This dosen't look good... Vektologic in trouble?

It would seem that rather than dead, Aruze’s interests for the coin-op market are alive and well, if only hibernating, and they see themselves as the only providers of games for the SNK platforms, even though they have signed agreements with companies in Korea and Japan to develop licenses held by SNK. The company, like many of the older manufacturers in video amusement, perceive not only the properties, but also released cabinets as directly still owned by their manufacturer.

It is with some extreme feelings that Aruze greeted recent trade reports that a UK company was thinking of adding their name to the list of developers for the MVS platform. Adding insult to injury, the company (VektorLogic) has also claimed to be working on an open architecture development environment for other game companies to follow their lead and create their own games. It has been circulated that upon hearing this news, Aruze through SNK has started to gather legal advice towards stopping VektorLogic from releasing their first game in October in England. Aruze has also made it clear that they will not tolerate any U.S. "Grey Imports" (the name given to outside manufactured products) by SNK supporters.

In an industry hungry for any content, it seems absurd that there should be arguing over games that could help the industry generate badly needed revenue, especially from an amusement manufacturer that is in hibernation regarding the support of new releases. But just to address the questions regarding the legal position (on a International footing), a list of areas that could be breached by new software that could activate legal action has been passed to the REPORT:

Use of Neo Geo or SNK proprietary libraries and source code

Use of Neo Geo or SNK logos or IP (Intellectual Properties)

Use of proprietary SNK MVS hardware features in cartridge design

Tampering with SNK warranty on MVS units by unsupported components

It is obvious that the proposed 3rd Party software will avoid booting up with the memorable Neo Geo loading screen and tune, or will attempt to release their version of an SNK branded property. But in manufacturing cartridges to be able to work with MVS systems in the field, these hopeful game providers will be in danger of breaking at least the first, third and forth points of Aruze’s ownership.

Those in the Japanese amusement sector see Aruze's threats of legal action as attempting to stop game developers from poaching their property, an analogy given by one Japanese source was described as such:

"SNK and the MVS are like a famous bar that needs renovation, Aruze being the landlord who wants to close it down and turn it into a restaurant, but needs money. The new game developers are like regular drinkers in the bar wanting to still use it to drink in and for parties!"

Away from all this talk of bars and drinking, some new rumors could prove Aruze’s commitment to the platform. As reported previously, it seems that more light is being shed on a MVS version of the Capcom vs. SNK series. It was originally promised in 1999 that then SNK would release their own version of the fighting game for their own loyal Neo Geo followers. As Capcom’s fighters have now moved onto the Naomi platform and away from the CPS3 architecture, it has been rumored that the code can now be transferred to other hardware and that the company is investigating a MVS release to make use of the 110,000 MVS platforms in circulation. This rumor has to be treated as still highly volatile, as many things could change Capcom and Aruze’s minds regarding spending on a sequel rather than a new title. One unlikely source has even gone as far as suggesting that rather than continuing to place investments in a platform that will be celebrating its twelfth birthday in a matter of months, Aruze may actually consider a Capcom alliance towards a Naomi release of the King of Fighter 2001, under development between BrezzaSoft and Eolith.

Games that have been rumored to be considered for a possible release on the MVS continues to grow. A list is supplied below, however the REPORT would like to repeat that it treats much of this list as highly skeptical, and waits more attributable sources to confirm the games:

Capcom vs. SNK 2

Aruze/Capcom



King of Fighters 2001

Aruze/Eolith (BrezzaSoft)



Samurai Showdown V

Aruze/TBA



Data East’s Ghost Lop

Aruze/Data East



Crystal of Kings

Aruze/BrezzaSoft



Garou: Mark of the Wolves 2

Aruze/Arc System Works

Neo Sparks

VektorLogic

source: http://www.eventgaming.com/stingerreport/10.html


Jeff... I would love to hear from you on this... and anyone else who has an opinion on this.

That does indeed suck. If Vektor could be in fault of certian legal issues, do you think Aruze would actually go after them? In a way I do, but in a way I dont. I can see how Aruze wants to control their property, what goes into it and what has their name on it. I would think any hardware manufacturer would. I dont know, I would think they would welcome people who want to revitilize the Neo hardware. Sad...

thanks for the news

If their gonna give vektoglogic shit for making their OWN game. They should give that Arcade! guy and Dion shit for pretty much mkaing converted games of SNK's proporty (I say converted cause their all unofficial)

Fuckin' idiots. Those of you that know me know I am really not a volatile type, but this is absolutely INSANE! There are companies out there trying to keep this ANCIENT platform on LIFE SUPPORT, and what do these idiots do? SUE THEM! How goddam dumb is that? no wonder they ran out of money.

And the thing is, Vektor made EVERY EFFORT to work within the cluster fuck of an organization that SNK has become to no avail. Now, Vektor is trying to bring to market a title on a platform that was earlier DOA.

