REPRODUCING RARE carts,neogeo scene is changing..now about to go..

It seems that !arcade! followers CAN'T understand the real danger hidden in REPRODUCING rare home carts.

1)!arcade! says" time to unload your precious collection"
More,"we will put in ONE alteration"

2)Well,none bad mouthed !arcade! yet,we only warned about the REAL NEED that home made home carts be different from original one,CLEARLY DIFFERENT.
If the "one alteration" was the writings !arcade! INSIDE the boards of the cart..wow!,no one will see ANY difference at all and that would be really worse that NGF thing.
IF,OTHERWISE,the difference is easy to see,well all is ok.

From !arcade! is necessary a sign in that direction.

Infact,AS I SAID many times,NONE doubts !arcade! but what about reselling a perfect copy declaring it as a real thing.

More,real collectors will be really suspicious about many super rare carts popping out...

GA,DSD and others are NOT real SNK fans,otherwise they would feel the danger and will ask !arcade! about that.

But hey,how cool is to own a fake Ultimate 11 for $300?
Lacklustersales of the Metal Slug 1 converted carts clearly show up that only not officially released carts sell well.

Anyway,when !arcade! put up pics of his U 11,TSS,Kizuna,if they look the same of the originals..well it will be worse than NGF.
All collectors share my point of view

And only collectors wants rare game.
Players don't give a damn about U 11 ,Kizuna euro and TSS home cart.

I would like Ray to reproduce the rare carts with no alterations. I would like to a US KE without spending $3000. If Ray can do, more power to him. With the reproductions, prices will hopefully fall.

Originally posted by Joe McCabe:
<STRONG>I would like Ray to reproduce the rare carts with no alterations. I would like to a US KE without spending $3000. If Ray can do, more power to him. With the reproductions, prices will hopefully fall.</STRONG>

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Even if SNK is dead,reproducing rare carts CLEARLY breaks the copyrights and it's TOTALLY ILLEGAL.

Damn,Joe,why can't you see the value of what is SNK original?
Why MS 1 by !arcade! sells in a poor way at $299 and MS 1 original SNK seels for $1300+?

The point is that the real value is SNK original stuff.

Anyway,the community of REAL collectors is tight and they won't fall in a trap by some smart reseller who bought cheap from arcade and will try to sell as the real thing..

But I see the support on this topic is very low:
DSD raises his voices only about NGF..other members really don't care about it since maybe they have complete collection..

But it will come a day that many will regret corrupting the neogeo collecting in such way...

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>It seems that !arcade! followers CAN'T understand the real danger hidden in REPRODUCING rare home carts.

1)!arcade! says" time to unload your precious collection"
More,"we will put in ONE alteration"

2)Well,none bad mouthed !arcade! yet,we only warned about the REAL NEED that home made home carts be different from original one,CLEARLY DIFFERENT.
If the "one alteration" was the writings !arcade! INSIDE the boards of the cart..wow!,no one will see ANY difference at all and that would be really worse that NGF thing.
IF,OTHERWISE,the difference is easy to see,well all is ok.

From !arcade! is necessary a sign in that direction.

Infact,AS I SAID many times,NONE doubts !arcade! but what about reselling a perfect copy declaring it as a real thing.

More,real collectors will be really suspicious about many super rare carts popping out...

GA,DSD and others are NOT real SNK fans,otherwise they would feel the danger and will ask !arcade! about that.

But hey,how cool is to own a fake Ultimate 11 for $300?
Lacklustersales of the Metal Slug 1 converted carts clearly show up that only not officially released carts sell well.

Anyway,when !arcade! put up pics of his U 11,TSS,Kizuna,if they look the same of the originals..well it will be worse than NGF.
All collectors share my point of view

And only collectors wants rare game.
Players don't give a damn about U 11 ,Kizuna euro and TSS home cart.</STRONG>

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Words of wisdom, as usual... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by BRANDI:
<STRONG>Words of wisdom, as usual... <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

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sucking up, as ushual

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Caris,what about a useful reply?

Rarehero,I hear you well...

Damn,Joe,why can't you see the value of what is SNK original?

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Because I am not stupid enough to pay $3000 for a damn videogame. Who cares if it's SNK original or not. I don't. But I wouldn't pay $400 for Ray's reproduction.

Joe,
you got anyway the point.
A reproduction is worth $100 or little more since it's a copy and nothing more.
But you must admit that an ORIGINAL one holds really avalue,EVEN IF you wouldn't pay $1 for it.

