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Comrade Porn King Mikhail
09-07-2003, 12:40 AM
Hey guys and gals,

Out of pure boredom (or perhaps a desire to justify my Neo expenditures) I took a trip down to the Sunnyvale Golfland earlier today to experience the new Samurai Shodown in all of its goodness. If the ingame title screen is any indication, it looks like the US version will be named Samurai Shodown V after all (unless that V really stands for “very rehashed material”). The game was receiving regular play from numerous interested parties but was not occupied as frequently as SVCC, probably because it was stuck in an old Warrior’s Rage cabinet with a blurry monitor. I got to watch pretty much the entire game seeing as some guy was hell bent on finishing it (took him 64 credits, with most wasted on the last boss). I only had a 32 MB card on me, but I put it to good use to bring you a few bits of video that will hopefully satiate any cravings until a widespread release. Shawn has contacted me and has been kind enough to offer to host these so that everyone will have a chance to download them without me having to worry about my bandwidth. Thanks go out to Vinh and Chris of SNK-Capcom.com for hosting these over the night to alleviate bandwidth stress on my website. I will take more videos of the other new characters today and will ask Shawn to create a page for all of them here on neo-geo.com.

Each clip is about 10-15 seconds long and ~5MB:

<a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?movie1.mpg" target="_blank">Raoh (Final boss) vs. Nakoruru</a>

<a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?movie2.mpg" target="_blank">Rasetsumaru vs. Nakoruru</a>

<a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?movie3.mpg" target="_blank">Rasetsumaru vs. Hanzo</a>

<a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?movie4.mpg" target="_blank">Rasetsumaru vs. Mina</a>

<a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?movie5.mpg" target="_blank">Ukyo vs. Yoshitora</a>

<a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?movie6.mpg" target="_blank">Yunfei vs. Yoshitora</a>

From what limited play I got, I saw the game as a very balanced visual mix of Samurai 3 and 4. I am not sure if that justifies spending $325+ on a new release, but then most people don’t complain about a new King of Fighters every year, so who am I to spoil the fun. On the other hand, the graphics in this game reek of “rehash” material to the point where they might as well have named is Samurai Shodown X. However, I am not here to judge but to share the convenient proximity of this location to my residence, so enjoy!

Sincerely,

Mikhail

<img src="http://www.shockmatrix.com/ss5/pic1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.shockmatrix.com/ss5/pic2.jpg" alt=" - " />

Edit: Updated video info.

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Kiselgof ]</small>

Trap Gunner
09-07-2003, 12:44 AM
I'm downloading as I type, thanks! That "evil" Haohmaru looks pretty cool.

SNKJorge
09-07-2003, 12:45 AM
Looks good. Hopefully I can get sometime off this
or next month and personally see it. buttrock

Phoenix Down
09-07-2003, 12:48 AM
Nice videos, short but sweet.

Thanks!

Kaioh
09-07-2003, 12:55 AM
Thank you for the vids! Kinda silly they are calling it Samurai Shodown V, but it really doesn't matter since none of the Samurai Spirits uses numbers for sequels anyway.

toy_brain
09-07-2003, 01:06 AM
Hmm, looks OK.
It dosent look like being anything particularly amazing, just par for the course for a Sam Sho game.

Which is fair enough really.

kafuin_gaira
09-07-2003, 03:03 AM
thanks for the vids. i can't wait to get ahold of this game!

really want to see enja and suija (sp?) and of course, gaira, but i can wait :D

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: kafuin_gaira ]</small>

Kid Aphex
09-07-2003, 03:33 AM
Thanks very much for taking the time to take those vids---and upload them. Much appreciated <img src="http://www.neo-geo.com/ubb/icons/icon35.gif" alt=" - " />

supergoose
09-07-2003, 03:49 AM
thanks. :)

Loefye
09-07-2003, 04:03 AM
I wish that the backgrounds were not so reminiscent of past Samurai Spirits games, regardless the graphics still look nice. Let's just hope that the gameplay is nice as well...

Thanks alot for taking the time to get those video's for us, I appreciate it.

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: mikace01 ]</small>

RabbitTroop
09-07-2003, 04:12 AM
As someone who loved all the SS games, a rehash with some new characters and a few new backgrounds is still welcomed. Sure I would have loved a whole new game, but the backgrounds recycled are nice, and the new ones look pretty decent. The new characters look pretty cool too... Overall, I can't wait to check this one out myself. Wish I could get down to Golf Land, but I am in VA for a little while longer, so I won't be in LA again until next year... Ah well... it's all good.

-Nick

the_colonel
09-07-2003, 05:15 AM
Cool vids kiselgof, glad someone took the trouble to film it in motion.

Has anyone forgot that there are about 12_14 new character designs for the old & new together, (some new, some not) so having 12 new characters does not pass for a sequel, i think it does.

No one knows nothing about what all this game has to offer, but just because we get all the old characters as well as the other 12-14 every one can see the old characters as a mix of there bust & slash versions & nothing more.

Its like you would rather have the 12-14 new fighters & new designs & you will all love it then as its completely new, but snk/playmore/yuki went on to include all the other fighters too & then most don't like it. Having all the old cast is a privelidge, as they could of done another samurai shodown 3 & took out all the other fighters. Its better to have the rest of the cast there as apposed to not there at all.

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: the_colonel ]</small>

Takumaji
09-07-2003, 05:18 AM
Thanks for the vids, Mikhail.

Well, yes, graphically it looks a lot like Samsho 4, but the backs seem a bit, uhm, static to me, tho I like the parallax scrolling in some of them.

Are there any Shodown/Desperation screens as well? That's one thing I always loved in the series.

Jau... so far, so good.

the_colonel
09-07-2003, 05:42 AM
Observations...

-You loose sword power even if you slash the air.

-Tokugawa seems to use a big hitting attack on ukyo, which drains about 45% of his sword gauge, so its good to rush him whilst his power is low.

-Ukyo's far A+B looks like his ss3 version

-Naks new stance

-The new chinese character does a wired thrust hop back whilst on the floor for a bit, like there might be 2 more ways to get up from the ground, thrust hop to there feet forwards or backwords.

-The hop seems to be modified so you can hop in any direction instead of on the spot, i wonder if you can hop attack whilst you do the hop, if so, this games gonna be good strategy wise.

-Tokugawa's moves are badass, especially his uppercut attack & Big slice followed by different hitting direction alternate sword blasts.

-Resetsumarus anger gauge is lit up red (powered up), when he lets loose multiple attacks his sword gauge goes down abit obviously, but when his anger gauge runs out his sword gauge decreses perminantly to where it was building up from.

So its important to judge when you think the anger gauge will run out, as you don't want it to run out whilst its at the bottom quarter because you'll only have enough swings for about one strong, two medium or 3-5 light swings.

What happends when your sword gauge runs out i don't know, but if it stops you from doing any attacks at all, this game will be da bomb... it will finally teach people how to play this game properly & not to just keep pressing slash all day, yes! this game is hardcore & its style looks way different.

-DM's take away a chunk out of your sword gauge

-I think you can heal your sword meter (when a chunk has gone perminently for the round) by maxing out the anger gauge, your sword gauge will then heal back to normal. There must be a way to make the rage gauge go up then, maybe has something to do with the enlightenment gauge.

-kicks even take sword gauge energy

-What the little red dot means next to your name does i don't know, but it flashes yellow when you slash i think.

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: the_colonel ]</small>

John
09-07-2003, 06:32 AM
Well, it could be worse. They could have called the game "Samurai Shodown Alpha." :D

Seriously, even if it's just like other SS games, that's still more than most games can say. So... blah.

tsukaesugi
09-07-2003, 07:09 AM
the_colonel:
-I think you can heal your sword meter (when a chunk has gone perminently for the round) by maxing out the anger gauge, your sword gauge will then heal back to normal. There must be a way to make the rage gauge go up then, maybe has something to do with the enlightenment gauge.The sword meter, (or whatever it's called) goes up by itself really quickly. So quickly in fact I never saw it run out on anyone in the 3-4 hours I played/ watched the game.

The closest I saw it to running out was from three hard slashes from Ransetsumaru...

...but by that time the opponent was dead!

the_colonel
09-07-2003, 07:23 AM
Yeah, the SG does build fast, but nobody is using any real tactics to make them use attacks often, everyone must be getting hit pretty hard then, because don't forget that its also the power of your attacks to, so if one does a mediem slash but the sword is at full, it should be a powerful attack.

In video 5 someguy nearly eptied his SG but the stupid cpu was taking all the hits.

beelzebubble
09-07-2003, 07:23 AM
yeah the damage needs to be tweaked wouldnt you say.. i sware 4 tongue throws from kyoshiro left me with a few pixels frown

Electroman
09-07-2003, 09:15 AM
I have a few questions if you don't mind answering:

1.) Uh, where's the referee?
2.) How do the weapon meters work again? Why does the full-scale size change?
3.) What was the button layout?
4.) Were there random item drops (ie health, boms, etc)?

Thanks!

tsukaesugi
09-07-2003, 09:28 AM
Electroman:
I have a few questions if you don't mind answering:

1.) Uh, where's the referee?
2.) How do the weapon meters work again? Why does the full-scale size change?
3.) What was the button layout?
4.) Were there random item drops (ie health, boms, etc)?

Thanks! 1) Sadly, no ref. I miss him too.

2) Someone else is gonna hafta answer this one... I never saw a weapon meter run out. My guess is that you lose your weapon for awhile. Either that or you freeze and act stunned like the guard crush meter in SFA3.

3)(A) weak slash
(B) medium slash
(C) kick
(D) dodge/avoid
(A)+(B) strong slash

4) No pick ups of any sort

the_colonel
09-07-2003, 09:56 AM
1/. The refs the new boss of the game make_fac

2/. The more sword gauge you have the more damage your moves cause, the less there is the weaker your moves are. Its like a stamina gauge more than a sword gauge, as i don't think you can do moves if you don't have enough, i could be wrong though as knowone knows (well! someone does) what happends when its fully drained.

3/. A=weak slash, B=medium slash, A+B equals strong slash, C=kick, D=special button

4/. No

kernow
09-07-2003, 10:10 AM
no pick ups ? :(

I find that part of the strategy

"OMG A chicken!"

*diagonal roll forward onto said meat before opponent*

Kazuya_UK
09-07-2003, 10:33 AM
Thanks for the vids, the game really is looking better and better (to me at least), despite the rehashes. The new characters looks great - I heard something about Nobuhiro Watsuki (the Rurouni Kenshin guy) doing some of the new character designs - anyone know if this is true?

Kaz

OrochiEddie
09-07-2003, 10:58 AM
Cool vids. Biggest dissapointment is the mispelling of Victoly!! WTF is victory?

Big Shady
09-07-2003, 10:59 AM
Looks pretty cool, but all the character sprites look reused! Hanzo, Nakoruru looked reused from SS III/IV oh_no

It still looks like its gonna be kick ass though buttrock

Robert
09-07-2003, 11:06 AM
Don't tell me that you like this game!!!!!!
From a board where people find that SvC sucks, you should find this game unacceptable.
I see no evolution from the last SS. There is nothing exciting about this game.
How can you be happy with that?
Oh, sorry I have to wait a month for hearing people saying that this game sucks.. :rolleyes:

tsukaesugi
09-07-2003, 11:16 AM
Êtes-vous sérieux?

Sorry, it's hard to tell sarcasm on the Internet sometimes...

RabbitTroop
09-07-2003, 11:35 AM
I don't know what the problem is with this board. If you like something you are an idiot, if you hate something you are an idiot that is being to harsh. SvsC, mediocre... SS0, I have no idea. It screams of rehash, but, unlike SvsC (which is basically a rehash of KOF95) I really enjoyed all the SS games. There are a bunch of new characters, some good old backgrounds (it's lame, true, but atleast they are nice looking) and some newer ones that look iffy. So... Will it be good? I have no f'n clue, but I try not to bash any game until I've played it atleast a few times...

I think everyone likes to jump the gun here... "Oh you all hate the new games, or... give it a month and you'll hate it!" Well... yeah, that may be true. Sorry if a game isn't good, I am going to have to say so... I don't feel that we should keep silent, I mean we pay a TON of money for these games, more so than for games on any other system! So... they should be great right? Atleast as good as games of old from SNK... and if they aren't... then why are we buying them again? I mean there are tons of decent games out there, why should I pay $300 for a Neo one?

-Nick

BIG
09-07-2003, 12:01 PM
Well said,Nick.

I don't mind the rehash,really.

The new characters are more than make up for it.

As long as the game plays well,who am I to complain?

I'm just grateful that Playmore is still cranking out new titles for this old hardware when others would have quit years ago.

T'ill MS 5.....

J_Hendrix
09-07-2003, 12:03 PM
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying

kernow
09-07-2003, 12:08 PM
J_Hendrix:
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying Please, Please be quiet

FeelGood
09-07-2003, 12:54 PM
kernow:

J_Hendrix:
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying Please, Please be quiet He kind of has a point.

no change. Basically SSIV rehashed? That's SNKP's way of fucking the fans in the butt and then whipping out their dick to give us a brown mustache.

Because, really, only a fan-neuvo likes SSIV enought to play it instead of 1, 2, or 3.

SNKJorge
09-07-2003, 01:04 PM
EvilWasabi:

kernow:

J_Hendrix:
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying Please, Please be quiet Because, really, only a fan-neuvo likes SSIV enought to play it instead of 1, 2, or 3. Are you talking about JHendrix, Mr. Next Gen?
spock

FeelGood
09-07-2003, 01:10 PM
xtoo_short20x:

EvilWasabi:

kernow:

J_Hendrix:
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying Please, Please be quiet Because, really, only a fan-neuvo likes SSIV enought to play it instead of 1, 2, or 3. Are you talking about JHendrix, Mr. Next Gen?
spock No, just most fans that joined recently, within the past five years, are more impressed with SSIV than the other games. They are fan-neuvo. Not necessarily mainstreamers, but lacking in posterity, nonetheless.

