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ShootTheCore
02-21-2018, 07:28 PM
I've been using the Super SD System 3 with my SuperGrafx system for the last couple of weeks, and I've had a few compatibility glitches that are consistent and reproducible. I've tried different rip downloads of the games and experienced the same issues. I also play with the soft reset feature disabled all the time.

I wanted to document them here, partly so NeoDev and NeoSD can be informed, and partly to see if other SuperGrafx and PCE users are experiencing these glitches as well.

The issues I've seen so far:

Rayxanber III: Game resets when fighting the second level boss.

Steam Heart's: Intro plays fine, but after starting the game, it freezes up after about 5 seconds.

neosd
02-22-2018, 03:58 PM
I've been using the Super SD System 3 with my SuperGrafx system for the last couple of weeks, and I've had a few compatibility glitches that are consistent and reproducible. I've tried different rip downloads of the games and experienced the same issues. I also play with the soft reset feature disabled all the time.

I wanted to document them here, partly so NeoDev and NeoSD can be informed, and partly to see if other SuperGrafx and PCE users are experiencing these glitches as well.

The issues I've seen so far:

Rayxanber III: Game resets when fighting the second level boss.

Steam Heart's: Intro plays fine, but after starting the game, it freezes up after about 5 seconds.

Hello,

Could you open your supergrafx and see if the pcb is corrupted ?

This is how my own supergrafx was (i noticed it cause i had issues)

http://www.neosdstore.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/super_2.jpeg
http://www.neosdstore.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/super_1.jpeg


This guy had the same exact issue as me

https://assemblergames.com/threads/problem-with-supergrafx-not-displaying-sg-generated-sprites.51828/


Worth to have a look inside there

neodev
02-22-2018, 04:29 PM
I've been using the Super SD System 3 with my SuperGrafx system for the last couple of weeks, and I've had a few compatibility glitches that are consistent and reproducible. I've tried different rip downloads of the games and experienced the same issues. I also play with the soft reset feature disabled all the time.

I wanted to document them here, partly so NeoDev and NeoSD can be informed, and partly to see if other SuperGrafx and PCE users are experiencing these glitches as well.

The issues I've seen so far:

Rayxanber III: Game resets when fighting the second level boss.

Steam Heart's: Intro plays fine, but after starting the game, it freezes up after about 5 seconds.

I just tried Steam Heart's and yes, it hangs when the game starts, when the characters starts talking. Looks like an ADPCM state emulation issue, should be quick to fix, as that game worked perfectly (in fact, we used the Steam Heart's intro to check the proper emulation of ADPCM streaming and in game for the voices streaming too)

I tried Rayxanber III, but I died a ton of times before reaching boss 1, that's going to be though to test :)

ShootTheCore
02-22-2018, 04:55 PM
Could you open your supergrafx and see if the pcb is corrupted ?


I actually recapped my SuperGrafx, did the jailbar fix, and gave the board a good cleaning when I got the NeoSD shipping notification because I wanted it to be ready. Here's pics of my board. I didn't see any trace corrosion issues. I imagine that if I had hardware issues, I'd probably be seeing a lot more problems than just those two games - I haven't had problems with any other titles across many, many hours of gameplay.

4901549016

neosd
02-22-2018, 05:13 PM
I actually recapped my SuperGrafx, did the jailbar fix, and gave the board a good cleaning when I got the NeoSD shipping notification because I wanted it to be ready. Here's pics of my board. I didn't see any trace corrosion issues. I imagine that if I had hardware issues, I'd probably be seeing a lot more problems than just those two games - I haven't had problems with any other titles across many, many hours of gameplay.

4901549016

Yes, it looks like a software issue, neosd was able to reproduce it and its working on it. I just wanted to rule out the hardware issue cause there was a gap of weird flux on my supergrafx pcb so after seeing the assemblergames post i thought this may be an issue others may have.

