Interesting Article on the [not so good] State of Nintendo

Kid Aphex · Jan 23, 2003

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20030123/tc_nm/tech_nintendo_dc" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20030123/tc_nm/tech_nintendo_dc</a>

Maybe during the next console wars, they'll aim for an older target audience?

I'm still happy with mine. Oh well....

[ January 23, 2003, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: Kid Aphex ]

Caris Nautilus · Jan 23, 2003

Not trying to start a war, but so much for "no new hardware for 8 years" or whatever it was. After I read that long speech by some nintendo guy about releasing a new system with PS3/XB2 etc. is like cooking for someone who's already full.

Spike Spiegel · Jan 23, 2003

Man, as well as Playstation products are selling, I cannot imagine a world where Sony doesn't own the hell out of the video game market. How will they EVER be dethrowned?

Spike

NebraskaDragon · Jan 23, 2003

What is going on with Nintendo these days? It started back with the N64. Virtually the only games I own for the N64 and GC are first party titles. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo's first party games are probably my farovites, but they need to get their ducks in a row. How much longer can they hold out selling only their games for their systems?

FeelGood · Jan 23, 2003

I just can't understand the sales numbers. I mean, there just shouldn't be 8 million PS2 buyers in one month. Maybe there's a guy in New Mexico who is useing them like brik-a-brak to build a house.

BTW, Kid A - nice sig pic.

k'_127 · Jan 23, 2003

EvilWasabi:
I just can't understand the sales numbers. I mean, there just shouldn't be 8 million PS2 buyers in one month. Maybe there's a guy in New Mexico who is useing them like brik-a-brak to build a house.

<a href="http://mb.vgdirectory.com/game011003.htm" target="_blank">like it or hate it</a> looks like it's true

- Sony announced they have sold a total of 8.5 million units of PlayStation 2 worldwide during November and December 2002, increased by 24% from last year. Here are the breakdowns:

PAL - 3.4 million units (+27% from 2001)
US - 4 million units (+42% from 2001)
Japan - 920,000 units (-27% from 2001)

from the magic-box

evil wasabi · Jan 23, 2003

where the hell are all these ps2 buyers coming from? the damn things been out for 2 years now, and it still has substantial numbers like that? something is fucked up.

is it just me or is this the SHORTEST console 'war' ever? 2005? fuck that, man in 2 years i gotta buy new shit, and i still dont have all of this shit? wtf??

if ps3 does its whole, 'lets link ps3's to form a happy happy multiprocessing network and download our game and pay to play' etc. then sony will fail. god i hope that happens

Kid Aphex · Jan 23, 2003

EvilWasabi:

BTW, Kid A - nice sig pic.

Saddam is buying them all for those missile guidance systems. Remember that shit?

THANKS for the compliment wasabi...a fellow lexx fan????????

peace,
ray

k'_127 · Jan 23, 2003

sonic1687:
where the hell are all these ps2 buyers coming from? the damn things been out for 2 years now, and it still has substantial numbers like that? something is fucked up.

is it just me or is this the SHORTEST console 'war' ever? 2005? fuck that, man in 2 years i gotta buy new shit, and i still dont have all of this shit? wtf??

if ps3 does its whole, 'lets link ps3's to form a happy happy multiprocessing network and download our game and pay to play' etc. then sony will fail. god i hope that happens

you know, being a PS fan since that green covered "gamefan mag" with a "guardian heros" pic on it (I'm not joking), I don't know wether to be happy or not with all these games out there now. not only you will find yourself spending all your money on games but also you won't find enough time to play. FUCK . miss one game and there is no chance for getting it later

but still, I don't want to see sony fails at that

evil wasabi · Jan 23, 2003

They won't fess up but they'll be 3rd party in 3-5 years

Blaine · Jan 23, 2003

The great thing about Nintendo, that most people don't seem to get, is The GameCube is NOT it's flagship product. Their console is no longer thier main product, whether they want it to be or not. The GBA is thier main product. Then first party games and then the GameCube.

I PROMISE you Nintendo is fine. I mean, by years end, the GBA will be outselling all of the consoles (it's been doubling the PS2's sales for the last few months and with Pokemon now out and Final Fantasy coming out it'll just keep on like that), top that off with they will be the #1 software developer, sales wise, at the end of this quarter probably at the end of the year (again, 3 million units of Pokemon sold in what, 3 months? A million of SMS, Zelda is guarenteed a million and if they release that Pokemon game for the Cube, they'll probably sell a million of that as well. I don't know what EA is going to do this year, but they're in for a run, they usually have 3 big sellers Madden, NBA Live and NHL.).

