Do you see 2D games ever being mainstream again?

Do you think it's impossible or are you one of those people who believe anything is possible? Also, say it does become a popular thing to do among game companies and that a lot of gamers would be into it... would you still look at/like 2D games the same as you did before?

Or do you think there's something to that so-called "it's in the minority and I feel good to be a part of a small community" aura?

Or do you just care about the games, regardless of whether there's a giant poster promoting it in the mall or not?

<small>[ March 27, 2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Steve ]</small>

Who wants to be part of a minority?

A revert back to old school hand drawn 2D gaming would kick so much ass I can't even think of it.

It'll never happen though... oh_no

Thats like saying is Micheal Moore going to make an ass out of himself at the awards? Oh wait, it already happened. 2D games will never be popular again. Its a damn shame too. In this day and age, you need 3D graphics in order to impress people, the more realistic, the better, it doesn't matter if the gameplay is the same calibur as Legend of Success Joe. Take a look at the sales for DOA: XBV for example, now look at the sales for PDO. Thats more than a good enough example.

My dream is when there comes a time when 2d and 3d games will coexist in the gaming world. When that happens, then it truly is the promised land.

No, 2D will be niche titles, but that's okay, as long as they are well done, I appreciate them all the same.

If its anything like MvC2 it will be. thats the only way it will grab the mainstream's attention.

but mvc2 was only mainstream cause it's a button masher's paridise. Though I guess all the mainstream are button masher's so it makes sense. I hate the fact that it takes no skill, which some must love. I just wish games of high-skill like capcom vs snk 2 would get the respect and recognition they deserve

Nope, never, no fucking way.

For casual gamers, this would be the equivalent of going back to black and white after the advent of color TV. At least 2D gaming on the big screen will make a small comeback thanks in part to the GBA Player. Since I'm digging my SP so much, I plan to scoop up a Cube just to partake of some Final Fantasy Tactics and Metroid Fusion on the telly. I also plan to give the domestic Cube version of Ikaruga a whirl, gotta support these releases and tell them 'More shooters please.'

As much as I *hate* to admit it, the answer is NOPE! The market and ideology of gaming overall has changed too much, though I'm still bewildered as to why ppl will accept 2-D games on the GBA but scoff at really kick ass 2-D games on the home systems... especially the Neo:Geo with it's 13 year life span (something no other console/hardware can claim).

Nah, 2-D will only be in the *Niche/Alternative market but will all be dead in another 25 years, unless for some reason there's an Andy Warhol like movement with gaming where suddenly it's "genius" to only play 2-D games. Sad but true. oh_no

where are you guys at right now?

cuz where i am sitting, 2D is already in the mainstream..... i'ts called GBA folks. It's immensly popular , and it is 2D....

waiting for the GC GBA-Player........

I'd love to see more 2D games for the current home systems, but I don't think its going to happen.
The 2D revolution that we still love is a thing of the past, but it lives on every time I hit the switch on my Neo CDZ. Sega Saturn and Dreamcast.

Mike

NeoSneth:
where are you guys at right now?

cuz where i am sitting, 2D is already in the mainstream..... i'ts called GBA folks. It's immensly popular , and it is 2D....

waiting for the GC GBA-Player........

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Again... 2-D is accepted as a portable medium but not taken seriously for home systems. If Playmore put every single Metal Slug (about as arcade perfect as could be)... Blazing Star, Shock Troopers (assuming they'd have legality to do this) and a bunch of NEO games on GBA, they'd sell like hot cakes. Brand spanking new 2-D games that would kick ass on the GBA and they'll sell like hot cakes... put those same games on the PS2, XBOX or GC and suddenly the masses with the fickle buying habbits would ignore it and only us die-hards would support it. So yeah, 2-D is mainstream within the confines of portable gaming but no longer in the "Mainstream" in anything else. Heck I'd like to make homebrew shumps and RPG/Adventure games and other stuff for the old Mega Drive, but how many ppl would support it? Not many. BUT, with talanted ppl and put on the GBA those same games would sell. It's all bullshit anyhow... the punk asses who didn't have a hand in the fighting/evolution of gaming pre-Playstation are now in firm control of what sells and what doesn't... but then old soldiers/gamers never die, we just fade away.

