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neosd
11-21-2016, 11:11 AM
Hello everyone,

Lets ask TECH/support NEOSD MVS questions here.
No shipment/other stuff please.


Thanks

Nostromo
11-22-2016, 02:00 PM
So I have the entire Mame 0.179 in a single folder. After I choose the folder and press START I get the error:

NeoBuilderUI has stopped working and the program crashes.

If I copy only a few files into another folder, so it has much less files in it, it works ok.

Any ideas how I fix this please? Thank you.

Floob
11-22-2016, 02:06 PM
So I have the entire Mame 0.179 in a single folder. After I choose the folder and press START I get the error:

NeoBuilderUI has stopped working and the program crashes.

If I copy only a few files into another folder, so it has much less files in it, it works ok.

Any ideas how I fix this please? Thank you.

You would only need the ~200 Neo Geo romsets though - not the whole mame set?

neosd
11-22-2016, 02:11 PM
Hello,

You can try opening a command prompt and running "neobuilder -d your_mame_roms_directory", it will show the processing progress on screen and you can see the last file it was trying to read, and remove it from the directory. It was not intended to be run against the entire mame romset, but against just the neogeo romsets.

Thanks


So I have the entire Mame 0.179 in a single folder. After I choose the folder and press START I get the error:

NeoBuilderUI has stopped working and the program crashes.

If I copy only a few files into another folder, so it has much less files in it, it works ok.

Any ideas how I fix this please? Thank you.

Floob
11-22-2016, 02:13 PM
You could copy your Neo Geo romsets out with a batch file a bit like this:
http://pastebin.com/raw/6C6KfK39

Obviously rename your destination dir as you see fit.

Razoola
11-22-2016, 02:15 PM
hmmm, I did not have this problem because I have my neogeo things seperate but I can see that many people will have everything in one dir so the error really needs addressing.

Nostromo
11-22-2016, 02:20 PM
For some reason it did not like the folder name were my MAME Roms are found (it was something like "Mame Roms 0.179" - I now renamed it to just "Mame" and it seems to be working.

Razoola
11-22-2016, 02:23 PM
You could copy your Neo Geo romsets out with a batch file a bit like this:
http://pastebin.com/raw/6C6KfK39

Obviously rename your destination dir as you see fit.

That seems to be missing many neogeo sets from MAME, there are 259 sets the NeoBuilder makes, there are only 204 in that bat. The NeoBuilder really needs to handle directories with 33,000 files if that is the cause of the crash.

aku
11-22-2016, 02:25 PM
works pretty well - 188 converted of 268. most of the roms that were not converted are custom stuff (hacks etc.) "unknown, skipped". the strange part is that some of the "normal roms" like pulstar, strhoop etc. got an "internal error"...

i ll get other versions of those and retest...

edit: tested pulstar & strhoop from another source, processed with 0 errors & fine. :)
edit: the first romset i took was not good, retested - 250 files converted to *.neo

only these are missing - but i think i am done...

40730


For some reason it did not like the folder name were my MAME Roms are found (it was something like "Mame Roms 0.179" - I now renamed it to just "Mame" and it seems to be working.

confirmed - it seems that neobuilder does not like "." - f.e: Y:\MAME 0.123\roms and it crashed - Y:\MAME 0\roms worked without a problem

Razoola
11-22-2016, 02:31 PM
Is there instructions with the neobuilder you have? espicially related to requiring the 32bit c++ runtime? if not it may look like the neos are created correctly but they will be wrong.

Rot
11-22-2016, 02:41 PM
OK... It seems that I have access to a pretty full set of 259 sorta "thingies"...

I suppose if you came into chat one day... we maybe able to discuss a wide range of issues...

xROTx

PS. You will need a PC/Laptop with Flash installed...

EDIT: I did NOT buy the neosd but I realised it may that certain factors may not run smoothly... especially this part... so i have taken steps...

neosd
11-22-2016, 02:42 PM
Hello,

Yes, we just have checked that and found the bug, there is an issue with foldernames with . on it, we will fix it and issue a new version.

Also, if you are getting "Internal Error", check that you installed VC2015 redistributable 32 bits versión (vcredist.x86.exe).

Thanks !!



works pretty well - 188 converted of 268. most of the roms that were not converted are custom stuff (hacks etc.) "unknown, skipped". the strange part is that some of the "normal roms" like pulstar, strhoop etc. got an "internal error"...

i ll get other versions of those and retest...



yes - i can confirm that. i tried to change the path to Y:\MAME 0.170 NEO GEO ONLY\roms and it crashed. copied the "roms" folder to desktop and neobuilder worked...

dkarDaGobert
11-22-2016, 02:43 PM
hm 259 is the full set?
i'm only at 188 :(

Razoola
11-22-2016, 02:44 PM
I suggest everyone using the tool delete all the neos thay have made, read the review I did. You need the MS 32bit (not 64bit) C++ runtime installed (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=53587) or the Neobuilder will look like it has worked but in reality will have failed coreating correct .neo files for some games. Looks like neosd forgot to add instructions.

Nostromo
11-22-2016, 02:44 PM
I installed the 64bit version of Microsoft Visual C++ 2015 Redistributable. Is that ok?

Nostromo
11-22-2016, 02:46 PM
I suggest everyone using the tool delete all the neos thay have made, read the review I did. You need the MS 32bit C++ runtime installed (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=53587) or the Neobuilder will look like it has worked but in reality will have failed coreating correct .neo files for some games. Looks like neosd forgot to add instructions.

Now that I installed the 64-bit version, do I have to uninstall it?

Razoola
11-22-2016, 02:48 PM
in the review I clearly say you must use the 32bit runtime even on 64bit os.

neosd
11-22-2016, 02:49 PM
Now that I installed the 64-bit version, do I have to uninstall it?

Hello,

You can have both installed

Thanks !

Razoola
11-22-2016, 02:53 PM
Hello,

You can have both installed

Thanks !

Have you included some instructions with the download now?

neosd
11-22-2016, 02:53 PM
Hello,

We are going to add a function to verify already created roms, to neobuilder.
We hope to have it ready in one or two days.

Thanks !!

neosd
11-22-2016, 02:54 PM
double post, sorry ....

Rot
11-22-2016, 02:56 PM
OK here's the issue neosd pal... you haven't created a FULL instruction set with your tool...

This will include:
1. Basic software needed... MS C++ or whatever...
2. An EXACT instruction pathway to achieve what is needed...
3. An instruction of what sorta mames to use and (I know I know... my fault partly....)

The lads are not all geeky nerd gods.. some of them are quite dumb infact...:D

SO... i have a solution to save yourself from your apparent miscalculation neosd... I am willing to to discuss certain things with members in CHAT only... which will involve 259 plus thingies being available...

xROTx

neosd
11-22-2016, 02:57 PM
Have you included some instructions with the download now?

We have added a quick start guide.
Unfortunally, we thought that instructions about how to use such simple program were not needed.

Thanks !

aku
11-22-2016, 02:59 PM
ohh...just saw your posts, updated my post before

yes - its the "." & the problem was the first fullset i tried (only 188 converted), the second one was better (255 converted)

thanks & good work neosd!

Razoola
11-22-2016, 03:02 PM
We have added a quick start guide.
Unfortunally, we thought that instructions about how to use such simple program were not needed.

Thanks !

There is no way anyone would know about needing the 32bit C++ runtime because the tool does not error when its missing, it simply continues like its working. Even an expert would not find that until they actually tried the games on the NeoSD. You really need to remove the download and add a readme.txt with basic info on how to use it and making it clear the 32 bit runtime is needed and not the 64bit version (if its still the case).

Razoola
11-22-2016, 03:03 PM
ohh...just saw your posts, updated my post before

yes - its the "." & the problem was the first fullset i tried (only 188 converted), the second one was better (255 converted)

thanks & good work neosd!

The sets you are missing is probably irrmaze,mslug2t burningfpa, not sure the last though

neosd
11-22-2016, 03:05 PM
The sets you are missing is probably irrmaze,mslug2t burningfpa, not sure the last though

Hello Raz,

We will upload a new version tomorrow,

Thanks for your input !

aku
11-22-2016, 03:07 PM
the instruction pdf is quite good, the tool is pretty simple - but if its really necessary that it MUST BE THE 32-Bit runtime the pdf should be updated. ;) canīt confirm that, i have both runtimes installed...


The sets you are missing is probably irrmaze,mslug2t burningfpa, not sure the last though

exactly - posted a screenshot of all missing ones..

Razoola
11-22-2016, 03:09 PM
the instruction pdf is quite good, the tool is pretty simple, but if its really necessary that it MUST BE THE 32-Bit runtime the pdf should be updated. ;) canīt confirm that, i have both runtimes installed...

It is the 32bit version that is needed. I only had the 64bit version installed and it caused the tool to make bad ,neo files for some games. After I installed the 32 bit runtime (on my 64bit os) it was fine.

Razoola
11-22-2016, 03:10 PM
Hello Raz,

We will upload a new version tomorrow,

Thanks for your input !

Those sets are in the neobuilder. That was more ment for aku.

neosd
11-22-2016, 03:12 PM
It is the 32bit version that is needed. I only have the 64bit version installed and it caused the tool to fail. After I installed the 32 bit runtime (on my 64bit os) it was fine.

The version you had that generated bad roms with the wrong runtime installed, was a really old version, actual version should not create bad roms.
Anyways, we will fix it tomorrow and we will add the option to check if roms are good or bad, this will solve any issue.

Thanks !

Razoola
11-22-2016, 03:20 PM
The version you had that generated bad roms with the wrong runtime installed, was a really old version, actual version should not create bad roms.
Anyways, we will fix it tomorrow and we will add the option to check if roms are good or bad, this will solve any issue.

Thanks !

Yes it might be the case with newer version but I just don't know, the runtime was required for a critical part of the neo creation with some sets and there was no error message if the runtime was not present before. It would be great if it was no longer needed. The crc check of the final .neo will be a good adition but maybe also a check for the 32bit runtime (if its required still) and a popup error when the ui is launched if its not followed by exit. That would be the best thing.

neosd
11-22-2016, 03:31 PM
Yes it might be the case with newer version but I just don't know, the runtime was required for a critical part of the neo creation with some sets and there was no error message if the runtime was not present before. It would be great if it was no longer needed. The crc check of the final .neo will be a good adition but maybe also a check for the 32bit runtime (if its required still) and a popup error when the ui is launched if its not followed by exit. That would be the best thing.

We will try to add that to the tool as soon as possible.

Thanks for the feedback !

Floob
11-22-2016, 03:53 PM
That seems to be missing many neogeo sets from MAME, there are 259 sets the NeoBuilder makes, there are only 204 in that bat. The NeoBuilder really needs to handle directories with 33,000 files if that is the cause of the crash.

This should be them all hopefully:
http://pastebin.com/raw/6C6KfK39

Nostromo
11-22-2016, 04:06 PM
This should be them all hopefully:
http://pastebin.com/raw/6C6KfK39

Whats that exactly? The command to copy all the official games to a separate folder?

Edit: nope

Floob
11-22-2016, 04:08 PM
Its just in case the conversion process has an issue processing a directory that contains the full MAME romsets.
You could use the above batch file to grab the neo geo files out of there.

I would probably make a copy anyway just in case there was an issue processing the original files.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-22-2016, 08:04 PM
Great job with the NeoBuilder tool!

So far, it's working great for me. I got some "Internal error" / "Bad Roms" issues and some romsets are skipped since they seem to need a different required name (maybe due to my old MAME romset), nothing that can't be solved re-downloading such romsets from different sources or renaming the pre-existing ones. Finally, I am almost done with the full 259 NeoSD 'official' romset.

But here is a simple question: In this NeoBuilderUI version we have been provided, whenever the program generates a .neo file, can it be assumed to be a correct, working one?

Next, I'll continue using the command line program to try to convert some homebrew Neo-Geo games.

Thank you very much and keep up the good work!

Rot
11-23-2016, 03:45 AM
OK OK... I can confirm that there are 259 (plus 4 extras that were included.)... There maybe more homebrews ONLY... but thats as complete as it gets for now..

Someone sent me this:

http://imgur.com/a/KawAp

I can also confirm that I do have a full set of stuffs available to me...

xROTx

PS. The CHAT Room here is FLASH based... just FYI there lads...

EDIT: This post is meant for people who are having "Difficulties"... in certain matters... and if I am in chat (I live in GMT land..)... i will be available to discuss your problems...

manic23
11-23-2016, 03:54 AM
I'm just wondering if the neosd builder could support other file formats other than zip? My sets are in 7z format and other may use rar, not sure just a thought. I am having to unzip then re pack in zip format.

neosd
11-23-2016, 04:21 AM
Hello,

We are just working now on a tool to verify created roms, we have already fixed yesterday reported issues.
Both things, among a readme explaining how to install/use the tool, will be avaliable today.
We are working as fast as possible to get this shorted.

Thanks !!


Great job with the NeoBuilder tool!

So far, it's working great for me. I got some "Internal error" / "Bad Roms" issues and some romsets are skipped since they seem to need a different required name (maybe due to my old MAME romset), nothing that can't be solved re-downloading such romsets from different sources or renaming the pre-existing ones. Finally, I am almost done with the full 259 NeoSD 'official' romset.

But here is a simple question: In this NeoBuilderUI version we have been provided, whenever the program generates a .neo file, can it be assumed to be a correct, working one?

Next, I'll continue using the command line program to try to convert some homebrew Neo-Geo games.

Thank you very much and keep up the good work!

Sceptre_JLRB
11-23-2016, 05:40 AM
Thank you for the new verification tool, neosd!

Finally, I managed to obtain the 259 'canonical' .neo files. In addition, in the "order.txt" file there seem to be 3 additional filenames which yet are not recognized by NeoBuilder in your ROM directory: 'kof10th' (KOF 10th Anniversary), 'kf2k3pcb' (KOF2003 JAMMA PCB) and 'samsho3k' (I guess, Samurai Shodown III Korean Release, aka Fighters Swords, already included and recognized as 'fswords'). Only the latter can be converted manually using the command line, whereas the other two give an 'Invalid romfile structure' error. However, it doesn't matter, as they are repeated game versions and we already have two more 'hacked' versions of KOF 10th which are recognized (KOF 10th Extra Plus / 2005 Unique).

