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View Full Version : The OFFICIAL... Neosd MicroSD Card thread...



Rot
02-15-2017, 03:40 AM
OK OK... Seeing as more and more of our memberbase are getting the Neosd...

Let's summarise the MicroSD situation...

For this thread... I'd appreciate you posting the following info:

1. Size and Type of MicroSD used. (Pics would be nice...)
2. Firmware on the Neosd.
3. Load Times for (From the MicroSD Erasing to the Loading of the game... please..):
a. KoF 03
b. Magician Lord

xROTx

greatfunky
02-15-2017, 06:09 AM
Good idea Rot !

I start the show :

Transcend ultimate 600x 16GB

42679

NeoSD MVS firmware update 1.05

Load Times:

- KOF03 : 2.50
- Magician Lord: 0.22

Rot
02-15-2017, 06:11 AM
Thank You GreatSpunky...

Sorry, I forgot to mention... the load times should be from the erasing of the microSD to load of new game...

I will edit the FIRST post..

xROTx

greatfunky
02-15-2017, 06:15 AM
lol! yes I have considered the erasing time in my measuring time ;)

Rot
02-15-2017, 06:18 AM
lol! yes I have considered the erasing time in my measuring time ;)

Thanks... I was busy when I typed it..

I have a lot of other things to do around here and at real work:D

xROTx

GadgetUK
02-15-2017, 07:32 AM
42680

NeoSD MVS firmware update 1.05

Load Times: (Interesting how my KOF03 took longer than greatfunky, but Magicial Lord took less :conf:

- KOF03 : 2.54
- Magician Lord: 0.19

donluca
02-15-2017, 10:15 AM
As many things may get in between erasing and game load times, I strongly suggest to run the erase-write cycle 3-4 times and calculate the average to have a more significant figure to compare, if time/will allows.

I'm pretty sure you'll get slightly different results each time, hence why Gadget's Magician Lord time is shorter than funky's and viceversa for KoF03

RAZO
02-15-2017, 10:20 AM
As long as it is the same ball park we get the point. Now if someone's MagLord was taking 40s and Kof 3.20 than you may want to avoid getting that particular SD card.

CZroe
02-15-2017, 02:56 PM
Wouldn't erase times potentially vary by the size of the game that was loaded previously? Might be best to throw that one out.

aha2940
02-16-2017, 08:32 AM
Wouldn't erase times potentially vary by the size of the game that was loaded previously? Might be best to throw that one out.

Maybe the whole memory gets erased every time regardless of the game it was written before?

CZroe
02-16-2017, 08:45 PM
Maybe the whole memory gets erased every time regardless of the game it was written before?
I recall some flash carts that used to do it that way but it would be punishing for this one to operate that way. With the significant speed boost that came from FW updates, I'm guessing that they are working on making it even faster and wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like that. I would speculate that the boost came from eliminating unnecessary erasure except that I've seen enough flashing times of large and small ROM sets to know better. :)

neodev
02-17-2017, 05:21 AM
I recall some flash carts that used to do it that way but it would be punishing for this one to operate that way. With the significant speed boost that came from FW updates, I'm guessing that they are working on making it even faster and wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like that. I would speculate that the boost came from eliminating unnecessary erasure except that I've seen enough flashing times of large and small ROM sets to know better. :)

NeoSD will always erase the minimum amount of flash data needed to flash the game, but it's unclear if the erase times are different depending on the game that was previously flashed, as it's up to the flash chip firmware to check if a erase block is already all clear and skip it. I know the flash chip detects when we try to write a buffer that is all FFs and skips it entirely.

The previous firmware update improved flashing time by doing more operations in parallel, for example, erasing a flash while writting another one (that was in the original firmware too), or using the idle times waiting for a write to complete to write to another flash chip.

CZroe
02-17-2017, 09:21 AM
Very cool. I think the wait times were already very tolerable in the first place even though I was spoiled with RAM-based backup carts back in the SNES/N64 days. They were still bottlenecked by ATAPI or ECP/EPP transfers but they were fast enough and somewhat comparable to this (depending on your setup). I'll admit that when I found a brand new Stone Age Gamer Super Everdrive for $1.43 at a fleamarket I was kind of annoyed (despite the killer deal), but only because it was slower than some decades-old solutions for the same console... so I traded it for an Ultra Everdrive 64 and bought an SD2SNES for the extra functions (MSU-1!). I think everyone expects larger games to take a little while longer, and pretty much everything on the Neo is comparatively huge, so my feeling is that it's worth the wait.

All that said, is there any reason why it isn't RAM-based? Is it hard to get that kind of capacity with the correct memory type or something? I'd expect copying a dump from flash storage into RAM and setting it up to be accessed like ROM would go a lot faster, but probably a lot harder to engineer (powerful FPGA that can address the RAM and simulate ROM access timings by acting as a memory controller). Obviously, I am not an engineer. :)

neodev
02-17-2017, 01:01 PM
Well, the decision between RAM or Flash based was a though one, each one has its advantages and drawbacks but we finally went the Flash way because of its instant-on feature, as populating all the RAM chips on startup would take a bit, given the size of the neogeo rom data.

Say you want to load kof2003, that is around 90MBytes. The STM SD interface runs at a maximum of 25MHz, when running in 4-bit mode, you can transfer a byte in 2 cycles, so that's 12MB/s so you have an absolute minimum time of 7 seconds waiting every time the board boots, boot it 10 times, and you have spent over a minute waiting the game to load. That's a theoretical value, not taking into account the sending of commands to the SD (it uses a 1 wire protocol) and the filesystem overhead (you can only read a cluster, then check the next cluster in the FAT, and send the command to read another cluster), and the overhead of reading the data from memory and transferring to the actual RAM chips (setting the address, data, moving WE, ...) so I'd say it could easily be 15s to transfer an entire game every boot. Another issue is that the neogeo bios needs to see a valid neogeo header in the program area, so you must either first write a small loader that shows a loading screen, or keep the neogeo in reset while it's being transferred (at least the 1st MB of the P rom but then you'll have garbled graphics while they update). So we went to the flash solution, that has a slower write time, but it behaves exactly like a cart, with instant on time, having all the data ready since bootup (seeing an stock bios AES boot the game instantaneosuly is gorgeous). There are other issues but those are just some of them. From what I can see in the images of the "other" cartridge, he's also using flash chips for some parts (P, S and M roms probably, and RAM for C and V)

About the access protocol to the RAM, you can choose either DRAM (with its complicated protocol, that would need to be handled by the FPGA) or SRAM (actually PSRAM: DRAM chips with a SRAM like interface). PSRAM would be the way we would have chosen in that case, as it's more easily addressed from the FPGA and MCU, although they are usually more expensive.

Also, there are Flash chips that use a technology that gives almost instant erase time, but they aren't manufactured in all the sizes we needed.

fille1976
02-17-2017, 04:11 PM
its not a bad choice neodev,you may be proud what the team have accomplished.
you have a working flashcart,with a nice menu,all games working fine.
its the right decision to go flash based for neo geo.
only thing i hope ever coming is maybe possibility for saving to sdcard.
if there's coming more it will make it even better as it is now.
so keep up the good work and success with your other product your creating.

Rot
02-17-2017, 04:22 PM
Can we have more times and stuff please... kthx mofos...

DO IT NOW!!!!!

xROTx

kaironman
02-21-2017, 03:06 PM
I've received my NeoSD today. This is my setup:

- MV1-FS board - UNIBIOS 2.3
- ArcadeForge.net MAK Strike Supergun
- Phillips PAL CRT TV - RGB Scart input
- Min Dong Arcade PSU, with voltage selection knob, regulated to 5.00V
- Neo Geo Stick
- MVS Neo SD, 1.05 firmware
- 16GB SanDisk SDHC MicroSD card (Class A)

First of all, I loaded Super Sidekicks 2.

Next, I loaded Magician Lord: 22 seconds

Then, I loaded KOF2003: 2 minutes 49 seconds.

This cart is awesome. :buttrock:

42929

42930

42931

42932

Rot
02-21-2017, 03:17 PM
Thank You kaironman... I am currently trying to find a way of checking firmware versions...

Due to the fact that i don't own one...

Where's those pesky neosd team when i want them.... or Raz...

xROTx

PS. more tests to come... so so exciting:D

neodev
02-21-2017, 03:25 PM
I've received my NeoSD today. This is my setup:

- MV1-FS board - UNIBIOS 2.3
- ArcadeForge.net MAK Strike Supergun
- Phillips PAL CRT TV - RGB Scart input
- Min Dong Arcade PSU, with voltage selection knob, regulated to 5.00V
- Neo Geo Stick
- MVS Neo SD, 1.05 firmware
- 16GB SanDisk SDHC MicroSD card (Class A)

First of all, I loaded Super Sidekicks 2.

Next, I loaded Magician Lord: 22 seconds

Then, I loaded KOF2003: 2 minutes 49 seconds.

This cart is awesome. :buttrock:

42929

42930

42931

42932

You can check the version by pressing B (options) then choose the VERSION option.

The original firmware (first batch) was 1.04. This new batch is sent with the latest one (1.05) that contains the faster flashing code.

For the record:

kof2003 flashing time is 2:55
maglord flashing time is 0:25

with a Samsung Evo 32GB, class 10, UHS - I
on firmware 1.05

kaironman
02-21-2017, 03:32 PM
You can check the version by pressing B (options) then choose the VERSION option.

The original firmware (first batch) was 1.04. This new batch is sent with the latest one (1.05) that contains the faster flashing code.

Thank you, edited my post accordingly.

Rot
02-21-2017, 03:34 PM
Thanks guys... MORE to come...

I LOVE stats.... i am Azn you know:D

xROTx

pixeljunkie
02-22-2017, 03:17 PM
My cart arrived today - gonna hopefully load up and time my setup tonight on an AES

Rot
02-22-2017, 03:21 PM
My cart arrived today - gonna hopefully load up and time my setup tonight on an AES

The FIRST of the AES releases.... I have been waiting for this...

Make my day Pixel_Sexxor!

xROTx

pixeljunkie
02-22-2017, 07:17 PM
The FIRST of the AES releases.... I have been waiting for this...

