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View Full Version : MVS & AES NEOSD flash card... AES Version ANNOUNCED & AVAILABLE!!



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lherre
10-18-2016, 09:27 AM
Apparently the first Neo-Geo MVS flash card has been released.

Here the review

http://vgleaks.com/review-neosd-mvs/


768 Mbits of flash memory, enough to hold the largest officially released games, plus some extra space for system software.
ARM Cortex M4 at 168MHz, 1MB flash, 128KB RAM. For SD access, Flash programming, cartridge control and original cartridge protections emulation.
2x Lattice XP2 FPGA. Flash based, instant-on, low power, high density FPGAs. For bus decoding and multiplexing, flash access, bank switching, programming help.
Supports micro SD & SDHC cards up to 32GB. FAT32 with long file names.
User friendly game selection menu with game screenshots.
Instant boot to the last flashed game. It appears as an original cartridge to the board, and can use the bios softdips configuration with the original cart.
Runs original games unpatched, emulating the original cartridge protections in hardware.
Ability to boot to the game flash menu from in-game (configurable trigger combination)
Can be used for game development. Allows the homebrew games to access expanded hardware features (S rom banking, increased bank area space).
Updateable system software and firmware for future additions and features.
Switch cartridge region without needing special bios.
MVS board AES emulation without needing special bios.

380 euros

Thoughts??

Kid Panda
10-18-2016, 09:35 AM
My thoughts? I think I'm going to buy one.

lolifoxgirl
10-18-2016, 09:42 AM
Get in my neo.

Mega
10-18-2016, 09:45 AM
Is this related in any way to the long awaited Darksoft flash cart? Looks different.

http://www.retrocollect.com/News/darksofts-neo-geo-aes-a-mvs-flash-cartridges-nearing-release.html

Gyrian
10-18-2016, 09:51 AM
Sort of mysterious, and they're certainly not advertising who is responsible for this product.
Odd choice to create a shell that looks like an AES cart rather than MVS.

Welp! Looking forward to impressions from folks over here.

Kid Panda
10-18-2016, 09:55 AM
The NeoSD team is prolly something along the lines of the ezflash guys.

Razoola
10-18-2016, 09:58 AM
https://www.neosdstore.com/shop/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product&id_lang=1

totally out of the blue, if what they say in the specs there are true.. That flash cart will play _ALL_ original NeoGeo games and will not have to use roms with patched out protections.

Raz

ckchan
10-18-2016, 10:28 AM
I will be interested if the board is for AES.

GohanX
10-18-2016, 10:30 AM
Well, this was unexpected.

Razoola
10-18-2016, 10:32 AM
Its defo different from darksofts device. I have spent some time looking over the videos and it will be using the banking in an identical way to how NeoGeoLand will operate if it ever happens. Clearly they have spent some time here, right down to having the sd card accessable outside the cart shell. A very polished product although I think the UI could be better.

GohanX
10-18-2016, 10:34 AM
I'm just amazed that this device is being released that seems to be virtually perfect and we've not heard a thing about it.

MOLTOMOLTO
10-18-2016, 10:34 AM
39947

will wait to see how this stacks up with the other upcoming multicarts before making a purchase though.

fenikso
10-18-2016, 10:39 AM
Well, this was out of the fucking blue. I wish it was for the home system, but you can't always get what you want. If anyone here buys one, be sure to post up reviews.

Kid Panda
10-18-2016, 10:41 AM
It won't ship til November

xsq
10-18-2016, 10:46 AM
wow... what?
they should colab with Raz now and make the ultimate product.

great respect.

Razoola
10-18-2016, 10:50 AM
kof2003 I see in the video appears to be the original version of the game, it is defo taking care of the 512k fix tile banking as it should. thats one thing none of the kof2003 bootlegs do right.

xsq
10-18-2016, 10:51 AM
I see a "neosd" account is browsing this thread - if you are affiliated with the team behind this, please post up!

Razoola
10-18-2016, 10:53 AM
Yes they are, waiting on a mod to activate their account then Im sure they will post and we will get to know a little more.

gusmoney
10-18-2016, 11:14 AM
I wonder if this will play nice with the memory card.

pixeljunkie
10-18-2016, 11:21 AM
That cart shell sure looks like Quan's

I want this now, please

Kloggmonkey
10-18-2016, 11:22 AM
Well this is a pleasant surprise to wake up to on your birthday. I'll wait on this to hear if it plays nice with a Magickey and/or the Unibios.

xsq
10-18-2016, 11:23 AM
I wonder if this will play nice with the memory card.
It should. Everything will be like it is with an original cart if I understand correctly... which makes this so damn intriguing. Even more so since nobody seems to have heard about it up to now...

ChopstickSamurai
10-18-2016, 11:23 AM
Wow this is really exciting! Can't wait to read some impressions once it's released.

Rot
10-18-2016, 11:25 AM
neosd is on...

Let's see where this leads... meh...

xROTx

Razoola
10-18-2016, 11:29 AM
I just had a look in DS forum and it seems they are already playing the 'look at those loading times' compared to ours type game, I guess they currently fail to realise this device is a one time load during a game change and not at every power on like with their device. Even their own poll suggested users wanted the device the way this one works.

At the end of the day though it will probably come down to which one can play the original games and at the moment this one wins on that front given what DS said would be required with the protected games.

massimiliano
10-18-2016, 11:32 AM
damn, the payment process ends in error... there is no PayPal option, just a Spanish credit card payment link..
~get my money~
Anyway, this is like an everdrive (which is cool), a multicart would theoretically be a step above, not needing to load into the flash the games.... Raz, I hope you would like to keep the great work coming!

LegoSlug
10-18-2016, 11:40 AM
Sign me up for one. Maybe a second one in a year or so if you can run more than one in a multi slot. haha.

Loading time isn't great, but I am okay with that. Realistically, I wont be switching games back to back. Hoping there is a function to lock the game so you can't switch. But with the start plus a plus b, accidental reset should be unlikely.

Mikekim
10-18-2016, 11:53 AM
just ordered one...
no shells in stock though, not a problem as i have a bootleg tophunter shell i can use.

12-14 days for delivery....

Razoola
10-18-2016, 11:54 AM
it clearly states it ships on 15th november so you have a few more days than that to wait.

lherre
10-18-2016, 11:57 AM
I just had a look in DS forum and it seems they are already playing the 'look at those loading times' compared to ours type game, I guess they currently fail to realise this device is a one time load during a game change and not at every power on like with their device. Even their own poll suggested users wanted the device the way this one works.

At the end of the day though it will probably come down to which one can play the original games and at the moment this one wins on that front given what DS said would be required with the protected games.

Yes, when you flash one game it works like an original one. It loads this game instantaneous if you reset or turn-on the mvs. It is not erased from the memory until you flash a new game.

Rot
10-18-2016, 11:57 AM
I am awaiting a post from neosd... just to clarify the tech side and the product details...

HEY neosd... post soon...

xROTx

PS. neosd... I assume you've already browsed our website... and know whats what... hence, i would APPRECIATE.... a response...

Slugger
10-18-2016, 12:00 PM
wow, this came out of nowhere. After all these years itīs finally here folks! Iīm gonna wait impressions and see what else comes up. The load times and ui are kind of meh but definitely not a deal breaker for me.

Razoola
10-18-2016, 12:01 PM
and just to be clear, I do not currently have any background information on this flashcart to be able to vouch for it 100%. I am simply going from the same videos you guys are seeing and the info posted on their website.

neosd
10-18-2016, 12:04 PM
damn, the payment process ends in error... there is no PayPal option, just a Spanish credit card payment link..
~get my money~
Anyway, this is like an everdrive (which is cool), a multicart would theoretically be a step above, not needing to load into the flash the games.... Raz, I hope you would like to keep the great work coming!

Hi,

Sorry for the problem, we have contacted BBVA right now, we are waiting for a solution.

About load times : We have showed how the product is, we could have not showed load times until people gets the carts, but its more honest to show it since day one.

If you ask me, i can tell you that once you get the device, the experience is pretty good loading games, 4 minutes 17 secconds is what metal slug 5 pcb vesion takes to load if i dont remember it bad, thats 96,6 mbs game. You only have to flash it once, and the game will act as original game. if you have an unibios, you can use cheats cause unbios will recognize the flashed game as a legit game.

We will answer any question, but please, be patient, so many things at the same time now.

Gald you like the device guys, it has been a long road to develope such solution

Rot
10-18-2016, 12:07 PM
Hi,

Sorry for the problem, we have contacted BBVA right now, we are waiting for a solution.

About load times : We have showed how the product is, we could have not showed load times until people gets the carts, but its more honest to show it since day one.

If you ask me, i can tell you that once you get the device, the experience is pretty good loading games, 4 minutes 17 secconds is what metal slug 5 pcb vesion takes to load if i dont remember it bad, thats 96,6 mbs game. You only have to flash it once, and the game will act as original game. if you have an unibios, you can use cheats cause unbios will recognize the flashed game as a legit game.

We will answer any question, but please, be patient, so many things at the same time now.

Gald you like the device guys, it has been a long road to develope such solution

I have only ONE question... Have your tech guys been trying to join our site?

... I only ask because there have been a LOT of intrusive accounts trying to join when you did... No IP's and some TOR sites...

That's all I wanna know...

xROTx

Razoola
10-18-2016, 12:14 PM
I guess I have a couple of questions more on the tech side of things...

Is it possible to write data to the SD card via a program running on the NeoGeo when the system is on?

