WARNING: Ray Young/Arcade

SuperGun · May 31, 2002

Gentlemen,

It brings me great displeasure to have to do this. But sadly I have been forced to. I am hereby FLAMING Ray Young & Arcade.

1) I would like for everyone here to be informed regarding what WAS (until now) top secret.
2) I would like for everyone here to see the rude and immature things Ray Young said to me, as well as to see how poorly he thinks about all of us in general.

It began through his forums and continued through emails.

I must say that I never thought I would say this, but I actually now hate arcade MORE then any other "companies" in our neo community. With this said, please read on. Thank you, Billy

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
THE HEADLINE

Ray Young aquired two proto-carts back in April of this year. The two carts were GhostLop and Pair Pair Wars. I discussed with him what his plans would be and he was "somewhat" cooperative...well, so I thought.
He had mentioned to me that his intention WAS to "mass-produce" and "release" these protos to the community for public sale. He also confirmed that I was correct on the NGH numbers of said products being NGH-228 & NGH-226 respectfully. However despite multiple requests via email of my asking him for screenshots, he never came through on them.

Fast forward to the last couple of days.

I began sending Ray some more emails. He ignored them all. I then joined his forums and asked him there for information, and ONLY THEN did he finally reply. Here is a summary of all that he had to say. EVERYTHING here is 100% direct quotes from him. You will now see what kind of person he is.

RAY YOUNG:
There will be no new products for the North American market. We do have a few things planned for release in Japan only, 2 of which will be "Proto" releases. There have been no "Legal" or any other restrictions placed on any of our products as we are very careful to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" before we start any project.
As I have said before we are moving out of the North American market per/se so that we may devote more time to other ventures. Just "like anything else in this world" the name of the game is supply and demand. As you know the Neo being a niche market the supply is there but the demand is sadly lacking.

you must understand there is no "neo community". What there is are buyers and sellers-period! That being said, you must remember this is strictly business for us nothing more nothing less. We treat all our clients with respect and we deliver what we say we will. But at the end of the day it's still only business for us.
Our moving out of of the North American market is very logical when you think about it.
As I told you before, we like to keep a very low profile and we don't make waves for anyone. We are a small company by today's standards just doing what we can to make a profit.

I will speak to the other parties concerned as they may not want to send anything before the release. But I will state your concerns as well as your request to them. Please realize that as we move forward I am not the only one involved now.

I talk to you the same way I talk to everyone Billy. Nothing personal Billy, but as far as I am concerned this matter is now closed. We will not under any circumstances provide you with any further information regarding the Neo. Pitt: Get lost! is the last thing I have to say to you.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

In the end, Ray Young is a selfish bastard who could care less about any of us. All he gives a shit about is making money. He has screwed us in this deal and he cannot be trusted. Just like bigbear says...This is my "warning" to the community. You can choose to ignore it, but if you do, and you get burned, then you deserve it.
Billy

TheBigBB · May 31, 2002

Are those games unreleased games that only he has?

Spectre · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by SuperGun:
However despite multiple requests via email of my asking him for screenshots, he never came through on them.

Fast forward to the last couple of days.

I began sending Ray some more emails. He ignored them all. I then joined his forums and asked him there for information, and ONLY THEN did he finally reply.<hr></blockquote>

I don't pretend to know much about what you're talking about here, but it sounds to me like the guy is being perfectly reasonable. It's up to him whether he releases these games or not, and I doubt you're going to convince him otherwise by spamming his mailbox with repeated requests. I wouldn't say telling somebody who keeps pestering to you "get lost" is being rude and immature, I'd say thats being quite restrained.

If theres more to this, do tell...

NeoTurfMasta · May 31, 2002

I'm confused...

You're pissed because he didnt show you pics/screenshots of his protos?

and

Becuase !Arcade! is not selling directly to the US any longer?

and

Because he is in it for the money and not the "Good of the Community" or whatever.

hmmmm....

All three of those are retarded to be pissed about.

So what if he doesnt want to show his shit to you. Why is it your right to see them?

