N. Korea Warns U.S. on Strike, Says Entitled to Pre-Emptive Attack on U.S.

aria

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This article is out of the NY Times. The question that kept popping up in my head as I read it is: Are we getting ready to attack the lessor of two problems? I bolded a few passages of note.

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February 6, 2003
North Korea Intensifies War of Words With U.S.
By DON KIRK

SEOUL, South Korea, Feb. 6 — North Korea stepped up its verbal bombardment of the United States today, warning of "total war" if the United States dared to attack its nuclear complex.

The North fired its strongest salvo a day after declaring that its five-megawatt reactor was up and running "on a normal footing" after what it said was its "restart."

The United States defense secretary, Donald H. Rumsfeld, added to the war of words by charging that North Korea was ruled by "a terrorist regime" that had been "involved in things that are harmful to other countries."

Mr. Rumsfeld made the remark to the armed services committee of the House of Representatives as he and other high-level officials in Washington and Seoul sought to discern how seriously to view North Korea's claim that the reactor was now operational.

The North Korean party newspaper, Rodong Sinmun, warned of the consequences if the United Staates seriously considered a pre-emptive strike on the nuclear complex, saying "a surprise attack on our peaceful nuclear facilities" would "spark a total war."

Making clear the potential of North Korea to wreak havoc on South Korea and possibly targets in Japan, the commentary said it would be "foolish for the United States to think that we sit idle with folded arms to wait until it gives orders" to initiate the attack.

The inference of the commentary was that North Korea might be the first to strike if the United States built up its forces in the western Pacific, as the Pentagon has indicated may well happen.
The North Korean commentary appeared as a response to the disclosure that the United States is preparing to send two dozen bombers to Pacific bases while senior American officers have reportedly requested an aircraft carrier and additional troops to brace up the defense of South Korea.

The United States ambassador to South Korea, Thomas Hubbard, acknowledged the threat posed by North Korea's 1.1-million troops, 80 percent of them within 50 miles of the demilitarized zone between the two Koreas.

"Your country would be the one most immediately and directly affected should, God forbid, conflict break out again," he reminded an audience of senior South Korean officials and foreign ambassadors tonight. The North, he said, "has the capability to devastate Seoul and neighboring areas through conventional forces alone."

The remark reflected what is viewed as the central reason why the United States shrinks from attacking the North Korean nuclear complex at Yongbyon, site of the nuclear reactor. Intelligence officials believe North Korean artillery, most of it at least a generation old, could in a day pour thousands of shells on the Seoul metropolitan area, including the surrounding province and the port city of Inchon, where half of the South's 48 million people live.

Mr. Hubbard sought, however, to temper the sense of crisis generated by North Korea as well as comments from Washington by pledging "the support and cooperation of the United States" for efforts of President-elect Roh Moo Hyun to seek "dialogue with Pyongyang within the framework of a broad international effort."

The reference to an international effort reflected American insistence on including other countries in any negotiations with North Korea, which has been equally adamant in stating that it wants negotiations only with the United States.

While American officials seemed to think that the North had raised the stakes in the confrontation by saying that it had restarted its reactor, South Koreans did not seem nearly so concerned.

Mr. Roh, addressing economic officials and foreign business leaders at the end of a two-hour panel discussion on South Korea's potential as Asia's leading financial center, drew applause as he remarked, "Please don't worry about investing in Korea."

He was, he said, "going to assure peace on this Peninsula" of his basic commitment and was going "to prevent war on this peninsula."

At the foreign ministry, a senior official scoffed at the latest commentary from Pyongyang, calling it "a repetition of their usual rhetoric." As for Mr. Rumsfeld's remark referring to North Korea's leadership as "a terrorist regime," the official said he was commenting "only in general terms."

Officials in both South Korea and the United States, however, have derided North Korea's claim that it was operating its reactor at Yongbyon "for the production of electricity," observing that the reactor was not capable of generating more than minimal amounts of electrical power.

American intelligence analysts are still greatly puzzled by satellite imagery that has shown trucks covered with tarpaulin moving in and out of the reactor site.

One suspicion is that the trucks are picking up the 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods that North Korean technicians removed from a cooling pond after withdrawing from the nuclear nonproliferation treaty in December and expelling inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency on New Year's Eve. The next step would be to extract plutonium, from which technicians could then produce nuclear warheads.

American officials here and in Washington said that North Korea, at every stage of stepping up the crisis, has further cut itself off from the rest of the world.

