PDA

View Full Version : NGF's New Neo Release Revealed!



Loopz
07-09-2002, 12:37 PM
Here it is...I'm sure Dion and Chris are hard at work with their soldering irons, whippin' us Neo fans up a chunk of love.

<a href="http://www.retrogames.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=retroneogeo&Number=23339&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=5#Post23339" target="_blank">Neo Paneldepon</a>

Too bad though...Tetris Attack is a hell of a fun game. ;)

[ July 09, 2002: Message edited by: Loopz ]</p>

DangerousK
07-09-2002, 12:56 PM
I bet the going rate for that game will be $1000 US dollars for a bootleg cart with NGF stickers running loose all over. I better start saving up for this quality made title. :D

I could just picture them releasing some home made game and claiming it as a long lost Neo game.

Gamefan
07-09-2002, 01:09 PM
Do you know if someone programed that game on actually NEO GEO hardware. Reason I ask is I would love to find someone or something to help me make "real" NEO GEO games. Like a development kit or something.

GAMEFAN

Loopz
07-09-2002, 01:12 PM
Gamefan,

I guess I'd drop an email to the author of that game...perhaps he has development hardware?

chimpmeister
07-09-2002, 01:14 PM
That game was probably programmed on a PC, not a Neo. Neo dev kits are very hard to come by . . . I'm not aware of anyone who actually has one (except maybe Jeff at Vektorlogic, and possibly !Arcade!). Even if the ambiguous duo had a dev kit, they couldn't begin to figure out how to use it!!

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 01:14 PM
that would be sweet to make and produce your own release :) I have a couple great ideas for some new shooter games... Iwish I could dev. them. Gamefan... if you find anything out.... could you email me the info?

How would you even start making them?
SAy.. something like pulstar?

thanks,
†B†V†

sha-v
07-09-2002, 01:16 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Gamefan:
<strong>Do you know if someone programed that game on actually NEO GEO hardware. Reason I ask is I would love to find someone or something to help me make "real" NEO GEO games. Like a development kit or something.

GAMEFAN</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just ask blaster@gmx.net. If you have M68k ASM knowledge it should be no problem for you to do a NeoGeo game :)

Takumaji
07-09-2002, 01:20 PM
Hehe...

The guy who made this "Neo Tetris" is a German, and member of the Daddelkingz BBS. He announced the release there.

If you can read German (or know how to use Babelfish), here's the post:

<a href="http://www.daddelkingz.de/board/index.php?action=show_thread&thread=01.1026051077.dat&file=01" target="_blank">Daddelkingz BBS - Freeware Neo game</a>

:D

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 01:21 PM
that would be sweet to make and produce your own release :) I have a couple great ideas for some new shooter games... Iwish I could dev. them. Gamefan... if you find anything out.... could you email me the info?

How would you even start making them?
SAy.. something like pulstar?

thanks,
†B†V†

Takumaji
07-09-2002, 01:30 PM
For those of you wondering about how this guy made the game, he said (in the German post on Daddelkingz) that he programmed it in pure M68K assembler. He plans to release the game on Neo CD first, then maybe an MVS.

AFAIK, he did not use an official DevKit. These kits are almost impossible to get, even more in these days.

On a side note, NeoDev (who also started to develop games) got into legal trouble with Playmore. Playmore sent their lawyers, and that's why NeoDev (who never were connected with the emu in general scene, btw.) had to be taken down.

So - good luck to Blastar and his new game...

IMO, Playmore should stand up against all the rom whores and dumpers, not against Neo enthusiasts.

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 01:32 PM
how much do these kits run if found?

I really want to try making a couple games :D

Takumaji
07-09-2002, 01:43 PM
I guess you won't find a complete Neo DevKit on the public market, say eBay or something. Most of this stuff is heavily copyrighted, and you would have to get in biz contact with Playmore if you would want to go the legal way.

I think it's better to start off of a M68K dev kit, which should be readily available, since the M68K is an old workhorse which not only did his job in the Neo. You wouldn't be able to use the Neo's custom chips that way, tho.

Disassemble Neorage, that's what I say... :) ;)

Loopz
07-09-2002, 01:51 PM
[quote]IMO, Playmore should stand up against all the rom whores and dumpers, not against Neo enthusiasts.

<hr></blockquote>

Hell yeah. Homebrew game enthusiasts definitely aren't any kind of negative to Playmore's operation. Bootleggers on the other hand... :rolleyes:

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 01:58 PM
how do I go about getting this stuff? I am a noob on this subject :)


†B†V†

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 02:17 PM
takamaji... you have some PM :)

†B†V†

Takumaji
07-09-2002, 02:32 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>takamaji... you have some PM :)

†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

...and rrright back to ya!

HPMAN
07-09-2002, 02:36 PM
Well, even programming in assembly you need heavy tech documentation about the neo. Chaos released a demo with source code, but even this source is undocumented.

Bios call at 0x4c2 ? Yeah, sure... <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" />

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 02:40 PM
maybe playmore would give out a neodev kit... eh lol :D

†B†V†

Alkanan
07-09-2002, 03:31 PM
Regardless, that game looks like unentertaining crap.

Tarma
07-09-2002, 03:37 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Alkanan:
<strong>Regardless, that game looks like unentertaining crap.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, you took the words right off my keyboard... in England we call this sort of game - bollocks :)

Loopz
07-09-2002, 03:48 PM
I guess you guys never played Panel De Pon, aka Tetris Attack on the SNES. I don't know how exact this homebrew Neo port is, but the original game is one of the best, most addictive puzzlers ever...right up your alley if you dig anything like Money Puzzle Exchanger or Magical Drop2/3...if you aren't into puzzle games you would be bored off your arse. :D

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 04:01 PM
I want to make a home brewed Pulstar type game...... and distribute it lol

†B†V†

Makismo
07-09-2002, 04:05 PM
I want a Mutation Nation 2 or a Magician Lord 2. Now that would be Kool. <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" />

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 04:11 PM
yea it would :)

man...... I hope I can figure out how to make these games.... I am dying to do this.

