KOF2k and the lies surrounding it, etc....

(I actually wrote the majority of this the day the news was posted, but just now am taking the time to post it)

For all those questioning NGF's integrity, now here is some damning proof! The latest update to their website with the offer for English KOF2k serious cripples any remaining creditbility (was there any?) they had and shows that they were not telling the truth about the English KOF2k and the '100' copies of it that exists.

It is obvious with this so called 'news' that NGF has been up to its old tricks. Lies, lies and more lies. They posted on the website, and said only 100 copies of the English KOF2k existed, that would be it, no more! The collectors who 'invested' in this game are now getting a stab in the heart. Sure, they will say this additional allocation is 'for the fans' but that is absolute bullshit. These games were sold to the collectors with the fact being that there were only 100 copies, not that they would run to 'the next step up from Kinkos' whenever they wished to make another limited run of 100. Hell, one collector is selling off his collection that has this game on Ebay right now, let me tell you that I was surprised.... The sad thing is that SNK maybe did design the art for them, for a fee, but that does not matter now since with this current move, it proves that they will make these whenever they are needed.

This additional allocation of units is for the matter of coating their pockets with more money, greed pure and simple, and is also PROOF that the game is fake. They had basically built a house of cards with their KOF, and people waivered with it, now their greed has caused that house of card to totally collapse! And part of the reason for this "new production run" of KOF2K "English" would be to pay for the NitD home carts, since they desperately need money for this. Since it is fake, it should be excommunicated from the master list IMMEDIATELY! There is NO WAY additional quantities of this 'limited production run' of catridges could exist at SNK of Japan. And, now it is even doubtful that SNK of Japan was totally involved in this. No warning sticker on the US version? SNK did not forget, obviously NGF does not have any.

What should be done? Well, I think, first of all, anyone who was selling this game 'retail' should seek counsel and pursue NGF legally for their actions. As 'alleged official SNK distributors' they are acting quite unethically. It seems obvious that this is not the case, the distribution deal was all a fantasy they dreamed up. They act as if they are on the playground at school in recess, trying to be the neighborhood bully, as far as the tactics they took with the CDs.

Also, stop using the term AES! DO NOT use the term AES! Drop it, PERIOD! They are Home carts, not AES carts. Something they dreamed up, and I still despise the term. It should be eliminated totally from Neo-Geo.Com....

Who bought KOFs from them for retail? As far as I know, only Shawn did, and he better be talking to a lawyer over the last deal with the sticker bullshit, and this incident would just be more icing on the cake.

NGF can 'claim' anything they want. They can say they are the official US distributor, and that they have a 3 cart deal with SNK. In the end, they only provide their word as the proof of the existance of the deal. I could say that I purchased $50,000 worth of Atari merchandise in April of 1998, and would anyone question it? I am not sure, but that does not matter to me, as I have the items, and have been selling them since. I could not easily prove the value, but I can prove the existance of the transaction with the people the deal was made with (if they are still
around!). Has NGF actually done that yet? Sure, they tried with the English KOF2k, but now the dark cloud has returned again, even thicker than before! Nothing solid though about the new cart deals or the distributorship.

Now, what is the best way to deal with NGF pertaining to this board? It is easy, let any topic on them DIE! Don't run around posting a banner mentioning them, if someone comes on asking about them, provide a URL to previous post about them, and leave at that, one reply, then let the thread die. Sure, all threads about NGF could be removed, but then we would lower ourselves by creating an environment full of censorship, which is not what these forums are about.

It is unfortunate that they left town, but I am sure I will have a message waiting for me when they get back in town for writing this. But since they are gone, there should be nothing more to say about them. Attention, good or bad, is what they crave. Take it away! Remove the attention, and they wither away and die just like the wicked witch on the Wizard of Oz!!!

The bottom line is that NGF has now proven by their own hand to be dishonest, unethical, and underhanded, and this "breaking news" is just more evidence that they could not, can not, and will never be trustworthy sources for any Neo Geo related merchandise.

(Rant and editorial over)

Yet again, Shawn will probably idiotically deal with NGF again when nitd and sengoku home carts are released by them.

Nice news. I'd like to say congrats to geddon, "Mr. It's real, and your wrong" where are you now?

Mostley everyone here knew it was fake, NGF is full of shit saying they can get more. I agree with mouse master that people should take legal action against them, Shawn should sue. Their shit has gone on long enough, they are nothing but BS artists and need to fall.

