What is so hard to understand?

EX_Andy

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A well-loved baker who never quite hit the big time used to make these delicious home-baked pies. To distribute them, he'd bake them, then let them cool along a big open windowsill that stretched far out into the distance. In fact, the windowsill was so big and long, he couldn't even see or keep track of all of it.

People came from miles around to buy his delicious pies, which were very expensive, since they were hand-made, and came in these very nice, cast-iron pie tins. However, the people who could afford to purchase those pies enjoyed them immensely, and even posted about them to some internet message board somewhere.

However, as time passed, thieves figured out how to climb up onto the open windowsill and steal those delicious pies without ever paying for them. The loyal customers who paid lots of money for the pies felt outrage at this, though the thieves who stole the pies justified this by saying, "Hey, they're out in the open and easy to steal. It's almost like they're free for the taking! Anyway, we could never afford to actually pay for such expensive pies. Therefore, what we're doing isn't wrong."

The fans of these delicious pies argued about whether it was right or not to steal them. All the while, the poor baker toiled and toiled away, not making much money and finally having to resort to getting bought out by a dirty yakuza pachinko company.

A few years later, the poor baker went bankrupt, leaving nothing but a few rows of pies left on his windowsill. There was much disappointment all around, until people started hearing rumors that their favorite baker might start making fresh, new pies again under a different name. However, the pies wouldn't just be hand-baked in cast-iron pans; they'd also be distributed in cheaper, paper wrappings that new customers could buy for less money.

For some reason, some fans were very upset by this. "Why, that's a disgrace!" they exclaimed. "If those pies aren't baked in those expensive pie tins, then left on the windowsill out in the open, they aren't real pies! We think the baker should go back to the old format. We refuse to accept anything else."

Other fans of the baker disagreed. They argued, "Even if the baker tries to keep thieves from climbing up the windowsill, those thieves will eventually figure out how to get back up there. Then they'll start stealing new pies again. Isn't that part of the reason why the baker went out of business in the first place?"

It was these fans who were happy to hear that they'd be able to enjoy more of their favorite baker's pies, in any form. In fact, they didn't care that the pies would come out in paper packages, because all they really cared about was the taste of those wonderful pies made by that talented baker. And with the affordable paper wrappings, even more people would be able to buy and enjoy those pies without having to resort to stealing them... which meant that this time, the baker might actually get paid the money he deserved for making those wonderful, wonderful pies.

[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: EX_Andy ]
 

Fran

today forever
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i'm just lookin
i'm not buying

[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Fran ]
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
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Yeah, I remember that baker. He was the best. Too bad he had to relocate. It's harder to get his pastries now, but the real deal is still well worth the effort.

Oh yeah. And Neo Geo is the best, too <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

Rade K

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I like it. Good way of putting things. Sad fact is, that it still isnt going to make those who chose to pirate SNK games all those years see the light. They really enjoyed sucking the company dry and they are just going to move on to another host untill they suck that one dry and leave it an empty husk. The pirate cycle.

The theives got SNK, and they almost got SEGA. Who else will they try to attack.
 

EX_Andy

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Originally posted by Rade Kuruc:
<STRONG>Sad fact is, that it still isnt going to make those who chose to pirate SNK games all those years see the light. They really enjoyed sucking the company dry and they are just going to move on to another host untill they suck that one dry and leave it an empty husk.</STRONG>

This was really intended for people who, for some reason, oppose official PC (and other platform) releases of upcoming games like Slug 4. Look at it this way: if the game is coming to the Neo, IT WILL GET DUMPED. Our ROM-pirate friends will see to it. At this point, it makes no sense to say "I WANT THIS GAME ONLY ON NEO, AND I'LL PAY $300 FOR THE CART, NEO ONLY!!!" then, when the game is dumped 2 months later, to say "HEY!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE THOSE DIRTY RATS DUMPED THE ROM!!!" That's like putting a piece of cheese in front of a rat, then actually getting mad when the rat walks up and eats the cheese (or downloads it, or whatever). You know the rat is going to eat the cheese. You know the pirates are going to dump the ROM.

ROM pirating has screwed everything up for the Neo. When these so-called "fans" hear that Slug 4 is being developed, they don't think, "oh boy, I can't wait to buy my copy," they think, "oh boy, I can't wait until it gets dumped and I can download it for free."

For SNK/Brezza/Eolith/Mega to survive and thrive, they've got to make their games more accessible to people--that means make them more cheaply available, and on more platforms, including the PC. It's the only way they can make any money. And for SNK/Brezza/Eolith/Mega to survive and thrive, the Neo MUST DIE. This has gone on far too long.
 
I

ImMature

Guest
The fuck you're talking about?!?