So what if he decides to release to Japan only, its not like you cant get them from Nikke or someone over there. This one shouldnt even be an issue.

So what if he is in it for the money, if there was no money in it you wouldnt see Shawn, 16-bit or NBM selling shit on here.

What exactly are you trying to warn us about, that he's an Ass Hole? Even if that were the case, it doesnt make him a bad buisness person.

Anyways... I have had many deals with !Arcade! and they have all been 100%.

the_move · May 31, 2002

In one case he´s right.

There is no REAL community. It is just a scene of people, who have the same interest and people like him like to make profit out of it.

And if he thinks something would not do any profit, he won´t do it simply.

Just Egoism! Hard egoism, which is also an obstacle for any kind of community.

buster_broon · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by dmhawkmoon:
Are those games unreleased games that only he has?<hr></blockquote>

I dont see what the problem it.

From my dealing with !Arcade! and on a personal level with Ray - he is spot on

I recently bought a Neo Turfmasters Converted cart from a member of the Neo community and he told me it was converted by !arcade!

E-mailed Ray and he was more than helpful to aid me in all my questions and since he has only converted 1 Turfmasters cart - he was very helpful

Ray is in a business - businesses has to make money to succeed and Ray also mentioned to me that he may branch to the UK because he knows of the companies like Ravensgames + Telegames which still charge 200GBP for Art of Fighting, so in the end it may be a better move for everybody

Its true what he says: "the name of the game is supply and demand. As you know the Neo being a niche market the supply is there but the demand is sadly lacking" Not everybody wants 2d old skool like he said its a Niche

Every e-mail i have sent to Ray in the past few months has been answered very quickly and it was also very friendly

Did you post this within NEOGEOUSA?????

Ray is a member of this forum as well, and there are alot of guys who have dealt with Ray and are totally happy

If Ray has to move his business to other climates - so be it at least he is staying with the Neo and not binning everything completely and starting with other ventures

Finally Ray quotes 'treats buyers with respect and deliver what they say they will'

Thats all a buyer want - to get a decent level of service and get what he pays for

<img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" /> <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> <img src="graemlins/angry.gif" border="0" alt="[Angry]" />

Sorry kid - your a stupidass <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: buster_broon ]

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: buster_broon ]

Daisuke Jigen · May 31, 2002

I'm gonna keep my opinion to myself.

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Daisuke Jigen ]

Katsu · May 31, 2002

On Topic: This guy is a business man, and his reply to you was completely reasonable and professional. He's perfectly within his rights to choose not to release the protos to North America.

Off Topic: NeoTurfMasta... do you play Q3? The DDK avatar and 'ownz j00' l337sp34k seem very familiar to me and the 'other' community that I'm actually a much bigger part of. Just don't say you play CS. Blech.

Makismo · May 31, 2002

What does he mean by not selling to the U.S. market? That doesn't mean we can't buy stuff from him anymore...does it? I may want to get Strikers 1945 from him and it would suck if I couldn't. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[Crying]" />

Blaine · May 31, 2002

Just a statement:

Aquiring proto carts is a sound business move.

Think about it. What would sell more than a Neo game you can't get under any circumstance right now?

No roms, no bootlegs...nothing.

As far as his statements are concerned, I'm not taken a back at all by them.

His attitude is just that, his.

If anyone ever thought that !arcade! was thier friend because they sell you games, then they're in for a dose of reality.

As far as there being no such thing as a 'scene', that there are only buyers and sellers, that's just a narrow minded business view.

By that logic there are no communities at all, only commerce. That's the only thing that surprised me was to what extent his business-mindset went.

I'm an american and a capitalist pretty much by default, but if there's one thing I hate is greed.

Doing something only for the money is definately a way to survive, but being blinded by it so that you can't see what goes on is truely sad.

If there's no community, then explain to me why Evil Wasabi calls me when he gets to Pittsburgh?

Never once was a financial transaction made between us.

What about Daisuke Jigen? I needed an RF switch for my Saturn and he gave me one. Gave...didn't ask for shipping or anything.