OY! If they were any DUMBER they would dump the MVS and start developing solely for the H64 again! At least they have enough brains not to do that...I THINK. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">

Are we really surprised by this? noooooo......... just another stupid decision from a company that has grown consistently fatter, lazier and stupid throughout the years.

Shouldn't they be safe under the same laws that allowed Tengen to create their games for the NES? Throughout game history companies havew created carts for systems without paying royalties by maufacturing them themselves. Activision carts for ataris, SMS. Tengen carts for NES, even EA's carts for Mega Drive. As long as no original dev. libraries are being used, Vektorlogik should be 100 percent protected.

It's funny how the SNK fan base does more to keep the MVS/Home system alive than SNK themselves do. Now Aruze wants to pretty much bitch slap their most loyal followers.

What a bunch of tards.

Homebrew games are legal, wasn't that company that made that recent Jaguar game totalaly unlicsensed?

Originally posted by Daisuke Jigen:
<STRONG>Shouldn't they be safe under the same laws that allowed Tengen to create their games for the NES? Throughout game history companies havew created carts for systems without paying royalties by maufacturing them themselves. Activision carts for ataris, SMS. Tengen carts for NES, even EA's carts for Mega Drive. As long as no original dev. libraries are being used, Vektorlogik should be 100 percent protected.</STRONG>

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be an ass or un-supportive by this, but some changes might need to be made around here if you want to keep going.

Use of Neo Geo or SNK logos or IP (Intellectual Properties)

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This site would seem to infringe upon that...

heh every neogeo site on the net infinges on that. Do you really think SNK will go after every fan site that has stuff up about them? No, it would do no good if they did.

Your allowed to use stuff for fan based purposes, look at all the FF and Sega fan sites. However this site does make money, so I could see SNK not wanting someone to make money off their images.

Still it's a hard ass thing to do.

Originally posted by K' Yo:
<STRONG>I'm not trying to be an ass or un-supportive by this, but some changes might need to be made around here if you want to keep going.
This site would seem to infringe upon that...</STRONG>

Click to expand...

I agree, but I'm sure Shawn would rather it pointed out by a member than by an Aruze lawyer down the road. Dropping that subject now. <IMG SRC="smilies/shame.gif" border="0">

Yea, I could see them making shawn and other sites that MAKE money from using original SNK artwork and stuff. But they cant enforce it for fan sites.

Cause for them to go after every fan site, would cost them so much money, they wouldnt bother. If their gonna crack down on anyone, go after all the neogeo rom sites, like those guys cracking the encryption, put em all in jail <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by K' Yo:
<STRONG>I agree, but I'm sure Shawn would rather it pointed out by a member than by an Aruze lawyer down the road. Dropping that subject now. <IMG SRC="smilies/shame.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

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I'll pick my words carefully here - just in case - but...

I am not too worried about this, for many of the reasons listed above. I have still not heard from Aruze or SNK on the above matters and have a meeting with SNK in August in Osaka to discuss several issues concerning sales and development. Either way - the games are coming out.

I believe that one of the main areas of concern is that a 3rd party developer, who can legitimately release content for the platform, at a significantly lower cost than SNK/ Aruze, could seriously finish off the company - probably within a year.

We will see what follows ;-)

Jeff F

Ya, it seems as if SNK has taken the stace that Vektorlogic is going to be in direct competition with them but the fact of the matter is that we have't seen much from SNK as of late (anything other than rumers that is). I hope that Jeff pulls through all this ok, I don't see what SNK can really do anyways.

it seems as if SNK has taken the stace that Vektorlogic

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That's not a definite till they contact vector.
I find that even professional reporters are often worng, given mistaken info, or just have slanted opinions.

Snk says lots a stuff that never seems to come to pass.

I'll wait to see how this pans out.

This news tho bothering, May not come to pass. I find that even the press can be wrong in situtations like this. The best thing to do is wait and see the outcome of what this means. Hopefully, An agreement can be reachd and games can start being made.

I think what vektologic is doing is freaking awesome. Making your OWN damn games. Like he said the games WILL come out, so I don't think anyone should worry.

SNK should be happy other people wanna make MVS games. Theyve been the ONLY ones making MVS games pretty much for like the last 5 years. People aren't accually breaking down SNK's door to develop MVS games.

I find that even the press can be wrong in situtations like this. The best thing to do is wait and see the outcome of what this means. Hopefully, An agreement can be reachd and games can start being made.

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While I agree, it should be noted that the Stinger REPORT does not claim to be 100 precent correct with its information. If you read the disclaimer, you will see that it is far from perfect in its accuracy. This misconception may have had something to do with it leaving Event Gaming.

