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Shawn
10-16-2000, 12:03 PM
Last warning from Dion, this was the subject of the email at least. I will let the members of these forums decide if the NGF related threads should be deleted or not.


Email from Dion, sent Mon 10/16/00 9:43 AM:
Shawn, I have called you on the telephone and given you a fair warning to remove all public bases threads about myself, Chris Ray, and NGF.

Chris has also warned you by email and over the phone.
http://www.gcwf.com/articles/cyber/definter.html

also read http://www.dancingwithlawyers.com/freeinfo/libel.shtml

We are not public figures, we are private individuals. We have never bashed or bad mouthed you or anyone else's business practices. Any of those are punishable in court and NGF WILL PURSUE THIS MATTER WITH ALL PEOPLE INVOLVED.

Please remove any negative comments about Dion, Chris, and NGF. That was the main reason I called you. I am giving you the chance to walk away from all of this clean and free. Others won't be so lucky.

After that, I would like to keep doing deals with you.

thanks,
Dion

chimpmeister
10-16-2000, 12:11 PM
What a COMPLETE joke!!!

Dion and Chris' reputation is DEAD, and now he's trying to HIDE posts that were made to a PUBLIC FORUM!!!

That guy is COMPLETELY PATHETIC.

My answer, IGNORE his threatening emails . . . and if necessary, REPORT him to abuse@aol.com. This is a FREE forum, protected by the laws of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

If he changed his SLEAZY BUSINESS PRACTICES, then he wouldn't NEED to try to COVER UP the TRUTHFUL POSTS in this forum!

http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/mad.gif http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/mad.gif http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/mad.gif http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/mad.gif

Iori
10-16-2000, 12:15 PM
I guess that post in "The New NGF" wasn't Dion after all. That's bullshit, man. It isn't libel if it's the TRUTH. have a nice day, everybody.

Big Bruno
10-16-2000, 12:20 PM
sounds more like he is trying to build a defamation of charater case. you can probably just place a message on the board saying that www.Neo-geo.com (http://www.Neo-geo.com) is not responsable for any post or whatever. but you may want to talk to someone with a legal background.

Iori
10-16-2000, 12:33 PM
What character is there to defame?

Billkwando
10-16-2000, 12:35 PM
Yeah, that just means that this place is BEYOND dion's PR skills, so he insists that we stop talking about him, because he knows he's lost the fight...

Thanks,
Billkwando
http://grador.radix.net/~kws/trey/utngmlink.gif http://www.undertheneogeomoon.com

rstreck
10-16-2000, 12:40 PM
Shawn,

You have nothing to worry about. First off, there is no way, the "Corporation" of NeoGeoFreak can bring any king of lawsuit against anyone. I am certain that they are not recognized anywhere as an actual corporation or company. Do they have patents? Do they pay taxes on their business? Are they even registered as a Company and or Corporation? I think the answer to all these questions is most likely no. So therefore, the "Corporation" of NGF cannot bring any kind of suit against anyone. As far as Dion and Chris as private individuals go. They can sue for liable and slander, but only if the people that they file suit against have never dealt with them. Any person that has actually dealt with Dion and Chris has an absolute right to give their opinions, be it good or bad, about the transactions. However, people who haven't dealt with them do not have the right to badmouth or slander their business practices. That is called liable. It would be okay for someone who never dealt with them to call then assholes or jerks or whatever as long as it's a personal attack and not an attack on their business practices. I hope some of this info helps. BTW: I hope to be starting my first year of law school at The University Of Pennslyvania next fall.

Ryan

chimpmeister
10-16-2000, 12:46 PM
Where is defamation of character? These are FACTS:

-- Dion ripped off Keith by never sending the two cartridges he paid for. THEFT. He also did not send items to Geddon (John?), THEFT.
-- Dion ripped off Lee by first sending him a fake Ninja Master's cart (which was a CONVERTED cart, with a MANUFACTURED insert, and he DID NOT TELL LEE that the cart was NOT AUTHENTIC SNK ORIGINAL); then when Lee sent the cart back to him, Dion claimed he never got it. Let's name that one? ________
-- Dion/Chris ("NGF") made a FAKE KOF 2000 HOME CARTRIDGE (not yet officially released by SNK), and offered it for sale on eBay TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE OFFICIAL PRODUCT IS TO BE RELEASED. They have NO LICENSE or AUTHORITY to use SNK artwork, or to claim that the cartridge they "manufactured" is OFFICIAL in ANY WAY. Sale of FAKE ITEMS. EBay ENDED the auction TWO TIMES, as a result of MANY complaints filed by Neo fans, and in RECOGNITION that the item for sale was NOT LEGAL.
-- Dion's website has pictures of all the FAKE cartridges he offers for sale, such as Strikers 1945 Plus, Shock Troopers, etc. None of these cartridges came out for the Neo Geo Home Cartridge system at all; the versions he shows have SNK ARTWORK all over the inserts, and that ARTWORK is COPYRIGHTED. Copyright infringement.

etc. etc. etc. the list can go on for PAGES.

