"...

normal grabs are absolutely legit far as i'm concerned

just my two cents

I don't know, I think grabs are there for a reason. If people start bitching about having "no grabs matches", then I guess they should do what they did in third strike, too. Make the grabing a combo of two buttons, so this way you cannot say it was an accident. You still don't like grabs after that? Then, stop playing you cry baby, they're there for a reason.

Spike, who hardly ever grabs when he doesn't mean to

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Yeah, Alpha 3 uses the same system too, and throws are harder to pull off accidently.... I really don't see a problem with regular throws at all, as some characters need them more than others, surely it affects balance if throws are banned?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mystical:
In my country (Singapore), when we are being challenged in a KOF game, a LOT of people don't play grabs. Talking about normal grabs here.

Click to expand...

ur fellow s'porean here. I know of this stupid rule, but I dun follow it so if u think it's okay to normal slam, y not? Dun restrict urself becos of this stupid rule set by some KS Ah Bengs. Whenever I normal throw someone (intentional or deliberate), either I throw a fireball and or just continue to attack to signal that I dun follow this rule. Yeah I've met some Ah Bengs who KB abt me playing slam but as if they use Joe striker is being honourable like that.

But I do have a personal qualification, I dun rely on normal throws to overly i.e all I do is just jump in and slam. I dun use multi hit slams and if I do I dun go smashing the buttons till the whole machine shakes. Basically I use normal throws to punish turtlers and striker happy uses. But I must confess that I do hate Kula/Bao uses who abuse their multihit slams, these slam can be consider cheap becos u can't break out of it and they deal substantial damage too. Always wonder why SNk din allow strikers to help u to break out of such slams afterall from '94 ~ '98 ur teammates can help u to do that.



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"I can't lose. For nature's sake"

Yeah, good point that, you would have thought at least a few strikers could interrupt a grab, considering how much some people hate them.

Hmm,having a throw system like 3rd Strike,that might work but then people will think that SNK never has any real ideas


The throw system in 3rd Strike is awful... it forces people to throw a lot when ever they're close because it over priotized everything. A lot of matches in 3S is poke and throw and of course parry; and normal throws are more powerful than command throws. The only way to get out of throws is if both players throw at the same time, which is kinda stupid.

On the contrary, normal throws in KOF2000 suck big time. The system give you the whole day to throw-escape! If you throw-escape, which is very easy to do, you can send your striker and Super easily. But if you throw someone, sending strikers afterward require a striker and a super stock (unlike throw-escapes which require only a striker; therefore, you can do this even on counter/armor mode). Therefore, throw attempts is very risky if your opponent knows how to throw-escape because throw-escape has the upper hand.

However, non-escapable throws are pretty good, but it all depends on who mash the button faster. Still, if you're good enough you can counter these throws easily by sending striker before getting thrown. Or you can always poke all day and you're never get thrown.

But then again, if you're a good K' player, utilizing his C-throw seldomly is to your advantage since K' can send striker, then do a ground combo (like Close C, Fwd A, DM) right afterward. Same with Whip, you can do D-throw, Striker, Low A, then DM.

Me and my mates used to play like this. It occured to me when my friends sat in a corner that I couldn't do anything about it but I was young and just kept my mouth shut and accepted it. Nowadays that seems ridiculous. Throw, tap throw: nothing is cheap anymore it seems.

I been to some pretty mean arcades in hong kong and I believe throws are a strict no-no in some of them.

LB2, Zero 3, and 3rd Strike's two button throw may be great against people, but when you're fighting against the computer it's a nightmare. Am I the only who notices the computer has insane throw range when using standard throws in these games?

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"Don't be scared! I'll only cut off one of your heads! Guess!"

wtf, wat kind of rule is that where you can't throw your opponent?

never heard of it. thank god nothing of these bullshit rules exist in my country.

i mean whats the reason of throws being in the game then?. they are there to be used. it also adds alot of strategy to the game. and if you think that throwing is bad then learn to get away from it with tech hit.

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http://kof.cyberfanatics.org/

YeldellGW: LB2, Zero 3, and 3rd Strike's two button throw may be great against people, but when you're fighting against the computer it's a nightmare. Am I the only who notices the computer has insane throw range when using standard throws in these games?
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Thats totally true. The Cpu just totally takes the piss when it comes to this system.
LB2 Cpu player is a total Bastard, the throw range in the game is nothing, but he seems to be able to grab you from just about anywhere, (I'm sure i got grabbed at sweep range once by Akari) Little Bitch....

Normal throws are ok. I beat a fair amount of Chinese experts because they don't seem to be used to the fact that regular throws are part of the game and *are* escapable.

Tap throws in KoF are great to beat turtlers.

I totally disagree on Bao/Kula C-throw abusers. It's one of the most irritating and dumbest things SNK could have come up with. I think I already told you guys about that one idiot at the arcade who uses that ALL the time with Chang and Bao. You can't break out of it and the damn idiot already broke the controllers several times because he starts shaking the fricken machine while doing the throw. All of us tried to get out of it but it's almost nigh impossible (I mash as hard as him but he still wins?!?!). Do you know how much damage Chang does in armor mode when some idiot like him D mash-throws you?

