Metal Slug 3 emulated!!! Nooooooooooooo

chimpmeister

Former Moderator
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Aug 13, 2000
Posts
5,228
Originally posted by neofreak696:
<STRONG>Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</STRONG>

Where? <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2000
Posts
128
I don't think it really matters. Emulators aren't as good as the real thing... Besides, (I am not sure, BUT) aren't emu games only playable in 1 player mode?

Everybody knows the real fun of the Neo lies in it's two player competetiveness. Not to mention the precise control afforded by the best controllers the video game industry has EVER seen!

Who knows...we may even see Slug 3 pop up as a PS one (or next gen system) release eventually anyway.

- Kyle
 
S

Sonic1787DC

Guest
I don't think it really matters. Emulators aren't as good as the real thing... Besides, (I am not sure, BUT) aren't emu games only playable in 1 player mode?
Everybody knows the real fun of the Neo lies in it's two player competetiveness. Not to mention the precise control afforded by the best controllers the video game industry has EVER seen!

Who knows...we may even see Slug 3 pop up as a PS one (or next gen system) release eventually anyway.

- Kyle

Too answer your question, there is no reason why emulation wouldn't be usable for 2 player mode... and a lot of pirates don't care, and will still get a copied ROM image instead of the real item.
 

Dan Elektro

Morden's Lackey
20 Year Member
Joined
May 22, 2001
Posts
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I am for emulation so that games don't die (seen a Mr. Do's Castle machine working lately?) but against emulation for games that are still widely available. I use emulation (MAME, NeoRAGE) to get the screenshots for my reviews here on the site--but I've never reviewed a cartridge I didn't physically own. I guess that makes me one of the few people who uses it "legitimately" but there you go.

Emulation does 2p and in some cases 4p just fine. You can map the controls to the controller or segment of the keyboard of your choice. Nowhere near as much fun or tactile as a physical arcade panel or sturdy joystick, but there are no technical limitations. And hey, I play most of my Neo games alone and I still enjoy them. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

In a case like MS3, where you can still buy the MVS and AES carts, I agree it's not cool. But I think current game designers still have a hell of a lot to learn about gameplay by studying past games, and downloading a ROM for an obscure but enjoyable coin-op to study the gameplay mechanics is, in my view, extremely valid. Emulation has its place.


Edited because I forgot things and didn't want to make a second post.

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Dan Elektro ]
 

FeelGood

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
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Posts
17,794
emulated? Hmmn... didn't notice. Back to playing it on my home system.
 
T

Tapper

Guest
Well... Hate to burst your bubble guys, but emulation has surpassed the real thing. I know people don't like to accept that, but it's now very true.

Not only are the games EXACTLY the same, there are many, many advantages:

-savestates
-online play (yes, it's quite real)
-can use MVS or AES mode, any region
-easy game cheats
-ability to quadruple resolution etc.

As for the conrols/screen comments people still make - that's just denial folks. The days of keyboards and 14" monitors are long over. There have been REAL arcade control panels and even full arcade cabinets available for PC's for years now! Take a look at www.hanaho.com for example (they build Capcom and Sega's arcade cabs in the USA). And PC's have had TV-out for ages.

Truth is, emulation fans have been playing these games (and many more) with real arcade controls on big screen displays for quite some time now.

I think the good old Neo is great, sure. But emulation has surpassed it in every way as far as the game playing experience goes. For hardcore collectors, only the real carts will suffice of course. But I'm talking gameplay.

No offense to anyone here.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Tapper ]
 

Dampfwalze

Armored Scrum Object,
20 Year Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2001
Posts
625
Originally posted by Tapper:
<STRONG>
I think the good old Neo is great, sure. But emulation has surpassed it in every way as far as the game playing experience goes. For hardcore collectors, only the real carts will suffice of course. But I'm talking gameplay.

No offense to anyone here.</STRONG>

What you are talking about is not emulation,
it's pirating.
Like Dan Elektro said, the idea of emulation
was to preserve old games from beeing lost
for all times because of arcade hardware
that is not more functioning.
But this "gameplay" thing is a lousy excuse
for playing without paying.
Same could be said about PSX copies.
"I don't care about manuals and colorful
CD-Cases. I am the real gameplay-fan."

Fine then if you like the gameplay that
much, show it by buying the game.
If you want to play it in "superior" way
on the PC then buy the game and you can
still play it on the PC if you think it's
better there, but without stealing.
Yes I know, SNK is dead. But this is no
allowance to copy their games.
That's like pissing on SNK's grave and
same time saying "Good gameplay guys, I
like you."

No personal offense too, this is adressed to
the whole "emu"-scene.
Just my humble thoughts.

Dampfwalze

PS Please excuse my lousy english. At least
it's better than my french. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 
T

Tapper

Guest
Dampfwalze,

Yes, overall I agree with you. You are correct, from a purely ethical point of view.