"We are not trying to isolate North Korea," Mr. Hubbard said tonight. Rather, he said, in another plea for a multilateral solution, "North Korea's leader is doing that himself, by pursuing dangerous weapons programs and by refusing to engage the international community on the subject."

Mr. Hubbard pointedly avoided mentioning the North Korean leader, Kim Jong Il, by name. Both President Kim Dae Jung, author of the South's so-called sunshine policy of reconciliation with the North, and President-elect Roh, who has vowed to continue the policy, refer to him as "Chairman Kim," a reference to his post as head of North Korea's national defense commission.

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Bobak ]</small>
 

Rade K

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Thanks, Bob.


Also, thank-you for endlulging my short attention span. Though I found it insulting that you assumed I had one...even though you were right,

FU padre.

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Rade Kuruc ]</small>
 
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An interesting read, thanks Bobak. Seems no matter where you turn there's going to be a conflict/war of some sort. Who knows, if world terrorism is ever licked then the federals will turn to the age old dream of disarmament and iron boot diplomacy within it's own borders. Either way, as said in the movie Gang's of NewYork... "The blood stays on the blade."
 

Shred

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They seem to forget that we have bombers that can fly from here to there. If they were needed to. And If we were going to bomb them I would hope that we would be smart enough to take out more than just the nuclear reactor. Large groups of artillary makes a big target too.
I just hope it doesn't come down to that though. One War at a time here guys.
 

FeelGood

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the idea of a full scale war with the undernourished NK army is laughable at best.

Of course they'd have to strike first.

The first plan of action would be to rob the south korean supermarkets and farms of all the food they could get.

just kidding.

We all know China would back them up 110% from behind the curtains.
 

BryLmoo

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I've always believed that Korea was a bigger threat...
 

Kid Aphex

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EvilWasabi:
We all know China would back them up 110% from behind the curtains.
You'd think so...but China doesn't want NKorea having nukes either. It completely disrupts the whole region.
 

aria

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EvilWasabi:
We all know China would back them up 110% from behind the curtains.
Would they? At first glance, you can either to think back to the support of the Korean War (but China was very different back then under Mao); or they point to the current competition between the US and China.

I'll quickly address the second because I think the first is moot: China and the US are competing economies, period. A war in NK would cause major problems to the Chinese economy. Any shipping coming out of Northern China/Beijing would be at risk -shipments would get delayed, flights delayed, etc -it could become catastrophic.

Predicted Result: China will try to prevent a war at all costs through mediation, if one started it would try to end it ASAP (they'd be like Iran is in regards to Iraq/Afghanistan: yelling not to do anything, but not getting involved covertly or overtly).
 

aria

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Shred:
They seem to forget that we have bombers that can fly from here to there. If they were needed to. And If we were going to bomb them I would hope that we would be smart enough to take out more than just the nuclear reactor. Large groups of artillary makes a big target too.
I just hope it doesn't come down to that though. One War at a time here guys.
There's no doubt the US would clean NK off the map if it came down to it. That's why, as EW pointed out, they need the first strike.

The problem is the NK first strike is terrifying. It would kill thousands of Koreans, Americans, and possibly Japanese.

I remember reading a Time article years ago (when I used to read Time, so I guess it must've been High School) where they gave a NK surprise-attack scenario. The affect on the demilitarized zone was pretty grim. Remember: They've been planning for this since the Cease Fire.

There's only, officially, a Cease Fire between everyone in the Korean War -so as some commentator view it, we're technically still in a conflict.
 

Kid Aphex

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I don't understand NK's rationale.

They've been likened to a starving man pointing a gun to his head...and I can agree with that. I see the analogy.

What I don't understand is why they're fueling the fire. And they are. Even our trigger happy president feels this problem can be solved without fighting...You'd figure NK, who would get demolished, would chill.

I understand they're wanting to be taken seriously...but with today's news, its getting ridiculous. A blatant, LITERAL threat to our country?

How is that not more important than the misty threat Iraq supposedly poses currently?
 

Shred

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Bobak:
EvilWasabi:
We all know China would back them up 110% from behind the curtains.
Would they? At first glance, you can either to think back to the support of the Korean War (but China was very different back then under Mao); or they point to the current competition between the US and China.

I'll quickly address the second because I think the first is moot: China and the US are competing economies, period. A war in NK would cause major problems to the Chinese economy. Any shipping coming out of Northern China/Beijing would be at risk -shipments would get delayed, flights delayed, etc -it could become catastrophic.

