Sega Dreamcast followed Neo's Lead

I was thinking about something today while I was playing Nam-1975 on my cart system. I also have a Dreamcast, and one of the main reasons I bought it was because House of the Dead 2 (arcade game) was being released on the Dreamcast. I was stoked and had to get it. After I got the system I was dumbfounded when I read that Dreamcast technology was taken directly from the arcade machine that runs House of the Dead 2. Of course that is the NAOMI-based Arcade board. So Sega basically took their arcade technology and compressed it to fit in much smaller casing and released it for home use. Well I hadn't thought about it at the time, but today I was thinking how cool it was my Neo cart system could produce graphics comparable to arcade machines. Then I thought, my Sega can too. Finally, after months of ignorance, I put 2 and 2 together... Sega sort of followed the Neo-Geo's pattern for success and long-term playability by using arcade technology for their home system. One question comes to mind though: Why is Sega able to make the system so affordable and SNK didn't... technically 128-bits should cost more than 16-bits... right?

Originally posted by Omega-NEO:
I was thinking about something today while I was playing Nam-1975 on my cart system. I also have a Dreamcast, and one of the main reasons I bought it was because House of the Dead 2 (arcade game) was being released on the Dreamcast. I was stoked and had to get it. After I got the system I was dumbfounded when I read that Dreamcast technology was taken directly from the arcade machine that runs House of the Dead 2. Of course that is the NAOMI-based Arcade board. So Sega basically took their arcade technology and compressed it to fit in much smaller casing and released it for home use. Well I hadn't thought about it at the time, but today I was thinking how cool it was my Neo cart system could produce graphics comparable to arcade machines. Then I thought, my Sega can too. Finally, after months of ignorance, I put 2 and 2 together... Sega sort of followed the Neo-Geo's pattern for success and long-term playability by using arcade technology for their home system. One question comes to mind though: Why is Sega able to make the system so affordable and SNK didn't... technically 128-bits should cost more than 16-bits... right?

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The same question has crossed my mind as well, Omega. I'm sure Neo technology can be
cheaply produced today (the 68000 Motorola processor used in the Neo can be
purchased for $5.00 (much less in bulk I would imagine), but I believe it just boils down to this: you can make more money by selling a cart system at the original retail price.

i always wondered that too..when neo geo first game out i understand the high cost for the gold system etc...But how about in 1996? Could they have nor released the machine for about $100? I know that snk will always be on the outskirts of main stream gamers but think of all the new fans they could have gotten.....Why wouldnt a company like snk of japan just reissue more of the carts at a reasonable price just to make some cash and make the fans happy..I have 36 home aes, yes when i play motw i enjoy it and i do have a small smile when i think of the value of the english cart, but i would still love it, if it was worth $50....now i know alot of people say this restock from ncs and neogeofreak.com are new carts or reissues or even some stuff sitting in some storage area of japan...but if snk and their new parent company had any intelligent they would have done this isntead of closing up shop...the best example i could use for them is this, I work in a kb toy store in NY, a busy mall store ,and i brought my neo geo home system, motw and ss2 to the store and demo them..>My reason was my staff used to dis the neo and couldnt believe i was dropping money on a "dead" system..so i hooked it up and passed out my two cd control pads for some people to try and before you know it their was a crowd..."what is this game? where can i get it? what system is that?" etc.....after that day my asst actual got a neo system and he has been playing since.....the killer part is this was back in june and software etc had a japanese ps2 set up with sfex and i think motw was drawing more of a crowd....whats my point? Snk mis managed everything.....good idea acrade in your home could have excuted better

That's pretty awesome to hear smurphy. I too tend to try and lead people to the ways of Neo Geo, and occasionally have some success, but nothing like that. I definitely agree with what else you said, about reissuing the games and aim the costs down a bit. Not everybody finds 3D gaming to be the do all end all, but the mainstream has no way of knowing any better that the Neo Geo is still around. I think if SNK/Aruze would just stick at marketing to people who missed the Neo Geo ride earlier, when a lot of us got into it, they would satnd to do nothing but profit from it. Hell, they've already got a legacy of 10 years worth of games, all they'd have to do is reissue most of that. Oh well, sounds good in theory, but who knows how it would actually be?

Well first off...hello everyone..new person on the forum.

Anywho. No, the DC isn't a conversion of the Naomi. It's the other way around. The Naomi is simply a somewhat beefed up DC (as is the Naomi 2). Yes, its somewhat hard to believe that things are happening in reverse, but its true. Heh.

Well I am positive I read that the NAOMI arcade board was the technology used inside the Sega Dreamcast system. And besides that, what you say about the NAOMI board being a beefed-up DC is not possible, because the NAOMI board was made BEFORE the Dreamcast. So, maybe the DC is a watered-down version of the NAOMI, and not the other way around. See what I am saying? Well, I am not here to argue, just pointing out similarities between my Neo-Geo and Dreamcast.