Kid Aphex
09-07-2003, 01:11 PM
EvilWasabi:
No, just most fans that joined recently, within the past five years, are more impressed with SSIV than the other games. They are fan-neuvo. Not necessarily mainstreamers, but lacking in posterity, nonetheless. Nerd A-fucking-Lert

tsukaesugi
09-07-2003, 01:16 PM
*cough* nouveau *cough*

SNKJorge
09-07-2003, 01:20 PM
Nuevo

tsukaesugi
09-07-2003, 01:22 PM
That's the Spanish spelling?

Whoops! My bad.

*cough* sorrytooshortandEW *cough*

SNKJorge
09-07-2003, 01:25 PM
NOUVEAU

Loefye
09-07-2003, 01:29 PM
EvilWasabi:

xtoo_short20x:

EvilWasabi:

kernow:

J_Hendrix:
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying Please, Please be quiet Because, really, only a fan-neuvo likes SSIV enought to play it instead of 1, 2, or 3. Are you talking about JHendrix, Mr. Next Gen?
spock No, just most fans that joined recently, within the past five years, are more impressed with SSIV than the other games. They are fan-neuvo. Not necessarily mainstreamers, but lacking in posterity, nonetheless. I have just started playing the Neo-Geo in these last five years I so far my favorite Samurai Showdown game is SS3, followed closely by SS2. I like the art style and darker atmosphere that SS3 gives out. I also think that some of the character makeover's look awsome, such as Haohmaru's. The backgrounds in SS3 are the best in the series in my opinion. As far as visual's go SS3 has got it made. I am also one of the few that like the high damage hits of SS3, it doesn't bother me one bit. While I don't care about the Bust verions of characters, they don't annoy me like they do some people. I don't know what it is but somthing about SS3 makes me like it alot more then the other games in the series, it just seems alot more fun to play.

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: mikace01 ]</small>

FeelGood
09-07-2003, 01:32 PM
one word smacked my face upon watching these videos...REHASH!!!

man my favorite fucking series of all time crying crying

but maybe i'm being over critical. afterall SSIV was an inferior rehash of SSIII. i guess i just expected a shitload more after like a million fucking years (since the last SS was released).

sprites...reused until their ass turned raw.
background...reused until blisters formed then popped.
no victoly? no chicken? no referee? NO SHODOWN!

but then again we do get new characters right? we get that bnitch with a bow that looks weird and cool plus she has some cool little lego man that is prolly horny as hell running around with her. plus it's a new shodown u motherfuckers that's better than nothing i guess.

God damnit this game coulda been so cool... crying

Force
09-07-2003, 04:00 PM
It may be rehashed, but it still looks more interesting to me than SVC. I wonder if this will get an MVS caret release...

Matt

FeelGood
09-07-2003, 04:04 PM
xtoo_short20x:
NOUVEAU fuck you all in the ear I'm hungover.

Robert
09-07-2003, 04:10 PM
I can't understand how SS fans can be excited by such a game. I have SS1&2 and except for the background of the last video, there is nothing really better than these two games. Ok now there are combos, but I can live without combos in a fighting game (FFS is a proof). From what I have seen (this is not my last judgement on the game) I would prefer buying SS3 for 100$ than this game for 330$.

waku7
09-07-2003, 04:17 PM
The problem.
You are not a Samurai Shodown Fan.

Even if the game was totally crap, i would like to buy it..

SNKJorge
09-07-2003, 04:19 PM
waku7:
The problem.
You are not a Samurai Shodown Fan.

Even if the game was totally crap, i would like to buy it.. In the end, this is the way I feel too.

Big Shady
09-07-2003, 04:20 PM
robert:
I can't understand how SS fans can be excited by such a game. I have SS1&2 and except for the background of the last video, there is nothing really better than these two games. Ok now there are combos, but I can live without combos in a fighting game (FFS is a proof). From what I have seen (this is not my last judgement on the game) I would prefer buying SS3 for 100$ than this game for 330$. I consider myself a big SS fan and this game only has me mildly excited. I probably won't pay the $330 at release unless I play it and am totally blown away. The rehashed sprites for returning characters are a big downer for me, but the new characters do look pretty cool. Unless this SS game is uniquely, and VERY uniquely different, I cannot see fronting the big bucks at release.

Electroman
09-07-2003, 04:39 PM
I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?

MS4 is a rehash of MS 1-3.
MSX is a fixed version of MS2.

AOF3 is a superb version of AOF2, which was an improved version of AOF1.

LB2 is similar to LB1. Everyone has their pick of this series.

Most of the Street Fighter series were similar.
So boys, when it comes to SS 0/V WHEN THE FUCK IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? I'm sorry if I'm sounding like i'm dissing you guys but fuckin get over it men!

You guys could simply do the easy thing at this point and ask me to leave the forums for blowing my wad on why I think some of you are crybabies but hell I'm not crying. I'm fucking thrilled that a new SS installment is in the works. Jeeze every other SS game had similar characters before. I mean don't deny the idea that if SNKP changed all the original 8 characters into new sprites that its possible that you'd hate them too. "Oh, Hanzo looks like a fag", or "Genjuro looks nothing like he did in that other shit-ass game SVC," or "Nakoruru looks stupid now she's grown up".

If you don't like what SNKP is doing, write them a letter, ask for a petition and we will sign it for you, and send that letter to SNK Playmore or get the fuck out of the NEO community. I understand some bad opinions may come about but every redundant negative comment about every new release hurts.

God almighty, I sound like a fuckin preacher.

SNKJorge
09-07-2003, 04:41 PM
Electroman:
I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?

MS4 is a rehash of MS 1-3.
MSX is a fixed version of MS2.

AOF3 is a superb version of AOF2, which was an improved version of AOF1.

LB2 is similar to LB1. Everyone has their pick of this series.

Most of the Street Fighter series were similar.
So boys, when it comes to SS 0/V WHEN THE FUCK IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? I'm sorry if I'm sounding like i'm dissing you guys but fuckin get over it men!

You guys could simply do the easy thing at this point and ask me to leave the forums for blowing my wad on why I think some of you are crybabies but hell I'm not crying. I'm fucking thrilled that a new SS installment is in the works. Jeeze every other SS game had similar characters before. I mean don't deny the idea that if SNKP changed all the original 8 characters into new sprites that its possible that you'd hate them too. "Oh, Hanzo looks like a fag", or "Genjuro looks nothing like he did in that other shit-ass game SVC," or "Nakoruru looks stupid now she's grown up".

If you don't like what SNKP is doing, write them a letter, ask for a petition and we will sign it for you, and send that letter to SNK Playmore or get the fuck out of the NEO community. I understand some bad opinions may come about but every redundant negative comment about every new release hurts.

God almighty, I sound like a fuckin preacher. What some iced water with that?

Evil Wasabi
09-07-2003, 04:43 PM
I'm tired of people complaining.

I was actually GLAD to learn it had rehashed sprites, and GLAD that we'd have all the characters from SS4 (save Amakusa and Zankuro).
I like "upgrades" of games better than "totally new games" most of the time...

Like I prefered Fatal Fury Special over Fatal Fury 3, because FFS had more characters, and more "classic" characters (to me), and I was just used to it. I was disappointed to see some of the characters go and all.

But this WON'T be the case with this game, as it has almost all the characters from the previous one.

7 years after SS4, and almost no change, right ?
WHATEVER !
Just look how much 2D fighters have evolved from 1996 to today... Not much at all !
It's not like SNK "owes" us a totally new game, with loads of characters etc etc to be "worth" of year 2003. (or 2004, or whenever it gets released)

PLUS all the characters already looked GREAT in SS3/4, why would they need to REDO the sprites, since they were already close to perfection ?

I'm just really looking forward to this game, and am sick of people who keep saying how much they're disappointed, bla bla bla bla bla... ¬_¬

Just don't buy it or play it then, this way you'll be sure you're not wasting your time or money on it !
Bleh. Whiners.

That's it. :D

Evil Wasabi
09-07-2003, 04:45 PM
Oops, looks like Electroman beat me to it, I'm glad someone feels the way I do. :)

SeaWolf69
09-07-2003, 04:50 PM
WTF??

The videos don't work for me? I keep getting unathorized to see this site & it from <a href="http://www.snk-capcom.com???" target="_blank">www.snk-capcom.com???</a> annoyed crying help

Trap Gunner
09-07-2003, 04:53 PM
Electroman:
I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?

MS4 is a rehash of MS 1-3.
MSX is a fixed version of MS2.

AOF3 is a superb version of AOF2, which was an improved version of AOF1.

LB2 is similar to LB1. Everyone has their pick of this series.

Most of the Street Fighter series were similar.
So boys, when it comes to SS 0/V WHEN THE FUCK IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? I'm sorry if I'm sounding like i'm dissing you guys but fuckin get over it men!

You guys could simply do the easy thing at this point and ask me to leave the forums for blowing my wad on why I think some of you are crybabies but hell I'm not crying. I'm fucking thrilled that a new SS installment is in the works. Jeeze every other SS game had similar characters before. I mean don't deny the idea that if SNKP changed all the original 8 characters into new sprites that its possible that you'd hate them too. "Oh, Hanzo looks like a fag", or "Genjuro looks nothing like he did in that other shit-ass game SVC," or "Nakoruru looks stupid now she's grown up".

If you don't like what SNKP is doing, write them a letter, ask for a petition and we will sign it for you, and send that letter to SNK Playmore or get the fuck out of the NEO community. I understand some bad opinions may come about but every redundant negative comment about every new release hurts.

God almighty, I sound like a fuckin preacher. Exactly! The amount of negativity in almost every damm post is killing my NEO spirit. We all understand that we expected all the new releases to be perfect. But the fact of the matter is, this is not SNK. They are Playmore and they do things differently, much to our dismay.

Now, I am not attacking anyone for wanting more. It is all a matter of taste, wheter you like a game or not. We have to understand that we can't do nothing about it. Playmore is releasing these games in a certain manner. Now, it doesn't mean that we just settle with this. Let's do something constructive and send a giant e-mail to Playmore.

Evil Wasabi
09-07-2003, 04:55 PM
Sending an e-mail to Playmore ?
What for ?

To tell them stuff like "Make better games !" or even "Start Samurai Shodown Zero all over, I don't like way it currently looks like !"... ¬_¬

thegreathopper
09-07-2003, 04:58 PM
I for one do not want newly drawn sprites. I want all the characters I play to look exactly the same as 1-4 but have a few extra moves and some new back drops.If people want samurai shodown 0 to be different from 1-4 it will not be samurai shodown in my opinion.If people want something different why not buy some rubbish like soul calliber II a game with zero character..

Electroman
09-07-2003, 04:59 PM
xtoo_short20x:
What some iced water with that? At least I know I can count on you to offer me iced water instead of Bacardi 151 to put out the flames.

Trap Gunner
09-07-2003, 04:59 PM
Stifu:
Sending an e-mail to Playmore ?
What for ?

To tell them stuff like "Make better games !" or even "Start Samurai Shodown Zero all over, I don't like way it currently looks like !"... ¬_¬ I am just suggesting one idea. I know they probably would just delete it, without reading it. You just can't please every single person.

Evil Wasabi
09-07-2003, 05:01 PM
I know. It's like petitions, they all seem to end up being useless.
Unless PLAYMORE themselves do the petition and ask for our opinion.

SSS
09-07-2003, 05:16 PM
I, for one like the fact that the older sprites are back. If they can fix a few issues that existed in SS4, it will be worth the purchase. I will make my decision when I actually play the game.

the_colonel
09-07-2003, 05:44 PM
Hey! ss4 will cost me £150.00 pound or more, so all i need to do is pay an extra 70 pound & i get this newer version with nearly all the cast, cool.

Did anyone read my post on the first page about there are at least 12-14 new character designs for this game, thats more than sf3's new generation cast! & on top of that, we get all the old cast that have been tweaked up, maybe even more.

All i can say is this, people said that kof 99 was nothing different from 98, when i saw 99 it was at least 50% changed, possibly more.

Some people get to go to these beta tests & they report not much info to what i see in small vids, some people don't know whats new even if it hit them in the face, i hate that. They should hold the beta test in my house as i could report on everything.
Also instead of just trying to play a new game like ss0 (which you obviously can't as its too new), why don't some people just play 2 player & look at all the moves you can do in the game so you can actually see whats new & whats the same as before, then there's no arguing about it being a complete rehash or not as we would know lots of faq about the game instead of still knowing nothing like we all do now.

Galford Forever
09-07-2003, 05:56 PM
Electroman:
I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?

MS4 is a rehash of MS 1-3.
MSX is a fixed version of MS2.

AOF3 is a superb version of AOF2, which was an improved version of AOF1.

LB2 is similar to LB1. Everyone has their pick of this series.

Most of the Street Fighter series were similar.
So boys, when it comes to SS 0/V WHEN THE FUCK IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? I'm sorry if I'm sounding like i'm dissing you guys but fuckin get over it men!

You guys could simply do the easy thing at this point and ask me to leave the forums for blowing my wad on why I think some of you are crybabies but hell I'm not crying. I'm fucking thrilled that a new SS installment is in the works. Jeeze every other SS game had similar characters before. I mean don't deny the idea that if SNKP changed all the original 8 characters into new sprites that its possible that you'd hate them too. "Oh, Hanzo looks like a fag", or "Genjuro looks nothing like he did in that other shit-ass game SVC," or "Nakoruru looks stupid now she's grown up".