Make my day Pixel_Sexxor!

xROTx

OK, not sure if I need to update FW since this cart is hot off the presses. So, I just loaded it up and hit the ground running.

Using this MicroSD: Samsung 16GB PRO Class 10 Micro SDHC Card with Adapter up to 90MB/s (MB-MG16EA/AM)

I hit the stop watch at the same time I hit "load" then stopped as soon as the screen went black to load game

Magician Lord: 0:23:11

KOF2k3: 3:23:68

Metal Fatigue
02-22-2017, 07:28 PM
On a scale of 1-10 what was the boner level once game fired up?

Kloggmonkey
02-22-2017, 07:30 PM
NeoSD AES cart just came in. Works like a charm.
Using a 3-5 board revision AES with a third party power adapter with 9VDC and 1.2A

Running with a Kingston 32GB Class 10 card.
http://i.imgur.com/oBU9AeX.jpg

1.05 NeoSD Firmware

Maglord: 0:22
KOF2k3: 3:03

pixeljunkie
02-23-2017, 10:39 AM
On a scale of 1-10 what was the boner level once game fired up?

Honestly, pretty much a 10 - realizing I have the entire Neo library in one cart - headsplode

Lone-Wolf
02-23-2017, 03:12 PM
My AES version arrived today!

Using Sandisk Extreme Plus micro SDHC UHS-1 class 10 up to 95mb/s 16gb

Firmware 1.05

KoF2003 - 2:58
Mag Lord - 0:22

yoshi41
02-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Tested NeoSD MVS + AES with some UHS-1 and UHS-3 cards.

UHS-1 seems faster than UHS-3. The cheapest is the fastest. ;)

I'm wondering why the NeoSD AES cart is slower than the MVS version. :scratch:

Crossed check on AES with stock BIOS. Same result.


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23

Toshiba Exceria Pro microSDHC UHS-3 (16GB, Class 10) THN-M401S016

KOF 2003 - 3:23
Magician Lord - 0:25

Sandisk ExtremePro microSDHC UHS-3 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQXXG-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:25
Magician Lord - 0:25


AES Stock BIOS + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23


Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:49
Magician Lord - 0:20

Toshiba Exceria Pro microSDHC UHS-3 (16GB, Class 10) THN-M401S016

KOF 2003 - 2:53
Magician Lord - 0:21

Sandisk ExtremePro microSDHC UHS-3 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQXXG-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:55
Magician Lord - 0:21

PS: Can't attach images. My account is still (partly) locked.

neodev
02-23-2017, 03:39 PM
Tested NeoSD MVS + AES with some UHS-1 and UHS-3 cards.

UHS-1 seems faster than UHS-3. The cheapest is the fastest. ;)

I'm wondering why the NeoSD AES cart is slower than the MVS version. :scratch:

Crossed check on AES with stock BIOS. Same result.


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23

Toshiba Exceria Pro microSDHC UHS-3 (16GB, Class 10) THN-M401S016

KOF 2003 - 3:23
Magician Lord - 0:25

Sandisk ExtremePro microSDHC UHS-3 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQXXG-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:25
Magician Lord - 0:25


AES Stock BIOS + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23


Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:49
Magician Lord - 0:20

Toshiba Exceria Pro microSDHC UHS-3 (16GB, Class 10) THN-M401S016

KOF 2003 - 2:53
Magician Lord - 0:21

Sandisk ExtremePro microSDHC UHS-3 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQXXG-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:55
Magician Lord - 0:21

PS: Can't attach images. My account is still (partly) locked.

Yes, AES is a bit slower flashing, that's normal. It happens because on MVS, in order to write the flashes, the MCU has direct access to the data bus and can stream data directly to the C flashes, but on AES, it goes through the sprite serializer chip and it introduces a small delay as there is a small protocol there to select which rom each value goes to.

yoshi41
02-23-2017, 03:43 PM
Yes, AES is a bit slower flashing, that's normal. It happens because on MVS, in order to write the flashes, the MCU has direct access to the data bus and can stream data directly to the C flashes, but on AES, it goes through the sprite serializer chip and it introduces a small delay as there is a small protocol there to select which rom each value goes to.

Thanks for the explanation.

GohanX
02-23-2017, 03:50 PM
On a scale of 1-10 what was the boner level once game fired up?



This boner goes to 11.

Rot
02-23-2017, 03:52 PM
This boner goes to 11.

Well... for you a flacid 11 is worth my awesome 2"...

xROTx

greatfunky
02-23-2017, 05:24 PM
A new test with my neosd AES arrived today and a different sd card

Sandisk Exteme plus 633x 16GB
According to many users here , it's one of the fastest sd card
42992

NeoSD AES firmware 1.05

Load Times:

- KOF03 : 2.50
- Magician Lord: 0.22

Same result as my Transcend ultimate 600x with neosd MVS

Something interesting now :

neodev explained neosd AES is slower than MVS version
but neosd AES seems more sensible to sd cards speeds ,with 30 sec difference, between 2.50 and 3.20 depending of the brand/speed , with mvs version most of users are around 2.50 /2.55 on KOF03...:spock:
I tested that sandisk on my neo sd MVS and get 2.51 , nothing better than the Transcend.

So with a good sd card you should go as faster as the MVS version ...

(to complete the test i should test the Transcend on the AES ...but tomorow , now i'm tired:-J )

neosd
02-23-2017, 05:30 PM
A new test with my neosd AES arrived today and a different sd card

Sandisk Exteme plus 633x 16GB
According to many users here , it's one of the fastest sd card
42992

NeoSD AES firmware 1.05

Load Times:

- KOF03 : 2.50
- Magician Lord: 0.22

Same result as my Transcend ultimate 600x with neosd MVS

Something interesting now :

neodev explained neosd AES is slower than MVS version
but neosd AES seems more sensible to sd cards speeds ,with 30 sec difference, between 2.50 and 3.20 depending of the brand/speed , with mvs version most of users are around 2.50 /2.55 on KOF03...:spock:
I tested that sandisk on my neo sd MVS and get 2.51 , nothing better than the Transcend.

So with a good sd card you should go as faster as the MVS version ...

(to complete the test i should test the Transcend on the AES ...but tomorow , now i'm tired:-J )

Did you get the free shell ? ;)

greatfunky
02-23-2017, 05:31 PM
YES sure ! Perfect service , i'm so happy ! THANKS

mastamuzz
02-23-2017, 10:23 PM
My turn for times

Card Sandisk ultra 16GB

AES 3-6
King of fighters 2003 = 2:55.88
Magician Lord = 21.69
Samurai Showdown 5 SP = 2:50.77

AES 3-3
King of fighters 2003 = 2:53.46
Magician Lord = 22.62
Samurai Showdown 5 SP = 2:48.33

both systems tested with the same card and of course the same cartridge.

difference is the model and PSU as stated on the reveal thread both original PS units.

Ill test tomorrow with a vanilla sandisk and a lexar high speed

P.S. Rot I can't delete the attached images sorry they are so big

xsq
02-24-2017, 02:28 AM
P.S. Rot I can't delete the attached images sorry they are so big
No need to PM Rot: click on "Settings" on top of the page (it's on the right next to "Log Out"), then scroll down and all the way down on the left side under "Miscellaneous" click "Attachments" ;)

Razoola
02-24-2017, 03:00 AM
This is intresting, it appears there are others experiancing the same delays I am seeing with the MVS NeoSD cart (pre version) I mentioned in the main thread reported on the AES cart here in this thread (maybe one MVS cart also).

I'm talking about the 20% slower times with kof2003 (under 3:00 compared to above 3:20). neodev mentions the AES should be a little slower so that could point to something but on the other hand others with AES carts have now reported under 3:00 times also, about equal to the MVS (20% faster). Yoshi41 has tested the same cards on a MVS and AES neoSD so the cards can be ruled out there, why is his AES NeoSD slower than other AES NeoSD?

Something strange is happening here, hopefully that can be fixed in firmware.

Sceptre_JLRB
02-24-2017, 06:01 AM
Now's time for my times, a classic in the origin of this frenzy speed craze. :buttrock:


* System: Consolized Neo-Geo MVS MV-1F

* NeoSD-MVS firmware version: MCU 1.05 R05; 68K 1.03; Prog 1D2F; Cha BDC4

* μSD card: Toshiba Exceria M302EA, microSDHC 32 GB, UHS-I bus, Class10 U3, 90 MB/s read speed

43008

* Loading times:

- KOF2003 (over itself): 02:59.07
- Magician Lord (over itself): 00:22.07

Rot
02-24-2017, 06:07 AM
Someone needs to buy a cheapass nasty 16gb SD card from China and see how it goes...

Thanks for the contributions so far guys...

xROTx

mastamuzz
02-24-2017, 08:48 AM
Someone needs to buy a cheapass nasty 16gb SD card from China and see how it goes...

Thanks for the contributions so far guys...

xROTx

I'll do that when I get back from work!

Edit: thanks xsq I got them down!

yoshi41
02-24-2017, 10:44 AM
This is intresting, it appears there are others experiancing the same delays I am seeing with the MVS NeoSD cart (pre version) I mentioned in the main thread reported on the AES cart here in this thread (maybe one MVS cart also).

I'm talking about the 20% slower times with kof2003 (under 3:00 compared to above 3:20). neodev mentions the AES should be a little slower so that could point to something but on the other hand others with AES carts have now reported under 3:00 times also, about equal to the MVS (20% faster). Yoshi41 has tested the same cards on a MVS and AES neoSD so the cards can be ruled out there, why is his AES NeoSD slower than other AES NeoSD?

Something strange is happening here, hopefully that can be fixed in firmware.

Your post motivated me for another test (AES with NeoSD MVS).

And guess what, it's not the console. It's the cart (most likely the firmware) which makes the big difference. :spock:


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23


Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:49
Magician Lord - 0:20


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + Daedalus Converter + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:50
Magician Lord - 0:21

Razoola
02-24-2017, 10:58 AM
Your post motivated me for another test (AES with NeoSD MVS).

And guess what, it's not the console. It's the cart (most likely the firmware) which makes the big difference. :spock:


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23


Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:49
Magician Lord - 0:20


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + Daedalus Converter + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:50
Magician Lord - 0:21

Yes I know, you have an identical issue as I have with the pre MVS cart and I think another user has the same situation who posted. neodev is sure its related to the flashchip erase times on some chips but I personally think its premature to put the blame there until its confirmed via direct testing. I really hope this can be fixed with a firmware update because the time differences are quite great.