Big Bruno
10-16-2000, 12:54 PM
ok really I'm no defending but I can think of several referals to them as being from alternative backgrounds not to mention the use of there images without premission in certain compromising or unflaterring positions. Its is ok to state oppinion on people and things, but there is a legal line. if someone publicly told every i did something or was a certain way that was untrue that caused me damges I could sue that person for the damages.

But as I said it is ok to say thing about them you can back up or express a oppinion but name calling can be considered a defamation of character and since Shawn runs this BBS and moderates the forums this is going on in not to mention him having a lot of money, they are probably looking in ways to get back at what has happen and are picking on him.


this is all my personal oppinion on what is going on and I said I am no lawyer, but it makes sense to me.

VinylBoy
10-16-2000, 01:00 PM
I guess that since this IS a public forum about the Neo Geo, and everything that NGF does is self-presented in the "public eye", then anybody has a right to make any sort of comment, whether it be positive or negative, in a forum like this.

If they didn't want to be burned, they should have never started the fire in the first place. It also didn't help for them to come to the bonfire under various aliases and add more gas to the flame while it was spreading. It's sad to see it happen, but hey... the folks at NGF were the ones that brought the ruckus in the beginning.

STILL, I only wonder that if NGF was on the side of "good" would any of this ever traspired?

Lord Illicious
10-16-2000, 01:05 PM
Ima keep the name confidentcial but heres a few emails i got saying thanx:


Mr. Lord
<<thanks for all your help. I have contacted yahoo and I will see if they can
clear up anything for me, in addition to what you suggested. I am sure I
will get it right one of these days! http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif >>

No Good Fucks
<<
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You are a godsend to all Neo Geo fans out there. NGF is royally fucking up the Neo Geo World for everyone out there. I support yours facts about NGF 100%. THANK YOU so much for that wonderful auction! If your ever need anything please email me at ********@****.net
Neo Geo Freak MUST DIE!

Respectfully,
***** *. *****>>

NGF auction
<<Hello Lord Illicious aka Primal Massiah,
Well since you've taken down your paraody
of their auction, NGF has relisted it and crowing
about it on the neo-geo.com forums. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=467158784
They say they've made 7 sales off it allready?
Posted on their website, www.neogeofreak.com/ (http://www.neogeofreak.com/)

Just thought I'd pass that along since I enjoyed
your 1st parody auction. That was funny as hell.

*************>>

NGF
<<Saw your your KOF2000 Scam listing - thank god someone is doing something about it!

Interested in joining the forum - please let me know the details (and yes I do own a Neo AES!)

Also why the hell do e-bay let these guys get away with this?

Kind Regards, ***** (e-bay id: ***********)>>


Hi Dion Killer
<<Hi!

I'm a french Neo Geo fan, totally ill seeing this Neo Geo Fric (fric means
money in France) getting the ass of neo fans ripped off... When i've seen
there auction, i was really disapointed, and then, i see your version...
ROFL!!! That's way cool! I don't even imagine the face of these poor guys
seeing every Ebay user laughing at em...

Hope we'll talk soon, see ya!

*****>>

Club Invite
<<Hello:

My name is *** ***** and I am the owner of ******* I
caught the auction spoof of yours, WELL DONE!!!. I would
not worry too much about NGF though, very shortly now we
are going to be releasing a few things that will certainly
put an end to NGF and all their bullshit.

We do not post a lot on ***** forum but we do monitor it,
and rest assured being a cross platform gamer myself, I am
pretty tired of people like NGF, the majority of people
while their intentions are good really do not do anything
but complain, I on the other hand intend to put this prick
out of business. I have the resources, knowledge, as well
as the equipment to do it and will be using them to bring
out some preety cool stuff shortly.

Anyways enough ranting, can you do me a favour and send me
an invite to your forum, I would like to check it out.

Best Regards
*** *****>>


Seems we now knoe why Dion is pissed.

chimpmeister
10-16-2000, 01:15 PM
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong . . . but rstreck had a BRILLIANT INSIGHT that just occurred to me! And its right here:

*** Do they pay taxes on their business? ***

I read through rstreck's post, and then it dawned on me: "NGF" has probably NEVER PAID A DIME in TAXES on ALL THOSE CARTRIDGES THEY SOLD!!!

Now Shawn, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be considered TAX FRAUD? NOT PAYING TAXES ON THE PROFITS FOR PRODUCTS YOU SOLD? Sales from "NGF" amount to probably TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, and the TAX LIABILITY on all those sales was probably NEVER PAID!!!!