If you don't like what SNKP is doing, write them a letter, ask for a petition and we will sign it for you, and send that letter to SNK Playmore or get the fuck out of the NEO community. I understand some bad opinions may come about but every redundant negative comment about every new release hurts.

God almighty, I sound like a fuckin preacher. I have to disagree with you on the Shodowns a bit. SS3 and 4 have a different feel to them. The damage in SS3 is insane and feels quite different from any of the other Shodowns.

4 is similar to 2, but with a bit of 3 thrown in for good measure. It's also got some of its own style and originality.

2 and 1 are nothing alike, I think. 2 is much more polished, faster, and more technical. Especially with the ability to run and roll (in one move). That adds a whole new dynamic to the game that 1 didn't have and makes for a much faster, smoother flow (when playing at higher levels against friends). The hit detection also seems a bit better.

There's a lot of nuances that I couldn't really describe well, but I've played SS2 more than any other game ever, and I'm fairly experienced in all the other SSs, so the differences really stand out to me.

OrochiEddie
09-07-2003, 06:08 PM
I dont care about the sprite rehash since SS4's sprites were godly! They were some of the best I have ever seen so crisp, so clean, and so smooth. I see this as SS4+ and I couldn't be happier

Electroman
09-07-2003, 06:09 PM
Galford Forever:
I have to disagree with you on the Shodowns a bit. SS3 and 4 have a different feel to them. The damage in SS3 is insane and feels quite different from any of the other Shodowns.

4 is similar to 2, but with a bit of 3 thrown in for good measure. It's also got some of its own style and originality.

2 and 1 are nothing alike, I think. 2 is much more polished, faster, and more technical. Especially with the ability to run and roll (in one move). That adds a whole new dynamic to the game that 1 didn't have and makes for a much faster, smoother flow (when playing at higher levels against friends). The hit detection also seems a bit better.

There's a lot of nuances that I couldn't really describe well, but I've played SS2 more than any other game ever, and I'm fairly experienced in all the other SSs, so the differences really stand out to me. Hmm ok. Ok I was a bit angry. I've never had the pleasure of playing SS4.

I do like SS2 alot more than SS1, exactly why I sold my SS1 a while ago as SS2 is all the Samurai I need realizing that not many (but a good few people) like SS3, and even more like SS4.

If SS5 does in fact have a flavor of 2, with the gfx of 3, and the functionality of 4 and combos aplenty, who knows, maybe it'll be so good to buy. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Galford Forever
09-07-2003, 06:12 PM
Electroman:

Galford Forever:
I have to disagree with you on the Shodowns a bit. SS3 and 4 have a different feel to them. The damage in SS3 is insane and feels quite different from any of the other Shodowns.

4 is similar to 2, but with a bit of 3 thrown in for good measure. It's also got some of its own style and originality.

2 and 1 are nothing alike, I think. 2 is much more polished, faster, and more technical. Especially with the ability to run and roll (in one move). That adds a whole new dynamic to the game that 1 didn't have and makes for a much faster, smoother flow (when playing at higher levels against friends). The hit detection also seems a bit better.

There's a lot of nuances that I couldn't really describe well, but I've played SS2 more than any other game ever, and I'm fairly experienced in all the other SSs, so the differences really stand out to me. Hmm ok. Ok I was a bit angry. I've never had the pleasure of playing SS4.

I do like SS2 alot more than SS1, exactly why I sold my SS1 a while ago as SS2 is all the Samurai I need realizing that not many (but a good few people) like SS3, and even more like SS4.

If SS5 does in fact have a flavor of 2, with the gfx of 3, and the functionality of 4 and combos aplenty, who knows, maybe it'll be so good to buy. I guess we'll have to wait and see. No need to apologize :D . Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just stating mine.

Yeah, once you own SS2, you really don't need anything else. The rest of the shodowns are just gravy, which is how I'm treating zero. I'll buy it, but nothing will take the place of 2. Ever. SS1 is great too though, but 2 is so much more fun to play against human opponents.

beelzebubble
09-07-2003, 06:19 PM
ss4 all the way :D (soggy right ew?)

this game looks good to me... i never pay 300+ for any game... thats just me though...150 for rb2 thats my limit...

mind you i spend like $10 a day in the arcades so in the long run costs me way more than 300..

FeelGood
09-07-2003, 06:20 PM
i just wish they released SS2 with every character ever to appear in SS and that horny little LEGO guy as the referee. i would pay prolly 2-7 thousand for that game.

SiegfriedFM
09-07-2003, 06:20 PM
As a new Neo gamer, games like this are perfect. I've bought the few old games that aren't stupidly expensive and that I want to play. Now, instead of paying lots of dollars for Samurai Shodown 4, Garou, Metal Slug or King of Fighters 2000 (not to mention semi-decent games like Ninja Masters, Kabuki Klash and Kizuna Encounter), I can get Samurai Shodown 0, Matrimelee, Metal Slug 5 or SNK vs Capcom and a) get a brand new game that I haven't already been able to emulate or play ports of, and b) know that the money goes straight to SNK.

SNK makes $0 on any sold copy of SS4 today, and I'd get the same old cast I can play on my Saturn if I want to. SNK makes, what?, $200 on SS5 and I get the same cast minus Amakusa and Zankuro (good riddance!) plus an entire new cast. So what if it reuses SS4 sprites? There isn't much reason to buy SS4 anymore anyway.

Spike Spiegel
09-07-2003, 07:39 PM
While I love Samurai Shodown, I'm not sure that this new version is different enough for me to go "oh boy."

I never thought I'd say this, but it looks like it's time for new hardware.

Spike

Galford Forever
09-07-2003, 07:43 PM
Spike Spiegel:
While I love Samurai Shodown, I'm not sure that this new version is different enough for me to go "oh boy."

I never thought I'd say this, but it looks like it's time for new hardware.

Spike Certainly is starting to seem that way.

Deuce
09-07-2003, 07:50 PM
Galford Forever:

Spike Spiegel:
I never thought I'd say this, but it looks like it's time for new hardware.Certainly is starting to seem that way. Careful, guys. Talk like that can get the Neo-Nazis on your ass in no time flat. ;P

-Deuce

JHendrix
09-07-2003, 08:01 PM
Deuce:

Galford Forever:

Spike Spiegel:
I never thought I'd say this, but it looks like it's time for new hardware.Certainly is starting to seem that way. Careful, guys. Talk like that can get the Neo-Nazis on your ass in no time flat. ;P

-Deuce Tell me about it... wink

Anyway, I'm praying right now that they don't stick with tradition and actually put in a "Vs." mode for the AES version. That's one thing that always got on my nerves with SS games, no damn VS. mode.

Big Shady
09-07-2003, 08:40 PM
Electroman:
I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?

MS4 is a rehash of MS 1-3.
MSX is a fixed version of MS2.

AOF3 is a superb version of AOF2, which was an improved version of AOF1.

LB2 is similar to LB1. Everyone has their pick of this series.

Most of the Street Fighter series were similar.
So boys, when it comes to SS 0/V WHEN THE FUCK IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? I'm sorry if I'm sounding like i'm dissing you guys but fuckin get over it men!

You guys could simply do the easy thing at this point and ask me to leave the forums for blowing my wad on why I think some of you are crybabies but hell I'm not crying. I'm fucking thrilled that a new SS installment is in the works. Jeeze every other SS game had similar characters before. I mean don't deny the idea that if SNKP changed all the original 8 characters into new sprites that its possible that you'd hate them too. "Oh, Hanzo looks like a fag", or "Genjuro looks nothing like he did in that other shit-ass game SVC," or "Nakoruru looks stupid now she's grown up".

If you don't like what SNKP is doing, write them a letter, ask for a petition and we will sign it for you, and send that letter to SNK Playmore or get the fuck out of the NEO community. I understand some bad opinions may come about but every redundant negative comment about every new release hurts.

God almighty, I sound like a fuckin preacher. Well put Electroman. SS2 is like a rehash of SS1 visually, but the gameplay is leaps and bounds improved. I can only make judgement from the videos I've seen and until I actually get some play time can I, or any of us for that matter, make a concrete opinion. Maybe we will be lucky and SS0 will be SS3 with god like gameplay of SS2 or perhaps greater.

Excellent post btw :)

EDIT: I also find it quite comical that Neo fans are probably the only gamer fan base in the world that can make good/great games sound bad make_fac Our expectations are so high and our analysis are so critical is quite a hoot. I'm guilty of it, I admit, but sometimes you just gotta sit back and enjoy the excellent gaming goodness that the 13 year old Neo Geo puts out. Its quite a feat.

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Big Shady ]</small>

John
09-07-2003, 08:49 PM
EvilWasabi:

kernow:

J_Hendrix:
I fucking hate this game! Really, you should hate this game too, why? No major change after 7 fucking years. They could spend something awesome about this game but no, no character update (ok, at least few new animation and new fighters but thats it) not much new backgrounds, stupid plot text like KO, ROUND 1 etc. Are they afraid to make a BIG TEXT OF KO!!!!!!!!stupid victoly, they ruined this game, stupid last boss, no zankuro (zankuro is badass).
Damn, SNKs best game serie turns into a donkey ass, WHY SNK!!!! WHY!!!! crying Please, Please be quiet He kind of has a point.

no change. Basically SSIV rehashed? That's SNKP's way of fucking the fans in the butt and then whipping out their dick to give us a brown mustache.

Because, really, only a fan-neuvo likes SSIV enought to play it instead of 1, 2, or 3. On his head... spock

And it's so fashionable to bash SSIV. III only had 12 characters, the Shura and Rasetsu modes seemed half-assed, and the ABC charge made is more like DBZ than an SS game.

I could almost see the whole CD-AABBCCABCCCCC combo filling up the POW gauge--you get all pumped after going into a frenzy. But the whole charging up seems too much like KOF. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself. But this isn't KOF we're talking about... it's SS.

And I actually played every MVS/NGH SS game... I even have a boxed SSII (or SSS if you prefer). I remember SS from the early '90s in Wildwood. It wowed me. Not quite "floored"--NOTHING MOVES THE BLOB~!--but still wowed. Hell, I even have the two GB games (both the port of the first and the port of the third), so I'm not just some fly-by-night SS fan.

Frankly, I probably will get this game--just to see how it is. I'm sort of hopeful because they're fleshing out the Rasetsu versions of Haohmaru, the Kazama brothers, and Nakoruru.

And as I said, it's still Samurai Shodown. And that's a lot more than can be said of other games.

Genocide Tweeter
09-07-2003, 10:08 PM
I agree with Electroman, my "good buddy" Stifu, and whoever else agrees with them.
oh_no

cLo
09-07-2003, 10:31 PM
Rehashed graphics or not, I'm going to get this game. I love the Sam Sho series with a passion and I love the new backgrounds and characters they've added to SamS Sho 0. If they want to use the same graphics and pixels, let them. If the game is just as fun to play as the others, that's good enough for me.

Just my two cents.

UnCauzi
09-08-2003, 07:41 AM
xtoo_short20x:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Electroman:
[qb] I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?
Seiger, Cham Cham, Nicotine, Genjuro, reformatted Wan Fu. New fighting mechanics and new backgrounds (could care less about this) music...wait....

If they made a rehash of SS2 with new characters I'd be in heaven. Why 4?

FeelGood
09-08-2003, 08:14 AM
Electroman:
I'm very disappointed with many of you, take it for what its worth.

SS4 was a rehash of SS3 right?
SS2 was like SS1 with 4 more characters, better graphics, and a couple messed up music tracks(Galford and Earthquake's music in SS2 &lt; SS1)right?

MS4 is a rehash of MS 1-3.
MSX is a fixed version of MS2.
SSIV is not a rehash of SSIII. SSIV took SSIII, stretched the character sprites, dropped the color depth on BGs, altered the control, gave an extra power bar and increased the damage dealt, added the ever so popular CD combo system (which isn't a real gripe as much as a rinky dink gimmick that I use often, but don't really love). I remember being really excited about SSIV, and playing the hell out of it when it came out. But some of my friends completely shunned it. They stuck to SSIII. After a while, it sunk in. SSIV plays like shit. The only good thing about it is the fact it has endings like from SSII.

Now, to move forward, saying that SSII is a rehash of SSI - please - don't make yourself look like an idiot so quickly. The sprites from SSI to SSII are all different - cleaner, better. Not stretched out, because look, they have more detail than the sprites in SSIV. :rolleyes: plus, the music is more fleshed out, has more color. The dropping of the bonus stage in order to focus more on the seriousness of the fighting. They dropped the intros where characters jumped in and talked shit in SSI (much better done in SSI than SSII, due to probably a better writer - I can't get Kyoshiro's "your silly spat head" out of my head.). Even the attitude is different. You cannot argue against SSII being more serious and dark than SSI. Just read the end quotes. SSI is often silly. I'm not saying SSI is worse than SSII, although I prefer to play SSII usually, but they are not the same game, only rehashed. A rehash does not entail the level of work than SSII had.

Magnaflux
09-08-2003, 08:24 AM
People who say ss4 is a rehash of 3 should seriously re-examine both games as saying this really makes you look un-informed.

SonGohan
09-08-2003, 08:27 AM
Nice to see EW chime in and say what's needed to be said.

kernow
09-08-2003, 08:32 AM
so, how does a software company make a sequel and not a rehash.. succesfully?

you've got to include, say 30% of the last game, for it to be 'related'.

