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trieuminator
11-02-2001, 02:38 PM
Brezzasoft is the name in which Mr. Kawasaki will be developing Neo Geo products.

For those curious, Mr. Kawasaki's sister-in-law was the person who won the bid for the Neo Geo rights. Obviously, he could not bid on his own rights, hence his sis-in-law did the favor.

In terms of titles, 4-5 is expected in the next 8 months, but nothing has been confirmed.

Mr. Kawasaki is relentless to keep this under his control as we've all read. I mean, if Capcom put a bid in and was outbidded, you know this guy has alot of passion to keep Neo Geo original.

As much as we all complain about how bad Neo games are, we all spend massive amounts of dollars to buy them anyway, so LIVE ON NEO GEO!!!! Good or bad. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

BrooklynSkin
11-02-2001, 02:44 PM
This is great news. I hope everything works out for the best.

Does anyone know what was bought besides the technology? Eolith still retains KOF right? So what does Brezzasoft have? Everything else? Besides MSlug too I suppose.

Blaine
11-02-2001, 02:47 PM
And I bet that Capcom was throwing top dollar out there too.

The SNK properties are VERY valuable.

Supreme Gozita
11-02-2001, 02:56 PM
I just wanna see TWO games: an AOF4(made like MOTW) and a real Fatal fury/aof crossover, nothing like KOF

RyoGeo
11-02-2001, 02:59 PM
God damn. Very nice, Tri. Thanks for the info. It is a breath of fresh air! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Kazuya_UK
11-02-2001, 02:59 PM
Hope this is true and it all works out well...

As for AOF4, that would be great too! <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

RevQuixo
11-02-2001, 03:11 PM
makes you wonder if they will develop games for the IGS polygamemaster since I believe that new brezzasoft game Crystal of kings is a IGS PGM game.


Could be interesting.

evasyar
11-02-2001, 03:19 PM
Hhhhhmmmmm.... Well Brooklynskin, that's interesting tho but I had the impression that Brezzasoft is the prime development house and had the rights for KoF development, not Eolith. Eolith had simply the exclusive publishing rights for Brezzasoft titles, MVS or other formats.

Hhhmmm... well now I'm getting a little confused... <IMG SRC="smilies/redface.gif" border="0">

Anyways, Congrats to Brezza and my hope for a much fruited fortune and please pump out some more King of Fighters, Metal Slugs, Fatal Fury, Samurai Shodowns, and Last Blade. I sincerely hope Brezza don't just limit themselves to MVS but to other mainstream systems as well. But of course release the MVS carts first, then wait six months to a year then develop to other mainstream consoles.

PS - Hey TRIEU, good job on relaying the great news brother!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

eaglesfan
11-02-2001, 03:20 PM
I too think this is great news and really makes sense. Brezzasoft is already signed with Apple Industries for game distribution and Apple has promised more Neo and SNK products in the future so it makes sense that Brezzasoft is the successor for SNK. I looks like the Ultracade collection of Neo games should go through then with Apple and Brezzasoft already doing business and Apple showing the unit at the AMOA. The "new hardware" used by Brezzasoft has been left mysterious up to this point, although many think it is going to be IGS hardware. I dont think this has been confirmed. It would be great timing if Brezzasoft was to develop a MVS 2 hardware board to continue with SNK licenses with a high powered, relatively cheap 2D hardware system. Perhaps 128 bit or above. A new board has been needed for some time, but they should make the board backward compatible to still support MVS software. This is a chance for Neo games to reclaim top graphics quality at the arcades from Sega and Naomi. Just a thought, but whatever happens, I think Brezzasoft is going to do a nice job with future Neo releases.

Poor Man's MS Fan
11-02-2001, 03:20 PM
Insane. . . .

ocsmod
11-02-2001, 03:29 PM
Uhmmm... Their web page (www.brezza.com) only seems to have KOF2001 info. Nothing about new games yet.
Great news anyway! <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0">

Daisuke Jigen
11-02-2001, 05:24 PM
This news brought a tear to my eye. God bless capitalism. <IMG SRC="smilies/tickled.gif" border="0">

aria
11-02-2001, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Daisuke Jigen:
<STRONG>This news brought a tear to my eye. God bless capitalism. <IMG SRC="smilies/tickled.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Screw capitalism... God bless loop-holes! <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Caris Nautilus
11-02-2001, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Blaine:
<STRONG>And I bet that Capcom was throwing top dollar out there too.

The SNK properties are VERY valuable.</STRONG>

Yea they are, but only in Asia, and Capcoms games are more popular in the US. They probably just wanted to do more Capcom vs SNK games <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

That's probably why capcom didn't outbid everyone, cause they have more than enough money, and could have easily won if they wanted.

After all they wern't popular enough to keep SNK from going bankrupt, the popularity isn't what it used to be. It's more fanatical now, but that's just a small minority of people.