Originally posted by Omega-NEO:
Well I am positive I read that the NAOMI arcade board was the technology used inside the Sega Dreamcast system. And besides that, what you say about the NAOMI board being a beefed-up DC is not possible, because the NAOMI board was made BEFORE the Dreamcast. So, maybe the DC is a watered-down version of the NAOMI, and not the other way around. See what I am saying? Well, I am not here to argue, just pointing out similarities between my Neo-Geo and Dreamcast.

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The DC is IDENTICAL to the Naomi board, The naomi board has more RAM however for some functions, I think mainley because the sound isn't on CD.

Graphically though they are the same machine, Why do you think Naomi-DC ports look the same if not better than the arcade?



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Try to remember what the cost of PC's were way back when: my first IBM Clone was a Pentium 90 with a 1 GIG HD & 8 MB of RAM. It cost over $1000.00 back in 1995. I couldn't build the same system now, but even trying to build one with similar specs wouldn't run more than a few hundred dollars. Now imagine 1990. The primary components in a PC (CPU, Memory etc.) are the same components in a Neo. In fact, I believe the Neo's probably were custom or proprietary for that system, which would have added to the cost of production and raised the cost of the product. Now build a PC today: I can build a system that would smoke that Pentium 90 for about 1/2 that cost.

Therefore, I would assume the same would apply to todays games, especially with the input or "cooperation" in the design/and or components that go into the systems, from companies like nVIDIA.

Did you also know That The Akira arcade boards (street fighter EX's) are basically done on beefed up sony playstations. If you look at the boards it just a sony playstion with rom chips instead of a cd. Not that this is the norm for all arcade -> Sony playstation games. Just that there were some ....but if you really want to go back to the orgins you would have to look at the nintendo player choice systems. Remember mario Bros in the arcade

"And besides that, what you say about the NAOMI board being a beefed-up DC is not possible, because the NAOMI board was made BEFORE the Dreamcast."

Not bloody really. The Katakana project (the Japanese R&D project to design a new console, the American one by 3DFX was Dural) was supposed to bring Model 3 level graphics to the home. So, it was designed to be a console system from the start. Sega merely saw that the thing made a suitable replacement for the Model 3 when beefed up somewhat. The two systems are exactly the same, except, like Caris says, the Naomi has more RAM. Back to the main idea though, it was designed, from the beginning to be a home console. Whether or not the Naomi came out first is irrelevent.

[This message has been edited by SiberioS (edited December 07, 2000).]

Originally posted by Lou Gojira:
Not everybody finds 3D gaming to be the do all end all, but the mainstream has no way of knowing any better that the Neo Geo is still around.

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You would be surprised how many DO think 3D gaming is the be all and end all, though. I got into an argument with a moron wearing a 3dfx hat at a LAN party, and I made the statement that, "Just because a game is 3D does not make it a good game."

He stared at me in bewilderment while his brain cells attempted to make a connection, before replying, "YES IT DOES!"

DaiKatana, anyone?

-BioMotor_Unitron

P.S. BTW, I got the opportunity to torture him later, by not allowing him to play Metal Slug 3 on the home cart system I had brought along.

Originally posted by SiberioS:
Well first off...hello everyone..new person on the forum.

Anywho. No, the DC isn't a conversion of the Naomi. It's the other way around. The Naomi is simply a somewhat beefed up DC (as is the Naomi 2). Yes, its somewhat hard to believe that things are happening in reverse, but its true. Heh.

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Actually, the DreamCast hardware IS a knock-off of the NAOMI hardware. NAOMI 2 is a newer, better standard which the DreamCast cannot achieve with its current hardware specs (seeing as how it is based off of the original NAOMI board). There is talk of SEGA creating an add-on for the DC which will upgrade it, so NAOMI 2 games could then be ported to the system.

-BioMotor_Unitron

"Actually, the DreamCast hardware IS a knock-off of the NAOMI hardware."

Read my other post above. It isn't. Its the otherway around.

"NAOMI 2 is a newer, better standard which the DreamCast cannot achieve with its current hardware specs (seeing as how it is based off of the original NAOMI board)."

Once again, read my above post. Also, the Naomi 2 isn't that big of a step forward over the original so that theory that the "DC can't achieve it" is bunk.

"There is talk of SEGA creating an add-on for the DC which will upgrade it, so NAOMI 2 games could then be ported to the system."

What are you talking about? A port from the DC from the Naomi 2 won't need any "additional hardware". The games will simply be watered down a wee bit to play. Even then, they may not even need to be. No sane, reasonable company is gonna release an upgrade to play a handful of games a tiny bit better.

Originally posted by SiberioS:
"Actually, the DreamCast hardware IS a knock-off of the NAOMI hardware."

Read my other post above. It isn't. Its the otherway around.

"NAOMI 2 is a newer, better standard which the DreamCast cannot achieve with its current hardware specs (seeing as how it is based off of the original NAOMI board)."

Once again, read my above post. Also, the Naomi 2 isn't that big of a step forward over the original so that theory that the "DC can't achieve it" is bunk.

"There is talk of SEGA creating an add-on for the DC which will upgrade it, so NAOMI 2 games could then be ported to the system."