<img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" /> <img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" />
†B†V†

Gamefan
07-09-2002, 04:44 PM
I know assembly language. Maybe I will hunt around for more info on a dev kit. If I do find anything I will post it here.

GAMEFAN

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 04:46 PM
I am going to hunt too... I hope you or I can find somethin.....

†B†V†

Tarma
07-09-2002, 04:48 PM
Can someone bring out a Neo Geo game called 'Spank The Monkey'??? <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> :)

Gamefan
07-09-2002, 05:09 PM
Blue, You have a PM.

GAMEFAN

Bluevoodu
07-09-2002, 05:15 PM
tarma.... what is your obsession w/ spank the monkey <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> <img src="graemlins/eek2.gif" border="0" alt="[Eek 2]" /> <img src="graemlins/tickled.gif" border="0" alt="[Tickled]" />

†B†V†

Tarma
07-09-2002, 05:31 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>tarma.... what is your obsession w/ spank the monkey <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> <img src="graemlins/eek2.gif" border="0" alt="[Eek 2]" /> <img src="graemlins/tickled.gif" border="0" alt="[Tickled]" />

†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

The two playable characters are called Chris and Dion... you decide the rest :D

Makismo
07-09-2002, 07:47 PM
I wonder how many megs this new release is going to be? If it is that puzzle game, I doubt it will be alot. It may still be fun though because I think Tetris is neat. :)

RabbitTroop
07-09-2002, 08:28 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Makismo:
<strong>I wonder how many megs this new release is going to be? If it is that puzzle game, I doubt it will be alot. It may still be fun though because I think Tetris is neat. :) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Well it is a beta at this stage so it is hard to tell how big it will be. Right now with no sound or music it is 3.12M or as SNK would do it on their carts 3.12 x 8 = 24.96 (25MEGs). However, there may be a lot of debug crap and other useless stuff taking up space now, and even with the music it may be the same size on final :)

-Nick

Caris Nautilus
07-09-2002, 08:45 PM
RevQuixo and Bugula are kinda like the more-homo Dion and Chris of Texas.

Instead of bootlegging carts they sell bootlegged gay porn with corrected inserts.

Evil Wasabi
07-09-2002, 09:17 PM
i doubt you're ever going to find a neo dev kit.

snk hasnt used dev kits since the early days of the neo.

now everything is pure unadulterated code.

no drivers and that bs.

if you want anything decent, its gonna have to be hard core code.

Professor_Mayhem
07-09-2002, 10:21 PM
You're all wrong. SNK DEVIL GUI LONG had the first pics of NGF's new game!!!!

http://members.aol.com/xxdigidestinedxx//NGF.jpg

<img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" /> <img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" />

-The Reverend 330 Mega

mookystains
07-09-2002, 10:25 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Professor_Mayhem:
<strong>You're all wrong. SNK DEVIL GUI LONG had the first pics of NGF's new game!!!!

http://members.aol.com/xxdigidestinedxx//NGF.jpg

<img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" /> <img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" />

-The Reverend 330 Mega</strong><hr></blockquote>


hahaaaaaa
gui rocks.

Professor_Mayhem
07-09-2002, 10:42 PM
Can't forget the "special" controller...

http://members.aol.com/xxdigidestinedxx//controller.jpg

-The Reverend 330 Mega

NeoDragoN
07-09-2002, 10:42 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Professor_Mayhem:
<strong>You're all wrong. SNK DEVIL GUI LONG had the first pics of NGF's new game!!!!

http://members.aol.com/xxdigidestinedxx//NGF.jpg

<img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" /> <img src="graemlins/loco.gif" border="0" alt="[Loco]" />

-The Reverend 330 Mega</strong><hr></blockquote>

LMAO!!

Gui is so talented!! :)

mookystains
07-09-2002, 10:44 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Professor_Mayhem:
<strong>Can't forget the "special" controller...

http://members.aol.com/xxdigidestinedxx//controller.jpg

-The Reverend 330 Mega</strong><hr></blockquote>
WHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

man, what would we of done without gui?

blastar
07-10-2002, 01:28 AM
[quote]Originally posted by DangerousK:
<strong>I bet the going rate for that game will be $1000 US dollars for a bootleg cart with NGF stickers running loose all over. I better start saving up for this quality made title. :D

I could just picture them releasing some home made game and claiming it as a long lost Neo game.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes, lost on "my" harddisk!

blastar...

Daisuke Jigen
07-10-2002, 01:39 AM
[quote]Originally posted by blastar:
<strong>

yes, lost on "my" harddisk!

blastar...</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you are the user from Daddelkingz who has worked on this?

Tetris Attack is a favorite of mine.

Many thanks!

MVS offering maybe?

sha-v
07-10-2002, 04:21 AM
[quote]Originally posted by sonic1687:
<strong>i doubt you're ever going to find a neo dev kit.

snk hasnt used dev kits since the early days of the neo.

now everything is pure unadulterated code.

no drivers and that bs.

if you want anything decent, its gonna have to be hard core code.</strong><hr></blockquote>

There are dev kits. Do you really think the code of NeoGeo games are 100% ASM? What about debugging? With no Dev-Kit, high level language, debugging station, libraries the NG would never be so successful and the development would last much longer.

RabbitTroop
07-10-2002, 04:34 AM
[quote]Originally posted by sha-v:
<strong>

There are dev kits. Do you really think the code of NeoGeo games are 100% ASM? What about debugging? With no Dev-Kit, high level language, debugging station, libraries the NG would never be so successful and the development would last much longer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes they are almost all assembly, why wouldn't you be able to debug inside the assembler/linker package? And for the most part, with the system being as handicapped as it is (Genesis like power) there is no way in hell anything short of assembly could produce the marvels of modern KOFs and Metal Slug 3 type games. To tell you the truth, I don't think they really even develope much any more. I am pretty sure code is reused for each product and only little tweaks are made. I mean, why design the fighting game over and over... Capcom has done the same thing for years, just re-release the same engine with tweaks and new graphics/sounds.