Saying there would only be 100 EVER and now getting more is BS, Shawn should sue, snk should sue for tarnishing their name, I know SNK japan could give a fuck about them, but SOMEONE from apple or SNK usa must be able to do something.

NGF lies, they claim BS things like being the ONLY distributor for SNK, when we all know thats a LIE. They ripped off the magazines NGF's name (I still don't know how they use that, due to copyright issues). If NGF is a bussiness like they claim it's time to take action against them, like you would to a crooked bussiness.

Shawn or anyone else who would take legal action against their BS and lies will have my full support.

Umm, why do you think they are still releasing NitD and Sengoku 3? I seriously doubt it now, at least not at a retail level for NitD. Most certainly for their 'big tymers' though.

NitD will be a flop, the jury is still out on Segoku 3 since it has not been released on MVS yet.

Besides, I will get a group of people together to 'talk' to Shawn if he decides to deal with them again!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mouse_Master:
Umm, why do you think they are still releasing NitD and Sengoku 3? I seriously doubt it now, at least not at a retail level for NitD. Most certainly for their 'big tymers' though.

NitD will be a flop, the jury is still out on Segoku 3 since it has not been released on MVS yet.

Besides, I will get a group of people together to 'talk' to Shawn if he decides to deal with them again!

Click to expand...

I thought they might release converted home carts or something.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mouse_Master:
They posted on the website, and said only 100 copies of the English KOF2k existed, that would be it, no more!

Click to expand...

Indeed. I printed out the original website pages and have kept them on file in case such a situation did arise.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Hell, one collector is selling off his collection that has this game on Ebay right now, let me tell you that I was surprised....

Click to expand...

Surprised at the sale or at the inclusion of the game in the collection?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">No warning sticker on the US version? SNK did not forget, obviously NGF does not have any.

Click to expand...

That is but one of the signs that indicates that the games were originally Japanese. Further discrepancies exist in terms of printing quality (download report).

http://members.aol.com/makiselgof/neoindex.html

I agree with you in terms of retail sales. With the "breaking news" that has undermined the original promise of a limited run of 100 cartridges, any retailer has legal rights to demand(*) reparations. As for individuals who purchased the game originally, I believe than anyone purchasing the game strictly for the limited collectable nature was making a mistake in the first place. However, with the broken promise, these individuals too have rights.

The following e-mail was posted to the Neo Geo DHP list by Mr. Billy Pitt, the creator of the Neo Geo Prototype page. I "called out" Mr. Pitt for his opinion on the matter and I believe his ideas were quite eloquent and interesting. Here is his e-mail in its(*) full original context:

"Hey guys,

> restock by NGF of the US KOF2K version
> "quantities are limited to 100 units" claims are not going to be held up.

Well, my opinion on this is that there most likely never were 100
of them in the first place.
NOBODY would pay for a ripped-run of only 100 or less of ANYTHING
wether at a professional printing house in japan or in the usa.
They most likely made 300, 500, or even 1,000 stickers/inserts/manuals.
And they are all done, sitting in boxes and are used as often as need be.

Hence why they had such a HIGH price tag on the first ones they sold
out the door...to make up their "investment" on the ripped-run as quickly
as possible. While now this "restock" is at the all time low price

Every USKOF2K cart they sell now, is gravy. Other then
wasting space in their "warehouse", the USKOF2K "materials" are paid
for, and they could throw them all away at some point if need be.

Maybe now they came into a few cases of jap kof2k's from snk of japan
or elsewhere and so they are "Advertising" the availability of the game
more briskly now then before since they can now move some more out.

I NEVER purchased this game because I thought "it would be a collectors
item", or it would "increase in value". Nor did I have the illusion that it
would be "limited" as they said. I purchased the game because (for me)
it was worth the $600 investment just to SEE if they had indeed managed
to get SNK of Japan to make english carts.
Others might argue that to be a waste of money, but I had to have it in
MY hands. Another person's opinion on its authenticity, no matter who
it would be, was not good enough for me.
When I say 100% CONFIRMED, it means I MYSELF have heard, seen,
or done the said action.

And as pointed out by me in a previous post, Dion continues to insist that
"those who bought the cart, all say it's real...only those who got "stuck"
with the jap version claim it to be fake as they are pissed"
I OWN the USKOF2K and I DO NOT support it as being real.
Again, it is BETTER then "kinkos crap", and by far the best of all non-
official SNK of Japan runs, but it is nonetheless NOT SNK-ORIGINAL.