There is something you could also test though with the AES NeoSD you have. If you flash maglord and watch the progress bar, do you see two erase cycles? One right at the start and another that lasts a moment around 50% through the flashing process?

greatfunky
02-24-2017, 11:22 AM
I just tested my transcend card from my neo sd MVS on my neosd AES and i get again 2.50 on KOF03 , so two different sd cards (sandisk and transcend ) on both neosd version give me the same result .

The only thing i could say is what neodev was explaining about speed difference between MVS and AES version is certainly true but in fact , probably not really visually noticeable (on two perfectly working neosd carts).

So yes , the speed issue should be somewhere else , concerning independently MVS or AES neosd carts...

yoshi41
02-24-2017, 11:31 AM
There is something you could also test though with the AES NeoSD you have. If you flash maglord and watch the progress bar, do you see two erase cycles? One right at the start and another that lasts a moment around 50% through the flashing process?

Tried a couple of times. Don't have that extra erase cycle with my AES cart.

yoshi41
02-24-2017, 02:06 PM
Did some more testing after I saw the longer loading time could be related to low serials.

KOF 2003 also needs 3:20 to load on my 60K serial AES models.

mastamuzz
02-25-2017, 01:36 AM
updated times on other cards! includes china clone and old 1 Gig!

lexar633x
0:22.12
2:54.78

china clone 4gig class 4
0:22.15
2:53.82

lexar300x 16gig
0:22.02
2:56.66

blackweb 16gig class 10
0:22.39
2:56.81

vanilla sandisk 1gig
0:22.22
2:56.90

yes the china clone had better time on kof2003

Rot
02-25-2017, 02:37 AM
OK... cheapass is best... got it...

NEW Motto:p

xROTx

lachlan
02-25-2017, 08:17 AM
OK... cheapass is best... got it...

NEW Motto:p

xROTx

Suits me just fine! I am a cheap arse after all!

hardyhell
02-28-2017, 04:30 PM
hey guys.

so there is no sd card winner and it depends on the multi cart itself?

thanks

mastamuzz
02-28-2017, 11:44 PM
apparently no in my case but you are free to try different cards what may be good for me may not be good for you, I followed some e-myths about SD cards the zeroed format then fill your card with 4 gig files and erase then format U and then format fat32 you may want to try out with a card straight from the box and then do the myths and see if anything changes for you.

Razoola
03-01-2017, 01:36 AM
hey guys.

so there is no sd card winner and it depends on the multi cart itself?

thanks

Yes, this is correct in some cases. At the moment not enough is known but some users of the NeoSD (MVS and AES) are 20% slower than others (loading kof2003) and it has been confirmed it is not releated to the MVS or AES hardware or the brand of SD card used. If your kof2003 loads in around 3:20 or slower very likly your neosd is one of those affected if your sure yout using a fast sdcard.

lachlan
03-01-2017, 07:17 AM
While Im not helping I have to say 2-3mins is a lot faster than

1. The money I would earn to pay for said game and
2. Faster than shipping anywhere in the world.

If its under 4 mins then its a good deal.

**Fixed by Rot... Cuz Lachlan types like convict...**

mastamuzz
03-01-2017, 08:48 AM
Soap fell from the keyboard?

And back to square one if 4 minutes bothers someone then go back to teh emus, or multi carts cause you are still discovering the NEO library.

Gyrian
03-01-2017, 10:23 PM
Here are my cheapo micro SD times, for what it's worth.

NeoSD AES 1.05
Dane 8gb HC class 4 micro SD card

http://imgur.com/2T5intU.png

3:22 KOF2003 flashing time | 0:37 erase | 2:45 flash
0:24 Magician Lord flashing time | 0:03 erase | 0:21 flash

I get a fair amount of variability in erase times. Flashing times are consistent, I timed both games @ 2:45 & 0:21 multiple times each.

Razoola
03-02-2017, 03:56 AM
3:22 KOF2003 flashing time | 0:37 erase | 2:45 flash
0:24 Magician Lord flashing time | 0:03 erase | 0:21 flash

I get a fair amount of variability in erase times. Flashing times are consistent, I timed both games @ 2:45 & 0:21 multiple times each.

This 0:37 erase time does not make sence. From what I have been told during testing this issue, the expected erase time should be about 0:50 in ideal conditions, and that should still allow the entire flash process to complete well under 3:00. Someone is either telling porkies or something else is happening on top as well.

These tests are going to have to be done again to get any meaning full information now if your sure your times are correct Gyrian. Not with maglord though, just with kof2003, flashing the game twice and only taking info from the 2nd flash. Giving the initial erase time, following flash time and final total time (both added together).

For me it is as follows.

0:52 + 2.24, total 3:25

Given the times neosd told me he gets and what neodev told me about the expected initial erase time for kof2003, it would mean neosds total time of 2:42 would be made up of 0:50 + 1:52 = 2:42. It would be intresting to see if this initial 0:50 erase time is actually accurate or can be used to determine if you have a NeoSD affected by this problem.

Razoola
03-02-2017, 05:34 AM
Just spoken to neodev again about this and it appears what I was told before is not totally accurate. A 0:52 erase cycle during the flashing process is not normal and slower than the expected norm. Bear in mind this erase cycle is not reliant on the sdcard either. The expected erase time in an ideal situation should be 37 seconds but given that is rare, a couple of seconds slower is also very acceptable. Will be intresting to see if others affected by slow flashing times also have this much slower than expected initial erase time.

Gyrian
03-02-2017, 06:14 AM
Appreciate your reply, Raz.

I should've dug deeper on erase time once I made the distinction. My flash time measured consistently, and I was about ready to post once I realized that Rot had requested total time. My total for KOF2003 surprised me a bit, and my impression of erase times was one of variability based upon trying out a number of games.

I've verified that I was mistaken about this, having tested again for KOF2003 erase time specifically. Five tests got me between 35s to 38s. Clearly there is a technical reason here, but it would sure make for a tangible difference if NeoSD could start by overwriting instead.

neodev
03-02-2017, 06:23 AM
Appreciate your reply, Raz.

I should've dug deeper on erase time once I made the distinction. My flash time measured consistently, and I was about ready to post once I realized that Rot had requested total time. My total for KOF2003 surprised me a bit, and my impression of erase times was one of variability based upon trying out a number of games.

I've verified that I was mistaken about this, having tested again for KOF2003 erase time specifically. Five tests got me between 35s to 38s. Clearly there is a technical reason here, but it would sure make for a tangible difference if NeoSD could start by overwriting instead.

Keep in mind that erase time depends on the game size, as the firmware will only erase the required space for the game, so small games have quicker erase time than larger games.

Also, erasing is a mandatory step for flashroms, the data can't just be overwritten, writting to a flashrom can only convert bits from 1 to 0, but in order to convert a bit back to 1, you must erase it, and erasing can only be performed at erase block sizes (128KB for the large flashes in NeoSD).

Also, erasing is an operation that it self timed inside the flashroms, so firmware doesn't have actually any control on the time it takes,It just says "erase sectors from x to y" and then waits for the flash to report it has finished. Just external factors like temperature, voltage stability, component tolerance... affect that time.

Rot
03-02-2017, 06:31 AM
Hehe... Funny...

My opinion on load times and this thread... is that it's sorta cool to have fast load times... BUT... the main priority of this device is to play games accurately and it sure as hell does that..

SO... unless you're changing out games every 15 minutes... this to me is a non-issue...

SURE, there are some of you who feel they must compare it the the 161-1 carts or the other MD, Snes etc Flashcarts... but all in all... that's dumb..

xROTx

PS. The Neosd has been developed with foresight and the homebrew market is serviced well with this device... don't forget that mofo's...

Razoola
03-02-2017, 07:29 AM
Your right ROT, this does not affect the product once the game is flashed. It does however have an effect given some NeoSDs are faster than others and while that is acceptabled if the cause is external it still comes down to wether this is a fault with flash chips on some NeoSDs or something else that can be fixed in firmware. This is quite important given much has been said about flashspeed in the past and no doubt will be said again in the future given there could be a competing product in the future.

The way I see it is like this, a big deal about the 30% speed increase in the new firmware and we were all happy. In turn then, a 20% speed defisit in some NeoSD carts cannot be dismissed if the blame can be placed on the neoSD itsself and not external factors.

Depending on the what the fault is then, does this mean neosd will replace NeoSD cards with this issue for those that want a repleacment?

neodev
03-02-2017, 08:09 AM
Your right ROT, this does not affect the product once the game is flashed. It does however have an effect given some NeoSDs are faster than others and while that is acceptabled if the cause is external it still comes down to wether this is a fault with flash chips on some NeoSDs or something else that can be fixed in firmware. This is quite important given much has been said about flashspeed in the past and no doubt will be said again in the future given there could be a competing product in the future.

The way I see it is like this, a big deal about the 30% speed increase in the new firmware and we were all happy. In turn then, a 20% speed defisit in some NeoSD carts cannot be dismissed if the blame can be placed on the neoSD itsself and not external factors.

Depending on the what the fault is then, does this mean neosd will replace NeoSD cards with this issue for those that want a repleacment?

Well, I don't see it as a fault in the cart. All electronic devices have tolerances, not all devices are manufactured exactly the same. The flash and erase times given by the manufacturer are mean times, so there are faster and slower flashes, the same way there are speed differences in a SD card when you use it on a PC, even using two cards of the same model, that's normal. I can show you some data, taken from manufacturer manual:

S29GL128P (page 62): Chip erase time: typical 64s. Maximum: 256s . The first erase cycle, that would erase the P rom data, that is 1MB + 8MB is then: 64s for 16MB -> 36s for 9MB, that means, 36s is the typical value, but according to a table, it could go up to 144s, and still it's in spec, so, that's not an issue, that's normal. What the manufacturer doesn't state is how temperature or voltage affects to these values, keep in mind that we are using 3.3V (right in the middle of the spec 3.0V to 3.6V), so, does it increase the flashing time? maybe, it's not explained, maybe in some flash chips it does, maybe in other it doesn't. Who is seeing 37s in flash erase time, are in the "typical" range, and 50s? yes, it's still in range, it's not the typical, but it's well below the maximum.
You can refer to that manual, it's public, just search for S29GL128P in the Cypress page.

massimiliano
03-02-2017, 08:26 AM
Just curious, would that be possible to get a tool testing these parameters automatically generating a report?