Predicted Result: China will try to prevent a war at all costs through mediation, if one started it would try to end it ASAP (they'd be like Iran is in regards to Iraq/Afghanistan: yelling not to do anything, but not getting involved covertly or overtly).
Yes China would not want a war to endanger their shipping routes. Also if there was a war in that area it would have impacts on American companies that currently have facilities in China. I know I wouldn't want to go on a buisness trip to China if their was a war going on right there.
 

Shred

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Bobak:
Shred:
They seem to forget that we have bombers that can fly from here to there. If they were needed to. And If we were going to bomb them I would hope that we would be smart enough to take out more than just the nuclear reactor. Large groups of artillary makes a big target too.
I just hope it doesn't come down to that though. One War at a time here guys.
There's no doubt the US would clean NK off the map if it came down to it. That's why, as EW pointed out, they need the first strike.

The problem is the NK first strike is terrifying. It would kill thousands of Koreans, Americans, and possibly Japanese.

I remember reading a Time article years ago (when I used to read Time, so I guess it must've been High School) where they gave a NK surprise-attack scenario. The affect on the demilitarized zone was pretty grim. Remember: They've been planning for this since the Cease Fire.

There's only, officially, a Cease Fire between everyone in the Korean War -so as some commentator view it, we're technically still in a conflict.
Yes it would be that is why if you wanted to go after the reactor you would need to hit the artillary and any missle sites simultaneously.
 

aria

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Kid Aphex:
I don't understand NK's rationale.
I don't think anyone does. That's why their a such a risk.

There's a theory that their trying to use their first-strike capability as a bargaining chip for more aid from other countries, but that way they're going about it keeps pushing the limits of sense. Every time I think their threats can't get more extreme, they do (It's happened at least three times in the last month).
 
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I think this is yet another attempt, following in a long history, of getting some more money and food from the USA. It's quite possibly a bluff to get just that. Personally I don't give a thought to who's the bigger threat right now. I am glad that we are doing something to protect ourselves for the future. One bad guy at a time if that's what it takes.

I'm not going to judge Bush's cabinet for deciding on Iraq over NK right now, because you know what? I think people like Bush, Rumsfeld, and Powell are in a much better position to make these judgement calls, and I'm willing to trust that judgement. Not because I'm some mindless conservative zealot, but because I'm smart enough to realize that I am not privy to the information that our elected officials are.

I disagree with Bush on alot of issues, but I don't believe for a second that he's making decisions that are bad for Americans. I don't think he's some evil idiot who's trying to ruin his and my country. So, I'm going to trust him that he is doing whats right for the US, you know, the country he took the oath to protect at all costs?
 

aria

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Shred:
Yes it would be that is why if you wanted to go after the reactor you would need to hit the artillary and any missle sites simultaneously.
Interesting. That scenario seems possible -assuming if it does happen, it would leave NK to attack with its remaining 1.1 million soldiers. How well they do it is up to plenty of speculation.
 

Metal Slug

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China cant afford to risk its trade agreements with the west.

But is NK enough of a threat to risk an armed conflict?

Or would they be best left alone at the moment.

Is the west now going to forcibly disarm non-western powers that aquire nuclear weapons?

If so, then when will we do Pakistan? Or India? Or Israel, Or even China?


Not that I mind particularly if India has them.
I doubt they'd ever use them less wisely than we would.
Besides, India is a great ally of the United Kingdom wink
But the double standards are getting a bit much recently.

Why the hell the British haven't used force in Zimbawe is beyond me.
 

aria

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GunstarHero:
I think this is yet another attempt, following in a long history, of getting some more money and food from the USA. It's quite possibly a bluff to get just that. Personally I don't give a thought to who's the bigger threat right now. I am glad that we are doing something to protect ourselves for the future. One bad guy at a time if that's what it takes.

I'm not going to judge Bush's cabinet for deciding on Iraq over NK right now, because you know what? I think people like Bush, Rumsfeld, and Powell are in a much better position to make these judgement calls, and I'm willing to trust that judgement. Not because I'm some mindless conservative zealot, but because I'm smart enough to realize that I am not privy to the information that our elected officials are.

I disagree with Bush on alot of issues, but I don't believe for a second that he's making decisions that are bad for Americans. I don't think he's some evil idiot who's trying to ruin his and my country. So, I'm going to trust him that he is doing whats right for the US, you know, the country he took the oath to protect at all costs?
Well, to be fair the administration, NK only started doing this stuff late last year. I think there's definitely a correllation between US focus on Iraq and the sudden emergence of a defiant NK.