-Nick

sha-v
07-10-2002, 04:50 AM
[quote]Originally posted by nruva:
<strong>

Yes they are almost all assembly, why wouldn't you be able to debug inside the assembler/linker package? And for the most part, with the system being as handicapped as it is (Genesis like power) there is no way in hell anything short of assembly could produce the marvels of modern KOFs and Metal Slug 3 type games. To tell you the truth, I don't think they really even develope much any more. I am pretty sure code is reused for each product and only little tweaks are made. I mean, why design the fighting game over and over... Capcom has done the same thing for years, just re-release the same engine with tweaks and new graphics/sounds.

-Nick</strong><hr></blockquote>

Most of a game is written in C/C++

If they were written in pure assembly you wouldn't seen a NG on any other platform (with even the same bugs).

sha-v
07-10-2002, 04:53 AM
@sonic1687

[quote]no drivers and that bs.<hr></blockquote>

What about the bios?

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: sha-v ]</p>

Viewpoint
07-10-2002, 05:34 AM
Walks up looking at NGF's new release*

Hmm....It's already got shitstains on it from those 2 buttpluggers wiping their asses on the inserts.

I don't know why you people even fret on the duo. They are known fucking lyars, price jackers, bad dressers and are so full of themselves that I can't even get a hardon anymore when I think about NGF*Not that I ever did mind you* but these NGF threads need to fucking die.

NGF is this blah blah blah. I'm going to take a BBH status on this.

WHO CARES?!?!?!?!?!

Snake Grunger
07-10-2002, 05:59 AM
Neato! I would like to get my hands on a devkit for the NeoGeo..

When I worked for Paragon5, and when we developped on the GameBoy Color, we only used freeware tools and compilers, as well as Hong-Kong Bung hardware, rather than the actual Nintendo supplied devkit (which sucked and was super expensive).

A link to my game for sale on eBay:
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1365739328" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1365739328</a>

Don't think anybody here played it :(

Takumaji
07-10-2002, 07:02 AM
Ok, let's make a quick summary here... HPMAN or any other tech buffs, correct me if I'm wrong.

Ppl who don't want or can't use a genuine SNK Neo devkit would at least need the following if they'd want to start a serious Neo developement project:

1- generic m68k asm developement software with debugger
2- the Neo's custom libraries to get access to the special features which are not handled by the m68k CPU
3- good system documentation of the Neo hardware, and a kernel/core developer handbook for the m68k (still available from Motorala)
4- software and hardware to record and re-code samples/sound
5- several sprite editors
6- some paint programs
7- an emulator like Neorage or Nebula to test the game
8- (optionally) several documented or undocumented sources of existing Neo dev projects
9- (optionally) infos about the cart/CD data layout

I think points 2 and 3 are the real hard stuff...

HPMAN
07-10-2002, 08:56 AM
[quote]Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>1- generic m68k asm developement software with debugger
2- the Neo's custom libraries to get access to the special features which are not handled by the m68k CPU
3- good system documentation of the Neo hardware, and a kernel/core developer handbook for the m68k (still available from Motorala)
4- software and hardware to record and re-code samples/sound
5- several sprite editors
6- some paint programs
7- an emulator like Neorage or Nebula to test the game
8- (optionally) several documented or undocumented sources of existing Neo dev projects
9- (optionally) infos about the cart/CD data layout</strong><hr></blockquote>

Asm can be found, mame can be used as a debugger, or a modded neo with debug bios, but mame debugger is more user friendly. You do not need libraries in asm...

As for tech docs many info can be found in mame source code, but not everything...
Doc about bios calls could be really usefull, would avoid to disasm and read all bios code...

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 10:28 AM
I am working ro figure out how to program these games :) I am talking to a few people.

I actually found a dev kit for the Atari Jaguar I am going to pick up and give a shot at :) Heck ... why not. The only problem is the people who sell it, don't give any coding help what-so-ever lol..... I said "PLEASE!!!" they said, "nope, you have to figure out how to start on your own". lol.... well... maybe they are covering their butts since they make games too :D

Then I am going to find a neo dev kit... I will I tell you.

†B†V†

Evil Wasabi
07-10-2002, 10:36 AM
[quote]Originally posted by sha-v:
<strong>

Most of a game is written in C/C++

If they were written in pure assembly you wouldn't seen a NG on any other platform (with even the same bugs).</strong><hr></blockquote>

not on neo.

every console game before playsatation was made in assembler basically. why do you think saturn was made the way it was? for pure hard core code. it wasnt made to support libraries and stuff.

sony changed the market with their dev kits, with libraries, and easy c/c++ crap.

maybe thats why most neo ports were so bad, because snk couldnt handle it. <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />

and the bios doesnt really count, everything needs a bios. its the basic input output system

edit:

and about the devkit. if there even is one, the drivers, libraries, etc, would be so outdated you wouldnt be able to do much more than what the early releases did. you arent going to program MotWs with a devkit <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: sonic1687 ]</p>

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 10:44 AM
I just want to makea couple side scroll shooter games. Pulstar must have been made off the devkit..... Ghost pilots, Andro Dunos, and last resort must have been too.

I don't want to make any fighter games.. I am getting somewhat tired of them. I want more good sidescroll shooter games... so I want to see if I can make a great one.

Anyone know some killer sprite creators/editors?

Does anyone remember UN Squadron on the SNES? That is my favorite side scroll of all time...most fun 1 I have ever played... with a 2nd being pulstar.

I want to play Blazing star.. but not enough money on my end....
I have an idea... who wants to send me their blazing star cart so I can play it :D I will send it back.. I just want to play it lol..

†B†V†

sha-v
07-10-2002, 11:35 AM
[quote]Originally posted by sonic1687:
<strong>

not on neo.

every console game before playsatation was made in assembler basically. why do you think saturn was made the way it was? for pure hard core code. it wasnt made to support libraries and stuff.

sony changed the market with their dev kits, with libraries, and easy c/c++ crap.

maybe thats why most neo ports were so bad, because snk couldnt handle it. <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />

and the bios doesnt really count, everything needs a bios. its the basic input output system

edit:

and about the devkit. if there even is one, the drivers, libraries, etc, would be so outdated you wouldnt be able to do much more than what the early releases did. you arent going to program MotWs with a devkit <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: sonic1687 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then explain me how the same bugs are in ports and on the original? If it were programmed in ASM on Neo they must completly new create a the game for the port. -&gt; There is only one reason, because it is written in an high level language. Dont tell me they ported the bugs from ASM to C/C++

Btw, why should C/C++ be crap?