I also used the command line program to yield some .neo files from all my homebrew NG collection, and I can say that almost all seem to be successfully converted, the exception being BIOS-like ROMs (including those of Neo Print), thus raising a total amount of 277 .neo files so far. Let's see if they can be verified with the new tool... ;-)

MattBlah
11-23-2016, 07:25 AM
I've just tried to convert a ROM set I had but I have almost as many games with errors as games that worked. Anyone got any ideas?
http://i.imgur.com/py2FwEA.jpg

Razoola
11-23-2016, 07:33 AM
probably not the correct sets to start with.

Rot
11-23-2016, 07:34 AM
Link is now dead... S'OZ.... (https://pastebin.com/zgUfzP50)

Latest Set as of 28 July 2017... COMPLETE... Includes da' Muzak now... over 13gb on extraction...

xROTx

PS... Copy Paste the individual HTML links into a web browser...

Download... Extract...

neosd
11-23-2016, 09:17 AM
Hello everyone,

Neobuilder 1.02 is up.

http://www.neosdstore.com/news/index.php/2016/11/23/neobuilder-1-02-avaliable-on-downloads-section/

Thanks

Nostromo
11-23-2016, 09:42 AM
Good job NeoSD, works great. And good idea for the validator.

aku
11-23-2016, 09:57 AM
Hello everyone,

Neobuilder 1.02 is up.

http://www.neosdstore.com/news/index.php/2016/11/23/neobuilder-1-02-avaliable-on-downloads-section/


Thanks


validator seems to work fine
32-Bit Runtime is mentioned in the new README - should also be mentioned in the NeoSDMVSFlashCartridge.pdf
problem with "." in path is still present - should be fixed in 1.03

thanks

neosd
11-23-2016, 01:05 PM
validator seems to work fine
32-Bit Runtime is mentioned in the new README - should also be mentioned in the NeoSDMVSFlashCartridge.pdf
problem with "." in path is still present - should be fixed in 1.03

thanks

Hello,

We thought we had this issue addressed, we will look at it again, could you please tell us your foldername ?

Thanks

aku
11-23-2016, 01:21 PM
Hello,

We thought we had this issue addressed, we will look at it again, could you please tell us your foldername ?

Thanks

both paths still crashed the app

Y:\MAME 0.161\roms
Y:\MAME 0.170 NEO GEO ONLY\roms

Sceptre_JLRB
11-23-2016, 02:41 PM
Thanks neosd!
The validation tool works great. As expected, my 259 recognized 'official' .neo files are correct, whereas the remaining 18 'handmade' .neo files appear in the Errors column. No missing known neo files! :-)
Time to copy them to the microSD card... ;-)

The readme file is also detailed and well explained. Congrats again!

Rot
11-23-2016, 04:36 PM
I have been in chat with some guys.... and we have had a nice convo...

Everything seems to be OK concerning my last post...

xROTx

PS. Best come into chat if you still need advice on how to move forward...

JMKurtz
11-23-2016, 07:51 PM
How about an "output folder" option?

poodude
11-24-2016, 12:58 AM
Can anyone tell me where the burningfpa rom is coming from? I have the full set of 0.179 and its the only one not included. Is it from an old deprecated romset?

Rot
11-24-2016, 03:33 AM
Can anyone tell me where the burningfpa rom is coming from? I have the full set of 0.179 and its the only one not included. Is it from an old deprecated romset?

Apparently its hard to find...

EERRR... refer to my post (44)... and then come into chat when i am there...

xROTx

PS. I'd best explain my decision on this one...

neosd should've realised that not everyone is confident or competant in such matters... tool or not...

I understand why he did it this way... but I know this thread would've turned into a shitfest and I would have to clamp down on some of you guys...

This way will mean there should be less posting on the forums about such matters...

EDIT: Just incase you want to know... I did NOT create or host anything... I was given a password... which i just forward it onto you....:):):):):)

AMike
11-24-2016, 04:23 AM
Thanks for the advise.....very helpful🙂😉.

sent from mobile device

neosd
11-24-2016, 05:13 AM
How about an "output folder" option?

Hello,

We will add it on the new version.

Thanks !

dkarDaGobert
11-24-2016, 05:26 AM
some kind of logfiles would also be great.
with my old rompack there were a lot missing roms
kinda annoying to write all those names instead of just copy/paste

MattBlah
11-24-2016, 05:28 AM
As the boards will be exposed, at least until the shell is complete, what would people recommend to use to cover them when not in use, to protect from dust etc.? I will leave mine in my CMVS, but don't want it to be exposed, especially with two dogs running around my house.

poodude
11-24-2016, 11:57 AM
I'll be putting mine in a broken multi cart shell, then into a shockbox.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-24-2016, 08:54 PM
After receiving my NeoSD-MVS and some hours of testing, I'd like to report a couple of issues FYI:

1) As an additional advantage, I've noticed that backup saving system is working great for Hi-Scores and soft-DIP game options, since after using more than 8 games (the maximum number of them that the MVS board backup RAM can save) and loading a previous one, Hi-Scores and soft-DIP configuration are preserved. Moreover, the backup file generated by the NeoSD in the microSD card the first time a game is flashed also adds the previous data from such game if present in the MVS board backup RAM memory as a consecuence of having played the original cartridge. Thereby, this fact also proves that, indeed, the game flashed in the NeoSD behaves exactly as its original cartridge counterpart.

2) Regarding possible bugs, it has come to my attention that in the NeoSD menu, when applying any filter (including favorites), if whichever game is selected, the game loaded will be another one totally different. (I guess this might be due to a mismatched order number between the whole game list and the new one which is displayed when applying such filters.)

Razoola
11-24-2016, 11:44 PM
You are lucky, backupRAM saving/loading did not work for me correctly given the issues I explained in the UI review section. The same will happen to you if your backupRAM erases or corrupts for any reason.

Nostromo
11-25-2016, 01:19 AM
As the boards will be exposed, at least until the shell is complete, what would people recommend to use to cover them when not in use, to protect from dust etc.? I will leave mine in my CMVS, but don't want it to be exposed, especially with two dogs running around my house.

I have a spare MVS shell... if I use that, will I still have to cut a slot for the SD Card, even if I really don't need access to it (I am copying the entire rom collection on the SD Card so its staying inside there forever). Can I just close it and forget about it?

neosd
11-25-2016, 02:14 AM
You are lucky, backupRAM saving/loading did not work for me correctly given the issues I explained in the UI review section. The same will happen to you if your backupRAM erases or corrupts for any reason.

Raz,

Ofcourse it dosent works for you, cause your mvs has a faulty backup ram as you have said previously.
You need a working MVS to get this working.

Thanks

Razoola
11-25-2016, 02:45 AM
Yes I know I can help my situation by replacing the battery. But given how the backupRAM works even if I did that it would still be prone to corrupting/loosing the data with the NeoSD simply given the way the backupRAM is designed for the NeoGeo and how the NeoSD loads and stores the data to the sdcard.

NeoGeo backupRAM is not a SNK system for storing data months on end without daily power and it was never designed as such. If there were no multislot MVS systems made by SNK there would never be a backupRAM system on the NeoGeo, they would have used EEPROM (like CPS2). The NeoGeo system BackupRAM primary purpose is to simply store game data between game swapping on multislots, hold that data overnight and also bookeeping information. It was never designed to be used as a method to save highscores in a way users want today (between long periods on no use).

The NeoGeo does not have a battery that simply lasts 5 years. It is rechargeable and if the user does not play their neogeo very frequently the battery will cause the backupRAM to be lost or corrupt as it looses power until recharged. When that happens the NeoSD data for the current game will also be lost even if its on the sdcard given how your backupRAM loading and saving works presently.

For you to have a fullproof backupRAM storage replacement you must load/sync/save backupRAM before and on every repeat of a games attract mode sequence and save backupRAM to sdcard every time a game experiances game over. Simply doing it once at the point a game is flashed is not enough, data is going to get lost, even on systems with fully working rechargeable batteries depending on the owners usage.

neosd
11-25-2016, 02:59 AM
Hello,

NeoSD software is a living software, we are adding more features right now that will be issued by firmware updates on the following weeks
We are working on a way to allow backup ram to be loaded and saved manually among other things.

As you know, what you propose (at least a part) is not possible without aid from the bios.

Thanks


Yes I know I can help my situation by replacing the battery. But given how the backupRAM works even if I did that it would still be prone to corrupting/loosing the data with the NeoSD simply given the way the backupRAM is designed for the NeoGeo and how the NeoSD loads and stores the data to the sdcard.

NeoGeo backupRAM is not a SNK system for storing data months on end without daily power and it was never designed as such. If there were no multislot MVS systems made by SNK there would never be a backupRAM system on the NeoGeo, they would have used EEPROM (like CPS2). The NeoGeo system BackupRAM primary purpose is to simply store game data between game swapping on multislots, hold that data overnight and also bookeeping information. It was never designed to be used as a method to save highscores in a way users want today (between long periods on no use).

The NeoGeo does not have a battery that simply lasts 5 years. It is rechargeable and if the user does not play their neogeo very frequently the battery will cause the backupRAM to be lost or corrupt as it looses power. When that happens the NeoSD data for the current game will also be lost even if its on the sdcard given how your backupRAM loading and saving works presently.

For you to have a fullproof backupRAM storage replacement you must load into backupRAM before and on every repeat of a games attract mode sequence and save backupRAM to sdcard every time a game experiances game over. Simply doing it once at the point a game is flashed is not enough, data is going to get lost, even on systems with fully working rechargeable batteries depending on the owners usage.

neosd
11-25-2016, 03:03 AM
Hello,

We may have a bug there, let us look at it. If so, we will fix it and issue a firmware update as soon as possible.

Thanks for the report




2) Regarding possible bugs, it has come to my attention that in the NeoSD menu, when applying any filter (including favorites), if whichever game is selected, the game loaded will be another one totally different. (I guess this might be due to a mismatched order number between the whole game list and the new one which is displayed when applying such filters.)

Razoola
11-25-2016, 03:20 AM
Yes I understand that and this is what is good about the NeoSD (that is it so upgradeable), I just try to explain the backupRAM situation in a factual/neutral way.

You can improove the backupRAM saving and loading on the NeoSD withouth help from the bios (bios would make it easier though). I do it with NeoGeoLand for example with no bios help. The bigger problem you face first would be getting the loading and saving of data to and from backupRAM faster than it is presently, sometimes its to slow (if the info displayed in the UI is correct) and you can't really have those long delays during the times loading and saving would need to happen.

Doing the manual loading/saving would be good until a fullproof automated solution was sorted.

neosd
11-25-2016, 03:39 AM
Hello,

We will try to improve it. Good thing is that right now it works for everyone with a working MVS board, so only the ones with a faulty sram MVS board have an issue there.

Thanks


Yes I understand that and this is what is good about the NeoSD (that is it so upgradeable), I just try to explain the backupRAM situation in a factual/netrual way.

You can improove the backupRAM saving and loading on the NeoSD withouth help from the bios (bios would make it easier though). I do it with NeoGeoLand for example with no bios help. The bigger problem you face first would be getting the loading and saving of data to backupRAM faster than it is presently, sometimes its to slow (if the info displayed in the UI is correct) and you can't really have those long delays during the times loading and saving would need to happen.

Doing the manual loading/saving would be good until a fullproof automated solution was sorted.

Razoola
11-25-2016, 03:55 AM
Hello,

We will try to improve it. Good thing is that right now it works for everyone with a working MVS board, so only the ones with a faulty sram MVS board have an issue there.

Thanks

That is not totally true, this is a geeky issue though that you may not fully understand yourself given how the NeoGeo works.

Its not just people like myself with faulty batteries that will have a problem. Those who do not have faults will have problems also if the battery on their MVS is not fully recharged frequently or does not retain a full charge for days/weeks on end without use. You need to be prepared for this when people start reporting problems with saves, people with 100% working boards can be affected but just not 100% of the time like people with a totally dead battery (like myself).

Your going to have to advise these people about drained battery (until recharge) can cause the NeoSD backupRAM store to reset until the system is changed in the firmware.

dragonpt
11-25-2016, 04:26 AM
Thanks for the info Raz..
Didn't know that.

I guess i'll be on the same boat as you, since my main mvs system haves issues with backup ram as well ( just doesn't work) arggg

Oh well, i'll still be ordering one of this in the future...

Cheers

neosd
11-25-2016, 04:29 AM
Hello,

We have discussed this and we are going to improve it, we take all your suggestions in consideration, this is an honest answer not one given to not improve it, we have listened.

We want that people understand that the issue you are having, cause your board is faulty, is the same issue that you will have with an original game on the same board.
People with a working sram and a drained battery will have the same issue on NeoSD than with an original game.

So if you ask me, its not a NeoSD issue, its a faulty sram or a working sram with drained battery issue.

Thanks



That is not totally true, this is a geeky issue though that you may not fully understand yourself given how the NeoGeo works.

Its not just people like myself with faulty batteries that will have a problem. Those who do not have faults will have problems also if the battery on their MVS is not fully recharged frequently or does not retain a full charge for days/weeks on end without use. You need to be prepared for this when people start reporting problems with saves, people with 100% working boards can be affected but just not 100% of the time like people with a totally dead battery (like myself).

Your going to have to advise these people about drained battery (until recharge) can cause the NeoSD backupRAM store to reset until the system is changed in the firmware.

Razoola
11-25-2016, 04:33 AM
Yes its not a huge issue but the current implimentation is going to affect people at one time or another. Anyone with a battery issue like me (does not recharge), I would suggest to turn off the backupRAM save feature until it is updated in the future. This is defo not an issue that cannot be addressed in the future though and should not stop one buying a neoSD.

Razoola
11-25-2016, 06:13 AM
Hello,

We have discussed this and we are going to improve it, we take all your suggestions in consideration, this is an honest answer not one given to not improve it, we have listened.

We want that people understand that the issue you are having, cause your board is faulty, is the same issue that you will have with an original game on the same board.
People with a working sram and a drained battery will have the same issue on NeoSD than with an original game.

So if you ask me, its not a NeoSD issue, its a faulty sram or a working sram with drained battery issue.