> the "3000 home carts and 1300 Neo CDs" they claim they can get.
> Sounds REALLY questionable to me

It does seem odd that in this day and age, anyone could come into
a large supply of neogeo carts...much less in sealed boxes.
However, I can tell you that TO THIS DAY things like that happen all
the time...so it IS possible.
Stock is constantly moved in warehouses and is sometimes misplaced
or improperly logged, or incorrectly accounted for, etc.
In essence, anything can happen.
Every month or so, as posted in some of the other video game
newsgroups, a box or two of sealed atari or nintendo carts is located
tossed in some backroom someplace.

So I guess what I am trying to say is, it IS possible in this day and
age, that every once in a while boxes of sealed neogeo carts surface.
As for 3000 of them...well...it's possible, but not probable.
I can't really take a stand on this issue for that reason.
I will however state for the record that even if it were true, and 3000
home carts were scored by NGF...would everyone really care?
If the carts were "freaked" (as is the popular term to use now)
nobody would want them anyways...correct?
Billy"

Lastly, Keith, I was wondering what your thoughts on this matter were from the perspective of a NGF KOF2K USA owner. What was the reason for your purchase of this game and what do you intend to do with these recent revelations?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Caris Nautilus:
I'd like to say congrats to geddon, "Mr. It's real, and your wrong" where are you now?

Click to expand...

I had to toss this one in here just because I don't feel like posting three different posts instead of one comprehensive one. John, like myself, never claimed that the game was fully real or fake. There was never enough proof either way. The current revelations tend to scew the matter further in the direction of the notion that all of the materials were printed internally on US soil. However, there is still too much quality material at hand that suggests that the translation and/or other work was performed by SNK-Japan. Lastly, it is because of people like John, Keith, Billy and others who take risks on these purchases, that further information comes out. Expert opinion can only be provided by those who have held the game in their hands and examined it. Everybody else simply sits on their ass and makes comments without evaluating the situation firsthand.

Sincerely,

Mikhail
www.shockmatrix.com

EDITED (*) - spelling correction and grammar error

[This message has been edited by kiselgof (edited April 03, 2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by baller99:

I thought they might release converted home carts or something.

Click to expand...

That might happen, but the price will certainly not be at a retail level. The cheapest it coule be for eNitD would be right around $600, and the MVS cart NEW is going for $250, I know, I picked one up!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiselgof:
Surprised at the sale or at the inclusion of the game in the collection?

Click to expand...

I am surprised at the sale! Did not matter to me that the game was in the collection, just very surprised at the sale.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">That is but one of the signs that indicates that the games were originally Japanese. Further discrepancies exist in terms of printing quality (download report).

Click to expand...

I have read it, back when you first put it up. It convinced me there was enough 'reasonable doubt' to go either way. Kind of a 'You can not say it is real, and I can not say it is fake' kind of opinion. But that opinion exists no more....

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I agree with you in terms of retail sales. With the "breaking news" that has undermined the original promise of a limited run of 100 cartridges, any retailer has legal rights to demand(*) reparations. As for individuals who purchased the game originally, I believe than anyone purchasing the game strictly for the limited collectable nature was making a mistake in the first place. However, with the broken promise, these individuals too have rights.

Click to expand...

Hopefully something will happen, I think they stepped too far this time!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I had to toss this one in here just because I don't feel like posting three different posts instead of one comprehensive one. John, like myself, never claimed that the game was fully real or fake. There was never enough proof either way. The current revelations tend to scew the matter further in the direction of the notion that all of the materials were printed internally on US soil. However, there is still too much quality material at hand that suggests that the translation and/or other work was performed by SNK-Japan. Lastly, it is because of people like John, Keith, Billy and others who take risks on these purchases, that further information comes out. Expert opinion can only be provided by those who have held the game in their hands and examined it. Everybody else simply sits on their ass and makes comments without evaluating the situation firsthand.

Click to expand...

Well, the X Files theory that has been passed around a little that makes sense to me is that SNK did do the translation, but it was done 'under the table.' If you remember, they say you needed to contact the International Department directly, so they got some people there to do it for them. No one will ever know for sure though.....

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Lastly, Keith, I was wondering what your thoughts on this matter were from the perspective of a NGF KOF2K USA owner. What was the reason for your purchase of this game and what do you intend to do with these recent revelations?

Click to expand...

Don't know for sure. I did my deed and provided the manual.... Many people I know still have an interest in actually seeing it close up. I doubt anyone would buy it at the asking price, so I am probably stuck with it for now. It would have been nice to have had a real US KOF2k release, but I guess we can always hope.....