*shuts up, as he doesn't know where he was going with this*

SonGohan
09-08-2003, 08:35 AM
kernow:
so, how does a software company make a sequel and not a rehash.. succesfully?

you've got to include, say 30% of the last game, for it to be 'related'.

*shuts up, as he doesn't know where he was going with this* Hmmmm.. Well, I'm watching my Beverly Hills Cop 2 dvd, and watching some of the interviews with the producers and such. One of the guys said something along the lines of "when you make a sequel, you have to bring people the same movie and keep it different. You have to bring the same atmosphere and characters that they loved in the first, but at the same time keep the story and action a little different".

Sure, it's a movie, but I feel it applies a little bit to games in general. Bring us the same game where it can entertain us differently.

JHendrix
09-08-2003, 09:23 AM
kernow:
so, how does a software company make a sequel and not a rehash.. succesfully?

you've got to include, say 30% of the last game, for it to be 'related'.

*shuts up, as he doesn't know where he was going with this* Easy example: Garou: Mark of the Wolves
Easy example #2: Street Fighter 3: New Generation

kernow
09-08-2003, 09:24 AM
!

dang

JHendrix
09-08-2003, 09:36 AM
kernow:
!

dang Heh, thing is sometimes "point release" sequels are the best things ever, where they take a near solid game and add something that on paper looks minor but actually perfects the game.

Third Strike over Second Impact over New Generation.
FFS over FF2.
MSX over MS2.
SSF2T over SSF2 over SF2T over SF2:CE over SF2. wink
And at least in my opinion: RB2 over RBS.

Of course living in hindsight if you've never experienced the games before it makes life simple where you only have to get the "latest version" of the game to experience it in its best form. Sure you don't appreciate the same way as someone who "lived through" the upgrade process, but it does make things a bit easier (and cheaper) none the less.

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: JHendrix ]</small>

Evil Wasabi
09-08-2003, 10:19 AM
I do think RB2 is better than RBS.
The only thing I'm annoyed about is that they took out the character battle intros and they have no win poses at each round, only at the last one.
That certainly doesn't affect gameplay though, but it was a nice touch still.

SS2 IS a rehash of SS1 by the way.
The sprites may look better etc, but in SS2, they ARE taken from SS1, although edited and all.

Whereas in SS3, they've completely been redone.

Also, I can't understand how someone who loves SS3 can hate SS4. Looks like it's cool to do so, to act like you know what's good, like "the last game is not the best one, bla bla bla".
Background and musics may be better in SS3, and the air guard is gone in SS4... But I'd rather have 5 new characters than what I just mentioned before.

I think Samurai Shodown Zero will be great.
They *could* have made some of the old characters return, like Gen An for instance, for nostalgy's sake and all, but it's okay they did not.

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

JHendrix
09-08-2003, 10:28 AM
Stifu:
I do think RB2 is better than RBS.
The only thing I'm annoyed about is that they took out the character battle intros and they have no win poses at each round, only at the last one.
That certainly doesn't affect gameplay though, but it was a nice touch still.

SS2 IS a rehash of SS1 by the way.
The sprites may look better etc, but in SS2, they ARE taken from SS1, although edited and all.

Whereas in SS3, they've completely been redone.

Also, I can't understand how someone who loves SS3 can hate SS4. Looks like it's cool to do so, to act like you know what's good, like "the last game is not the best one, bla bla bla".
Background and musics may be better in SS3, and the air guard is gone in SS4... But I'd rather have 5 new characters than what I just mentioned before.

I think Samurai Shodown Zero will be great.
They *could* have made some of the old characters return, like Gen An for instance, for nostalgy's sake and all, but it's okay they did not. Heh, well that's specifically why I said IMO before saying RB2 &gt; RBS.

I'm one of those people who can give two shits about "special win poses or intro's" for a fighter, I just like RB2 more because of Rick, Xiangfei, and the increase in speed. That and it feels less reliant on the plain switch system which I HATE.

As for SS0, it sounds like they added quite a bit to the gameplay system and there are many changes from SS4 which can be both a good and a bad thing depending on how it's implamented.

Right now it looks promising, and while they did re-use sprites the SS sprites in 3 and 4 are some of the best on the Neo anyway so I'm not complaining much.

VanillaThunder
09-08-2003, 10:35 AM
I don't get some of you people.

Ok, I'm not going to wag my finger at anyone and tell you what to like... but seriously.. you should be happy getting titles at all, much less QUALITY titles released on homecart.

How can you call it a rehash when 99% of you never played it or saw it? You're going on second and third hand info and fuzzy screenshots and 11 second movies.

It's easy to discount the new releases before they're out and tell us how good the "old days" were, but things are always better when remembered instead of experienced.

Jeez, just let them release a title, play it, then judge... but slagging them off for the sake of "it's not SS2..." is childish.

Besides all of that, a "rehash" of a GREAT Fighting series is better than most of the shit arcade games getting released nowadays that actually get over here.

I don't hear anyone clamoring for another horse racing sim, much less a dance game or gun game.

It looks on paper that the system is going to be changed signifigantly, so that's not rehashed.. you're getting new characters and backgrounds.... and you're getting sprite updates. Short of moving to new hardware, that's about all you're going to get. (Which is fine by me.)

There's only so far you can stretch the hardware until it can't take anymore. It's funny that the same people bitching about rehashes are the same ones bitching about a format change. Hell, you didn't like the "new" games... (ROTD, Matrimelee), you don't like the "old" games... Your choices are this...

Take the new titles, accept that you're stuck on the MVS hardware and enjoy the new gameplay systems and sprites that get produced and be grateful that you're getting new and old titles.

Wait for a hardware change, admire the new sprites and all of your graphics changes and play what will most likely be the same fundamental gameplay with better graphics and more new "stuff" to play with.

I'm not leaning towards either side, but I'm convinced most people wouldn't be happy no matter what SNKP do.

What the hell are you doing around here other than pining for the past? Stop looking at the new titles.

*whew!*

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: VanillaThunder ]</small>

Chicago Cheeseburgler Crew
09-08-2003, 10:45 AM
Stifu:
PLUS all the characters already looked GREAT in SS3/4, why would they need to REDO the sprites, since they were already close to perfection

kernow
09-08-2003, 12:05 PM
VanillaThunder:
I don't get some of you people.

Ok, I'm not going to wag my finger at anyone and tell you what to like... but seriously.. you should be happy getting titles at all, much less QUALITY titles released on homecart.

spock

Tempest
09-08-2003, 12:47 PM
I don't suppose you got a look inside the cabinet did you? I'm curious if it's an "MVS Board" or a real MVS cart. Most likely it's the new board style, but I can dream...

Tempest

FeelGood
09-08-2003, 01:54 PM
Stifu:
SS2 IS a rehash of SS1 by the way.
The sprites may look better etc, but in SS2, they ARE taken from SS1, although edited and all.

Whereas in SS3, they've completely been redone.
Wanfu is just a weapon edit, right?


Stifu:
Also, I can't understand how someone who loves SS3 can hate SS4. Looks like it's cool to do so, to act like you know what's good, like "the last game is not the best one, bla bla bla".
Background and musics may be better in SS3, and the air guard is gone in SS4... But I'd rather have 5 new characters than what I just mentioned before.
You also lost a shitload of moves. Take Galford for example - or better Ukyo. Check out how much different Hanzo is. They all lost a lot of functionality and got back NOTHING. Except Galford who got a plasma spark after losing his plasma blade, but you have to admit that was the worst tradeoff. There are so many combos completely lost from SSIII - all replaced with the CD combo system? Why???

So, please. Try not to sound like such a retard next time.

It's not simply cool to dislike SSIV. There's a lot of things to dislike about SSIV after playing SSIII. Like I said, those that like SSIV a lot are typically fan nouveau.

Evil Wasabi
09-08-2003, 02:01 PM
Your post seemed okay until you called me a retard.
Looks like low IQ'd people need to insult others to feel better. ¬_¬

Not that what I just said was an insult in itself, but going like "If you don't think like me then you sound like a retard" is just uncalled for.
You could explain yourself and stay in line.

Anywaaaaaay, despite those move changes, I still prefer Samurai Shodown 4. And I could care less about Galford, I don't use him.

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

FeelGood
09-08-2003, 02:09 PM
Stifu:
Your post seemed okay until you called me a retard.
Looks like low IQ'd people need to insult others to feel better. ¬_¬
Sorry I hurt your feelings. Maybe I can send you a lollypop and make you feel better, kiddo.

Evil Wasabi
09-08-2003, 02:13 PM
Hilarious.

Anyway this debate was going nice until you came to this. And call me a kid, my guess is I'm older than you.

Looks like the internet boosts your self confidence, huh ?
Bleh.

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

Kid Aphex
09-08-2003, 02:19 PM
Stifu:

And call me a kid, my guess is I'm older than you.

My guess is you probly aren't....

Evil Wasabi
09-08-2003, 02:24 PM
If that's the case, that would just be an evidence that age and maturity are 2 different things...

(If I keep editing my messages, it's just to correct my English...)

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

UnCauzi
09-08-2003, 05:10 PM
EvilWasabi:

Stifu:
SS2 IS a rehash of SS1 by the way.
The sprites may look better etc, but in SS2, they ARE taken from SS1, although edited and all.

Whereas in SS3, they've completely been redone.
Wanfu is just a weapon edit, right?


Stifu:
Also, I can't understand how someone who loves SS3 can hate SS4. Looks like it's cool to do so, to act like you know what's good, like "the last game is not the best one, bla bla bla".
Background and musics may be better in SS3, and the air guard is gone in SS4... But I'd rather have 5 new characters than what I just mentioned before.
You also lost a shitload of moves. Take Galford for example - or better Ukyo. Check out how much different Hanzo is. They all lost a lot of functionality and got back NOTHING. Except Galford who got a plasma spark after losing his plasma blade, but you have to admit that was the worst tradeoff. There are so many combos completely lost from SSIII - all replaced with the CD combo system? Why???

So, please. Try not to sound like such a retard next time.

It's not simply cool to dislike SSIV. There's a lot of things to dislike about SSIV after playing SSIII. Like I said, those that like SSIV a lot are typically fan nouveau. The CD combo system is was put in simply to satisfy combo freaks who liked seeing 15 hit combos ala the versus series and other fighters. It was a "dumbing down" of the game really.

CD combo = infinite, or free rage bar. Yippie, dumb down indeed.

Although I'm not the biggest fan of 3. I'll take it over 4 anyday. 4 = riddled with overpowered characters, infinites, and other bogus crap that appeals to the new generation of spamfest gamers.

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 08:29 AM
Let's hope Samurai Shodown Zero pleases all SS fans then.

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 08:39 AM
Stifu:
Your post seemed okay until you called me a retard.
He didn't call you a retard, he simply said 'try not to sound like such a retard next time'. Funny, because you dismissed all the points he made regarding SS1 to SS2 and SS3 to SS4, and just went on a huge tirade about how he's immature for something you took completely out of context if for the only reason that you now know that your argument holds no water. Good, you like SS4 more, but address the other points in the argument other than running with your tail between your legs.

kthx

Electroman
09-09-2003, 08:48 AM
EvilWasabi:
SSIV is not a rehash of SSIII. SSIV took SSIII, stretched the character sprites, dropped the color depth on BGs, altered the control, gave an extra power bar and increased the damage dealt, added the ever so popular CD combo system (which isn't a real gripe as much as a rinky dink gimmick that I use often, but don't really love). I remember being really excited about SSIV, and playing the hell out of it when it came out. But some of my friends completely shunned it. They stuck to SSIII. After a while, it sunk in. SSIV plays like shit. The only good thing about it is the fact it has endings like from SSII.

Now, to move forward, saying that SSII is a rehash of SSI - please - don't make yourself look like an idiot so quickly. The sprites from SSI to SSII are all different - cleaner, better. Not stretched out, because look, they have more detail than the sprites in SSIV. :rolleyes: plus, the music is more fleshed out, has more color. The dropping of the bonus stage in order to focus more on the seriousness of the fighting. They dropped the intros where characters jumped in and talked shit in SSI (much better done in SSI than SSII, due to probably a better writer - I can't get Kyoshiro's "your silly spat head" out of my head.). Even the attitude is different. You cannot argue against SSII being more serious and dark than SSI. Just read the end quotes. SSI is often silly. I'm not saying SSI is worse than SSII, although I prefer to play SSII usually, but they are not the same game, only rehashed. A rehash does not entail the level of work than SSII had. Sorry EW and everybody... I made myself look like an idtiot. when it comes to SS3 and SS4, i'm ignorant.

SS1 comical? I disagree. But I will say that SS2 seems more serious.

And you know, I grew to really like the A,B,AB C,D,CD button scheme found in 1 and 2 but playing so much of last blade lately I actually prefer A, B = punches and C = kick, D=repel. I'm happy they will use that button layout with SS0.

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 08:52 AM
"He didn't call you a retard, he simply said 'try not to sound like such a retard next time'."

Let's not play on words.
The point is that he meant to insult me.

"Funny, because you dismissed all the points he made regarding SS1 to SS2 and SS3 to SS4, and just went on a huge tirade about how he's immature for something you took completely out of context if for the only reason that you now know that your argument holds no water."

Before debating about anything, it is better to be in good terms with the person you're talking to. If that person doesn't respect you enough to stay nice, then discussing is pointless. Just my way of seeing things.
You could say things like that's a lame excuse to hide the fact I have nothing to say in return... Whatever you think.

"Good, you like SS4 more, but address the other points in the argument other than running with your tail between your legs."

I'm not. ¬_¬
You too are being arrogant on this one, but I'll pass.
If you really want me to discuss about some points I didn't mention or something, let me know. Although I really don't feel much like discussing with people like that.