Thanks

Thats right though I don't think you grasp just how common battery drainage is on the NeoGeo. For sure it is not a neoSD issue but there is a problem in the way the NeoSD currently relies on the MVS rechargeable battery for its backupRAM loading and saving to sdcard to work (without good data being overwritten with bad). I know your going to improove it, I did give suggestions for that after all :)

I think you are making my words a little bigger than I am trying to explain, I'm not being negative in any way and its great that the issues will be addressed going forward. I think its in part because you are not fullty understanding the MVS battery is a rechargeable battery (like a mobile phone). It is designed to discharge and recharge and it discharging is not a fault like I have with my MVS (where it does not recharge at all).

Granted that when this happens regardless of NeoSD or not, data will be lost but what people may not expect to happen is data for the currently loaded game on the NeoSD to also be lost from the SDcard (because it will be overwritten under the current system).

To reproduce the issue I'm trying to highlight is really very easy;

- Get a highscore in a game
- Swap to other game so neosd stores highscrore to sd card.
- Swap back to game with highscore so its loaded into backupRAM from sd card.

(at this point there is a good backram on sdcard and backupram and all is good in the world)

- Let attract mode start and go into testmode and reset the backupram.

(this is to simulate battery discharge or backupRAM corruption as would happen with days or weeks on non use. I think everyone who has used NeoGeo can see how this situation above is not rare with fully working batteries if the neogeo is not used for a while)

- Let system reboot into the games attract mode.

(at this point the save on sdcard is still good but data in backupRAM is reset)

Now this following part is where the NeoSD will go wrong with the current system of loading and saving.

- Flash a new game onto the NeoSD.

(At this point the good data that was on the sdcard is overwritten by the bad/reset data in backupRAM)

This is what I see people will not expect the MVS battery to be causing to data held on the NeoSD SDcard. This is why I suggested as an interiem solution (before a fully working automated system is complete) to have options in the UI to force load or force save backupRAM for the selected game.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-25-2016, 06:42 AM
Thanks neosd & Razoola por your detailed explanations.

In short (if I got it properly):
At this point, NeoSD backup RAM works in the same way than MVS board backup RAM, with the advantage that, instead of maximum 8 games, information can be stored for infinite ones. Should MVS board backup RAM be lost or re-formatted, NeoSD backup RAM information will be lost upon next game flashing.

Razoola
11-25-2016, 06:55 AM
You got it. Although with the NeoSD you'll only loose the SDcard data for the game flashed on the NeoSD and not any other games backupRAM saved on the SDcard. Like I said its not a big issue but can affect the last flashed game when one leaves the system off for days or weeks.

massimiliano
11-25-2016, 09:50 AM
Given how faulty the original batteries have become anyway, I thought it was common already to replace the battery with a CR2320+holder and remove the recharge circuit resistor/track. That gives a constant battery feed to the pcb when off for long periods.
But I agree with Raz, the nvram data should be written on gameover, rather than be overwritten at boot.

Also it would be nice having a "signed" highscore system so users could share records :)

Sceptre_JLRB
11-25-2016, 10:40 AM
Given how faulty the original batteries have become anyway, I thought it was common already to replace the battery with a CR2320+holder and remove the recharge circuit resistor/track. That gives a constant battery feed to the pcb when off for long periods.

Absolutely. Mine has this mod. :-)

Razoola
11-25-2016, 11:36 AM
as a matter of interest, how long does the CR2320 last before it needs replacing when doing this?

blastar
11-25-2016, 11:38 AM
everything works like ecpected! :buttrock:

2 small problems
- no '@' in menu/gamelist available
- BOOT:MENU + ARCADE MODE:YES + no SDCard inserted = neverending RESET

kuze
11-25-2016, 11:40 AM
as a matter of interest, how long does the CR2320 last before it needs replacing when doing this?

They seem to last a year or more before needing to be swapped out

Sceptre_JLRB
11-25-2016, 11:47 AM
as a matter of interest, how long does the CR2320 last before it needs replacing when doing this?

To tell the truth, dunno! xD
I'm using this system since two months ago with no battery problem so far. Based on the duration of this kind of batteries, I suppose it could last for years before backup data disappear.

Razoola
11-25-2016, 12:17 PM
- no '@' in menu/gamelist available

You were always gonna be the one that found this issue! :)

JMKurtz
11-25-2016, 12:18 PM
I don't have a battery in my dev system(s). I need the backup ram to be clear between testing sessions. While developing a game, menu options will be added/tweaked and wrong data getting loaded into settings is an issue.

I'd like to see an option to turn off auto backup ram saving.

Jeff

Razoola
11-25-2016, 12:26 PM
I don't have a battery in my dev system(s). I need the backup ram to be clear between testing sessions. While developing a game, menu options will be added/tweaked and wrong data getting loaded into settings is an issue.

I'd like to see an option to turn off auto backup ram saving.

Jeff

Jeff, there is an option to do that so your fine.

massimiliano
11-25-2016, 01:02 PM
as a matter of interest, how long does the CR2320 last before it needs replacing when doing this?

I do not have specs around, but I can tell mine served at least 2 years with the cab mostly off... it would be nice doing some calculation though.

JMKurtz
11-25-2016, 05:42 PM
Cool - thanks for letting me know. I won't get to play with my NeoSD until Christmas :/

Jeff


Jeff, there is an option to do that so your fine.

dragonpt
11-25-2016, 06:51 PM
as a matter of interest, how long does the CR2320 last before it needs replacing when doing this?

Had one in a 1slot for 2+ years without issues, battery still had the normal stock voltage...

poodude
11-25-2016, 10:49 PM
For those interested in SD card benchmark speeds, here you go:


Test Setup:
Lexar Professional workflow UR1 microsd card reader was used for all tests except when noted
CrystalDiskMark 5.0.2 x64 was used to produce all the test results and was set up with 2 passes and 100MB read/write size
All cards up to 32GB are formatted as FAT32 with 32KB allocation unit size

Test Results (Numbers are Sequential Read, Sequential Write, 4K Random Read, 4K Random Write in MB/s, speeds greater than 10MB/s were rounded to the whole numbers)

16 GB Alphabetically
Lexar 633x** -- 88, 25, 8.7, 1.2
Panasonic U3** -- 93, 42, 11, 0.7
Sandisk Extreme Pro -- 95, 80, 7.6, 2.6

32 GB Alphabetically
Delkin U3 -- 93, 59, 11, 0.6
Kingston 90R/80W -- 93, 58, 11, 0.6
Lexar 1000x -- 90, 57, 10, 1.4
Patriot EP -- 90, 35, 10, 0.6
PNY Turbo Performance -- 91, 55, 6.9, 0.9
Samsung Pro gray -- 92, 82, 10, 3.6
Sandisk Extreme Pro -- 94, 87, 9, 3.0
Sony up to 95MB/s -- 91, 51, 4.8, 0.9
Transcend Ultimate 633x -- 93, 85, 8.1, 1.4

Fastest Sequential Read:
All tested cards were able to accomplish > 90MB/s

Fastest Sequential Write:
Sandisk Extreme Pro, Samsung Pro+, Transcend Ultimate 633x

Fastest Random Read:
Kingston 90R/80W.

Fastest Random Write:
Samsung Pro+

Best overall:
Samsung Pro+ and Sandisk Extreme Pro

manic23
11-26-2016, 04:51 AM
Cool - thanks for letting me know. I won't get to play with my NeoSD until Christmas :/

Jeff

Ha, me too Jeff, I feel your pain

nio
11-26-2016, 06:06 AM
Is it possible to enter the chat without flash? i need help with that passwort thingy ...

Rot
11-26-2016, 06:24 AM
Is it possible to enter the chat without flash? i need help with that passwort thingy ...

I will give you a ONE time... n00b PM permission thingy...

xROTx

PS. Unless of course you have a Death Wish...

EDIT: For all those not wanting to come into chat... or can't come into chat... I will say... you may PM me... ONCE!

NeoHomeBrew
11-26-2016, 06:40 AM
NeoSD cart has been arrived and works great even with my homebrewed code :buttrock:
Is there a possibility to add a custom screen shot for the NeoSD menu?

Razoola
11-26-2016, 07:02 AM
lets see some homedrew stuff running on the NeoSD.. please post some photos or video jojo23

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 08:03 AM
Not sure if its a Vista thing or what, I get this error from the command line:-
C:\NeoBuilder>neobuilder pnyaa.zip
NeoBuilder v1.05

Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileNotFoundEx
embly 'MamePostProcessing.dll' or one of its
could not be found.
at NeoBuilder.Program.CheckRuntimeInstalle
at NeoBuilder.Program.Main(String[] args)

Despite .NET 4.5.5 installed, and VC++ 2015 Update 3 Redistributable installed too.

The UI app says the VC++ 2015 Update 3 Redistributable needs installing. Not sure where I go from here, I need to find a Windows 7 or Windows 10 machine I think.

neosd
11-26-2016, 08:18 AM
Hello,

You need the Redistributable, 32bits version.

Thanks


Not sure if its a Vista thing or what, I get this error from the command line:-
C:\NeoBuilder>neobuilder pnyaa.zip
NeoBuilder v1.05

Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileNotFoundEx
embly 'MamePostProcessing.dll' or one of its
could not be found.
at NeoBuilder.Program.CheckRuntimeInstalle
at NeoBuilder.Program.Main(String[] args)

Despite .NET 4.5.5 installed, and VC++ 2015 Update 3 Redistributable installed too.

The UI app says the VC++ 2015 Update 3 Redistributable needs installing. Not sure where I go from here, I need to find a Windows 7 or Windows 10 machine I think.

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 08:59 AM
The redistibutable (32 bits) is on there - its a 32bit OS. I've given up trying on Vista and moved onto a Windows 7 machine. On Win 7 I am using the command prompt to try and convert 1 game and I've tried a few different sets, all give filename errors (because in most of the sets I have the files are labelled ID-c1.bin rather than ID-c1.c1. I get past that error by unzipping and renaming all the ROMs to match what the tool is expecting, but then hit CRC errors. Can I skip that CRC error at all, because then it should work OK.

Rot
11-26-2016, 09:05 AM
The redistibutable (32 bits) is on there - its a 32bit OS. I've given up trying on Vista and moved onto a Windows 7 machine. On Win 7 I am using the command prompt to try and convert 1 game and I've tried a few different sets, all give filename errors (because in most of the sets I have the files are labelled ID-c1.bin rather than ID-c1.c1. I get past that error by unzipping and renaming all the ROMs to match what the tool is expecting, but then hit CRC errors. Can I skip that CRC error at all, because then it should work OK.

Why can't you just do what everyone else has done Gadget pal... and download the stuffs from post 44 of this thread...

I understand that the tool is needed if you want to convert the stuff you find lying around the internet... and I UNDERSTAND why neosd has done it this way...

BUT I have different concerns... and this is why I was willing to do the things I have done...

xROTx

PS. I ALSO understand that when writing a review... you will need to look at all aspects of the device... from conversion tool to actual gameplay...

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 09:17 AM
Update: I've got it working with a different 'set' OK - but it would be really really nice if it didn't error on a CRC difference - there's no reason to do that imo, perhaps provide it as a warning but allow creation anyway.

PS: I am not sure what you mean by the stuffs from page 44? I've downloaded the tools from their page and followed their precise instructions!

Incidentally, I had some graphical noise or something after flashing and first boot of the game, but after pulling the cart out and putting it back in that seems to have cleared up, so I am guessing it was just a bad connection.

So far I am really impressed with the hardware, not so much the tools lol, but I accept its early days =D

Rot
11-26-2016, 09:21 AM
Update: I've got it working with a different 'set' OK - but it would be really really nice if it didn't error on a CRC difference - there's no reason to do that imo, perhaps provide it as a warning but allow creation anyway.

PS: I am not sure what you mean by the stuffs from page 44? I've downloaded the tools from their page and followed their precise instructions!

Incidentally, I had some graphical noise or something after flashing and first boot of the game, but after pulling the cart out and putting it back in that seems to have cleared up, so I am guessing it was just a bad connection.

So far I am really impressed with the hardware, not so much the tools lol, but I accept its early days =D

Look at post 44 pal... on page 2... click linkie...

xROTx

PS. Then come talk to me...

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 09:47 AM
Thanks Rot - yes I was being dumb for not seeing that link! Doh! That will certainly be easier than messing around with the tool for now.

I did spot what might be a bug though - I flashed Pochi & Nyaa and I've got those graphical noise lines I mentioned, they come back if I go into the Neo SD menu then chose to start the loaded game. If I power off an on they then disappear, so it would appear to be something to do with having gone into the menu before loading the game from a cold start.

EDIT: Confirmed, I can re-create that graphical glitch by doing what I described - flash N&P, start the game - little lines of pixels appear over sprites. Power system off and have it auto boot the game and the intefering pixels are gone.

Rot
11-26-2016, 09:51 AM
Thanks Rot - yes I was being dumb for not seeing that link! Doh! That will certainly be easier than messing around with the tool for now.

I did spot what might be a bug though - I flashed Pochi & Nyaa and I've those graphical noise lines I mentioned, they come back if I go into the Neo SD menu then chose to start the loaded game. If I power off an on they then disappear, so it would appear to be something to do with having gone into the menu before loading the game from a cold start.

I would suggest waiting for the stuff to come down... and THEN talk about bugs...

The linkie is providing a fully validated set... SO... unless you know for sure that you have the perfect poch and nyaa... and you're SURE your tool is working on your setup...

Then i'd wait before declaring bugs...

xROTx

Razoola
11-26-2016, 10:01 AM
If your getting crc32 errors then its clear the sets your trying to convert are bad in one form or another. This is why its important it does not create .neos with bad data. This only applies to MAME sets of course if you still want to create sets you can use the generic option.

Mikekim
11-26-2016, 10:44 AM
Thanks Rot - yes I was being dumb for not seeing that link! Doh! That will certainly be easier than messing around with the tool for now.

I did spot what might be a bug though - I flashed Pochi & Nyaa and I've got those graphical noise lines I mentioned, they come back if I go into the Neo SD menu then chose to start the loaded game. If I power off an on they then disappear, so it would appear to be something to do with having gone into the menu before loading the game from a cold start.