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Drift King EX ]

insaneben
11-02-2001, 07:24 PM
Yeah! I can't wait to see what Breezasoft has planned down the road now that they own many of the SNK properties. Here's hoping for Kizuna Encounter 2, MOTW 2, Ninja Masters 2, World Heroes X, and the much-fabled Samurai Shodown 5 (among numerous other properties).

dredgulus
11-02-2001, 07:54 PM
Someone tell me that this is no joke. Please, post the sight where you got your information from. Because, my next system of choice is a NEO-GEO.

hupplark_39
11-02-2001, 07:55 PM
Yea! Samurai-5 i could almost taste it. <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0"> hupplark_39

dredgulus
11-02-2001, 07:57 PM
I just went to BrezzaSoft site, this was the old SNK King of Fighters 2001 page. BrezzaSoft must have bought the SNK rights.

complexz
11-02-2001, 08:00 PM
haha thats the exact same kof2001 page that was formerly on the snk page

if that aint a dead give away i donno what is

Chichiri
11-02-2001, 10:01 PM
Wont they have a complete lock on 2d fighting games now that capcom practically says they wont make anymore 2d fighters? They are "taking a break" right? peopel will always want to play 2d fighters, no matter what, cause they have the "feeling". you know what i mean...oi, ive lost my composure, sure glad that SNK's great properties will continue to live on, or at least have a chance. Though I'm sure Capcom didn't even take the whole thing seriously... given their new stance on 2d fighters they probably didn't really want the games that much. Though if they wanna make another Capcom vs. SNK i wouldnt see why Brezzasoft would say no, they could make a bundle off the deal too!

Piccolo_DBz
11-02-2001, 10:04 PM
YES! Finally I can dream of a Mark of the wolves sequel once again. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

UkyoDMB
11-02-2001, 10:15 PM
So when can we expect some of these 8 new titles, and is their a chance their will be an AES version?

Endtime
11-02-2001, 11:02 PM
I hope this means more AES games. I just got into the AES system and I don't want it to be in vain! <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0">

NeoGML
11-02-2001, 11:08 PM
homecarts homecarts HOMECARTS!

Lawrence Blood
11-02-2001, 11:09 PM
Sweet! I hope they make Garou 2 with Andy in it.

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Lawrence Blood ]

EX_Andy
11-02-2001, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by TRIEUMINATOR:
<STRONG>Brezzasoft is the name in which Mr. Kawasaki will be developing Neo Geo products.

For those curious, Mr. Kawasaki's sister-in-law was the person who won the bid for the Neo Geo rights. Obviously, he could not bid on his own rights, hence his sis-in-law did the favor.

In terms of titles, 4-5 is expected in the next 8 months, but nothing has been confirmed.

Mr. Kawasaki is relentless to keep this under his control as we've all read. I mean, if Capcom put a bid in and was outbidded, you know this guy has alot of passion to keep Neo Geo original.

As much as we all complain about how bad Neo games are, we all spend massive amounts of dollars to buy them anyway, so LIVE ON NEO GEO!!!! Good or bad. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

I assume this is from the same "former SNK employee(s)" source that you got your info from last time. Thanks for the update, TRIEUMINATOR. Any ETA on when they'll start making official announcements? We've already heard something official from Mega Enterprise about MS4, so now (or the near future) is definitely a great time to put it in writing, while there's actually some popular interest in it. Strike while the iron's hot. In fact, you should actually point that out to your source.


Originally posted by Blaine:
<STRONG>And I bet that Capcom was throwing top dollar out there too.

The SNK properties are VERY valuable.</STRONG>

Sorry, Blaine. As much as I (and you, and the rest of us) love SNK's properties and games and characters, I seriously doubt that. SNK's properties aren't the least bit popular outside of arcades or the fan community; certainly not in the U.S. or Europe. I also doubt that Capcom tried all that hard to get SNK's assets; they did say they were going on hiatus from 2D fighting games, and look at what the company has going for it already, without SNK's stuff. Devil May Cry on PS2. Resident Evil on GC. Onimusha 2 on PS2. The continuing Rockman (Mega Man) series on the PS1. There's even this one PS2 game called Maximo which is a remake of Super Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, and even that looks pretty OK. Plus, Capcom has other solid properties waiting in the wings (Dino Crisis, Power Stone, Rival Schools, etc.). Capcom doesn't need SNK's properties to be successful; they're actually doing really well right now.


Originally posted by insaneben:
<STRONG>Yeah! I can't wait to see what Breezasoft has planned down the road now that they own many of the SNK properties. Here's hoping for Kizuna Encounter 2, MOTW 2, Ninja Masters 2, World Heroes X, and the much-fabled Samurai Shodown 5 (among numerous other properties).</STRONG>

Sorry, insaneben... I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you or singling you out here. I'm addressing everyone who's ever said this since 1997: please, drop the "I sure hope they make SS5" shtick. Samurai Shodown wasn't anywhere near as popular in Japan as it was in the U.S. and considering how many horrible crap games have come out bearing the Samurai Shodown name. I personally think that SNK's Samurai Shodown team (I'd assume at least some of them are at Brezza, if not all) simply doesn't know how to make good Samurai Shodown games anymore. (Maybe I just haven't recovered from the trauma of seeing "LLAOYLLAKCUF" in SS4's credits.)

