The American Who Fought With the Taliban

aria

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I thought this article was a bit chilling. I guess Johnny decided to go medival.


---------------------------
The American Who Fought With the Taliban


'American Taliban' Fighter Says Followed His Heart

KABUL (Reuters) - A 20-year-old American who fought for the Taliban and survived a bloody prison uprising near the northern Afghan city of Mazar-i-Sharif last week said his heart had drawn him to the hardline Islamic movement.

``I was a student in Pakistan, studying Islam and came into contact with many people connected with Taliban,'' John Walker said in an interview shown on CNN television on Monday. He was being held by U.S. forces in northern Afghanistan (news - web sites).

``I lived in the region, the North West Frontier Province (of Pakistan),'' he said. ``The people in general have a great love for the Taliban so I started to read some of the literature of the scholars, the history of Kabul ... my heart became attached to that.''

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which is running the military campaign in Afghanistan, confirmed that a man who said he was an American was in the control of U.S. military forces.

``Military forces in Afghanistan do have in their control a man who calls himself a U.S. citizen,'' Marine Major Brad Lowell, a Central Command spokesman, said.

``He was among the al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners; he was held by the Northern Alliance in Mazar-i-Sharif. He is injured and is being given medical assistance by U.S. forces,'' Lowell told Reuters.

The CNN clip showed the man appearing dirty, with a long beard and grimacing as if in pain as he answered questions from a stretcher.

He was described by Newsweek magazine's Web site as ``a white, educated-sounding, apparently middle-class American'' who identified himself as Abdul Hamid. It said he was taken into custody on Saturday at a hospital where he had been taken for treatment of minor gunshot and shrapnel wounds.

Hamid was identified by his parents as John Phillip Walker Lindh, of Northern California, according to Newsweek.

His parents told Newsweek they had contacted officials at the State Department and the U.S. Embassy in Pakistan but had received no information.

SAW PHOTO ON INTERNET

Marilyn Walker said on Sunday that the photo of her son that appeared on Newsweek.MSNBC.com was the first indication that she had had of his whereabouts since he left a religious school in Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province, where he had been studying the Koran, seven months earlier.

John Walker, who uses his mother's last name, told Newsweek he had traveled across the border to Afghanistan to help the Taliban build a ``pure Islamic state.'' He told CNN he had gone to the Afghan capital, Kabul, and volunteered to serve the Taliban.

Because he did not know the local languages, he said, the Taliban told him to contact forces supporting Osama bin Laden (news - web sites). He said he received combat training at a camp in Northern Afghanistan, fought with Pakistani allies of the Taliban in the disputed region of Kashmir (news - web sites) and then returned to fight recently with the Taliban at Kunduz, Afghanistan.

John Walker was born in Washington in February 1981, Newsweek said. He is the second of three children of a home health care worker and a lawyer, Frank Lindh. His mother said he spent the first 10 years of his life in the Washington suburbs of Maryland, moving to Northern California in 1991.

John's father, Frank Lindh, who is divorced from Marilyn Walker, said that his son took to Islam naturally. ``I support him and his studies,'' Lindh said. ``He's learned Arabic and is memorising the Koran. He's a very good scholar.''

Marilyn Walker said she was shocked by her son's statements of support for the Taliban and bin Laden. ``If he got involved with the Taliban, he must have been brainwashed,'' she told Newsweek. ``He was isolated. He didn't know a soul in Pakistan. When you're young and impressionable, it's easy to be led by charismatic people.''

The parents said they did not know if he would be charged with a crime but would stand by him.

Referring to his son's study of languages and dedication to religious studies, Lindh told Newsweek: ``I'm proud of John. He's a really good boy. A really sweet boy.''

NO COMMENT ON LOCATION

The special forces soldiers who detained Walker took him aside for treatment and later left with him, doctors told the magazine. A Northern Alliance military source said the U.S. soldiers had taken him to Mazar-i-Sharif, Newsweek said, adding that U.S. forces refused to comment on his whereabouts.

Walker told Newsweek earlier he was a Washington native but indicated he grew up elsewhere in the United States. He said he converted to Islam at the age of 16 and later went to Pakistan to study the Koran, Newsweek said.

Walker said he came into contact with Taliban teachings while studying in Pakistan and traveled to Afghanistan six months ago to help ``because the Taliban are the only government that actually provides Islamic law,'' the magazine reported.