EDIT: Confirmed, I can re-create that graphical glitch by doing what I described - flash N&P, start the game - little lines of pixels appear over sprites. Power system off and have it auto boot the game and the intefering pixels are gone.

just tried Pochi and Nyaa on mine and it works without any issues - might be a duff dump of the rom or could be some other underlying issue if the corruption disappears after a reboot

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 11:12 AM
I am not sure if its all coincidence with the cart not making a clean connection or not. I've captured some footage which I might upload later but after taking the cart out and cleaning it up it seems to have stopped happening. Previously I could on command get the lines to appear, just by going into the menu before loading the game. If I booted straight into the game the lines never appeared. I think its mostly likely the slot was dirty or something since I just re-tested a good dozen times and could get it to glitch again. Having one of those days today!!!

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 11:16 AM
If your getting crc32 errors then its clear the sets your trying to convert are bad in one form or another. This is why its important it does not create .neos with bad data. This only applies to MAME sets of course if you still want to create sets you can use the generic option.

'generic option'??? Maybe I am missing a tool or something, I've not seen anything giving a generic option - that said the front end didn't work in Vista and I never tried it on Win 7 yet, is it another tool or an option for the command line or UI? I've got the neobuilder.exe which is what I was using to get P&N working - is there a switch or something for it?

Razoola
11-26-2016, 11:21 AM
Using the neobuilder via the command line you can build .neo files for games not in MAME. This is where the crc32 will be ignored. It should be explained in the readme.

neosd
11-26-2016, 11:44 AM
GadgetUK

Could you tell us wich MVS model are you using ? , so we can try to replicate the issue you are having.
Thats weird cause our testers played every single game a lot of time and never reported an issue on this game.

Thanks

greatfunky
11-26-2016, 11:56 AM
I was at first thinking about bad contact but now i read GadgetUK , i can confirm :
on a mv1fzs i have some little flickering horizontal after game loaded , then turn off /on and the game run fine .

Razoola
11-26-2016, 12:00 PM
greatfunky, Try reseating the neosd into the socket and make sure your mvs contacts are clean. That looks to have helped GadgetUK.

greatfunky
11-26-2016, 12:07 PM
I tried , but i can't tell for sure if its a bad contact or another issue because powering off/on resolve the problem without touching something else.

Razoola
11-26-2016, 12:11 PM
If your issue is the same as what gadgetUk experianced then you can simply enter the UI and select launch current game and it should happen again.

greatfunky
11-26-2016, 12:24 PM
Just tested , and YES clearly confirmed : returning under UI then launching the current game make graphical noise.

Razoola
11-26-2016, 12:31 PM
So now remove the NeoSD from the socket and make sure the MVS socket is clean, then reseat the NeoSD and see if the issue goes. Maybe its a case of the two NeoSD pcbs not being together properly also so try opening and putting them back together.

greatfunky
11-26-2016, 12:50 PM
OK tested now on a MV4F slot and work perfectly so the issue is with mv1fz (bad conctact or compatibility model !? ) ,
i also have a second mv1fz but very dusty , i'll clean tomorrow the both slots with air compressor and report the result .

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 01:00 PM
Good to know I am not going insane lol! I can live with it as is - If I cold boot theres no chance of the problem occuring it seems. Just about to test with more games in a few minutes!

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 01:01 PM
GadgetUK

Could you tell us wich MVS model are you using ? , so we can try to replicate the issue you are having.
Thats weird cause our testers played every single game a lot of time and never reported an issue on this game.

Thanks

MV1FZ! After I cleaned the slot and PCB edges earlier I couldnt get it to repeat, so it might just have been a bad connection. I will know more in around 10 minutes, I've only tested with 1 game so far - the rest are being copied onto the SD card at the moment. Great product though =D

Rot
11-26-2016, 01:48 PM
I've only tested with 1 game so far - the rest are being copied onto the SD card at the moment.

I am gonna need feedback on that gadget... come chat to me when you can please....

xROTx

GadgetUK
11-26-2016, 02:27 PM
Will pop onto chat in a minute! The problem (and it really is a minor problem) with the flickering short lines over sprites when running 'some' games after the menu loads is not always evident, it seems to happen on some games more than others, but for most games it never appears at all. I will video it tomorrow as part of my review, but it's nothing worth losing sleep over and seemingly at this stage only occurs on the MV1FZ and has a fix (just power off and on and chances are the lines are gone). The way it only appears when following the menu makes me think that perhaps its related something there, perhaps an MCU not put into sleep mode or running at a faster clock speed than it would when running from a cold boot or something like that? But to be clear - this is really really minor, it's not any reason for anyone to be concerned or put off buying one of these amazing carts! Cannot wait for the shell to arrive now =D

Also just wanted to say a special thanks to Rot, Raz and a few other people in chat today for helping me when I was having cat problems and neo sd problems all at once :P

Sceptre_JLRB
11-27-2016, 01:21 AM
LOL
Just realized the mystery behind post #44... ^_^U

Razoola
11-27-2016, 03:03 AM
Will pop onto chat in a minute! The problem (and it really is a minor problem) with the flickering short lines over sprites when running 'some' games after the menu loads is not always evident, it seems to happen on some games more than others, but for most games it never appears at all. I will video it tomorrow as part of my review, but it's nothing worth losing sleep over and seemingly at this stage only occurs on the MV1FZ and has a fix (just power off and on and chances are the lines are gone).

Are you saying here that sometimes even after a cold boot the issue can be present? Or as a temp fix cold booting once after the UI is envolked will fix the issue 100% of the time (IE, not having to cold boot a couple of times in some cases)? This will be quite important for the makers to know when tracking down possible causes.

Nostromo
11-27-2016, 03:50 AM
Has anyone else with an MV1FZ reported the issue yet?

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 05:38 AM
I finally cleaned properly my both slots , the glitch issue is still there , i did a short video.

Take a look at the red columns on the top of the screen .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GORDuwfVdG8&feature=youtu.be

PS : sorry for the confusion : i'm talking about slot , i would mean MotherBoard .

Razoola
11-27-2016, 06:02 AM
Ohh wow, I'm confused by your wording because a MV-1FZ does not have a 2nd slot? Did you mean a different MVS system? But if I understand you right, you can see the glitching sometimes even after power off and on? I can defo confirm in all of my testing I did not see anything like this at any time but i have a MV-1FS

neosd
11-27-2016, 06:05 AM
Hello,

Thanks for the video, from what we read, this issue is only present on MV1FZ board, is that correct ? does it happens with all games ? how you make it appear/dissapear ?

Also, does this issue appears when using MVS to AES converter on AES console ?

We are going to try to reproduce it next monday, so as much info as you can give us, this will be welcome, we think its something related with the menu from the info you have posted so far.

Thanks


I finally cleaned properly my both slots , the glitch issue is still there , i did a short video.

Take a look at the red columns on the top of the screen .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GORDuwfVdG8&feature=youtu.be

Sceptre_JLRB
11-27-2016, 06:07 AM
I finally cleaned properly my both slots , the glitch issue is still there , i did a short video.

Take a look at the red columns on the top of the screen .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GORDuwfVdG8&feature=youtu.be

Hey! I got that very same horizontal lines glitch in Bang Bang Busters on my MVS MV-1F. I got rid of it just by converting again a different .zip file from another source (I had to try several different ones, though).

I mean, maybe it's a romset problem...

Razoola
11-27-2016, 06:11 AM
@Sceptre_JLRB. No, its defo not a ROM corruption issue, are you sure you have a MV-1F and not MV-1FZ?

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 06:17 AM
I tested my neosd on 3 different MVS slot:

-MV4F : seems no graphical issue

-MV1FZ : random graphical glitch , like on video with different games

-MV1FZS : same as MV1FZ

According to video , glitching is sometimes even after power off/on , totally random....

No glitch with MVS converter , I would be interested to know if GadgetUK has the same kind of glitch.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-27-2016, 06:24 AM
@Sceptre_JLRB. No, its defo not a ROM corruption issue, are you sure you have a MV-1F and not MV-1FZ?

Yeah, absolutely, mine is MV-1F (as you can see in my pics in the other thread).
I got such glitch only in that game and it was permanent, hence I decided to use another zip romset. But maybe what we are dealing here right now is a completely different issue.

Razoola
11-27-2016, 06:27 AM
Yeah, absolutely, mine is MV-1F (as you can see in my pics in the other thread).
I got such glitch only in that game and it was permanent, hence I decided to use another zip romset. But maybe what we are dealing here right now is a completely different issue.

Yes you may be right, your going to have to make a video so we can see if the same or not.

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 06:32 AM
Yeah, absolutely, mine is MV-1F (as you can see in my pics in the other thread).
I got such glitch only in that game and it was permanent, hence I decided to use another zip romset. But maybe what we are dealing here right now is a completely different issue.
I think it's a different issue my romset crc was tested with romcenter before .neo conversion and tested after with neo validator.

I noticed also some hissing noise in the cabinet speakers (tested in 2 different arcade cabinet ) when flashing games but maybe not relevant .

neosd
11-27-2016, 06:43 AM
I think it's a different issue my romset crc was tested with romcenter before .neo conversion and tested after with neo validator.

I noticed also some hissing noise in the cabinet speakers (tested in 2 different arcade cabinet ) when flashing games but maybe not relevant .

Hello,

We are going to try to reproduce this issue tomorrow. We will submit a firmware update as soon as possible.
In the meanwhile we would like that everyone with any issue tell us MVS board model and if they are using validated roms, so we dont go hunting ghosts (not saying this is the case btw)

greatfunky, GadgetUK if you dont mind, we would like to give you a firmware update tomorrow so you can report us if the issue still persits.


Thanks

MattBlah
11-27-2016, 06:48 AM
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but there seems to be a problem with filtering by genre. I am filtering to shooters and loading Ninja Commando but it loads Art of Fighting 3 every time. AOF3 is the game in the position that I am selecting when on the main list. Loading Ninja Commando from the main list works perfectly.

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 06:48 AM
Hello,

We are going to try to reproduce this issue tomorrow. We will issue a firmware updste as soon as possible.
In the meanwhile we would like that everyone with any issue tell us mvs model and if they are using validated roms, so we dont go hunting ghosts (not saying this is the case btw)

Greatfunky if you dont mind, we would like to give you a firmware update tomorrow so you can help us adressing that issue

Thanks
OK no problem !
Hoping my neosd will be always working with mvs converters after the update :keke:

neosd
11-27-2016, 06:49 AM
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but there seems to be a problem with filtering by genre. I am filtering to shooters and loading Ninja Commando but it loads Art of Fighting 3 every time. AOF3 is the game in the position that I am selecting when on the main list. Loading Ninja Commando from the main list works perfectly.

Reported and already fixed, it will come on the next firmware update.

Thanks

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 06:50 AM
I've noticed a problem with KoF 2003 today - I will include it in the video later so you can see it. There's some sprite break up in the intro. I tested the same game on the 161 in 1 and it doesn't show any problems, so it would seem the MVS is not the cause. I couldn't get around the corruption problem with cold boots like I could with the noise problem earlier. So there's definitely some kind of timing issue present. Overall its a great cart though, and these kinds of glitches are bound to be expected in an early version etc. I am hoping either a future firmware update might fix it, or perhaps some minor modification to the board - perhaps to add a capacitor or something.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 06:53 AM
I think it's a different issue my romset crc was tested with romcenter before .neo conversion and tested after with neo validator.

I noticed also some hissing noise in the cabinet speakers (tested in 2 different arcade cabinet ) when flashing games but maybe not relevant .

Yes, I noticed that hissing too - its the MCU I think, I can hear when its programming. That also makes me think that it could just be a noise problem causing the graphical issues I've seen so far. Perhaps a couple of additional caps are required on one of the boards to filter that noise.

Razoola
11-27-2016, 07:02 AM
I've noticed a problem with KoF 2003 today - I will include it in the video later so you can see it. There's some sprite break up in the intro. I tested the same game on the 161 in 1 and it doesn't show any problems, so it would seem the MVS is not the cause.

You can't really compare games like that on a 161in1. I would more think it would still be related to the MV-1FZ but when I see what your talking about with kof2003 I'll check it here. I defo did not see any sprite issues though in the intro myself.

neosd
11-27-2016, 07:23 AM
Yes, I noticed that hissing too - its the MCU I think, I can hear when its programming. That also makes me think that it could just be a noise problem causing the graphical issues I've seen so far. Perhaps a couple of additional caps are required on one of the boards to filter that noise.

We think its a timming issue that affects MV1FZ board.
We will know more tomorrow once we try to reproduce it, this should be fixed by a firmware update.

Thanks for the feedback

Sceptre_JLRB
11-27-2016, 08:14 AM
@neosd

Just a really minor issue here:

Zintrick. The version recognized by NeoBuilder (zintrckb.zip) displays corrupted UniBIOS 3.2 menu graphics. The version not recognized by NeoBuilder (zintrkcd.zip, requires the previous romset to work, converted to .neo using NeoBuilder.exe command line) shows them correctly. Not sure which one should be here the ROM parent version... Anyway, I think zintrkcd.zip is currently a non-MAME romset.

neosd
11-27-2016, 08:35 AM
Hello,

Only on the unibios menu ? not on the game itself ?

Thanks


@neosd

Just a really minor issue here:

Zintrick. The version recognized by NeoBuilder (zintrckb.zip) displays corrupted UniBIOS 3.2 menu graphics. The version not recognized by NeoBuilder (zintrkcd.zip, requires the previous romset to work, converted to .neo using NeoBuilder.exe command line) shows them correctly. Not sure which one should be here the ROM parent version... Anyway, I think zintrkcd.zip is currently a non-MAME romset.

Nostromo
11-27-2016, 08:38 AM
Anyone with an MV1C tested NeoSD yet? I would like to know if there are incompatibility problems with version too!

Thanks.

Grendell
11-27-2016, 08:41 AM
Hm , dont know much about anything be it software or hardware side of neo geo stuff but maybe just maybe the hardware is really old and sometimes even if you use a original game for example ssv and Original hardware you got glitches .... I only can imagine how bad it will be to fix problems who are sometimes there even without anything outside of Neo stuff

Mikekim
11-27-2016, 09:02 AM
Anyone with an MV1C tested NeoSD yet? I would like to know if there are incompatibility problems with version too!