Frankly, I was revolted (maybe not surprised, but revolted) when SNK's closure was announced, and the first thing that many people said was, "uh, does this mean no SS5?" Before you shout me down, consider the series' pedigree up until now, please. (I'll wait.) That's SS3, both SS64 games, and the awful, awful, awful PS1 game.

SNK, sorry I mean, Brezza, has to get smart. I've always had my doubts about oyabun Kawasaki, but if he and his colleagues want to succeed, they've got to play it smart. (To clarify, WE WANT THEM TO SUCCEED THIS TIME. WE WANT THAT.) SNK's two most popular properties are KOF and Metal Slug, and they're both confirmed to continue on the MVS. SNK has shown that it has a consistently creative and stylish take on game and character designs, and does a great job in making game characters that appeal to fnas. However, the company has never really been big on quality control. Here are some examples to support that point: Legend of Success Joe. KoF '96. SS3. Pretty much everything on the Hyper64 other than Buriki, Wild Ambition, and maybe the offroad SUV racing game, whose name escapes me. Also, who could forget Legend of Success Joe?

Brezza, or whatever they call themselves, assuming they are indeed in it for the long run, has to focus on quality over quantity. Fine, only make one Metal Slug game for the next 2 years, but make it completely damn amazing. Put in a bunch of secret levels and easter eggs. Keep people dropping quarters in those Asian arcades (because goodness only knows that arcades are dead in the States). Make KOF biannual... change the damn name if you have to. Discontinue some of the less popular series. (Let's face it guys, we all love Art of Fighting, that series is dead. I know I love the Savage Reign games, but they're dead. However, they could just as well transplant Rosa & Kim Sue Il into KOF, and reinstate Eiji. They even got sprites for Eiji and Sue Il.)

If they're going to make a go of it, they need to make great games... not kind-of-OK games like SS4 or not-that-bad games like Sengoku 3. Games that everyone, not just crazy fans like us, can get behind. And for Christ's sake, they need port them to all the new consoles (and I mean all of them) in a timely fashion and make as much goddamned revenue as possible. It's like I keep saying, fanfiction and fanart don't pay the bills; but selling a bunch of $40 PS2 ports (which is a hell of a lot more affordable than a new AES cart or arcade board) might. Even the scummiest little ROM punk might consider paying $40 for a PS2 port of KOF 2001. Get rid of that whole "oh, the NeoGeo is too expensive" excuse crap.

To recap: KOF 2001 and MS4 (which happen to be SNK's most popular series) are a go on the MVS. Let's make sure we give Brezza/Eolith/Mega/Sun Amusement support by snapping up those MVS boards/carts (and god willing, AES carts... please please please). By now they must've figured out how to cut costs and manufacture carts efficiently (like recycling old cart casings). I hope that these two games sell like hotcakes (at the same exorbitant prices we're used to paying)... maybe they can use whatever profit they get from those games to give their next projects a shot in the arm. Once they're done with that, they have to really put the screws to their QA team (or HIRE a QA team) and make sure all their games are top, top notch, then market the crap out of each game and port each to every single goddamned console. This is what I'm hoping they'll do... I think it's a good, realistic strategy, and it may keep them afloat the second time around, assuming there is one. We can hope that the NeoGeo (and the talented folks behind it) get a second chance, but they need to get it right this time, and we need to all support them.

Lawrence Blood
11-02-2001, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Supreme Gozita:
<STRONG>I just wanna see TWO games: an AOF4(made like MOTW) and a real Fatal fury/aof crossover, nothing like KOF</STRONG>

You know...they started adding AOF chars in Fatal Fury (a kyokugenryu fighter in Garou) They just might make a Garou game and have characters from both AOF and Fatal Fury.

jbeedham
11-02-2001, 11:19 PM
GOOD NEWS!!!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I am so glad Capcom didn't get the rights to SNK stuff. They would have screwed it up so bad.

NeoGeoHybrid
11-02-2001, 11:48 PM
I am so confused! I want SNK or whatever to succeed but at the same time I know that they get what they deserve for bad management. I hope that they can learn from their mistakes. Hate to have been a share holder. I hope that they don't make igs apple touch screen games their main business. Cause if so, were all fkd. I agree with the statement that snk needs to produce games first on the mvs and then 6months later or so on every other system possible. I also think that they could release packs of 5 games per cd on multiple systems and pc with extras like art and music. kof 94-99 etc. A new magazine would be good. Or a better web site. Maybe they could re release all their hits on game boy advance or sell the rights like sega and activision on ps2. I think that they need to slowly pull out of the arcade business though because its almost dead.

aria
11-03-2001, 01:42 AM
Wow, AndyEX, there's a lot to talk about in your post.

I think you're right in saying we'll never see sequels to the more obscure titles (then again, I would have included Sengoku on that list...).

I hope they keep wrangling them over into the KOF series (like how King Lion from Savage Reign/Kizuna was a striker in 2k).

I also agree that Brezza would be smart to get the port going fast. I think SNK started to realize their importance in its twilight.