Alright, all that shit aside (it may smack of fan-boyism, but it's the truth. I like Nintendo, I like Sega, I like a lot of companies it's just lately Nintendo is the gameworld's whipping boy) it's dick that they're going to push up the release by like 3 years, but they still want to be in competition for the console title.

But with the GBA and whatever else handheld they come up with, and Pokemon and thier first party titles selling however umpteen million games...they can afford it. Everyone seems to back the X-Box because Microsoft has deep pockets, that is cool but Nintendo not only has money but it's game systems are MAKING money.

Don't get me wrong, I think Microsoft is here to stay. They have no problem throwing another 10 billion after an already spent 2 billion.

But if you think Nintendo is going anywhere soon, you're out of your mind.

P.S. I personally feel all companies are guilty of fixing thier sales numbers directly or indirectly. But with Microsoft's losses, which really don't make sense, I wouldn't be amazed if they were buying consoles back to up thier sales.

All three could do it, but it's just MS's deficiet that really says "hey, something is amiss".

Kid Aphex · Jan 23, 2003

k'_127:

sonic1687:
where the hell are all these ps2 buyers coming from? the damn things been out for 2 years now, and it still has substantial numbers like that? something is fucked up.

is it just me or is this the SHORTEST console 'war' ever? 2005? fuck that, man in 2 years i gotta buy new shit, and i still dont have all of this shit? wtf??

if ps3 does its whole, 'lets link ps3's to form a happy happy multiprocessing network and download our game and pay to play' etc. then sony will fail. god i hope that happens

Click to expand...

you know, being a PS fan since that green covered "gamefan mag" with a "guardian heros" pic on it (I'm not joking), I don't know wether to be happy or not with all these games out there now. not only you will find yourself spending all your money on games but also you won't find enough time to play. FUCK . miss one game and there is no chance for getting it later

but still, I don't want to see sony fails at that

I'd hate to see nintendo become a third party dev also; but there's such a stigma with the nintendo name nowadays. as if its not cool to play their games; they're too kiddy and uncool.

Nerd alert, you dweebs. You're fucking playing videogames. You're not cool. edit- unless you're me.

[ January 23, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Kid Aphex ]

Blaine · Jan 23, 2003

Kid Aphex:
...there's such a stigma with the nintendo name nowadays. as if its not cool to play their games...

That's a better way of putting it than calling them "whipping boys".

The only reason it seems like I get pissed at people saying things about Nintendo is because lately that's all people do.

It'd be the same if they were talking about Sega, SNK, Treasure, Two Zed, UGA or whoever else produces games that I really enjoy.

And with Compile going away very recently, it's just all the more apparant that you need to support the games you like. Because if you don't, no one else wil, you know?

I almost feel guilty somehow for not buying Puyo Pop. I have a GBA. I like the Puyo series (although I agree with wasabi there are some pedo-homosexual overtones). 25 million is a lot of money to you and I, but to a game company? Shit they were a few HUNDRED million in trouble and managed to dig out to 25. I don't know, if more people had bought thier last product...*shrug*.

Nick Goracke · Jan 23, 2003

Kid Aphex:
I'd hate to see nintendo become a third party dev also; but there's such a stigma with the nintendo name nowadays. as if its not cool to play their games; they're too kiddy and uncool.

And there's a stigma with the Sony name that if you play games on their system, you're suddenly not "hardcore", and there's a stigma...

You get the idea. And as always, I think Nintendo's stigma in particular is offset by parents starting their kids out with Nintendo (heh, maybe a positive effect of that idea) and more experienced gamers buying their stuff based on past successes.

It's not a good excuse for poor sales of the GC, IMO. It wasn't a good excuse for poor sales of the N64 either. They don't have the support they need from other companies, and it's been painfully obvious for, like, 7 years. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

But the Nintendo fans in this thread are absolutely right - just like Square or Sega, Nintendo's been in this business too long - they aren't going anywhere. Gloom and doom sales numbers over a couple of years are just the results of some bad decisions, not a collapse.

I will say this, though... Should Sony or Microsoft pull their heads out of their asses and release a competing portable game system, Nintendo *may* run into some trouble on the hardware side of things. Honestly, how many years do you have to watch one company make millions with a monopoly before you figure out "hey, there's money to be made in this market!"

