BOOTLEG ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1050413369 please mail this dude and ask how he can be so cheeky to ask for £80 first bid on what is basically a fuckin bootleg!!!!!!!! am i the only one who thinks this is wrong and if its so rare why is this the 2nd one hes tryin to sell!

Originally posted by BONKERS4NEO:
<STRONG>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1050413369 please mail this dude and ask how he can be so cheeky to ask for £80 first bid on what is basically a fuckin bootleg!!!!!!!! am i the only one who thinks this is wrong and if its so rare why is this the 2nd one hes tryin to sell!</STRONG>

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Actually, Pop 'n Bounce is a very obscure game that was made in virtually nonexistent quantities. The seller mentions that it is a "converted" MVS cart. Personally, I have no problem with these Pop n Bounce boots, as you'll never see it in the "legal" format, anywhere. Better to try to shoot down the Neo Geo ROM auctions than a Pop n Bounce boot, as they're far more objectionable than this . . .

so this isnt like bad? but how do ya know if its been converted properly ive heard of horror storys of people with converted carts not seeing the ending of their games! how is it converted? do you sacrifice a good mvs cart ie with the same amount of megabites? if so isnt that killing other carts that become rare?

and whats the difference between dumping a cart on to ur pc and playin on a emu and dumping a rare cart buying lots of cheap carts and burning the dumped cart onto them and selling for £100 a go????????????is that not piracy??????if thats the case why do you all hate rom sellers when this bascally is the same?????????mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

has everyone here got double standards u either do or dont right? or not? is this like i will when it suits me and i wont when it dosent?

I think most people hate the ROM sellers because of residual anger. It's not a black and white situation, mind you.

ROM sellers, take money that should have went to SNK or whoever the copyright holder is. It's debatable whether or not emu-players would buy the game if it wasn't free, but it's pretty damn UNdebatable that someone who is willing to pay a little less for a copy, wouldn't pay the full price for the real thing.

Therefore ROM and HK Silver sellers take money from the copyright holders.

The big thing about copyright infringement in the real world is this...You don't copyright out of spite. If I make a game and I copyright it, I'm not doing so to say 'you can't play my game!', I'm saying 'you can play my game if you pay me for it'...that's all. The infringing of the copyright occurs when someone not only re-produces a copyrighted work, but by the action of it deprives the owner of financial gain they would have garnered had the cheaper or free version not existed.

Like I said, it's a whole gray area.

The reason I don't get upset about conversions, especially when it's a rarer game is...it's not affecting SNK. They've made thier money from the initial sale and as it is not ported nor being ported to another system, the only people who stand to lose anything are the collectors and the people who make money on small market commodities (in this case, small run games) as that will hurt their sales because the game is now availible in a larger number and for a cheaper price.

Then again, since SNK is now out of business it's arguable that it's Open Season for bootlegs! But the copyrights are still firm in place and they're still owned by someone. So the 'residual' part of it is although I say 'SNK doesn't get their money', it isn't in fact SNK it's someone else...but the point still stands.

That's just a general outlook by me. It carries over to people who sell ROMS on CD-ROMS. Some schmuck is making money off of burning a disk, when the act of burning the disk is really NOT what he's selling, no matter what they tell you.

That's dishonest and illegal and they should be shot down any and everytime you see them.

Don't misconstrue what I said about depriving a copyright holder of their due money as an excuse for people who give stuff away for free, specifically games.

It's STILL Illegal to reproduce them, even if you're doing so for free...unless you fall under a certain number of condtions, including things as Educational Purposes (yes, that is a legitimate excuse), Scholarship or Professional Archivist.

Take an issue someone brought up recently about me making a shirt with the Neo Geo logo on it and selling it at cafepress.com. Is this illegal? Techically? Hell yes. Totally 100%. But as I've said before there are a lot of gray areas. SNK never made shirts. If they did, they didn't make them for long and more to the point they don't make them now. So I can sleep at night knowing I'm not costing them any money as I'm not cutting into their marketshare...there is no market. If they chose to tell me to stop, I would! But it's common knowledge that SNK or the current SNK-Copyright Holders are very easy going when it comes to fan-produced items and they probably couldn't care less.

I do, however, make no profit from the shirts because it would go against my moral standards (if you want to call it that). And the files to print them are and always have been readily available if you want to buy a transfer and print it up at your home.

You're just paying Cafe Press for the materials and service.........sounds a lot like a Rom Seller, doesn't it? <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">...yes it does. Gray Areas.

There are sometimes when what Bob is doing is right and what Dave is doing is wrong...even if they're fundamentally doing the same thing.

You can't (well you CAN, you just shouldn't) paint with broad brush strokes.

Zero Tolerance is another way of saying 'Zero Thinking'. Every case is different and should be judge on it's own merits.

I personally don't like that he's charging so MUCH for it, but the fact that he's selling it or that it exists really doesn't bother me.