However, I disagree about SS4. I think it was a game that had enough popularity to warrent a sequel. Now that a few of the characters are getting good exposure in the CvS series, they may have even more reason to put our SS5. I'd say the chances of the game happening are unlikely, but not hopeless (see Sengoku).

I also disagree with you and the QC issues. I think the quality control on the Neo (other than the aformentioned LOSJ and a few earlier games) has been quite decent. These are games designed to be fun enough to munch quarters at arcades, and they, for the most part, work. SS3 was a failed experiment at bringing the series in a new direction, KOF '96, by many accounts, is a fine game. The last few years have seen mostly tip top games.

Still, a fine post and an interesting opinion.

[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: Bobak ]

BRANDI
11-03-2001, 01:44 AM
Hummm... i'm not that positive about this, but... we can just wait and see how things will turn out... <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

rarehero
11-03-2001, 01:53 AM
sweet.
thanks Truiey
great news.
and what was the delay on this
since SNK went down?
a week?
half a week? <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
kawasaki sure does has his ass in gear.
i cant wait to hear about these new games
especially cant wait for a SS5
man o man...
kof 2k1 here we go.....

chohan
11-03-2001, 02:42 AM
Yes! great news! But will they be making there games for the AES tho? Or MVS only? Either way, we should be happy that there are comming new Neo Geo titles <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0">

4-5 titles in 8 months is like allot for the Neo, good news!

Cho

EX_Andy
11-03-2001, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Bobak:
<STRONG>Wow, AndyEX, there's a lot to talk about in your post.</STRONG>

This is an important topic for us all. Lots to say about it.


<STRONG>I think you're right in saying we'll never see sequels to the more obscure titles (then again, I would have included Sengoku on that list...). </STRONG>

Those were just examples. Yes, Sengoku isn't a good way to invest development resources either. Neither is Super Sidekicks/Neo Cup, because look what those games are up against (Virtua Striker in arcades, EA Sports FIFA on home consoles). None of the ADK games could or should be realistically continued, not even World Heroes, as much as I love World Heroes. If they turn out a mediocre World Heroes 3 or World Heroes Perfect Hyper Special Edition, not only will that game be a commercial failure (it will, trust me), it'll also represent time and manhours that could've been spent making a marquee title (like a Metal Slug or KOF) that much better. Also, I'm pretty sure most of ADK's Team Jigocky (the Ninja Master's guys) just got swallowed up by SNK (same way Nazca did) and worked on Last Blade... there's a whole lot of the former game in the latter.


<STRONG>
I hope they keep wrangling them over into the KOF series (like how King Lion from Savage Reign/Kizuna was a striker in 2k).</STRONG>

Yes, that's the easiest way to do it. The AOF series can live on through strikers, or just retouched versions of the existing KOF versions of the AOF sprites ('95/'2000 Eiji, '96 Mr. Big, '96 Krauser, etc.). I say make all of them playable, myself. From the sound of things, that's exactly what Eolith has done with 2001 (no crazy striker-only characters though, from what I can tell.)


<STRONG>
I also agree that Brezza would be smart to get the port going fast. I think SNK started to realize their importance in its twilight.
</STRONG>

Yes. Unfortunately the DC is on its way out. The "new SNK," if they are in fact for real, will have to get friendly with the PS2, GameCube, and Xbox, and fast.


<STRONG>
However, I disagree about SS4. I think it was a game that had enough popularity to warrent a sequel. Now that a few of the characters are getting good exposure in the CvS series, they may have even more reason to put our SS5. I'd say the chances of the game happening are unlikely, but not hopeless (see Sengoku).
</STRONG>

Two characters: Haohmaru and Nakoruru, neither of which is especially popular (Nakoruru was overpowered in the first game, though). Haohmaru is boring as hell to play in CVS2 (he's all about his strong slash... his Kogetsuzan has zero priority). Anyway, like I said, this "new SNK," if it does in fact exist and does plan to go forward with SNK properties, will have to focus on making one great game, then the next great game. SS4 was not a great game, and though it was popular among the NeoGeo fan community, it wasn't much of a mainstream arcade hit; Alpha 2 was out around that time, (early 97) if I'm not mistaken; so was Puzzle Fighter.

I'm not going to argue about or get too far into why SS4 wasn't a great game (it was actually a piece of crap), because I literally argued about that game for years, and frankly, I'm rather sick of arguing about it. Suffice it to say that it breaks down, badly, in competitive play... I played that game a lot in arcades against human opponents, much more than most people I argued with (many of whom only played against the CPU on their home systems, and simply didn't know anything about playing SS4 against real people). In competitive play, SS4 was all about overpowered scrub characters with cheap gimmicks. If you played the game in arcades, competitively, A LOT, you know what I'm talking about. If you didn't play the game in arcades, competitively, A LOT, you don't. Plus, there were the cut animation frames (to make the game friendlier to port to the NeoCD/PS1), 14-hit chain combos, zillion-hit special moves (remember bust Ukyo's 36-hit Snowfall Slash?), and generic Mortal Kombat fatalities were... well, OK, went into more detail than I wanted to. Sorry, but I'm going to stop there. I realize that sounds really arbitrary, but I'm not going to get any further into it. (If you own it, play it, and enjoy it, more power to you.)