He fought with the Taliban at the siege of Kunduz in northern Afghanistan and surrendered along with hundreds of other fighters after the two sides negotiated a deal.

He was later transferred along with hundreds of other prisoners to Qala-i-Jhangi fortress west of Mazar-i-Sharif, where a revolt broke out a week ago. The uprising was violently put down by U.S. warplanes and Northern Alliance ground forces.

Several hundred prisoners were believed killed. A CIA (news - web sites) officer was also killed in the uprising, the first reported American combat death in Afghanistan.
 

Bhm

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Wow, that certainly is chilling

Sheesh, what makes people do stuff like this? I mean, ok peasants in need of a belief and food for the day but an american citizen born and raised in the US? I mean your view of the world has really got to be skewered to join the TALIBANS and support the sc. "islamic" law of shariyah and everything it brings with it...

May the all burn in "Jahandam" or whatever hell is called in Afghanistan <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

icon18.gif


// Bhm
 

Taiso

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Well, as much as it hurts to say this, he had the right to choose his side. Maybe one day, this John Walker guy will wake up, smell the coffee and realize that one of the GOOD things about America is the right to make that kind of choice. The right to think like an oppressive terrorist dirtbag. He didn't like the country, so he got out to be with his kind. Good for him, I guess.

Too bad for him, though. Now he'll end up reaping what he's sown. I hope he factored this outcome in when he made his decision to go be with the Taliban.

Check your PM, Bobak.
 

aria

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Could you imagine being his family or a school mate and seeing him on the internet?

I wonder what kind of gamer he was... He probably stuck to the fundamentals <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/loco.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

Bhm

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I bet he didn't like Metal Slug 2 (level 1) <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

// Bhm
 

Sifl

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See you in hell, traitor.

I bet he didn't like stage 4 in MS3 either
 

Taiso

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I don't HATE this guy for being an American that decided to join the Taliban. He made his choice, and he chose the Taliban. It's his life and he can do with it what he wants.

I wouldn't do it...I'd rather live in the USA than anywhere else (although I've been to England and it's pretty cool there, too). But his life is not my life.

I just wonder if he's ready for the coming backlash of having made that choice.
 

FeelGood

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What strikes me is the "brainwashing"

Any of you guys get picked up by a Moonie? One of these people who follow that korean guy (who owns 20 exotic cars and 20 wives), it's like a cult.
When I was 17 I was walking around NYC after working that day, and some young woman asked me to do a survey,a nd then it moved into religion, and I was a little more agnostic then (the most vulnerable mindset IMO).

Anyhow, she asked me questions and then asked me to come with her for a drink, and she was a young woman, so I was like "sure, whatever. Better than going home and jerking off." Anyhow, she took me to this center where the moonies live, and introduced me to some other moonies. I told her I had a tight schedule, and couldn't spare anymore time and split. Too bad I tossed her card - could have given it to someone that would have made a difference with it (FBI). Walking alone, a kid in NYC, not dressed like a hood - I must have looked like a tastey sheep to the wolves.

So anyhow, long tangent, but the moral is that pirhannas and sharks never go after a strong creature, but instead the ones that appear weakened. A lone man with no friends, who can't communicate well? There you go.
 

aria

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I remember there was a problem at my university my first semester there with this cult called the "LA Church of Christ."

If you were walking alone, they'd approach you (usually in pairs -a master and an apprentice, no joke!).

They'd be all nice and invite you to either kick back with them or go to a service. Well, my first week there I was approached by one of their, well, dumber members who just started an interesting conversation on Central American governments and how he escaped Nicaragua -so, since I was new in college and making new friends I went to go meet his "friends" on campus at their house. I sensed something might be up so I left a note with my roommate that said "If I'm not back by X time call the police to X address."