Then again...that's just me.

Ooops...forgot one thing.

The reason a lot of people were honestly and truely pissed about bootleg and ROM's of KOF2k1 is that it IS still available and is costing A LOT of people money, not ONLY SNK and Eolith as well as Arcade Operators but the stores who sell the MVS games.

All three of them will and are taking a financial hit because of the copies floating around, and the fact that most people were playing it on their computer before it was even OUT in arcades!

That will discourage all 3 parties from continuing business...and that's something we don't want to see.

Just damn Blain. What can anyone say to that, you really went of there. You have a lot of really good points, I especially liked the part about, "Zero Tolerance is another way of saying 'Zero Thinking'. Every case is different and should be judge on it's own merits." This shouldn't just go for the Neo scene this is a wonderful life lesson.

Criterionradiohead <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Blaine, you have some very good points, but... KOF 2001 is NOT emulated yet. I just thought I'd point that out <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by BONKERS4NEO:
<STRONG>so this isnt like bad? but how do ya know if its been converted properly ive heard of horror storys of people with converted carts not seeing the ending of their games! how is it converted? do you sacrifice a good mvs cart ie with the same amount of megabites? if so isnt that killing other carts that become rare?</STRONG>

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Well, these Pop n Bounce boots have been sold by Cosmicco for quite a while, and Cosmico even puts a note in that they are boots. Its no big deal, Pop n Bounce as I said is a very obsure, strange game that never really had a wide release, and the company that made it probably folded years ago. While I can understand your concerns, these boots do very little harm to anyone, they just allow an MVS owner/collector to get a bizarre breakout-style game that had virtually no release at all, in MVS or home format.

As to how they're made, not sure but whoever makes them probably uses their own boards and just burns some EPROMs for them, no big deal. I doubt they sacrifice other MVS carts, but I could be wrong.

ROM sellers are far worse in my opinion, because they are making a profit off of something they had nothing to do with making. The Pop n Bounce boots, at least, were "manufactured" by someone, and therefore a lot more acceptable to me to buy or sell.

As I said, this is an obsure game from an obsure company, that would otherwise be nonexistent in the market were it not for the boots floating around. Let people have them if they want, there's certainly very little profit in making them anyway (Cosmicco sells them for $48 each last list I got, thats pretty cheap) and no one is losing sleep over this, not even SNK (before OR after their bankruptcy).

Hmmm, In Scott's (Lotology's) defense, I've always found him to be a great trader. I've dealt with him quite a a few times.

At least he's making it clear that its a converted cart, which is more than some ebay sellers would do <IMG SRC="smilies/ohno.gif" border="0">

Some good points there Blaine <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Thanks Blaine you have made some exellent points and so has chimpmiester i just made it sound worse to see peoples reactions to the bootleg subject, but i think that someone profiting off a rare cart and not having to pay royaltys to the original developer is one big reason why snk was killed off! how could they say release a game like snk vs capcom when 1 person buys an original and then burns it onto 300 carts and sells them on at under snks retail price doing snk out of customers.

Originally posted by elbarto:
<STRONG>At least he's making it clear that its a converted cart, which is more than some ebay sellers would do <IMG SRC="smilies/ohno.gif" border="0">
</STRONG>

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I'm feeling to lazy to read any of the long posts in this thread, but after looking at said auction -I agree with elBarto.

There are a lot of MVS pirate carts. Most MVS players are buying for the game, not the extra art work or authenticty of the cart.

I have no problem with these Pop n Bounce boots, as you'll never see it in the "legal" format
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Really ? I know i can tell the difference between a boot and a official Pop'n Bounce.
How? Maybe because i already sold 5 of them.
It's quite easy to see if it's a legit Pop'n Bounce or a bootleg.

LastResort

Pop n Bounce was done by Videosystem, same people who gave us Aerofighters 2,3 and some others. The price is definetely a little high for the bootleg, as I got an authentic bare cart for $180 on Ebay of all places. I've even seen whole kits offered for between $200-250. It's very true that these aren't easy to find, but for those who need it, look to Europe... the distribution was better for PnB in that market <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

But like was said, at least it's advertised as "converted"... the label is a dead giveaway too as a totally different, stylized font was used on the original label.

Hi bobak, i understand that but if that dosent bother u then why does it bother people when the roms get burnt on to cds and they make a big fuss and then they go buy a bootleg cart to me its a bit weird, i dont mind roms or emu or cd copying as i think and i have seen people use emus then end up going out and buying the real thing! the whole point of this thread was just to show people there are some double standards in here and that when newcomers come in taking about how cool metal slug 3 is on their pc everyone slags them and flames them but they dont mind copyed carts!

Hi i aint slaging this guy down he has excellent history i was just tryin to aproach this subject as it hasent been covered since ive been here (i think) and to be honest i will buy this cart off Lotogy because like everyone here has said its rare and is a pretty good game!