FTL,

it is not a big issue for the reason that there will be a difference.

You can turn a savage reign NGH into A kizuna fairly simply provided you had the artwork to copy but you can always tell the real deal from a copy. Exspecial if you Intentional make a minor change on the layout.

Now if arcade was coping the materials exactly and selling them as orginal then there would be a problem.

but I am sure you will be able to notice this from the outside of the box.

if you are concerned about people selling the NGH's as orginals, well you will have that problem even if they change the artwork from someone simply scanning the inserts and manuals of an orginal. I have recieved several HK NGCD's and a couple of scan labled NGH and insert NGH's because of this before !arcade!

Metal slug is a prime example of that. so as a collector you would have to be careful and well informed on the difference.

as a gamer it is great to have the option if you want the game in NGH but do not want to pay the price for the orginal.

NGF takes orginals collectable NGH's and destroys there value by putting thier hype on it and would also take that same NGH that is converted and sell it as orginal.
There is no comparasion and that is the difference.

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>Even if SNK is dead,reproducing rare carts CLEARLY breaks the copyrights and it's TOTALLY ILLEGAL.
</STRONG>

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How do you know !Arcade! doesnt have permission from the developers?

I seriously dont think people will be "mislead" by thinking the !Arcade! version for the original. If ass hole sellers decide to lie and state that the cart is original, then its their ass on the line, not !Arcades!.

I still dont understand why this is such a huge deal with collectors. You all will still be looking for originals, and avoid the reproductions. Its not like this is the first thing to ever be reporduced. Comic books, baseball cards, antiques, books, furniture. etc etc etcc have had reproductions made. Its not like its a new thing. Collectors still look for the originals and know a reproduction if they see it. Perfect example is Antique Roadshow.

I seriously doubt anyone who is willing to spend $1000+ on a cart will not look and ask if it is a reproduction. Collectors already do that with NGF stuff. People will know what they are buying... If I was willing to fork over the cash for high end games, I guarantee I would be asking all the questions. People arent that stupid... or maybe they are...

More,hunting down for rare carts is the REAL fun in the neogeo home carts world,but maybe the matter will sound better so:

Blazing stars will be worth $199 or so,if it will be perfectlt duplicated
Pulstar the same
Magical drop 3 the same

and so on.

Now,to quote !arcade!, ...you all can begin to unload your rare home carts,US or jap.

I think you being overly concerned.

as I stated Metal slug has been available as a converted NGH for a long time now. and how much has the orginals NGH version dropped.

do you not think the same will apply to U11 or Kizuna?

First let me say that I agree with everything Big Bruno Said.

FTL, there is no reason to be so concerned. These carts are not going to be marketed towards collectors like you.
People who are willing to pay $900 for a Twinkle Star Sprites are paying that price ONLY because it is a legitimate copy. Whether or not there are better, cheaper alternatives to paying this price is irrelevant because there are only a few real, authentic, scarce AES copies of this game.

!Arcade!'s new carts will appeal to those who want Twinkle Star Sprites in their AES collection, but not as a "collectors" piece, but rather to simply have the game on AES. In my opinion these games will not affect the value of the authentic games in the eyes of true collectors like yourself.

It's not gonna effect anything! Metal Slug 1 has proved this, you can get a converted cart from many places, that looks just as cool as the original, yet US slug 1's still go for a grand + on ebay.

Also !Arcade! isn't exactly making thousands of these games here, he's making what, like runs of around 50? Yea that's really gonna "crash" the scene.

The prices for originals won't go down till the demand does, re-prints won't effect people wanting originals, if anyone hasn't noticed, there already is a cheaper alternative, it's called MVS carts, Slug 1's are what 50? Last time I checked their is an MVS converter for the home system...

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Drift King EX ]

Originally posted by Big Bruno:
[QB]FTL,

Now if arcade was coping the materials exactly and selling them as orginal then there would be a problem.

but I am sure you will be able to notice this from the outside of the box.

QB]

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Big Bruno,
how could I tell the difference form original one and a perfect reproduction?
!arcade! CAN make perfect reproduction,not like those jerks at NGF.
I mean,their copy of US Kizuna is very funny and it's easy to spot the difference.
But what if you CAN'T spot the difference?

The ONLY way is that there be a difference,BIG alteration so you can see it's a fake.
Sine it's only a fake after all,no matters how good the reproduction is,it's a fake home carts.