So I head over to their place and there's like all these normal looking but kind of strange people watching TV (imaging a bunch of people who look fried, but without any drugs). Well, I'm kind of a loud and boisterous person so I just start going around saying "hey, what's up?" -shooting the shit and what-not, and I guess the heads of that group started making eyes at the guy who brought me in order to say "WTF! Who's this? I said bring a weakminded person not an ego-maniac." Well, after keeping them all uncomfortable for an hour or so (and kicking their asses at fusball) -I went home and never heard from them again. Then I found out that their a notorious cult. Guess I passed that test <IMG SRC="smilies/loco.gif" border="0">
 

aria

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Originally posted by EvilWasabi:
<STRONG>Anyhow, she asked me questions and then asked me to come with her for a drink, and she was a young woman, so I was like "sure, whatever. .</STRONG>

Heck, if your into beautiful cult members, just hang out near the L. Ron Hubbard building on Hollywood Blvd (or any other Scientology center). Damn! Their almost as good as the pretty girls who hand you tickets to strip joints on the Promenade and in front of Laker games.
 

neojedi

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Actually I had a Psych class where a lecture touched on that subject. According to the prof, the cult members did look for loners... and similar to Wasabi's case, they enticed them with recruiters of the opposite sex! <IMG SRC="smilies/drool2.gif" border="0">

So if you're a lone guy, they'd throw either a lone woman or better yet, a man and woman who are obviously involved, and an unpaired woman who hangs with them. And if your will isn't up to the task, then they might just have you by the balls. <IMG SRC="smilies/glee.gif" border="0">

[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: neojedi ]
 

benares

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Originally posted by Bobak:
<STRONG>I remember there was a problem at my university my first semester there with this cult called the "LA Church of Christ."

If you were walking alone, they'd approach you (usually in pairs -a master and an apprentice, no joke!).

They'd be all nice and invite you to either kick back with them or go to a service. Well, my first week there I was approached by one of their, well, dumber members who just started an interesting conversation on Central American governments and how he escaped Nicaragua -so, since I was new in college and making new friends I went to go meet his "friends" on campus at their house. I sensed something might be up so I left a note with my roommate that said "If I'm not back by X time call the police to X address."

So I head over to their place and there's like all these normal looking but kind of strange people watching TV (imaging a bunch of people who look fried, but without any drugs). Well, I'm kind of a loud and boisterous person so I just start going around saying "hey, what's up?" -shooting the shit and what-not, and I guess the heads of that group started making eyes at the guy who brought me in order to say "WTF! Who's this? I said bring a weakminded person not an ego-maniac." Well, after keeping them all uncomfortable for an hour or so (and kicking their asses at fusball) -I went home and never heard from them again. Then I found out that their a notorious cult. Guess I passed that test <IMG SRC="smilies/loco.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

LOL!!1 <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> Bobak you are an asset to this website <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

neobuyer

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I know this will sound harsh and all, but this guy needs to be the first one tried by 'military tribunal' and then quickly executed: Russian style- a bullet behind the ear.

Citizenship revoked.
 

Sifl

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Article 104, UCMJ

Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or

(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;

shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

EDIT: spaced everything out, made it easier to read.

[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Sifl ]
 

FeelGood

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Originally posted by neobuyer:
<STRONG>I know this will sound harsh and all, but this guy needs to be the first one tried by 'military tribunal' and then quickly executed: Russian style- a bullet behind the ear.

Citizenship revoked.</STRONG>


Do you know why we execute a person with a bullet to the lower rear of the head? The brain's motor functions rest in that area, and so destroy it will cause immediate and definite termination of said person, cutting their motor neuron transmission. A bullet to the front of the brain does not always ensure death, and can give said person time to react (fire motor neurons!).

This si what they teach you in psychology class. That and how to brainwash 4 US soldiers in a Korean POW camp.
 

aria

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Originally posted by EvilWasabi:
<STRONG>
This si what they teach you in psychology class. That and how to brainwash 4 US soldiers in a Korean POW camp.</STRONG>

You saw the Manchurian Candidate too? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

You can't try him in a military tribunal because he's a US Citizen. We can only take away the right of non-citizens <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

It's as annoying as Oregon getting snubbed by the BCS (I hate the damned BCS).
 

neobuyer

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Originally posted by Bobak:
<STRONG>You can't try him in a military tribunal because he's a US Citizen.</STRONG>

You are right about that, Bobak.

I guess we'll have to keep our heads cool and bring him back to the states and give him a trial- and we all know he'll never get the old bullet-behind-the-ear treatment in the States anyways...

Better hand him over to the Alliance.

But come on guys- there would be an exquisite moment of justice if one of our guys, upon hearing he was an American citizen who joined the Taliban, just shot him- like in that famous Viet Nam stock footage of that prisoner getting brained with that pistol, eh?

