Questions about pirated SNK stuff

ForeverSublime

6400|!!|Kyo Clone
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Posts
6,416
Just curiousity really... I asked the first question before, but the thread got removed to quickly).

1) Why is it that people jump all over people selling CD roms on ebay... but when it comes to home carts and MVS carts... people are more accepting (how many times have people been refered to cosmico or to someone else for a pirated/converted cart?)

2) If people make roms of games, and sell them at cost (no profit)... is it against the law? I believe the purpose of the laws are to make it so that only the parent company profits from their merchandise - correct?

Just curious... I in no way endorse the piracy... never owned pirated SNK stuff... never will.
 

Late

Reichsf?rer-Finnland,
20 Year Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Posts
8,348
I`m no expert, but at least in the coverted carts issue, I don`t think its piracy as such, just a change of medium, you still have to own the original MVS to make the converted
cart.
 

Caseh

Tarma's Gun Polisher
Joined
Oct 24, 2001
Posts
108
If people make roms of games, and sell them at cost (no profit)... is it against the law?

As far as I know yes its against the law, your only allowed to own a rom if you actually own the original PCB/cart, selling them even for no profit would be illegal.
 

ttooddddyy

PNG FTW,
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
8,335
Didnt know Cosmicco flogged any bootleg carts, didnt know there was such a thing, for mvs anyway.
Caseh what part of Wales, Im from Llanelli originally, now live in PNG <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

Caseh

Tarma's Gun Polisher
Joined
Oct 24, 2001
Posts
108
Caseh what part of Wales, Im from Llanelli originally, now live in PNG

Hehe, and there was me thinking I was the lone welsh boy <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Im from Caerphilly...where the sheep roam the streets <IMG SRC="smilies/tickled.gif" border="0">
 

chimpmeister

Former Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2000
Posts
5,228
People get upset about the selling of CDRs on Ebay because the people selling them are leeches who had nothing to do with buying or creating the original games (and they DO try to make a profit off the burned games/ROMs). I personally have no problem with people downloading and using ROMs at all, but I DO have a problem with people SELLING ROMs, as if they had something to do with producing them.

I recently encountered an Ebay seller, with a 140+ feedback rating, selling 2 CDRs of Neo Geo games. I emailed him and told him I was surprised to see a seller with such a high rating taking a risk with his Ebay reputation, and I suggested that he not sell the ROMs since it was illegal. He emailed me back "get a life". Sorry to say for him, Ebay ended his auction and SUSPENDED his ID shortly after I (and probably other people) sent a complaint to them. I have no pity for him, he should have thought about it first before he tried to leech profits from something he didn't produce or buy. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">
 

ForeverSublime

6400|!!|Kyo Clone
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Posts
6,416
Exactly... cd roms... but when it comes to carts, people don't seem to give a damn. I think it's true too, or else someone would have said by now "selling pirated carts is bad". The people pirating carts have nothing to do with the production of the game... aren't they then the leeches?

I haven't heard one bad thing about cosmico or arcade...

If he wasn't profiting chimp, how would you feel?
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,070
Why is it that people jump all over people selling CD roms on ebay... but when it comes to home carts and MVS carts... people are more accepting (how many times have people been refered to cosmico or to someone else for a pirated/converted cart?)

Good question, I will try to field it myself.
I disagree with conversions, which is blasphemous to SNK's home cart efforts, THATS MY OPINION ON THEM THOUGH.
I think the reason threads keep getting removed is for fear people might make sense out of the situation. Or face the reality about whats been going on. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

2) If people make roms of games, and sell them at cost (no profit)... is it against the law? I believe the purpose of the laws are to make it so that only the parent company profits from their merchandise - correct?

Of course its illegal, because the pieces being sold are unliscensed variations of real neo games, thats why ngf is looked down upon for lying about what they are selling, which it is illegal for them to sell stuff that was copyrighted to a original source, when they created a knockoff.
Is it okay? Nope, just like DL'ing a rom off the net, you are STEALING copyrighted material, which cannot be justified.
"All snk parts" = Bullshit, its a fooled with product which has physical changes.

Better save this response, so it does not get deleted like alot of my shit has been. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

ForeverSublime

6400|!!|Kyo Clone
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Posts
6,416
Ha! I kinda like that one... if they are lying about it, then they get their bad karma...

The thought about the selling of pirated goods without profit came to mind after I saw blaine selling T-shirts. Out of respect, he says, he won't make a profit on the shirts he sells. I wonder if he feels the same way about games?
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,070
I don't think ANYONE with morals should sell SNK based stuff, unless SNK NEO GEO is getting royalties now.(or they are licensed by SNK NEO GEO to do so)
Thats why all these people picked a time to manipulate, because SNK's old name is deceased, thus they can get away with all kinds of fraudulent shit.