NTM: it's really hard to believe that.
It's amazing how pople are ready to belive about impossible thing.

!Arcade! will not misrepresent the cart when it is sold the first time. after that it is up to the individual re-saler to be honest in the transaction. You bring up my name in this post and I dont know why?

I am all for the common guy being able to play Video Games, not the ultra Rich!! If them reproducing Neo carts fucks up your "Investment" You should have known better in the first place. Video Games are not an investment they are entertainment!!

I have said this before and I will say it again, anyone who buys a Video Game as an "Investment" should have thier head examined!!! Play the games and enjoy them. Because if you think you are going to get rich one day because you own a "Rare" Neo Geo cart then you are very mistaken.

GA isnt a true SNK fan? Why is that? Because I dont believe in pissing my money away to a dead God, or handing it out like a fool to someone like Shawn or NGF for something they paid half of what they are asking for it? Those are the ones who arent the Fans!! Keeping the price so high the common "Working Man" cant afford to take food from his kids mouth for a $800 Home Cart. These individuals and the "Investment" collectors are the ones who really killed SNK by keeping the Neo Geo out of the hands of the common man with insane pricing and pricelists.

In short I am for the gamer and love of the hobby not the dollar amount.

Originally posted by GamersAbyss:
<STRONG>!Arcade! will not misrepresent the cart when it is sold the first time. after that it is up to the individual re-saler to be honest in the transaction. You bring up my name in this post and I dont know why?

</STRONG>

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I bring up your name as you seem to be a great supporter for them.
The fact,GA that if Arcade will do the right thing will have to AVOID potential reselling scam..do you get what I mean?

I'm for the games and not for the dollars.
But I'm not for the scams.

Gamers WILL be happy with a home made cart DIFFERENT in a clear way from the original.

You know,it seems more likely to happen to make money REPRODUCING in identical way rare home carts..think about it.

Geddon,
what if a real collector can't see if he is buying a copy or an original due to PERFECT reproduction and due to the fact that HE HAS NEVER SEEN AN OFFICIAL U 11 US or KIZUNA euro?

Should I pay an expertize like for a rare and precious gem?

Better leaving the scene instead of this pain.
Collecting one time was a pleasure.

GA: I don't really care about money in vg and you know,I would like the neogeo scene would remain as it was before .

Big Bear you said words of wisdom.
The scene is totally dark..bootlegs,NGF,and NOW fake home carts ready to rumble.

>>>>>
Geddon,
what if a real collector can't see if he is buying a copy or an original due to PERFECT reproduction and due to the fact that HE HAS NEVER SEEN AN OFFICIAL U 11 US or KIZUNA euro?
Should I pay an expertize like for a rare and precious gem?

Better leaving the scene instead of this pain.
Collecting one time was a pleasure.
>>>>>


Well, my intuition says that !Arcade! will have a sense of decency and respect for the hobby that will prevent him from making perfect reproductions. I have a feeling all of his carts will be properly "watermarked."

As for the scene being DARK, yes, but as a collector, look at it this way. Think about how more precious your own authentic carts will be knowing that you have located them in a sea of illegitimate merchandise. And I believe long time collectors like yourself have the skills necessary to identify even seemingly perfect fake reproductions.

HELL YEAH i hope that !arcade! makes exact reproductions of all the rare or uncommon carts games. cuz i do not want to spend a million dollars buying games and hunting them down. i am in this for the love of neo games and to collect them all reguardless of price value (prefferbly cheap! lol) cuz not all of us have millions to blow away on a a game that is a $1000 bucks. and at that fact some of the games u find once in a blue moon then u have to pray u got the money for it. the only thing i think is that !arcade! should make the carts with somethin on the outside of it so u can tell its not a real one. so i am all for it GIVE ME REPRODUCED CARTS OR GIVE ME MONEY!!!!!!! lol <IMG SRC="smilies/eek2.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>Geddon,
what if a real collector can't see if he is buying a copy or an original due to PERFECT reproduction and due to the fact that HE HAS NEVER SEEN AN OFFICIAL U 11 US or KIZUNA euro?</STRONG>

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Well the thing is a realNeo collector or any collector in any type of hobby does research and work on trying to find out where the item came from & tries to discover any differences.

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>Should I pay an expertize like for a rare and precious gem?</STRONG>

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It's up to you really but I think you're still blowing this out of whack considering this type of stuff has been done for years.