RabbitTroop
07-10-2002, 11:53 AM
OK, you have a point, but they also may just be porting the engine to the console. Neo games to other systems are not direct ports and as such usually use new sprites and music. Also, there has been talk for a while that Playmore could just port Mame or some other type emulator for other systems then create much easier ports. As for the reason the bugs exsist... like what exactly? I just can't think of any off the top of my head.

As for C/C++ being bad. No, they are not bad, there is just way to much overhead in the function calls. Especially C++, there is not a game developer out there that would choose C++ over C, I could see maybe a combo of the two, but I can tell you for a fact that most EA games for PC are in C... most PSX games are in C/Assembly. I don't know about PS2, I would imagine it is also C/Assembly.

So as for the ports, that is a good point, I can't explain short of simply porting the engine (maybe that is why it took MOTW so long to come out, same with KOF2K and MS3). I do know that Nightmare Tony, an old tech for SNK, says that almost all games are 100% Assembly these days, ask him if you want more info, he may be better to answer this question then I :)

-Nick

HPMAN
07-10-2002, 12:09 PM
No C/C++, no port.

Come on, neo bios which is 128k, not even filled, already is 15000+ lines of asm code. Newest releases weights at several megabytes program code...

If it would be 100% asm, no company (like eolith etc...) would be making neo games nowadays.

Some parts certainly can be asm, but most of the program code must be written in high level language.

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 12:39 PM
my .... how topics change :D

could someone drop me an email on a good place for a NOOB to start programming in C... etc. I need some REAL good information on how;/where to start.

thanks,
†B†V†

HPMAN
07-10-2002, 12:45 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>my .... how topics change :D

could someone drop me an email on a good place for a NOOB to start programming in C... etc. I need some REAL good information on how;/where to start.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Let's start simply...

#include &lt;stdio.h&gt;

int main(void) {
printf("Hello world\n");
return(0);
}

Congratulations, you're now a skilled C programmer :D

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 12:52 PM
lol!

I hate that simple project lol :)

I didthat in Visual Basic. I did some OOP with VB.... but thats it. OOP is hard as heck.

I meant links to sites that might have some good information that you or someone discovered.... that is MORE helpful than the rest.
:D

†B†V†

sha-v
07-10-2002, 01:00 PM
LOL

After HPMAN's C intoduction you are ready for this:http://www0.us.ioccc.org/main.html

And after studing the entries you are ready to write code like that: <a href="http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/bellard.c" target="_blank">http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/bellard.c</a> or <a href="http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/rince.c" target="_blank">http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/rince.c</a>

m_bish0p
07-10-2002, 01:30 PM
yeah, when I was programming for the GameBoy it was all assembly, now they're doing everything in C++, and C for the color and advance. I imagine it was the same for the neo-geo, just because a good C compiler is going to put out faster and tighter code than an average assembly programmer.

Also, I think the 'engine' theory is very likely. I doubt they rewrote KOF from scratch every time.

If anyone does get a hold of some dev info I'd like a PM.

thanks!

RabbitTroop
07-10-2002, 01:31 PM
Well, if you can get a Neo game working in C then I would be impressed. But, all you would need are the libraries and compiler... Vektorlogik was making a new Dev sweet. I bet if you write them they would atleast give you a heads up on what they have learned writting this new devlopment environment.

As for Bluevoodu, you sound like you are pretty new to programming, and game programming in general. Not that you can't do it, but a Pulstar type project may be a bit to ambitious for your first outing. I would recommend first learning the freeware Gameboy tools. They are simple and are pretty well documented (plus you can use C or Assembler!). The GBDK is only one of many, and there are so many sites with sample code, how to, etc, etc. That would probably be your best intro to console programming. Then, believe it or not, the step to Neo would not be that bad, especially since the share similar processors and limitations.

-Nick

Professor_Mayhem
07-10-2002, 02:07 PM
Dion has posted some new bullshi... news. :rolleyes:

After a long amount of consideration from the many numerous emails and requests we've received, we have pretty much finalized our debut titles. This year we will be debuting an astonishing 3 lost titles. Yes, that's right 3 titles!!!!
We will have these 2 titles Neo Pool Master and Last Odyssey.... and another lost title for UNDER $499.99 (last title is still up for draw between 2 titles). With these 3 great lost titles any and all NeoGeo fans who attend the CGE will be able to expand their NeoGeo AES collection yet a little further. We are providing these titles for the true NeoGeoFreaks, fans, and collectors alike who attend the CGE2K2 show.

Normally these titles are reserved for our status ranked members, but we are allowing this open sale for all CGE attendees. Quantities are limited at the show, but we will back order/make any extra titles if we sell out past our expected amounts. We will be limiting sales to only 2 or 3 per person. Send in your registry today to reserve your copy. Send registries to sales@neogeofreak.com

This is yet another service we at NeoGeoFreak/NGF-USA do for all the serious NeoGeo fans.

"Yes, We are NeoGeoFreaks!"


thank you,

Dion
NGF-USA
<a href="http://www.NeoGeoFreak.com" target="_blank">www.NeoGeoFreak.com</a>


-The Reverend 330 Mega

Evil Wasabi
07-10-2002, 02:13 PM
well, i know c isnt crap.

its jsut what killed the saturn.

all console games prior to psx had been in assembly, and sega obviously assumed they would continue, but thats not how it was.

psx had tons of easy to use dev kits, so all the lazy programers could use c and stuff, no hard core assembly.

saturn launced with extensive documentation on all the chips, so you could whip up anything in assembly, but thats not what devers wanted now that psx was using c. thus the loss of all thoes developers.

saturn was too complicated to beable to use a devkit and get decent performance out of it..