On the other hand, UnCauzi explained his point of view nicely, without having to bash me at the same time because of some disagreement he has with me.

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 09:03 AM
Stifu:
Let's not play on words.
The point is that he meant to insult me.
Trust me, if you think that's an insult, you haven't seen EW flame somebody. Grow a thicker skin.


Stifu:
Before debating about anything, it is better to be in good terms with the person you're talking to. If that person doesn't respect you enough to stay nice, then discussing is pointless. Just my way of seeing things.
You could say things like that's a lame excuse to hide the fact I have nothing to say in return... Whatever you think.
This isn't true. You don't have to be on good terms with anybody to argue with them. In fact, 98% of arguments that take place are people who aren't on good terms with each other. Instead of crying about his use of the word 'retard', how about you back your points up instead of running away. It's too easy, especially if your argument holds no water, to just say "well I'm not gonna talk about this more 'cause you don't respect me". It takes bigger balls to step up to the plate and say something such as "why do I sound like a retard? (insert facts to back up statement)". You're get more respect than just trying to bow out of it cause 'he's a meanie'.


Stifu:
I'm not. ¬_¬
You too are being arrogant on this one, but I'll pass.
If you really want me to discuss about some points I didn't mention or something, let me know. Although I really don't feel much like discussing with people like that.
How am I being arrogant? This is exactly what you're doing. In fact, you would rather argue minor details of the argument that actually have nothing to do with the argument itself. Shows that you would rather argue about your excuse for not having an argument rather than stick with the initial one in the first place. Do we really need arguments to multiply like rabbits? Happens way too frequently on this board and it's too easy to substitute one for the other.


Stifu:
On the other hand, UnCauzi explained his point of view nicely, without having to bash me at the same time because of some disagreement he has with me. Do you want to give him a medal? Really. This is how the world works, you have to learn to deal with different kinds of people instead of taking the 'I'm taking my marbles and I'm going home' type of attitude. How old are you?

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 09:31 AM
"Trust me, if you think that's an insult, you haven't seen EW flame somebody. Grow a thicker skin."

I see. I should accept it because it's HIM, and he has the right to do so because he often does it.
Bleh.

"This isn't true. You don't have to be on good terms with anybody to argue with them. In fact, 98% of arguments that take place are people who aren't on good terms with each other.(...)"

You need to learn the difference between "debating" and "arguing". I'm not here to argue with people.

"How am I being arrogant? (...) Happens way too frequently on this board and it's too easy to substitute one for the other."

It may be frequent here, I wouldn't know, I don't visit that forum much.
nd it's not about "minor details" really, the two of us were not talking about SS to each other, so I can't really answer to anything since you didn't say anything. ¬_¬

Back on topic anyway.
To make it short... People were bashing SS4 and hailing SS3, without backing up what they were saying. I was wondering why, and mentioned what I thought were their main complaints about SS4... But it seems there were other things I didn't know of.
Actually, I've been playing SS1, SS2, then SS4... Then went back to SS3. And didn't really notice that much of a "step down" or something from 3 to 4. But it might not have been the case if I had played and got used to SS3 first.
Anyway, I currently prefer SS4 over SS3, and hopefully I'll prefer SS Zero over those 2.

PS: I don't see why you'd want to know my age, but I've got nothing to hide, I'm 19.

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 10:07 AM
Stifu:
I see. I should accept it because it's HIM, and he has the right to do so because he often does it.
Bleh.
Where did I say he often flames people? You're now putting words in my mouth. Try not to do this from now on, mmm'kay? My whole point was he was not flaming you, and if you thought that was a flame, you're seriously mistaken, and need to grow a thicker skin if you're going to be offended by something like off-comment such as that.


Stifu:
You need to learn the difference between "debating" and "arguing". I'm not here to argue with people.
So we (read: you) are clear on the differences, let's take the definition as seen on <a href="http://www.dictionary.com:" target="_blank">www.dictionary.com:</a>

ar·gue ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy)
v. ar·gued, ar·gu·ing, ar·gues
v. tr.
To put forth reasons for or against; debate:

Now who's playing with words?


Stifu:
It may be frequent here, I wouldn't know, I don't visit that forum much.
nd it's not about "minor details" really, the two of us were not talking about SS to each other, so I can't really answer to anything since you didn't say anything. ¬_¬
So your ignorance of the fact that it does happen here excuses you from being apart of the problem? That's a lame copout. Also, you were talking SS, in fact EW made a whole post regarding your SS1/SS2 and SS3/SS4 statements, the one that asked you not to sound retarded, in which that was the only thing you replied to and totally neglected the actual discussion of SS.


Stifu:
Anyway, I currently prefer SS4 over SS3, and hopefully I'll prefer SS Zero over those 2.
I could care less, really. I used to like SS4 over SS3 until I actually really put some time into both games, but opinions are opinions, I'm not here to argue them. The single statement that most caught my attention was you saying SS2 was a rehash of SS1, and I'm still waiting for facts to back up your statement, because that wasn't an opinionated statement. Give specific examples, which character, what frames, what parts of the gaming engine and/or music/gfx/sfx is a rehash of SS1.


Stifu:
PS: I don't see why you'd want to know my age, but I've got nothing to hide, I'm 19. Age has everything to do with everything.

SSS
09-09-2003, 10:16 AM
Well, SS4 is the only fighting game I can think of that has the same button execution for "super moves" (whatever you want to call them) for every character. SNK practically used the same button execution for the "honorable" deaths as well. That to me sounds like pure laziness. Sure the Kazama brothers are a great addition, but they should have toned down Sogetsu.

Don't get me wrong, I still think 4 is a great game. But compared to SS3 it just seems like Team "Garapagos" either rushed it out the door, or just put in a half-hearted effort.

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 10:25 AM
I won't take the time to answer to all of that, I'd be wasting my time.
About arguing / debating, I just mean arguing is often attached to a negative connotation, not debating.
Let's skip the trash and go directly to the point: Samurai Shodown 1 and 2.

"Give specific examples, which character, what frames, what parts of the gaming engine and/or music/gfx/sfx is a rehash of SS1."

Here's an evidence that some sprites in SS2 have been directly taken from SS1:

<a href="http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss1.jpg" target="_blank">http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss2.jpg" target="_blank">http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss2.jpg</a>

You wanted it, you got it.
Thanks for your time.

"Age has everything to do with everything."

Oh, you REALLY made a point by saying this, really. ¬_¬

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 10:41 AM
Stifu:
I won't take the time to answer to all of that, I'd be wasting my time.
As if you didn't 'waste your time' arguing about your lack of fact presentation in your arguments.


Stifu:
About arguing / debating, I just mean arguing is often attached to a negative connotation, not debating.
Whatever, that's just your misconception, facts are facts and I gave you a nice little definition. There's really no need to talk about this further because you tried to tell me I was the one that needed to be educated on their meanings. Thx.


Stifu:
Here's an evidence that some sprites in SS2 have been directly taken from SS1:

<a href="http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss1.jpg" target="_blank">http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss2.jpg" target="_blank">http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss2.jpg</a>

You wanted it, you got it.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for my time? You gave me two screenshots of Haohmaru that wasn't even an exact rip of the other. I said give me specific examples, and use these examples to justify your comment that SS2 is a rehash of SS1. If the best you can do is show me a frame of Haohmaru that's been improved on in SS2, then you really aren't providing a solid ground for your statement.

A closer analogy of rehashing a game would be SF2 to SF2:CE. How on earth you can get SS2 as being a rehash of SS1 is just crazy. What? You see 3 frames that were from the first game and you come to this conclusion? Please.


Stifu:
"Age has everything to do with everything."

Oh, you REALLY made a point by saying this, really. ¬_¬ If I have to explain it to you, you're worse off than I thought. One's maturity, as well as how they handle themselves and other people relates to one's age. Younger people's brains aren't fully developed and can say some pretty outlandish things (take my 10 year old nephew for example). How you've handled yourself, as well as the other people in this thread made other people (besides myself) question your age.

So there, I explained it for you and it should be easy for you to grasp why it was said. Really. ¬_¬

SSS
09-09-2003, 10:42 AM
Stifu:
I won't take the time to answer to all of that, I'd be wasting my time.
About arguing / debating, I just mean arguing is often attached to a negative connotation, not debating.
Let's skip the trash and go directly to the point: Samurai Shodown 1 and 2.

"Give specific examples, which character, what frames, what parts of the gaming engine and/or music/gfx/sfx is a rehash of SS1."

Here's an evidence that some sprites in SS2 have been directly taken from SS1:

<a href="http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss1.jpg" target="_blank">http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss2.jpg" target="_blank">http://stifu.free.fr/Pics/ss2.jpg</a>

You wanted it, you got it.
Thanks for your time.

"Age has everything to do with everything."

Oh, you REALLY made a point by saying this, really. ¬_¬ Ugh, of course some certain frames of animation were retained. But you have to be blind if you are going to tell me Haohmaru from SS1 is EXACTLY the same as his SS2 counterpart. His sprite received a major overhaul. Just look at his fighting stance, backward and forward movement is more fluid, etc...

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 10:45 AM
I didn't say nothing had been changed.

I'm aware characters look overall better in SS2.
But the fact is that they've not completely been redone, they're edits of the original sprites, some frames have been redone and stuff, but some have been kept as is.

He told me to show him any frame in SS2 that is also in SS1. That's it.

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 10:47 AM
I said give me specific examples, not give me any frame. You still haven't proven your statement that SS2 is a rehash of SS1. Do you really have anything to back up what you said, or was your comment just a bs line to throw in the thread for shits?

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 10:55 AM
Both Haomaru sprites are EXACTLY the same, apart from color changes. Not even ONE pixel changed.
Do you see that kind of things between SF1 and SF2 ? Can you see ANY sprite reused in SF2 ? No, you can't.
But of course, the screens I posted were NOT examples that SS2 is a rehash of SS1, right ?
Wrong.
Certainly not as obvious as a rehash from SF2 to SF2:CE, but still a rehash. Lighten up.

No use talking with someone who can't be honest and admit it when he's wrong. Talk about maturity.
I'm done here.

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 10:58 AM
Stifu:
Both Haomaru sprites are EXACTLY the same, apart from color changes. Not even ONE pixel changed.
Do you see that kind of things between SF1 and SF2 ? Can you see ANY sprite reused in SF2 ? No, you can't.

No use talking with someone who can't be honest and admit it when he's wrong. I'm done here. Sorry big guy, not one pixel has changed? LOOK AT HIS HAIR. Sorry, you're the one who's full of it now.

Also, I talked about SF2 to SF2:CE, NOT SF1 to SF2. My analogy didn't consist of comparing sequels, it consisted of providing what a real rehashed game is. Jesus Christ, it's like I'm talking to a brick wall.

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: SonGohan ]</small>

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 11:05 AM
NB: I edited my above post but my point remains the same.

Okay, the hair has been changed.
I didn't pay much attention it it since the dark water behind it, in the first screen, makes it harder to spot.

But... Does that change make it a whole new sprite ?
Don't you think that kind of things ALSO happens in the SF2 upgrades ? For instance, look a Blanka moving backward in SF2 and in SSF2T... It looks a lot better in the latter.
That doesn't mean SSF2T is not a rehash of SF2. (I hope you won't come and tell me "No, SSF2T is a rehash of SSF2, not SF2, now ¬_¬)

You're simply being hypocritical.
How old are YOU ?

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 11:14 AM
How in the world am I being hypocritical? Look at his sprite. His hair is different, the colors are different, it's shaded different in certain spots. This is just one frame as well! So far the only evidence you've given to support your statement that SS2 is a rehash of SS1 is that Haohmaru has an improved frame edit of his fierce slash.

Come on, you're only fooling yourself if you think this is just an "update" to SS1. The SF2 series is universally known for receiving minor updates over the span of 5 games. Each proceeding game is a minor update over the last. This is not the case with SS2. It would've been the same if it was just the same sprite with new frames for new moves. There are tons and tons of new frames in this game, and you're going to pick and choose the few frames that are touched up for christ's sake to try and say it's a rehash. Give me a break.

Explain how I'm being hypocritical. I was nice enough to explain everything I've said to you (unlike you), so I would expect the same in return.

I'm 22, my brain is fully functional, and I went through puberty about 9 years ago. My reasoning is solid, as well are my points I bring to the table. Try it yourself. ¬_¬

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: SonGohan ]</small>

Amix
09-09-2003, 11:17 AM
Stifu:
NB: I edited my above post but my point remains the same.

Okay, the hair has been changed.
I didn't pay much attention it it since the dark water behind it, in the first screen, makes it harder to spot.

But... Does that change make it a whole new sprite ?
Don't you think that kind of things ALSO happens in the SF2 upgrades ? For instance, look a Blanka moving backward in SF2 and in SSF2T... It looks a lot better in the latter.
That doesn't mean SSF2T is not a rehash of SF2. (I hope you won't come and tell me "No, SSF2T is a rehash of SSF2, not SF2, now ¬_¬)

You're simply being hypocritical.
How old are YOU ? I thought you were done.

FeelGood
09-09-2003, 11:18 AM
Stifu:
Okay, the hair has been changed.the stance is also a bit dropped.

SonGohan
09-09-2003, 11:20 AM
EvilWasabi:

Stifu:
Okay, the hair has been changed.the stance is also a bit dropped. Agreed, his upper body looks a bit thinner as well.

Evil Wasabi
09-09-2003, 12:13 PM
Amix:
I thought you were done. I thought so as well, but he wouldn't leave it at that and gave me stuff to talk about again. And when I'll really be done you won't see me again, but so far I can come back just as much as I want, until I'm tired or bored. Okay ?