Thanks.

No issues on my analogue cmvs..
I get the noise when flashing... Almost reminds me of listening to games loading back in the day..

Razoola
11-27-2016, 09:04 AM
@neosd

Just a really minor issue here:

Zintrick. The version recognized by NeoBuilder (zintrckb.zip) displays corrupted UniBIOS 3.2 menu graphics. The version not recognized by NeoBuilder (zintrkcd.zip, requires the previous romset to work, converted to .neo using NeoBuilder.exe command line) shows them correctly. Not sure which one should be here the ROM parent version... Anyway, I think zintrkcd.zip is currently a non-MAME romset.

That is not a neosd issue but an issue due to the fake zintrick prototype hack used in MAME.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 09:36 AM
I finally cleaned properly my both slots , the glitch issue is still there , i did a short video.

Take a look at the red columns on the top of the screen .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GORDuwfVdG8&feature=youtu.be

PS : sorry for the confusion : i'm talking about slot , i would mean MotherBoard .

Yes, exact same glitching! Did you try KoF2003 yet - are you getting sprites broken up badly on the intro - part where the woman in red scrolls from right to left close up.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-27-2016, 09:59 AM
Hello,

Only on the unibios menu ? not on the game itself ?

Thanks

Yes, only the UniBIOS menu. The game displays properly.
Maybe, as Razoola says, it's caused by the MAME prototype hack (zintrckb.zip), even yet the non-MAME version (zintrkcd.zip) doesn't have any issues.

Razoola
11-27-2016, 10:08 AM
yes, zintrkcd does not have the issue because I made that conversion... Proper like.

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 10:45 AM
Yes, exact same glitching! Did you try KoF2003 yet - are you getting sprites broken up badly on the intro - part where the woman in red scrolls from right to left close up.
Yes , for me glitching are throughout the intro , starting around the turning letter .

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 10:47 AM
I tested a load of games and couldn't get any issues similar to the KoF2003 issue I mentioned earlier. The flickering pixels occurs on a lot of different games though, and is NOT always related to booting from menu. I found turning the system on and off a few times can resolve that flickering pixels issue, which leads me to believe its a clock sync problem, perhaps a PLL not syncing properly to the system clock or something. For example, had the lines really really bad on real bout, switched off and on, lines a little better, swiched off and on, lines bad again, off and on, no lines at all. I tried that with KoF2003 and it made little difference, the sprite corruptions on the red lady on intro range from really bad to quite bad - ie. not possible to get those sprites to display properly at all no matter how you boot, how many times you power cycle etc. I also tried the AES KoF2003 ROM to rule out a ROM corruption and it was exactly the same.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 10:48 AM
Yes , for me glitching are throughout the intro , starting around the turning letter .

Do the wrong sprites flicker up on the red lady though when it shows a close up of her?

Sceptre_JLRB
11-27-2016, 10:51 AM
yes, zintrkcd does not have the issue because I made that conversion... Proper like.

Upsss, haven't noticed, sorry! :lolz:

Razoola's conversions r00l!

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 11:04 AM
Do the wrong sprites flicker up on the red lady though when it shows a close up of her?

I didn't notice specially sprites flickering around the red lady but clearly during all the intro .
I think there's also a difference depending of the motherboard , i noticed different glitch between my mv1fz and mv1fzs boards , less or more glitch but glitch anyway....
You can see the difference in my video.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 11:10 AM
This is the glitch I get (private not a public link) - just so you can see what I mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiN8lw9S44 It will get deleted later probably.

greatfunky
11-27-2016, 11:16 AM
No, not like that ,i haven't seen a flickering like this one before , for me it's always the same kind of little horizontal glitch as in my video.

neosd
11-27-2016, 11:49 AM
This is the glitch I get (private not a public link) - just so you can see what I mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaiN8lw9S44 It will get deleted later probably.

Hello,

This video is a different issue, it looks tiles are bad
Can you check the .neo rom you are using with the validator ? It may be wrong
If the rom passes the check, can you flash the game again ?
Thanks

Razoola
11-27-2016, 12:03 PM
Hello,

This video is a different issue, it looks tiles are bad
Can you check the .neo rom you are using with the validator ? It may be wrong
If the rom passes the check, can you flash the game again ?
Thanks

I don't think that is the case because the tiles are being drawn but in the wrong place. You can't rule out a vram issue or a P ROM issue (corrupt or banks) but its not bad Sprite tiles I feel.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 12:26 PM
I agree its definitely not the ROM. I've validated it OK, and I also tested the AES rom (completely different ROM with different files) and the same problem happens in the same spot on screen. What does change between power cycles is the exact corruption in those positions on screen, it can vary a little each time you boot it, but always in that part of the intro with the red lady.

neosd
11-27-2016, 12:31 PM
I agree its definitely not the ROM. I've validated it OK, and I also tested the AES rom (completely different ROM with different files) and the same problem happens in the same spot on screen. What does change between power cycles is the exact corruption in those positions on screen, it can vary a little each time you boot it, but always in that part of the intro with the red lady.

Thanks,

We are going to investigate it tomorrow aswel.
Can anyone with an MV1FZ confirm this is happening there aswel ?

Also, GadgetUK have you got another MVS to check if this is happening into another board ?

Thanks

Razoola
11-27-2016, 12:36 PM
I agree its definitely not the ROM. I've validated it OK, and I also tested the AES rom (completely different ROM with different files) and the same problem happens in the same spot on screen. What does change between power cycles is the exact corruption in those positions on screen, it can vary a little each time you boot it, but always in that part of the intro with the red lady.

You could quickly try the unibios crc32 check with kof2003 a few times and confirm the P ROM banks pass every time. Given how games pull up gfx from the banks it might be an outside chance of a problem there.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 01:33 PM
You could quickly try the unibios crc32 check with kof2003 a few times and confirm the P ROM banks pass every time. Given how games pull up gfx from the banks it might be an outside chance of a problem there.

I think its possibly a cross talk problem. Thanks for that suggestion Raz, ROM Bank 2 and 4 give occasional NG results. For example, on first CRC check, all banks good except for bank 2. I then repeat the test and now bank 2 is OK and bank 4 is NG. Repeating this several times it seems to always show either bank 2, bank 4, or both as NG. Every other game I've tested work fine and all games show good CRCs. It does seem like a cross talk / noise issue. If Neo SD team can identify the problem I can easily add a cap or resistor if it is a cross talk issue or something. I also suspect if I put some grounded copper tape in the right place it might fix the problem too, but I am not touching the board until we've tried some firmware updates. Pretty cheesed off tbh =/

See how Neo SD team get on tomorrow.

neosd
11-27-2016, 01:35 PM
You could quickly try the unibios crc32 check with kof2003 a few times and confirm the P ROM banks pass every time. Given how games pull up gfx from the banks it might be an outside chance of a problem there.

Hello

We have just tried kof2003 into two different MV1FZ boards, and we cant get the glitches on any of those.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m1JWHxSvO8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMWyYDgyndU


Could you check the voltage on the jamma connector to see if you have 5v there and not less ?

Also, could you try to pass unibios crc checksum on kof2003 ?

Thanks

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 01:36 PM
4.97v! Good clean PSU! See my comments just posted - CRC changes each time you run the CRC check (Not Good reported on bank 2 or bank 4, or both - they change every time) - ONLY on KoF2003!

EDIT: Are you using PLL somewhere because it crossed my mind that the way the behaviour changes with the lines (as shown in greatjunky's video), and the way I can stop those lines by keep switching on and off until they disappear makes me think a clock is not syncronised precisely.

It's absolutely not the MVS because I've got a few different boots of KoF2003 and they work fine, and if I try the boot version on the Neo SD the same exact graphical corruption appears. So the fact that the same bootleg version on a boot cart works fine, vs that exact same bootleg ROM running on the Neo SD not working shows its not my MVS.

Razoola
11-27-2016, 01:50 PM
I feel the failing banks is the cause of the hair glitch issue you have in kof2003. The information you gave on that will help neosd. You could try the crc32 check with svc and mslug5 also just to see if you get the same issue there with banks failing sometimes.

neosd
11-27-2016, 01:51 PM
4.97v! Good clean PSU! See my comments just posted - CRC changes each time you run it - ONLY on KoF2003!

Hello,

We are going to look at it tomorrow, but we wanted to reproduce the intro issue here right now.

We will contact you tomorrow as soon as we know more about the issue.

Thanks for the info

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 01:55 PM
I feel the failing banks is the cause of the hair glitch issue you have in kof2003. The information you gave on that will help neosd. You could try the crc32 check with svc and mslug5 also just to see if you get the same issue there with banks failing sometimes.
I will do that now! Thanks, I was going to ask you which games made similar use of the program banks.

Razoola
11-27-2016, 02:05 PM
Of course the other issue you have is something different, maybe a slight voltage increase will help there, who whows. A little worrying neosd does not yet reproduce the glitching in the other video on their mv-1fz. Will be much easier if they can reproduce it.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 02:09 PM
Of course the other issue you have is something different, maybe a slight voltage increase will help there, who whows. A little worrying neosd does not yet reproduce the glitching in the other video on their mv-1fz. Will be much easier if they can reproduce it.

Yes, that worries me too! I didn't see the 'lines' issue on their video either - yet two people now have that problem. If it is a crosstalk / impedance problem the temperature and humidity is factor. I am testing this in a really cold area at the moment. The power is definitely not a problem, I've tried a few really good 5v supplies I have and there's no ripple and remains at a 5v or just above.

Just tested SVC and all checksums OK and the game is OK (except for the 1st issue reported of the short lines jittering over sprites).

Testing MS5 now.

Rot
11-27-2016, 02:12 PM
I LOVE nerd talk...

It reminds me that I have no idea what you're talking about... but the fact that I will read anything on the forums...:D

Have fun playing lads... hope its an easy fix...

xROTx

neosd
11-27-2016, 02:16 PM
Yes, that worries me too! I didn't see the 'lines' issue on their video either - yet two people now have that problem. If it is a crosstalk / impedance problem the temperature and humidity is factor. I am testing this in a really cold area at the moment. The power is definitely not a problem, I've tried a few really good 5v supplies I have and there's no ripple and remains at a 5v or just above.

Just tested SVC and all checksums OK and the game is OK (except for the 1st issue reported of the short lines jittering over sprites).

Testing MS5 now.

Hello,

I think i have myself similar temperature and humidity here as you have there.
The rest of the team are in different parts of Spain, so we will know more for sure tomorrow.

What puzzles me is that i have tried it in two different MV1FZ boards and it dosent happens here (both videos are from different boards)

We will know more tomorrow for sure.

We really apreciate the time you are spending on helping us to figure the issue.

Thanks

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 02:17 PM
Checked MS5 - CRC problems with that reported too. Bank 0 checksum changes each time you run the CRC test. My original and boot MS5's both work fine, so definitely something related to the prog bus.

In summary there are two issues:-

1) Short lines of pixels flickering over sprites - often powering off and on a few times can make this go away.

2) Graphical issues that I see in KoF2003 intro, and as we've seen this is detected as different (changing) checksum failures in bank 2 and bank 4 on KoF2003. SVC was OK in all respects, and MS5 reported different checksums each time on bank 0, yet more original and boot versions of both KoF2003 and MS5 work fine and always report their correct checksums.

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 02:20 PM
Hello,

I think i have myself similar temperature and humidity here as you have there.
The rest of the team are in different parts of Spain, so we will know more for sure tomorrow.

What puzzles me is that i have tried it in two different MV1FZ boards and it dosent happens here (both videos are from different boards)

We will know more tomorrow for sure.

We really apreciate the time you are spending on helping us to figure the issue.

Thanks

Thanks, and no problem! I just don't want you to think this is just my system - the lines issue has been reported by another person earlier (so I am pleased theres at least two of us with that problem), but this CRC / corrupt sprites thing is my main concern now as it seems hard for others to recreate. I guess as more people receive them theres more chance of others reporting the same problem.

I also think its not a hardware fault because other games that utilise similar (or more) flash ROM aren't reporting bad CRCs, nor are they giving any corruptions (except for that line flicking thing).

neosd
11-27-2016, 02:29 PM
Thanks, and no problem! I just don't want you to think this is just my system - the lines issue has been reported by another person earlier (so I am pleased theres at least two of us with that problem), but this CRC / corrupt sprites thing is my main concern now as it seems hard for others to recreate. I guess as more people receive them theres more chance of others reporting the same problem.

I also think its not a hardware fault because other games that utilise similar (or more) flash ROM aren't reporting bad CRCs, nor are they giving any corruptions (except for that line flicking thing).

Hello,

The lines issue is not your issue for sure, cause as i told you by pm, we had those during development and it was a timming issue. We thought this was fixed cause we stopped to see it after we changed some things, but it seems its not ...

The seccond issue is what puzzles me, cause i cant get it reproduced.
Not saying its your fault, but i had a faulty MV1FZ board that was reseting itself sometimes and we spent a lot of hours thinking it was an issue and it was the board itself. Those boards are pretty old and some may have faults. Thats why i asked so many things ...

Again, i know you are not the usual user and you know what you are talking about, thats good cause it will help us to locate and fix the issue.
We have to reproduce the issue to see whats happening, but with the info you and Raz have posted, we know where to look at it tomorrow.
We will prepare you a firmware changing timmings so we can know if that improves it or not ...

Thanks

Razoola
11-27-2016, 02:31 PM
Thanks, and no problem! I just don't want you to think this is just my system - the lines issue has been reported by another person earlier (so I am pleased theres at least two of us with that problem), but this CRC / corrupt sprites thing is my main concern now as it seems hard for others to recreate. I guess as more people receive them theres more chance of others reporting the same problem.

I also think its not a hardware fault because other games that utilise similar (or more) flash ROM aren't reporting bad CRCs, nor are they giving any corruptions (except for that line flicking thing).

If you go into the UI and then the options screen it may be helpfull if you report the version numbers reported for all areas (don't give your neoSD serial publically though).

X68
11-27-2016, 02:43 PM
Thanks,

We are going to investigate it tomorrow aswel.
Can anyone with an MV1FZ confirm this is happening there aswel ?

Also, GadgetUK have you got another MVS to check if this is happening into another board ?