Takumaji
07-10-2002, 02:18 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>I am working ro figure out how to program these games :) I am talking to a few people.

I actually found a dev kit for the Atari Jaguar I am going to pick up and give a shot at :) Heck ... why not. The only problem is the people who sell it, don't give any coding help what-so-ever lol..... I said "PLEASE!!!" they said, "nope, you have to figure out how to start on your own". lol.... well... maybe they are covering their butts since they make games too :D

Then I am going to find a neo dev kit... I will I tell you.

†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know, it's basically impossible to show one how to code in, say, C or assembly language without the proper background.

C or C++ is a high level programming language, that means that stuff which would take ten asm code lines could be done in one C code line... it's a very rough example, but you get the picture.

On the other hand, asm is much faster than C, because C is a compiler language which has to be "converted" (read: compiled) to an asm object. Asm is directly connected with the hardware you're coding on. It's not "machine code", tho. This is a common misconception, some ppl always brag about being able to code in machine code... this would be something like: 00001001001100001001111010101000010100 (and $1 for anyone who can translate this :D ).

So - to comment on the statement that "nobody uses asm in modern game programming anymore" - this is basically correct. But it's simply impossible to reach the speed of asm in C on a m68k. That's why most Amiga games for ex. (the Amiga is a machine using an m68k and several custom chips, "Blitter", "Paula", "Agnus", "Copper", etc.) are coded in asm, at least the CPU-intensive parts (object rotation, stencil textures, objects (e. g. blobs) moving in sinus curves, etc.pp.).

Ask Blastar - he coded his Neo Tetris in pure m68k asm.

If you want to learn m68k assembly language for programming games for the Neo, you HAVE TO know your hardware, that is the Motorola 680000 CPU itself, and of course the Neo's custom hardware.

I PM'ed you a link to the official m68k faq, which contains lots of links to dev tools and docs, inhale it thoroughly and check some of the links... it's no piece of cake, sure, but, apart from the 386-based (PC)-CPUs, you prolly won't find a better documented CPU than the m68k.

Hey Blue, by any means, go for it. I appreciate your efforts. It's good to see some idealistic ppl again! :)

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 02:25 PM
I knew some machine code... I had a few operating systems classes... and network security classes.

We were working with Linux... and I think the hexidecimal system.... brainbusting stuff.

I have a C course coming up soon... maybe within 1 year. I hope this class helps.

I am ambitious... but this is starting to sound way more complicated than my VB programs I have programmed.


but.. what the heck.. I want to do this and I will try it out :)
If I make something good... maybe they can publish my game :)

I am going to try to get some more experienced people to help me along the path. It will be volunteer basis only. I got someone for the Soundtrack/SFX. I can do the graphics and some of the coding.... and all the backgrounds.

I am going to need help with the coding lol

†B†V†

HPMAN
07-10-2002, 02:31 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>Ask Blastar - he coded his Neo Tetris in pure m68k asm.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course since C libraries for neo are nowhere to be found, homebrew software can only be written in ASM....

JMKurtz
07-10-2002, 02:35 PM
My Neo games I'm working on are now mostly in C with underlaying ASM routines for gfx -- so the game logic is quicker to code.

<a href="http://www.radix.net/~atari/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.radix.net/~atari/index.html</a>

Jeff

[quote]Originally posted by nruva:
<strong>Well, if you can get a Neo game working in C then I would be impressed. But, all you would need are the libraries and compiler... Vektorlogik was making a new Dev sweet. I bet if you write them they would atleast give you a heads up on what they have learned writting this new devlopment environment.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 02:37 PM
which by the way you all talk.. asm sounds impossible.

†B†V†

Takumaji
07-10-2002, 02:42 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong> [...] but.. what the heck.. I want to do this and I will try it out :) [...] </strong><hr></blockquote>

That's the stuff legends are made of! :) ;)

Don't worry... your C classes you're about to attend will get you started. After all, m68 asm is no rocket science.

Since I'm a musician, I have quite some equipment for sound recording/producing, samplers, mixers, synths, denoisers, compressors, etc. If you need help with anything connected with sounds and sampling, let me know.

HPMAN
07-10-2002, 02:50 PM
People with dev skills should start a board for neo programming, so everyone could share info & tips.

First step would be of course to torture JMKurtz to make him say everything he knows about neo coding :D

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 03:01 PM
your on my list for SFX/ Soundtrack :D

I play guitar and have been playing for aroun 8-9 years. I will be making some of the music when I can. If I can get ahold of a drum machine :) I WILL make some Fear Factory: Demanufactured type songs for this game :D

<img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" /> <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" /> sounds too good right now.. <img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" />

lol.
†B†V†

Takumaji
07-10-2002, 03:04 PM
[quote]Originally posted by HPMAN:
<strong>People with dev skills should start a board for neo programming, so everyone could share info & tips.

First step would be of course to torture JMKurtz to make him say everything he knows about neo coding :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep. Great idea!

Jeff, did you hear? :D

Takumaji
07-10-2002, 03:14 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>your on my list for SFX/ Soundtrack :D

I play guitar and have been playing for aroun 8-9 years. I will be making some of the music when I can. If I can get ahold of a drum machine :) I WILL make some Fear Factory: Demanufactured type songs for this game :D

<img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" /> <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" /> sounds too good right now.. <img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" />

lol.
†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you don't want to go the hardware way, you can use Rebirth-338 for PC, a very cool software drum/bass sequencer by Steinberg (a German company), with lots of easy-to-use features. Of course it's available in English too.

It combines three of Roland's most famous machines into one, two TB-303s (analogue bass synths), a TR-808 and a TR-909 (both drum machines). Phat sound guaranteed.

AFAIK, there's a demo version to download from <a href="http://www.steinberg.net" target="_blank">Steinberg's web site</a>.

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 03:22 PM
that sounds rather cool :)

Some of the songs would have to be techno... you cannot have a side scroll shooter with techno... and some industrial NIN type stuff too :)

I love creating NIN type music.

†B†V†

Takumaji
07-10-2002, 03:26 PM
Uh, that depends how you'd use the drums and bass sequences. The 909 for ex. has an alternative set of drum sounds which don't sound technoid or something.