If Brezza/SNK/whoever were to make a truly great Samurai Shodown game that played magnificently, that everyone knew about, that everyone put quarters into, and that everyone later bought for their PS2/GameCube/Xbox, I'd be overjoyed. But given the series' track record, I say that's a heck of a lot less likely than a good KOF ('96 is the only really bad one) or Metal Slug (there hasn't been a loser in the Metal Slug series yet!). If this "new SNK" thing really takes off, and KOF 2001 and MS4 do well enough to keep them going, I'd think (and hope) that the company's next project would be a Mark of the Wolves sequel. All of that game's endings beg for a sequel (Yamazaki trashing Marco's dojo, Gato & his father, Freeman giving Kevin the slip, Rock joining Kain). Also, MOTW is easily one of the best-looking games for the Neo, if not the best. They got the existing sprites, frames of animation, and basic game engine, and it's all solid. They can build on it, add new characters (like a 60-year-old Yamazaki, a 40-year old Andy who's now Hokutomaru's rival, Gato's presumably aged father, a 50-year old Kim, etc. etc. etc. etc.), whip up some new background stages, and have what should be a very good game with relatively little time and effort (as opposed to making a brand-new game from scratch).


<STRONG>
I also disagree with you and the QC issues. I think the quality control on the Neo (other than the aformentioned LOSJ and a few earlier games) has been quite decent. These are games designed to be fun enough to munch quarters at arcades, and they, for the most part, work. SS3 was a failed experiment at bringing the series in a new direction, KOF '96, by many accounts, is a fine game. The last few years have seen mostly tip top games.
</STRONG>

KOF '96 by my account (lots of competitive play in arcades against human opponents) is the absolute worst game in the KOF series, hands-down. That game wasn't balanced at all, and was completely geared for scrubs. CD attacks were way too fast and powerful, and for the most part, the strongest characters were also the easiest to use, because they had easy-to-do patterns they could repeat over and over. Chin: lie down, backflip. Repeat. Mature: CD, qcb+K, repeat. Iori: f,d,df+A, repeat, or if you're feeling 'skillful,' do his infinite (standing C -&gt; hcf + C -&gt; walk forward half a step, repeat). Clark: dodge into throw into mash'n'roll elbow finisher. Choi: Jump C, low A/C, charge d,u + P = 66% damage, unmaxed (fully powered up, it did closer to 80%). Chang: guess.

Looks like I went into more detail than I wanted to here, as well. Suffice it to say that '96 was all about CD attacks and overpowered scrub characters; if you played it A LOT competitively in arcades, you know what I'm talking about. If you didn't play '96 competitively A LOT in arcades, you don't.

Also, I don't think that '96 and SS4 were the only crappy (or lousy, or mediocre) Neo games in recent years; to be fair, several of the worse ones were from 3rd parties, but they still stank. Puzzle de Pon, Neo Mr. Do, and Super Tag Battle were all various shades of crap. RBS and RB2 arguably weren't too hot either, and KOF '99 was weak. Sengoku 3 is, let's face it, poor.

None of that stuff is going to cut it, especially if this "new SNK," assuming they're for real, does in fact get serious about being a 3rd-party developer for the new home systems. Try putting up your favorite Neo games against the likes of high-profile, high-production-value games like Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry, Halo, Super Smash Bros Melee, Grand Theft Auto 3, and Tony Hawk 3, because that's what Brezza's new games will be competing with. RBS against MGS2? Neo Cup '98 against Tony Hawk 3? Blazing Star against Halo? Uh-uh, guys. Not even close. SNK/Brezza will get slaughtered if they don't come correct this time.

Jedeco2
11-03-2001, 03:03 AM
Hm, I guess I was right about a company obtaining the rights of NEO-GEO, now excuse me while I change into some clean underwear........ <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

smokey
11-03-2001, 03:15 AM
And Pocket games!!!!!

baller99
11-03-2001, 04:06 AM
kof 96 a really bad game?the worst in the series?
ss4 a piece of crap?

go play pikachu on your gameboy

Peter

Fran
11-03-2001, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by baller99:
<STRONG>kof 96 a really bad game?the worst in the series?
ss4 a piece of crap?

go play pikachu on your gameboy

Peter</STRONG>


heh

the worst kofs are 99 and 2000


we all know


sam 4.....

hmmmmmmmm


it aint shit,but certainly not a mile stone eh?

who cares


i want NEO BOMB JACK LEGENDS

Herzog Drei
11-03-2001, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by Lawrence Blood:
<STRONG>Sweet! I hope they make Garou 2 with Andy in it.