Also, Gohan, I took those screens myself, and that's the only thing I showed you because I didn't feel like making more. Do so yourself if you feel like it.
You wanted ONE thing, I gave it to you.

As for SS2, I did say it was an update. Not a "little" update like the ones of SF2, but I still consider it an upgrade. Same game, improved system, more characters (but Tam Tam removed), and stuff. It's not like the game had been totally done from scratch, like with SS3.

And why did I call you hypocritical ?
Because you asked me to show you evidences that some stuff SS1 stuff was re-used in SS2. (I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again)

And I did show you an evidence of it, and you still find things to bitch about. (the hair changed blabla)
The fact is that frame is originally from SS1. Period.

"Hypocritical" may not be the word I was looking for, but I couldn't think of anything more accurate in English.

Oh, and also...

"Usage: To {Argue}, {Dispute}, {Debate}. These words, as here compared, suppose a contest between two parties in respect to some point at issue. To argue is to adduce arguments or reasons in support of one's cause or position. To dispute is to call in question or deny the statements or arguments of the opposing party. To debate is to strive for or against in a somewhat formal manner by arguments."

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

rarehero
09-09-2003, 12:22 PM
saw the videos finally.
last boss looks cool.
the different color haos though look kinda dumb though.

SonGohan
09-10-2003, 02:29 AM
Stifu:
Also, Gohan, I took those screens myself, and that's the only thing I showed you because I didn't feel like making more. Do so yourself if you feel like it.
You wanted ONE thing, I gave it to you.
Show me where I said I wanted ONE thing. I said give me examples (notice, that this is like the third time I've bolded and/or italicized the 's' to indicate a plural form of the word. I asked you to give examples to back up your argument and all you showed was ONE frame that wasn't even identical. THIS was supposed to be your reasoning? Give me a break.


Stifu:
As for SS2, I did say it was an update. Not a "little" update like the ones of SF2, but I still consider it an upgrade. Same game, improved system, more characters (but Tam Tam removed), and stuff. It's not like the game had been totally done from scratch, like with SS3.
You said it was a rehash, plain and simple. Here, I'll even quote it from a page or so back:


Stifu:
SS2 IS a rehash of SS1 by the way.
SS2 is not a SS1 rehash, and I'll repeat myself again - The only thing you were able to do to back up your statement was take a shot of a frame that's been very enhanced and say "kthx, have a good day". Your whole argument is weak. The characters have different standing, walking, and back pacing animations. They also have different and extra frames for their regular/new moves. The game doesn't even play like the first one. With all this said, you still think it's a rehash because they didn't redo the few reused frames that are in the game? My analogy still stands strong on what a true game rehash is.


Stifu:
And why did I call you hypocritical ?
Because you asked me to show you evidences that some stuff SS1 stuff was re-used in SS2. (I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again)
Exactly! I asked you to show me evidenceS and all I got was a frame that wasn't even exactly the same as the original. By the way:

hypocrite

n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that they do not hold

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about and am just going at it for fun, you need to realize that there are plenty of other people I'd rather be discussing things with than somebody who's painted himself in a corner with his whole bs argument.


Stifu:
And I did show you an evidence of it, and you still find things to bitch about. (the hair changed blabla)
The fact is that frame is originally from SS1. Period.
Yeah right, whatever dude. I swear you are clearly unable to keep track of all the crap you've said in this thread. In fact, when pertaining to that comment, you tried to shove in my face with this:


Stifu:
Not even ONE pixel changed.
There, straight from your mouth. So next time don't try and shove crap like that in my face when I call you on it.


Stifu:
"Usage: To {Argue}, {Dispute}, {Debate}. These words, as here compared, suppose a contest between two parties in respect to some point at issue. To argue is to adduce arguments or reasons in support of one's cause or position. To dispute is to call in question or deny the statements or arguments of the opposing party. To debate is to strive for or against in a somewhat formal manner by arguments." Yeah, well read a little further down:

Men of many words sometimes argue for the sake of talking; men of ready tongues frequently dispute for the sake of victory; men in public life often debate for the sake of opposing the ruling party, or from any other motive than the love of truth.

If anything is going on, it's a dispute to your claims of SS2 being a rehash of SS1, which you still haven't proven other than a couple screenshots that wasn't even an exact rip. Please, if you respond, back up your claims with something more, or else it's wise to just shut your mouth and be thought a fool.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 07:00 AM
"Show me where I said I wanted ONE thing.(...)"

As I said, if you want more, take the screens yourself... And tell me what you WOULD consider an evidence, so that I don't waste my time ripping graphics from both games.

"You said it was a rehash, plain and simple. Here, I'll even quote it from a page or so back:"

I never denied I said it was a rehash. Rehash, update, whatever, same thing.

"The characters have different standing, walking, and back pacing animations. They also have different and extra frames for their regular/new moves. The game doesn't even play like the first one. With all this said, you still think it's a rehash because they didn't redo the few reused frames that are in the game? My analogy still stands strong on what a true game rehash is."

I know the game looks smoother, that the characters look better etc etc... But it's still based on the first one: The characters have the same size and all, frames reused... I'm not sure if SS2 has like sound effects taken from SS1, or if they recorded new ones, I could find out, but anyway...

You want evidence*S* huh ? So simply TWO things would be enough ?
Another screenshot would probably not be enough for you, would it ? ¬_¬

"If you think I don't know what I'm talking about and am just going at it for fun, you need to realize that there are plenty of other people I'd rather be discussing things with than somebody who's painted himself in a corner with his whole bs argument."

I didn't mean that. I meant that you knew what I meant, that I was right about this frame (don't bring up the hair thing again, it's a mere detail, it still remains a sprite EDIT), and you won't admit it for any stupid reason like pride or whatever.
You will now probably say I'm assuming wrongly again, heh. Predictable. ¬_¬
Or saying I'm assuming that you're gonna say I'm assuming... Bleh.

"(...) There, straight from your mouth. So next time don't try and shove crap like that in my face when I call you on it."

As I already said, okay, there were pixels changed, I was wrong. And I ALREADY admitted it, and said I didn't comment on that part because of the dark water behind the hair. (I don't mind admitting being wrong, unlike you, obviously... But you may say that's because you're NOT wrong, huh ?)
Just look at the body however.
And you're avoiding my point by bringing the hair thing up, all I wanted to show is that SS2 was using SS1 stuff. Leave it at that.

"(...) a couple screenshots that wasn't even an exact rip"

Not an exact rip ? You mean the screen was not ?
Why ? Because of the JPG format that altered the color of a few pixels every now and then ? Want it in BMP format next time ?

Anyway, it looks like we don't have the same definition of rehash.
For me, a rehash is like: take a game, change / add / substract stuff.
NOT a rehash: make a new game from scratch.

For you, it seems rehash is like: take a game, add stuff, keep the gameplay intact.

"Please, if you respond, back up your claims with something more, or else it's wise to just shut your mouth and be thought a fool."

I will not shut up because I believe what I'm saying, I'd have quitted a while ago if that wasn't the case. I'm just standing my case.

PS: As for the argue/debate thing, I proved that the difference there is between both words was NOT made up by me and that it does exist, despite what you said. You were basically saying that I just THOUGHT debating was different from arguing, and that it wasn't not your fault I assumed their meaning the wrong way. (I didn't check back what you said, so this is far from word to word, just the main idea).
Now, you can ALWAYS find other definitions of the words, some that would prove me wrong. But to begin with, your "dictionary" saying debate = argue is just wrong, both words are close, yes, but they're not the same. There is no such thing as TRUE synonyms, there's always at least a slight difference between each word. (like to convince/persuade, etc etc)

... And to conclude, I *wanted* to debate about it, but now maybe what we're currently doing can't be called debating, but that's not what I wanted in the first place. Although I'm doing efforts to keep it nice and intelligent. (... Yes I am)

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

FeelGood
09-10-2003, 07:05 AM
Here's the main concern. Spelled out as clear as I can for even Stifu to understand.

When SS1 moved to SSII, the character sprites, backgrounds, music, all got enhanced.

When SSIII moved to SSIV, the sprites got stretched, character pallettes and backgrounds washed. It was not a step up.

UNDERSTAND?

JHendrix
09-10-2003, 07:11 AM
EvilWasabi:
Here's the main concern. Spelled out as clear as I can for even Stifu to understand.

When SS1 moved to SSII, the character sprites, backgrounds, music, all got enhanced.

When SSIII moved to SSIV, the sprites got stretched, character pallettes and backgrounds washed. It was not a step up.

UNDERSTAND? Yeah but they fixed a lot of the bugs that were in SS3. Aka easy infinites and made it so the matches would last more than 30 seconds because of the damage.

Granted one thing I like about SS3 is that with the insane damage it gets down to the "both players have one hit left before death" which makes things VERY friggin tense and fun, but in an arcade where you're puttin money in for every match, people would leave SS3 alone because it'd be over so quick.

And yeah if you're playing assholes then the infinites can create a very un-fun scenario, but once you start playing at home against friends instead of an arcade against strangers (which I'm sure is how 95% of SS vs. games are played now) it becomes less of an issue.

Amix
09-10-2003, 07:19 AM
JHendrix:
Yeah but they fixed a lot of the bugs that were in SS3. Aka easy infinites and made it so the matches would last more than 30 seconds because of the damage.

Let's just say they did remove every infinite and what have you, does that mean it is an excuse for the game to take a step down aesthetically?

I mean, when someone asks me to fix something and I step in, "fix" the old problems but in return give whatever the hell I was fixing new problems, and made it look like a POS in the process; well, I wouldn't call it an improvement exactly.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 07:19 AM
To EvilWasabi:
So, "just" because everything got enhanced, that doesn't make it a rehash ?
It sounds like you guys give the word "rehash" a negative connotation. I don't mean it in a bad way, I love SS2. But I still think it's a SS1 upgrade.

Now, about the fact that SS4 has "stretched" sprites of SS3...
I just checked myself, took a screen of Haomaru in SS3 and then in SS4, and compared.
He's not been stretched, same size and all. The sprite is very slightly different, but it doesn't look like it's been stretched to me.
If you really want me to I can post screens of that as well.

Can you be more specific about that "stretch" thing you're talking about ?
Maybe you just mean it happens in a few frames or moves ? Because I didn't notice it myself.

Now, whether you consider SS4 is an upgrade or a downgrade of SS3... I think we agree about the fact SS4 is based on SS3, no ?
Well, I think the same goes for SS2 and SS1.
Sure, it improves the game a lot more than from SS3 to SS4, but still. SS2 was not a "whole new game" when it got released... (Regardless of the fact that sentence may not sound right ¬_¬)

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

FeelGood
09-10-2003, 07:22 AM
JHendrix:

EvilWasabi:
Here's the main concern. Spelled out as clear as I can for even Stifu to understand.

When SS1 moved to SSII, the character sprites, backgrounds, music, all got enhanced.

When SSIII moved to SSIV, the sprites got stretched, character pallettes and backgrounds washed. It was not a step up.

UNDERSTAND? Yeah but they fixed a lot of the bugs that were in SS3. Aka easy infinites and made it so the matches would last more than 30 seconds because of the damage.

Granted one thing I like about SS3 is that with the insane damage it gets down to the "both players have one hit left before death" which makes things VERY friggin tense and fun, but in an arcade where you're puttin money in for every match, people would leave SS3 alone because it'd be over so quick.

And yeah if you're playing assholes then the infinites can create a very un-fun scenario, but once you start playing at home against friends instead of an arcade against strangers (which I'm sure is how 95% of SS vs. games are played now) it becomes less of an issue. Infinites were replaced with different infinites in SSIV.

Between the people I was playing SSIII with, getting into an infinite was a sign that the opponent completely have a lapse of focus. It just didn't happen too often (and we'd play for hours every day back then).

Thing about the infinites in SSIV is that they are based off the CD combo system. Connecting with the CD attack is a lot easier than a AB side step into a back attack when playing against an opponent that knows what's up.

Basically, some people say that there were bugs fixed. I disagree. People complain about being killed in 3 hits. How many of Genjuro's C slashes does it take to kill you in SSIV? 4. Not a big difference.

PS: I don't hate SSIV. I hate people that prefer it over any other SS game. It's the worst of the series. But still more fun than half the KoFs.

Amix
09-10-2003, 07:24 AM
Stifu:
To EvilWasabi:
So, "just" because everything got enhanced, that doesn't make it a rehash ?
It sounds like you guys give the word "rehash" a negative connotation. I don't mean it in a bad way, I love SS2. But I still think it's a SS1 upgrade.

That's because rehash does have a negative connotation. If you bring something forth again without any significant alteration, then it is a rehash. How the hell can you look at that in a positive light? And so, by that definition, SSII is not rehash.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 07:26 AM
Really ?
However, look at what Gohan said:

"A closer analogy of rehashing a game would be SF2 to SF2:CE"

Although, SF2:CE is technically superior to SF2 on ALL points, and doesn't bring any 'new problem', I think. (unless you prefer to have bosses not selectable, but that's a detail)

Amix
09-10-2003, 07:30 AM
Stifu:
Really ?
However, look at what Gohan said:

"A closer analogy of rehashing a game would be SF2 to SF2:CE"

Although, SF2:CE is technically superior to SF2 on ALL points, and doesn't bring any 'new problem', I think. (unless you prefer to have bosses not selectable, but that's a detail) I'm not Gohan. And I don't care what he used as an example.

Everything in SSII took a step up: The graphics, the sound, the gameplay, the music, the roster, and so on.