What are you talking about? A port from the DC from the Naomi 2 won't need any "additional hardware". The games will simply be watered down a wee bit to play. Even then, they may not even need to be. No sane, reasonable company is gonna release an upgrade to play a handful of games a tiny bit better.

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I did read your above post. Reading it again will not make it right. As for NAOMI VS. NAOMI 2, it IS in fact a major leap. If you want ugly, watered down games, fine, I would rather get the expansion unit (if they make one). Also, it will not be a "handfull of games" since NAOMI 2 will be their new standard. It will just be a while before there is a major amount of them, due to the development cycle.

-BioMotor_Unitron


[This message has been edited by BioMotor_Unitron (edited December 08, 2000).]

Originally posted by SiberioS:
"Actually, the DreamCast hardware IS a knock-off of the NAOMI hardware."

Read my other post above. It isn't. Its the otherway around.

"NAOMI 2 is a newer, better standard which the DreamCast cannot achieve with its current hardware specs (seeing as how it is based off of the original NAOMI board)."

Once again, read my above post. Also, the Naomi 2 isn't that big of a step forward over the original so that theory that the "DC can't achieve it" is bunk.

"There is talk of SEGA creating an add-on for the DC which will upgrade it, so NAOMI 2 games could then be ported to the system."

What are you talking about? A port from the DC from the Naomi 2 won't need any "additional hardware". The games will simply be watered down a wee bit to play. Even then, they may not even need to be. No sane, reasonable company is gonna release an upgrade to play a handful of games a tiny bit better.

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I did read your above post. Reading it again will not make it right. As for NAOMI VS. NAOMI 2, it IS in fact a major leap. If you want ugly, watered down games, fine, I would rather get the expansion unit (if they make one). Also, it will not be a "handfull of games" since NAOMI 2 will be their new standard. It will just be a while before there is a major amount of them, due to the developement cycle.

-BioMotor_Unitron

"Reading it again will not make it right. "

Umm..oh nevermind. The damn project was conceived, from beginning to end, to be a HOME CONSOLE (READ THOSE WORDS AGAIN). Whether or not they beefed it up for the Arcade or released the Arcade version first is irrelevant. The Katakana was designed to be a home system capable of achieving Model 3 power. Simple really.

"If you want ugly, watered down games, fine, I would rather get the expansion unit (if they make one). "

Ugly watered down games? Are you aware of the fact that no home system out there is woefully under powered to do arcade ports. This isn't a "Neo Geo to SNES" conversion here. Hell..most games converted to the DC are better!

"it will not be a "handfull of games" since NAOMI 2 will be their new standard. It will just be a while before there is a major amount of them, due to the developement cycle."

Yes it will be. This is NOT..I repeat..NOT the Neo Geo here. The DC's sole purpose is not be home for arcade ports (or simply arcade perfect games). Oh sure..there are alot of arcade games that Sega makes, but not enough to justify an expansion unit. And unless you've been hiding under a rock for the past 10 years of videogames, no expansion (especially one as superflous as the one your suggesting) has ever gone over well. And for a supposed new standard, there sure are a shitload of games (both from Sega and third party) being made for the current DC. Projects that won't be done till next fall. So this "new standard" is also bunk.

Damn this topic is getting out of hand. I just posted it in an effort to show similarities between the Neo and Dreamcast. All we really need to know is the Dreamcast can port NAOMI board arcade games perfectly. Period. The Dreamcast is a great system. Its fun to play. It is superior to the Neo because it doesn't rely on arcade games to build a library of games from. Plenty of 3rd-party companies are producing brand-new games specifically for the Dreamcast. As an added bonus, arcade games are also ported over to it as well. That is good enough for me. You guys can argue about the NAOMI board 1 & 2 issues all you like. As for the DC being a Model 3 project I dunno... if its true then fantastic! I loved the Sega Model 1 Board and Model 2 wasn't too shabby either. So if its a step up from those then I am all for it. Sega Dreamcast is my playground of choice these days... but that doesn't stop me from powering up the old Neo for some nostalgic gaming experiences every now and then...

Sega confirmed that they are making a video board add-on for the DC that would allow NAOMI 2 games to be ported almost directly

Sega confirmed that they are making a video board add-on for the DC that would allow NAOMI 2 games to be ported almost directly

And you heard this where? I have seen it no where. It'd be incredibly moronic and pointless if they did though. No ones going to purchase the infernal thing (I know I won't).

NeoSneth:
Don't know if it's true but I doubt Sega will announce any add-on to Dreamcast. Sega has bad experiences in Sega CD, 32X, and so on therefore they're not that stupid to repeat the history over again.

Originally posted by SiberioS:
And you heard this where?

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Unless he gets the same arcade trade magazines we get at work, I would surmise he saw the mentions of it in EGM, ODCM, and GameFan (where it has also appeared).

-BioMotor_Unitron

A sega representative released reports saying sega would want to have a video add-on rather than sacrifice the quality of a Naomi 2 game. Plus it would make it easier to port. When you have to remake a game such as Virtua Cop 2 for DC ,which was done on the older board, the qualtiy drops significantly. I did read this on several japanese new groups before seeing it in ODCM.