Uh, maybe Dion and Chris would like to re-think this whole thing . . . Shawn certainly has plenty of evidence for the money he sent them, and for the products he acquired from "NGF".

http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Shawn
10-16-2000, 01:38 PM
I donít believe sales tax exists for purchases made over the Internet and out of state. But they would be liable for income tax.

yuckydog
10-16-2000, 01:38 PM
I did a search with the Secretary of State of Nevada and unless they're incorporated under a different name and using Neo Geo Freak, or some variation thereof, as a DBA they're not even incorporated. They could very well be a mom & pop operation but they certainly are not a corporation.

James

Robi15
10-16-2000, 01:55 PM
From this day on i publicly HATE NGF!
This is so low. Don't worry Shawn. If they loose in court they have to pay you BIG money! You could sue them!

I just can't understand that why you havn't brought chardgers upon them? Look at the service they provide? Look at Mouse Master's deal. They are so low. Pathetic people. They are rapeing NEO GEO.

I have not made any deals with them but I almost did. I liked they'r artwork and I can give them credit for that. I wanted to buy iserts/stickers and they asked way over prices for them. They say that NGF iserts makes the converted game more valuable. Yeah, right.

Robi15

Iori
10-16-2000, 01:59 PM
Yuckydog, Did you try Colorado?

[This message has been edited by Iori (edited October 16, 2000).]

Asmoday
10-16-2000, 02:01 PM
Honestly, if all the Dion posts were erased you would see about the same number of them come back up in a matter of a couple days revolving around this letter and his attempts to control what is said about him in a public forum. I don't think the posts will stop until he isn't in business and stops posting himself. Too many people have some serious animosity towards him and I don't see that changing any time soon. I don't care one way or the other from a personal standpoint. I have never dealt with Dion or his group, but I have seen first hand some of what he pulls between my years in Neo forums and seeing a couple of his products. If the real question is can he file legal charges: well, you can file legal charges for just about anything if you have the time and the cash to waste nowdays. Will they be successful is another matter. Just post some legal BS about the views expressed in this public forum not necissarily being your own. The only posts I can recall you making yourself were the ones about the Strikers cart that you sent to Jeff Kurtz and you guys have documented proof about your claims there so you are probably covered on that. He knows this group is a lost cause for him, but most likely he is trying to stop some of his Ebay troubles courtesy of Illicious so he is putting out a scare tactic. As has been said before, it isn't slanderous if what has been said can be proven true in court. Cart deals have a paper trail if you do them correctly and product received can be examined. Pot shots at one's sexuality and the like are unwarranted, but unlikely to stand up in court alone unless it is a discrimination case.

BryLmoo
10-16-2000, 03:08 PM
For once, just once....Dion actually spoke with a good attitude....I'm impressed...do you think he could do that when we talk nicely to him????? I'f that will ever happen.....

Bryan -AGAINST NGF-

lump505
10-16-2000, 04:37 PM
That is a bullshit letter. "and i would like to continue doing deals with you"?

come on.

He is just waiting to steal your money. He wants you to pay $4000 for a fuckin rug. OH MY GOD I cant beleive he thinks people are that stupid.

What a fuckin retard. (negative comment, i am gonna get sued. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Big Bruno
10-16-2000, 06:06 PM
actually though if you think Dion, chris or neo freak every did take action that Shawn could counter sue. Just bring the wolf and cub book and the many mvs marquess that were scanned in making the carts. since shawn owns all of them he can show first hand what the work looks like. the simple pictures on there website only would do them in. Even if they did have premission to use the artwork on thier homecart products some of the artwork was not taken from SNK.

I still think the name calling should stop and picture muniplation should stop but if it ever did go to trial a lot of proof would need to be provided by NGF to show it is ok for them to do what they do and I do not think that proof is out there (especial the Ganyru cart cover)

Big Bruno
10-16-2000, 06:11 PM
also all you kids under 18 can not be sued, but your parents can http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif

JRock917
10-16-2000, 06:12 PM
This is absolutely amazing. Shawn, thanks to your objectiveness and impartiality, these forums have remained and I hope do remain a stronghold of free speach. I thought one of the most wonderful things about the net was that people are able to express their views here, no matter what they are, without worry of getting sued or otherwise having legal action taken against them, at least in regard to what they say to each other or what they say in a setting like these forums. I was not against NGF until I read about their crooked business practices; when I inquired about the price of the scam cart of KOF 2000 and then posted the ridiculous price of $1200 on this site for everyone to see, I received an email from Dion attacking me and making very derogative statements. Did I try to sue him or NGF? Hell no, but I still speak my mind on what I think about them, no matter what it is. Again I must reinterate, these forums are a bastion of free speech and their integrity to allow such should be protected and not threatened by such insecure and immature people. I, like many neo freaks, come to these forums to laugh, talk, and learn the truth, and I dread the thought of that ever being taken away. And what about people new to the scene? They need forums like this one and the others which take the truth and make it painfully obvious. I do not see anyone shutting down sites like "kkk.com" or "rotten.com", and what sites like those have to portray are most definitely controversial and in many ways just plain wrong. So why attack a site which just lets people freely speak their mind, or attempt to otherwise have it shut down? Shut it down because it is effectively shutting you down, shut it down before too many more people learn the truth and there are no more "big tymers". I know I am only one person, but I think that if NGF does not like what is said about them here, they should not read it; if they do not want a bad reputation, then they should treat their customers with honesty and dignity, not as stupid, worthless "non-collectors".