Why is that? It's because we're friends, we share an interest that we actively participate in. We have our own microcosm. We have our definition of what consitutes News and even set up our own concept of morality, even if no one can ever agree on what that is.

You can buy something from a total stranger in the Selling section and be reasonably safe in that transaction, more so than any other place I can readily think of including eBay.

That, good people...is a community. There are sales going on but there is a trust there as well. A common bond, in it's basest form a community is united by it's geographical location.

We just so happen to be united by hunks of resistors, circuit boards and chips.

Doesn't make it any less of a vaild bond.

I have no anger for them, only pity...if Ray is indicitve of thier mindset then they're missing out on some good times. Best of luck hope you guys get as much money as you want.

Just my opinion.

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Blaine ]

NeoTurfMasta · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by Katsu:

Off Topic: NeoTurfMasta... do you play Q3? The DDK avatar and 'ownz j00' l337sp34k seem very familiar to me and the 'other' community that I'm actually a much bigger part of. Just don't say you play CS. Blech.<hr></blockquote>

I used to, but havent in a long time. No CS either. Sorry. This other guy you know obviously has great taste

Blaine · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by NeoTurfMasta:
I used to, but havent in a long time. No CS either. Sorry. This other guy you know obviously has great taste <hr></blockquote>

I never could get into CounterStrike.

I don't know why, not a bad game, just not for me.

Now TFC...I always love a good game of TFC .

SuperGun · May 31, 2002

It would be impossible for me to explain this entire thing from its start to its finish. Those of us that have been around since the beginning would simply understand, however most everyone that is around now-a-days is a newbee and a gamer and does not know nor care to know about the past and which lessons have been learned as well as which people have been burned.

Probably the only concept that I might be able to get across here is that people like Shawn (neo-geo.com) treat their customers with RESPECT and as PEOPLE. People like Ray (arcade) treat their customers like SHIT and as NUMBERS.

Lastly, regardless of what you may all think, there are only TWO kinds of people in this community...those who HELP and those who HINDER. Ray Young has become a MASSIVE hinderance. He is literally acting just exactly as ANNOYING and IMMATURE as NGF in regards to the protos they "CLAIM" to own. WHY? That's all I keep asking...WHY?

I will NEVER understand WHAT THE FUCK is so "complicated" with a SIMPLE FUCKING PICTURE request. Do you see me, Shawn, or Trieuminator holding back and not showing the pics that we get? No, of course not! That is silly and immature. But some people like Ray seem to have the need to place themselves on pedestals and claim the pics & info to be "secret". Whatever, idiots like that need to GET FUCKING REAL.
Billy

Blaine · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by SuperGun:
That is silly and immature. But some people like Ray seem to have the need to place themselves on pedestals and claim the pics & info to be "secret". Whatever, idiots like that need to GET FUCKING REAL.
Billy<hr></blockquote>

I'm not pro or anti-!arcade!, I'm only curious.

I know you're big into prototypes, it's an interest you have but why do you honestly care so much?

I'm not trying to argue with you or anything, I genuinly want to know.

Spectre · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by Katsu:
Off Topic: NeoTurfMasta... do you play Q3? The DDK avatar and 'ownz j00' l337sp34k seem very familiar to me and the 'other' community that I'm actually a much bigger part of. Just don't say you play CS. Blech.<hr></blockquote>

Katsu i 0wn j00 u n00b.

<a href="http://www.vGo.org.uk" target="_blank">www.vGo.org.uk</a>

Spectre · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by SuperGun:
I will NEVER understand WHAT THE FUCK is so "complicated" with a SIMPLE FUCKING PICTURE request.<hr></blockquote>

Fair point, if he was a nice guy and a fellow collector and enthusiast then one would hope he would take some grabs for you. But the reality is that he's not, so it's probably not worth getting worked up about m8.