In your last post you mention that the unibios will know the game. Is that only in relation to cheats of do you also mean that for example kof2003 running on the flashcart will pass the unibios game cart crc32 check?

neosd
10-18-2016, 12:27 PM
I guess I have a couple of questions more on the tech side of things...

Is it possible to write data to the SD card via a program running on the NeoGeo when the system is on?

In your last post you mention that the unibios will know the game. Is that only in relation to cheats of do you also mean that for example kof2003 running on the flashcart will pass the unibios game cart crc32 check?

Hi Raz,

Will answer your pm asap sorry,

About SD writing : Yes right now we are storing last loaded game into a config file on the SD, we are also going to store on the SD backup ram and softp dips when you change game.
This is already done, and on testing, we havent anounced it because it still havent passed validation (try it on all games)

About CRC check on unibios : we havent tried to pass crc check on unibios to be honest, but we have tried unibios and cheats work fine, same as region and system type change, we will try it tonite and will open a blog entry about that. I
If you ask me, ALL games except metal slut x should pass unibios checksum test. Metal slug X protection as you know its not correctly emulated on any actual emulator, so on this game right now we are patching the game on fly on the fpgas, we have a metal slug x cartridge comming and we will properly emulate it in the next few days/weeks when it arrives.

The cartridge is totally updateable from SD card, so if we dont have time to properlly emulated it before we ship the cartridges, we will add it in the next updates. For the on tech guys : Metal slug X plays fine, but we want to make a perfect device so we will properly emulate it, despite final user will not noteice the difference.

Thanks !

cdamm
10-18-2016, 12:28 PM
Is it possible to load 32gb of only pulstar roms on it?

(Asking for a panda)

Niko
10-18-2016, 12:28 PM
Wow! This is exactly what I wanted from day 1. A simple cart that will flash a single title and be 100% the same as the real deal.

Are you guys starting fresh with emulation, or basing off whats in mame? I ask because sound isnt perfect in mame when emulating the NEO-PCM2

aku
10-18-2016, 12:33 PM
the only multicart i am really interested in has razīs ui - but pretty awesome job guys...

never quote this! i think the neosd will do the job until razīs perfect product will appear...

Razoola
10-18-2016, 12:33 PM
Thanks, I look forward to your PM.

About SD writing: This is what I wanted to know and you have answered the reason why I asked because as you rightly say, being able to write to the SD card from the neogeo opens up posibilities.

Providing you are correctly simulating the cart protections games should pass the unibios check unless you patch the game data in any way.

neosd
10-18-2016, 12:39 PM
Thanks, I look forward to your PM.

About SD writing: This is what I wanted to know and you have answered the reason why I asked because as you rightly say, being able to write to the SD card from the neogeo opens up posibilities.

Providing you are correctly simulating the cart protections games should pass the unibios check unless you patch the game data in any way.

Thats the plan : we want that people to be able to store all backup ram data from each game into sd card, so when you load a different game, you dont loose your high scores or dip switch configurations if the bios decides to remove your game from backup ram.

This feature is not in the list, cause right now only the ARM part of this feature is coded and working, we are missing the actual reading of the backup data, its only a matter of time, we will anounce it and show it once its done.

Thanks

fluxcore
10-18-2016, 12:46 PM
Sounds like a darned good feature set, good work neosd team, keep it up :)

Razoola
10-18-2016, 12:57 PM
Ok one more question in relation to what you said about MSX. You say your patching the game on fly with the fpgas. Does this mean its patching in real time at the point the game is written to flash memory (so the flash is patched), or while the game is playing on the NeoGeo? I guess I'm asking if your cart is intercepting all reads to the program ROM space (0x00000-0xFFFFF) and then returning different values (than that in flash) for some addresses only, to give different opcodes to circumvent the protection?

Lemony Vengeance
10-18-2016, 01:02 PM
Sheeeeeeit. It saves high scores in the rom file?? That's awesome.

massimiliano
10-18-2016, 01:05 PM
Hi,

Sorry for the problem, we have contacted BBVA right now, we are waiting for a solution.


Hi, thanks a lot for already checking this, please let me know (I registered on your site my personal mail so please feel free to contact me there or in PM here!)

Awesome job and it is great having you guys here in this forum.

-SD-
10-18-2016, 01:06 PM
@neosd Any plans for an AES version please?

BLEAGH
10-18-2016, 01:12 PM
Wow, this sounds amazing. I could care less about load times. Anything under 5 mins is fine. Just enough time to grab a drink and a snack when switching games.

I'm curious to hear how it works with multislots.

Can't wait to load it up with KOF hacks.

AirZonk
10-18-2016, 01:15 PM
Will this work with the Daedalus Converter on a AES system?

neosd
10-18-2016, 01:22 PM
Ok one more question in relation to what you said about MSX. You say your patching the game on fly with the fpgas. Does this mean its patching in real time at the point the game is written to flash memory (so the flash is patched), or while the game is playing on the NeoGeo? I guess I'm asking if your cart is intercepting all reads to the program ROM space (0x00000-0xFFFFF) and then returning different values (than that in flash) for some addresses only, to give different opcodes to circumvent the protection?

Hello Again,

About Metal Slug X :

The fpga intercepts the read of specific addresses and returns a different opcode (nop) so it's bypassed. Because the cartridge can't know if it's a read or an opcode fetch, it will make the unibios crc fail, as it will see the modified opcodes as it scans the rom to compute the crc.

We dont patch anything on the rom neither on the flashes.

Think that on a regular basis, we could deliver the flashcart bypassing the protection as it does right now and no one would care about as long as the game is playable, but our goal is to make a perfect solution to people that love the system as much as we do.

This is the main reason we have adopted this design, we want to have 100% the same function the real cartridge delivers.

Thanks !

fenikso
10-18-2016, 01:25 PM
@neosd Any plans for an AES version please?

This.

neosd
10-18-2016, 01:26 PM
Hi, thanks a lot for already checking this, please let me know (I registered on your site my personal mail so please feel free to contact me there or in PM here!)

Awesome job and it is great having you guys here in this forum.

Hi
We have been an entire week doing tests with BBVA to get the payment system aproved and validated, they also ofrced us to put real products some days ago to validate what we were selling, but last minute things allways happens.

So, really sorry about that issue, we have called them but service time ends at 17:30 GTM+1 time, so we got forwared to tomorrow at 08:00 to check whats happening. Whats curious is that we got sales from UK for example, so its not a service problem at all. If you dont mind, send me a PM with your registered email and we will email you from store email address.

Thanks

neosd
10-18-2016, 01:29 PM
This.

We cant coment on future projects right now, all that we can say is that we have more things on the to do list that no one has done and we want to build.

Thanks !

fenikso
10-18-2016, 01:35 PM
We cant coment on future projects right now, all that we can say is that we have more things on the to do list that no one has done and we want to build.

Thanks !
Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

Xian Xi
10-18-2016, 01:36 PM
GUI is ugly. If it was made with more of a Neo theme like NGL then it would be an instant buy.

neosd
10-18-2016, 01:42 PM
GUI is ugly. If it was made with more of a Neo theme like NGL then it would be an instant buy.

We plan to improve it, it may be on shipping date of latter.

Anything can be improved, but if you ask me, i love how it works.

Its fast and you can see the complete list of games with a few clicks (right and left on player one stick move page up and page down).
You notice that when you have more than 200 games in a list, its hard to decide what to load without see as much games as possible on the screen.

Thanks !

EDIT to say that we love NeoGeoLand, amazing piece of art !!

sparksterz
10-18-2016, 01:44 PM
GUI is ugly. If it was made with more of a Neo theme like NGL then it would be an instant buy.

lol...most flash carts don't even have a gui this nice. I also highly doubt that the UI is so ingrained that it couldn't be improved upon in time :p

Edit: Bummer, cases are out of stock. I'll probably hold off, don't know if I trust myself to cleanly insert 2 boards joined by header pins without a case to provide even insertion. Would be an expensive mistake!

Razoola
10-18-2016, 01:48 PM
Hello Again,

About Metal Slug X :

The fpga intercepts the read of specific addresses and returns a different opcode (nop) so it's bypassed. Because the cartridge can't know if it's a read or an opcode fetch, it will make the unibios crc fail, as it will see the modified opcodes as it scans the rom to compute the crc.

We dont patch anything on the rom neither on the flashes, neither on the rom itself.

Think that on a regular basis, we could deliver the flashcart bypassing the protection as it does right now and no one would care about while the game is playable, but our goal is to make a perfect solution to people that love the system as much as we do.

This is the main reason we have adopted this design, we want to have 100% the same function the real cartridge delivers.

Thanks !

I can tell you, you have done it perfectly and the right way. This is exactly how I would have done it myself. Others would have (and have) taken the easy route with their devices and either patched data before its on the sdcard or patched while its written from SDcard to flash. Doing it the way you have is harder but it has many advantages that I do not want to go into publically (I guess you already know what they are).

neosd
10-18-2016, 01:52 PM
lol...most flash carts don't even have a gui this nice. I also highly doubt that the UI is so ingrained that it couldn't be improved upon in time :p

Edit: Bummer, cases are out of stock. I'll probably hold off, don't know if I trust myself to cleanly insert 2 boards joined by header pins without a case to provide even insertion. Would be an expensive mistake!

Videos were uploaded last Sunday, but are quite old, there are things that already have been changed on the UI such as new logo designed by demoscene artist Alien^PDX

39956

opt2not
10-18-2016, 01:55 PM
lol...most flash carts don't even have a gui this nice. I also highly doubt that the UI is so ingrained that it couldn't be improved upon in time :p

Most flash carts don't cost $400+... i would expect a better looking UI for the cost of this thing, than what a 160-in-1 cart looks like.

sparksterz
10-18-2016, 01:59 PM
Most flash carts don't cost $400+... i would expect a better looking UI for the cost of this thing, than what a 160-in-1 cart looks like.