Rot
03-02-2017, 08:34 AM
Hehe...

You see Raz... I view this perceived issue as how i view the forum... there's range of opinions and posts i will accept and then there's crossing the line...

The device works... tolerance 20%... that's fine...

Not every pcb will have the exact same width of soldering... not ever pcb will have exctly the same pin length...

As long as the device works and the customers are happy... why worry....

It's like I said how I view the forum... there's a few things that you may not be happy with... but why complain... as long as most of you can play...

xROTx

PS. I look at the big picture... SURE there's the minutae... and i take note of them as well.. BUT in the main....

I'm happy with the way things are with the Neosd device...

EDIT: THURSDAYS is my babysitting Grandkiddy day... just sayin'... best not try to stress me out here...

Razoola
03-02-2017, 08:35 AM
Well, I don't see it as a fault in the cart. All electronic devices have tolerances, not all devices are manufactured exactly the same. The flash and erase times given by the manufacturer are mean times, so there are faster and slower flashes, the same way there are speed differences in a SD card when you use it on a PC, even using two cards of the same model, that's normal. I can show you some data, taken from manufacturer manual:

S29GL128P (page 62): Chip erase time: typical 64s. Maximum: 256s . The first erase cycle, that would erase the P rom data, that is 1MB + 8MB is then: 64s for 16MB -> 36s for 9MB, that means, 36s is the typical value, but according to a table, it could go up to 144s, and still it's in spec, so, that's not an issue, that's normal. What the manufacturer doesn't state is how temperature or voltage affects to these values, keep in mind that we are using 3.3V (right in the middle of the spec 3.0V to 3.6V), so, does it increase the flashing time? maybe, it's not explained, maybe in some flash chips it does, maybe in other it doesn't. Who is seeing 37s in flash erase time, are in the "typical" range, and 50s? yes, it's still in range, it's not the typical, but it's well below the maximum.
You can refer to that manual, it's public, just search for S29GL128P in the Cypress page.

Yes you are right in what you are saying but you are forgetting the following that has been brought up in the thread already. As I understand how it was written in this thread Yosh41 has tried the AES NeoSD and MVS NeoSD (with converter) on the same AES system. Same AES, same PSU, same room tempreture. The MVS NeoSD was 20% faster because his AES neoSD seems to have this issue. In his test you must also agree something other than the AES, PSU or room tempreture is causing the flash chips on his AES NeoSD to act differently.

Its difficult to say in his case that it is not a fault given it seems at the moment that the majority of people do not have this issue. If one on the other hand we were to take the chip specs into account and as the reason for this, one would more expected to see slower times as the norm, and affecting far more NeoSDs than is.

Gyrian
03-02-2017, 08:37 AM
While I do like to explore these questions we're discussing (why I ultimately contributed my data points), I do want to make it clear that none of this has made one lick of difference to my enjoyment of my NeoSD. These times might read long on paper, but I haven't found the process to be a bother.

Given the options, I do value how the design was laid out. The behavior that accurately reflects a real cart once flashed is great. For my part, it's also kind of a plus that it's better used one game at a time. I find the vast libraries one tends to fill these flash carts with sort of paralyzing sometimes.

neodev
03-02-2017, 08:43 AM
Yes you are right in what you are saying but you are forgetting the following that has been brought up in the thread already. As I understand how it was written in this thread Yosh41 has tried the AES NeoSD and MVS NeoSD (with converter) on the same AES system. Same AES, same PSU, same room tempreture. The MVS NeoSD was 20% faster because his AES neoSD seems to have this issue. In his test you must also agree something other than the AES, PSU or room tempreture is causing the flash chips on his AES NeoSD to act differently.

Its difficult to say in his case that it is not a fault given it seems at the moment that the majority of people do not have this issue. If one on the other hand were to take the chip specs into account and as the reason, one would more expected to see slower times affecting far more NeoSDs than is.

Also, AES carts are a bit slower programming because the data goes through the extra FPGA chip in the CHA board and there is a small protocol there, as it controls the C flash data lines, so it having a slower flashing speed in AES is normal.

But as I said, it's not an issue that some carts are slower, their flashes are well in the manufacturer specs. The flashrom manufacturer probably gives a wide range so they don't have to scrap many flash chips that would not fit in a narrower range.

Razoola
03-02-2017, 08:57 AM
Hehe...

You see Raz... I view this perceived issue as how i view the forum... there's range of opinions and posts i will accept and then there's crossing the line...

The device works... tolerance 20%... that's fine...

Not every pcb will have the exact same width of soldering... not ever pcb will have exctly the same pin length...

As long as the device works and the customers are happy... why worry....

It's like I said how I view the forum... there's a few things that you may not be happy with... but why complain... as long as most of you can play...

xROTx

PS. I look at the big picture... SURE there's the minutae... and i take note of them as well.. BUT in the main....

I'm happy with the way things are with the Neosd device...

EDIT: THURSDAYS is my babysitting Grandkiddy day... just sayin'... best not try to stress me out here...

Yes thats one way of looking at it.

The other way is this. I have reviewed the product and at the moment I would guess and say maybe 1 or 2 percent of NeoSDs sold so far (based on this thread) are 20% slower than the other 98 or 99 percent when it comes to flashing a few games. For most people I fully agree this may be 100% acceptable but its our job (well espicially my job given I reviewed the product) not to hide this fact.

You know how it is, member 'a' may not be happy that he paid the same 400 as member 'b' but his NeoSD is 20% slower. Then goes on to buying SD cards to try and solve something that cannot be fixed unless he tries a different NeoSD cart.

To be honest I wish I did not discover this issue, but unfortunatey with the help of neosd himself I did. Up until that point it was discovered he was 100% sure there could be nothing on the NeoSD that could cause this difference in speed. A few tests and sdcards later its 99% likely to be something on the NeoSD causing this.

Razoola
03-02-2017, 09:05 AM
Also, AES carts are a bit slower programming because the data goes through the extra FPGA chip in the CHA board and there is a small protocol there, as it controls the C flash data lines, so it having a slower flashing speed in AES is normal.

But as I said, it's not an issue that some carts are slower, their flashes are well in the manufacturer specs. The flashrom manufacturer probably gives a wide range so they don't have to scrap many flash chips that would not fit in a narrower range.

Yes there is a very slight speed difference with the AES card, but its really really low (1% maybe) and not the great difference in speed a couple have had.

Given the wide range the manufacturer gives, the results so far clearly point that is not the cause. Mainly because this would be a more 50/50 split on the people affected, espicially given the number of chips on each NeoSD.

mastamuzz
03-02-2017, 09:14 AM
I remember the time when there was no NeoSD and also when they came out of the blue with a cart that worked 99% then 100% after msX so why are we getting the underwear in a bunch now? It works it's here and who paid for it enjoys it! Let the NeoSD team surprise us again with an update adding things, forcing shit at this moment is completely stupid.

Razoola
03-02-2017, 09:21 AM
No one is getting their knickers in a twist :) , the NeoSD is a great product period.

Its about letting people know this issue may be present on their NeoSD if they start wondering why they can't hit the same flashing times others report.

daithidownunder
03-02-2017, 10:02 AM
No one is getting their knickers in a twist :) , the NeoSD is a great product period.

Its about letting people know this issue may be present on their NeoSD if they start wondering why they can't hit the same flashing times others report.
Agreed, it's important to discuss these things in an open forum.

Sent from my HTC 2PST1 using Tapatalk

greatfunky
03-02-2017, 12:10 PM
A question for neodev comes to my mind : will it be possible to improve again in the future the loading speed or are we at the maximum limit ?:smirk:

benjiedude
03-02-2017, 05:14 PM
No one is getting their knickers in a twist :) , the NeoSD is a great product period.

Its about letting people know this issue may be present on their NeoSD if they start wondering why they can't hit the same flashing times others report.

I appreciate you looking into this and posting it here.

mastamuzz
03-03-2017, 01:42 AM
It's been acknowledge by the team and they have stated far too many times there is a part of the team focused on still improving things till there is nothing left to improve, they have never left people hanging and I personally have received great customer service from them and I bet GadgetUK too they do constant follow ups for "real Issues" and they don't stop till is resolved, so creating an issue right now is pointless if the user doesn't see it as an issue, as I said they know and they can work on it in due time, at the moment I believe they still have so many people to attend and give customer service cause soooo many people don't want to come here as a noob even though ROT has been doing an impeccable job to keep noobs in the loop even after being rude some of them.

lets keep in mind that our consoles are not brand new and even same revisions have different behavior, as some may recall I had the sync issue on a 3-6 I have two 3-6 units but the other was still open to be modded, guess what? after reassembled that 3-6 has no issue at all, and given my 3-3 had no issue I ruled that as a problem with the console not the cart but not everyone has different consoles to try. so we might see this as an issue with the cart but it might not be.

what I mean with this is that we should let them work on it, having testicular jumper cables attached wont help, the "other product" can come out today or 2025 who knows.

but I am starting to wonder if there is truth to Mitsu's and darksoft words........

Rot
03-03-2017, 03:12 AM
but I am starting to wonder if there is truth to Mitsu's and darksoft words........

Please expand on this...:p

xROTx

GadgetUK
03-06-2017, 07:26 AM
I didn't realise this flash time thing had become an area of concern! My first thoughts are there are two possibilities here:-

1) Tolerance difference in the flash ROMs, but 20% seems like a lot - but maybe that is within manufacture specs?
2) Speed of the erase process - I wonder where the ARM gets its clock from? Is it theoretically possible that a clock is too slow or missing some cycles for some reason.

With regards to programming differences:-


It is probably better to separate erase time vs programming time to work out where the bottlenecks are.