If you want to speed up the procedure, send us an email with your serial number to contact@neosdstore.*** we should have a firmware update soon.

Thanks

neodev
02-23-2018, 03:09 AM
I've been using the Super SD System 3 with my SuperGrafx system for the last couple of weeks, and I've had a few compatibility glitches that are consistent and reproducible. I've tried different rip downloads of the games and experienced the same issues. I also play with the soft reset feature disabled all the time.

I wanted to document them here, partly so NeoDev and NeoSD can be informed, and partly to see if other SuperGrafx and PCE users are experiencing these glitches as well.

The issues I've seen so far:

Rayxanber III: Game resets when fighting the second level boss.

Steam Heart's: Intro plays fine, but after starting the game, it freezes up after about 5 seconds.

A quick question about Steam Heart's. Are you letting the characters do their speech, or skipping it? If you are skipping, you must press RUN twice, because the first time skips the speech AND pauses the game (go figure who designed that...) and then must press it again to unpause it.
Yesterday I made a quick test and it blocked when pressing RUN to skip it, and I thought there was a bug there, but this morning I somehow pressed it twice, and it continued properly, and I remembered that quirk.

ShootTheCore
02-23-2018, 10:53 AM
I didn't even know that there was opening speech, or that it was skippable by pressing RUN twice. I hadn't played the game before. Good to know that I can skip that part to still play the game until the new firmware is ready.

neodev
02-23-2018, 11:16 AM
I didn't even know that there was opening speech, or that it was skippable by pressing RUN twice. I hadn't played the game before. Good to know that I can skip that part to still play the game until the new firmware is ready.

So, where is exactly crashing for you? when you press RUN in the main menu?

ShootTheCore
02-23-2018, 05:34 PM
So, where is exactly crashing for you? when you press RUN in the main menu?

It's hanging for me where you described before - after you start the game on the title screen menu, after you select a character, you see the space ship launch onto the screen for a second, and then the game freezes. I just checked a video of the game on YouTube, and it is indeed freezing when the character speech starts.

I can make a video of both games glitching on my hardware if that would be helpful.

Also, I've just barely sent my serial number to contact@neosdstore for the firmware notifications. Thank you for your support and for making a great product.

neosd
02-23-2018, 05:46 PM
It's hanging for me where you described before - after you start the game on the title screen menu, after you select a character, you see the space ship launch onto the screen for a second, and then the game freezes. I just checked a video of the game on YouTube, and it is indeed freezing when the character speech starts.

I can make a video of both games glitching on my hardware if that would be helpful.

Also, I've just barely sent my serial number to contact@neosdstore for the firmware notifications. Thank you for your support and for making a great product.


Hello,

Got the email.
Neodev has tried it again now (on coregrafx and pcengine) and he canīt reproduce the issue, it works fine on his setup.

I will try it tomorrow morning on my supergrafx, its 23:44 now and i have to get some rest.

We will let you know tomorrow

ShootTheCore
02-23-2018, 07:20 PM
I will try it tomorrow morning on my supergrafx, its 23:44 now and i have to get some rest.


Don't rush on my behalf. These glitches are low, low, low in terms of priority IMHO.

AlxUnderBase
02-24-2018, 04:53 AM
I'm sorry for you and for the SuperGrafx consoles (for sure the TerraOnion team will make an update and the problems will be gone) ... but i want to tell you cause the Steam Heart's: Intro plays fine/ normal , and after starting the game, the game runs flawless on my CoreGrafx II ... so , i don't know if this matters or no in the future ...also i can test these games on white PCE console , Monday.

ShootTheCore
03-04-2018, 05:25 PM
Follow up with some good news. I had a friend suggest flipping the compatibility switch on the back-right corner of the SuperGrafx to see if it resolved the issues I was having with the Super SD System 3 and Steam Hearts and Rayxanabar III. The switch disables the enhanced SuperGrafx hardware.

