Should we go to war or not?

I say give the inspectors a little more time and if Iraq still doesn't cooperate then we go in and send them to hell.

War should be avoided at all costs.

I agree that we should wait a little longer... but the truth is, the longer we wait, the better prepared they are. I see where everyone's coming from on this one.

Bush/US/Britain- strike now so they can't strike first (I also don't think we'd be rushing off to fight if the Govt didn't know SOMETHING more than we've been told)

France/Germany/China- Hold off and let the inspectors find something. The more time they have, the more surprise inspections the tougher it gets on Iraq.

Which do I agree with? One day I'm on one side of the fence, the next day I'm on the other. I really hoped Powell would give us something BETTER than he did. Oh well.

This is not a war against Islam. It's a war agains one scary fucking dictator that oppresses the SHIT out of his peeps.

Yes, we should avoid it.

I prefer not to get fucked by anthrax, small pox, nerve gas, ricin, whatever else. He should have taken out 12 years ago, and people want to wait a few more months? oh_no

War isn't going to solve anything.Therefore,no war!

I agree war solves nothing, but as is the history of mankind, until a dedicated cabal of specialists of non-lethal tactics (sorta' like Solid Snake with only Tranquilzer guns) and true assets in the field (not just Satelitte Intel)that could help infiltrate those non-lethal specialits/soldiers working in conjuction with natives of a "Said" nation/province etcetra, who work for the same goals of non-violent revolution/spec ops... then war will always be the solution to world afflictions. Killing only perpetuates a violent cycle, TRUE... BUT, alas it is the only way at this time of the Homo Saipens curve of the spiral of life. Should we wait? Heck No, BUT remember that this isn't Bush declaring a genocide on members of a relgion, it's a protracted war against a dictator and extremeists who don't have the "live and let live" values Christians are supposed to adhere to, thus if you want an omelete you gotta' break some eggs... in this case keeping a protracted sphere of operations under a declaration of war against pockets of ppl within a militant structure is not that big a loss. The bigger loss would be losing 500,000 or more people who are non-combatants in another incident 10 years up the road for not taking an active approach rather than waiting it out. Does the ends justify the means? No, but right now there is no other option other than to not show common sense and then get spiked by whomever, and then have the same pacificts crying for no war right now, literally Demanding the military decimate an entire region of peoples later.

THAT IS ALL...

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: MegaDrive 20XX ]</small>

I'm really torn about this. On the one hand, I don't want everyone to hate the US and I don't want a war if it's not necessary... But on the other hand, if Iraq is really supporting terrorists, then maybe it's best... I don't know. I don't think Iraq would directly attack us...

Everyone wants to have an opinion on this, but no one really knows what the real best solution is, it seems like....

We need to sit this one out I think... War isn't going to solve anything... we kill Sadam there will be 10 more to take his place...Damn, this sucks, this war is going to be REALLY BAD.

-Nick

nruva:
We need to sit this one out I think... War isn't going to solve anything... we kill Sadam there will be 10 more to take his place...Damn, this sucks, this war is going to be REALLY BAD.

-Nick

Click to expand...

I don't sanction killing ppl in cold blood or anything, BUT shit! It just seems ppl really don't have the stomach to do unsightly or bloody things even if they don't want to anymore. Of course this mentality is rife within our society since we have soooo much to lose with all of our self important lifestyles, and cul de' sac suburban communities right? You don't see people who've never HAD anything or have been oppressed in a way Americans haven't been since our own bloody revolution to be independent of Britian afraid to bomb ppl, kamikaze planes into "soft" targets, poison water supplies, etcetra do you? Of course not. WAR sucks but what can you do? Let ppl of a higher threshold for violence and offensive guerrilla tactics just do as they please? I find it funny (I'm speaking for Americans) those who forget that our meeky present day-to-day lives who's worries are about the movie they're going to see before boffin' the chick they've had their eye on, or what title they'll hold a decade from now, is only possible because every generation HAS to have elements of people from the same pool of everyday ppl to do the things most could not stomach... so that this way we've come to expect can last. The price of freedom is not cheap. When the day comes that the military or some kind of civilian/para-military spec ops devoted to non-lethal methods with semi-auto air powered rifles, pistols or spetsdods shooting tranquilzers and temporary muscle paralysis forms, I'll not only back them but join them... until that day however, most of us don't have to agree with the choices that are bigger than us made on our behalf, but we shouldn't protest the very people/organizations whom fight, kill and often die on our behalf either! The amount of complacency and non-common sense I see bewilders me. If our forefathers could see this why can't the masses see it?