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mouse_Master:
Don't know for sure. I did my deed and provided the manual.... Many people I know still have an interest in actually seeing it close up. I doubt anyone would buy it at the asking price, so I am probably stuck with it for now. It would have been nice to have had a real US KOF2k release, but I guess we can always hope.....

Click to expand...

I would love to see what Dion has to say in regards to these new revelations. How in the world can he explain the new restock when he swore the first time around that there were ONLY 100 copies?

Such a shame. If I had gone about this, at least I would have made sure to cover all my tracks and not leave stupid mistakes like missing gold warning labels and square stickers on different paper stock.

Sincerely,

Mikhail
www.shockmatrix.com

Mouse master, I totally agree with you on the fact that the first advertising of NGF about KOF2000 was absolutely wrong but the only question i have is:if NGF die, who will sell us NITD and sengoku 3?They seem to be the only people who can do this.My only aim is to play neo games and if this website close down,who will take it place?

Can't someone just send a KOF 2000 in English to Jeff and let him look at it. He should be able to tell you where to point our fingers.

Pichai

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mouse_Master:
Also, stop using the term AES! DO NOT use the term AES! Drop it, PERIOD! They are Home carts, not AES carts. Something they dreamed up, and I still despise the term. It should be eliminated totally from Neo-Geo.Com....
(Rant and editorial over)

Click to expand...

Thank God! Finally someone else agrees with me that this is the stupidest term ever. Every time I see AES mentioned on these boards or somewhere else VGD, ebay, ect., I cringe in pain. This is a fucking lameass stupid term that Dion made up. SNK never marketed home carts as "AES" carts. Dion started using this term about a year and a half ago and for some godawlful reason it caught on. They are HOME CARTS or if you need to be different, call them Home Roms. I don't care, just stop calling them AES carts dammit!! VGD are you listenting?

Ryan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by robert:
Mouse master, I totally agree with you on the fact that the first advertising of NGF about KOF2000 was absolutely wrong but the only question i have is:if NGF die, who will sell us NITD and sengoku 3?They seem to be the only people who can do this.My only aim is to play neo games and if this website close down,who will take it place?

Click to expand...

If NGF lives, who will sell you NitD and Sengoku 3 at a reasonable price? Certainly not them. Even if NitD were released by them, I bet they have a 75% markup on its price.

Go MVS, you can get a 1 slot board pretty cheap, same with a cab, or pick up a Super Gun. Then you will have no need to depend on home carts!

As far as this website, it is not going anywhere anytime soon, Shawn has put a lot of effort and funds into this site, it will be around for awhile!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pichai:
Can't someone just send a KOF 2000 in English to Jeff and let him look at it. He should be able to tell you where to point our fingers.

Pichai

Click to expand...

Sending KOF2k to Jeff would be useless. The actual physical cartridge is real, not a conversion (Would be too expensive for them to do that), but it is the origin of the artwork that was always in question. The question was, did SNK sell them 100 English KOFs. The answer obviously is no. SNK sold them Japanese KOFs and they swapped the artwork to make them English. Same thing SNKUSA did some time back, you'll see carts with 2 stickers on them, US over the Japanese sticker.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiselgof:
I would love to see what Dion has to say in regards to these new revelations. How in the world can he explain the new restock when he swore the first time around that there were ONLY 100 copies?

Such a shame. If I had gone about this, at least I would have made sure to cover all my tracks and not leave stupid mistakes like missing gold warning labels and square stickers on different paper stock.

Click to expand...

Its the power of greed, you let it take over, and it will come back to haunt you.

Will we see an explanation? Who knows....

Agreed 100% with Mouse Master and rstreck. The AES term is idiotic, they've always been home carts to me. Home carts, MVS carts, and Neo CDs. That terminology works fine, and I never used the stupid "AES cart" terminology. Lets banish it from the forums, at least, forever.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mouse_Master:
Don't know for sure. I did my deed and provided the manual.... Many people I know still have an interest in actually seeing it close up. I doubt anyone would buy it at the asking price, so I am probably stuck with it for now. It would have been nice to have had a real US KOF2k release, but I guess we can always hope.....

Click to expand...

Did anyone catch the comment also when There were avaliable scans of the KOF2KNGF manual? I have posted this twice and no one responded. Look at Hinoku's picture in the manual and you see Whip's picture....the Japanese manual doesn't have this discrepincy.....does this have a valid point as to disprove that SNK didn't print the manual? please respond....I would like to hear what you have to say.....