It turns out that flipping the switch did resolve both issues - I was able to play four stages into both Steam Heart's and Rayxanabar without any freezeups or reset issues.

So it may not be a SD System issue - these two titles may have compatibility issues on original hardware. Unfortunately, I can't test it to find out since I don't own a CD-ROM drive setup for my SuperGrafx. But until we know for sure, flipping the compatibility switch is a great workaround.

Syn
03-04-2018, 06:00 PM
Good to hear as I'm going to be using a SuperGrafx myself.

neodev
03-05-2018, 01:44 PM
Follow up with some good news. I had a friend suggest flipping the compatibility switch on the back-right corner of the SuperGrafx to see if it resolved the issues I was having with the Super SD System 3 and Steam Hearts and Rayxanabar III. The switch disables the enhanced SuperGrafx hardware.

It turns out that flipping the switch did resolve both issues - I was able to play four stages into both Steam Heart's and Rayxanabar without any freezeups or reset issues.

So it may not be a SD System issue - these two titles may have compatibility issues on original hardware. Unfortunately, I can't test it to find out since I don't own a CD-ROM drive setup for my SuperGrafx. But until we know for sure, flipping the compatibility switch is a great workaround.

That's interesting. I completely forgot about the compatibility switch in the sgx. Glad to know it worked. That means that probably they sill also fail with an original super cdrom system in a sgx, that's something I'll need to try.

RevQuixo
03-05-2018, 01:54 PM
That's interesting. I completely forgot about the compatibility switch in the sgx. Glad to know it worked. That means that probably they sill also fail with an original super cdrom system in a sgx, that's something I'll need to try.

So the real question then is it possible to "fix" the compatibility issue within the SSDS3. Extremely low priority (not really a bug at all), but it'd be cool if it was possible.

neosd
03-05-2018, 02:28 PM
So the real question then is it possible to "fix" the compatibility issue within the SSDS3. Extremely low priority (not really a bug at all), but it'd be cool if it was possible.

If nec put the swich to change from coregrafx to supergrafex compatibility, it was for a reason for sure.

From a design point, putting this swich is totally wrong as it adds an extra cost and it gives troubleshooting to the customers, so i think they had to put it due design limitations.

RevQuixo
03-05-2018, 07:46 PM
If nec put the swich to change from coregrafx to supergrafex compatibility, it was for a reason for sure.

From a design point, putting this swich is totally wrong as it adds an extra cost and it gives troubleshooting to the customers, so i think they had to put it due design limitations.

Agreed. Very little info online about what games fail in Supergrafx mode. The only two I see reference to are Space Harrier and Double Dungeons - W

bubba966
03-05-2018, 11:28 PM
If I can get enough rest to find the time I'll try runnin Rayxanber III on my SGFX as I know I have a copy of that game. I don't think I have Steam Hearts though. Both my SGFX & Super CDROM2 were NOS units and they're still low hours after I started using em.

Yodd
03-06-2018, 10:31 AM
Agreed. Very little info online about what games fail in Supergrafx mode. The only two I see reference to are Space Harrier and Double Dungeons - W

When I had my Supergrafx I remember having problems with Night Creatures (TG16) working on it. And I don't think it played with the switch in either position.

ShootTheCore
03-06-2018, 11:14 AM
When I had my Supergrafx I remember having problems with Night Creatures (TG16) working on it. And I don't think it played with the switch in either position.

I just tried Night Creatures on my SG and it works fine with the compatibily switch set to PCE, but doesn't display a picture (but plays music) with the switch set to SG.

Yodd, were you running an original card before? Because US TG-16 cards won't run on a SG or PCE without region conversion.

Yodd
03-06-2018, 11:24 AM
I just tried Night Creatures on my SG and it works fine with the compatibily switch set to PCE, but doesn't display a picture (but plays music) with the switch set to SG.

Yodd, were you running an original card before? Because US TG-16 cards won't run on a SG or PCE without region conversion.