Oh and don't think for one minute that we're so civilized that war in and within itself will ever go away. THAT's what I mean about no common sense let alone understanding of geo-political/military issues! In the future, providing a deity (GOD for me, you chose your religious perspective) dosen't destroy us first... mankind will mirror life on Earth to their own liking, when things don't go their way or someone questions a protocol... BAAAM! Some giant star ship obliterates a million and a half ppl. So don't anyone give me what crap about civilzed peoples. Sure, they'll no doubt be non-lethal specialists cadres, and practishoners/supporters of the admin behind it, but until the last man draws breath, or Jesus returns as stated in Revelations, the innate barbaric nature of man will never end. While I'm no expert in any of this mind you, I've studied enough of this, lived enough around military justice and way of living to know that, one should not HAVE to agree with what's going on, but protesting the same people who don't want to be there anymore than the masses want war is ridiculous and seditious IMO. I don't agree 100% with it, but I'll support it none the less. It's like the old saying goes, better to die standing up like a man, than to go out lying down or begging on one's knees. I for one don't have to agree, but I salute the efforts of men and women I'd gladly be apart of but the armed forces won't have me due to a medication I'm on. *And I'm not picking on you personally nruva, it's just your viewpoint on this best personafies the trend I see with ppl waiting to just get spiked, and I for one will never understand that mentality.

THAT IS ALL.

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: MegaDrive 20XX ]</small>

MegaDrive 20XX:

nruva:
We need to sit this one out I think... War isn't going to solve anything... we kill Sadam there will be 10 more to take his place...Damn, this sucks, this war is going to be REALLY BAD.

-Nick

Click to expand...

I don't sanction killing ppl in cold blood or anything, BUT shit! It just seems ppl really don't have the stomach to do unsightly or bloody things even if they don't want to anymore. Of course this mentality is rife within our society since we have soooo much to lose with all of our self important lifestyles, and cul de' sac suburban communities right? You don't see people who've never HAD anything or have been oppressed in a way Americans haven't been since our own bloody revolution to be independent of Britian afraid to bomb ppl, kamikaze planes into "soft" targets, poison water supplies, etcetra do you? Of course not. WAR sucks but what can you do? Let ppl of a higher threshold for violence and offensive guerrilla tactics just do as they please? I find it funny (I'm speaking for Americans) those who forget that our meeky present day-to-day lives who's worries are about the movie they're going to see before boffin' the chick they've had their eye on, or what title they'll hold a decade from now, is only possible because every generation HAS to have elements of people from the same pool of everyday ppl to do the things most could not stomach... so that this way we've come to expect can last. The price of freedom is not cheap. When the day comes that the military or some kind of civilian/para-military spec ops devoted to non-lethal methods with semi-auto air powered rifles, pistols or spetsdods shooting tranquilzers and temporary muscle paralysis forms, I'll not only back them but join them... until that day however, most of us don't have to agree with the choices that are bigger than us made on our behalf, but we shouldn't protest the very people/organizations whom fight, kill and often die on our behalf either! The amount of complacency and non-common sense I see bewilders me. If our forefathers could see this why can't the masses see it?

Oh and don't think for one minute that we're so civilized that war in and within itself will ever go away. THAT's what I mean about no common sense let alone understanding of geo-political/military issues! In the future, providing a deity (GOD for me, you chose your religious perspective) dosen't destroy us first... mankind will mirror life on Earth to their own liking, when things don't go their way or someone questions a protocol... BAAAM! Some giant star ship obliterates a million and a half ppl. So don't anyone give me what crap about civilzed peoples. Sure, they'll no doubt be non-lethal specialists cadres, and practishoners/supporters of the admin behind it, but until the last man draws breath, or Jesus returns as stated in Revelations, the innate barbaric nature of man will never end. While I'm no expert in any of this mind you, I've studied enough of this, lived enough around military justice and way of living to know that, one should not HAVE to agree with what's going on, but protesting the same people who don't want to be there anymore than the masses want war is ridiculous and seditious IMO. I don't agree 100% with it, but I'll support it none the less. It's like the old saying goes, better to die standing up like a man, than to go out lying down or begging on one's knees. I for one don't have to agree, but I salute the efforts of men and women I'd gladly be apart of but the armed forces won't have me due to a medication I'm on. *And I'm not picking on you personally nruva, it's just your viewpoint on this best personafies the trend I see with ppl waiting to just get spiked, and I for one will never understand that mentality.

THAT IS ALL.

Click to expand...

Blahh blahhh blahhh, self righteous dribble. I have seen such ill mannered psychological and philosophical babble from you it makes me turn a little on the inside. You can ramble incoherently and impress many, but not all. I simply don't like what this war is sizing up to be. Although I know it is inevitable, I wish we would not have to get involved... Is war the only answer, maybe... it is a scary thought though, and this will not be a bloodless war... Many Americans will die, and I really think this is going to go down as another NAM... I just hope for the best, and as said before, I will do what is asked of me if called on… I am not afraid to serve my country, I just fear for it right now… and I don’t think we are in good hands,

-Nick

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: nruva ]</small>

Kill Saddam, setup a democratic government in Iraq.

The people will be happy, no more getting tortured or killed or whatever for speaking against "the President" Saddam.

