Ban proven scammers

Pep · Oct 8, 2002

May I suggest to automatically ban any proven scammer from these forums?.

Personally I do not feel comfortable sharing this virtual space with such a kind of people. I am also not interested at all in liar’s (that is what they are) opinions.

I think they should be given an ultimatum, and if they do not amend the situation condemned to be banned.

Anybody else shares this opinion?

Thanks
:mad:

FeelGood · Oct 8, 2002

I think it's about time to ban Kyokugen Star.

He won't refund, but now with a german forum, he can sell stuff without having non-german thread readers know about it.

If he is going to scam, let him do so elsewhere. But don't let him stay here. Any rectification of Bahamut's money is up to Bahamut. He knows what he has to do.

SNKJorge · Oct 8, 2002

I agree, all scammers need to be IP perma banned.

KyokugenStar needs to go too.

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: xtoo_short20x ]

Bluevoodu · Oct 8, 2002

All scammers should be pitched.

†B†V†

Takumaji · Oct 8, 2002

Originally posted by EvilWasabi:
I think it's about time to ban Kyokugen Star.

He won't refund, but now with a german forum, he can sell stuff without having non-german thread readers know about it.

If he is going to scam, let him do so elsewhere. But don't let him stay here. Any rectification of Bahamut's money is up to Bahamut. He knows what he has to do.<hr></blockquote>

I'll second that.

Tho banning him won't keep him from buying/selling his stuff, it would end the KS drama on neo-geo.com.

I think for most members who followed the Bahamut-KS case, it's hard to understand why some ppl get suspended/banned quite quickly for foul posts, offensive sig pics or spamming, while known scammers are still allowed to come back.

Also, KS's presence in the German forum causes constant thread hijacking by several board members. I know how some ppl feel concerning the Bahamut case, but I think it sucks to kill legit Neo-related German threads unless they haven't been started by KS himself, even more as some ppl blatantly generalize and give the German members the impression that they are not wanted here.

Average Joe · Oct 8, 2002

If KS hasn't been banned by now I doubt he will be.

I do agree, no need for assholes with no moral values to remain here.

Viewpoint · Oct 8, 2002

Actually the reason Shawn won't ban KyokugenStar is because he refuses to involve himself in other people's transactions.

Unless this person has ripped Shawn off personally, he will not get involved in disputes between 2 different forum members.

I can understand his reasons why he chooses to do this even tho I agree with the rest of you about banning scammers.

This is Shawn's BBS and what he says in the end goes.

RevQuixo · Oct 8, 2002

Unfortunately Shawn's point of view (if that is in fact is stance) is not logical. By providing a buying and selling forum he becomes in part responsible for the transactions that occur through the site. The stance on CDR and bootleg games is evidence of this responsibility. by not booting out scammers it gives them a free pass to peddle their lies on the guise of pseudo-respectability. it'd be like ebay refusing to toss off scammers saying "well we just run the servers...the transactions are none of our concern". If Shawn doesn't want to get involved then the selling forms should be removed.

Viewpoint · Oct 8, 2002

Oh one other viewpoint which should be noted, This whole transaction happened on Ebay and not here.

If this had happened here, It might have had a better chance with being dealt with here.

This didn't happen on Shawn's site so he will not get involved with it.

RevQuixo · Oct 8, 2002

Point taken.

And a good point at that...

/me rubs BK's point.

FeelGood · Oct 8, 2002

Originally posted by BonusKun:
Oh one other viewpoint which should be noted, This whole transaction happened on Ebay and not here.

If this had happened here, It might have had a better chance with being dealt with here.

This didn't happen on Shawn's site so he will not get involved with it.<hr></blockquote>

That's a really good point, but you have to admit that because of what KS did on ebay, the effect on the boards is that a flock of members will swoop on every one of his posts and peck the thread to death. His very presence causes a proplem for the people who may actually want to continue the threads in a regular fashion, but they can't because KS is an asshole, and everyone else is Batman.

Phoenix Down · Oct 8, 2002

I can see Shawn's viewpoint on all of this, however I think a custom rank should be in order (maybe as a compromise to everyone).

The last thing I want to see though is something stupid like Shawn getting sued over something like this. <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

Viewpoint · Oct 8, 2002

Originally posted by EvilWasabi:
That's a really good point, but you have to admit that because of what KS did on ebay, the effect on the boards is that a flock of members will swoop on every one of his posts and peck the thread to death.<hr></blockquote>

Oh I agree with this quite fine. It's quite disturbing that some people are not grown up enough *Looking @ Stephane* to realize it's not their place or within their power to decide to chastize Ralph.

He's already gotten other members of the german forum annoyed by him butting into their threads each time KS has replied.

I personally feel it's rude and disresptectful of the other German members by attacking him in a thread that has nothing to do with him other than he replied to that thread.

The German members who are aware of what Ralph has done are painfully aware of how a lot of people here feel about him.