A good example of rehash would be KOF2k1 to KOF2k2. Shit was just changed around - for better or worse.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 07:39 AM
I was just quoting what Gohan said as an example, because I assume English is your native language, for both of you, but it's not my case.

But now, if you two don't agree on the sense of that word... ¬_¬

Amix
09-10-2003, 07:45 AM
Stifu:
I was just quoting what Gohan said as an example, because I assume English is your native language, for both of you, but it's not my case.

But now, if you two don't agree on the sense of that word... ¬_¬ Good christ. I don't give a shit what he used as an example. And I'm not taking sides here - I'm just letting you know what rehash means.

I also don't care if English is your 3rd language, or 4th, or 5th - if you want a linguistic advantage take this arguement - oh wait, debate - over to the international forum.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 07:48 AM
You don't give a shit, you don't care... Blablabla. ¬_¬
Then don't even bother intervening if it's to answer stuff like that when I ask you something.

You don't have to be an ass about it, I was being cool.

JHendrix
09-10-2003, 07:50 AM
EvilWasabi:

JHendrix:

EvilWasabi:
Here's the main concern. Spelled out as clear as I can for even Stifu to understand.

When SS1 moved to SSII, the character sprites, backgrounds, music, all got enhanced.

When SSIII moved to SSIV, the sprites got stretched, character pallettes and backgrounds washed. It was not a step up.

UNDERSTAND? Yeah but they fixed a lot of the bugs that were in SS3. Aka easy infinites and made it so the matches would last more than 30 seconds because of the damage.

Granted one thing I like about SS3 is that with the insane damage it gets down to the "both players have one hit left before death" which makes things VERY friggin tense and fun, but in an arcade where you're puttin money in for every match, people would leave SS3 alone because it'd be over so quick.

And yeah if you're playing assholes then the infinites can create a very un-fun scenario, but once you start playing at home against friends instead of an arcade against strangers (which I'm sure is how 95% of SS vs. games are played now) it becomes less of an issue. Infinites were replaced with different infinites in SSIV.

Between the people I was playing SSIII with, getting into an infinite was a sign that the opponent completely have a lapse of focus. It just didn't happen too often (and we'd play for hours every day back then).

Thing about the infinites in SSIV is that they are based off the CD combo system. Connecting with the CD attack is a lot easier than a AB side step into a back attack when playing against an opponent that knows what's up.

Basically, some people say that there were bugs fixed. I disagree. People complain about being killed in 3 hits. How many of Genjuro's C slashes does it take to kill you in SSIV? 4. Not a big difference.

PS: I don't hate SSIV. I hate people that prefer it over any other SS game. It's the worst of the series. But still more fun than half the KoFs. They also removed the super meter charging and improved the roster some. :p

Also could you give me an example of CD combo infinites, I've actually not encountered any (not that I play anyone much in the game, but it's still interesting to see if/how they exist.

And if your opponent gets hit with 4 of Genji's firce slashes then they deserve to die. :p Reguardless the matches in SS4 do tend to last quite a bit longer than the ones in SS3, which I think they did because of the arcade playtime issue.

They also fixed the AI a bit, because an AI that wins most of the time is a sloppy one. I mean SS4 aint' perfect in that reguard but it's better than the cheesy stuff in SS3.

And yeah the SS series is something you can't just pick one game and stick with it as the best. SS2, 3, and 4 are all worth playing. Now if only they'd bring back Cham Cham...

Amix
09-10-2003, 07:51 AM
Stifu:
You don't give a shit, you don't care... Blablabla. ¬_¬
Then don't even bother intervening if it's to answer stuff like that when I ask you something.
What do you mean don't intervene to answer a question you asked me?

And I'm not being a hard on, dude. No one is insulting you - well, I'm not anyway.

SonGohan
09-10-2003, 07:53 AM
Stifu:
As I said, if you want more, take the screens yourself... And tell me what you WOULD consider an evidence, so that I don't waste my time ripping graphics from both games.
Why would I take the screens myself? I'm not the one that's trotting that the game is a rehash. Perhaps there is some huge clusterfuck of images that I'm apparently not seeing that you'd be so kind to grace me with.


Stifu:
I never denied I said it was a rehash. Rehash, update, whatever, same thing.
Sigh, my whole point is that I gave you a specific example of what a rehashed game was, and then you tried to say SF just got "little updates", as well as SS2, which is clearly not the case. SS2 is a major improvement in every way over the first. Take a look at SF2 and SF2:CE. The whole engine is basically the same. This is what a rehash is.


Stifu:
I know the game looks smoother, that the characters look better etc etc... But it's still based on the first one: The characters have the same size and all, frames reused... I'm not sure if SS2 has like sound effects taken from SS1, or if they recorded new ones, I could find out, but anyway...
So when 80% of the sprites are new, you still consider them based on the first one? Sorry, I can understand if it's the same sprite, same frames, and same everything but with little edits for new moves and such, but SS2 is more than that. Take example - KOF2k2 has Kim with a new stance and a few new frames, but it is still based on his older versions. You can clearly see his old frames in 90% of his moves. It's not like this in SS2, most of the frames are new, thus it is not a rehash, because rehash leads you to believe it's the same thing, when it isn't.


Stifu:
You want evidence*S* huh ? So simply TWO things would be enough ?
Another screenshot would probably not be enough for you, would it ? ¬_¬
My whole point was that I asked you to give examples regarding a multitude of things, and you tried a lame copout with an updated sprite, saying all I wanted was one, and now I'll never be satisfied with what you give. Can you please read and comprehend what I'm saying?


Stifu:
I didn't mean that. I meant that you knew what I meant, that I was right about this frame (don't bring up the hair thing again, it's a mere detail, it still remains a sprite EDIT), and you won't admit it for any stupid reason like pride or whatever.
You will now probably say I'm assuming wrongly again, heh. Predictable. ¬_¬
Or saying I'm assuming that you're gonna say I'm assuming... Bleh.
You told me it was the exact same rip, and it wasn't. It wasn't color for color, pixel for pixel. It's enhanced from the previous sprite, not the exact rip. Then you just stuck your foot in your mouth with the "NOT ONE PIXEL HAS CHANGED", which was an obvious opportunity to bring you back down to your place. Then you'll play on me not owning up to what the facts are. Ask anyone, I have absolutely no problem admitting when I am wrong, but I'm not in this case.


Stifu:
(I don't mind admitting being wrong, unlike you, obviously... But you may say that's because you're NOT wrong, huh ?)
Just look at the body however.
And you're avoiding my point by bringing the hair thing up, all I wanted to show is that SS2 was using SS1 stuff. Leave it at that.
No, go to the root of the discussion, I asked you to bring forth evidence that SS2 was a SS1 rehash, and all you provided was Haohmaru's feirce slash frame that wasn't even the same, it was enhanced, and you tried to act all giddy that you were right, which led into a whole other thing which was minor details over you saying no pixels changed, blah blah blah. I honestly don't even care about that right now, like I said, the arguments spread like jack rabbits, let's try to keep it to just one. Read above, I have no problems admitting when I am wrong. I admitted openly on the board that SS3 is indeed a better game than SS4, after I defended it so much.


Stifu:
Not an exact rip ? You mean the screen was not ?
Why ? Because of the JPG format that altered the color of a few pixels every now and then ? Want it in BMP format next time ?
An EXACT rip means NOTHING was changed, not one thing, and I'm talking about the frame that you tried to (terribly) compare. Like sprites from SF2 to SF2CE, those are exact rips.


Stifu:
Anyway, it looks like we don't have the same definition of rehash.
For me, a rehash is like: take a game, change / add / substract stuff.
NOT a rehash: make a new game from scratch.

For you, it seems rehash is like: take a game, add stuff, keep the gameplay intact.
Very simple, rehash is giving a person the same game twice. SS2 is not the same game as SS1, it's really that simple.


Stifu:
I will not shut up because I believe what I'm saying, I'd have quitted a while ago if that wasn't the case. I'm just standing my case.
You're standing your case, but what is your case? I haven't seen you give any other examples of why SS2 is a rehash of SS1, all you've been doing is arguing over details of the argument - not the argument itself, and that is why I said what I said. It's pointless to argue about things like that, if you have any other facts to backup your claims of why SS2 is a rehash of SS1, then by all means prove them - hell that's what I've been sitting here saying this whole time, I guess it just flew over your head.


Stifu:
PS: As for the argue/debate thing, I proved that the difference there is between both words was NOT made up by me and that it does exist, despite what you said. You were basically saying that I just THOUGHT debating was different from arguing, and that it wasn't not your fault I assumed their meaning the wrong way. (I didn't check back what you said, so this is far from word to word, just the main idea).
Now, you can ALWAYS find other definitions of the words, some that would prove me wrong. But to begin with, your "dictionary" saying debate = argue is just wrong, both words are close, yes, but they're not the same. There is no such thing as TRUE synonyms, there's always at least a slight difference between each word. (like to convince/persuade, etc etc)
You told me to check the differences on the words, and I did, and what I came up with showed it as being applicable to the other, and that your comment (which was made for no other reason than to try and belittle my comments which had nothing to do with it anyway) really had nothing to do with what was being discussed at hand.


Stifu:
... And to conclude, I *wanted* to debate about it, but now maybe what we're currently doing can't be called debating, but that's not what I wanted in the first place. Although I'm doing efforts to keep it nice and intelligent. (... Yes I am) You get an 'E' for effort on arguing about arguing then, but not about backing up your claims to why it's a rehash.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 07:56 AM
Amix: I didn't mean "don't intervene to answer a question", I meant "don't intervene if you're gonna say I don't care about anything I ask or say."

And if you didn't mean to sound insulting, fine then, no offense taken.

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 08:02 AM
Gohan: ... You're telling me to back up things I say, although, on the other hand you're saying "now I'll never be satisfied with what you give"...

SonGohan
09-10-2003, 08:04 AM
Back up what you say, that's all I ask. Give specific examples. If you can bring something big to the table, I can say "hey, I may not agree with him on what a rehash is, but I can kinda see where the guy is coming from with all of his problems with what SS2 is in regards to SS1". I'm not talking about just sprite rips either, I'm talking about the whole game which includes everything. Now, you don't have to talk about everything, but at least hit good points on why you think what you think about the game being a rehash.

Evil Wasabi
09-10-2003, 08:31 AM
"(...) problems with what SS2 is in regards to SS1"

Sorry if I missunderstood, but it sounds like you're saying I have a problem with SS2 being what it is.
It's not the case, I really like the game as I said, I just don't think it's as "fresh" as some people say it is. But I don't mind 'game upgrades' at all... It's a big upgrade to SS1, but still an upgrade to me.

Now seriously, I can't think of any "example" I haven't mentioned yet about both games.
Like, same roster with added characters minus Tam Tam, as I said...
Hmmm, talking about that, can you think of any game sequels, done from scratch, where all the characters come back in it ? Usually ,as in FF3 or SFA, they bring new characters but take out loads of characters that were in the previous games, also resulting in having less characters than in the prequel.

Examples:
SFA (10+3) - SSF2T (16+1)
FF3 (10+2) - FFS (15+1)
RBFF2 (22+1) - Garou MotW (12+2)

The number to the left of the brackets is for characters selectable right from the start, and the one to the right is for hidden/boss characters, whether they're selectable in a way or not.

Now, about Tam Tam, I think they removed him to make SS1 have something SS2 wouldn't have.
That happens in some other SNK games too. (Certaily not something that'd happen in a Street Fighter. Although in SSF2T they removed the bonus stages for some reason...)

Sure, you could say the Samurai Shodown series doesn't have to do like with FF3, or like Capcom did with SFA, and keep (almost) all its characters.

... Anyway, it's not like I can convince you since we don't seem to have the same definition for "rehash"... And it's not like I really want to convince you either, it doesn't matter, whether you think SS2 is a SS1 upgrade (rehash, update, whatever) or not.

Now, I'd rather stop this discussion about SS1/SS2 for now.

You can say I'm "running with my tail between my legs" if that makes you happy, but I just currently have nothing to add, and I wouldn't want to keep going whereas I have nothing else to say...

FeelGood
09-10-2003, 08:38 AM
JHendrix:

EvilWasabi:

JHendrix:

EvilWasabi:
Here's the main concern. Spelled out as clear as I can for even Stifu to understand.

When SS1 moved to SSII, the character sprites, backgrounds, music, all got enhanced.

When SSIII moved to SSIV, the sprites got stretched, character pallettes and backgrounds washed. It was not a step up.

UNDERSTAND? Yeah but they fixed a lot of the bugs that were in SS3. Aka easy infinites and made it so the matches would last more than 30 seconds because of the damage.

Granted one thing I like about SS3 is that with the insane damage it gets down to the "both players have one hit left before death" which makes things VERY friggin tense and fun, but in an arcade where you're puttin money in for every match, people would leave SS3 alone because it'd be over so quick.

And yeah if you're playing assholes then the infinites can create a very un-fun scenario, but once you start playing at home against friends instead of an arcade against strangers (which I'm sure is how 95% of SS vs. games are played now) it becomes less of an issue. Infinites were replaced with different infinites in SSIV.

Between the people I was playing SSIII with, getting into an infinite was a sign that the opponent completely have a lapse of focus. It just didn't happen too often (and we'd play for hours every day back then).

Thing about the infinites in SSIV is that they are based off the CD combo system. Connecting with the CD attack is a lot easier than a AB side step into a back attack when playing against an opponent that knows what's up.

Basically, some people say that there were bugs fixed. I disagree. People complain about being killed in 3 hits. How many of Genjuro's C slashes does it take to kill you in SSIV? 4. Not a big difference.