Filtered through a compressor, this would make a very cool saw-your-brain-in-half cyber drum kit! :D

m_bish0p
07-10-2002, 03:31 PM
so, if there are games written in the 6800 language, where does the Z80 come in? When I was coding for the original GameBoy, it was all z80. Then I did some work in 8086, and now I'm working with the PIC-16f977 microcontroller.

basically, I'm sure I can pick up 6800 code, but I thought the Neo was a tandum system with a 6800 and z80? I know some Z80, but how do they work together? Am I wrong about the neo all together?

I would love some PM's about all this. There was a HUGE site for working with the GameBoy and a really active list that basically went under when the GBC and GBA came out. I'd love to have this kind of hobbie again!! Please will someone start a dev board?

Bluevoodu
07-10-2002, 03:35 PM
We could start an Ezboard for developing neo geo games :) .... and other games for other systems.

What would you think about that?


†B†V†

HPMAN
07-10-2002, 03:44 PM
[quote]Originally posted by m_bish0p:
<strong>basically, I'm sure I can pick up 6800 code, but I thought the Neo was a tandum system with a 6800 and z80? I know some Z80, but how do they work together? Am I wrong about the neo all together?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Z80 is handled by the M1 ROM, which seems to be basically a driver. I don't think you need to rewrite the Z80 ROM for each game. Or maybe you just need to changes tunes, not driver code. (there's various revisions, open a M1 ROM withing an hex editor you'll see a revision #)

I may be wrong but that's what come to me after looking into neo ROM files.

sha-v
07-10-2002, 04:04 PM
[quote]Originally posted by HPMAN:
<strong>

Z80 is handled by the M1 ROM, which seems to be basically a driver. I don't think you need to rewrite the Z80 ROM for each game. Or maybe you just need to changes tunes, not driver code. (there's various revisions, open a M1 ROM withing an hex editor you'll see a revision #)

I may be wrong but that's what come to me after looking into neo ROM files.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are right. If you for eg. extract strings form a M1 rom you will get something like that: Sound Driver(ROM)Ver 1.9 00/03/22 To SNK

But the driver is copyrighted by Playmore.

i shot jr
07-10-2002, 04:44 PM
unless you're going for a cd release, theres no way you'll be able to spare enough rom space to fit sampled music onboard (from reason, rebirth, your guitar or whatever) - the actual figure escapes me, but 1 minute of 44kz 16 bit mono sound takes up about 2.5mb so a few low samplerate drum hits might be your limit. You'll be needing to use the neos onboard soundchip to provide most of the sound if you're going aes/mvs.

If you still think a dev kit is in order, go ask at <a href="http://pub39.ezboard.com/fassembler19279frm1" target="_blank">http://pub39.ezboard.com/fassembler19279frm1</a> , they should know about that sort of thing.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: i shot jr ]</p>

Clear Paper
07-10-2002, 05:58 PM
If you look at the proto '99 rom images (remember the updatable flash roms on the daughter board in the early release), you'll see that Borland C++ was used.

I reckon it'd be better to start with 68k asm and to debug an existing cart. Something small like Gururin or Puzzled. Starting with C/C++ when you don't know squat about the 68k and the Neo is quite pointless. And not to burst your bubble, it's going to take quite some understanding.

Looks like Neo development has got us by the balls, eh? ;)

JMKurtz
07-10-2002, 06:06 PM
The Z80 is the sound processor. It sends commands to the YM2610 chip. It's the sound driver. It feeds FM sequences (music) and tells what samples to play. The Z80 code is pretty generic, it's the music sequencing that's the tough part.

The sound samples are stored at 18.5kHz and are mono (for ADPCM-A).

What I need to find is someone that knows Z80 and FM sound programming :) I'm working on it, but would go a lot quicker with someone that knew what they were doing. I have no real clue about FM synthesis.

Jeff

i shot jr
07-10-2002, 06:18 PM
theres some stuff on fm here: <a href="http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm</a> and here: <a href="http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm</a>

rather you than me though mate.

m_bish0p
07-10-2002, 06:46 PM
okay, so the Z80 just plays the sound files, and you can access them through some standard way by with the 6800. That makes sense.

also, about working with c/c++ before assembly. I actually found that compiling my own simple programs with a free compiler, and then looking at the generated assembler was a great way to get an understanding of how the z80 worked. I found a freeware compiler that actually put in some really simple comments like 'this section compares these two numbers' and it made it a little easier than just jumping right in.

If it's a good C compiler, with the right libriaries, then there's no good reason you couldn't write a simple game without any assembly at all. If it has no libriaries, then you'll be mixing languages pretty fast, and that's harder for me than just chosing assembly from the start and coding it all in that.

If someone developed a BUNG type cart for the Neo-Geo, would people be interested or just offended? I like the idea of a home-brew arcade community, but the BUNG carts for the GB were mostly used to pirate games. I never understood why people didn't just play the ROMZ like everyone else.

Anyway, it's just an idea. I could look at what a simple Flash programmer would cost to build, and exactly wich chips would have to be programmed, but all that is usually fairly standard.

just an idea, anyway.

Megatron X
07-10-2002, 07:04 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Gamefan:
<strong>Do you know if someone programed that game on actually NEO GEO hardware. Reason I ask is I would love to find someone or something to help me make "real" NEO GEO games. Like a development kit or something.

GAMEFAN</strong><hr></blockquote>

I myself am looking for a Neo-Geo AES development kit too, but I can't find one :( . I tried, but failed. The same goes for a PSX development kit.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Megatron X ]</p>

RabbitTroop
07-10-2002, 08:54 PM
[quote]Originally posted by m_bish0p:
<strong>okay, so the Z80 just plays the sound files, and you can access them through some standard way by with the 6800. That makes sense.

also, about working with c/c++ before assembly. I actually found that compiling my own simple programs with a free compiler, and then looking at the generated assembler was a great way to get an understanding of how the z80 worked. I found a freeware compiler that actually put in some really simple comments like 'this section compares these two numbers' and it made it a little easier than just jumping right in.