Earthquake · Jan 23, 2003

I think we can all agree that gaming has gone to hell. Gaming is simply not gaming anymore. Instead, next-gen games feel like long books and when you finish one, you never want to pick it up again. I own 1 freaking game for my PS2 and by the systems end, I'll probably own 3 tops. Screw it, gaming is not fun anymore!

RyoGeo · Jan 23, 2003

Hey, Blaine, no fanboy'ism in calling the GBA the Nintendo flagship product. It is no doubt the thing that allows Nintendo the ability to even have a set top console in the first place is that little, handheld gold mine. They make a TON of money with it, and every cart that goes outthe door pads their pockets as well.

They could survive on GBA alone, no question. BTW, that new configuration for the GBA looks kickin'. I like the idea of the Lithium Ion battery and the size of it folded is sweet. Lit screen can't hurt either.

Average Joe · Jan 23, 2003

As much as I don't want to say this, but the big N might be better off if they just pulled a Sega.

Become a 3rd party developer for Sony and Microsoft, but still focus on the handheld market as well (they could easily survive off the GBA's profits alone).

Do I like saying that?

No.

Did I want that to happen to Sega?

No.

But look how easily Sega adapted, and look how quickly people came to recognize them as a 3rd parter developer.

Let's face it, most of Nintendo's claim to fame is it's 1st party titles and franchises, if they were to focus all their time and attention on recreating old gems and producing new classics, I think that would be a great way to rebuild some lost ground.

Jumping the gun and trying to be the first out the door may not be the answer they are looking for (again look in Sega's direction).

I do hope things work out for them though, I really want to see Nintendo stay in the console market, if they are lost, then the face of gaming as we all knew it would have been lost, and it would give way to a new era of gaming, ruled by a shoddy electronics producer and the god of windows.

Ugh.

Suddenly I hate Sony and Microsoft.

[ January 23, 2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Average Joe ]

Bluevoodu · Jan 23, 2003

Spike Spiegel:
Man, as well as Playstation products are selling, I cannot imagine a world where Sony doesn't own the hell out of the video game market. How will they EVER be dethrowned?

Spike

Nintendo has picked up A LOT since the N64. Many people moved from the N64 to the DC and Ps2.

They just haven't found a reason to move back.

As the above is quoted... I remember people saying that about Nintendo in the SNES era. Remember, the champ only has 1 way to go.

DOWN.

I don't think Nintendo is doing as bad as the think. I mean.... look, many businesses are doing bad despite our economies. Sony is the ONLY system maker making money on their systems. Both GCN and especially XBOX (this is not criticizing Xbox) are losing money.

If they would cite how well the 1st Party Nintendo games have sold.. that would be a different story I think. Nintendo is far from out of the game. once you let the lead slip, you can only gain it back slowly.

I say don't give up on the cube.. and make the next Nintendo unit ABLE TO PLAY YOUR OLD CUBE GAMES DAMNIT... and heck.. if there was a slot you could plug your N64 games into also... that would be 100% top notch!

I would easily pay $50 more for that.

†B†V†

Bluevoodu · Jan 23, 2003

sonic1687:
where the hell are all these ps2 buyers coming from? the damn things been out for 2 years now, and it still has substantial numbers like that? something is fucked up.

is it just me or is this the SHORTEST console 'war' ever? 2005? fuck that, man in 2 years i gotta buy new shit, and i still dont have all of this shit? wtf??

if ps3 does its whole, 'lets link ps3's to form a happy happy multiprocessing network and download our game and pay to play' etc. then sony will fail. god i hope that happens

remember all thePs2 systems failing? these are being bought to replace them. Although... those numbers REALLY do seem screwed up. I cannot image a SYSTEM selling more than the Ocarina of Time did in its life time. OOT made some series selling records too...

BTW... anyone see that the GCN Ikaruga got 10,10,8,8 = 36/40

†B†V†

Bluevoodu · Jan 23, 2003

Blaine:
The great thing about Nintendo, that most people don't seem to get, is The GameCube is NOT it's flagship product. Their console is no longer thier main product, whether they want it to be or not. The GBA is thier main product. Then first party games and then the GameCube.

I PROMISE you Nintendo is fine. I mean, by years end, the GBA will be outselling all of the consoles (it's been doubling the PS2's sales for the last few months and with Pokemon now out and Final Fantasy coming out it'll just keep on like that), top that off with they will be the #1 software developer, sales wise, at the end of this quarter probably at the end of the year (again, 3 million units of Pokemon sold in what, 3 months? A million of SMS, Zelda is guarenteed a million and if they release that Pokemon game for the Cube, they'll probably sell a million of that as well. I don't know what EA is going to do this year, but they're in for a run, they usually have 3 big sellers Madden, NBA Live and NHL.).