The forum is news and rumors and currently this is a rumor. It's nice to get the facts straight from Jeff. <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

Most of the news release concerning snk is rumors now anyway. <IMG SRC="smilies/ohno.gif" border="0">

Looking forward to those games Jeff! <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0">

I thinkwhen it comes down to it, the points in the letter prove that SNK can do nothing:

1. Use of Neo Geo or SNK proprietary libraries and source code

Jeff has already said that these are not used, that they have their own dev kit with all non-SNK libs and headers.

2. Use of Neo Geo or SNK logos or IP (Intellectual Properties)

I can almost put money on it that the SNK logo or boot screen does not appear in Vektorlogiks carts, if it does, now is a good time to pull it out <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">


3. Use of proprietary SNK MVS hardware features in cartridge design

Again Jeff has said that they designed their own carts, plus there are carts similar to an MVS for sale now adays by other companies for other systems...

4.Tampering with SNK warranty on MVS units by unsupported components

This last one applies to the end user, not the software manufacturer. Besides, is Aruze even honoring SNK warranties on 12 year old hardware... who here is going to call Aruze when their Neo Geo breaks? Anyone? Are there any more new Neo Geos being made that have Warranties... this just seems hysterical to me... plus, how can they prove you put in an unoriginal cart? Your board is fried, do you have Neo Sparks.... um, no.. I don't... OK we will honor your Warranty there (hehe, Neo Sparks).

Just seems like Aruze doesn't have a leg to stand on, and I doubt they would try to any way. It is very different responding to a press inquiry then to a business. The question was probably pretty general, and a PR person just gave the companies stance on non-Aruze stuff.... I am sure that does not mean that Aruze is planning to do anything about.

-Nick

Good luck in getting those games out, Jeff. I hope you are able to release several of them and generate enough profit to make many future endeavors!

We all owe it to companies like Vektorlogic, D-R Games and !Arcade! Solutions for supporting a system (and it's fans)that have been all but abandoned by it's creators.

Hopefully companies will be able to work with SNK/Aruze and get them back on their feet. Of course, if they abandon the Neo for Pachinko machines, let's hope they haven't driven the remaining companies away!
- Kyle

GOOD GOD! NO!!

KOF2K1 WILL NOT GO NEAR THE FUCKING NAOMI BOARD! NO!!

I understand that the Naomi board is great and very powerful and has wonderful games, but IF KOF2K1 goes on FUCKING NAOMI I will disregard it COMPLETELY.

SNK, YOU CAN'T FUCKING DO THIS! KOF BELONGS ON NEOGEO!

But then again, Eolith's interview at mmcafe stated that they would be producing it on the MVS board. they wouldn't stop and start all over again now.

would they? <IMG SRC="smilies/mad2.gif" border="0">

I think it all depends on what the cost of starting over on the new hardware/time alloted to finish the project will be and what the projected market saturation will be on Naomi meaning how much they will get in return. In my opnion, it is way to late to make a change... especially for a game due out in Sept. Scrapping and going to Naomi hardware would cost a lot, Neo Geo program is assembly, which means none of the programming can be recycled for Naomi... Besides, this endevor would pusk KOF 2k1 to late 2k2 or 2k3 <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> I would say it is safe to say that KOF will be on MVS one more time, after that though who knows.

One more thing, I really see KOF as a niche game. No matter what platform it is on, it is not going to draw the players like a Capcom game. It is sad, but not a lot of people will know what to make of it. There are not a lot of loyal SNK players out there that will appreciate MOTW characters in the new game, or the really deep combo system. Alot of people will probably say it plays slow... which means, it is not really cost effective to move it over to Naomi. People aren't playing KOF for the graphics, and the people who play the lattest and greatest fighters probably won't know what to make of it. I may be completly wrong, but I think Eolith is better off keeping it MVS and developing new games on the newer technology.

-Nick

Originally posted by NeoGML:
<STRONG>GOOD GOD! NO!!

KOF2K1 WILL NOT GO NEAR THE FUCKING NAOMI BOARD! NO!!

I understand that the Naomi board is great and very powerful and has wonderful games, but IF KOF2K1 goes on FUCKING NAOMI I will disregard it COMPLETELY.

SNK, YOU CAN'T FUCKING DO THIS! KOF BELONGS ON NEOGEO!

But then again, Eolith's interview at mmcafe stated that they would be producing it on the MVS board. they wouldn't stop and start all over again now.

would they? <IMG SRC="smilies/mad2.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

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well thanks nruva for the comforting.

you know something though? I realize that the main reason people don't completely love KOF (with my friends, anyway) is that it's too complex.

I think they're right though, i can't think of another fighter out there that's as deep or complex; i think that fighters have grown too simple, and in some cases, stale.

KOF2000 is just pure super complex fighting glory.

and that's exactly what i paid for <IMG SRC="smilies/smirk.gif" border="0">