------------------


---GROOVY!!!---

"We regret to inform you that we cannot get any more US KOF2000 homecarts" Hmm, somebody must read these posts. We can see right thru this one.

------------------

well SNK always used NGH to refer to thier homecarts. But anyway I read what was put up on thier site. SOunded more like "we could not buy anymore Japanese carts to convert so we are not going to offer anymnore of our us version, but what we still have some left over from out last sell out. I am sure they will ahve left over KOF 2000 carts f0r a long time.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by djbomberman:

Did anyone catch the comment also when There were avaliable scans of the KOF2KNGF manual? I have posted this twice and no one responded. Look at Hinoku's picture in the manual and you see Whip's picture....the Japanese manual doesn't have this discrepincy.....does this have a valid point as to disprove that SNK didn't print the manual? please respond....I would like to hear what you have to say.....

Click to expand...

The error is not big enough to make a difference whether or not it is real or fake. It is real easy to screw up putting in a picture, it seems to be the only error I have spotted. Not significant enough in my opinion, someone else might say otherwise though.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iori:
"We regret to inform you that we cannot get any more US KOF2000 homecarts" Hmm, somebody must read these posts. We can see right thru this one.

Click to expand...

You would be surprised at how many different people 'lurk' on our forums here. I'm sure NGF reads them, !Arcade! reads them, VGD reads them, etc..... I could be wrong, but I doubt it....

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiselgof:
Expert opinion can only be provided by those who have held the game in their hands and examined it. Everybody else simply sits on their ass and makes comments without evaluating the situation firsthand.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

Click to expand...

well the only thing wrong with that statement is that it is also those people who support them that help to keep them going. Besides personally I determined Dion was full of shit when he first came to my website whining about my NGH numbers. it was proven even further when he sent me some GIF of the 94 neo software catalog (which I own) claiming it was proof that there were NGH versions of some of the games. And again with the orange stripes and all the other nonsense they come out with. So with me there would have to be undenable proof it was real before I bought it, and before all the reviews and what not that was never supplied hence the purchase was never made. SO more to the point to ridicule those who did not buy it is wrong....they did more to try to stop the problem then those that did. I admit the ravings of some was a but much and it could have been argued more intelligently. But promise if you guys feel it should be proven next time first just get together and buy one copy. not 20 or so. Although 2 month ago a lot of the people who bought it were saying they felt it was snk made. As I said before though I would never by from NFG period, even if they start promissing MOTW 2 or some other nonsense and did manage to pay SNK or aruze or whoever to make it. THe people who run the business are not worthy of my support.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">That is but one of the signs that indicates that the games were originally Japanese.

Click to expand...

I hate to be the one who mentions this (since a few have before me), but there is no such thing as an official
'English' Neo-Geo cartridge. When SNK develops a game, they program it to display
Japanese, English, Portuguese, etc. based on your system's territory settings (so they
do the English translation right there during the game's actual development, and they
implement the translation into the game). Why do you think Japanese games play in
English on a U.S. system? The cartridges are bilingual, and there would be no reason
to manufacturer an English cartridge. Do
you understand where I'm coming from? SNK changes the labels, manuals and inserts
based on the territory they're being sold in, but the cartridge stays the same....... so
you're still getting a Japanese cartridge. Yes, you can quote me on this.

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NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 03, 2001).]

So basically, it would have been easy for Dion to have the inserts, labels, and
manuals printed professional here in the States. Since Japanese cartridges play in
English on a U.S. system, it would be easy to fool people into thinking that the cart
was an official English release, especially if you have the packaging professionally
printed in English. SNK of America did the same thing when releasing a new
cartridge: they'd get a shipment of Japanese cartridges in, they would translate the
insert, manual, and labels to English, and they would then repackage the cartridges
with the English material before shipping them off to their vendors. Its quite
simple....

[I had to edit a typing error...]

------------------

NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 03, 2001).]

So wait a sec... Lemme get this straight. NGF claimed they would definitely be getting another run of the KOF2K US carts, and then after reading that people could take legal action against them, they changed their site to say they are "no longer getting a restock"? Did anybody happen to print out or save the html of the site that claimed that? That would probably be some evidence against them if someone was to bring them to court... God damn, I wish someone would actually do that. Somebody out there who has been fucked by them, please have the guts to do this...

------------------
~~Thanks
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