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>Better leaving the scene instead of this pain.
Collecting one time was a pleasure.</STRONG>

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Yeah it used to be ask yourself this. Why do you think some of us stuck through NGF's bullshit for so long? We stayed around to enjoy the hobby for its games. I've always been more a gamer than collector and the people who know me realize I speak freely about wanting everyone to enjoy the Neo & it's games.

If I was totally disgusted by something in the scene I wouldn't quit. I would just go on about my business and keep playing. In the end all your griping about this isn't going to mean a hill of beans as long as people who are smart in their purchasing on Neo games then this should not be a problem. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>GA: I don't really care about money in vg and you know,I would like the neogeo scene would remain as it was before .</STRONG>

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Oh hell no!!!
I.mot sure what you mean as before but even tho I don't agree with a lot of things Shawn has done but I prefer this kinda of thing right now compared to the Dion days when he used to have his thump up everyone's asses saying 'I AM NEOGEO' and everyone was stupid for not trusting his word when he said every single Neo Game was made on AES. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>Big Bear you said words of wisdom.
The scene is totally dark..bootlegs,NGF,and NOW fake home carts ready to rumble.</STRONG>

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Well SNK is gone and what do you expect to happen? There is a demand & want for these games still and SNK can not fill this void.

!Arcade! will already tell you straight up that the cart is a conversion and not an original AES so there's that.

It's upto the people who buy those games and resell it to keep that same level of honesty.

As far as NGF, Well Dion & Chris's history speaks for itself. They arn't even a real factor anymore.

Oh in case you guys are unaware I know that asshole Chris is still contacting people in emails offering services. So let me say this.

Even what he offers to you seems too good to be true, DON'T DEAL WITH HIS ASS. Period.

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: BonusKun ]

I agree with FTL on this subject. !Arcade!, PLEASE watermark your carts or put your url in the manual. Do SOMETHING to differentiate. I just don't want to make a significant investment only find out that I have been ripped off at a later date.

Thoughts I got from a great and expert collector :

"Unfortunately, it may be hard to tell if Ray Young made a fake game. NGF
got caught with fake English KOF 2000 for stupid reasons. First they used a
sticker with square corners, while SNK cart stickers use rounded corners.
Second, there were some differences in the manual, like a couple missing
pictures, or a picture in the wrong spot. These were noticeable with the
naked eye and led to an in depth analysis by a member of Neo-Geo.com,
Kiselgof I believe. He put the game under a microscope and noticed many
other inconsistencies such as a different paper stock than SNK games, and a
different printing method. These discrepancies are not detectable by the
naked eye, or touch. Ray Young is smart. If he were to produce fake games,
he would certainly not make errors that could be seen or felt. If someone
has the ambition, they might do an analysis like Kiselgof, but the average
person cannot or will not do that. A good fake could probably be introduced
easily. The only good thing is that the Neo scene is pretty tight. Most
collectors will be skeptical of 3 copies of the rarest game just popping up
like that. I know I am."

Originally posted by BonusKun:
<STRONG>Oh in case you guys are unaware I know that asshole Chris is still contacting people in emails offering services. So let me say this.

</STRONG>

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Services you say...? Fuck that, I dont
swing that way.

Originally posted by FTL:
<STRONG>Thoughts I got from a great and expert collector :

"Unfortunately, it may be hard to tell if Ray Young made a fake game. NGF
got caught with fake English KOF 2000 for stupid reasons. First they used a
sticker with square corners, while SNK cart stickers use rounded corners.
Second, there were some differences in the manual, like a couple missing
pictures, or a picture in the wrong spot. These were noticeable with the
naked eye and led to an in depth analysis by a member of Neo-Geo.com,
Kiselgof I believe. He put the game under a microscope and noticed many
other inconsistencies such as a different paper stock than SNK games, and a
different printing method. These discrepancies are not detectable by the
naked eye, or touch. Ray Young is smart. If he were to produce fake games,
he would certainly not make errors that could be seen or felt. If someone
has the ambition, they might do an analysis like Kiselgof, but the average
person cannot or will not do that. A good fake could probably be introduced
easily. The only good thing is that the Neo scene is pretty tight. Most
collectors will be skeptical of 3 copies of the rarest game just popping up
like that. I know I am."</STRONG>

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So this is a questions of Ray's integrity here or are you suggesting soemthing else?