People might just suggest to just not get hit. Easier said than done. If you have no stock and you get stuck in the corner and you try to roll out of this...

Ugh.

I mean come on, even in MvC2 multi-hit throws are breakable if you mash as much as the other guy... this is ridiculous.

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I eat King sized pancakes for breakfast, Terry-aki burgers for lunch, and meat Jhun with sloppy Joe and Kim chee for dinner. All I need is Kyo to BURN'em.

The throw system sould be like 3s.Most of the multi hit throws only does 6 hits the most,and not alot of damage at that

Multi hit throws should be counted as combos,and the most you can do is about five or something like that instead of ten

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mystical:
In my country (Singapore), when we are being challenged in a KOF game, a LOT of people don't play grabs. Talking about normal grabs here.

For example, is Player A grabs Player B, then Player A would walk towards B and let him grab him back.

I don't understand what is wrong with this grabbing thingy... I mean, for those people who keep rolling and rolling, you either combo them up with a light kick, light punch + some other moves or just give him a grab to stop his rolling nonsense.

I don't understand why grabs are not used. Is it just my country or do you guys don't play grabs as well?

Last thing: grabs are part of the game..., it's not a bug, so why do some people not use it?

Thanks for the replies to come.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you play, but the attitude you speak of is by no means representative of all Singaporeans. The places I play at (Clementi and Orchard Emerald Funland) don't practice such in-house rules. Some players may give you dirty glares, but that's it (and I'm not even talking about *f*** you* stares here.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hebretto:
The throw system sould be like 3s.Most of the multi hit throws only does 6 hits the most,and not alot of damage at that

Click to expand...

Have you really played 3rd Strike?

Everyone throws on every other move, the most abused move beside the parry. And the normal throw is probably the most powerful move up close; it takes out parries/normals/supers/etc.

There are so many ways to kill a thrower in KOF, especially in KOF2000. But if you want throws to be more powerful, just make it like '98/'99 where throw speeds are much faster.

Originally posted by Iie-Kyo:
Normal throws are ok. I beat a fair amount of Chinese experts because they don't seem to be used to the fact that regular throws are part of the game and *are* escapable.


So they don't escape throws then striker then super?


Tap throws in KoF are great to beat turtlers.

I totally disagree on Bao/Kula C-throw abusers. It's one of the most irritating and dumbest things SNK could have come up with.


I thought you said they "are great to beat turtlers". Kula's does the most damage, but that's what made her unique; her throw is almost like a command throw but lacks priority and range. Like I said before, it's so risky to throw someone, even tick throws... you can die trying. You walk up, you eat low B's, you eat Striker, you eat striker DM combos.


All of us tried to get out of it but it's almost nigh impossible (I mash as hard as him but he still wins?!?!).


Have you tried poking, before getting thrown? If you got thrown, the fastest smasher always wins.


Do you know how much damage Chang does in armor mode when some idiot like him D mash-throws you?


I think he's an idiot to use it in the first place. He would be wasting precious Armor Mode time in which he can use the time to kill his opponents easily with his iron ball instead.


People might just suggest to just not get hit. Easier said than done. If you have no stock and you get stuck in the corner and you try to roll out of this...


Ugh... rolling would make your opponents' throws more effective. Try Low B's, Striker, Super... then the person attempting a throw loses half-life trying to get a measley throw damage.


I mean come on, even in MvC2 multi-hit throws are breakable if you mash as much as the other guy... this is ridiculous.


Well, Chang's command throw is much better since you can follow-up strikers, plus the range/damage... I don't know how you would complain about his D-throw instead.

If you mash as hard as the other guy (I'm talking about going nuts with the joystick and buttons and all) you cannot beat him. You know those guys at the arcade who uses the inescapable C or D throws and starts mashing on the thing to a point where the whole machine practically rocks? Well, that Chang/Bao user at my arcade is one of those. Nobody can mash out of his throws because in KoF the the thrower will always beat the throwee even if they both mash at the same speed. The players at the arcade nor I are not intent on breaking the joysticks or buttons to beat the throws (and trust me, this guy has been responsible for quite a few replacements) so there's really nothing much one can do once they get hit by these things.

Nobody at my arcade except maybe me and a few of my friends ever use the escape throw-striker trick, mind you. Why? I don't know. I've seen a Chinese person use it maybe once or twice. I guess maybe these guys were raised with the "no throwing" rule in mind.

Once I went against that same guy mentioned above when he was Bao and I was Kyo. I was actually expecting the throw. I tried doing Kyo's DP + A (which normally stuffs any ground move as long as the DP + A is done at or before the other guy does it) but I saw him grab me outta it with that dang thing. This is proof that yes inescapable throws are like command throws, which makes it almost ridiculous in a game like KoF, where mashing usually shouldn't reward you with 10-20% of your opponent's life gone (but for some characters it does).