Especially things that bare the "SNK logo", I don't see SNK getting a fucking dime from stuff there logo is burned on, I say practice what you preach.
I recently printed out two custom MVS labels for AOF 3 and SS 4, I will never sell them though, that would be fraud, no matter how pretty the product.
 

FeelGood

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Posts
17,794
keep in mind that blaine's shirt does not bear a logo, but a word mark, and it is painted, not a screenshot. It is not pirated, but more like a knock-off. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

Blaine

Hinako's Cook
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Posts
3,113
Originally posted by ForeverSublime:
<STRONG>If people make roms of games, and sell them at cost (no profit)... is it against the law? I believe the purpose of the laws are to make it so that only the parent company profits from their merchandise - correct?

Just curious... I in no way endorse the piracy... never owned pirated SNK stuff... never will.</STRONG>

No, even if you sell it at no profit it's still illegal. In fact the US copyright code (which has the same basis of the international copyright code) SPECIFICALLY says that is not an acceptable method of distributing copyrighted material. Even GIVING IT AWAY...Free...totally. Is illegal, because you are illegally reproducing a copyrighted material.

It's not just so the parent company makes money, or are the ONLY ones to make money, circulating ROMS (in theory, my views on ROMS are very specific and technical) cuts into the market for prospective buyers...and therefore costs SNK the money they would have made if someone had bought a legitimate copy of thier game.

As far as my shirts go...well, first off...aside from myself, I've never sold one single shirt. Not one. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">.

Second on that part, SNK never made T-Shirts for the US market, or if they did it was never that wide spride, and it's definately not available today.

So I'm in no way infriging on their rights to produce shirts, or cutting into their profits from said shirts. Are my shirts illegal? I'll say 'yes', but that's a gray area. I created those in Illustrator. It's an artistic representation of a known piece. I'll admit that it doesn't have BOTH characteristcs required for legal protection from Copyright Infringement (that would be
1) An Artistic Recreation/Representation AND
2) Posesses Significant changes from the original.) but I won't deny that the likeness of the Neo•Geo logo is a copyrighted work of art. I do not have permission to use or reproduce it. If SNK or the new Neo•Geo USA want to take this up with me, I'm more than willing to hear what they have to say. But it's commonly understood that SNK doesn't care about fan produced items. If they change thier mind or this knowledge is wrong. I'll remove the shirts from my online store.

The reason I sell my shirts at no profit is three-fold.

1) I don't own the copyright and I wouldn't feel right about doing it. Out of respect.
2) Make it cheaper if anyone wants to buy one.
3) I don't care about the money. It's just something I did in a hour that I hoped against hope that someone somewhere would enjoy...that's not been the case <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">.

The payment I receive is the joy I get knowing I maybe made someones day. Who knows, by wearing that T-Shirt you may run into another fan! And that's what I really hope happens. It's sorta a way for the fans to passively 'run up the flag and see if you have any allies' in a real world setting......it's actually a pretty sharp looking shirt for being so simple <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">.
 

Blaine

Hinako's Cook
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Posts
3,113
Originally posted by Lord Wolfgang Krauser:
<STRONG>I don't think ANYONE with morals should sell SNK based stuff, unless SNK NEO GEO is getting royalties now.(or they are licensed by SNK NEO GEO to do so)
Thats why all these people picked a time to manipulate, because SNK's old name is deceased, thus they can get away with all kinds of fraudulent shit.

Especially things that bare the "SNK logo", I don't see SNK getting a fucking dime from stuff there logo is burned on, I say practice what you preach.
I recently printed out two custom MVS labels for AOF 3 and SS 4, I will never sell them though, that would be fraud, no matter how pretty the product.</STRONG>

Believe it or not...I agree. The only reason you have to pay to have one of my shirts is because that's the production cost to have one made from CafePress.com.

I've always had the artwork itself available for download, for anyone who wants to buy a transfer and print up thier own shirts...always.

You're basically just paying for someone to make it and send it to you.

Like I said, I don't pretend it's 100% on the up and up, but it is a gray area. If for one split moment of a fraction of a second I had ANY thought that I may be costing SNK money...I'd pull them off the internet IMMEDIATELY.

As far as I'm concerned it's not different than a fan insert.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,070
As long as he aint selling it he can put whatever he wants on it, the second he does, he assumes the debt of SNK and owes them royalties for useing there logo. Blaine seems like a cool guy, I doubt he would sell a shirt with SNK's logo.
People should have pictures of KOF characters with no names put on the shirt.

If I were to put "iori" and sell it, then I would probably get in trouble, because that character is copyrighted to SNK, on a shirt with the characters art, hell thats looking for some serious jail time right there.

Remember the wind theory, whatever blows now will hit someone years later, and you guys just watch all these bootlegs will heighten the paranoia.
BB made a excellent point, the question these days is not whats fake, its "what isnt fake"
In 2005, the neo I BET WILL STILL BE ALIVE. Only real games will be much rarer then the fakes that floated around all those years ago. (what we are partially experiencing today)
Thats why I got nothing to do with converts.