If it's a good C compiler, with the right libriaries, then there's no good reason you couldn't write a simple game without any assembly at all. If it has no libriaries, then you'll be mixing languages pretty fast, and that's harder for me than just chosing assembly from the start and coding it all in that.

If someone developed a BUNG type cart for the Neo-Geo, would people be interested or just offended? I like the idea of a home-brew arcade community, but the BUNG carts for the GB were mostly used to pirate games. I never understood why people didn't just play the ROMZ like everyone else.

Anyway, it's just an idea. I could look at what a simple Flash programmer would cost to build, and exactly wich chips would have to be programmed, but all that is usually fairly standard.

just an idea, anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yeah, I would love to see a Bung type device for neo programming, that would be sweet... but a lot of people would use it to pirate :( And the Bung carts are usually Flash RAM, with that dropping in price you could easily get 128MEG of RAM (bigger then any Neo cart available, and probably past system spec). Anyway, that would be incredible, but I doubt it is going to ever happen... plus like I said, everyone would use it to pirate games!

-Nick

m_bish0p
07-10-2002, 11:05 PM
well, unless there's something I don't know that's special about neo, wich is all together possible, I don't see why building one would be that hard.

Really, all the Bung carts were just flash-rom replacements with the write-pins connected. It's not like it's rocket science. I don't know much about the neo hardware in particular, but unless it's alien technology, it's gotta be like the stuff I work with every day.

I'm not much more than a garage engineer right now, as my training was in software. I work with a guy who's done radio work for Motorola and the Government, along with a lot of hardware for Penn State. Right now we're working on building some custom hardware for them to take to antarctica. With his help, I think I could probably do it.

I just don't want to go through the work, and cost, just to find out that people are going to flame the hell out of me for it. If no one is going to appreciate it, then to hell with it.

sha-v
07-11-2002, 02:40 AM
For those who are interesting in M68k development, maybe that is a good starting point for you (if you not already know):
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68000" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68000</a>

Btw, did they used different MC68 on their boards? (packaging, power consumtion) or is always the HC000FN used?

I guess a new forum for NG development should be created :)

td741
07-11-2002, 09:32 AM
Although it might not be the same and as glamourous as a BUNG cart, but there's always the possibility of using CD-R's and a NEOCD for developement as well. I wonder if the NeoCD will take CDRW's.

VanillaThunder
07-11-2002, 09:55 AM
[quote]Originally posted by td741:
<strong>Although it might not be the same and as glamourous as a BUNG cart, but there's always the possibility of using CD-R's and a NEOCD for developement as well. I wonder if the NeoCD will take CDRW's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think it will. Due to the HK SIlvers not working onthem

Takumaji
07-11-2002, 10:01 AM
[quote]Originally posted by td741:
<strong>Although it might not be the same and as glamourous as a BUNG cart, but there's always the possibility of using CD-R's and a NEOCD for developement as well. I wonder if the NeoCD will take CDRW's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good point. And no, the Neo CD does not accept CD-RWs. It's an old drive, that's why.

Evil Wasabi
07-11-2002, 10:14 AM
on cdrws - i bet if you open the neo cd, and look on the drive, usually on the little box thing that goes along the track, that has the lense and the laser, there will be a screw of some sorts which regulates the intensity. if you turn it up a bit, it should read cdrw's, but unless you get it just right, it might not read cds/cdrs untill you turn it back.

as far as a bung type devie goes - why would you need one? wouldnt it be cheaper and more efficent to program it on the pc, and then test it with an emulator? wasting all the time/money on a copier wouldnt be worth it. once your done with the game, then all you need is a eprom burner, and some eproms and your set.

did i mention i'd be willing to help anyone on any aspect of their games except the programming :D i could do graphics, sound, level design, etc. just no programming.

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: sonic1687 ]</p>

cox_xoc
07-11-2002, 12:46 PM
Kids, kids, kids. The hint was shown earlier in this post to you. NIGHTMARE TONY has programmed for NEO GEO. I talked to him for a few hours about it before. He says it is very easy actually, and to get any real success ONLY use ASM. He has the tech docs of how to program for the custom chips and all kids. Plus to test the games on the aes/mvs developers were provided a "Developers Cartridge" It was larger (to have memory for huge games for testing w/ debug etc.) and filled with eeproms. Testing is as easy as a burn and test. No emu shit (but that would be cheaper for home peeps. BTW he uses a Apple ][ GS for neo dev :D Old school eh? He said he never has a crash that way, and it works with his Sluggo rom emulator to burn eeproms with.

AT JEFF KURTZ: Nightmare Tony said his fav part of any game development is music. He told me he would love to do music on your games if you would let him. He knows the hardware, and could probably be a big help to you guys.

Hope this helps you all out, and Tony, if you see this, sorry for the almost positive email flood you will receive. He has AIM too: NightmareTony.

Have fun guys,
Josh

Takumaji
07-11-2002, 01:09 PM
sonic1687, it's very likely that you mess up your Neo CD by fiddling with the stepper motor cueing, but that's another story. I don't believe that you could force the NGCD to accept CD-RWs this way.

Anyway, you're right, it's much more efficient and time-saving to code a new Neo game on PC and test it on Mame or Neorage, at least for the home-brew developer. I think it's useless to hunt for one of the legendary SNK devkits (do they exit at all?), because it would cost a fortune to get one of them.

After all, it's home coding we're talking about. I already mentioned that Playmore is not too fond of the amateur Neo coder scene (see the end of NeoDev), such investments in private Neo developement may tear a bigger hole in your pocket than you think... :cool:

m_bish0p
07-11-2002, 02:44 PM
Well, I had a cart for my GB for dev just because the emulators would allow code that the actual GB would not. Also, it's really easy to show off to friends when you have your own game running on your own machine.

It sounds like Nintendo and Playmore talked about this tegether. When I was playing with the GB, there was no support and often talk of lawsuits against everyone on the list. I guess these companies just love to hate thier fans.

Anyway, I just talked it over with my boss, and he told me to build one(a dev cart). I plan on it for home use only, we don't build things here, we design them. I would probably have the only one, but my boss is pushing it because it would give me more experience with schematics and digital hardware, two things he thinks I should learn more about and wants to encourage.