Oh, and tise person attempting the throw w/ Chang is smart enough to do attacks while he's trying to get up to you, therefore making any countering attempts impossible (strikers go right through him in armor mode). All you can pray is that you can roll right through the guy so you can run away from 'em (but this is usually not an option when you have less life and limited time).

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I eat King sized pancakes for breakfast, Terry-aki burgers for lunch, and meat Jhun with sloppy Joe and Kim chee for dinner. All I need is Kyo to BURN'em.

"where mashing usually shouldn't reward you with 10-20% of your opponent's life gone (but for some characters it does)"

I'm not sure if there are any 'shouldn't's in KOF. After all, this is the game where you can lose 60+% life just for attacking a blocking opponent (CD counter into striker); live with a hell lot of bugs, some horribly unbalancing ones; lose 100% for a laspe in judgement for a nanosecond.

Yeah, it sucks, but it's a fun kind of sucks.
=>)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mystical:
In my country (Singapore), when we are being challenged in a KOF game, a LOT of people don't play grabs. Talking about normal grabs here.

For example, is Player A grabs Player B, then Player A would walk towards B and let him grab him back.

Click to expand...

That was the "old school chivalry" code... since grabs back in the days of SFII took off almost 1/3 of your life, people tried not to use them in order to actually play the game.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I don't understand what is wrong with this grabbing thingy... I mean, for those people who keep rolling and rolling, you either combo them up with a light kick, light punch + some other moves or just give him a grab to stop his rolling nonsense.

Click to expand...

It's a mixed bag... some people just don't like the idea that the grab takes off so much energy for being such a simple command. Others think that if a person allows their opponent to get too close that they deserved to be grabbed. It's all in how you play the game.

Personally, I like doing combos for they will always do more damage than any grab. If I do grab, I'll let a person get a hit or a grab back... that'll let me know what type of opponent I'm playing against. Then, I just play the game normally.

And it's funny that you mention rolling, for it seems that people who support grabs don't like it and vice versa. Anyhow, in KOF, there are so many ways to prevent turtling that a grab just seems to be the easy way out. Besides, the tech window for grabs is much larger in KOF than in a Capcom title... so if you can't shake off a grab, then you were just asleep at the controls. I remember shaking off someone trying to grab my Kensou with Clark about 7 times in one match... and he was about to call me "cheap".

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I don't understand why grabs are not used. Is it just my country or do you guys don't play grabs as well?

Click to expand...

The biggest supporters of the "grab" philosophy are here in the US... they laugh at the idea of people complaining about grabs being "cheap"... yet there are actually more players that support that idea than the "win at all costs" philosophy. Again, it's just personal choice...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Last thing: grabs are part of the game..., it's not a bug, so why do some people not use it?

Click to expand...

I stated my reasons for not using them a lot. I always try to look for the best way to punish someone, and usually it's a combo... not a grab.

I live in Melbourne and the no normal throw is enforced in a several arcades. Its really stupid when someone says sorry for nomal slamming. Clark should say for doing his command throw. I love to normal because when ppl see you are using a fighter, they will turtle, especially if they use grappler.

Normal throw in KOF is so easy to escape. So much easier than SF. The only way one can be thrown is when he/she is turtling like crazy. The press of any button will break the throw.

Maybe SNK should make normal grabs into semi command throws ie with miss animation and 1/4 the priority.

Normal grabs are good. Sometimes, people will get in the mindset where all they do is focus on blocking. If you toss in throwing, that gives them one extra thing to worry about.

Throwing is not necessarily the easy way out to break a guy's defense, because some guys are damned good at blocking everything, and it's virutally impossible to slip an attack in. But sometimes, those guys are so focused on blocking and expecting attacks, throws will usually get them.

[This message has been edited by BooBoo (edited May 01, 2001).]

Originally posted by AcidicEnema:
<STRONG> I'm not sure where you play, but the attitude you speak of is by no means representative of all Singaporeans. The places I play at (Clementi and Orchard Emerald Funland) don't practice such in-house rules. Some players may give you dirty glares, but that's it (and I'm not even talking about *f*** you* stares here.</STRONG>

Click to expand...

Hey, don't talk as if I'm following the rule. I don't practise such a crap rule as well. I'm amazed at the number of people who practise. What a bunch of morons.

Anyway, I play in many areas in Singapore and this 'grab-issue' happens in:

1. Tampines Mall E-zone
2. Paris Ris E-zone (now closed)
3. Kallang Leisure Park (Some ppl use this rule)
4. Katong Shopping Centre
5. Bedok Genie
6. Bedok Funland
7. Katong Mall
8. Bishan
9. Tampines Mart

Well, that's about the places I can think of that practise the rule. I think the west side doesn't have this stupid rule. Anyway, like I said, I don't practise if and I hate it when ppl say 'Chou!' (dirty) when I grab them when they always attempt to block my attacks, or when they keep turtling.