It will have its own niche market... and eventually do well due to some retro fad.

Now I would love to see a high res Guardian Heroes....damn

Nope, it won't happen. It's a progression, for better or worse... well, worse in my opinion. Our grand kids will be playing virtual reality games probably. Fuck that.

As for portable gaming, the only reason 2D is still acceptable there is the combination of price and portable technology. As technology gets cheaper and more advanced you'll just have portable 3D gaming systems.

I may be a cynical bastard, but I just think 2D is slowly fading to nothingness. I know, it sucks. crying

will musicals ever be mainstream again? no way in hell.

zorro:
but mvc2 was only mainstream cause it's a button masher's paridise. Though I guess all the mainstream are button masher's so it makes sense. I hate the fact that it takes no skill, which some must love. I just wish games of high-skill like capcom vs snk 2 would get the respect and recognition they deserve

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yuo = wrong.

There is so much shit in marvel I can't do and even think about doing. Took me ages to learn tempest combos, I don't even have a grasp of storm and magneto's air dash combos. I'd like to see you button mash a doom/strider assist trap or magneto's tempest combos or any of storm's crazy off the hook stick to you like white on rice combos.

2D will disappear, I'm sure about that.

I mean, which screen shots of GBA games attrackt the most people ? Indeed, the 3D ones from doom etc.

When there's a portable system powerful enough to support decent 3D, 2D will be history sooner then we think.

For casual gamers, this would be the equivalent of going back to black and white after the advent of color TV.

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Then Why did Clerks hit mainstream? Pi got a similar, yet smaller reaction... Then there is The Blair Witch Project. Anyways, this is just me saying that it will never DIE, more like when it is done right or some aspect of a 2D game is amazing that it will hit mainstream, just not everygame will be 2D.

will musicals ever be mainstream again? no way in hell.

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I know that you are being sarcastic, it just goes to support my first topic.

I mean, which screen shots of GBA games attrackt the most people ? Indeed, the 3D ones from doom etc.

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Hate to break it to you, Doom is 2D that tricks you into thinking that it is 3d.

I absolutely do see it coming back.. in a big way, in fact.

The 3-d craze is just that. It'll still be here in 10 years, but face it.. you can make all the polygonal games in the world, they'll still never make it look EXACTLY like a real person or real life. Plus.. if a game were COMPLETELY LIKE REAL LIFE.. what would be the point? Games are about escapism...

That's where beautiful 2-d comes in.

I mean, no they're not any better.. but it's just easier on the eyes in a lot of cases. A great allegory would be the anime craze rebirth. You'd think in this day and age that american kids would be bowing before the 3-d bonanza that was the FF movie.. but nope! They're buying anime like it's going out of style.

2-d is also more acceptable as an art form than 3-d.

There's also a lot more things you can pack in 2-d than 3-d. With all the processor intensive stuff that goes on in a 3-d enviroment, you can get 10x the output in 2-d with a good programmer.

I think the swing will come back when you get to a point that 3-d becomes so passe' it's just not fun anymore. That's why 3-d took off so much.. it was new, crisp and revolutionary... when it becomes part of the gaming "lexicon" if you will, people are going to want something new and different.

I believe that's what happened with MvC2. There were SOOOO many 3-d fighters out there, it was hard to tell them apart. They packe what.. 55 fighters in one game? All with INSANE animations? It was different and became the biggest fighting game ever. It was fresh and innovative as so far as it was compared to DOA/Tekken/SC/(insert 3-d fighting game here). Yeah, the VS. stuff is a series, but it was like an atomic bomb going off in the arcade. 2-d finally caught up to 3-d in terms of WOW factor.

2-d will come back when they learn how to use it in a correct manner again.. like 3-d used to be. Remember all those games that had 3-d just for the sake of it... (a la Early PSX games) they suck. I mean really terrible. Then they picked up on how to use the medium correctly and now it's the standard. It's going to be like that with 2-d again. MvC2, CvS2... they're great examples of that.