That's fair, I always preferred function over UI. I know there are people who don't. At least unlike a 160-in-1 this ui can change over time.

Fygee
10-18-2016, 02:04 PM
What are the small pin connectors on the top of the board used for?

This is one hell of a suprise. Congrats to your team on what looks to be the first device released that can play every legit released game.

massimiliano
10-18-2016, 02:13 PM
Hi
We have been an entire week doing tests with BBVA to get the payment system aproved and validated, they also ofrced us to put real products some days ago to validate what we were selling, but last minute things allways happens.

So, really sorry about that issue, we have called them but service time ends at 17:30 GTM+1 time, so we got forwared to tomorrow at 08:00 to check whats happening. Whats curious is that we got sales from UK for example, so its not a service problem at all. If you dont mind, send me a PM with your registered email and we will email you from store email address.

Thanks

Thanks! PM sent

neosd
10-18-2016, 02:15 PM
Most flash carts don't cost $400+... i would expect a better looking UI for the cost of this thing, than what a 160-in-1 cart looks like.

All i can say about that is : most of the flash carts are just a MCU or a FPGA that copies one file into a single flash chip. Not talking about the amount of time needed to develop something like NEOSD.

Thanks

aku
10-18-2016, 02:21 PM
...new logo designed by demoscene artist Alien^PDX

39956

i fcking knew it!^^ a few hours ago i searched through old pdx, titan etc. productions to find the "nearly 1:1" version...

anyways...awesome news...THAN I WILL GET ONE! OR TWO!!1^^

pixeljunkie
10-18-2016, 02:24 PM
All i can say about that is : most of the flash carts are just a MCU or a FPGA that copies one file into a single flash chip. Not talking about the amount of time needed to develop something like NEOSD.

Thanks

fair answer, I respect that. I just get annoyed when anything "Neo" related always has to have a high price tag because it's "Neo"...hopefully, the AES version isn't more because "it's AES".

Also, when will the cart shells be available for preorder?

neosd
10-18-2016, 02:26 PM
i fcking knew it!^^ a few hours ago i searched through old pdx, titan etc. productions to find the "nearly 1:1" version...

anyways...awesome news...THAN I WILL GET ONE! OR TWO!!1^^

We know Alien since 20 years ago or so, i know much people may preffer new style art, i understand that, but this logo give us so much love for old times .

Thanks !

neosd
10-18-2016, 02:34 PM
fair answer, I respect that. I just get annoyed when anything "Neo" related always has to have a high price tag because it's "Neo"...hopefully, the AES version isn't more because "it's AES".

Also, when will the cart shells be available for preorder?

Well, the price tag is linked with the amount of hours we have spent on the device, manufacturing costs, prototyping costs, company costs (remember, we are a company and we pay fees and taxes, you get invoice and one year waranty with your purchase).

I dont really want to talk about other flashcarts such as SNES or Mega Drive ones, even i have my opinion, it would not be fair neither prolly objetive.

Neo geo is not a mainstream system such as other systems (there are less people with systems), neither is an easy system to make a fast solution, we need to get our investment back to continue delivering more products.

So resuming : more work, more expensive to manufacture, less units to sell.

There is always more than one reason why no one has done this product before

At the end of the day this is all about : NEOSD is a product that has already been sent for manufacturing, people is going to have it, we may get or not get our investment back, if we get it, we will be able to do other projects, else we will have to keep coding other things not as fun as this one.


About the shells : We dont want to allow people purchase those now until we get the final ones, cause those are going to be black and dont want people complaining about cases being black and not white as the ones on the webshop (the ones on the webshop are printed with profesional laser printer, those are not production cases).
About dates : cases should be here before December, thats what we have signed with the factory.

Thanks !

Fygee
10-18-2016, 02:37 PM
We know Alien since 20 years ago or so, i know much people may preffer new style art, i understand that, but this logo give us so much love for old times .

Thanks !

I think its great. I loved the old warez/demo scene logos back in the day. Even better if you add an option for some music in the same style as well.

hyper
10-18-2016, 02:45 PM
looks really good, interested in picking one up

aku
10-18-2016, 02:48 PM
We know Alien since 20 years ago or so, i know much people may preffer new style art, i understand that, but this logo give us so much love for old times .

Thanks !

preorder worked from germany - thanks & glws :)

massimiliano
10-18-2016, 03:29 PM
About the shells, any comment about the AES-style for an MVS cart?

I guess an MVS-style cart and horizontal label space would have been consistent!

(..btw, for "purists" would the pcb fit in a stock MVS shell?)

thanks!

NeoKuroyume
10-18-2016, 03:31 PM
Looking forward to this. Great alternative to multicarts. Will be much easier to take to friends houses when we do game night instead of just picking out a few titles to bring. Keep up the good work!!

Xian Xi
10-18-2016, 03:36 PM
Most flash carts don't cost $400+... i would expect a better looking UI for the cost of this thing, than what a 160-in-1 cart looks like.

Exactly. It looks to function well but Neo is all about presentation. We all want something that looks VERY polished. If UI can be changed easily then they need to address it if everything else works 100%. The UI screams NCI to me. Also if there was any way to add "scanlines" it might be a good feature to have, overlay maybe.

neosd
10-18-2016, 03:38 PM
About the shells, any comment about the AES-style for an MVS cart?

I guess an MVS-style cart and horizontal label space would have been consistent!

(..btw, for "purists" would the pcb fit in a stock MVS shell?)

thanks!

Yes, it fits on original MVS cart case, it hooks strong also, enven the pcbs are not full size (like the original ones). You will need to make an small cut on the side of the cartridge to allow microsd access from the outside.

Also everying is built in Europe with European quality standarts.

opt2not
10-18-2016, 03:42 PM
Also everying is built in Europe with European quality standarts.

Except the UI. ;) :D

Tripredacus
10-18-2016, 03:50 PM
39956

Its a cool logo for sure. Hopefully the actual gizmo is just as cool.

Razoola
10-18-2016, 03:53 PM
In relation to the NeoGeo, presentation is everything so the UI could be better, that said however I have seen alot worse UI's on some devices. Its clear though the device can be updated so that means so can the UI. As a release spec the UI does do what it needs to which is the main thing I guess. I suspect redoing the UI at the moment is low on their list but once people have the cart in their hands things may be different.

massimiliano
10-18-2016, 03:54 PM
Yes, it fits on original MVS cart case, it hooks strong also, enven the pcbs are not full size (like the original ones). You will need to make an small cut on the side of the cartridge to allow microsd access from the outside.

Also everying is built in Europe with European quality standarts.

Cool, that's *perfect*....is the cut needed only to insert/remove the card or does the SD goes a bit outside of the shell? ..developers aside, probably after putting all the files, there won't be need to access the SD so often..

Anyway, sounds like everybody will be happy..way to go!

Xian Xi
10-18-2016, 03:57 PM
I'm willing to buy a few units to have in my store if the UI is improved. How about you guys use Raz's UI and compensate him for it?

Rot
10-18-2016, 04:01 PM
I'm willing to buy a few units to have in my store if the UI is improved. How about you guys use Raz's UI and compensate him for it?

^^^^This....

I like this plan... neosd... you have the product... Razoola has the User Interface and knowledge of the Bios features...

I'd actually consider a co-operative measure here....

xROTx

aku
10-18-2016, 04:12 PM
a coop with raz would be perfect, perfect, fckn perfect! Awesome hardware, awesome gui - perfect product for the neo scene...#1 forever....

Kid Panda
10-18-2016, 04:33 PM
I would prefer the cart price to stay at what it is.

Rot
10-18-2016, 04:40 PM
I would prefer the cart price to stay at what it is.

It's OK... i'm getting a discount otherwise i'm banning Razoola and neosd...

.../flex...

xROTx

PS. On Topic... this thread has been raised to Rot level 3... aka... I'll keep my eye on it... excessive dumbness won't be tolerated...

EDIT: I've never reached level 10 yet... I think that is a scorched Earth type affair...

EXTRA EDIT: Fuck Darksoft... I'd happily ban him again if I hadn't already...

EXTRA EXTRA EDIT: Any lurking Darksoft supporters?... please raise a hand... err... I'm giving out fr33 sweeties...

Razoola
10-18-2016, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the support guys, I'm not sure what to say, I'm just so happy you think the NeoGeo Land UI is so good given in reality I quickly knocked it up. Its nice to hear the vision is on the mark.

For me its clear that these guys know what they are doing so I want to be careful with how I say this. These guys have got to where they have with no help from myself. Its clear to me at least they have experiance in areas I do not so the reality is do they really need any advice from me? That said I have my areas of skill and vision also.

I have offered my help directly in relation to the UI if they require it and I am open to working with them going forward. At the moment though I think it would be good to keep NeoGeo Land it its own thread and NeoSD here. I think they will get the message about the UI without being pressered into it.

hyper
10-18-2016, 04:48 PM
yea NeoGeo land is excellent
would be cool if u guys worked something out & got it working in the neosd

i got $5 on it

wyo
10-18-2016, 04:53 PM
Why do people care about the interface?!? Basic Everdrive style list of folders/games works fine.

Sounds like the effort was put into functionality, which should be applauded. If it bothers you, go watch Raz's video right before playing a game.

Tw3ek
10-18-2016, 04:55 PM
Why do people care about the interface?!? Basic Everdrive style list of folders/games works fine.