Ralph sincerely does not care and why should he when he says Bahamut ruined many of his auctions and caused him to have a mess of processing fees so to be honest I would say that Ralph got his just desserts as you would call it.

Originally posted by EvilWasabi:
 His very presence causes a proplem for the people who may actually want to continue the threads in a regular fashion, but they can't because KS is an asshole, and everyone else is Batman.<hr></blockquote>

The main thing you should know Charlie is that not everyone is grown-up enough to know when to shut the hell up when yelling at a brick wall which is what is happening now.

Kyokugen Star = Brick Wall.

Unless he leaves on his own or he scams Shawn personally which is highly unlikly, I would suggest what another member did and just post an image, link or gif in their sig explaining what Ralph did.

It should also be noted that Bahamut has not spoken about this subject in ages so I feel that if anyone stil has a right to bitch at him it should be Bahamut, Not you, not me, not anyone here expect him.

If Bahamut no longer cares to post about this here, why the fuck should anyone else?

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: BonusKun ]

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Viewpoint · Oct 8, 2002

Originally posted by Phoenix Down:
The last thing I want to see though is something stupid like Shawn getting sued over something like this. <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> <hr></blockquote>

That is very highly unlikly. This is a 3rd party affair and did not happen on Shawn's site.

There is no legal grounds as to why Shawn would be sued for the responsibilites of other people's outside business from these forums.

Shawn is not expected or required by law to take action with people who have done bad business outside of NG.com.

That's putting to much responsibilty on his sholders and he doesn't have to deal with it because he's not personally involved other than people posting on his site.

You could generally say since no money was passed from Shawn's hands during this scam, he's not responsible for it.

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: BonusKun ]

Pep · Oct 9, 2002

I was not referring to any particular case; in fact I do not know very well what KyokugenStar did.

Certainly to ban a scammer will not avoid him from scamming people in other forums (international ones) or even if he creates a new account. But at least this will show them that they are not welcome here, and will bother them, and maybe even shame them in public.

I agree that while there is a selling forum and Moderators, there is the duty of taking care of what happens on these boards, and to grant the fairness of what happens here.

For instance, if you look at the selling forum right now you will see a clear case of proven scammer, which has taken place on these boards. Given that, I do not understand why people like Makismo should be banned (I do not want to question this decision at all, and I am not trying to defend him, it is just an example), and on the contrary, scammers, people that directly attack the well faith and confidence that people has with the forums, should not be. Confidence is the basis for Internet transactions, and really pisses me off when people take advantage of others because of their confidence and well faith. Sure always will be people like that, but at least we could make things more difficult to them.

Thanks.

Viewpoint · Oct 9, 2002

Originally posted by Pep:
I was not referring to any particular case; in fact I do not know very well what KyokugenStar did.<hr></blockquote>

He sold a copy of Metal Slug 1 on ebay. Actually his father listed the game and it was stated as an original Neo*Geo NGH cart.

Bahamut bids on the game and the auction ends at $1600.00. Upon getting the game, he finds out that Kyokugen Star had sold him a conversion and not an original cart as the auction had said.

Moving on tho.

Originally posted by Pep:
Certainly to ban a scammer will not avoid him from scamming people in other forums (international ones) or even if he creates a new account. But at least this will show them that they are not welcome here, and will bother them, and maybe even shame them in public.<hr></blockquote>

Again Shawn does not desire to get into disputes between to parties of people. This goes for anyone who does business here.

I don't agree with it but the fact remains that Shawn will not get involved with other people's disputes because it's none of his concern. He stays above this and spares himself *and his mods* from any undue annoyances.

If a person is a scammer, let the people who they scammed deal with them. It shouldn't be up to you, Shawn, Me or anyone else expect the people the person had scammed.

Originally posted by Pep:
I agree that while there is a selling forum and Moderators, there is the duty of taking care of what happens on these boards, and to grant the fairness of what happens here.<hr></blockquote>

The fairness swings both ways tho. In being impartial and not getting involved with seller disputes it allows for people to freely speak what they want when regarding a bad seller or loss of money.

There are mods here who would love to boot Kyokugen Star out on his ass but, Shawn has no desire to play in this pool because of the many possible reprucussions this could invite in his direction.

Originally posted by Pep:
For instance, if you look at the selling forum right now you will see a clear case of proven scammer, which has taken place on these boards.<hr></blockquote>

If you're referring to Chris then you can see full well enough that no mods are needed to deal with this seeing as Buster Broon is quite capable of handling the problem on his own.

People are aware of it and as such Chris is no longer posting because he knows what he did is wrong. I'm sure that people will no longer want to deal with him but banning him would be the last thing needed.

Why ban someone when their name is already dirt? Let the person he scammed deal with him. We're only observers and that's it.

We're not here to play god when someone steals from another member even if we know it happened.

Originally posted by Pep:
Given that, I do not understand why people like Makismo should be banned (I do not want to question this decision at all, and I am not trying to defend him, it is just an example)<hr></blockquote>

Maskimo was banned for threatening the life of another member here.