PS: I don't hate SSIV. I hate people that prefer it over any other SS game. It's the worst of the series. But still more fun than half the KoFs. They also removed the super meter charging and improved the roster some. :p

Also could you give me an example of CD combo infinites, I've actually not encountered any (not that I play anyone much in the game, but it's still interesting to see if/how they exist.

And if your opponent gets hit with 4 of Genji's firce slashes then they deserve to die. :p Reguardless the matches in SS4 do tend to last quite a bit longer than the ones in SS3, which I think they did because of the arcade playtime issue.

They also fixed the AI a bit, because an AI that wins most of the time is a sloppy one. I mean SS4 aint' perfect in that reguard but it's better than the cheesy stuff in SS3.

And yeah the SS series is something you can't just pick one game and stick with it as the best. SS2, 3, and 4 are all worth playing. Now if only they'd bring back Cham Cham... In my opinion, the versions of Charlotte, Jubei, and Tam Tam that were added to the roster were not really improvements. Sure, the roster did increase, but other than the Kazama brothers, there's nothing to boast about. Nothing much at all.

Also, I liked being able to charge the super meter. I liked it a lot because I got to play KoF 94 and 95 in 94 and 95. I was very used to it.

I'll forego the CD attack infinites other than to say that they are really more 100% combos.

Any opponent that dies in 3 in SSIII slashes deserves it more than an opponent that dies from 4 in SSIV. Trust me, when you get better, you will not be on the recieving end of that stick. In all the versus action I've been blessed with in the past few years, it hasn't happened at all. But I've done it to people. spock They just aren't that good yet.

An AI that wins most of the time is sloppy? Come on. When you play SSIII, it's much closer to playing a human than SSIV. The AI in SSIV is so predictable and stupid that if you don't get to Amakusa every damn time, you obviously haven't been paying attention to the simple iteneraries that each character has in the match.

EvilMike
09-10-2003, 10:07 AM
Any opponent that dies in 3 in SSIII slashes deserves it more than an opponent that dies from 4 in SSIV. [/QB]Charlie what about the people that die from 2 Haoh slashes?????

make_fac

SilverWolf
09-10-2003, 07:37 PM
Give it up stifu. Remember, these people are the same people who actually deny that Hugo in SVC is the same sprite used in SFIII! It's useless to try to prove your point to these dumbasses. OOPS! Hope you didn't take that as a flame now. If you did, grow a thicker hide!

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: SilverWolf ]</small>

SonGohan
09-10-2003, 08:46 PM
SilverWolf:
Give it up stifu. Remember, these people are the same people who actually deny that Hugo in SVC is the same sprite used in SFIII! It's useless to try to prove your point to these dumbasses. OOPS! Hope you didn't take that as a flame now. If you did, grow a thicker hide! When did I ever deny that Hugo was the same sprite in SF3? Get your facts straight, retard. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this thread then really, don't bother posting at all.

SilverWolf
09-10-2003, 09:06 PM
SonGohan:

SilverWolf:
Give it up stifu. Remember, these people are the same people who actually deny that Hugo in SVC is the same sprite used in SFIII! It's useless to try to prove your point to these dumbasses. OOPS! Hope you didn't take that as a flame now. If you did, grow a thicker hide! When did I ever deny that Hugo was the same sprite in SF3? Get your facts straight, retard. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this thread then really, don't bother posting at all. Did I say it was you in particular? If you can't even take in what I said(which wasn't even directed towards you), then do us all a favor and start practicing what you preach: GROW A THICKER HIDE you damn hypocrite! And I suppose you are contributing a great deal to this thread as well?

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: SilverWolf ]</small>

SonGohan
09-10-2003, 09:28 PM
SilverWolf:
Did I say it was you in particular? If you can't even take in what I said(which wasn't even directed towards you), then do us all a favor and start practicing what you preach: GROW A THICKER HIDE you damn hypocrite! And I suppose you are contributing a great deal to this thread as well? Really, are you as stupid as you make yourself out to be on these boards? Not only did you say these people, which tells the reader that those people are the ones that's calling him on his statements, and then you finished up nicely with my statement of grow a thicker hide. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together, now does it?

Also, who said what you said offended me enough to run away from this thread? I've contributed more to this thread then your silly ass has to this board. Looks like when I said grow a thicker hide, you mistook it for your skull, stupidass.

SilverWolf
09-10-2003, 09:45 PM
SonGohan:

SilverWolf:
Did I say it was you in particular? If you can't even take in what I said(which wasn't even directed towards you), then do us all a favor and start practicing what you preach: GROW A THICKER HIDE you damn hypocrite! And I suppose you are contributing a great deal to this thread as well? Really, are you as stupid as you make yourself out to be on these boards? Not only did you say these people, which tells the reader that those people are the ones that's calling him on his statements, and then you finished up nicely with my statement of grow a thicker hide. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together, now does it?

Also, who said what you said offended me enough to run away from this thread? I've contributed more to this thread then your silly ass has to this board. Looks like when I said grow a thicker hide, you mistook it for your skull, stupidass. It's just really funny to me to see how fast you you start jumping at defending yourself over such "small" comments. All this coming from somebody who is telling others to grow a thicker hide? And when I said "These people" I was referring to the overall lame and stubborn fanboyish ideals that so many people embrace in this forum. Take a hint you retard. Let me rephrase that; Take a hint you hypocritical retard.

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: SilverWolf ]</small>

beelzebubble
09-10-2003, 10:14 PM
It's just really funny to me to see how fast you you start jumping at defending yourself over such "small" comments. All this coming from somebody who is telling others to grow a thicker hide? And when I said "These people" I was referring to the overall lame and stubborn fanboyish ideals in this forum. Take a hint you retard. Let me rephrase that; Take a hint you hypocritical retard.
silverwolf why dont you fuck off back to srk... i dont say that becoz you seem to be a capcom fanboy.. nothing wrong with that, i say it becoz you seem to be here just to stir up shit. aint you got anything better to do?

where is your hugo comment found? oh yeah dont get too pissed off about this response or youll be a hypocrite :D

SilverWolf
09-10-2003, 10:28 PM
beelzebubble:

It's just really funny to me to see how fast you you start jumping at defending yourself over such "small" comments. All this coming from somebody who is telling others to grow a thicker hide? And when I said "These people" I was referring to the overall lame and stubborn fanboyish ideals in this forum. Take a hint you retard. Let me rephrase that; Take a hint you hypocritical retard.
silverwolf why dont you fuck off back to srk... i dont say that becoz you seem to be a capcom fanboy.. nothing wrong with that, i say it becoz you seem to be here just to stir up shit. aint you got anything better to do?

where is your hugo comment found? oh yeah dont get too pissed off about this response or youll be a hypocrite :D Nope not pissed. BTW, I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not the one who tells people about one thing and then go back on my words the next. And no I'm not a capcom fanboy. I enjoy both sides of what capcom and Snk have to offer. Just that now Playmore/SNK is making me enjoy only the capcom side now and so therefore, I may come off as a capcom fanboy. Me stirring up shit? You should see what half of these guys do and get away with! What's worse is that the mod is one of them! Either suck up to him and take his stupid comments or face the wrath of others who live between his legs.

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: SilverWolf ]</small>

LWK
09-10-2003, 10:33 PM
Rasetsumaru looks like shit when hes not standing.
This game looks like SS4 so far, and I hated ss4.
I'm rich as fuck, so I dont care. I'll buy it anyway.

SS3 was the end of this series.

So with that said.. I hope Suija is entirely new.. I am not to keen on alot of things. Giby said something good about all this. Like SVC, they may fix animation or such.

I think rasetsumaru reaks of Playmore style though. new standing frame, old char behind the glass.

When are they going to realize we dont like this shit? We pay good money, we shouldnt have to put up with this shit.

Seriously. This is SS...
I thought it was gonna be good after those vids I originally saw.. This new footage is shit imo.

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Lord Wolfgang Krauser ]</small>

UnCauzi
09-10-2003, 10:46 PM
Lord Wolfgang Krauser:
Rasetsumaru looks like shit when hes not standing.
This game looks like SS4 so far, and I hated ss4.
I'm rich as fuck, so I dont care. I'll buy it anyway.

SS3 was the end of this series.

So with that said.. I hope Suija is entirely new.. I am not to keen on alot of things. Giby said something good about all this. Like SVC, they may fix animation or such.

I think rasetsumaru reaks of Playmore style though. new standing frame, old char behind the glass.

When are they going to realize we dont like this shit? We pay good money, we shouldnt have to put up with this shit.

Seriously. This is SS...
I thought it was gonna be good after those vids I originally saw.. This new footage is shit imo. Roger that. And is it me? Or does this enlightenment mode sound like it's trying to make it easier for someone to land their "lethal blow" by making your vulnerable frames last longer?

Fatal/lethal whatever it was = lame.

beelzebubble
09-10-2003, 10:50 PM
So with that said.. I hope Suija is entirely new.. I am not to keen on alot of things. Giby said something good about all this. Like SVC, they may fix animation or such.
suija... the sprite is new but the moves arent..

SonGohan
09-11-2003, 02:14 AM
SilverWolf:
It's just really funny to me to see how fast you you start jumping at defending yourself over such "small" comments. All this coming from somebody who is telling others to grow a thicker hide? I tell idiots like it is, whether it's one comment, or 30. You should be glad, because most people here wouldn't give you the time of day. They'd just go "oh, it's another cakeboy, I wonder what's going on in the KOF forums.." You'd be able to say I was a hypocrite if I actually took offense to anything you said and became overly angry, angry enough to say "ok, I'm not gonna take part in this mean discussion". Learn what word you so carelessly throw around.


SilverWolf:
And when I said "These people" I was referring to the overall lame and stubborn fanboyish ideals that so many people embrace in this forum. Take a hint you retard. Let me rephrase that; Take a hint you hypocritical retard. "These people" have more common sense than an angry nerd who serves no purpose other than to talk through his ass because his mouth knows better. I guess the chromosome that's used to form and comprehend coherent thoughts ran down the crack of your mom's ass when you were being conceived at the dwarf gangbang that took place down at the Gas 'n Sip over on 3rd.

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: SonGohan ]</small>

tsukaesugi
09-11-2003, 02:32 AM
SonGohan:
"These people" have more common sense than an angry nerd who serves no purpose other than to talk through his ass because his mouth knows better. I guess the chromosome that's used to form and comprehend coherent thoughts ran down the crack of your mom's ass when you were being conceived at the dwarf gangbang that took place down at the Gas 'n Sip over on 3rd. Ouch.

Anyhoo, played SS4 last night at the arcade for the first time in something like four years...

It was good. I played Sogetsu, and I thoughty he was a bit cheap; his strong slash takes him across half the screen and seems to have really high priority. Got a three game winning streak going against my buddy, but that was due more to Sogetsu's cheapness than any skill on my part I think.

Unfortunately, now that I've played both SS4 and SS0 I think I can say that the two are pretty damn similar game engine and sprite wise, so if you're not a fan of SS4 you might not like SS0...

I'd like to reiterate however, that I have played SS0 and like it a lot. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on an SS0 homecart very very much.

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: tsukaesugi ]</small>

SilverWolf
09-11-2003, 08:47 AM
SonGohan:

SilverWolf:
It's just really funny to me to see how fast you you start jumping at defending yourself over such "small" comments. All this coming from somebody who is telling others to grow a thicker hide? I tell idiots like it is, whether it's one comment, or 30. You should be glad, because most people here wouldn't give you the time of day. They'd just go "oh, it's another cakeboy, I wonder what's going on in the KOF forums.." You'd be able to say I was a hypocrite if I actually took offense to anything you said and became overly angry, angry enough to say "ok, I'm not gonna take part in this mean discussion". Learn what word you so carelessly throw around.


SilverWolf:
And when I said "These people" I was referring to the overall lame and stubborn fanboyish ideals that so many people embrace in this forum. Take a hint you retard. Let me rephrase that; Take a hint you hypocritical retard. "These people" have more common sense than an angry nerd who serves no purpose other than to talk through his ass because his mouth knows better. I guess the chromosome that's used to form and comprehend coherent thoughts ran down the crack of your mom's ass when you were being conceived at the dwarf gangbang that took place down at the Gas 'n Sip over on 3rd. Whatever man. Hypocrisy wreaks all over you. Obviously you're gonna keep rambling on and on eventhough your argument holds no water. I guess it's your way of showing that you've got bigger balls and your way of gaining respect as you probably don't have both of them in real life you idiot. I'm gonna stop debating with hypocritical retards for now. Back to Samurai Showdown.....

FeelGood
09-11-2003, 08:55 AM
SilverWolf:
What's worse is that the mod is one of them! Either suck up to him and take his stupid comments or face the wrath of others who live between his legs. That's a limp-dick statement there, kiddo. You're still here. I didn't fuck up your account. You're still posting as you were when you joined. YES, I flamed you. YES you ARE a RETARD. No one here likes you. You're an asshole in the wrong forums. Yet I haven't put an end to it. Can you figure out why?

But if you keep referencing me in your posts my short fuse might lead me to do something rather disagreeable. So if you value your time here, don't bother me.

SonGohan
09-11-2003, 08:58 AM
If my argument holds no water, then why aren't you able to specify why? All you've been able to do is babble your stupid opinion(which means dick to anybody on these boards) on arguments that don't even concern you. I'm suprised you even know how to spell hypocrisy, because you sure as hell don't have a clue as to it's meaning. You can ask anybody I've met off of these boards, I am 100% the same person, and I'd tell you the same shit to your pale, acne-ridden face.

If anything reeks in here, it's your thoughtless drivel you feel the need to post which inadvertently leads nowhere and leaves the reader wondering what the fuck was that moron smoking and why does he have access to the internet?