Sounds like the effort was put into functionality, which should be applauded. If it bothers you, go watch Raz's video right before playing a game.

Why do people care about a boxed Mega CD?!? Basic Mega CD console works just fine.

Different strokes for different folks.

Rot
10-18-2016, 05:04 PM
Why do people care about the interface?!? Basic Everdrive style list of folders/games works fine.

Sounds like the effort was put into functionality, which should be applauded. If it bothers you, go watch Raz's video right before playing a game.

I care for the best product... why make a half assed product when... with a bit of effort... you can make a better customer experience...

...It's like asking "Why do I go to a strip joint and not get a bareback..."

xROTx

skate323k137
10-18-2016, 05:06 PM
I care for the best product... why make a half assed product when... with a bit of effort... you can make a better customer experience...

...It's like asking "Why do I go to a strip joint and not get a bareback..."

xROTx

More like going to an amazing strip club and complaining that the bouncer was kind of a dick on your way in.

This sounds like a great project... staying tuned.

Neodogg
10-18-2016, 05:06 PM
I care for the best product... why make a half assed product when... with a bit of effort... you can make a better customer experience...

...It's like asking "Why do I go to a strip joint and not get a bareback..."

xROTx

? Bareback? :)

I think that means something different over here, so you're a bottom Rot? :)

OT- looks great so far, don't really care how the UI is as long as it works as it should

Rot
10-18-2016, 05:10 PM
? Bareback? :)

I think that means something different over here, so you're a bottom Rot? :)

Heh... silly Neo_Poochie...

xROTx

opt2not
10-18-2016, 05:16 PM
Incoming controversial questions:

How will this flash cart handle hacked games, is this supported?
What about the NG DEV.TEAM releases?

retro
10-18-2016, 05:36 PM
So, to be clear, will there be an AES version ?

hyper
10-18-2016, 05:40 PM
Razoolas neogeo land is great, why wouldn't you want that as an interface?

I think neosd stated that they don't want to make any promises until any additional projects & working designs are complete

Dahun72
10-18-2016, 05:46 PM
I love to tinker as much as the next guy and I'm intrigued by this. But something is amiss - perhaps the price, perhaps the load times changing games.... Not sure. Maybe coz we have the 161 carts, they should just do 1 fighting game cat and 1 others cart and bam you wouldn't need anything else.
I'll check it out further when it's actually out. Until then I'll go about my business collecting carts.
Great work from the developers, well done.

wyo
10-18-2016, 05:46 PM
Why do people care about a boxed Mega CD?!? Basic Mega CD console works just fine.

Different strokes for different folks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9KQQrNDawM

gusmoney
10-18-2016, 06:10 PM
EXTRA EXTRA EDIT: Any lurking Darksoft supporters?... please raise a hand... err... I'm giving out fr33 sweeties...

I've supported Darksoft when I bought his excellent CPS2 Multikit.

I've supported Razoola when I bought his excellent Unibios.

I don't lurk though. Is that cool?

GohanX
10-18-2016, 06:17 PM
EXTRA EXTRA EDIT: Any lurking Darksoft supporters?... please raise a hand... err... I'm giving out fr33 sweeties...

I do love my CPS2 multi!

fenikso
10-18-2016, 09:52 PM
So, to be clear, will there be an AES version ?

I asked and it was a no go.

lions3
10-18-2016, 09:53 PM
For those commenting about the GUI: Function over form. First you build the guts and make it work. Get the engine right. Only then do you worry about painting the body. I don't want a Ford Pinto. No matter how pretty you paint it.

So i'm happy to hear they're worried about getting it functioning right first.

Personally, I'll sit this one out. I'll save and buy one if the feedback from the forum is great. But the $ is too high for me to touch unless it's proven. Anyone remember how excited the forum was about NeoGeoX. Yeah. Take a deep breath guys. If it's all it's promised to be it'll be around for a while.

Day_Man
10-18-2016, 10:28 PM
Cant wait to see reviews from some members. This product looks great.

Craig
10-18-2016, 10:44 PM
I'm also in the camp that UI seems kind of irrelevant...

I want to play games, not look at a menu all day...

Juju_37700
10-18-2016, 11:02 PM
Cool! Can't wait to see feed back and order one as soon as possible. I'm really glad that some people works on that king of device for the Neo Geo. Good job !! :P

Gyrian
10-19-2016, 12:21 AM
Looking better and better as we go!
Appreciate NEOSD coming by to address questions, and of course Raz helping with due diligence.

My 2 cents on the interface conversation: no contest on functionality coming first, besides one could always upgrade later and NEOSD certainly does appear to want to continue building and iterating upon this. With that said, Raz' work on Neo Geo Land goes far beyond (an admittedly gorgeous) front end. Truly impressive software with a thorough feature set previously unseen on the Neo. Could this multi-cart also handle a multi-slot simulation, as long as the games fit within the onboard flash? What a treat it would be to see this added down the road.

Razoola
10-19-2016, 02:44 AM
Let's let these guys do their thing in peace for now so to speak in relation to the UI. They have said the device is updateable so to me that says there is no rush for them to change the UI at this point so close to releasing something. Think about it, some change like that could push back the release date.

neosd
10-19-2016, 04:46 AM
Hi

Based on Razoolaīs questions, we have uploaded a video proving that once a game is flashed, it passes unibios crc checks, so for the neo geo it acts as an original game.

Any coments, improvments are welcome guys.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gycQTSw00U

Big thanks for the feedback

EDIT :

Changed the video as rom was not copied properlly to sd card

39979

Thanks

retro
10-19-2016, 04:49 AM
I think the UI is perfectly fine. Sure it doesn't look like a 90s cracktro and doesnt have a chiptune but i honestly couldn't care less. It's not everdrive-barebones either.

Rot
10-19-2016, 05:11 AM
It looks nice so far... Functional...

Approx 4 minute load for large megage game is ok...

xROTx

PS. The Raz bios is upto 3.3 btw;)

Razoola
10-19-2016, 05:37 AM
I'm gonna drop you a PM now about the NG bank, the main thing is the main ROM region passes, this is the one that would fail if your patching out protections.

FilthyRear
10-19-2016, 05:44 AM
Approx 4 minute load for large megage game is ok...


OMG.

I'll stick with multicarts for now, then.

This is WAY too expensive to wait 4 minutes for a game to load.

Rot
10-19-2016, 05:51 AM
OMG.

I'll stick with multicarts for now, then.

This is WAY too expensive to wait 4 minutes for a game to load.

Hah... it's all ok Titties...

Tak sometimes waits 45 minutes for a C64 game to load... I base all my load times on the shit he uses...

He uses hardware that is older than Jesus...

xROTx

FilthyRear
10-19-2016, 05:54 AM
Hah... it's all ok Titties...

Tak sometimes waits 45 minutes for a C64 game to load... I base all my load times on the shit he uses...

He uses hardware that is older than Jesus...

xROTx

We had 2 disc drives for our C64. We weren't commoners that had cassette drives. :oh_no:

Rot
10-19-2016, 05:59 AM
We had 2 disc drives for our C64. We weren't commoners that had cassette drives. :oh_no:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGonRkSiwb0

COME ON... how can you not love the sound of a tape loading on the C64?

It's AWESOME!!!

xROTx

PS. Tries to find ring tone and use it in my iphone...

ckchan
10-19-2016, 06:35 AM
What is the expected life cycle for this type of flash memory?

100,000 or 1,000,000 or?

neosd
10-19-2016, 06:53 AM
The manufacturer states that the bigger flashes support 100000 erase cycles, thst means that you can switch games 100000 times before it wearing out.
Supposing that you flash 10 games each day, you'll get a lifespan of 30 years. If you just play the same game over and over, it will last forever (flash-wise)

Also, we have updated the kof2003 unibios video, it was an usb copy fault !!!

Thanks


What is the expected life cycle for this type of flash memory?

100,000 or 1,000,000 or?

Nostromo
10-19-2016, 07:54 AM
Hi Neosd,

I have a few questions please :)

1. Does your store accept Paypal?
2. Are these shipping already?
3. Can I put the PCBs in a normal MVS case?
4. Which country do you ship from?
5. Is the PCB picky about the make of the SD Card?

Thanks!

AJtheMishima
10-19-2016, 08:02 AM
so the load times i saw were slow on a lower end memory card, how much of an decrease in time will be expected on a nice card?
This seems to be pretty cool option. I will have to read more about these, at work so cant read as much as i would like.

Reclaimer
10-19-2016, 08:18 AM
Pretty cool! I wonder how competing flash carts will compare, but this is a solid start! I'll wait on it for now, but interested.

neosd
10-19-2016, 08:21 AM
I will try to answer your questions :


1. Does your store accept Paypal?

No, we are a company and have a contract with largest spanish bank BBVA. We use theyr payment system, they process the whole payment, not us. So we dont store any credit card info at our servers, neither we have access to that information. We dont use paypal to avoid fees, this would increase the price of the device.

2. Are these shipping already?
Still not, shipping will be in 3 weeks from yesterday, carts are on production right now, this not exactly a preorder cause the bach is being manufactured no matters how many units we sell, if we sell the first batch we will make more, else there will be only one batch out (the one that is being manufactured right now), same thing applies to plastic cases.


3. Can I put the PCBs in a normal MVS case?

Yes, but you have to cut an small piece of plastic on one side of the case to allow sd card access from the outside of the case.

4. Which country do you ship from?

Spain

5. Is the PCB picky about the make of the SD Card?
Its not, neither with the class of the SD card.

Thanks !