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Lawrence Blood ]</STRONG>

And Mai,too,plz!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Herzog Drei
11-03-2001, 06:10 AM
They should put her into some sort of cryogenic sleep-though.. <IMG SRC="smilies/spock.gif" border="0">
(like Nina in tekken 3)
I dont like the thought of seeing her at the age of 50.... <IMG SRC="smilies/smirk.gif" border="0">

insaneben
11-03-2001, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by EX Andy: "Sorry, insaneben... I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you or singling you out here. I'm addressing everyone who's ever said this since 1997: please, drop the "I sure hope they make SS5" shtick."

Hey, I can always dream... they did make a third Sengoku, after all. Furthermore, as long as there's hope, there'll always be people who want to see sequels to their favorite games, so I doubt anyone (myself included) will be dropping the "Me wantee SS5" schtick anytime soon.

Power Geyser
11-03-2001, 10:52 AM
If this is true they have to work really hard to make their games more appalling to people that aren't fans of SNKs trademarks. The only way to survive in the world of technology is by evolving and SNK died just because of that they stopped in time making the games look old and unattractive to the casual gamer.
They should rework the games from the beginning, at list graphically, so it would look better, get a new board (Capcom has changed 3 or 4 times of boards)and they should create a division to make other types of games like RPGs, survival horrors and stuff like that sells really well and could give them some profit.
They have to do something to make people choose a 2D fighter over a 3D one,or at least thinking of doing so, if not it's just a matter of time until it goes bankrupt again.

Endtime
11-03-2001, 11:20 AM
I want more new AES titles dammit! <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0">

Parallax
11-03-2001, 11:26 AM
<IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0"> This is just to sweet to fathom! <IMG SRC="smilies/drool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0">

smokey
11-03-2001, 11:30 AM
What about the NGPC

Innovator
11-03-2001, 12:41 PM
Ex Andy's comments make me think of undying love I have for these games even with their faults. Was KOF'96 a good 2p game experience at high levels of play? Not really, but it's all it's features of other things than made me a KOF fanatic (I remember playing '96 and thinking "this game will be truly bad-ass if they work out the kinks"). Was SS ever a really good 2p game at high levels? I only really got to witness Sogetsu cheese at my local arcade in SS4 but is SS2 that much better? At the least SS2 had balance issues. My point is that I love these games almost unconditionally as probably most of the people who own a Neo. My feelings for some games are conditional (like Tekken) and if they fuck up I'm out but this usually isn't the case for SNK games. If Brezza/S-DNA/whoever makes a game with stick figures and calls it Samurai Shodown I will play it because SS is my heart. Love is irrational, and I will await any SS sequel (especially 2D) with open arms.
So please when you say SS4/KOF'96 is utter shit please say in high level 2p mode.

Now that the cheezy stuff is out of the way I can discuss what the Neo SNK will need to survive in the 2002 game market:

1.Branch out into 3D and put some eggs in a couple of new baskets. Capcom had the right idea of being multi-faceted and like the days of NES they're making most of the scratch on non-fighting games. Dabble in RPG's, MGS style games, and online stuff. Try to use the Jet Set Radio cell shading 3D technique in future stuff.

2.Using existing hardware like Naomi 2 to make games. Don't waste millions of dollars making Neo Geo 128 and just make games.

3.Be a whore like Sega and jump on every system's dick. Get some powerful friends like Square did with Sony.

4.Obtain some relatively cheap licenses from some slightly fading/cult followed anime or manga and make a game. Something like a Ninja Scroll beat-em-up or something that could have the potential to blow up in a foreign market like Cowboy Bebop in the US.

5.Make more use of popular characters by putting them in more spin-off type games. Revamp the classics like Ikari Warriors in a 2K style game.

(Now it gets hard)

6.Slow down the fighting game production and only concentrate on the marquee titles. After KOF'02 stop making KOF for a year or two concentrate on home system projects as arcades are dying out.

7.MVS can have games but it shouldn't be the main item of focus anymore. Maybe bring out cheap 2nd string fighters that people have forgotten or old school style games. Limited AES releases for the hardcore.

The last two points are hard for me because as much I want MVS/AES games forever I know SNK would better off concentrating on new hardware. In the US arcades are hurting bad and they're on the downswing in other places. 2D anything is a hard sell these days on anyone but the tried and true and 3D is here to stay. It's probably best they emulate Capcom and once a blue moon release a 2D fighting games on MVS or otherwise. Sure, I'd want things to stay the same way forever but they gotta eat.

steveold
11-03-2001, 01:09 PM
Hey Andy, you made some really good points/thoughts.

&lt;&lt;&lt; None of the ADK games could or should be realistically continued, not even World Heroes, as much as I love World Heroes. If they turn out a mediocre World Heroes 3 or World Heroes Perfect Hyper Special Edition, not only will that game be a commercial failure (it will, trust me), it'll also represent time and manhours that could've been spent making a marquee title (like a Metal Slug or KOF) that much better. &gt;&gt;&gt;

I object. While yes, they could spend time making a marquee title like MS or KOF that much better, I think right now ANYTHING is fair game.
And if a WH3 did come out or was announced say... in the next week or so... I don't really think it will be a commercial failure as long as it's done well and receives the proper foreword of advertisement.

Remember that EGM were BIG, BIG fans of the games... I'm sure they'd do a nice little section tribute that could help launch the release.

