Zintrick "concerns"

Gentlemen,
Let me try to bring a point to light in an "as delicate as possible" manner.

I recently had a "pow-wow" with a few of the "moderators" on this forum regarding this game's "release" into the market. The only comment I would like to make at this time in regards to that is that they think I came on too strong, and I think they left me in the dark. This aside, I would like to raise a few concerns that I have about this game.

There are allegidly 5 copies of this game "floating" around. Out of "respect" for privacy I will not say who the other 4 owners are. But that is not important. What is important is that we all know (not through me but through this ebay auction) that Jeff Kurtz is one of these owners.

This is not "debateable" as obviously anyone can see that he is the one auctioning it off.

My concerns are the following:

The game was (is) in the possession of Jeff Kurtz. Jeff Kurtz is a "skilled tech" when it comes to making conversion carts, copying data, etc. Only a naive person would think that he has not kept a "back-up" copy for himself...if not at the very least...the data itself on his computer.

Therefore, there is nothing to prevent him once he "sells" this first copy, from making another. And then after selling that one, another, etc.

The laws of "economics" dictate that each one would sell for less & less then the previous one until eventually he won't even be able to give the game away...at which point that is most likely what he will do..."release" the data to the public.

He claims that he will never "release" (dump) this games data. However people change their minds over time...and furthermore, even if he does not, eventually one of the other owners can/will.

Either way the game will become commonplace
eventually.

Now, this is America. We have the right to do whatever we want. And I would NEVER want it any other way. But it is not what he is doing that upsets me, but the "way" in which he is doing it.

Just like NGF in it's early days. It never bothered us that they were making "complete" home carts of un-released mvs-exclusive carts, what bothered us is that they were passing them off as "super-rare" and "official" to the public.

So in closing, what I am trying to convey here is that I am "unhappy" with how this has all been handled.

If Jeff's intention is to get as much money as he can for this "lucky" find of his, and in order to do so he must auction it to the highest bidder, then I have no problem with that. But the fact that the game could fall into the hands of a "selfish-bastard"(as has been the case in the past with a certain other title did) should raise concerns with all of us.

Their is no reason why he cannot make some money off this game, AND also "contribute" to the community by sharing the data with the public so that everyone can own the game.

Also, I would like to add that I have reason to believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Anonymous & unknown sources have told me that the zintrik data did not come to light by itself. Several other games came with it. So keep in mind that several other "protos" will soon be surfacing.

I guess in the end all I am trying to do here is "inform" the public...just as you guys all do in regards to NGF. Be carefull what you bid on. As I had posted on my now "shut-down" website, the proto market is very unstable. They are both the most and the least valuable games in any game systems market. Be cautious.

Billy

I'm not sure that this is any big deal. Anyone buying the Zintrick home cart would certainly not be stupid enough to think that said cart will remain rare and virtually nonexistent forever, can they? What they're buying is a homebrew packaged home cart of a game that previously only existed on Neo Geo CD, thats all. If in fact more copies are made later, so what? Its always been buyer beware in the Neo market, especially when it comes to buying carts for investments, or expecting them to always hold their values.

If more copies are made, so what? Previous owners can't be mad, can they? If they are, that shows THEIR OWN selfishness, and shouldn't be of any concern to you or the rest of the community.

If more protos come out on home cart, thats GREAT. The whole non-official cart movement (which has been greatly helped along by !Arcade!, thankfully) is a great way to keep our beloved system alive. Having the elitest view that all "protos" or "super rare" carts will remain that way forever is ridiculous and unrealistic.

As for whoever bought the Zintrick, they bought a very cool looking final product on home cart that SNK would never have released. They also bought one of the first copies of the game, and therefore pay a premium for that. If more come later, great. But frankly if they don't, I won't shed any tears either. Since I'm more into pure action games, Zintrick would never have been high on my list as a purchase. That will hold true for many others here as well I think . . .

I wholeheartedly agree here. perhaps the best solution would be !arcade! winning the cart and then doing an actual release of the game.

As a "proto" cart it basically is a given that these are eproms in this cart. Having a full release of this game will not devalue a cart that by all accounts isn't a finished product to begin with.

>Its always been buyer beware when it comes to buying carts for investments, or expecting them to always hold their values.

Hey. I am not talking about "investments". Your right, anyone "investing" in neogeo carts for the sole purpose of trying to make money as they raise in value is a fool. This market is unstable and does not allow for that. HOWEVER, to not be able to expect certain carts to "hold their value" is a given. How can you say it is not?

In this particular case, I think your wrong. Were not talking about something that anyone who really wants to can buy. Were talking about something that is a double-edged sword.
Were also not talking about an "authentic" cart...as a metal slug one per say...but rather a "hacked" home sac cart that has had fake stickers applied to it. the only thing "real" about this game, is the game code itself...not even the roms that contain it!