Hi Neosd,

I have a few questions please :)

1. Does your store accept Paypal?
2. Are these shipping already?
3. Can I put the PCBs in a normal MVS case?
4. Which country do you ship from?
5. Is the PCB picky about the make of the SD Card?

Thanks!

Nostromo
10-19-2016, 08:40 AM
Awesome thanks =)

Jon
10-19-2016, 08:58 AM
What is the deal with the flash process cycling back and forth between erasing and flashing? This is the first Everdrive-like flash device I've ever seen do that. Granted, I don't understand what is happening while it's occurring.

Also, the loading times sounded terrible, at first, but, after seeing it in action, it's actually pretty close to the Darksoft CPS2 thing...provided it's not something huge.

Jon

DaytimeDreamer
10-19-2016, 09:21 AM
Awesome updates for the Neo scene. I'll be getting one. Some more questions:

1) Will this work on a 2slot/4slot/6slot board?
2) Will you be stocking the cart shells anytime soon? I can see they are out of stock. Would rather buy one from you with the SD cart slot ready instead of chopping one of mine.
3) What's the process in order to save the highscore for each game? I.e. when I flash a new game to the cart is the previous one automatically backed up to the SD cart with the high score or am I missing something here?
4) Do all games work without audio or any glitches at all?

Thanks.

ginoscope
10-19-2016, 09:22 AM
What is the deal with the flash process cycling back and forth between erasing and flashing? This is the first Everdrive-like flash device I've ever seen do that. Granted, I don't understand what is happening while it's occurring.

Also, the loading times sounded terrible, at first, but, after seeing it in action, it's actually pretty close to the Darksoft CPS2 thing...provided it's not something huge.

Jon

I have a super everdrive for my snes and it works exactly the same way but of course way simpler. It erases the flash chips and then flashes the new game onto the chips. Of course it does not take 4 minutes since snes games are much smaller but it's the same concept that they seem to be using.

I am very impressed by this device I am definitely interested in picking one up soon.

lherre
10-19-2016, 09:32 AM
What is the deal with the flash process cycling back and forth between erasing and flashing? This is the first Everdrive-like flash device I've ever seen do that. Granted, I don't understand what is happening while it's occurring.

Also, the loading times sounded terrible, at first, but, after seeing it in action, it's actually pretty close to the Darksoft CPS2 thing...provided it's not something huge.

Jon

Because it erases and flashes the memory banks separatelly. But I think we will have a better (and technical) explanation about it.

AJtheMishima
10-19-2016, 09:36 AM
im very interested but as with anything, i will wait for the first couple of waves to be shipped and used before i dive in.

NeoTurfMasta
10-19-2016, 09:42 AM
What's the process in order to save the highscore for each game? I.e. when I flash a new game to the cart is the previous one automatically backed up to the SD cart with the high score or am I missing something here?



Where did you see that it saves high scores? I'm not seeing anything on their site about it.

gusmoney
10-19-2016, 09:47 AM
Where did you see that it saves high scores? I'm not seeing anything on their site about it.


Thats the plan : we want that people to be able to store all backup ram data from each game into sd card, so when you load a different game, you dont loose your high scores or dip switch configurations if the bios decides to remove your game from backup ram.

This feature is not in the list, cause right now only the ARM part of this feature is coded and working, we are missing the actual reading of the backup data, its only a matter of time, we will anounce it and show it once its done.

Thanks

I think the above quote is where it is sourced from NTM.

DaytimeDreamer
10-19-2016, 09:47 AM
Thats the plan : we want that people to be able to store all backup ram data from each game into sd card, so when you load a different game, you dont loose your high scores or dip switch configurations if the bios decides to remove your game from backup ram.

This feature is not in the list, cause right now only the ARM part of this feature is coded and working, we are missing the actual reading of the backup data, its only a matter of time, we will anounce it and show it once its done.

Thanks


Where did you see that it saves high scores? I'm not seeing anything on their site about it.

It's not supported as of now but probably when they launch the product? Or in the near future? I.e. some months after that?

Edit: gusmoney beat me to it :D

NeoTurfMasta
10-19-2016, 09:49 AM
I think the above quote is where it is sourced from NTM.

That kicks ass! Thanks, I missed that post.

neosd
10-19-2016, 09:56 AM
It's not supported as of now but probably when they launch the product? Or in the near future? I.e. some months after that?

Edit: gusmoney beat me to it :D

Estimated schedule for this function (save high scores on sd for each game) is DAYS, as today.

Thanks !

DaytimeDreamer
10-19-2016, 10:08 AM
That kicks ass! Thanks, I missed that post.

Indeed this is great.


Estimated schedule for this function (save high scores on sd for each game) is DAYS, as today.

Thanks !

Very very cool. Any idea what is the maximun number of saves for each game?

aha2940
10-19-2016, 10:16 AM
This is definitely a step in the right direction, however I think I will wait and see how it compares to the other option(s?) when they become available. Also, to see how this neosd progresses and what happens with the GUI created by Raz. I like to have my options clear when making a choice like this. Just a question from me: will these carts get on a limited edition? or are they planned to be available for a long time?

Thanks!!

DaytimeDreamer
10-19-2016, 10:23 AM
This is definitely a step in the right direction, however I think I will wait and see how it compares to the other option(s?) when they become available. Also, to see how this neosd progresses and what happens with the GUI created by Raz. I like to have my options clear when making a choice like this. Just a question from me: will these carts get on a limited edition? or are they planned to be available for a long time?

Thanks!!


I will try to answer your questions :

2. Are these shipping already?
Still not, shipping will be in 3 weeks from yesterday, carts are on production right now, this not exactly a preorder cause the bach is being manufactured no matters how many units we sell, if we sell the first batch we will make more, else there will be only one batch out (the one that is being manufactured right now), same thing applies to plastic cases.

Thanks !

I guess it depends on how the first batch goes.

aha2940
10-19-2016, 10:42 AM
I guess it depends on how the first batch goes.

Good info. Thanks!

oliverclaude
10-19-2016, 10:44 AM
May we live in interesting times, indeed. One of the last strongholds is about to be charged... and I really like the "out of the blue" conception.

SNK_Pro
10-19-2016, 10:49 AM
Nice for someone new to appear with an actual functioning product instead of months (years?) of rumours, misleading info and needless drama. Like others I'd rather hold out in the hope of a Razoola created option, though a collaboration here would be immense I feel.

neosd
10-19-2016, 10:50 AM
Good info. Thanks!

Remember : we built flashcarts, but this started because we wanted one for ourselves.

!

fluxcore
10-19-2016, 11:50 AM
We had 2 disc drives for our C64. We weren't commoners that had cassette drives. :oh_no:

I just got given a C64 and a C128 by a work colleague, and bought an SD card replacement for a 1541 disk drive (after trying to clean the disk drives and still having difficulties I just gave up with that whole mess). I thought load times were still kinda crap, then I plugged in his Epyx Fastloader - makes a hell of a difference!

Rot
10-19-2016, 12:04 PM
I am glad this is staying on Topic...

I am glad neosd is answering the questions...

I am glad for the lack of drama...

I am glad that you fooks are playing nice...

I am glad... because I feel shitty atm... and well... it's for the best that I have stress free few weeks...

xROTx

Lemony Vengeance
10-19-2016, 01:34 PM
I feel shitty atm... and well... it's for the best that I have stress free few weeks...

xROTx

Get some rest, Rot. FWIW, you're in my prayers.

On topic:
Things are remaining surprisingly civil here (which is HIGHLY unusual) and I dig it.

Razoola
10-19-2016, 02:33 PM
I know what you mean Lemony. It kind of feels like the last hand in a game of no limit poker. One player is holding pocket rockets and goes all in, the other player calls with 10 / ace spades and hits three spades on the flop.

Montatez
10-19-2016, 03:14 PM
I know what you mean Lemony. It kind of feels like the last hand in a game of no limit poker. One player is holding pocket rockets and goes all in, the other player calls with 10 / ace spades and hits three spades on the flop.

:keke:

I like the looks, and I like the sounds of this device but I agree going to hold out for now and wait and see how the initial run does. Get some feedback before I need another multi.

Still kudos guys.

Rot
10-19-2016, 03:19 PM
Here's my thoughts...

It's expensive... but this is NG.com... the home of the crazy "too much money over common sense... brigade..."

...A suggestion neosd... MAYBE you should send one too a reliable member for a testing and written review... NOT FREE of charge... I will guarantee payment if needed...

This is ONLY a suggestion... I assume Razoola will buy one so I'd suggest him... his rep is as good as anyone...

UPTO you tho...

xROTx

Rot
10-19-2016, 03:30 PM
OK LADS...

Thank you for your patience... Razoola will recieve one of the first devices...

He will write a review for you guys... I trust that this is OK for you all?

xROTx

GohanX
10-19-2016, 03:35 PM
That's not OK at all. I think I should get the review copy.

:keke:

Rot
10-19-2016, 03:36 PM
That's not OK at all. I think I should get the review copy.

:keke:

The only issue with that is I've seen you type letters...

You can't even spell your name correctly... WORSE... you don't use enough ellipses...

xROTx

PS. DRUG'Z are for WINNARZ!

Montatez
10-19-2016, 03:41 PM
OK LADS...

Thank you for your patience... Razoola will recieve one of the first devices...

He will write a review for you guys... I trust that this is OK for you all?

xROTx

WOOO! OK I wish you luck Razoola.

GohanX
10-19-2016, 03:43 PM
...

Razoola
10-19-2016, 04:08 PM
Yup, I can confirm arrangements are being made to get me one sent next week so I can test and let you guys know about it, how it works and I guess most of all, is this all legit and not some kind of VCR trickery one would expect from say NGF. Personally at the moment, based on what I have seen, what NeoSD has said and the videos, there is nothing to make me doubt.