-JHendrix

nruva:
Blahh blahhh blahhh, self righteous dribble. I have seen such ill mannered psychological and philosophical babble from you it makes me turn a little on the inside. You can ramble incoherently and impress many, but not all. I simply don't like what this war is sizing up to be. Although I know it is inevitable, I wish we would not have to get involved... Is war the only answer, maybe... it is a scary thought though, and this will not be a bloodless war... Many Americans will die, and I really think this is going to go down as another NAM... I just hope for the best, and as said before, I will do what is asked of me if called on… I am not afraid to serve my country, I just fear for it right now… and I don’t think we are in good hands,

-Nick

Click to expand...

One word Modern Warfare. The largest part of a war with these people will take place from a distance. Capet bombing and cruise missle attacks. Follwed by armored columns and Apache helecoptor attacks. Ground troops would be put in after all the above has reduced the country into a confused state of emergency for Saddam's forces. Who if you remember the last time we encountered them they were more interested in surendering to get a decent meal than fighting. Even is it comes to a building to building urban war we have marines ready and willing to go to it. Hell between the Marines forced recon, Special forces, Rangers and other specialized military forces we have at our disposal a ground war would hard fought by our side. And yes there would be casulties but what do you expect it's War!

And they say that in the first Gulf War only about 10% of our weapons were "smart" weapons, but this time over 80% of them would be. In the last 10 years, we have developed satelitte-guided bombs, which can be made at a fraction of the cost of a cruise missle, and will greatly reduce the risk of errant bombs killing people.

It's not going to be that difficult. People are freaking out about nothing. The US can take him out, and then if the rest of the world would get off their lazy asses and help with the rebuilding, this thing will be a snap.

Of course if we wait until he has a nuclear weapon, or a way of distributing smallpox or such, and he says "OK, NOW come bomb me motherfuckers!", well then we'll all be standing there with our dicks in our hands, won't we? :o

This is going to be a much different affair, people. I read an article yesterday about how the Pentagon, for the first time ever, is debating the merits of cremating mass casualties right on the battlefield if there are deaths from chemical and biological agents due to the potential for massive contamination. This has never been discussed before, since the policy has always been to ship remains home in a flag-covered coffin. Saddam isn't even intent on attempting to fight this war conventionally like last time, he has his troops all dug in around Baghdad and other major cities, prepared for street-based urban warfare, the kind which always leads to casualties no matter what preventative measures are taken. Not to mention the fact that his officers have all been authorized to use chemical and biological agents if defeat is imminent. The big wild card here is whether or not his troops will remain loyal if an American assault is about to happen...we can hope that his cronies, knowing some god-awful shit is about to happen, will finally turn on his ass and wipe out his family. Lord knows loyalty to Saddam only goes as far as his ability to kill whoever's deemed a traitor.

On CNN.com, they just announced that they're upgrading the National Terrorism Threat level to Orange, the 2nd highest alarm. Scary times, folks.

Go ahead and set up a democracy and see who gets voted in.

What a joke.

These same people - the civilians - are taking up arms in preparation to kill the oncoming invaders. They are miserable, but I guess they believe that their way of life is their own and nothing of concern for the US.

EvilWasabi:
Go ahead and set up a democracy and see who gets voted in.

What a joke.

These same people - the civilians - are taking up arms in preparation to kill the oncoming invaders. They are miserable, but I guess they believe that their way of life is their own and nothing of concern for the US.

Click to expand...

I think propaganda on Iraq's side could be to blame for that. Just like what the Japanese said would happen to their civilians if American soldiers got a hold of them. Many Japanese blew themselves up in tunnels and jumped to their deaths, children in thier arms.

Loopz:
This is going to be a much different affair, people. I read an article yesterday about how the Pentagon, for the first time ever, is debating the merits of cremating mass casualties right on the battlefield if there are deaths from chemical and biological agents due to the potential for massive contamination. This has never been discussed before, since the policy has always been to ship remains home in a flag-covered coffin. Saddam isn't even intent on attempting to fight this war conventionally like last time, he has his troops all dug in around Baghdad and other major cities, prepared for street-based urban warfare, the kind which always leads to casualties no matter what preventative measures are taken. Not to mention the fact that his officers have all been authorized to use chemical and biological agents if defeat is imminent. The big wild card here is whether or not his troops will remain loyal if an American assault is about to happen...we can hope that his cronies, knowing some god-awful shit is about to happen, will finally turn on his ass and wipe out his family. Lord knows loyalty to Saddam only goes as far as his ability to kill whoever's deemed a traitor.

On CNN.com, they just announced that they're upgrading the National Terrorism Threat level to Orange, the 2nd highest alarm. Scary times, folks.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with you fully here Loopz... this is one of the reasons I think it is going to be so fucked up. Sadam has no interest in playing "fair" so to speak... This is going to get nasty.

And MegaDrive 20XX, although you can get a bit preachy at times, I didn't mean 90% of what I said last night. I had a fight with a friend and I was a bit pissed off. I got no problems with you buddy... so sorry for the attack,

-Nick

Hey nruva it's no thang, It takes a lot to offend me anyhow and we're all just stating our rightfull opinions on a matter that will no doubt effect everyone. I admit to being preachy, it's why I drive my GF and some of my droogs up the wall, but it's just how I am is all.

Hope you have a good day ^_^