With that said, does anyone have the schematics for a cart with notes? It looks like your basic ROM+mulplexer set up, but I'm sure there's a little more to it than that. I don't want to repeate someone else's hard work, so anything anyone could PM me about the hardware and software side of this would be greatly appreciated!

JMkurtz, what have you written and how do you suggest someone with prior assembly experience get started with the MVS? 6800 code isn't that bad, but what about the custom sprite handling and stuff like that? There were addons to the z80 for the GB,sorta, are there special opcodes for the MVS 68k?

thanks!

Bluevoodu
07-11-2002, 02:56 PM
well right now I am assembling a team... I am asking around, finding out as much as i can.

about the 44.1khz music... Don't record that high.....but you are somewhat right..... I think that 44.zkhz @ 16 bit is more along the lines of 20.3 megs large. At least when I was doing recording it is... that is straight .wav format. You can get a sample and do a few layers, and recording space isn't more.... so 1 layer = drums, and other layer = Guitar. It could work out. The music/SFX will be that last part we do.
I now have 2 people for music and SFX... but I have no one to help with the coding of a sidescroll shooter. I need get D/L Blazing star and pulstar.. and check out their coding.... how ever the heck I do that... fun stuff

YES, we am going to go for a CD release. This is going to take awhile though. I have to learn how to do this first... it is very pain staking if you ask me... but as luther said "I HAVE A DREAM" lol :D

†B†V†

JMKurtz
07-11-2002, 04:03 PM
m_bishop - I have the schematics to the MVS system which I can provide for you. They are kinda tough to read, but may be of help on your project.

Building a flash cart should be pretty straight forward. If I were to take on the task, I would aim to use parts that were already available. I would make it so that it used the GBA flash carts for the P, V, and C roms. Then devise something for the M1 and S1. Then you could use the Linker as your flash programmer and then just plug in the flash carts into the Neo cart that is wired to accept these carts rather than dip roms. Plus you can easily get the source code to the Linker's software which you could then easily modify to work with the standard ROM formats.

Honestly, I'm suprised !Arcade! hasn't made a cart like this already (or have they?) It's pretty simple (in theory). And with the new 512Mb flash carts out now for the GBA, it would be even easier -- so one would think. It would take two of these 512Mb carts to cover the capacity of any Neo game's graphics to date. For V, you would need 128Mb, and for P, you would need 64Mb(?). You would need to work something out for S1 & M1, but that should be too hard since those are very small.

Jeff

JMKurtz
07-11-2002, 04:19 PM
Doing music on the CD is very simple -- you simply make a call into the BIOS to play a CD Audio track. Playing samples is pretty trivial too, although I need to improve our driver. It's the FM sequencing that I just haven't been able to master yet.

For debugging a game (68000 and Z80), use MAME. You can just step through a game while it's running.

As for tech info on sprite registers, etc -- look at the MAME source code. There is a ton of valuable info in there... I can't stress that enough. MAME is the perfect testing tool for the homebrew programmer!!

Jeff

[quote]Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>well right now I am assembling a team... I am asking around, finding out as much as i can.

about the 44.1khz music... Don't record that high.....but you are somewhat right..... I think that 44.zkhz @ 16 bit is more along the lines of 20.3 megs large. At least when I was doing recording it is... that is straight .wav format. You can get a sample and do a few layers, and recording space isn't more.... so 1 layer = drums, and other layer = Guitar. It could work out. The music/SFX will be that last part we do.
I now have 2 people for music and SFX... but I have no one to help with the coding of a sidescroll shooter. I need get D/L Blazing star and pulstar.. and check out their coding.... how ever the heck I do that... fun stuff

YES, we am going to go for a CD release. This is going to take awhile though. I have to learn how to do this first... it is very pain staking if you ask me... but as luther said "I HAVE A DREAM" lol :D

†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

m_bish0p
07-11-2002, 04:20 PM
kurtz, please PM me with a link or anything you have.

actually, what I was thinking was getting some flash chips with an in-curciut programming feature, then using a pic16f877 conected to a computer through a MAX202 for a serial connection. Then I could just download the address, and info, to the PIC and let that burn the flash. That way all I have to do is connect my laptop to the cart while it's seated in the MVS system.

This saves me ordering two boards, and they'll be the most expensive part of the project by far!! Besides, the pics are cheap and easy to program!

anyone know where I could get a clam-shell for this thing when it comes to it? I hate the idea of ruining an SNK product to put my own solder junk in it. Maybe an already dead cart or something someone would sell me cheap? I'm not there yet, but it doesn't hurt to ask!

Daisuke Jigen
07-11-2002, 05:06 PM
Jeff: pelease check your Private Messages.

Takumaji
07-11-2002, 05:20 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JMKurtz:
<strong>Doing music on the CD is very simple -- you simply make a call into the BIOS to play a CD Audio track. Playing samples is pretty trivial too, although I need to improve our driver. It's the FM sequencing that I just haven't been able to master yet. [...] </strong><hr></blockquote>

While I was working with my Yamaha DX-7 synth (based on FM synthesis) a couple of years ago I got some insight into this kind of synth sound programming.

Is this sequencing you mentioned based on playing a batch of FM sounds within a loop, sort of stepping through 32/64 bars of FM sequence commandos (Notator-/Soundtracker-style) which trigger the sounds, or do you mean real-time sequencing, where sounds are created on-the-fly and then sequenced/split across the available sound channels?

I also worked with SIDmon (basically an asm-based sound sequencer) on various 8-bit computers, perhaps there are some similarities between this technique and the Neo's FM synthesis.

Bluevoodu
07-11-2002, 05:28 PM
man... I wish I had more synth experience. I only have Guitar and some recording :(


†B†V†

Daisuke Jigen
07-12-2002, 02:48 AM
Here's some tech info I stumbled across;

<a href="http://neoru.dotnet.lv/texts/neo_tech.php" target="_blank">http://neoru.dotnet.lv/texts/neo_tech.php</a>