If there is anything specifically you want me to try I will so make some suggestions here. I guess some things suggested may warrent NeoSD to make videos even before I get the board (like he did today with kof2003 crc pass video).

Raz

NeoTurfMasta
10-19-2016, 04:34 PM
I'm being selfish here, but I'd like to see DarkSeed loaded on it.

DaytimeDreamer
10-19-2016, 04:35 PM
Usually things in the Neo scene go really slow. This on the other hand is doing great.

39989

Rot
10-19-2016, 04:56 PM
I sorta trust Raz's judgement... BUT I would like to know how it handles the whole spectrum of games in the library... protos, homebrews.... etc etc...

Also... the memory save feature...

How it is flexible enough for upgrades to fix bugs... or will we have to wait for a new revision of the board... (I am making this point because the price point is HIGH... I admit it...)

It's all very fun:D

xROTx

PS. What I like about this project so far... is that I can work with neosd... he has been ameniable... unlike some folks I could mention...

I DO Understand that it is a 2 way street... I get what I want... which is something for the community that is transparent... for which they get the benefit of the doubt... (which leads to a stress free thread...)

EDIT: Eventually... I will want to know who the team really are... This is for my own peace of mind amongst other reasons (I am not pushing it now... but I am just sayin'... I will ultimately want to know....)

AMike
10-19-2016, 05:00 PM
Does the Flashcard work with the MVS Convertor?

sent from mobile device

Montatez
10-19-2016, 05:00 PM
Eventually... I will want to know who the team really are... This is for my own peace of mind amongst other reasons (I am not pushing it now... but I am just sayin'... I will ultimately want to know....)

The question that popped into my head as well.

IrishNinja
10-19-2016, 05:27 PM
watching this one with cautious optimism! really looking forward to Raz's impressions


Does the Flashcard work with the MVS Convertor?

sent from mobile device

also wondering this myself

juanjuan
10-19-2016, 05:37 PM
I love the future. The future is now.

This is truly fantastic news!

hyper
10-19-2016, 06:18 PM
Yup, I can confirm arrangements are being made to get me one sent next week so I can test and let you guys know about it, how it works and I guess most of all, is this all legit and not some kind of VCR trickery one would expect from say NGF.http://i.imgur.com/GY2IoDN.jpg

GadgetUK
10-19-2016, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't mind knowing if Pochi & Nyaa works on it!

CORY
10-19-2016, 07:21 PM
http://i.imgur.com/GY2IoDN.jpg

:keke:

fenikso
10-19-2016, 10:21 PM
This thread continues to deliver. If this passes Raz's scrutiny I may not be able to make myself hold off buying.

Montatez
10-19-2016, 10:33 PM
This thread continues to deliver. If this passes Raz's scrutiny I may not be able to make myself hold off buying.

I agree, but would feel like a traitor to Raz...

fenikso
10-19-2016, 10:42 PM
I agree, but would feel like a traitor to Raz...

Meh, these guys aren't doing an AES version (at least, not at this time). If Raz's project comes to fruition I'll happily buy his for the home console.

You can always sell it off when the time comes, too.

lions3
10-19-2016, 11:24 PM
They didn't say they WON'T make an AES cart. It's a lot of overhead to order PCB's for hundreds(?) of boards. If they did AES with the first run they would effectively double their cost AND risk. Also trying to bug fix issues with one product is better than juggling two.
.
.
.
.
Plus AES is a little more tricky. As one of the chips included on a MVS motherboard is intentionally missing on an AES. So each AES game has it included (can't think of the chip name). Plus they aren't making them any more. So you know those MVS to AES converters? They either had to clone the chip or sack a MVS motherboard (or AES cart).... let's hope these NEOSD guys find a way to clone the chip WHEN they make AES carts :D

CORY
10-19-2016, 11:42 PM
Eventually... I will want to know who the team really are... This is for my own peace of mind amongst other reasons (I am not pushing it now... but I am just sayin'... I will ultimately want to know....)

http://i.imgur.com/UKnJs0p.gif

ki_atsushi
10-20-2016, 12:56 AM
If an AES version is made, this would totally get me back into Neo. Just saying.

Looking good guys, fuck the UI haters and K.I.S.S. :p

Razoola
10-20-2016, 02:04 AM
Obviously I will not be testing every single game. However given that you can place all neogeo games (including bootlegs) into around 10 seperate boxes of the way they use the hardware (or extras they contain on the PROG/CHA PCBs). I will make sure I test at least one game from each of these boxes. I will also try darkseed for you NTM :) . Apart from that I will be of couse giving a verddict on the UI and overall experiance and ROM conversion process etc.

Given my unique prospective of NeoGeo hardware I am aware of a few cases where some games may not work as expected given the way flashcarts work (or features they include work ) against some checks these games use. These are not currently documented either in the MAME source or the NeoGeoDev WIKI simply because these checks do not trigger under normal emulation on a stock NeoGeo.

Ren-chan
10-20-2016, 02:58 AM
Raz, will you be able to try if this cart works on AES using a MVS converter? That would be really appreciated.

Razoola
10-20-2016, 03:25 AM
Raz, will you be able to try if this cart works on AES using a MVS converter? That would be really appreciated.

This I cannot really try unless someone sends me an AES and a converter. Well I do know people in Helsinki region with AES and I do have a green magickey somewhere (I'm sure I do actually). So In theory I can maybe pull it off. I think I can say already with certinity however that it will not work on a magickey unless its button is held down at power on on the converter. With the button held down I don't know, maybe it will work, maybe not.

Razoola
10-20-2016, 03:27 AM
I wouldn't mind knowing if Pochi & Nyaa works on it!

that is one game I would test.

oliverclaude
10-20-2016, 03:29 AM
I trust that this is OK for you all?

xROTx

...and then some, I love reviews and this future one could become sticky material.

Ren-chan
10-20-2016, 03:47 AM
This I cannot really try unless someone sends me and AES and a converter. Well I do know people in Helsinki region with AES and I do have a green magickey somewhere (Im sure I do actually). So In theory I can maybe pull it off. I think I can say already with certinity however that it will not work on a magickey unless its button is held down at power on on the converter. With the button held down I don't know, maybe it will work, maybe not.

Ouch! I have no problem on shipping you a converter but... an AES would be pricey :S

Razoola
10-20-2016, 03:56 AM
What we need to remember is that this is something for MVS so testing on MVS will be the priority over everything else.

neosd
10-20-2016, 04:56 AM
About MVS to AES convertes :

We havent tested it, and this an honest answer, not something to avoid answering the question, neither to avoid saying it dosent works, we donīt know if those will work at all, we have enought work trying the flashcart with all games in all different boards, believe me.


Thanks

BerryTogart
10-20-2016, 05:48 AM
This I cannot really try unless someone sends me an AES and a converter. Well I do know people in Helsinki region with AES and I do have a green magickey somewhere (I'm sure I do actually). So In theory I can maybe pull it off. I think I can say already with certinity however that it will not work on a magickey unless its button is held down at power on on the converter. With the button held down I don't know, maybe it will work, maybe not.

Do it for the team Rob!
In addition: oh my - if Raz confirms this as legit this would be a major help for the fighting game quest :)

GadgetUK
10-20-2016, 06:11 AM
that is one game I would test.
Thanks =D

I would like to order one of these but I am still kind of sceptical (call me paranoid) that it actually exists. The pictures, videos and photos etc seem to suggest that it does exist and does what it says it does, but it's a little strange that none of us heard anything until a day or two ago. Will see how you get on with the one they send you and if all is good I will order one =D

Lemony Vengeance
10-20-2016, 06:44 AM
it's a little strange that none of us heard anything until a day or two ago. Will see how you get on with the one they send you and if all is good I will order one =D

same here. It would be nice to have a side by side review of this and the other solution coming to the market once it's out

lherre
10-20-2016, 07:13 AM
Thanks =D

I would like to order one of these but I am still kind of sceptical (call me paranoid) that it actually exists. The pictures, videos and photos etc seem to suggest that it does exist and does what it says it does, but it's a little strange that none of us heard anything until a day or two ago. Will see how you get on with the one they send you and if all is good I will order one =D

Vgleaks has a good record of trust. The review is mostly legit. But we will have the ultimate trust once raz test it.

aha2940
10-20-2016, 02:09 PM
I would feel more comfortable if the cart contained something to stop it from running currently produced games. It would not be nice to see people running Knight's Chance or something like that on it (unless Jeff is cool with that, of course). I know only Last Hope have been dumped, and the rest of current games have protections, but LH was shown to be working, and that does not seem right IMHO.

Regards.

Razoola
10-20-2016, 02:23 PM
If you read the specs there is not space in the flash for the later NGdev games and I doubt it has the required ram allocations for knights chance.

Razoola
10-20-2016, 02:29 PM
same here. It would be nice to have a side by side review of this and the other solution coming to the market once it's out

I'm sure that will happen because people will probably have this before darksofts is out if every thing is legit

munchiaz
10-20-2016, 02:41 PM
Exciting stuff indeed. Looking forward to your overview Raz

Tacitus
10-20-2016, 03:00 PM
I'd rather keep my money in the community, but this is pretty awesome.

I'll wait until I see the other one.

aha2940
10-20-2016, 03:05 PM
If you read the specs there is not space in the flash for the later NGdev games and I doubt it has the required ram allocations for knights chance.