Alright, all that shit aside (it may smack of fan-boyism, but it's the truth. I like Nintendo, I like Sega, I like a lot of companies it's just lately Nintendo is the gameworld's whipping boy) it's dick that they're going to push up the release by like 3 years, but they still want to be in competition for the console title.

But with the GBA and whatever else handheld they come up with, and Pokemon and thier first party titles selling however umpteen million games...they can afford it. Everyone seems to back the X-Box because Microsoft has deep pockets, that is cool but Nintendo not only has money but it's game systems are MAKING money.

Don't get me wrong, I think Microsoft is here to stay. They have no problem throwing another 10 billion after an already spent 2 billion.

But if you think Nintendo is going anywhere soon, you're out of your mind.

P.S. I personally feel all companies are guilty of fixing thier sales numbers directly or indirectly. But with Microsoft's losses, which really don't make sense, I wouldn't be amazed if they were buying consoles back to up thier sales.

All three could do it, but it's just MS's deficiet that really says "hey, something is amiss".

sorry for the 3rd.. but I agree with your last point.. are they still losing $177 milliong per 3 months?!

that seems crazy.

I also agree with the GBA... nothing can touch that. We'll have to see what happens when other companies release their handhelds.... and see which way the hype turns. Every company that has gone against the GBA has seemingly died.

And On the point that Nintendo should go 3rd party... They shouldn't. It didn't do much for sega. They are STILL having to cut costs due to low holiday sales... and their future is somewhat grim. Sega cannot seem to pull back very well... and you can see that in their P & L and financial statements.
Honestly... if Nintendo ever died out, I would not be able to buy a console again (newer one) because no company has the ideals of Nintendo.. etc.. trying to keep games they way they should be..... FUN/engaging/creative , Period.

†B†V†

[ January 23, 2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Bluevoodu ]

Nick Goracke · Jan 23, 2003

Earthquake:
I think we can all agree that gaming has gone to hell. Gaming is simply not gaming anymore. Instead, next-gen games feel like long books and when you finish one, you never want to pick it up again. I own 1 freaking game for my PS2 and by the systems end, I'll probably own 3 tops. Screw it, gaming is not fun anymore!

Not sure what you're playing, but I've played some of the best games of my life in this generation...

The only thing that isn't fun is people getting down on new trends (because it's not what they're used to) and not having a good time because of it.

Blaine · Jan 23, 2003

As far as "should Nintendo go 3rd party". I don't know. As I see it they don't want to. And, frankly, they can afford not to.

If you think of it in financial terms...would Super Mario Sunshine have sold more copies on the PS2? I think it might have. Would it have sold like 3 times as much? I'm not so sure but I'll accept that as resonable.

Okay. So Nintendo sold three times as much, right? So they made three times as much, right?

Well...no. First and foremost, a cut goes to Sony. It's thier console and depending on the licence Nintendo would have they may have to pay them before or after x amount of time. How much, I don't know, I'm not a multibillion dollar game company nor do I work for one. But suffice to say they'd have to pay for the right to publish on the PS2.

Second, development costs. Dev kits. Nintendo's inhouse studios probably pay pennies on the dollar for the Cube development hardware and software, compared to what someone like... Silicon Knights would, a smaller company not creating a Nintendo licenced game.

Not to mention developing on the PS2, a piece of hardware they don't know inside and out, it would take longer for the same quality and they'd probably have to bring on more people (and at the risk of assigning hardware favortism, the GameCube has a reputation for being easy to develop for, i.e. requiring fewer men and man hours to accomplish the same task on another system.[See Tony Hawk 3 for example]) so that means the game costs even more to make.

Beyond that you still have issues like advertising, marketing and merchandising which would all have added costs.

Since I don't have all these figures handy, nor do I even know how to begin to calculate them, it's really little more than an intellectual experiment.

BUT, it is certainly apparant that having their own console, even if it's not the number one console, can and probably does afford Nintendo advantages that make the smaller user base worth the while.

Bluevoodu · Jan 23, 2003

Blaine:
As far as "should Nintendo go 3rd party". I don't know. As I see it they don't want to. And, frankly, they can afford not to.

If you think of it in financial terms...would Super Mario Sunshine have sold more copies on the PS2? I think it might have. Would it have sold like 3 times as much? I'm not so sure but I'll accept that as resonable.

Okay. So Nintendo sold three times as much, right? So they made three times as much, right?