Iori
10-16-2000, 06:20 PM
well said JRock. Remember that you're not just one person, we are many. They are two.

Lord Illicious
10-16-2000, 06:30 PM
Very well said JRock very well said.

Iori
10-16-2000, 09:17 PM
If this was "The O'Reilly Factor", this would definitely be the most rediculous item of the day.

Shawn
10-16-2000, 10:39 PM
Itís unanimous. Not a single person is demanding that I remove the truth, so itís staying here permanently. Free speech is very important. My intentions are to run these forums exactly the opposite of how NGF would run them. I strongly believe this is the key to success, do the opposite of NGF. Same theory applies to the business sector as well. At least we can learn from Dionís mistakes, too bad he cannot learn from them.

Shawn
10-16-2000, 10:43 PM
I hope this Dion incident does not delay my Strikers repair from Chris Ray. I also sent Mahjong Jansin and Neo Driftout, NGF unreleased carts, for sticker repairs. Both carts were experiencing bubbles. Jansinís sticker in particular was an extremely sloppy job. A black magic marker had been run around the stickerís edges, bubbles were abundant, and glue was applied hastily. The Jansin was the only game sent from Dion, which explains the poor sticker application. I just hope the inside does not look anything like the outside. The other 7 unreleased cart stickers were free of bubbles and peeling, which were sent from Chris.

nick_th_fury
10-16-2000, 10:47 PM
I agree with you on this BigBruno. It can be very funny. But these images should not be placed on a permenant BBS like this. On a personal website/email is where it should stay. Also I dont like people using other folks names. Using your own name or a handle is cool. Anonymous is ok in the war room. But registering using the name of another posting member is uncool. No matter who it is.
-nick_th_fury
-----------------------------
I still think the name calling should stop and picture muniplation should stop

chimpmeister
10-16-2000, 11:43 PM
Good decision, Shawn. The integrity of the forums would be compromised if you were to go back and delete selective posts, based on one or two people's threats. The whole "take everyone to court" thing is really kind of silly . . . since there is no grounds whatsoever for it.

Anyway, I'm sure that Chris will fix the problems you had with Strikers and the other two carts. You paid for them already, and a fair sum of money at that; no reason not to make sure that you are satisfied. http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/smile.gif

lemonflav
10-16-2000, 11:49 PM
What is the matter with everyone!
If their are people who like to buy games from Dion then so be it. The rest of us who read all the postings about him, know what type of person he is should simply not buy anthing from him. I personally meet Dion once face to face and he tried to sell me a ghetto ass copy of KOF 95. He looked me right in the face and told me that the game comes in an old style box and then when I questioned him about the shitty kinko`s copied cover he told me that`s how it comes. I never delt with him again. So my point is if you want to take a gamble with Dion, go for it. Everyone else,lets stop waisting bandwidth on him. My server is slow enough without having to wait for all the Dion-NGF related bullshit. I love my neo and would like to see more cool things about IT and not about DION!!!!!

Viewpoint
10-17-2000, 02:54 AM
I said it once and I'll keep saying it plain and simple.

Dion, You're an idiot.


BonusKun

JRock917
10-17-2000, 05:22 AM
Well Bonuskun, I definitely dont disagree with you there. Shawn, I am glad you want to maintain the integrity of these forums, and not destroy that which you have so sucessfully authored. As far as name calling and picture manipulation are concerned, I think I can understand not allowing those things from a decency standpoint, but isnt the purpose of the war room to allow members and non members a place to voice their frustrations? Now I realize many such things that might should be in the war room dont always end up there, so if there ever were to be any restrictions on said practices, I feel they should simply be confined to the war room. I just dont want to see free speech compromised in any way on this site so that some things do not have a place anywhere, or that these forums become sterilized for any reason whatsoever. Just a concern, probably not warranted, but expressed if nothing else.

Robi15
10-17-2000, 11:54 AM
lemonflav> I agree with you. Dion will say that "Look, everybody just talks about me and NGF again". Well, how could we not? Threats and scamdeals everywhere.

"Any press is good press" That's true, but now this is getting to big. They are digging theyr own hole.

They also say that: "If you don't have money for it, why blame me?"

That's true. Do not buy from NGF.

The tragic thing is that we do not know what Chris is saying. He does not say much.

Robi15