I forgot to mention that. It was via a Turbo Everdrive. Perhaps it was that it didn't work in Supergrafx mode.

neodev
03-06-2018, 11:54 AM
So the real question then is it possible to "fix" the compatibility issue within the SSDS3. Extremely low priority (not really a bug at all), but it'd be cool if it was possible.

I think the main reason the games fail is because of the different memory map in the video part. the PCE has the VDC registers aliased in a quite large chunk of the memory map (0x400 bytes IIRC), but the SGX shares this area with the other VDC and the mixer, and mapped to the low part of the area, so probably, the games that fail, use "high" VDC register addresses, that in SGX map either to another VDC, or to nothing at all, and they either hang while inspecting the interrupt bits, or don't show anything because they are writting to somewhere unused, or erroneusly programming the mixer.
If that's the case, fixing those games would require patching their code so they use the proper addresses.

EDIT: Just for fun, I tried Steam Heart's in MAME and when running in sgx emulation, it hangs exactly as ShootTheCore said in the first post, but works (sort of, mame cd emulation doesn't seem complete and voices are not right) on pce emulation.

EDIT2: I found why SH hangs on supergrafx, it's a coding error, and yes, it's caused by the lack of aliasing of video registers in sgx.

at 43E7 there is the following instruction: AND $0008 it's supposed to AND the value returned from the ADPCM state with the value 8, and it seems at first glance, but that instruction is wrong, the proper one is AND #$0008, that is AND with the constant 8, the original one is AND with value at address 8, that is mapped to the video region, in a PCE it reads from VDC register 0, I can't remember what it is, but it probably has bit 8 set, so it works fine, but in SGX, it reads from the mixer chip, and it's not 8, and the test never passes.

box1694
04-08-2018, 03:09 PM
Kuusou_Kagaku_Sekai_-_Gulliver_Boy_(NTSC-J)_[HCD5076] can`t run
Tengai Makyo - Ziria [Hibaihin] (J) image broken
Mugen_Senshi_Valis_-_Legend_of_a_Fantasm_Soldier video and audio can`t Synchronize

sorry ! My English is very bad

Syn
04-08-2018, 06:05 PM
Mugen_Senshi_Valis_-_Legend_of_a_Fantasm_Soldier video and audio can`t Synchronize


This works properly for me, no sync issues with my SuperGrafx.

The others I don't have.

SavagePencil
04-09-2018, 10:00 AM
This works properly for me, no sync issues with my SuperGrafx.

The others I don't have.

I have slight drift in lip synch in one of the longer intro bits (I believe where Char is talking to Yuko). I think it was to compensate for seek times.

fernan1234
04-12-2018, 12:58 PM
I have slight drift in lip synch in one of the longer intro bits (I believe where Char is talking to Yuko). I think it was to compensate for seek times.

I've had this exact problem when playing this game on an IFU/briefcase setup, albeit using a burned disc. I also encountered the same problem when testing the CD image on madnafen emulator.

I'm hoping to get my hands on an authentic disc to see if the problem is that image dumps burnt to CD-R or emulated just can't quite get the right seek times for that scene in Valis 1. I've seen clips of that scene where the sync is perfect.

GohanX
04-12-2018, 05:24 PM
I've ripped that from a real disc but I haven't tried it yet. Can you tell me specifically where the sync error occurs so I can try to reproduce it?

fernan1234
04-12-2018, 08:40 PM
In my experience it's during the second half of the long intro cutscene. After the game title appears and it starts raining at the school, that's when the sync issue takes place. It becomes pretty obvious when it stops raining and Yuka starts talking with Reiko.

This is what it's supposed to be like when in sync: https://youtu.be/FJIerWR5FXw?t=2m54s

GohanX
04-12-2018, 08:58 PM
I had the same issue. It was synced, then as soon as the thunderstorm hit it was way off. I haven't tried it on a real CD ROM yet.