Thanks

Works OK for me no glitching on MV-1FZ, here's the vid ;)
https://youtu.be/8jWz2_QXSOw

EDIT: using the roms from // [THE FUCK IS THIS?]

Rot
11-27-2016, 02:45 PM
You know what this reminds me of lads?

...An episode of Poirot... where there's lots of Red Herrings and the murderer is the one you least expect...

xROTx

GadgetUK
11-27-2016, 02:57 PM
You know what this reminds me of lads?

...An episode of Poirot... where there's lots of Red Herrings and the murderer is the one you least expect...

xROTx


LMFAO! Tell you what, there will be murder if I can't get this working lol - just kidding of course!

neosd
11-27-2016, 03:18 PM
Works OK for me no glitching on MV-1FZ, here's the vid ;)

https://youtu.be/8jWz2_QXSOw

EDIT: using the roms from // [THE FUCK IS THIS?]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jWz2_QXSOw


Thanks for the video, glad i am not the only one with the game working fine

Rot
11-27-2016, 03:22 PM
Thanks for the video, glad i am not the only one with the game working fine

Neosd... You should just relax for a bit pal...

Come around to my house... and we can watch some episodes of Poirot...

I can guarantee you the little Belgium detective will solve all the crimes and life will be good...

xROTx

PS. I have booze and snacks... life is good:p

neosd
11-27-2016, 03:24 PM
Neosd... You should just relax for a bit pal...

Come around to my house... and we can watch some episodes of Poirot...

I can guarantee you the little Belgium detective will solve all the crimes and life will be good...

xROTx

PS. I have booze and snacks... life is good:p

I want my Sunday back. Share with me your time travel machine and will spend it watching those episodes at your house.
But please, promise me not touching allowed :)


Anyways, we will figure the issue tomorrow, or we will die trying :)

Thanks guys

Rot
11-27-2016, 03:46 PM
I want my Sunday back. Share with me your time travel machine and will spend it watching those episodes at your house.
But please, promise me not touching allowed :)


Anyways, we will figure the issue tomorrow, or we will die trying :)

Thanks guys

LOOK man.. you're TRYING Far too hard...

I do understand you have a product and you want everyone to be happy... but it sounds like there's people who have that MV-1FZ board and it is working GREAT....

And there are some with a few minor glitches... THIS leads to the conclusion that it is a setup problem NOT a device problem...

So relax Neosd man... The main test will be when the crazy US guys get a hold of your device...

Those fucks have all the hardware known to man...

xROTx

greatfunky
11-28-2016, 02:46 AM
Many things happened since my last connection : those who are absent, are always wrong:drool:.

So , about short lines of pixels flickering over sprites : a timing issue clearly identified by neosd , apparently not related to a board model because some MV1-FZ are working fine and at least one MV-1F has it .

Firmware update soon:).

Mikekim
11-28-2016, 03:00 AM
I have an MV1-FZ in storage in my loft at home.. (along with 2x 6F's 2x 1B's and a 4F) ill see if i can dig it out tonight, to test on a supergun setup.

neosd
11-28-2016, 03:13 AM
Hello,

We think this issue is caused by some MV-1F not having an perfect steady internal clock, this may be caused by the MVS internal clock loosing precision with the past of the years.

We are working on a solution right now, we have both greatfunky and GadgetUK serial numbers so we will provide them a firmware update today to see if that fixes the issue, if so we will add this solution for everyone else on the downloads page.

Thanks


Many things happened since my last connection : those who are absent, are always wrong:drool:.

So , about short lines of pixels flickering over sprites : a timing issue clearly identified by neosd , apparently not related to a board model because some MV1-FZ are working fine and at least one MV-1F has it .

Firmware update soon:).

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 04:02 AM
About the MV1fz issues:

Since i had so many of this boards, could this perhaps be due to the already known .. " sync issue" this boards suffers?

Its the only board with that issue.

The fact that neosd can't reproduce GadgetUK issue is normal... It depends on the TV/LCD model actually

I have 5 TVs at home, and in 2 i have sync issues. ( with those same Glitchs... )
This has been discussed a lot in the past, the solution is adding a 1k pot on the sync line.

It doesn't happen all the time, and depends on the TV/LCD

Maybe unrelated... Just saying...
Cheers

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 05:28 AM
They are talking about different clock syncs - I don't believe it's related to vsync or hsync, probably one of the clocks used by the CPU, or one divided by one of the neo chips. For one thing the video syncs don't appear on the cart socket (I think?).

Maybe a Schmitt trigger will help somewhere!

EDIT: I did also wonder about board revision differences - they aren't always exactly the same between identical models. I've seen some MVS with 'optional' capacitor spots populated, where others never had a cap there from factory. This could have been a cost cutting excercise or something as they realised some components were not required.

I've got another MV1FZ which I will test over lunch.

EDIT: I think they are onto the right tracks with a clock timing issue. I also noticed when navigating through the list of games that when it tries to display the preview image of the game selected, the graphics can glitch out a little bit sometimes. Powering off an on often results in being able to get rid of that glitch. I think that glitch is related to the lines glitch which Neo SD team already said they are aware of, but I wonder if that's also causing the CRC and graphical issues I have with KoF2003 maybe. Heres hoping they are all related!

greatfunky
11-28-2016, 05:58 AM
Mines are MV1FZ and MV1FZS , they look similar but there must be a difference anyway , from what i see one has more glitch than the other...

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 06:11 AM
Yes, my understanding is the 1FZS (the S designates Spanish BIOS), but the boards should be the same, but they aren't always exactly the same. Inspection of the caps underneath can reveal that on some boards they aren't all there (and they haven't been removed, just never fitted in one or two places). At least that's the experience I've had with the 5 or 6 1FZ boards I've seen. Some also are missing the silk screen from the underside - perhaps another cost cutting thing.

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 06:12 AM
They are mostly the same.

Mv1fz(s) haves a Spanish bios or something
Hardware is the same as normal mv1fz

Later mv1fz also haves "some missing caps" just like the mv1fzs

Earlier mv1fz lacks the decriptions on the components (underside)

I've seen 3 mv1fz revisions so far ( with those small diffs)

Cheers

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 06:20 AM
They are mostly the same.

Mv1fz(s) haves a Spanish bios or something
Hardware is the same as normal mv1fz

Later mv1fz also haves "some missing caps" just like the mv1fzs

Earlier mv1fz lacks the decriptions on the components (underside)

I've seen 3 mv1fz revisions so far ( with those small diffs)

Cheers

That's a very good point actually and just reminded me - I refer to my board as an MV1FZ, but its actually an MV1FZS (It had a Spanish BIOS on there originally!) Don't know if this clarifies anything, maybe the problem is more related to the MV1FZS.

greatfunky
11-28-2016, 06:26 AM
I wasn't aware about the S Spanish bios , but for sure there could be some difference , just components origin and quality could make a difference .

Anyway, glitch problem should be fixed because if we are only 2 users reported now on the first batch , there will be more in the future.
But i'm not worried , neosd will fix it !:)

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 06:32 AM
@GadgetUK saw in one of your videos (i think it was a video from you), you have a board without the components names (underside).

Those are the early MV1FZ PCB revision.
Maybe the same thing on the MV1fzs, but never saw any

The bios could also been swaped by the Operator...

Cheers

neosd
11-28-2016, 07:31 AM
Hello,

We have sent by email a firmware uptade to greatfunky and GadgetUK.
We just have changed the way the sync works, cause we cant reproduce the issue here.
Right now this is a test, we need to know if this improves the issue.


Please, let us know the results guys.

Thanks

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 07:33 AM
Man you are a great community supporter.

Thumbs up.

Rot
11-28-2016, 07:53 AM
I am here to introduce the member: neodev (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/member.php?63414-neodev)

He is one of the neosd devices Tech support... He is here to start answering some questions about the neosd.... so be nice lads...:)

xROTx

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 08:01 AM
I am here to introduce the member: neodev (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/member.php?63414-neodev)

He is one of the neosd devices Tech support... He is here to start answering some questions about the neosd.... so be nice lads...:)

xROTx

Cool

Maybe giving all the neosd members the same "badge"?

Would be better.

Welcome neodev

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 08:07 AM
I just tested KOF 2003

On the two mv1fz both glitch on the intro, as well on the "Neo Geo "logo ( why haven't i noticied this earlier?)

I have had the multi 161-1 on the mv1fz for some time now...

On my 4slot all fine

@GadgetUk

Rot
11-28-2016, 08:08 AM
Cool

Maybe giving all the neosd members the same "badge"?

Would be better.

Welcome neodev

Thats an avatar... he can change it himself...

neosd
11-28-2016, 08:12 AM
Hello,

Do you mean that both original kof 2003 cart and kof2003 on the 161in1 do glitch on the two mv1fz you have ?

Thanks


I just tested KOF 2003

On the two mv1fz both glitch on the intro, as well on the "Neo Geo "logo ( why haven't i noticied this earlier?)

I have had the multi 161-1 on the mv1fz for some time now...

On my 4slot all fine

@GadgetUk

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 08:20 AM
Hello,

Do you mean that both original kof 2003 cart and kof2003 on the 161in1 do glitch on the two mv1fz you have ?

Thanks
Correct! Both boot and original versions of both games give proper checksums and no glitching.

neosd
11-28-2016, 08:23 AM
Correct! Both boot and original versions of both games give proper checksums and no glitching.

Hello,

Correct me if i am wrong, but kof2003 on 161in1 is a hacked version, so the checksums should be different than original kof2003.

I think dragonpt was saying that he is having those issues with the 161in1 and the original kof2003 cart aswel

Also, have you been able to try the firmware update we have sent you ?

Thanks

dragonpt
11-28-2016, 08:26 AM
Hello,

Correct me if i am wrong, but kof2003 on 161in1 is a hacked version, so the checksums should be different than original kof2003.

I think dragonpt was saying that he is having those issues with the 161in1 and the original kof2003 cart aswel

Also, have you been able to try the firmware update we have sent you ?

Thanks

The one on 161-1 is ok

But, the original cart game ( and yes its original i checked the boards) do glitch sometimes ONLY on the mv1fz ( i have two of these now)

Seems a board issue

Razoola
11-28-2016, 08:29 AM
There is like 2 different converstaions going on here.

neosd
11-28-2016, 08:33 AM
The one on 161-1 is ok

But, the original cart game ( and yes its original i checked the boards) do glitch sometimes ONLY on the mv1fz ( i have two of these now)

Seems a board issue

Hello,

It would be nice if someone else with the original Kof2003 can confirm if the game glitches on the mv1fz aswel.

Thanks for checking that

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 08:41 AM
Yes, the checksums are different to the original, but the boot checksums match the same values as the checksum provided when booting the bootleg version on the Neo SD, and they always show the same values each time. As you will see in the video I am uploading at the moment, the checksums change on banks 2 and bank 4 on KoF2003 - this is the clue to the problem and likely why the graphics are corrupting. On Metal Slug 5 the same CRC problem occurs with the P ROM on bank 0. The point I am trying to make here is the boot version on the Neo SD should work, because the exact same ROMs with same checksums work on a multicart or bootleg without issue.

I've updated the firmware - it seems to have fixed the 'lines' issue, but I need to do more testing, I've only tested KoF2003 so far with the new update. The video is uploading now, I will post a link in a minute.


EDIT - Here's the update video after firmware update. As I said, I need to test more games before I am sure if the lines issue has been resolved, but it looks that way. But the sprites / P ROM issue still exists:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT-8qIVMM7g&feature=youtu.be

EDIT - I do think there's a cross talk issue that perhaps relates to the MV1FZ when using this cart. Maybe one of the upper prog or cha address lines are picking up some crosstalk.

neodev
11-28-2016, 08:45 AM
Hello, GadgetUK, keep in mind this update is just to try to fix the "line glitches" graphics issues, the checksums issue is still being worked on :). We hope to have a new build this evening that solves it. Also this is very like to be causing the sprite glitching in the intro, as it affects entire tiles, and not lines, and it's caused by wrong data being read from the banked data (hence the wrong CRC).

Glad to hear that the "lines" glitch is not happening anymore so far :).

Razoola
11-28-2016, 08:50 AM
Hello,

It would be nice if someone else with the original Kof2003 can confirm if the game glitches on the mv1fz aswel.

Thanks for checking that

GagetUK has already said the crc banking issue happens in the other games I asked him to test so this is not just related to kof2003. I really don't think this is going to affect original kof2003 carts on the MV-1FZ because we would have known about it years ago (just like the issues with rotd on some MVS types).

The only way you can really rule a MVS system incompatability is if gadgetUK has an original kof2003 cart that he can check on his MV-1FZ. If that gives the same hair corruption or the same crc32 issues then you can say its a MVS related situation. Using any kof2003 bootleg to do this is a no go because that uses a totally different banking system. It has to be an original kof2003 cart and the original kof2003 version on the neoSD.

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 09:11 AM
Following Razs comment last night about SVC I thought I would test that a bit more throughly - there's a problem with that game too. The CRCs seem to report OK every time I've run the CRC check, but in game the game crashes after the demo and just as it tries to go back to the intro.

I will put the link to the SVC problem here in a minute when its uploaded.



Hello, GadgetUK, keep in mind this update is just to try to fix the "line glitches" graphics issues, the checksums issue is still being worked on :). We hope to have a new build this evening that solves it. Also this is very like to be causing the sprite glitching in the intro, as it affects entire tiles, and not lines, and it's caused by wrong data being read from the banked data (hence the wrong CRC).

Glad to hear that the "lines" glitch is not happening anymore so far :).

Thanks, I appreciate this isn't the easiest thing to resolve until you can recreate it yourselves.


EDIT: Here's the SVC problem:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJiO0M4thHU&feature=youtu.be

EDIT2: Raz, my friend brought his original KoF2003 last night and it worked fine!!! I am absolutely convinced there's a problem.

Razoola
11-28-2016, 09:24 AM
@GadgetUK, that SVC crash. Looks to be happening when the Highscores should draw..... Try turning off the backupram saving option in the neoSD menu and then clearing your backupRAM and see if that fixes the freeze in SVC attract mode.

Also to confirm, your not overclocking your MVS are you?