Raz, out of interest, have you tried your cart in another MVS to see if the timings are the same? If so, that would point to just tolerance differences between the flash ROMs perhaps. Unless there's some clock thing going on where on some boards the ARM is running faster than on other boards, but I cannot think how, unless the ARM takes its own clock from the MVS, and perhaps there's a difference there. I assume the ARM just "does its own thing" and erases the flash ROM in parallel to the MVS 68K, so the 68K isn't actually sending any erase commands to the board, other than perhaps an initial - "erase these blocks {range from : to}" etc. If the 68K is doing some of the leg work, then maybe the BIOS could have an effect - I am thinking about interrupts etc.

Razoola
03-06-2017, 08:43 AM
Hi Gadget, yes, I have tried everything. There is an issue there and its defo related to the NeoSD, three different MVS systems were tried. Then there is also the results yoshi did on an AES with two NeoSDs.

That said neodev is looking at it and has an idea to try given he had some weird situations long ago. Hopefully I'll get a firmware to check at some point later today to test. The exact reason of what is happening is not known and might well be down to issues in some flash chips themself.

The strange thing here is in relation to the times. ATM at least it seems very strange that once the sdcard speed is taken out of the mix the times seem quite constant. The kof2003 erase time being around 37-40 sec vs 50-52 sec is the first pointer the chips are erasing at different speeds. One would normally expect to see times in the middle also and not only at either end, granted though, there are not many postings related to erase times yet. Thats why I still have my money on an issue thay is probably fixable in firmware. Of course I could be wrong.

I have my fingers crossed. btw, I also mentioned another avenue to neodev that may speed up flashing times for everyone. So even if this is not solved another speed increase may be on the cards in a newer firmware (may not be that massive but would be better than nothing).

Razoola
03-06-2017, 09:05 AM
Forgot to ask, as a matter of interest, what is the timed amount of the 'erase' message you see with kof2003 before the 'flashing' message appears?

GadgetUK
03-06-2017, 11:54 AM
27.14 secs to erase. That was after flashing kof2k3, when shock troopers was previously flashed.

EDIT: And from KoF2003 erased to Metal Slug 5, 23.9 seconds for the erase.

It's going to sound a bit crazy this, but has anyone measured temperature vs flash time? The room my MVS is running in is out door temperatures at the moment - ie. really cold, a few degrees above C. I do wonder if it will slow down a bit when warmed up to room temperature.

Razoola
03-06-2017, 12:13 PM
27.14 secs to erase. That was after flashing kof2k3, when shock troopers was previously flashed.

EDIT: And from KoF2003 erased to Metal Slug 5, 23.9 seconds for the erase.

It's going to sound a bit crazy this, but has anyone measured temperature vs flash time? The room my MVS is running in is out door temperatures at the moment - ie. really cold, a few degrees above C. I do wonder if it will slow down a bit when warmed up to room temperature.

You need to flash kof2003, then flash it again and time that. I suspect it will then it will be around 37 seconds. As a matter of interest can you also time the total time (erase+flash)

I have tested with tempreture. In my case the warmer it is, the slower the speed, thats starting from about 18c roon tempreture.

Raz

GadgetUK
03-06-2017, 12:25 PM
You need to flash kof2003, then flash it again and time that. I suspect it will then it will be around 37 seconds. As a matter of interest can you also time the total time (erase+flash)

I have tested with tempreture. In my case the warmer it is, the slower the speed, thats starting from about 18c roon tempreture.

Raz

A fraction over 27 secs to erase! It's freezing in here though!

EDIT: Total time 2 mins 48 secs.

greatfunky
03-06-2017, 12:27 PM
About temperatures , i use my neosd mvs in the same condition as Gadget : cold room , near outdoor temp , however i use my neosd aes in the house (20°C) and i get a very very close timing on both neosd (more or less one or two seconds difference).

GadgetUK
03-06-2017, 12:39 PM
About temperatures , i use my neosd mvs in the same condition as Gadget : cold room , near outdoor temp , however i use my neosd aes in the house (20°C) and i get a very very close timing on both neosd (more or less one or two seconds difference).

That's good to know, so sounds like we can rule out temperature. My guess is its just differences between chips. If I remember correctly, one of the things about nand flash is there's sort of ECC block and an error mapping system (hence how these chips can be flashed so many times, they are not only high quality but have a large amount of additional space to deal with errors. It's possible that because of that error management process that's why they vary in their timings. Because some chips could have a different distribution of errors than others, and that distribution pattern could affect timing when erasing and writing? I could be talking crap, but I've seen similar timing differences on Everdrives before now, although when you are comparing two programming operations that take 4 or 5 seconds the difference is a lot less noticeable.

greatfunky
03-06-2017, 12:49 PM
That's good to know, so sounds like we can rule out temperature. My guess is its just differences between chips. If I remember correctly, one of the things about nand flash is there's sort of ECC block and an error mapping system (hence how these chips can be flashed so many times, they are not only high quality but have a large amount of additional space to deal with errors. It's possible that because of that error management process that's why they vary in their timings. Because some chips could have a different distribution of errors than others, and that distribution pattern could affect timing when erasing and writing? I could be talking crap, but I've seen similar timing differences on Everdrives before now, although when you are comparing two programming operations that take 4 or 5 seconds the difference is a lot less noticeable.

Yes , chips differences seems more likely , just think about overclocking on identical CPUs , some are more stable than others and could be overclocked at a higher speed , sometimes with huge differences.

shaneboc
03-06-2017, 12:59 PM
@ neodev

Hi neodev,
just got my aes cart and wanted to thank you and your team again for the great product. I have had no issues with the cart and wanted once again to say thank you for such a great product and over the top fantastic service that you have provide the neo geo community.

GadgetUK
03-06-2017, 01:04 PM
The other thing that supports it being the chips themselves - if you do the math, mine works out approximately 50% faster at erase, but only 8% faster on programming. So there is a difference in prog speed too, not just erase speed.

When all is said and done (and I know its easy for me to say because mine seems fast at the moment), when you are looking at 2 mins 48 vs 3 mins 25, its approx 20%. It's really not a big deal (well to me at least). I know that's easy for me to say, but what's an extra 30 seconds when you've waited 3 mins anyway. If you had known in advance that it could be + or - 20% would you be bothered, I know I wouldn't - I still would have bought one regardless.

I also think we should let neodev look into it more when he has time, maybe a firmware update could tweak this - maybe its not the problem we think it is, and maybe its something that can be tweaked in firmware, who knows. It's also worth considering that before we had the 'faster flash erase' update, it took longer for everyone. So if anything, we are all better off than at the start - if that makes sense? I am not trying to dismiss this, I am just trying to change perspective on it. Lets keep thinking about it, but not get overly stressed about it.

yoshi41
03-06-2017, 01:58 PM
Some more testing with erase time...

AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:38
KOF 2003 - Total - 3:22

Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:32
KOF 2003 - Total - 2:49

PS: Both NesSD carts are totally great. Just interested to see if this can be fixed somehow.

TMOSteel
03-06-2017, 02:22 PM
Question: the Neosd only supports up to SDHC card format, not SDXC, correct? SDXC default format is also exFAT, and I believe the Neosd only supports FAT32, is that right?

Rot
03-06-2017, 03:24 PM
Some more testing with erase time...

AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:38
KOF 2003 - Total - 3:22

Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:32
KOF 2003 - Total - 2:49

PS: Both NesSD carts are totally great. Just interested to see if this can be fixed somehow.

I think neodev said... no...

There are restrictions with the AES side...

Important thing... does it work?... Answer... Yes...

Do you swap games every 30 minutes?... IF... the answer is Yes... then you're a tard...

xROTx

Takumaji
03-06-2017, 03:27 PM
Do you swap games every 30 minutes?... IF... the answer is Yes... then you're a tard...

Damn straight.

Razoola
03-06-2017, 03:46 PM
Yea, there are some differences with the AES compared to MVS but thats something seperate to this issue.

Rot
03-06-2017, 03:54 PM
Yea, there are some differences with the AES compated to MVS but thats something seperate to this issue.

I really don't care about this... as long as the device works... a 20% difference means very little in the great scheme of things...

On the other hand if people came out of the woodwork and said the device wasn't working and the Neosd couldn't fixit... then i'd get interested...

I am here viewing the overall makeup of our forum... the forums sense of entitlement to make issues out of what i think as non-issues... is sorta grating on my nerves somewhat...

This is because... the device works... I DO NOT care if there is a variation of 20%... I DO NOT care if people think it's important because they swap games every 30 minutes...

The only thing I care about is the overall care of our community... not individuals... and this is why I am where I am..

xROTx

Razoola
03-06-2017, 04:12 PM
Yes, this is a technical thing only. Its clear for you this is no biggie. Given this thread here is about sdcard / load times, its important the issue is discussed. Espicially given how it seems the sdcard is looking less likley the deciding factor governing load times and more about if one is lucky to have a neosd that is better proforming than the next off the product line. I'm hopeful through discussion about this situation and sharing of information and data, a solution can be more easily discovered.

The times posted by Gadget for example are intresting given his erase times appear faster than the spec.

benjiedude
03-06-2017, 04:33 PM
Finally got around to timing my cart. I'm within the norm for AES as others have reported. I have a stock, no Unibios, US AES in the 13,000's. SanDisk class 10 16gb.

KOF 2003- 3:27
Magician Lord- 24.2 secs

Rot
03-06-2017, 04:43 PM
Technical... Schmehnical.... So there's a variation... 20% as stated...

Does it affect the gameplay?... nope...
Does it affect your enjoyment of the games?... nope...

I remember when the AF 3 affair was happening... and certain guys were viewing that it as a technical masterpiece...

...When infact the bigger picture was far... FAR... more complicated...

I view this case as such... I may not have the tech brains but I don't view the forums as a tech hangout...

This point maybe important to some... but in reality in the great scheme of things... it's not even close to the top of whats truly important for this device...

Gameplay...
Hardware Compatability...
Ease of Firmware upgrade... etc etc...

THESE are some of the things that are important... not a measly 20% on a working device....

Geez... get a grip here...

xROTx

Yodd
03-06-2017, 08:56 PM
When I was doing testing for my review video and the follow up firmware video, I noticed that flash and erase times were not consistent. I would flash the same games, in order, rotating through the list. Sometimes the flash times would be identical, other times vastly different. This was especially true when I used the expensive Sandisk card. With the cheap class 10 they were more consistent, though some times it varied.