If you buy the game at $1,000 or whatever it sells for, and then the game is not dumped or readily made available for a certain somewhat-lengthy "grace-period", then it is worth it. However if within a couple months it is all of a sudden dumped and anyone can make their own copy for dirt cheap, then you take a huge hita as the buyer.

If you don't buy the game now with the intention of not getting burned with this and picking it up later down the road for dirt cheap...no problem...UNLESS of course the game ends up NEVER getting dumped, whereby making it raise even higher in value and therefore un-attainable for yourself.

As said:
>perhaps the best solution would be !arcade! winning the cart and then doing an actual release of the game.

Why can't we be "organized" enough as a community to "split" the costs of the game?
Allow the game to go to a central source that in turn turns out as many copies as demand requests and at a reasonable and SAFE pricepoint that will not fluctuate.

The atari world and other gaming communities function in this manner, why can't we?
Billy

Maybe-in THIS case-because of sheer suprise and exitement!
I didn't knew until now that it is possible to convert a CD game onto cart..or that somebody would bother trying that!
I hope that all the guys involved get their fair share of money from this cart.People who manage to solve all the technical problems that such an attempt comes with have my respect-and just now,with SNK gone,we need this kind of enthusiasm more than ever!
I agree with Chimpmeister-any new game helps to keep the neo alive!
The worst thing that could happen is if all the owners of this game would decide just to keep it for themselfes-but even in that case the situation would 'just' be the same as before!

About the risk of buying it NOW...well,to somebody this risk seems to be worth $800 right now.. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">..and i assume that a person which can afford to spent that sum is mature enough to think about the 'consequences'.. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I just hope that this event can be seen as some kind of 'test run'-and now,that the technical problems have been solved,the whole community will one day profit from it-
in the shape of MORE GAMES!

(IRONCLAD... <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0"> )

[ November 22, 2001: Message edited by: Herzog Drei ]

Originally posted by SuperGun:
<STRONG>
My concerns are the following:

The game was (is) in the possession of Jeff Kurtz. Jeff Kurtz is a "skilled tech" when it comes to making conversion carts, copying data, etc. Only a naive person would think that he has not kept a "back-up" copy for himself...if not at the very least...the data itself on his computer.

Therefore, there is nothing to prevent him once he "sells" this first copy, from making another. And then after selling that one, another, etc.

The laws of "economics" dictate that each one would sell for less & less then the previous one until eventually he won't even be able to give the game away...at which point that is most likely what he will do..."release" the data to the public.

He claims that he will never "release" (dump) this games data. However people change their minds over time...and furthermore, even if he does not, eventually one of the other owners can/will.

Either way the game will become commonplace
eventually.

Now, this is America. We have the right to do whatever we want. And I would NEVER want it any other way. But it is not what he is doing that upsets me, but the "way" in which he is doing it.

Just like NGF in it's early days. It never bothered us that they were making "complete" home carts of un-released mvs-exclusive carts, what bothered us is that they were passing them off as "super-rare" and "official" to the public.

So in closing, what I am trying to convey here is that I am "unhappy" with how this has all been handled.

If Jeff's intention is to get as much money as he can for this "lucky" find of his, and in order to do so he must auction it to the highest bidder, then I have no problem with that. But the fact that the game could fall into the hands of a "selfish-bastard"(as has been the case in the past with a certain other title did) should raise concerns with all of us.

Their is no reason why he cannot make some money off this game, AND also "contribute" to the community by sharing the data with the public so that everyone can own the game.

Also, I would like to add that I have reason to believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Anonymous & unknown sources have told me that the zintrik data did not come to light by itself. Several other games came with it. So keep in mind that several other "protos" will soon be surfacing.

I guess in the end all I am trying to do here is "inform" the public...just as you guys all do in regards to NGF. Be carefull what you bid on. As I had posted on my now "shut-down" website, the proto market is very unstable. They are both the most and the least valuable games in any game systems market. Be cautious.

Billy</STRONG>

Click to expand...

So what you're trying to say is that because you somehow wern't told of this game it's your right to be pissed about it?

So it's a rare Neo game. Welcome to reality.

If the game gets mass produced who cares? I have it on NeoCD but this whole post you made looks like nothing more than you crying to someone about something you didn't know about.

Also comparing Jeff to Dion?

Man did you ever fall off the boat or what, If you've been around for a long time as I've know you've been that statement alone was a crock.

I wonder what makes guys like you tick sometimes. All this crying about this game with a huge written out mess when the short end of it could have been explained easy enough with.

Hey!!! Why wasn't I told about this Neo game?!?!?!?

I have a right to know about things like this Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Jeff hasn't done anything wrong and to be quite frank it's stupid enough for you to even gripe about it.

You want the game?

Bid on it or get another copy when it pops up one day.

Easy and simple. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

That guy "uses" to many damn "quotations" <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Sorry, just my 2 cents...

Dude..you have to many concernns.

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">