People see a cart and think, "hey thats real"
because neo carts are easy as fuck to fake, it just takes a high quality bitmap and a kinkos trip.
Case? Just kill FF, or FF3 for clamshell.
Roms? Get a burner.
Insert? Kinkos.
Booklet? That can be done to.
Right down to the guts and cart sticker.

Hell I could produce a fake that would have trouble slipping the eye, once its lined up to a original it is damn near obvious how fake it is.
Why do you think games keep dropping by the assload? They are easily decrypted, LETS HOPE TO GOD, that the newer games have a even harder to hack incryption. No matter what though, they WILL BE EMULATED. There are millions of people in this world and its impossible to prevent.

Hell, it only took two dude's from sweden to create NRX, imagine what you could come up with a million working on the games?
<IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">
Still have faith the shit won't be decypted? Where there is data there is always away, because its in the games themselves. Anything in there can and will be manipulated, I stated this before though.
 

ForeverSublime

6400|!!|Kyo Clone
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Posts
6,416
Oh brother... First I'll start off with Wolfgang... isn't it still fraud even if you don't sell them? I believe blaine is correct when he says the law is there so that perspective sales won't be lost... custom made or not...

Same goes for Blaine... but thanks for the honesty, heheh.

I want a T-shirt <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,070
Originally posted by Blaine:
<STRONG>Believe it or not...I agree. The only reason you have to pay to have one of my shirts is because that's the production cost to have one made from CafePress.com.

I've always had the artwork itself available for download, for anyone who wants to buy a transfer and print up thier own shirts...always.

You're basically just paying for someone to make it and send it to you.

Like I said, I don't pretend it's 100% on the up and up, but it is a gray area. If for one split moment of a fraction of a second I had ANY thought that I may be costing SNK money...I'd pull them off the internet IMMEDIATELY.

As far as I'm concerned it's not different than a fan insert.</STRONG>


Yep, as long as there is no profit involved I encourage you to go all out. Not to sound like a hardass to some, but I am glad thats the way it works.
 

Blaine

Hinako's Cook
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Posts
3,113
Originally posted by Lord Wolfgang Krauser:
<STRONG>As long as he aint selling it he can put whatever he wants on it, the second he does, he assumes the debt of SNK and owes them royalties for useing there logo. Blaine seems like a cool guy, I doubt he would sell a shirt with SNK's logo.</STRONG>

Thanks for thinking I'm cool...but I did make a Neo•Geo shirt, and it can be bought off the Internet here.
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=blaine3

Like I said before...as far as I'm concerned it's a gray area. Every company I've tried to contact for permission to use a logo or likeness has ignored me (most recently, Taito...I'm about to release a Puzzle Bobble insert in a couple minutes).

I swear to you before all holy GOD. If SNK or whatever incarnation told me they didn't like it I would remove it immediately.

If I found out there were Neo•Geo Shirts available....I'd remove it as a precautionary measure.

If I thought it was costing them a dime...or if they were losing anything, I'd remove.

In fact it's always been my policy that IF a shirt did sell, or sold well, I would increase the price and give the proceeds to the company in question. I even offered to donate the design to all companies who's copyrighted imagery I re-created.

None seemed interested.

But...that's the tale of the Neo•Geo shirt.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,070
Originally posted by Blaine:
<STRONG>Thanks for thinking I'm cool...but I did make a Neo•Geo shirt, and it can be bought off the Internet here.
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=blaine3

Like I said before...as far as I'm concerned it's a gray area. Every company I've tried to contact for permission to use a logo or likeness has ignored me (most recently, Taito...I'm about to release a Puzzle Bobble insert in a couple minutes).

I swear to you before all holy GOD. If SNK or whatever incarnation told me they didn't like it I would remove it immediately.

If I found out there were Neo•Geo Shirts available....I'd remove it as a precautionary measure.

If I thought it was costing them a dime...or if they were losing anything, I'd remove.

In fact it's always been my policy that IF a shirt did sell, or sold well, I would increase the price and give the proceeds to the company in question. I even offered to donate the design to all companies who's copyrighted imagery I re-created.

None seemed interested.

But...that's the tale of the Neo•Geo shirt.</STRONG>

Hey it looks okay to me, I don't see SNK's logo, my only concern is the neo is a copyright of SNK.
Hell imagine how many copyrights have been violated by those people who pirate shit.

-Characters
-Company Logo

etc etc.

As far as your shirt goes, it looks pretty damn cool IMO. The only problem I could truly generate is the fact it has a copyrighted logo.

Then again look at strategy guides, they say the names of games and the comapnies get literally no royalites, (unless they are official)
If you put "totally unofficial" on each one, I think you would be 100% safe.
 
Top