Oh and I agree with Blaine's comments about the community. I've not been here very long at all, but it's obvious to me that theres more to this whole 'scene' than just a bunch of people buying and selling games, and I've already met several friendly people willing to help me out.

rarehero · May 31, 2002

i m really not sure what your pissed about.
if the man had a hundred real metal slugs
and he wanted to use the inserts for toilet paper
then thats his business.
much less what he does with his aquired protocarts.
i ve heard how arcade doesnt cater to some people.
they deal with alot of people so i can see why
they would want to protect themselves.
but its their business.
if they filter out who they deal with thats their
problem.
and it may not always be because they are l33t
as it may be easy to assume.
but i dont know.
of the people that do deal with them and that i know
i only heard good things.
so whatever.

SuperGun · May 31, 2002

I am not upset at all by the question. The reason I care (and have always cared) so much is because I do so in the interest of the people. I have been into and collected for many other systems and I have seen some very sad things happen due to protos falling into the wrong hands. The pain from that kind of thing is UNBEARABLE to me which is why I do the most I can to prevent it. In the end, and what is the most ironic about it all, is that I do so selfLESSly and yet for some odd reason it is not seen that way and is nevertheless somehow incorrectly interpretted.
Billy

rarehero · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by SuperGun:
I am not upset at all by the question. The reason I care (and have always cared) so much is because I do so in the interest of the people. I have been into and collected for many other systems and I have seen some very sad things happen due to protos falling into the wrong hands. The pain from that kind of thing is UNBEARABLE to me which is why I do the most I can to prevent it. In the end, and what is the most ironic about it all, is that I do so selfLESSly and yet for some odd reason it is not seen that way and is nevertheless somehow incorrectly interpretted.
Billy<hr></blockquote>

well thats admirable enough.
why not just wait for when he has the games
mass produced like he said.
maybe they re in a business clause.
maybe they arent at liberty to make any announcements.
some times its better to have patience about these
things
i m sure if arcade really wanted to do anything youd
be hearing about it sooner or later.
i d be curious to learn about ghostloop myself.

Atro · May 31, 2002

Ray was rude with you. That's true.

But i have to say that Ray Young is a very cool guy, I've won a World Heroes 2 US AES cart from him at ebay. After he'd received my payment, he sent the material to me. When I opened the box it was an MVS World Heroes 2. I told him that it wasn't the item that I had bid on.
He said that he would send the AES cart to me and that I should keep the MVS cart as a gift to cover the shit he did. He was a truly nice gentleman, but I never thought that he could be so rude with you like this. Did you had offended him in any of your emails? <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />

the_move · May 31, 2002

I wonder, what those proto-games are anyway.

I preordered one of !arcade!´s Prehistoric Isle 2 converted carts, and Ray was very polite and even offered me to pay the cart in rates, if I cannot afford the whole cash at ones plus I can do it via bank transfer coz I do not have any creditcards or paypal.

TheBigBB · May 31, 2002

hey buster_broon, why did you quote me and say all that stuff? I was just wondering if these games are games that no one has ever seen before... I guess from reading this thread that the answer is "yes".
Maybe the games are awful or something... I think people would pay TONS of money for them, though....

Spectre · May 31, 2002

Originally posted by dmhawkmoon:
hey buster_broon, why did you quote me and say all that stuff? I was just wondering if these games are games that no one has ever seen before... I guess from reading this thread that the answer is "yes".<hr></blockquote>

Yeah they're prototypes - ie games that were 99% finished but were never released for one reason or another and only a prototype cartidge exists.

Tiptonium · May 31, 2002

Supergun, what is the purpose of your post? Looks like 100% flame bait to me.

I have made several great deals with Ray. He has been courteous and completely honest. Ray stepped in when I was ready to dump a couple of AES systems because they did not work. He saw my post and pictures. contacted me about it, offered me ways of fixing them, and utimitely gave me a great shipped price for having !arcade!fix them both. I even got a nice mod job on one of them.

!arcade! is a business. Get it?

Nick Goracke · May 31, 2002

What purpose does not selling these protos to the US market have? That's the only thing that doesn't make sense to me...

If it's strictly a business move, won't not selling these games to US collectors lead to less profits?

WARNING: Ray Young/Arcade

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