When someone is retarded enough to make a threat on the internet then that person needs to go bye bye.

Originally posted by Pep:
 and on the contrary, scammers, people that directly attack the well faith and confidence that people has with the forums, should not be.<hr></blockquote>

It's called being able to let people see for their own eyes how a person is here. If someone has scammed someone here, he should have the right to defend himself even if he did do it.

Just remember that it's not the jobs of the mods to get involved in disputes of business. It's their job to keep the peace and keep things on an even playing ground.

Just because Chris didn't refund Buster's money means he should be banned for it. Let him dig his own grave or better yet maybe Chris will finally pay back the money he owes.

Originally posted by Pep:
Confidence is the basis for Internet transactions, and really pisses me off when people take advantage of others because of their confidence and well faith. Sure always will be people like that, but at least we could make things more difficult to them.<hr></blockquote>

Oh don't misunderstand. It pissed me off also but, unless Shawn decides to one day get involved which I know he won't, then the best you can do is just let people know what kind of person that scammer is.

Along with the scamming threads, there are also great seller threads as well so it's an equal playing ground like I said before.

I don't like the idea of letting scammers being allowed to post here but, They have a right to post as long as they want to provided they don't do stupid crap like Maskimo did.

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Takumaji · Oct 9, 2002

Originally posted by BonusKun:


[...]

Kyokugen Star = Brick Wall.

Unless he leaves on his own or he scams Shawn personally which is highly unlikly, I would suggest what another member did and just post an image, link or gif in their sig explaining what Ralph did.

It should also be noted that Bahamut has not spoken about this subject in ages so I feel that if anyone stil has a right to bitch at him it should be Bahamut, Not you, not me, not anyone here expect him.

If Bahamut no longer cares to post about this here, why the fuck should anyone else?

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: BonusKun ]<hr></blockquote>

Well, you already wrote about it, the German forum gets constantly "attacked" in some way by ppl who think that hijacking threads NOT started by KS would help to refund Bahamut. Needless to say that it doesn't.

I agree that basically, we're fighting Bahamut's fight... shortly after the incident, Bahamut disappeared, and apart from two (?) visits, he never mentioned the issue again or even cared to post anything else. So, from this perspective, it's clear to me that the whole case will be solved elsewhere, not on neo-geo.com.

However, the flaming and thread-killing will continue as long as KS is allowed to post here, and that could only be solved by long-term suspending/banning him.

Pep · Oct 9, 2002

BonusKun,

I really understand and respect your opinion or Shawn’s opinion, it is logical, but I simply do not share it. I think Moderators should have an active role, if they simply remain neutral, just observing what happens, then what are they for?.
To ban a PROVEN scammer will not mean to get involver in other’s business, as long as it does not mean to pressure the scammer to pay but simply to avoid him to scam people again, so it will be a preventive measure.

Anyhow, thank you for your time and effort to explain me the situation, that as I said above, I clearly understand.

Thanks again

Atro · Oct 9, 2002

If I modify the quote of Geese Howard in FFS, it would go like this :

Scammers should know their place!

Nice topic!

I agree that a proven scammer should be totally banned for eternity.

Even if haven't scamed Shawn... he's still ruining the good name of this site. this is where the phoilosophy of Shawn is not quite right.

And even Dion and Chris have scammed Shawn... They're still posting. <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" />

Bluevoodu · Oct 9, 2002

honestly... there have been more retarded court cases won.

Its cool that Shawn provides the place... but legally its on his site, he has no "fine print" that says he is not responsible....

In any event... he could be sued at some time... 3rd party or not.

†B†V†

garou_d · Oct 9, 2002

I've nothing against my german friends, but KS must know that there's no place to hide on this forum, even in a german thread.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: garou_d ]

Stephane · Oct 9, 2002

Peoples here forget easily.
And forgive easily.
And i know he wont care, and i think that s not a reason to do nothing.
For me honesty respect and justice is a important thing.
i guess maybe i m in the wrong way, well i will not stop, i m a brick of wall too

Amano Jacu · Oct 11, 2002

I agree with Shawn's point of view. Although he provides us the commercial forums, there's absolutely nowhere where he says that he takes any type of responsability nor he has the time or legal way to do that. In ebay there's a lot of stuff about "trader protection", so they actually have to do something.
The forums are only a place to gather. It's like blaming the newspaper where the scammed announced the deal, or the phone company we used to communicate with him.
About banning KS, at first I thought don't do it because that we we could bash him when he showed up and remind him to solve it, but it's clear it doesn't work. So yes, I would ban him now. Takumajis is right with his point.
Or another possibility for scammers in general is to ban them only from the trading forums.

Cleber · Oct 11, 2002

agree , ban the scammers

garou_d · Oct 17, 2002

Originally posted by Cleber:
agree , ban the scammers<hr></blockquote>

permanent ban <img src="graemlins/angry.gif" border="0" alt="[Angry]" />

Ban proven scammers

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