The US has been trying very, very hard to convince the rest of the world that attacking Iraq is the right thing to do (needless to say, they've been fighting skeptics left and right), so the last thing they want is to have to also explain why NK is becoming a sudden problem.

NK is probably playing its cards knowing that. So long as the US is trying to get consensus on Iraq, NK can say "We're now going to flip a coin to see whether we should bomb Osaka" and the US would probably the chances. Yes, that's a bit of an overstatement -but I wonder if the increasing bravado/defiance of these NK declarations is their way of testing how focused we are on Iraq.

Actually, (I've developed a new, realization while writing this post) it should be noted that NK has made this declaration just after Powell made a, by many accounts, successful presentation to the UN. NK, presumable, may have decided that, since things seem to be going full steam ahead, now is the time to really get daring and assert itself as "powerful." Hmm... Method appears in the madness smirk
 

FeelGood

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How come nobody gives us food and money for all the bitching we have to listen to?
 

BIG

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Man,I just hope it doesn't come down to war with NK.Two-front war never work,just ask Hitler.NK seems more like a threat than Iraq,but they don't have to be.Like I said before,George W. Bush is our biggest national threat.Instead of picking on Iraq and NK,why don't they do something about Israel,Pakistan,and India while their at it?They are all in violation of having Nukes as well!Let's not forget the Soviet Union and China,both also equipped with Nuke capabillities.I just can't understand the point of all this.It's like if you had a gun to protect yourself,it's all good.What about if someone else decide to get a gun to protect themselves from you?Would that be wrong?I didn't think so_Oh,well,just another two cents added to the grand total........
 

Shred

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Bobak:
Shred:
Yes it would be that is why if you wanted to go after the reactor you would need to hit the artillary and any missle sites simultaneously.
Interesting. That scenario seems possible -assuming if it does happen, it would leave NK to attack with its remaining 1.1 million soldiers. How well they do it is up to plenty of speculation.
Yeah 1.1 million ground pounders are a little easier to deal with if it's not raining artillary shells on your head. Lets just hope this is all talk on NK side so we don't have to worry about attacking two countries at the same time.
 

FeelGood

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I think it's just a matter of which annoying ass fly to swat first. Honestly, I don't feel threatened by either of them.

It's like playing that whack-a-mole game and they all pop up at once and you're like "WTF which one should I whack first???" so you just sit there dumbfounded and confused until one of the moles whacks you then you kick it's ass and finish off the other ones. Do you really think NK is stupid enough to try a "pre-emptive" attack against the US? WTF are they going to do besides piss us off? Don't nobody want to piss off the fucking US.

I thought I heard somewhere that the US military is greater than the rest of the world combined? Is this true? Who the hell is NK that they think they can roll with the big boys?

BTW: Give us oil.

Thanks.

EDIT: The only thing the US has to worry about are the weaker neighboring countries that NK may take out its aggression on. If it wasn't for that little obstacle we would prolly just trash them on our way to Iraq. Since they are there, however, we have to be a little more careful.

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: FeelGood ]</small>
 

Bluevoodu

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this is somewhat frightening...

I know this sounds stupid.... but I was listening on a few profits (new day ones) .. yes they are reputable... and I do not believe in astrology... etc... but he said:

in 2003 there will be some kind of strike aroudn the capital.. some kind of chemical weapons.. or agents were all over.

well... I know its stupid to be paranoid about that... but what if they did strike 1st with a nuke?

Sure... we could bomb the hell out of them, but that doesn't take away what they did. Hopefully we get our missile defense system up.

NK diffinitely does freak me out.. and it bothers me that SK didn't care that much.

I say... cut off NK's resources and let them starve to death. Why give support to them if they are going to be dicks? WE give millions to them... and other countries and get no respect for it.
If we take away their money... maybe they could try to hit that "fire" button..... but they would be shaking so bad from the hunger that they wouldn't be able to do it... that.. or they would eat each other.

†B†V†

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Bluevoodu ]</small>
 

Lagduf

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I don't understand what North Korea would have to gain by launching a pre-emptive strike. To my knowledge they wouldn't even be able to hit the lower 48 states. What would NK gain by attacking south korea or japan or any of the other oceanic nations?. Thats what bothers me the most, that NK would possibly attack another nation just to get at the US. In my opinon that would just be a cowardly move on thier part. I don't think anyone in that region wants a war so if NK decided to start one i have a feeling they would recieve no mercy from the US and other free countries.
 

BlackSpy

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arf. really, the US demands the right to a first strike against anyone without repurcussions and if anyone should suggest they might like the same privelage...
 
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