Razoola
11-28-2016, 09:49 AM
Just saw your 2nd edit GadgetUk. That is what I suspected would be the case given we never heard anything before with problems with that game on the MV-1FZ.

neosd
11-28-2016, 10:09 AM
Hello GadgetUK,

We just have sent you another firmware update, this one should fix the bank issues you are having.
Again, we were not able to reproduce the issue so this is a test ..

Thanks for your time


Following Razs comment last night about SVC I thought I would test that a bit more throughly - there's a problem with that game too. The CRCs seem to report OK every time I've run the CRC check, but in game the game crashes after the demo and just as it tries to go back to the intro.

I will put the link to the SVC problem here in a minute when its uploaded.




Thanks, I appreciate this isn't the easiest thing to resolve until you can recreate it yourselves.


EDIT: Here's the SVC problem:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJiO0M4thHU&feature=youtu.be

EDIT2: Raz, my friend brought his original KoF2003 last night and it worked fine!!! I am absolutely convinced there's a problem.

greatfunky
11-28-2016, 11:57 AM
What can i say ! my boards are working perfectly now Thank you neosd !

40890

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 11:59 AM
Thanks, I've just applied the update - went in OK, then after it booted its totally unstable now - to the point I cannot program a game because it locks and crashes.

What now worries me is I suspect it would also crash on another firmware update so I think its close to being f*****d because of that last update. It's extremely unstable - If I am lucky after powering off and on 10 times I can navigate to a rom on the first page and program that game. Its not stable enough to navigate more then a few pages, and if I am lucky enough to get to KoF2003 in the list it then black screens as soon as I press A to program (that happens on the roms on the first page of the list too - its just so unstable now). 50% of the time when it boots, I see the Neo SD logo, and it says scanning the SD card, and then I just get a black screen. Please give me an update to put it back to the previous firmware version because this is unusable completely =(

I appreciate the efforts you are going to but the way it is now I can see it being bricked by the next update - It might not even be possible to revert it back to the previous version due to the current problems =/ I would suggest not making any more firmware updates (other than rolling mine back to the previous version) until you are able to replicate the problem at your end. As it was I could play 99% of the library but as it is now its a paper weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWMKd8EmOIU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwaErP0OHw4&feature=youtu.be

neodev
11-28-2016, 12:06 PM
We'll revert your firmware to the previous working one. Don't worry, there are ways to update the firmware without going to the menu, so you won't get a brick. I'm sorry the banking issues haven't been fixed with the latest test firmware.

We are sending you a new one in a few minutes.

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 12:09 PM
Thank you, and you've been incredible helpful today and very fast at responding to everything. What I would say, if we can revert it to the previous update (with the line fixes), don't worry about rushing another update to me after that - take some time out for a few days or something to consider things, see what if any other errors get reported by other users etc. It will allow me to test and play many of the games that seem OK and see what else I can learn about the problem just by testing a wider selection of games.

Rot
11-28-2016, 12:12 PM
I love teh Drama...

But i don't love drama queens... go figure...

xROTx

neodev
11-28-2016, 12:16 PM
Yes, the firmware we are sending is the one with the line fixes, but without the attempt to fix the banking. Just a quick question, do you have your MVS overclocked?




Thank you, and you've been incredible helpful today and very fast at responding to everything. What I would say, if we can revert it to the previous update (with the line fixes), don't worry about rushing another update to me after that - take some time out for a few days or something to consider things, see what if any other errors get reported by other users etc. It will allow me to test and play many of the games that seem OK and see what else I can learn about the problem just by testing a wider selection of games.

neosd
11-28-2016, 12:17 PM
Hello GadgetUK,

We have sent you a firmware to revert it to the previous state.
Follow the instructions on the email, cause this time is different procedure.

Also, really sorry to not get it fixed today, it would really help us a lot if you can get a different mv1fz, cause we have tried to get the same issue here and we cant find a way to reproduce it.

Thanks


Thank you, and you've been incredible helpful today and very fast at responding to everything. What I would say, if we can revert it to the previous update (with the line fixes), don't worry about rushing another update to me after that - take some time out for a few days or something to consider things, see what if any other errors get reported by other users etc. It will allow me to test and play many of the games that seem OK and see what else I can learn about the problem just by testing a wider selection of games.

Mikekim
11-28-2016, 12:21 PM
Ive managed to test on a couple of boards;

MV-1C (Analogue CMVS) no issue
MV-1B (Supergun) no Issue
MV-1B Supergun) no Issue (Korean Bios)
MV-1FZ (Supergun) glitching issue

couldn't get my MV-4F to work with the supergun...

neosd
11-28-2016, 12:24 PM
Hello,

Could we send you the first firmware that solves the glitching on the MV-1FZ ?

If so, could you send us an email to contact@neosdstor...... ? with your serial number

Thanks



Ive managed to test on a couple of boards;

MV-1C (Analogue CMVS) no issue
MV-1B (Supergun) no Issue
MV-1B Supergun) no Issue (Korean Bios)
MV-1FZ (Supergun) glitching issue

couldn't get my MV-4F to work with the supergun...

Razoola
11-28-2016, 12:35 PM
Ive managed to test on a couple of boards;

MV-1C (Analogue CMVS) no issue
MV-1B (Supergun) no Issue
MV-1B Supergun) no Issue (Korean Bios)
MV-1FZ (Supergun) glitching issue

couldn't get my MV-4F to work with the supergun...

which glitching issue are you talking about, the hair issue in kof2003 video gadget posted or the SSVS hortz lines?

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 12:49 PM
Thanks, I applied the forced firmware update (< now that's a nice feature and shows good design as its not relying on the 68K to do the work), and that has successfully reverted it back to the previous state. Just testing some games now to see if I can find any other problems besides KoF2003 and MS5.

My system is not overclocked btw! I've got something like 80 carts, 6 multicarts, several boots - all of them work flawelessly on this system!

neodev
11-28-2016, 12:52 PM
Thanks, I was just ruling out some posibilities with the overclocking question.


Thanks, I applied the forced firmware update (< now that's a nice feature and shows good design as its not relying on the 68K to do the work), and that has successfully reverted it back to the previous state. Just testing some games now to see if I can find any other problems besides KoF2003 and MS5.

My system is not overclocked btw! I've got something like 80 carts, 6 multicarts, several boots - all of them work flawelessly on this system!

Razoola
11-28-2016, 12:57 PM
Thanks, I applied the forced firmware update (< now that's a nice feature and shows good design as its not relying on the 68K to do the work), and that has successfully reverted it back to the previous state. Just testing some games now to see if I can find any other problems besides KoF2003 and MS5.

My system is not overclocked btw! I've got something like 80 carts, 6 multicarts, several boots - all of them work flawelessly on this system!


Did my suggestion fix the SVC issue you had?

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 02:14 PM
Thanks, I was just ruling out some posibilities with the overclocking question.
Just a quick update - I think its a fault on the cart! Well, I am guessing so at this stage - I need to do more testing at lunch tomorrow (working in morning), but I went through a tonne of pain getting my 4 slot out of storage and wired up just now. It doesn't boot AT ALL on the 4 slot. I tested the 4 slot - just as a sanity check, with several games, including 161 in 1 and the 4 slot works perfectly with all 4 slots. The Neo SD on its own in ANY of the 4 slots just results in the standard green screen with blocks with a reset as it steps through each slot looking for a cart.

What is interesting is how the MV1FZ can have these wierd problems yet the 4 slot wont even boot it =|

Just now I spent 20 minutes examing the board with high magnification, I see a couple of minor manufacturing glitches but they are so minor (and not on the right part of the PCB) that I fail to see how they could cause the fault. I've moved the serial number stickers onto ground plane areas of the board, just to make sure those weren't providing some capacitance to underlying traces (paper does act as a capacitor, although unlikely I wanted to rule it out), but that made no difference. If I was to speculate I would think that there's a very small solder bridge somewhere (where I dont know), or some flux or something perhaps providing some capacitance between pins on a chip.

I guess once I've tested it again tomorrow the next step would be for me to send it back to you guys to take a look at and see if you can work out WTF is going on with it lol. I just KNEW something was going to go wrong with this order - you know when you get so excited and hyped for something and you CANNOT WAIT for it to arrive, that's just a recipe for disaster imho!!! Murphy pops out and throws some unexpected problem at you, and all because you were super excited and thought your dreams had come true lol.

I will upload another video tomorrow, just so everything is clear so far. Hats off to you guys for being so supportive today! And that lines fix did work a treat, so no one else should have the wierd sh** that I've had lol


Did my suggestion fix the SVC issue you had?

Yes thanks!!! You were spot on as always, the SVC hang was indeed BRAM needing reset!

fille1976
11-28-2016, 02:37 PM
hope for you gadget they can solve it,but sometimes bad luck happens.
my mvs is shipped,so hope this saturday i can test my neosd.

Razoola
11-28-2016, 02:40 PM
@Gadget, I see your reasoning but I think its a bit early to say your NeoSD has a the fault although I agree its a posibility.

Is it possible for example that you can raise the voltage slighty so your at say 5.02v and see if that makes a different on your MV-1FZ?

On a 4 slot it should goto the crosshatch if a game is not found. If its cycling though the green boot screen then there is something causing the 4slot to reset before the crosshatch displays. To be honest though I am not 100% sure if the NeoSD has been tested on a 4 or 6 slot yet so wait for neosd to respond about that. As far as I know it was tested on a 2 slot but those work differently than 4 and 6 slots.

I think what is needed is a few people with a MV-1FZ to load the main kof2003 set onto their NeoSD and then do the unibios crc32 check a few times and confirm it always passes.

neosd
11-28-2016, 02:41 PM
Hello,

Donīt worry, if this is a hardware fault we can send you a replacement in advance.

It would be great anyways if you can try it into another mv1fz.

Thanks for your time


Just a quick update - I think its a fault on the cart! Well, I am guessing so at this stage - I need to do more testing at lunch tomorrow (working in morning), but I went through a tonne of pain getting my 4 slot out of storage and wired up just now. It doesn't boot AT ALL on the 4 slot. I tested the 4 slot - just as a sanity check, with several games, including 161 in 1 and the 4 slot works perfectly with all 4 slots. The Neo SD on its own in ANY of the 4 slots just results in the standard green screen with blocks with a reset as it steps through each slot looking for a cart.

What is interesting is how the MV1FZ can have these wierd problems yet the 4 slot wont even boot it =|

Just now I spent 20 minutes examing the board with high magnification, I see a couple of minor manufacturing glitches but they are so minor (and not on the right part of the PCB) that I fail to see how they could cause the fault. I've moved the serial number stickers onto ground plane areas of the board, just to make sure those weren't providing some capacitance to underlying traces (paper does act as a capacitor, although unlikely I wanted to rule it out), but that made no difference. If I was to speculate I would think that there's a very small solder bridge somewhere (where I dont know), or some flux or something perhaps providing some capacitance between pins on a chip.

I guess once I've tested it again tomorrow the next step would be for me to send it back to you guys to take a look at and see if you can work out WTF is going on with it lol. I just KNEW something was going to go wrong with this order - you know when you get so excited and hyped for something and you CANNOT WAIT for it to arrive, that's just a recipe for disaster imho!!! Murphy pops out and throws some unexpected problem at you, and all because you were super excited and thought your dreams had come true lol.

I will upload another video tomorrow, just so everything is clear so far. Hats off to you guys for being so supportive today! And that lines fix did work a treat, so no one else should have the wierd sh** that I've had lol



Yes thanks!!! You were spot on as always, the SVC hang was indeed BRAM needing reset!

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 03:02 PM
@Gadget, I see your reasoning but I think its a bit early to say your NeoSD has a the fault although I agree its a posibility.

Is it possible for example that you can raise the voltage slighty so your at say 5.02v and see if that makes a different on your MV-1FZ?

On a 4 slot it should goto the crosshatch if a game is not found. If its cycling though the green boot screen then there is something causing the 4slot to reset before the crosshatch displays. To be honest though I am not 100% sure if the NeoSD has been tested on a 4 or 6 slot yet so wait for neosd to respond about that. As far as I know it was tested on a 2 slot but those work differently than 4 and 6 slots.

I think what is needed is a few people with a MV-1FZ to load the main kof2003 set onto their NeoSD and then do the unibios crc32 check a few times and confirm it always passes.

The voltage is definitely not the problem! For testing I've been using an 8 amp 5v PSU with hardly any ripple. It shows around 5.15v - but that makes no difference vs the original PSU I was using, which again has hardly any ripple. I saw someone a few pages back say they had tested with a 4 slot I think - unless they were talking about KoF2003? With regards to other people testing on an MV1FZ, I agree, but no one else has come forward with the same problem which leaves 2 possibilities. Either the cart or my system is faulty. I know both systems work perfectly with all the other carts I have, I know the power is not a source of the problem, and neither are dirty slots, it leaves nothing but a problem with the cart I think. The 4 slot behaves totally normally with other carts (regards to cross hatch), but I will test more thoroughly tomorrow.

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 03:14 PM
Hello,

Donīt worry, if this is a hardware fault we can send you a replacement in advance.

It would be great anyways if you can try it into another mv1fz.

Thanks for your time

Thanks and thanks for all the support with the updates today! The way that forced update works is really well thought out =D

EDIT: I've just managed to spend another 10 minutes looking at the 4 slot - It behaves correct in that without any carts it goes to cross hatch. With any of my other carts in any or all of the slots they work fine.

Tested the Neo SD again (in all 4 slots with no other carts loaded) and it just watchdogs (green screen with blocks and loops around). I then put the Neo SD into the MV1FZ, and changed the mode to Menu, so it boots in to the menu instead of trying to boot KoF2003. Then put the Neo SD back into the 4 slot and the menu came up, but its glichy and can freeze. I managed to program a game on the 4 slot, but when I run it the same problem occurs as did when it had KoF2003 flashed onto it - the green screen with blocks reset. If I leave it doing that reset, occasionally I will see the start of the neo geo splash but then it just resets again.

Voltage is good, 4 slot is rock solid with other games, so my current conclussion is there is a fault with the card. I bet it ends up being something really simple like a single partical of solder or something.

greatfunky
11-28-2016, 04:55 PM
yep ! 4 slot tested by me yesterday before the update and was working fine .....

GadgetUK
11-28-2016, 06:06 PM
yep ! 4 slot tested by me yesterday before the update and was working fine .....
Thanks for the info, that's good to know!