1st off, the baker was a wholesaler not a retailer; that's 1 of the reasons why having a *few* people "stealing" from him never caused real harm to him, no matter what story-tellers happen to believe

2ndly, even though the "baker" was really tallented at making "pies", he just plain sucked in the art of managing his own bussiness. Investing in expensive, experimental "opens" that he'd seldom use didn't help either. In fact, after all the stoopid decisions he made during all these years it's just a miracle that he didn't go out of bussiness earlier...

Prove me wrong if you dare
 

Ukyo

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Posted by EX ANDY:

"This was really intended for people who, for some reason, oppose official PC (and other platform) releases of upcoming games like Slug 4. "

What difference will it make if it does come out on PC. Cheap ("I'm just a gamer") fucks will always be cheap fucks...there not going to buy the pie in the paper packaging either. There just gonna wait until some even dumber fuck puts it up on IRC.>>>
 

Tempestad13

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Let's see how long this thread will stay here before being shoved into the war room.

Fire in the hole!
 

EX_Andy

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Originally posted by ImMature:
<STRONG>The fuck you're talking about?!?

1st off, the baker was a wholesaler not a retailer; that's 1 of the reasons why having a *few* people "stealing" from him never caused real harm to him, no matter what story-tellers happen to believe
</STRONG>

SNK retailed and wholesaled. Both the Japan office and failed US office sold copies directly to home buyers. That's irrelevant. The point was that only a few home users were able to afford the games... poor business sense, as I've said on several occasions, including the original post.

Originally posted by ImMature:
<STRONG>
2ndly, even though the "baker" was really tallented at making "pies", he just plain sucked in the art of managing his own bussiness. Investing in expensive, experimental "opens" that he'd seldom use didn't help either. In fact, after all the stoopid decisions he made during all these years it's just a miracle that he didn't go out of bussiness earlier...
</STRONG>

Did you actually read the story? It said the baker laid out his pies in the open... where they could get stolen. That's a bad business decision. In other words, I said that SNK made bad business decisions. One of those bad decisions was to continue supporting a platform with overly expensive games that thieves were actively pirating.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by ImMature:
<STRONG>Prove me wrong if you dare</STRONG>

Somebody's sounding defensive here. This reminds me of other "discussions" I've had with ROM-hounds on message boards and such. Basically, it all boils down to the fact that stealing SNK's games (back when they were alive) is wrong, and the ROM hounds making lame excuses to justify their actions and their guilty feelings. The reason why most ROM-hounds argue so hotly about the subject is because they feel guilty, and because they know, deep down inside, that what they did was wrong, and more recently, that they suspect they might've had something to do with SNK's downfall (which they did).

To address your earlier point, stealing NeoGeo games in the form of dumping ROMs isn't justifiable in any context. Don't bother posting any sort of argument to the contrary, because you're not going to change anyone's mind, least of all mine. If you actually think that it's in any way justifiable for pirates to have dumped copyrighted NeoGeo ROMs while the company was still desperately trying to make money and survive off of the games, you're wrong. Period. This "argument" was never an argument, and it's old, cold, and dead besides.
 

EX_Andy

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Originally posted by Ukyo:
<STRONG>Posted by EX ANDY:

"This was really intended for people who, for some reason, oppose official PC (and other platform) releases of upcoming games like Slug 4. "

What difference will it make if it does come out on PC. Cheap ("I'm just a gamer") fucks will always be cheap fucks...there not going to buy the pie in the paper packaging either. There just gonna wait until some even dumber fuck puts it up on IRC.>>></STRONG>

Try this. Go up to anyone you know you plays games, and tell them you paid $40-50 for a new PC or PS2/Xbox/GameCube game. Watch their reaction, if anything.

Now tell the same person that you just paid $270 for a single NeoGeo video game and watch their reaction. Notice any difference?

I'm not saying that PC ports will put an end to ROM dumping and piracy forever. Far from it. But more people will be willing to pay $40-50 for a game rather than $270. Do you actually disagree with that?
 

Ukyo

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Sure, It might help a little bit, but just think how many people dump PC games, and how QUICKLY. You dont have to crack shit...at least not to the extent of cart encryptions. Look how long it took them to dump 2k and MS3. PC games are ready for download the DAY they are released...but I hear you. I just don't think it makes a difference.>>>
 

Rade K

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EX_andy, you make great, fresh and valid arguments that I agree with. Unfortunately, people like ImMature and Tempest feel fully justified for what they do (or actually what they dont do, which is PAY for games). Don't bother with them.

ImMature, you keep barking up the wrong trees. If I saw anybody that has taken more beatings about this topic than you I'd be surprised. And you really suck at arguing it, as EX_Andy just demonstrated by schooling you. Youre used to it anyways.
 