Sure, I just checked and Razion, Kraut busters and Fast Striker do not fit inside the cart's memory, so they would not be playable. However it seems Last Hope, Gunlord, Pink Bullets and Knight's Chance fit inside the memory. No clue about Neo XYX, I could not find their Megabit count. However my concern is more with the ethical side of the cart, that does not seem to actively block these games from running.

Regards.

Rot
10-20-2016, 03:07 PM
I'd rather keep my money in the community, but this is pretty awesome.

Here's the THINGY... Darksoft is going apeshit on his forum... claiming these guys have stolen some of his code...


I'll wait until I see the other one.

I would suggest... that these guys maybe the guys involved with the Darksoft project... and could be a breakaway faction...

xROTx

PS. It is all speculation... but until these guys give me the info I need... this will hang over them...

Montatez
10-20-2016, 03:20 PM
Here's the THINGY... Darksoft is going apeshit on his forum... claiming these guys have stolen some of his code...



I would suggest... that these guys maybe the guys involved with the Darksoft project... and could be a breakaway faction...

xROTx

PS. It is all speculation... but until these guys give me the info I need... this will hang over them...

Crazy... Would you want to post a link to that?

Razoola
10-20-2016, 03:21 PM
Sure, I just checked and Razion, Kraut busters and Fast Striker do not fit inside the cart's memory, so they would not be playable. However it seems Last Hope, Gunlord, Pink Bullets and Knight's Chance fit inside the memory. No clue about Neo XYX, I could not find their Megabit count. However my concern is more with the ethical side of the cart, that does not seem to actively block these games from running.

Regards.

they all have protections as you know.

Tacitus
10-20-2016, 03:41 PM
Here's the THINGY... Darksoft is going apeshit on his forum... claiming these guys have stolen some of his code...



I would suggest... that these guys maybe the guys involved with the Darksoft project... and could be a breakaway faction...

xROTx

PS. It is all speculation... but until these guys give me the info I need... this will hang over them...


Money does funny things to people.

On the other hand, providing gray-market wares and claiming theft is very duplicitous.

I like Darksoft, even after everything that has happened.

I'd prefer to give my money to him and his products have never failed me.

legolas119
10-20-2016, 03:49 PM
it seems good, but really expensive...and loading times...are high...4 o 5 minutes for the bigger games ?
And do you know for how many times it is possible to erase and write the memory?

opt2not
10-20-2016, 03:57 PM
So what's the history behind this guy named Serantes?

Syn
10-20-2016, 04:57 PM
it seems good, but really expensive...and loading times...are high...4 o 5 minutes for the bigger games ?
And do you know for how many times it is possible to erase and write the memory?

100000 was the number mentioned earlier. EDIT Post#117

aha2940
10-20-2016, 05:37 PM
So what's the history behind this guy named Serantes?

It seems the guy is known by Darksoft. He says the guy has some shady past, and told about other reputable members of his forum that can verify his affirmations. I try not to be biased, because I have not seen any hard evidence, but DS has a reputation and has released and supported high-quality (IMHO) products in the past, while this Sarantes guy seems to come out of nowhere with a multicart. Just my opinion.


they all have protections as you know.

Except for Last Hope, yes. I wonder if NGDev are OK with Last Hope running on this multi, even if it's a 6 year old game.

Regards.

nornor1
10-20-2016, 05:41 PM
This is awesome. Can't wait to see how this plays out. Im sure it works just fine.

Kid Panda
10-20-2016, 05:46 PM
....Except for Last Hope, yes. I wonder if NGDev are OK with Last Hope running on this multi, even if it's a 6 year old game......


When Stefano was making boot carts/kits and selling them on ebay, they were very upset but had zero legal recourse from what they told me. It's funny, after I brought it up he acted like "Oh I had no idea, I feel so bad", fuck that guy. Hence why all their newer games have heavy protection. They have accepted the loss of Last Hope and are moving forward.

Rot
10-20-2016, 05:51 PM
Lads... I facilitate projects like this... on a project to project basis...

I do not guarantee what the products are like... that is why I wanted Raz to try out this and "road test" it for us...

neosd has been open with me... via PM and hence, I have insulated this project...

My advice is to wait on the Raz verdict...

xROTx

PS. I am tired... my brain hurts along with the rest of me.. let's just give the speculation a break.... and wait...

EDIT: neosd... there still remains the fact that I will want to know who you guys.... best talk to your team. and PM me... because I cannot hold off the forum forever... and after the 24 hours I just had... I'm in a semi-crappy mood...

aoiddr
10-20-2016, 05:52 PM
When Stefano was making boot carts/kits and selling them on ebay, they were very upset but had zero legal recourse from what they told me. It's funny, after I brought it up he acted like "Oh I had no idea, I feel so bad", fuck that guy. Hence why all their newer games have heavy protection. They have accepted the loss of Last Hope and are moving forward.

Is the Last Hope rom actually a rip of the NGDev MVS cart, or is it some type of hacked CD->MVS reconversion?

Kid Panda
10-20-2016, 06:00 PM
Is the Last Hope rom actually a rip of the NGDev MVS cart, or is it some type of hacked CD->MVS reconversion?



It is the MVS cart rom. There was zero protection on the roms themselves. I talked at length with them and they said it was unfortunate but they learned from the experience.

Razoola
10-20-2016, 06:33 PM
It seems the guy is known by Darksoft. He says the guy has some shady past, and told about other reputable members of his forum that can verify his affirmations. I try not to be biased, because I have not seen any hard evidence, but DS has a reputation and has released and supported high-quality (IMHO) products in the past, while this Sarantes guy seems to come out of nowhere with a multicart. Just my opinion.



How is darksoft going to stop people running lasthope on his multicart? Is it going to be the same way he stopped the phoenix ROMs? The other NGdev games and Knights Chance are not going to work on this flashcart because they are protected and from the talk I have had with NeoSD it seems they have planes that people don't know about yet.

Regarding the quality of darksofts projects, this is where its going to get intresting because I believe this will be the first time he has had to compete against something in the same space. Its hard to say what high quality is though if you don't have something to compare against or don't have an eye for what a quality product should be. It sure is a surprise that this cart has turned up like it has and when it has, I was shocked when I saw the first post. Going on the posts of NeoSD so far here, I would personally say it +1 for neosd because he is to the point with no hype, with facts. There is no playing with words to play on peoples imaginations to give them impressions beyound the reality. Of course he could turn out to me a con man but given he will be sending a device to me next week everyone will soon know.

I would say though that if ds does know him as suggested earlier, it more means this is the real deal than something else given the apparent panic.

hyper
10-20-2016, 07:02 PM
When Stefano was making boot carts/kits and selling them on ebay, they were very upset but had zero legal recourse from what they told me. It's funny, after I brought it up he acted like "Oh I had no idea, I feel so bad", fuck that guy. Hence why all their newer games have heavy protection. They have accepted the loss of Last Hope and are moving forward.Holy shit yea I forgot about that :keke:

didn't see that coming

DaytimeDreamer
10-20-2016, 07:12 PM
So has this device been shipped to Raz already or not? When can we expect Raz to have it? Both members are in Europe so it it shouldn't take long.

Electric Grave
10-20-2016, 08:49 PM
^Boss has spoken, lol.

I'm psyched for this no matter the details, as long as it plays the games I'm down.

Tacitus
10-20-2016, 09:48 PM
When Stefano was making boot carts/kits and selling them on ebay, they were very upset but had zero legal recourse from what they told me. It's funny, after I brought it up he acted like "Oh I had no idea, I feel so bad", fuck that guy. Hence why all their newer games have heavy protection. They have accepted the loss of Last Hope and are moving forward.

I really hope he gets his balls caught in a weed wacker.

LegoSlug
10-21-2016, 12:22 AM
Looking forward to a review of this thing. I was planning to wait at least until a couple people got their hands on this cart, but who knows. Might want this in time for the holidays.

Tyranix95
10-21-2016, 12:32 AM
http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v475620265

CORY
10-21-2016, 12:41 AM
http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v475620265

http://i.imgur.com/POoOrqG.gif

egg_sanwich
10-21-2016, 01:05 AM
http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v475620265

The listing even links to the site where you can order one for ~380euro. You'd have to be pretty fucken dumb to buy that listing.

wyo
10-21-2016, 01:20 AM
http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v475620265

Is this the same faget reselling NTM's memory cards for tentacle rape prices?

lherre
10-21-2016, 02:00 AM
Lol at the yahoo auctions link.

neosd
10-21-2016, 02:23 AM
Ok Guys, we dont want start into a war or something like that, but i think its good to explain some things from a technical point of view:

First, we would like to state that we don't have any connection with DS cart or with DS itself, we never talked with him about NEOGEO as today.

Seccond, we already had our prototypes working long before he posted his proto photos. You can't design this in 2 months, i would say that DS telling that, proves his konwleage about electronics, in the best case .... We can post photos of our previous prototypes if required, we can also show invoices of our proto devices from the first months of 2016.

DS says we have stolen "his SD reading code" : it seems he is the only one in the world that can read a file from an sd card with an ARM, what can we say about that ? ... get any engeneer arround and ask about that, he dosent needs to know what neosd is or neogeo.
Also, where are we going to steal his code from? Binary cps2 multicart updates as someone said? Come on, that would be inmensely more effort than writting it from scratch, especially when ST provides the library to read SD cards it from its ARM devices :)

DS says load times on our videos are fake : i dont think any of us knows how to edit a video at all :)

DS says his product is better : i dont think he has a product righ now to say that, he still dont know if it will work right now.
Based on our development roadmap (we had the first proto running games back in May), we really doubt that he will reaches "problems stage" before the end of the year, it took us 4 months to pass this stage after we had a working prototype running games.