GadgetUK
11-29-2016, 06:13 AM
I've closely inspected the boards again and they look fine, but there are a couple of manufacturing glitches (typically these types of things dont cause problems). Now its important to note that I've tested connectivity from the edge to the level shifter and there is a good connection with no shorts on that trace to the pins next to. The copper particals you can see there seem to be on the top of the trace edge (it looks like a break but it isn't, its additional copper), meaning that this trace is close to the trace above. I am wondering if this is influencing some cross talk. It might be useful for neodev to take a look at the video and see if they can work out which bus it would be affecting. It's going to be either the prog bus or v bus but I am not sure without digging through cart edge pin outs and I dont have much time just now. It could be totally unrelated but its the only thing I can see that is worth ruling out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP6WQ946SKs&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: I've just had a quick look at the pinout and I think its related to some of the prog address lines. So maybe that is the problem? I could just take a scalpel to the board to seperate the traces but I don't want to do anything like that to a board thats under warranty. Please let me know what you think, I can post this back if you want. I retested on the 4 slot, still wierd things going on. And one more point that 'might be related, I wiped over that trace with IPA to see if it would clean up and noticed an exception raised when testing KoF2003 on the MV1FZ, so I am wondering if wiping it with a cotton bud has influenced those particals to the point where its now more glitchy? It could all be cooincidence but its strange because I've not had any exceptions at all until wiping that trace with a cotton bud, so part of me thinks that could be the problem.

It might be that the drive levels on the 4 slot are stronger (because of the slot buffering etc), and maybe thats why it doesnt boot at all on the 4 slot?

neosd
11-29-2016, 07:11 AM
Hello,

Big thanks for the video, we have sent it to the pcbs factory by email and got a call from them 2 minutes ago.

They check with visual inspection machines every pcb before shipping those to the seccond factory that solders the chips and connectors.
Seccond factory gets the pcbs and solder those using stencil, pick and place machines and an oven. Once the boards are soldered they use another visual inspection machine that checks every solder point on the pcb to be sure everything is ok.

Checking how the process works, the pcb has to been damaged on transport, we dont know on which exact transport stage.

Anyways, we think this issue may not be related with your problem at all but we think thats better to ship you a new one tomorrow, this one we will ship you, it will be heavy tested on 4 different MV1FZ boards today, so this way we will know for sure where the issue is.

Once you ship us back your board, we will analyze it aswel to see whats happening there, to close the circle.

Thanks for your time and sorry for the trouble

Also, we are going to pay you the shipping from UK to Spain.


I've closely inspected the boards again and they look fine, but there are a couple of manufacturing glitches (typically these types of things dont cause problems). Now its important to note that I've tested connectivity from the edge to the level shifter and there is a good connection with no shorts on that trace to the pins next to. The copper particals you can see there seem to be on the top of the trace edge (it looks like a break but it isn't, its additional copper), meaning that this trace is close to the trace above. I am wondering if this is influencing some cross talk. It might be useful for neodev to take a look at the video and see if they can work out which bus it would be affecting. It's going to be either the prog bus or v bus but I am not sure without digging through cart edge pin outs and I dont have much time just now. It could be totally unrelated but its the only thing I can see that is worth ruling out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP6WQ946SKs&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: I've just had a quick look at the pinout and I think its related to some of the prog address lines. So maybe that is the problem? I could just take a scalpel to the board to seperate the traces but I don't want to do anything like that to a board thats under warranty. Please let me know what you think, I can post this back if you want. I retested on the 4 slot, still wierd things going on. And one more point that 'might be related, I wiped over that trace with IPA to see if it would clean up and noticed an exception raised when testing KoF2003 on the MV1FZ, so I am wondering if wiping it with a cotton bud has influenced those particals to the point where its now more glitchy? It could all be cooincidence but its strange because I've not had any exceptions at all until wiping that trace with a cotton bud, so part of me thinks that could be the problem.

It might be that the drive levels on the 4 slot are stronger (because of the slot buffering etc), and maybe thats why it doesnt boot at all on the 4 slot?

GadgetUK
11-29-2016, 08:24 AM
Thanks, very much appreciated!

I don't think that little glitch on the board is the issue tbh. I will wait for the new boards now and hope that works OK.

GadgetUK
11-29-2016, 02:48 PM
yep ! 4 slot tested by me yesterday before the update and was working fine .....

Do you happen to know which 4 slot you have - does it have the old 'pro' chipset, pro-b0 etc, or the newer chipset like the AES 3-x and MV1FZ use?

greatfunky
11-29-2016, 04:43 PM
Do you happen to know which 4 slot you have - does it have the old 'pro' chipset, pro-b0 etc, or the newer chipset like the AES 3-x and MV1FZ use?

To be honest .... i absolutely don't know , i screwed that board inside one of my cabinets since many years now and it was never opened ( at least by me ).

GadgetUK
11-30-2016, 02:22 PM
Still not made any progress except that all the other games I've tested seem OK, except for KoF2003 and MS5. I really hope it is a fault on the cart because otherwise I imagine this taking ages to work out the cause =/ I guess if someone else could confirm whether it will boot a game on a 4 slot using the 'pro' chipset that might help. If they can boot games on that 4 slot it would give me confidence that it must be the cart.

I think the most likely explanation at the moment, if there is a fault is perhaps a glitchy level shifter, or a line floating / almost floating somewhere. The suspense is killing me lol.

In the meantime I've got the review video uploading now - I've not included anything about this CRC issue though.

My initial video is here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv6eYff-fZ0&feature=youtu.be

Gummy Bear
11-30-2016, 02:49 PM
Does the sytem mode and region options get disabled if you have a unibios? The reason I ask is I noticed on the 4 slot when I boot into the menu its allows region and system changes, but on my 1FZ with the unibios it does not.

Yeah that's normal, man. If the cart detects the unibios it hands those settings over to it.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-30-2016, 03:25 PM
@neosd
Just an insignificant detail. The gamelist on the NeoSD menu shows "The King of Fighters '95" twice, in addition to "The King of Fighters '95 (AES)". Maybe the repeated one corresponds to kof95a.zip romset, which I think it's called "The King of Fighters '95 (Alternate)" or similar.

neosd
11-30-2016, 03:58 PM
Hello,

We just have checked it, its a bug on the neobuilder, we will fix it and upload a new version.

BTW, its better to be before, rather than never or smoke ;)

Thanks


@neosd
Just an insignificant detail. The gamelist on the NeoSD menu shows "The King of Fighters '95" twice, in addition to "The King of Fighters '95 (AES)". Maybe the repeated one corresponds to kof95a.zip romset, which I think it's called "The King of Fighters '95 (Alternate)" or similar.

Sceptre_JLRB
11-30-2016, 05:27 PM
Hello,

We just have checked it, its a bug on the neobuilder, we will fix it and upload a new version.

BTW, its better to be before, rather than never or smoke ;)

Thanks

Thank you very much!

LOL for 'teh Espanis Drama' :lolz:


Coming back to the interesting affairs, while testing KOF95 I'll observed the horizontal lines glitch, but in a slight fashion, a couple of times. Just turned off the MVS, then on, and they disappeared. Magician Lord also showed them once. Both cases were the same as previously reported by some MV-1FZ/1FZS users, but the horizontal lines seem to appear in a minor way and rarely, being easily eliminated. I'm using an MV-1F board with UniBIOS 3.2 Free, and validated .neo files. Should I also receive the firmware update for this glitch?

neodev
12-01-2016, 03:55 AM
We can send you the testing firmware that fixes the line glitches. Just send us an email to contact@neosdstore with your serial number. Keep in mind that firmware is not final and contains some WIP features :).


Thank you very much!

LOL for 'teh Espanis Drama' :lolz:


Coming back to the interesting affairs, while testing KOF95 I'll observed the horizontal lines glitch, but in a slight fashion, a couple of times. Just turned off the MVS, then on, and they disappeared. Magician Lord also showed them once. Both cases were the same as previously reported by some MV-1FZ/1FZS users, but the horizontal lines seem to appear in a minor way and rarely, being easily eliminated. I'm using an MV-1F board with UniBIOS 3.2 Free, and validated .neo files. Should I also receive the firmware update for this glitch?

Sceptre_JLRB
12-01-2016, 05:41 AM
We can send you the testing firmware that fixes the line glitches. Just send us an email to contact@neosdstore with your serial number. Keep in mind that firmware is not final and contains some WIP features :).

Thank you so much, @neosd & @neodev. Although the glitch rarely appears, I think I'd better install the fix firmware just to prevent.

neosd
12-01-2016, 07:13 AM
Thank you so much, @neosd & @neodev. Although the glitch rarely appears, I think I'd better install the fix firmware just to prevent.

Hello,


You got an email.

Its still a beta firmware, we are going release an update with more functions among this fix.
Right now, everyone wanting to try it can contact us, we will send it to anyone wanting to try it. Once download section is fully operative, firmwares will be downloaded from there.

Thanks

Sceptre_JLRB
12-01-2016, 07:15 AM
Just got and installed the fix firmware. Everything works perfect!
Thanks a lot, also for your prompt and efficient answer. :glee:

GadgetUK
12-01-2016, 09:01 AM
I noticed earlier that CRC issues happen with Matrimelee as well - random CRC on bank 0 or bank 1, sometimes they come back as NG but usually one gives wrong CRC. What I don't understand is why the problem seems to be related to the last games that used the CHAFIO board. I cannot help but feel that maybe the cart is fine and its some yet undiscovered timing glitch between some MV-1FZ and the implementation of the CHAFIO chipset. Until someone else confirms whether the cart works on a 4 slot using the 'pro' chipset, I have to assume that perhaps it just isn't compatible with my 4 slot, and that is a seperate issue to the problem I am having with the 1FZ.

The behaviour of the seemingly random CRC glitches on MS5, KOF2003 and now Matrimelee lead me to think that it is a timing issue on the CHAFIO chipset implementation, or perhaps a fault there. The kind of behaviour I seem to be seeing would suggest cross talk, or a rarely occuring timing issue, but it results in the same graphical issues in the same place on KoF2003.

The thing that just doesn't add up to a faulty cart is - All the other games I've played that dont use the CHAFIO all work fine, display fine and most importantly they all report a good CRC no matter how many times you run the CRC check. But that's not the case with the 3 games mentioned above. There is an interesting exception to this which might provide another clue - The KoF2003 boot rom on the Neo SD does the same graphical issues and CRC problems, and that I believe does not use the CHAFIO implementation (ie. decryption hardware).

My question to the technical experts here - what is different about those games that could be relevant? Could it be a hard to spot timing issue related to bank switching used on games that use a lot of P ROM. Is it the technique used to swap between P ROM banks? - This might be a question for Raz! When doing the CRC check on say Matrimelee, what is done to swap banks, and when CRC checking a bank what goes on at hardware level regards addressing. Does it just read a sequential address range and toggle a couple of upper address bits to change the bank, or is it more complicated than that?

Razoola
12-01-2016, 09:38 AM
I am more leaning towards that your neoSD has a fault to be honest but then again I don't know the internal workings of the neo sd so I could be totally wrong. I simply say that atm because noone else is reporting this crc32 issue. Can you put RBFF2 through multiple crc32 check and see if a bank ever fails on that?

Raz

neodev
12-01-2016, 09:44 AM
I noticed earlier that CRC issues happen with Matrimelee as well - random CRC on bank 0 or bank 1, sometimes they come back as NG but usually one gives wrong CRC. What I don't understand is why the problem seems to be related to the last games that used the CHAFIO board. I cannot help but feel that maybe the cart is fine and its some yet undiscovered timing glitch between some MV-1FZ and the implementation of the CHAFIO chipset. Until someone else confirms whether the cart works on a 4 slot using the 'pro' chipset, I have to assume that perhaps it just isn't compatible with my 4 slot, and that is a seperate issue to the problem I am having with the 1FZ.

The behaviour of the seemingly random CRC glitches on MS5, KOF2003 and now Matrimelee lead me to think that it is a timing issue on the CHAFIO chipset implementation, or perhaps a fault there. The kind of behaviour I seem to be seeing would suggest cross talk, or a rarely occuring timing issue, but it results in the same graphical issues in the same place on KoF2003.

The thing that just doesn't add up to a faulty cart is - All the other games I've played that dont use the CHAFIO all work fine, display fine and most importantly they all report a good CRC no matter how many times you run the CRC check. But that's not the case with the 3 games mentioned above. There is an interesting exception to this which might provide another clue - The KoF2003 boot rom on the Neo SD does the same graphical issues and CRC problems, and that I believe does not use the CHAFIO implementation (ie. decryption hardware).

My question to the technical experts here - what is different about those games that could be relevant? Could it be a hard to spot timing issue related to bank switching used on games that use a lot of P ROM. Is it the technique used to swap between P ROM banks? - This might be a question for Raz! When doing the CRC check on say Matrimelee, what is done to swap banks, and when CRC checking a bank what goes on at hardware level regards addressing. Does it just read a sequential address range and toggle a couple of upper address bits to change the bank, or is it more complicated than that?


I think there could be an issue in your cart, as matrimelee use a plain standard bankswitching. kof2003 and ms5 (and svc) are more timing sensitive, because they are more complicated, but for matrimelee, the address and data are quite slow compared to the hardware speed, and the data is served directly by the flashroms, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Mikekim
12-01-2016, 11:55 AM
Hello,

Could we send you the first firmware that solves the glitching on the MV-1FZ ?

If so, could you send us an email to contact@neosdstor...... ? with your serial number

Thanks

Downloaded the supplied firmware update and the my MV-1FZ no longer glitches

hope this helps you get the issue fixed

GadgetUK
12-01-2016, 12:08 PM
I am more leaning towards that your neoSD has a fault to be honest but then again I don't know the internal workings of the neo sd so I could be totally wrong. I simply say that atm because noone else is reporting this crc32 issue. Can you put RBFF2 through multiple crc32 check and see if a bank ever fails on that?

Raz

Thanks, will do now!

EDIT: No problems with checksum on that game after about 10 checks.

EDIT2: Wow, I noticed last night that if you press SELECT + START in the menu, there's already an option to load and save backup RAM - I missed that in my review video the other day, I will cover that in the follow up video =D