Ukyo

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Oh, ImMature is a Rom Kiddie? LOL, stupid Fuck.>>>
 
I

ImMature

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Ok so I'll put it in simpler terms now:

1) SNK's main target has always been the arcade market, not the home users. D00d let me guess, you're American, ain't you? For the US is prolly the only place in the world where MVS are not dominant in the arcades, so you wouldn't know. What it was irrelevant to SNK sales was the home users and that's a fact

2) Sorry bout my misspell on the last post (blame lack of sleep). What I mean was that the "baker" invested/wasted a lot of money in "ovens" (hardware) he seldom used; the Hyper NeoGeo 64 and the NGPC are good examples of this. Not to mention that SNK continued supporting that aged hardware of theirs till the end

Oh and stop trying to "psychoanalyze" me. Do I feel guilty blah blah and all that garbage; why should I, if I'm an arcade player in the 1st place? I just wanted to clarify a few things you NG.com guys seem to believe here in your little fantasy world and that's just a pile of drivel in the eyes of anyone with half a brain, starting with The "emulation/piracy killed SNK" garbage: Suuure, like it wasn't SNK itself who digged its own grave <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> . Not to mention that the majority of the rom users wouldn't even care about SNK games in the 1st place if it wasn't for emulation, so it's not like SNK was losing big bucks because of it, now is it?
 

Iori Branford

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Well put, EX Andy; PC releases of the KOFs, Slugs, etc. would have saved SNK's ass, plus most modern software requires the original CD in the drive. Even better, we wouldn't have animals like certain unnamed parties barking their lungs out over the emu issue (especially *mM****e, the shame of ON; without him, both boards might just live in peace)
 
I

ImMature

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Originally posted by Rade Kuruc:
<STRONG>EX_andy, you make great, fresh and valid arguments that I agree with. Unfortunately, people like ImMature and Tempest feel fully justified for what they do (or actually what they dont do, which is PAY for games). Don't bother with them.

ImMature, you keep barking up the wrong trees. If I saw anybody that has taken more beatings about this topic than you I'd be surprised. And you really suck at arguing it, as EX_Andy just demonstrated by schooling you. Youre used to it anyways.</STRONG>

Which beatings? You NG.com poseurs STILL have to demonstrate in which way emulation has killed SNK and all that crap you seem to believe and run your mouths about...

So, are you gonna give it a try? I keep waiting <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
 
C

Caris Nautilus

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Originally posted by ImMature:
<STRONG>Which beatings? You NG.com poseurs STILL have to demonstrate in which way emulation has killed SNK and all that crap you seem to believe and run your mouths about...

So, are you gonna give it a try? I keep waiting <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Your still here immature? You cambodian piece of dogshit, I thought a hurricane whiped out your Villiage?
 
I

ImMature

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Originally posted by Drift King EX:
<STRONG>Your still here immature? You cambodian piece of dogshit, I thought a hurricane whiped out your Villiage?</STRONG>

Hey Caris, don't make me make a fool of you *again* <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

Rade K

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ImMature, you keep asking us for proof, but you have none of your own, do you?

We ask the same of you. Until then, you are so obviously wrong. Just a bunch of speculation. Sure, we might not have much more than that, but if SNK wasnt feeling the hurts from the piracy, then why did they encrypt them?
 
C

Caris Nautilus

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Originally posted by ImMature:
<STRONG>Hey Caris, don't make me make a fool of you *again* <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Your a fag, and the sad part is, your master is a real "fag". LOL

Sorry, you lose, run home to gunny and let him lick your wounds, and asshole.
 

Tempestad13

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Yep. it's official.
Caris has shitted on this topic.
Sorry Andy, it's flames and bullshit from here on. You can thank Caris for that. <IMG SRC="smilies/loco.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/makeface.gif" border="0">
 
I

ImMature

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Originally posted by Rade Kuruc:
<STRONG>ImMature, you keep asking us for proof, but you have none of your own, do you?

We ask the same of you. Until then, you are so obviously wrong. Just a bunch of speculation. Sure, we might not have much more than that, but if SNK wasnt feeling the hurts from the piracy, then why did they encrypt them?</STRONG>

I ask you the same, if SNK was being hurted by piracy that much, why didn't they hunt down the rom sites and the emu developers like Nintendo used to do?
 
I

ImMature

Guest
Originally posted by Drift King EX:
<STRONG>Your a fag, and the sad part is, your master is a real "fag". LOL

Sorry, you lose, run home to gunny and let him lick your wounds, and asshole.</STRONG>

Hm? The only fag I remember was that lamer who ran to cry to Shawn about "how ImMature and the ONers were invading NG.com" ie. you yourself
 

Rade K

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Originally posted by ImMature:
<STRONG>I ask you the same, if SNK was being hurted by piracy that much, why didn't they hunt down the rom sites and the emu developers like Nintendo used to do?</STRONG>


How do you know that SNK didn't? I mean, Nintendo does, right, and I'm pretty sure that I can download any Nintendo game I wanted? Again, thats a piss poor lazy argument on your part. For someone as brash and loud mouthed as you are, you'd think you would gather some real knowledge to back your smart mouth up.

This is all just proof that your method of argument on this subject is flawed. please develope a real one.

No matter how much you justify it, your still going to be wrong.
 
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