I wanted to simply point out the reality of what emulation has achieved. It is amazing now, better than the real thing (if you know how to fully use them). And many people, especially Neo fans, are missing out by ignoring it IMO. Like you said, people can own a Neo AND also enjoy emus.
 

JHendrix

Jello Pudding Pop, Y'know? Like that whole Bill C
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Posts
9,436
Originally posted by Dampfwalze:
<STRONG>What you are talking about is not emulation,
it's pirating.
Like Dan Elektro said, the idea of emulation
was to preserve old games from beeing lost
for all times because of arcade hardware
that is not more functioning.
But this "gameplay" thing is a lousy excuse
for playing without paying.
Same could be said about PSX copies.
"I don't care about manuals and colorful
CD-Cases. I am the real gameplay-fan."

Fine then if you like the gameplay that
much, show it by buying the game.
If you want to play it in "superior" way
on the PC then buy the game and you can
still play it on the PC if you think it's
better there, but without stealing.
Yes I know, SNK is dead. But this is no
allowance to copy their games.
That's like pissing on SNK's grave and
same time saying "Good gameplay guys, I
like you."

No personal offense too, this is adressed to
the whole "emu"-scene.
Just my humble thoughts.

Dampfwalze

PS Please excuse my lousy english. At least
it's better than my french. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


Yeah, you're pirating games that have been released by a company that is now dead. Don't know if it's still illegal or not but honestly there are no reprocussions for it. BTW I can attest to the fact that EMU's have surpassed the real thing when it comes to the Neo.

Peace

JHendrix

PS. Your english is quite good, don't worry about it! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

MDK

Kuroko's Training Dummy
Joined
Sep 28, 2001
Posts
74
I'm sorry, but you haven't lived until you've seen 5 metal slug 3 games going on at once over a school LAN during computer class. Absolutely amazing... Our teacher was so nice she even let us play one game on the projector screen! 72 inches of metal slug 3 goodness. Jeezus, thats the way games were meant to be played.
 

JHendrix

Jello Pudding Pop, Y'know? Like that whole Bill C
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Posts
9,436
Yeah man, we've had Metal Slug 1, X, Blazing Star, SS4 and KOF98 going on the projector at school a few times before I had my MVS setup. We had a whole wall in the lab I work in going with it, it was awesome.

Peace

JHendrix
 

RyoGeo

Global Moderator, Voice of Reason, Member #13
Joined
Aug 14, 2000
Posts
2,495
Hey, Tapper. Welcome top the forums. You make some good points, but I will absolutely deny that emulation has surpassed the real thing. The save states and the many other things you have listed are all very nice options for playing games. It also makes them very easy. Essentially, when you use these capabilities, you are cheating.

Also, and more importantly, the resolution of Neo games in particular is completely WHACK when played on a PC. I have a number of ROMs on my PC that I use for screen shots and even play sometimes, but I also have them all for my MVS cabinet as well. I will tell you that the visual generated from the authentic hardware is far better than that of the PC, emulated versions and here's why.

When not using the antialiasing of the EMU, Neo games look HORRIBLY pixelated due to the imposed VGA resolution. When the antialiasing is turned on, with it's smoothing feature, the image becomes fuzzy especially when viewed on a decent sized monitor. That is decidedly not the case on the authentic hardware. My games look 100% better on my arcade monitor when compared to the EMU.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with many of the points you have made and also believe that many games would be lost to the sands of time without emulation. However, I also believe, through personal experience, that while EMU's are a lot of fun, the real thing still just looks better.

I know these points may seem like nitpicking, but to someone that wants the most true experience, they are pretty important points as well. The games just plain look better on the real hardware.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy yourself on the forums.

[edit]

You guys that are playing in the computer labs, man that sounds like a LOT of fun! That kind of thing was never an option for an old timer like me. I think it's great that your exposing many people to the greatness of Neo that otherwise might never have known. Man, 72 inches of Metal Slug! Epic!

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: RyoGeo ]
 
T

Tapper

Guest
RyoGeo,

Thank you for the welcome. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

As for your points on the display, keep in mind I run my PC to a big screen TV, and also to a real arcade cabinet. The results are perfect displays.

Some sites to explore on these matters:
http://www.arcadecontrols.com http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/

The first is all about using emus with real arcade controls, monitors and cabinets. The second is for a very special version of MAME that works with ANY type of display, even real arcade RGB monitors.

Most emu users are sadly still using NeoRAGEx, which is very outdated. But if you know what you're doing, emus are simply amazing & perfect. Even the display! <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

RyoGeo

Global Moderator, Voice of Reason, Member #13
Joined
Aug 14, 2000
Posts
2,495
Tapper, please stop countering my points with logical responses. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> I'm trying to hold on to something here. <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">
 

Mike

Bead Banger
Joined
Aug 13, 2000
Posts
1,492
I don't understand why the "preservists" are trying to preserve an almost NEW game...
 