So, in my experience the cheaper cards deliver a more consistent (and usually faster) flash time.

massimiliano
03-06-2017, 10:11 PM
Rot, what's the point of this thread if not discussing timers? I mean, if trough Raz's analysis, we are gonna end with a clear picture about SD cards and factors influencing loading times, I guess it should be welcome..or not? (at least in this very thread, I 100% agree being anal about this i.e. in the general thread, would be just meh-sturbation)

Razoola
03-07-2017, 12:18 AM
Yodd, yup the previous flashed game indeed plays a role in the flash time but that is not part of this issue. Its why its important to flash the game twice and only time the 2nd run. Its a weird situation.

It has only come to light becase neosd mentions a time of 2:42 to flash kof2003 and in my effort to hit the same time on the neoSD, I can only hit a time of 3:25 (various mvs tried). Thats using an sdcard neosd sent me which he verified flashed in 2:42 before he sent.

We are just trying to gather info to find the cause and hopefully if possible a fix that can be applied via firmware.

Rot
03-07-2017, 03:22 AM
Rot, what's the point of this thread if not discussing timers? I mean, if trough Raz's analysis, we are gonna end with a clear picture about SD cards and factors influencing loading times, I guess it should be welcome..or not? (at least in this very thread, I 100% agree being anal about this i.e. in the general thread, would be just meh-sturbation)

Meh Massi...

Over the past 3 weeks... I've sat in chat and watched the forum play silly buggers with the Neosd team...

Neosd and Neodev had to deal with:

1. Scammers...
2. People taking the piss... complaining about mainly cosmetic stuff...
3. People not understanding we are on a 3 decade old system and there will be variation across the board due to... age, components used and set-ups etc etc...
4. People complaining for the sake of complaining...

The reason I'm involved is this state of affairs is... it's annoying me somewhat...

xROTx

PS. I've had 2 hours sleep... tired... just sayin' there maybe limited Rot response "type"...

Yodd
03-07-2017, 09:08 AM
Yodd, yup the previous flashed game indeed plays a role in the flash time but that is not part of this issue. Its why its important to flash the game twice and only time the 2nd run. Its a weird situation.

It has only come to light becase neosd mentions a time of 2:42 to flash kof2003 and in my effort to hit the same time on the neoSD, I can only hit a time of 3:25 (various mvs tried). Thats using an sdcard neosd sent me which he verified flashed in 2:42 before he sent.

We are just trying to gather info to find the cause and hopefully if possible a fix that can be applied via firmware.



Yeah, with the current firmware I hit right around 2:40 flashing KoF2003.


Has NEOSD looked at your neosd to see if there is some issue with it?


Cause if pretty much everyone else is getting faster flash times than you and you have tried different MVS boards...I think the conclusion is kinda obvious.

neosd
03-07-2017, 10:28 AM
Yeah, with the current firmware I hit right around 2:40 flashing KoF2003.


Has NEOSD looked at your neosd to see if there is some issue with it?


Cause if pretty much everyone else is getting faster flash times than you and you have tried different MVS boards...I think the conclusion is kinda obvious.

He has a preseries NEOSD we gave him free of charge, his cart is different, minor changes, but there are changes

Razoola
03-07-2017, 11:35 AM
Yup, its different. Its been ruled out however that this does not play a part given others with the final version have the same issue and your partner said his pre version (same spec as what you gave me to review) does not either. The tests in this thread also confirm this and you have known this for some time so I'm not sure why you point this out again like it means something.

Yodd, neosd already knows I have no problem returning the pre version but given neodev has neosd in his hands that also suffers the slow erase times like me its not as important to have the neosd I have on hand to help find the cause. When I agreed to review the neoSD it was also agreed a final neoSD version would be sent but this has not happened yet because neosd has been very busy. I guess once thats sent to me it will solve the flash times for me at least (if its tested first), at the end of the day though it important to see if a fix is possible for everyone effected via firmware.

Yodd
03-07-2017, 11:38 AM
Maybe it's the phase of the moon. Or solar flares.


Yeah, solar flares.

Razoola
03-07-2017, 11:42 AM
Maybe it's the phase of the moon. Or solar flares.

Yeah, solar flares.

We do get the Northern lights often in our part of the world :)

Sceptre_JLRB
03-07-2017, 03:35 PM
Maybe it's the phase of the moon. Or solar flares.


Yeah, solar flares.

...Or cosmic rays! ...Or even meigas' things!!!
:lolz:

massimiliano
03-07-2017, 08:00 PM
Meh Massi...

Over the past 3 weeks... I've sat in chat and watched the forum play silly buggers with the Neosd team...

Neosd and Neodev had to deal with:

1. Scammers...
2. People taking the piss... complaining about mainly cosmetic stuff...
3. People not understanding we are on a 3 decade old system and there will be variation across the board due to... age, components used and set-ups etc etc...
4. People complaining for the sake of complaining...

The reason I'm involved is this state of affairs is... it's annoying me somewhat...

xROTx

PS. I've had 2 hours sleep... tired... just sayin' there maybe limited Rot response "type"...

Fair enough, I had no visibility about it, I understand, thanks ...I guess that's why I like so much having you behind this... so I do not have to think too much! ;)

Rot
03-08-2017, 06:17 AM
Fair enough, I had no visibility about it, I understand, thanks ...I guess that's why I like so much having you behind this... so I do not have to think too much! ;)

It has been suggested that I have bathed the Neosd in cotton wool... and to a point it's a valid statement...

However, I take the forum as a whole... for example... a LOT of our memberbase have the Neosd device now... there have been no complaints about it not doing what it's meant to do...

IF there was an issue with it not working... sure... I'd feel it's a valid complaint...

But concerning this whole load time situ... There's sometimes a 20% variance... IMO... so what, as long as it works...

The Neosd team have done very well concerning firmware updates to try and ensure the device works on the massive catalogue of NG.com hardware and individual setups... and that to me is where it really is...

People have argued in the past with myself as to where I draw the lines between what I feel is a valid concern and what they feel needs to be addressed... and I'm not perfect so I review my position from time to time...

However, I feel this load time thingy is a non-issue and the Neosd team are applying themselves very well here...

xROTx

PS. I draw imaginary lines in the sand... sometimes I shift those lines if you can persuade me...

I don't change my mind very often... but I do listen...

Razoola
03-08-2017, 07:15 AM
However, I feel this load time thingy is a non-issue and the Neosd team are applying themselves very well here...

I'm not sure that can apply to neosd's last post here on the matter, given he knows that aspect had been ruled out.

Neodogg
03-14-2017, 11:06 AM
Why isn't all this data in an easy to read spreadsheet with graphs?

Rot
03-14-2017, 11:10 AM
Why isn't all this data in an easy to read spreadsheet with graphs?

You have my permission Poochie to create this excel spreadsheet and pie chart if you like...

I'm lazy...

xROTx

Niko
03-14-2017, 07:51 PM
43486

0. Neo Geo AES
1. PNY Elite 32GB (P-SDU32U185EL-GE)
2. NeoSD Firmware v1.05

KOF2k3: 3:06
MagLord: 0:21

Gyrian
03-19-2017, 08:09 AM
Why isn't all this data in an easy to read spreadsheet with graphs?

It is now. I transcribed every documented test in this thread (32) with as much detail as I could discern.

Google Doc Link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oq4YzSuSTRydL2QvHgIdXRlhDtikVUZz9hKooGvT4uQ/edit?usp=sharing)

I'm not great with this tool, so the graph kind of sucks. The big data table is fully filterable, though. Kind of interesting to see them all like this in one place. No big insight beyond what we've been discussing all along, although it is apparent that variances are much wider on AES. SD Card brand & model don't appear to be large contributors, saving a handful of seconds between 'fast' and 'slow' models.

DaytimeDreamer
03-19-2017, 08:27 PM
It is now. I transcribed every documented test in this thread (32) with as much detail as I could discern.

Google Doc Link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oq4YzSuSTRydL2QvHgIdXRlhDtikVUZz9hKooGvT4uQ/edit?usp=sharing)

I'm not great with this tool, so the graph kind of sucks. The big data table is fully filterable, though. Kind of interesting to see them all like this in one place. No big insight beyond what we've been discussing all along, although it is apparent that variances are much wider on AES. SD Card brand & model don't appear to be large contributors, saving a handful of seconds between 'fast' and 'slow' models.

Great stuff. So longer flash times for KOF2003 are only to be found in the AES version of NeoSD. Wonder if it's something to do with the AES hardware itself. Again, great work with putting this together.

Gyrian
03-19-2017, 09:43 PM
Great stuff. So longer flash times for KOF2003 are only to be found in the AES version of NeoSD. Wonder if it's something to do with the AES hardware itself. Again, great work with putting this together.

Thanks! Yes, the AES version is a touch slower than MVS. Neodev explained it here earlier:


Yes, AES is a bit slower flashing, that's normal. It happens because on MVS, in order to write the flashes, the MCU has direct access to the data bus and can stream data directly to the C flashes, but on AES, it goes through the sprite serializer chip and it introduces a small delay as there is a small protocol there to select which rom each value goes to.

Razoola
03-20-2017, 04:55 AM
Unfortuntely although you have put a good effort into the table which is commendable it is inaccurate as a tool for finding out loading speeds based on microSD card brand and type. It is known there can be a 20% difference in speed based on the physical NeoSD which has nothing to do with the microsd card used, the type of system (AES/MVS), tempretures and voltages supplied to the unit.

To be clear, with the information as it is now at the moment it can be said the expected loading time for kof2003 is 3:00 plus or minus 10% variance, and that the fastest sdcards cannot be assumed to give the fastest loading speeds. A mircoSD card for one person may result in a loading time of 2:42. That same microSD card used in another NeoSD in the same NeoGeo can result in loading time of 3:25 and no faster.

The exact cause of this is not known but the neogeo, voltage and tempreture have been ruled out as the main cause. Presently, because a firmware bug has not been ruled out (to my knowledge) this difference in loading times is being put down to variances in flashchip preformance on each NeoSD unit. This means that while the NeoSD works and flashes correctly, you are either blessed with a NeoSD that can flash games quicker than the average, or you are unlucky and have a NeoSD than is slower than the average. While a faster microSD card can gain you some seconds it cannot get around the limiting time needed to erase and programe the flashchips.