As for SS5, like Ben... I'm hoping for that too. I want to see Gen-An and Wan-Fu come back.

CHRiZ-77
11-03-2001, 03:37 PM
YEAH...

what fantastic news... <IMG SRC="smilies/makeface.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/makeface.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/makeface.gif" border="0">
Hope that they publish any game on NG/MVS!!!
Im waiting for "Magician Lord II" for a long time... <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0">
It seems that MotW II, AOF IV and MotW II comes reality... <IMG SRC="smilies/smirk.gif" border="0">

Sifl
11-03-2001, 04:17 PM
Good points ex_andy, but you forgot something,
RBS and Blazing Star kick ass.

EX_Andy
11-03-2001, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Innovator:
<STRONG>Ex Andy's comments make me think of undying love I have for these games even with their faults. Was KOF'96 a good 2p game experience at high levels of play?</STRONG>

If you played the game competitively, you know what I mean. If you didn't play KOF '96 competitively in arcades, you don't. Like I said.


<STRONG>Not really, but it's all it's features of other things than made me a KOF fanatic (I remember playing '96 and thinking "this game will be truly bad-ass if they work out the kinks"). Was SS ever a really good 2p game at high levels? I only really got to witness Sogetsu cheese at my local arcade in SS4</STRONG>

If that's the worst you saw, you didn't see as much, or play as much, or experience as much as I did. (SS4 Slash Sougetsu was just the tip of the iceberg.) Like I said.


<STRONG>
but is SS2 that much better? At the least SS2 had balance issues. My point is that I love these games almost unconditionally as probably most of the people who own a Neo. My feelings for some games are conditional (like Tekken) and if they fuck up I'm out but this usually isn't the case for SNK games. If Brezza/S-DNA/whoever makes a game with stick figures and calls it Samurai Shodown I will play it because SS is my heart. Love is irrational, and I will await any SS sequel (especially 2D) with open arms.</STRONG>

You and the relatively few other hardcore Samurai Shodown fans. I know you think there are a lot of you out there, but think about it this way: in comparison, how many Metal Gear Solid fans do you think there are? How many Resident Evil fans do you think there are? How many fans of wrestling games do you think there are?

So they turn out a mediocre or crappy Samurai game. Maybe a few hundred, who knows, a few thousand copies might get sold. That isn't anywhere near what console games need to sell to even turn a profit. They've got to buckle down and make a top-drawer, no-excuses, A-title that anyone, hardcore fan or no, can enjoy and will actually consider buying. Given the SS series' pedigree, it's not nearly as safe a bet as Metal Slug, KOF, or Fatal Fury.


<STRONG>
So please when you say SS4/KOF'96 is utter shit please say in high level 2p mode.
</STRONG>

I did say something like that, and you should have already seen it... especially judging from your comments (which are pretty much regurgitated versions of what I said). But those games didn't break down in "high level 2p play" either... they were both scrub games through and through. If you've ever gone up against a human player with a team of Iori/Chin/Mature in '96 or a halfway smart scrub abusing SS4 Galford (slash or bust), SS4 Tam Tam, or a full-on turtling SS4 Amakusa, you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't, then you don't know what I'm talking about.

[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: EX_Andy ]

[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: EX_Andy ]

EX_Andy
11-03-2001, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Steve:
<STRONG>Hey Andy, you made some really good points/thoughts.

&lt;&lt;&lt; None of the ADK games could or should be realistically continued, not even World Heroes, as much as I love World Heroes. If they turn out a mediocre World Heroes 3 or World Heroes Perfect Hyper Special Edition, not only will that game be a commercial failure (it will, trust me), it'll also represent time and manhours that could've been spent making a marquee title (like a Metal Slug or KOF) that much better. &gt;&gt;&gt;

I object. While yes, they could spend time making a marquee title like MS or KOF that much better, I think right now ANYTHING is fair game.
And if a WH3 did come out or was announced say... in the next week or so... I don't really think it will be a commercial failure as long as it's done well and receives the proper foreword of advertisement.</STRONG>

Steve, I love World Heroes and for the longest time after I got my WHP home cart, the only game I wanted to see was WH3. But unless the series were to get completely redrawn, overhauled even, World Heroes just can't compete. Outside of this community, no one knows World Heroes, except for a few arcade players who may remember it as being "that dumb SF ripoff." I love the series' goofy sense of humor, but that's one of the things that makes it less attractive for most people (for instance, I know a few people who would literally turn around and run away from the MVS if they saw Rasputin's Hero DM from WHP).

If these "new SNK" guys get themselves on solid footing, turn out some very solid titles that do extremely well, then yeah, I'd love to see another World Heroes game. Otherwise, they can't really afford the time or resources to experiment as much as they used to... they've got to turn out some A-class stuff right now and make a real name for themselves among the mainstream. They tried being a company that only catered to a niche audience (arcade-goers and collectors who are insane enough to pay $300 per game), and they failed at it, miserably.