Honestly,

I think it could happen.

Look at the GBA... look at all the 2D games on there and LOOK at the sales.

If game creators could/would make new ones... I think you would have something.

As long as there are "VERY WELL MADE GAMES" people will play them. If they are made crappy... you will see people drifting away

SNES Sales are still VERY HIGH on the used market.... I mean VERY HIGH. I wish we could have a guage of used sales on the market to see how well certain items are selling... and see how it compares to the newer stuff... seriously. I think you would be surprised how well the older stuff still sells.

†B†V†

Then Why did Clerks hit mainstream? Pi got a similar, yet smaller reaction... Then there is The Blair Witch Project. Anyways, this is just me saying that it will never DIE, more like when it is done right or some aspect of a 2D game is amazing that it will hit mainstream, just not everygame will be 2D.

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Because Clerks is one of the gawd-damned funniest movies ever. Clerks is to retail what Full Metal Jacket or Platoon is to Vietnam!

Blair Witch was a cleverly-composed bit of horror flick whose low-grade production values simply added to the film's gritty feel.

Never saw Pi.

That's three b/w films in the last decade, out of thousands of movies. Hardly what I'd call a b/w renaissance. Those movies would have worked whether or not they were b/w, they were simply good movies.

I think it's entirely possible, but it'll be an uphill climb.

I've got a 10 year old brother in law who's main exposure to 2D is through his Gameboy (now Gameboy Advance that lucky lil' shit, jealousy talking here wink ). However, when I showed him some games on my Neo Geo and Turbo, the boy's eyes popped out. He's all the time wanting to play more of these games, despite the fact they're on 10 year old+ systems.

I don't think the kids really care what format a game is in (just look at the success of Gameboy's Pokemon franchise), it's the intermediate ones (guys who grew up on the likes of 8 and 16-bit) and older gamers who are still wowed by the improvements in 3D. I've talked to guys around my age and a little younger who hold an almost rebellious view of 2D since it's so "old". But then, I've noticed my bro-in-law and other kiddies lap up 2D. So I think if the market shifts a little more towards kids, and once developers realize 3D is mostly used as a gimmick and not a means to an end, we might start seeing 2D revival.

But then, with kiddies not having the cash and us hardcore types being a minority, we'll most likely get 3D shoved on the masses for several years to come.

<small>[ March 28, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Lou Gojira ]</small>

When you see the reception the half way house of cell shading gets even in a place like this you've got to say no.

Loopz:
Those movies would have worked whether or not they were b/w, they were simply good movies.

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Exactly the point that I was trying to convey. When a 2D game is released with an idea the is soo good they "would have worked whether or not they were" 2D, "They were simply good" games.

See what I am getting at?

BTW Pi was such a great presentation of a movie that I wanted to learn more about math after I saw the (no lie). GREAT fricking soundtrack too.

BlackSpy:
When you see the reception the half way house of cell shading gets even in a place like this you've got to say no.

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Cel Shading is not that bad.. and can be cool in certain games.


†B†V†

Exactly the point that I was trying to convey. When a 2D game is released with an idea the is soo good they "would have worked whether or not they were" 2D, "They were simply good" games.

See what I am getting at?

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I see what your point is, but I don't think the comparison holds up, since most movie-goers don't flinch over a black and white movie if it seems like it will be good. There is a total prejudice against 2D games though, and I've seen it first-hand. Do you have any idea how many times I recommended Symphony Of The Night at my store, only to have the customer take one look at the screenshots on the back and put it down almost immediately? They then say something like "This game looks like some crappy Super Nintendo game" and then move on to something else.

Bottom line: The game buying public at large views 3D graphics as simply superior overall, and given the architecture of current game systems and those in the works, this is going to be the way it will be from here out. If there's a better comparison, try comparing SILENT movies to those with sound. The average mainstream gamer really is this biased and gfx-motivated.