Gyrian
03-20-2017, 06:54 AM
I concluded as much too, Raz.
As it stands now, it's a decent sample describing what to expect within the normal range when you buy one of these. One bit that's interesting from the dataset is the frequency of the "20% speed difference" factor, which if roughly defined by KOF2003 times of around 3:20, has this showing up in 4 out of 10 NeoSD AES. The data also show much smaller impact for the MVS version, if we define 20% units as those posting times of around 2:55 (much smaller time spread). The fastest AES units are roughly comparable to the slowest MVS units.

Razoola
03-20-2017, 07:31 AM
Yes, Whats annoying is if you have a neoSD flashing in the 3:20 range, there is presently no known steps you can do to improove the situation.

There probably is not enough information to say the following is right with certintity but I would guess (and remember this is a guess based on whats known so far only) that there is one of three speed ranges of each NeoSD is able to flash kof2003 providing a spec class10 SD card is being used. Roughly around 2:40-2:55, 2:55-3:10 or 3:20-3:35, Times within these ranges are then related to things like microSD card speed, voltages and tempreture.

greatfunky
03-20-2017, 12:50 PM
The fastest AES units are roughly comparable to the slowest MVS units.

Not in my case , i got the same time on kof 2003 , 2:50 on both neosd ,which is not bad for a mvs version.
I really can't decide which is the faster , i probably got a good AES version.

GadgetUK
03-20-2017, 01:23 PM
If you take the 2:55 vs 3:35 (that is, slowest times for the fastest and slowest examples)

It breaks down to

175 seconds vs 215, which comes out at approx 19% difference.

The reason we are seeing this an no one has queried it with other flash carts is you don't notice it on other flashcarts due to the often very short programming times related to tiny ROM images. For example, 19% difference between 2 x Everdrive or SD2SNES etc could result in a negligble difference. If you time say 5 seconds to program a cart on a SNES or Megadrive, would you honestly notice between 0.5 sec to 1 sec difference to anyone elses cart - almost definitely not, and in fact I've never seen anyone report that as a problem because no one else has noticed it up until now, and that's because the games on the neo geo are obviously much larger and this technology just hasn't really been used for games this large before.

An alternative is if you get a cart you think is too slow for you, just stick it on eBay and buy another - you will get 100% asking price (maybe more) due to PayPal on eBay! The reality is the manufacturer does not tell you in advance which flash ROMs will perform at the better end of that 20% tolerance and which perform at the slower end of that 20% - so what are the Neo SD team expected to do? I would suggest when they update their website with specs etc, they just clearly state "average programming time for KoF2003 is ~3 minutes, but it could be up to 20% more or less and performance can be affected by micro SD speed".

The other alternative is for Neo SD to start using even faster lower tolerance chips and increase the cost by a hefty percentage - wild guess, additional 100 euros or more, and maybe then it might have 10% tolerance still.

I am sure if there's any way to improve performance in future, they will let us know. Their whole aim from the start here was to make this as stable and as fast as possible, and as said before we are all better off than where we started because the 'faster firmware update' was around 30% faster to start with. Beyond that, what else would you expect, a recall to swap out the ROM chips with faster ones (that would involve massive costs and no one in their right mind would do it)???? For one thing, think of the cost of the chips alone - lets say 10% of them perform 20% faster than others, does that mean they have to start binning or selling 90% of the chips they buy in, and the logistics behind testing those chips in advance would be an absolute nightmare.

I did suggest that if people start getting stressed about this that the next firmware update should slow all carts down to equal footing - that sounds counter productive, but it seems to me like people are getting stressed about that 19% and it might stop the concerns here.

Sorry if that sounded like a rant, it wasn't supposed to be. It just feels to me like this thread has turned into another thread to p*** off the Neo SD team.

greatfunky
03-20-2017, 01:35 PM
If you take the 2:55 vs 3:35 (that is, slowest times for the fastest and slowest examples)

It breaks down to

175 seconds vs 215, which comes out at approx 19% difference.

The reason we are seeing this an no one has queried it with other flash carts is you don't notice it on other flashcarts due to the often very short programming times related to tiny ROM images. For example, 19% difference between 2 x Everdrive or SD2SNES etc could result in a negligble difference. If you time say 5 seconds to program a cart on a SNES or Megadrive, would you honestly notice between 0.5 sec to 1 sec difference to anyone elses cart - almost definitely not, and in fact I've never seen anyone report that as a problem because no one else has noticed it up until now, and that's because the games on the neo geo are obviously much larger and this technology just hasn't really been used for games this large before.

An alternative is if you get a cart you think is too slow for you, just stick it on eBay and buy another - you will get 100% asking price (maybe more) due to PayPal on eBay! The reality is the manufacturer does not tell you in advance which flash ROMs will perform at the better end of that 20% tolerance and which perform at the slower end of that 20% - so what are the Neo SD team expected to do? I would suggest when they update their website with specs etc, they just clearly state "average programming time for KoF2003 is ~3 minutes, but it could be up to 20% more or less and performance can be affected by micro SD speed".

The other alternative is for Neo SD to start using even faster lower tolerance chips and increase the cost by a hefty percentage - wild guess, additional 100 euros or more, and maybe then it might have 10% tolerance still.

I am sure if there's any way to improve performance in future, they will let us know. Their whole aim from the start here was to make this as stable and as fast as possible, and as said before we are all better off than where we started because the 'faster firmware update' was around 30% faster to start with. Beyond that, what else would you expect, a recall to swap out the ROM chips with faster ones (that would involve massive costs and no one in their right mind would do it)???? For one thing, think of the cost of the chips alone - lets say 10% of them perform 20% faster than others, does that mean they have to start binning or selling 90% of the chips they buy in, and the logistics behind testing those chips in advance would be an absolute nightmare.

I did suggest that if people start getting stressed about this that the next firmware update should slow all carts down to equal footing - that sounds counter productive, but it seems to me like people are getting stressed about that 19% and it might stop the concerns here.

Sorry if that sounded like a rant, it wasn't supposed to be. It just feels to me like this thread has turned into another thread to p*** off the Neo SD team.

100% agree with you Gadget , I find that story of speed does not lead anywhere now ....

Rot
03-20-2017, 01:36 PM
OK OK... NEXT person to start complaining about load times that is not completely necessary.... gets 24 hours in the War room...

NO EXCEPTIONS!

xROTx

PS. ....YOU KNOW WHO I AM REFERRING TOO!

Razoola
03-20-2017, 02:27 PM
I am sure if there's any way to improve performance in future, they will let us know. Their whole aim from the start here was to make this as stable and as fast as possible.

I would suggest when they update their website with specs etc, they just clearly state "average programming time for KoF2003 is ~3 minutes, but it could be up to 20% more or less and performance can be affected by micro SD speed".

Sorry if that sounded like a rant, it wasn't supposed to be. It just feels to me like this thread has turned into another thread to p*** off the Neo SD team.

I think you have got it a little out of porportion there. No one is trying to rant or piss of neosd (or anyone else), this thread is about posting information gathered in relation to loading. You may very well be right about these kinds of differences affecting other devices but because in general the games are smaller the loading times are not as noticeable. Likewise if you look in relation to maglord loadtimes you can see these issues affecting kof2003 load times do not follow though for that game at all.

A time of 2:42 loading kof2003 was reported by neosd himself in the main thread and a microsd card known to hit that speed for neosd could only hit 3:27 on another NeoSD. Currently neosd himself holds the record for the fastest loading kof2003, this puts the percentage differentce a little over 20% but what a percent here or there.

I agree that if there is a way to resolve this situation in the future neodev will surely add it to a firmware. Bear in mind however its taken about two months of highlighting this situation (privately also) to get to a situation where neosd acknowledged this situation exists. Before then he said it was impossible for anything on the neosd to cause this difference in speed and it was all microsd card related. Even you yourself stated I likely had a fake sony microsd card (given I had 3:25 plus loading speeds). The issue only came to light because I wanted to be able to take the fastest possible loading neosd to the NeoGeo meet in Helsinki too show it off and verify the fast loading times reported.

I'm with you 100% that it would be really really good if neosd updated the main NeoSD page in the specs section stating that the 'expected loading time for kof2003 is 3:00 minutes +/- 10% even with a fast sdcard'. I have suggested it before already directly to him a month or so ago but he is yet to do it.

Happosai
03-28-2017, 01:35 PM
how long is the lifetime of the AES chips ? How many times can we write/delete/rewrite games on the cardmod ?

MkidTrigun
03-28-2017, 01:47 PM
Just tested a SanDisk Ultra 32GB UHS-1 card in my NeoSD MVS running 1.05 R05-

Magician Lord: 0'21"
King of Fighters 2003: 2'34"

Dug this card out of my GCW-Zero that I hardly touch anymore so the card is a few years old, but it still put up these amazing times. Great stuff all around!

f0rm0za
04-04-2017, 08:05 PM
1) microSDHC 16Gb 533x (SDSQUNC-016G-GN6MA)
43972
2) Firmware 1.05 R05
3) Loading time:
a. KOF2003 2:42 (erase+burn) 2:50 (restart and loaded game)
b. Magician Lord 0:20 (erase+burn) 0:26 (restart and loaded game)

pollsoda
04-08-2017, 01:21 AM
1) microSDHC Sandisk Ultra 32GB UHS-1 (10); formatted FAT32 with 64kB sector size
2) Firmware 1.05 R05
3) Have not measure loading times, but they're <1min generally. TODO: measure speed

If you have issues, you may try formatting with a larger sector size. I'll time my load times for those games here shortly. No issues otherwise.

Sniper
07-03-2017, 03:15 PM
Dear All,

I want to buy SD card for my Flash Cart that I just bought.

The SD card should include all NEO GEO games, both AES and MVS with full descriptions and images.

I am open for all offers and I will pay Cash by Western Union or, my friend's PayPal and the shipment to his address.

Please send offers to my E-mail:
ibrahim22477@gmail.com

Regards,

Sniper

FilthyRear
07-03-2017, 03:38 PM
Dear All,

I want to buy SD card for my Flash Cart that I just bought.

The SD card should include all NEO GEO games, both AES and MVS with full descriptions and images.