Well...no. First and foremost, a cut goes to Sony. It's thier console and depending on the licence Nintendo would have they may have to pay them before or after x amount of time. How much, I don't know, I'm not a multibillion dollar game company nor do I work for one. But suffice to say they'd have to pay for the right to publish on the PS2.

Second, development costs. Dev kits. Nintendo's inhouse studios probably pay pennies on the dollar for the Cube development hardware and software, compared to what someone like... Silicon Knights would, a smaller company not creating a Nintendo licenced game.

Not to mention developing on the PS2, a piece of hardware they don't know inside and out, it would take longer for the same quality and they'd probably have to bring on more people (and at the risk of assigning hardware favortism, the GameCube has a reputation for being easy to develop for, i.e. requiring fewer men and man hours to accomplish the same task on another system.[See Tony Hawk 3 for example]) so that means the game costs even more to make.

Beyond that you still have issues like advertising, marketing and merchandising which would all have added costs.

Since I don't have all these figures handy, nor do I even know how to begin to calculate them, it's really little more than an intellectual experiment.

BUT, it is certainly apparant that having their own console, even if it's not the number one console, can and probably does afford Nintendo advantages that make the smaller user base worth the while.

Especially with the amount of games that they sell 1st party.... I mean.. they have atleast sold 3 million 1st party games in the last 6 months... AT LEAST.

I think Nintendo should/would be able to stay open.. because they have a loyal following.

And who knows... they have had a great 3rd party support and very nice GCN exclusives... with many more to come. I think this is a pretty good "make up" from the N64. Like I said.. its going to take them some time to make up their foothold they lost.

I think it would be cool... if they tried experimenting with a new virtual boy (in color). that system had a lot of potential... a lot.

Also, I know I already stated this, but their new system needs to be able to play GCN games too... and it would be 100% beneficial if the new system could play N64 games as well.. that would be very nice.

†B†V†

Blaine · Jan 23, 2003

Bluevoodu:
Especially with the amount of games that they sell 1st party.... I mean.. they have atleast sold 3 million 1st party games in the last 6 months... AT LEAST.

I agree with you, but 3 million is a conservative estimate.

They sold 3 million copies of Pokemon in the past two months. Super Mario Sunshine sold a million in both the US and Japan (I think...pretty sure it did.), Mario Party 4 sold a million world wide (again, don't quote me. I know its at 500,000 in Japan, I think the US and Europe total another 500,000). I'd go so far as to say 5 million in the past 6 months, and I wouldn't be scared to say 6.5 or maybe 7 million games (if you factor in all of the GBA games, not all of them sold 500,000 copies but a lot of them sold 1,2 or 300,000).

I agree whole hearted with the Backwards compatibility, if possible. I think they might do it, becuase they (and everyone else) seems very happy with the current architecture.

N64 compatiblity...I'd rather see SNES compatability. The N64 was too much of a flop.

Full color Virtual Boy is an idea, but I personally think they lost the balls to do it when they fired Gunpei Yokoi. May he rest in peace.

Bluevoodu · Jan 23, 2003

Blaine:

Bluevoodu:
Especially with the amount of games that they sell 1st party.... I mean.. they have atleast sold 3 million 1st party games in the last 6 months... AT LEAST.

Click to expand...

I agree with you, but 3 million is a conservative estimate.

They sold 3 million copies of Pokemon in the past two months. Super Mario Sunshine sold a million in both the US and Japan (I think...pretty sure it did.), Mario Party 4 sold a million world wide (again, don't quote me. I know its at 500,000 in Japan, I think the US and Europe total another 500,000). I'd go so far as to say 5 million in the past 6 months, and I wouldn't be scared to say 6.5 or maybe 7 million games (if you factor in all of the GBA games, not all of them sold 500,000 copies but a lot of them sold 1,2 or 300,000).

I agree whole hearted with the Backwards compatibility, if possible. I think they might do it, becuase they (and everyone else) seems very happy with the current architecture.

N64 compatiblity...I'd rather see SNES compatability. The N64 was too much of a flop.

Full color Virtual Boy is an idea, but I personally think they lost the balls to do it when they fired Gunpei Yokoi. May he rest in peace.

yeah, but there are a lot of good N64 games man... that would be an awesome idea.

Now.. it would even be better if they offered a Nintendo brand converter then... that would allow you to use SNES/NES games in that slot (just a small add-on coverter for $20-30).

That would be some awesome Nintendo marketing right there. Enjoy all games on 1 system.

†B†V†

Interesting Article on the [not so good] State of Nintendo

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