<STRONG>
Remember that EGM were BIG, BIG fans of the games... I'm sure they'd do a nice little section tribute that could help launch the release.
</STRONG>

HA HA HA! EGM! HA HA HA! Sorry, I'm not laughing at you, Steve. I'm laughing at EGM. That magazine isn't significant, and their staff has also changed quite a bit over the years, anyway. If we're lucky, and the "new SNK" actually does make a comeback, the most we could reasonably expect EGM to do would be to steal a bunch of fan-written FAQs and sell it in an "Ultimate Fighting Game Special" issue (like they did before).

ShinIoriYagami
11-04-2001, 11:45 AM
EGM has changed over the years'.
seriously.'

NeoGML
11-04-2001, 08:49 PM
Well EX_Andy, you must know your shit. you raise some really interesting points.

I for one haven't played '96 extensively at all (only played it once, actually), and i didn't know it was so riddled with infinites. as for control... it wasn't "Crap". you just had to be really really precise in your motions in the pre-97 games.

SS4, i can't really comment on either, as i haven't played it extensively, much less in 2P mode.

RB2/RBS were made by SNK, weren't they? or was that not related to the 3rd party issue?

and how long have you been playing SNK fighters?

EX_Andy
11-05-2001, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by NeoGML:
<STRONG>Well EX_Andy, you must know your shit. you raise some really interesting points.

I for one haven't played '96 extensively at all (only played it once, actually), and i didn't know it was so riddled with infinites. as for control... it wasn't "Crap". you just had to be really really precise in your motions in the pre-97 games. </STRONG>

'96 wasn't as bogged down by infinites as SS3 was, though it did have quite a few (many of them were weird and some were actually kind of difficult to pull off). '96 was about overpowered scrub characters and instantaneous, high-priority CD attacks. Never said I had any problems performing any moves in '96. I know all about that game's control (the main issue was that some folks had problems performing half-circle moves), and I got along just fine, myself.

'97's control scheme (the infamous "shortcuts," which most people criticized because they didn't understand them) was completely unique, and it was scrapped in '98, though KOF's control was largely left the same after that.


<STRONG>SS4, i can't really comment on either, as i haven't played it extensively, much less in 2P mode. </STRONG>

Consider yourself lucky. Uh-oh, wait... I think I'm going to get flamed for that remark.


<STRONG>
RB2/RBS were made by SNK, weren't they? or was that not related to the 3rd party issue?</STRONG>

Yes, they were absolutely made by SNK, for SNK's own NeoGeo hardware. That makes them "first-party software." Doesn't necessarily make them competitive games, though. The third-party issue I brought up was that SNK/Brezza needs to get onto other video game platforms (PS2, Xbox, GameCube). When they start making games on other companies' (Sony, MS, Nintendo) video game systems, that'll make them a "third-party" developer. It will also hopefully make them enough money to not have to declare bankruptcy again.

Frankly, I thought both RBS and RB2 were very shallow games (each character had two, maybe 3 good chain combos, and that was basically all you would do in either game). Unfortunately, Wild Ambition was basically just RB2 with crappy polygonal graphics. Mark of the Wolves, however, is a great game, and is easily the kind of thing I'd put on even footing with other, newer games on other systems. What I was getting at earlier is that in order to appreciate a lot of SNK's other games, you have to make excuses for them. You can't really say that SS2 was a perfect fighting game because of Ukyo. That's the difference between a fan and a regular, mainstream consumer. (A fan is willing to overlook minor or even major flaws.) But if SNK/Brezza makes flawed games that only freaks like us can really appreciate, they're sunk. Again. On the other hand, quality, top-notch games like Mark of the Wolves and the Slugs are games that don't need any excuses; they're great as they are. That's we need to see from these guys... top-notch, quality stuff that'll actually sell.

Of course, SNK/Brezza will also need to get on the ball about marketing their games. It's not just "if you make it, they will come." The Dreamcast (which was an awesome system with a ton of great games) is a painfully obvious example of that.


<STRONG>
and how long have you been playing SNK fighters?</STRONG>

As long as they've been making 'em.

Robert
11-05-2001, 05:56 AM
This is fantastic! If brezzasoft can produce great games, it would be awesome.

trieuminator
11-07-2001, 01:25 PM
I've recently found out news that Mr. Kawasaki is working "indirectly" with Brezza for certain titles, but will not take over that company.

The fact still stands that he is working on starting up a "new" company; however, it will not be Brezza as previously announced. There is some information regarding the formation of the "new" Neo operation, which only the top former exec's of SNK have knowledge of at this moment, which they are withholding. There were some discussions with Brezza, but that has fallen through.

Remember, the important confirmed information is that the Neo rights remain within his (actually his sister-in-law's name) power and that future Neo games will be released (at least 4 more), so whatever the name is that he chooses, be confident for some great titles.

I'm digging for some more info and will post when I receive it. The saga continues.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: TRIEUMINATOR ]

LWK
11-07-2001, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by ShinIoriYagami:
<STRONG>EGM has changed over the years'.
seriously.'</STRONG>

Damn straight they have, they used to be such a kick ass mag back in the day.
Biased as hell now.