Whoops, casualty of the uprising <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

FeelGood

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Originally posted by Bobak:
<STRONG>You saw the Manchurian Candidate too? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

You can't try him in a military tribunal because he's a US Citizen. We can only take away the right of non-citizens <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

It's as annoying as Oregon getting snubbed by the BCS (I hate the damned BCS).</STRONG>

Watching Manchurian Candidate would have porbably helped my paper on MKULTRA (no, not an obscure Mortal Kombat installment, but the CIA mind control experiments that occured at McGill University about 25 years ago).
 

John

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Originally posted by wjw123:
<STRONG>I don't get it - what does the Taliban has to do with Islam?</STRONG>

The Taliban practice a radical form of Islam that forbids many things that even most mainstream Muslims take for granted--they had a virtual ban on most modern technology, and the infrastructure was so bad that video transmissions had to go out of the country over a phone line. If you've ever streamed video over 56k, you can imagine what that must have been like.

Also, there was a mandate that all men had to wear beards. Sort of like the polar opposite of Tsar Peter the Great, who taxed and later banned beards. <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> Go figure.

And they also severely beat and oppressed women, not even allowing them to talk. Their variety of Islam is, by and large, rejected by many mainstream Muslims.
 

Sifl

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My above post (Art. 104) applies to servicemen and civilians alike, so while he might not have a tribunal, he can get a general court-martial, In which case he'd be just as fucked.
 

yuckydog

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Originally posted by Bobak:
<STRONG>You saw the Manchurian Candidate too? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

You can't try him in a military tribunal because he's a US Citizen. We can only take away the right of non-citizens <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

It's as annoying as Oregon getting snubbed by the BCS (I hate the damned BCS).</STRONG>

Isn't it still treason, punishable by death? It would be different if he revoked his citizenship to the US but this moron was playing both sides.

James
 

Taiso

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I don't think it can be classified as 'treason' because he went over there long before any of this happened. He studied in Pakistan and then hooked up with the Taliban before all of this went down. Treason, I think, only applies when you're in the middle of a war and somebody betrays you, or you directly violate a nation's security by providing information to an enemy country. This is a case of an American citizen naturalizing himself into an Afghani. Of course, he probably would never have admitted his true nationality to the Taliban...

Look at it like this. If I decide to become a communist and move to China, and then China gets into a war with the US after the fact, does that make me guilty of treason? I wasn't betraying America...I was just going away to live in a society I preferred and got caught in the middle of everything.

Again, it was this guy's choice. He shouldn't be blamed for wanting to live like a Taliban, except on the grounds that they're scumbag extremists that should all be beaten severely. I mean, I've held this view of them for some time. Long before 9/11, I didn't think much of their brand of Islam anyway. But the guy shouldn't be hated more, or less, than the rest of them. He's Taliban, after all, which means he advocates the actions of Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

Which means he should be lined up with the rest of them and shot in the face. No special treatment or attention because he's a disenfranchised American. Again...he's one of them, y'know? Let him sleep in his bed now that he's made it. His privileges of US citizenship should not apply in this case. The letter of the law should be doffed in deference to the spirit of the law as far as John Walker is concerned.

[EDIT-added thoughts about US citizenship at the end]

[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Taiso ]
 

Sifl

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I also heard on the news that this shitbag can be tried for sedition, they say it might be easier than to try for treason.

And I wanna know whether this Johnny Walker is black or red.
 

Bhm

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Three words is all I got: Hand him over to the northern alliance

And as Blaine's kickass sig says: 'Yeah. It's just like that.', 'cause it is. As a non-Afghani/Pasthun he'll probably be executed as the rest of the Chechnyans and soforth...

Btw. did anyone of you watch that 'snuff'/propaganda issued by islamistic chechnyans (featured in heavily censored form on CNN abt. a year ago) where they did some pretty horrible stuff to captured russian soldiers? I can say that I really hope somebody does the same to those fucken chechnyans... (And ppl wonder why russians commit genocide in northern parts of chechnya).
[Don't get me wrong, I'm not a supporter of genocide]

Anyway, I was actually talking to a Tadzjiki semi-friend whose father actually fought against the Talibans in '97-'98 and he said that the non Pashtun/Afghani Taliban fighters can expect a warm welcome by the Northern Alliance troops... to say the least
icon21.gif


Anyway, remember that the US is one of the reasons why the Talibans came to the power boys and gals...

The only thing the US had to do instead of court and crap was to treat his wounds, hand him over to the Northern Alliance, kick back and relax <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

// Bhm
 
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