Rade K

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Posts
11,835
Originally posted by Tapper:
<STRONG>Dampfwalze,

Yes, overall I agree with you. You are correct, from a purely ethical point of view.

I wanted to simply point out the reality of what emulation has achieved. It is amazing now, better than the real thing (if you know how to fully use them). And many people, especially Neo fans, are missing out by ignoring it IMO. Like you said, people can own a Neo AND also enjoy emus.</STRONG>

Don't hold our hands and tell us of the virtues of emualation. Most of us are well aware of what it can do.

It's still not as good as having the real thing. The actual cartridge with the art, the actual hardware and the joysticks thy were built to be played on.

NO offence, but this discussion is best left for another board.

Don't call us ignorant either, because we are aware of it and are bliss!

You fight a worthless battle on these boards.
 
T

Tapper

Guest
Hehe. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Well, seriously, my real intent is see people enjoy their lives a bit more. I think some people are missing out on some fun here with emus, and that's unfortunate - life is sooo short really. So I just want to set the record straight on things.

Regards, Tapper.
 

nick_th_fury

Baseball Star Hitter
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Posts
1,266
emus are simply amazing & perfect. Even the display!


Hmm, sorry but I beg to differ.
Your right visually, they are excellent.
& if you have real arcade controls for a pc, which I do, they are ever bit as good as the arcade originals.

However, no emu is 100% perfect.
Not even the latest builds of mame.
Timing is where they always fall down, they do not run at the exact same speed as the original neo hardware.
Lets face it, anyone with a cpu faster than 500mhz can get damn close.
So close, it's hella fun.
Perfect? not even. In my book, perfect means I couldnt never tell a difference.
I can, on many games. On games Ive been playing for years, I notice many differences.
Comes from having been a huge fan for years longer than the emu has even supported neo games.
There not perfect, & anyone that has spent years playing neo games could tell in a heartbeat.

Although thats not to say that the emu's dont have their place.
In many ways they are actully superior, sad to say, but its true.
Superior, once again, is not the same as Perfect.


corrected for my spelling. it's just plain bad.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: nick_th_fury ]
 

JHendrix

Jello Pudding Pop, Y'know? Like that whole Bill C
Joined
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Posts
9,436
Nick, what games have you noticed the timing off on. I've been playing lots of games on both systems (MVS and a 800Mhz laptop) and I can't see or more importantly feel a timing difference (which is really important on the fighters). All you have to do is get past a certain threshold and you won't notice the difference at all. In fact on the higher up systems you'll actually be delivering the control data, etc faster than the Neo can take it in, so it gets there as soon as it can as far as the game is concerned.

I mean the CLK of the Neo is I think 12 or 16 MHz. You're 800Mhz or whatever PC will have to dedicate a large amount of those MHz (or processes per second) to converting the Game instructions to the Neo into game instructions for it's own CPU language. However, once you get to the point that the left over "Mhz" or cycles of CPU per second out pace the amount of instructions that the Neo could process in one second, you will have No timing delay's compared to the actual Neo Hardware.

It's really complicated and you will have do dedicate a lot of processes from your CPU to count for a Single process done on the 16Mhz Neo, but at today's speeds you are easily surpassing the Neo in terms of having all the processes it would do for a game be completed in the same amount of time.

Wow I got really techy there. Sorry I'm going to be tutoring a Microprocessors class next semester so I had to read up on the stuff.

Peace

JHendrix
 

nick_th_fury

Baseball Star Hitter
Joined
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Posts
1,266
I can't see or more importantly feel a timing difference


Actully, Where I have noticed it the most, is samurai 4.
Not during standard play, but during combos.
Whenever both players are keying them off, combo's run at a different pace.
very irritating.

The main difference that is easy to catch,
is say Metal Slug 2.
Play it on the neo, then on emu & tell me you cant tell a difference.
The Emu doesnt have near the slowdown.
The Neo Hardware really bogs down on that game.
Now many people would say thats a good thing.
I'm not debating that.
I'm just saying it is different, & therfore not 100% arcade perfect.

you will have No timing delay's compared to the actual Neo Hardware.

Dude, Thats my point exactly.
You just made it for me.
The neo bogs down in many cases where the emu flies.
If youve played a game for years, you know as well as I,
that you aadapt to the Neo's slowdown.
It's part of your strategy, especially in SamSho4.
Take that away, & you have to adapt to it withouht the horrible slowdown.
Therfore, I can tell a difference, as I have to change the way I play.
 

nobu

Stakes Winner
Joined
Nov 23, 2001
Posts
98
Hmmm...i havn't an AES...i can't buy it...i'm 15..eh...than...i use emuz...
...they're good, ok, but...it isn't the same thing...try to think..a big cart of kof01 or slug 3 in ypur hands...a NG in front of you....an arcade stick...switch on...
*dan
dan
dan dannnn
dan
dan
dan dannnnnnnnn...*
no way...emuz are good...but AES is MORE MORE MORE better than these...you can't say that roms are better than home carts...no.. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
 
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