I am open for all offers and I will pay Cash by Western Union or, my friend's PayPal and the shipment to his address.

Please send offers to my E-mail:
ibrahim22477@gmail.com

Regards,

Sniper

Seems legit.

Should I send the card to an intermediary, or can I just send it straight to the caliphate?

Rot
07-03-2017, 03:56 PM
Dear All,

I want to buy SD card for my Flash Cart that I just bought.

The SD card should include all NEO GEO games, both AES and MVS with full descriptions and images.

I am open for all offers and I will pay Cash by Western Union or, my friend's PayPal and the shipment to his address.

Please send offers to my E-mail:
ibrahim22477@gmail.com

Regards,

Sniper

Err... why? Just asking...

If you have been paying attention... there's no need for this...

Sniper
07-03-2017, 04:06 PM
Thanks for your reply.
I don't have PayPal account and if I want to buy anything from internet, I asked my friend to pay for me and I pay him cash.

When I talk about address, sure the address should be to the same person who paid, otherwise, there might be a fraud.

Anyways, I appreciate your reply.

Regards,

Sniper

Rot
07-03-2017, 04:11 PM
Thanks for your reply.
I don't have PayPal account and if I want to buy anything from internet, I asked my friend to pay for me and I pay him cash.

When I talk about address, sure the address should be to the same person who paid, otherwise, there might be a fraud.

Anyways, I appreciate your reply.

Regards,

Sniper

NO... What I mean is... you could easily buy your own 16GB microSD card and then go HERE:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?269010-NEOSD-MVS-Support-thread-!&p=4140218&viewfull=1#post4140218

TWO FILES...

The BIG one is the main file... the SMALL one is a RBFF1 Korean variant that was found recently...

BOTH files are password protected...

You will find me in chat... or you will be allowed a ONE time PM to acquire the password(s)...

Copy and paste onto your microSD card... simple..

xROTx

PS. DISCLAIMER... I have access to the passwords only... the files are not mine... (just sayin'...)...

Sniper
07-03-2017, 04:44 PM
Thanks ...

In fact, I am very weak on this computer stuff.

I am old gamer and NEO GEO is the last Console I played in my life.

I know how to play only .... I tried these new things such as SD and Micro SD cards and I damaged few devices and I decided

I'll be waiting for offers.

Thanks,

Sniper

Sniper
07-03-2017, 04:48 PM
Sorry ... forgot to complete my words.

I mean that I decided not to do any technical PC stuff because I don't know how to deal with it.

Rot
07-03-2017, 04:49 PM
Thanks ...

In fact, I am very weak on this computer stuff.

I am old gamer and NEO GEO is the last Console I played in my life.

I know how to play only .... I tried these new things such as SD and Micro SD cards and I damaged few devices and I decided

I'll be waiting for offers.

Thanks,

Sniper

Then.. you may have issues...

Knowing the lads as I do... the reliable people will ignore your request...

There's a lot of reasons for it...

I would wish you luck but you may need slightly more than usual if you can't download a file... unzip it... and copy/paste it onto a microsd card...

xROTx

PS. It's not about the money btw...

Sniper
07-03-2017, 04:59 PM
Thanks again ....

I will wait for offers .... this is all what can I do now.

Regards

madman
07-03-2017, 05:44 PM
Thanks again ....

I will wait for offers .... this is all what can I do now.

Regards

I can do that for US$1,000. Sound like a deal?

FilthyRear
07-03-2017, 07:20 PM
Thanks again ....

I will wait for offers .... this is all what can I do now.

Regards

Maybe to pass the time, you and 11 or 12 of your colleagues can learn how to fly passenger planes filled with enough fuel for a trip across the United States.

neosd
07-04-2017, 04:06 AM
Dear All,

I want to buy SD card for my Flash Cart that I just bought.

The SD card should include all NEO GEO games, both AES and MVS with full descriptions and images.

I am open for all offers and I will pay Cash by Western Union or, my friend's PayPal and the shipment to his address.

Please send offers to my E-mail:
ibrahim22477@gmail.com

Regards,

Sniper

Hello Sniper,

We have sent you an email about your order today.

You have purchased your neosd with UPS and put a postal box as delivery address.

Ups canï½´t ship to postal boxes, could you please answer us by email ?

Thanks

Sniper
07-04-2017, 04:18 AM
Thanks to all
Dear FilthyRear: I am not blaming you, I am blaming my self as I should respect my age and not to post anything or reply your posts.
I am leaving this forum.
Regards,
Sniper

massimiliano
07-04-2017, 10:07 AM
C'mon Sniper dude, don't let a silly comment let you down...if FilthyRear didn't like you already, he wouldn't even posted!

Sniper
07-04-2017, 10:40 AM
You are right ....

I apologized and I decided to leave the forum.

Thanks

massimiliano
07-04-2017, 11:04 AM
not sure if I understand, what I was trying to say is that leaving the forum seems a bit too drastic. Up to you of course.

Rot
07-04-2017, 11:12 AM
not sure if I understand, what I was trying to say is that leaving the forum seems a bit too drastic. Up to you of course.

Some people aren't designed to be on NG.com... best for them to leave nicely...

xROTx

aku
07-04-2017, 04:28 PM
leaving the forum might not be enough. i can be your kaishakunin.

Sunken
07-17-2017, 05:07 AM
Is there a sector size recommended when you format in FAT32? Did you noticed a difference in the loading times?

toaks
07-26-2017, 09:36 PM
When formatting the SD Card for NeoSD does the cluster size matter? What should it be set to?

aha2940
07-26-2017, 11:58 PM
When formatting the SD Card for NeoSD does the cluster size matter? What should it be set to?

I used default size, which I think is 4096 bytes. It works perfectly.

neodev
07-27-2017, 02:11 AM
I used default size, which I think is 4096 bytes. It works perfectly.

Yes, the cluster size should matter, but I haven't done any research on what's the best one. Internally, NeoSD reads the SD data in 4KB blocks, so in theory, that should be the most efficient cluster size, but the one I normally use is 32KB and it's very fast.
What matters most is that the files are not fragmented and the files are contiguous in the directory order, so the MCU doesn't have to read the FAT table often if the clusters indices are within the same sector in the FAT.

A small story: This SD card I use, usually showed the "READING SD CARD" message for about 4 seconds while scanning my neo files. While doing some tests, I moved all my neo files to a directory and when finished, moved them back to the root, and then the message is only show for less than 1 second, so if you want to have a faster neosd menu entry time, try just moving all the .neo to a directory and then back to the root. This probably sets the directory table in the same order the roms are stored in the SD, and it minimizes the times the MCU has to read a new sector because the next directory entry is not right at the end of the previous one. Also I think moving them sorted by name improves this time.

For the actual rom loading time, I don't think the cluster size or fragmentation matter too much,as the actual bottleneck is the flash writting time, and the SD reading is double buffered so while waiting for a block to write to flash, a new one is requested to be read from the SD card, and the SD reading time is usually less than the flash writting time.

toaks
08-03-2017, 09:44 PM
Sandisk Ultra UHS-1 Class 10 16GB
NeoSD MVS firmware 1.06

Magician Lord: 0:26 seconds
KoF2003: 3:03 seconds

Both times are from start of erase to game start

46024

pourquoi655
12-01-2017, 05:20 PM
Hello, I am new to the forum, I am on macos and can not connect to the chat I have a blank page! and I do not have the right to see your profile for you MP, otherwise I just decided to buy a neogeo and order the neosd, so if you wanted to send me the password by MP it would help me, I you would make returns on the link;), thanks in advance
:downb::down::downf::forw::B: AOF2 Power


NO... What I mean is... you could easily buy your own 16GB microSD card and then go HERE:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?269010-NEOSD-MVS-Support-thread-!&p=4140218&viewfull=1#post4140218

TWO FILES...

The BIG one is the main file... the SMALL one is a RBFF1 Korean variant that was found recently...

BOTH files are password protected...

You will find me in chat... or you will be allowed a ONE time PM to acquire the password(s)...

Copy and paste onto your microSD card... simple..

xROTx

PS. DISCLAIMER... I have access to the passwords only... the files are not mine... (just sayin'...)...

RAZO
12-01-2017, 06:38 PM
Hello, I am new to the forum, I am on macos and can not connect to the chat I have a blank page! and I do not have the right to see your profile for you MP, otherwise I just decided to buy a neogeo and order the neosd, so if you wanted to send me the password by MP it would help me, I you would make returns on the link;), thanks in advance
:downb::down::downf::forw::B: AOF2 Power

lol

Rot
12-02-2017, 03:01 AM
Hello, I am new to the forum, I am on macos and can not connect to the chat I have a blank page! and I do not have the right to see your profile for you MP, otherwise I just decided to buy a neogeo and order the neosd, so if you wanted to send me the password by MP it would help me, I you would make returns on the link;), thanks in advance
:downb::down::downf::forw::B: AOF2 Power

Lulz... That post is now defunct...

Just Click here: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?269010-NEOSD-MVS-Support-thread-!&p=4140218&viewfull=1#post4140218

No passwords anymore... follow the instructions...

xROTx

pourquoi655
12-02-2017, 01:58 PM
Hello,

super thank you, so in the end what do you think the best micro SD card to buy? my neosd is in the plane i'm terribly excited from the tried

sr20det510
12-03-2017, 01:25 PM
The most expensive one you can afford you lazy ass.
This whole thread mentions SD cards.
Read and participate.

pourquoi655
12-03-2017, 01:42 PM
Ok Merci, je vais le lire, bonne soirée

sr20det510
12-03-2017, 02:08 PM
Ok Merci, je vais le lire, bonne soirée

You're welcome! : )
Enjoy your NeoSD, post some impressions, and let us know some erase and write times with the card you selected

pourquoi655
12-03-2017, 05:06 PM
that's it I found my precious "SanDisk Extreme Plus UHS I Class 10 16" I'd started noting everything in a text file from page 1 when I came across the google doc lol

pourquoi655
01-11-2018, 11:01 AM
Please delete sorry

Kid Panda
02-07-2018, 02:02 PM
Duh. Wrong area.

Apolo33
04-11-2018, 06:55 PM
Hi, I'm new to the forum, I have a blank page! and I do not have the right to see your profile. Thank you