DS says his product is faster : We had King of fighters 2003 running back in May and load times were about 8 minutes, thats what i call slow loading times :), its 4:07 right now. I doubt he can know how fast his product "is", cause he dosent has one at all.
Anyways, he says that he will load games such as King Of Fighters 2003 in 12 secconds, but he wont tell that he is going to need 4 minutes to load it into flash before, then he could load it in 12 secconds after that, but he will need 4 minutes to load it again if he writes another game in the place where Kof2003 is. NEOSD takes 0 secconds to load King Of Fighters 2003 on the same scenario. A half lie is not a truth guys ....


DS says that his product has more chips and its better : Just ask any engeener, he dosent need to know what neogeo is or a flash cart is. He will tell you that putting more components allways means more problems, as more complex the design is, as more things you have to deal with, there are things on the pcb pics he showed that make no sense from a design point, such as use different brands of fpgas on the same board, this says a lot of about his design ..

DS says we copied his design : Ask any engenner if our design is similar in any aspect to the pcbs he showed, if you want more details, open a Sega Naomi cart and compare the chips we are using for convert levels with that, we just get ideas from people that knows that they do, i would not put DS on that list. Reading DS it seems he was using latches before Sega :)

Also, on the pcb that DS showed in August, we can see that he is using flash chips, so dont get fooled thinking his device will load games in 12 secconds, thats not possible with his current design and even with other design, you are allways going to need 30 secconds just to read this game from SD card. With his current design, has to wirte flash chips before and in the best scenario, he is going to need 4.07 minutes to write King Of Fighters 2003 into the flashes.

So why we have built NEOSD ? : Cause we got tired about year after year to hear neo geo flashcart was in the works, not DSīs, just Neo Geo flashcart, and it was pretty clear that years pass and there is only neo geo flash cart right now, NEOSD.

DS is playing a game consisting in tell people that his product is better, to lie to stop people purchasing ours, this type of game always have a end, Raz will have his cart next week, customers will in about 3 weeks. Then you guys can try things such as load times and see if DS is right when he says that lod times in our videos are fake, you can lie, but not forever cause people may be fanboy, but its not stupid at all.

So now, about Neo-Dev Team and others :

No, Neo-Dev team games will not be supported. Last hope conversion is cause the same reason it is on mame. We have designed the cart with that on mind from day one.
We have some nice plan for those, Raz knows the details but we wont disclose those right now, its not the right time for that, you will know about that in the next weeks/months.

So please, keep discussing tech details and let drama alone, we dont really want to move topic of this wonderful thread to what others say. There are two reasons why we are answering questions here and not elsewhere :

1 - people asking reasonable doubts.
2 - this forum is not owned by a guy trying to sell things, so coments are not censored.


You guys wanted a neo ge flashcart as much as we did, we have put our time and money on make it a reality, just enjoy it and let drama alone !

Thanks !

Razoola
10-21-2016, 02:50 AM
The plan at the moment as I understand is it will be shipped early next week to me.

I have had a very long talk with neosd yesturday and I came out of that at like 3am I think when I hit the sack. Very forthcoming again and sharing information, I now technically know how the cart works and it is almost identical to what I do with NeoGeo Land but based on a single game only. If I was not the kind of person I am I could probably easily make up a case that neosd stole the working idea from me. I'm am not that kind of person though and I know anyone at my level of programming experiance coupled with hardware design vision would have done it this way also. It's just pure common sence to do it like this when you have the knowhow.

Why am I telling this here? Well its because he told me a couple of things yesturday that I know from my experiance with NeoGeo Land he could not know unless he had the flashcart running/emulated the way he told me it works. You see, there are game specific things that need to be overcome that are neither encryption or protection related given how the cart works.

So there you have it. For me personally now, there is no question that the product really exists and is well designed and thought out. Even if it was never released there is enough there for me to know they built at least one. There is no question for me on weather this device has taken tech from the other flashcart guys as they impy either. I say this simply because the tech usage in this device does not exist in previous dasrksoft creations (they would be alot better if it did). Given the way ds has said his neogeo flash cart will work thus far, this remains true also for thier forthcoming device. There are many devices for many different systems out there with sdcard reading / flashing ability, I suspect there are probably librarys available freely on the net to take care of this part of things. I would guess ds uses those himself in some way, the same way anyone of sound mind would. I can say for sure that even after the neosd is out there, ds's also, they both will not be the first sdcard based NeoGeo cart that I have seen, I saw a video of one long long ago. Then there is the MGD2 that used 3.5' disks from the ninties which is technically the same thing using the storage tech available at that time.

For me the only unswered part is the quality of sdmans character and given he has come out of the blue really. It will probably take some time for him to build a rep and we all know that sometimes a rep stands for nothing. It seems he is on the right path so far. I fully understand some people mistrust about preordering given they way things have gone down in the past. I'm not 100% sure a review can take all that away but it will end any fear in relation to if this exists or not, for me there is no question, it's real.

Edit, it seems I started writing my post just before neosd posted his, they kind of tie together nicely though.

Marcantoine
10-21-2016, 06:02 AM
Hey Neosd ( walter sichi ) :)

aku
10-21-2016, 08:12 AM
i know walter was working on new pcbs for a multi, i dont know if it is him. if he is involved in this project its even better, because from my experience he is 100% trustworthy.

FilthyRear
10-21-2016, 08:32 AM
Question:

Say this is real, and that it works, and that you're selling them and everyone is happy (perfect world, I know, but humor me).

The load times you say are "4.07 minutes"... At some point in the future would these times DECREASE? Would it be handeled through software updates, or new revisions of the actual HARDWARE?

I'm hella interested, tho!

hyper
10-21-2016, 08:47 AM
You guys wanted a neo ge flashcart as much as we did, we have put our time and money on make it a reality, just enjoy it and let drama alone !

Thanks !thats for sure, everybody's been asking for a flashcart for years. thanks for the update. razoolas word on this goes a long way

Montatez
10-21-2016, 09:21 AM
http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v475620265

O man......

Well NEOSD and Razoola are selling me on this already! This is getting me a little hyped but I want to wait for an official review!

Thanks both of you guys this sounds like good work!

lions3
10-21-2016, 04:26 PM
Guys, you're forgetting for YEARS the Everdrives had load times. As i'm assuming the process of writing to the chips was the same then as it is now with NEOSD. It's just the games were a little smaller for the other consoles. It's only relatively recently that Everdrives have "instant" load. That's cus he changed chip technology. Let these guys work through things. One step at a time.

Electric Grave
10-21-2016, 04:33 PM
Exactly, bunch of people a little too eager, demanding and clueless all at once. Patience is a virtue in this sort of thing.

legolas119
10-21-2016, 04:54 PM
100000 was the number mentioned earlier. EDIT Post#117

ok thank you! and only Last hope is playable from the NGDev games, am i right?

munchiaz
10-21-2016, 06:30 PM
ok thank you! and only Last hope is playable from the NGDev games, am i right?

Thats correct

city41
10-21-2016, 09:04 PM
SFA3 takes 46 seconds to load on the DS multiboard. SFA3 is 46 megabytes uncompressed, about 1 meg/second

KOF2003 is 93 megabytes uncompressed, about .38 megs/second

Sure it's 3 times slower, but I still think it's a respectable speed. But I'm not a hardware guy.

RAZO
10-21-2016, 10:53 PM
Money does funny things to people.

On the other hand, providing gray-market wares and claiming theft is very duplicitous.

I like Darksoft, even after everything that has happened.

I'd prefer to give my money to him and his products have never failed me.

Same here. I know some people here have a beef with him and I respect that but so far his products have been nothing but topnotch.


As far as this NeoSd product go's, I just can't believe how so many people here are not bothered by these ridiculous load times. 3-4 minutes to load a game? This is the reason I never got into the Neo Geo Cd in the first place. Supposedly DS Neo Multi will load much faster and I rather support him instead of someone I have no clue about. If Raz ever releases his Neo-Geo Land which looks promising I'll support him as well and any other products he releases in the future like I have done before. Till then I'll stick to my 161 in 1. Sorry but I'll pass.

LegoSlug
10-21-2016, 10:59 PM
Same here. I know some people here have a beef with him and I respect that but so far his products have been nothing but topnotch.


As far as this NeoSd product go's, I just can't believe how so many people here are not bothered by these ridiculous load times. 3-4 minutes to load a game? This is the reason I never got into the Neo Geo Cd in the first place. Supposedly DS Neo Multi will load much faster and I rather support him instead of someone I have no clue about. If Raz ever releases his Neo-Geo Land which looks promising I'll support him as well and any other products he releases in the future like I have done before. Till then I'll stick to my 161 in 1. Sorry but I'll pass.

The game only needs to load once. After that it plays the same as any other cart. As long as you are not switching back and forward, load time will not be an issue. This is fine by me, I play my games in a cab, so games tend to stay put once they are in the mobo.

RAZO
10-21-2016, 11:12 PM
The game only needs to load once. After that it plays the same as any other cart. As long as you are not switching back and forward, load time will not be an issue. This is fine by me, I play my games in a cab, so games tend to stay put once they are in the mobo.

Yes I know, It's similar to DS's cps2 multi were once you load a game it stays in the memory. I still rather support DS. His customer service is excellent and so far his products have been great. I only own one of his products and that's the Cps2 Multi and l love it. I also hear his CP3 and STV multi is great as well. I don't blame anyone for wanting to support NEOSD, looks like a cool product but I rather wait for DS's Neo-Geo Multi since I've had experience with his products and customer service.

Razoola
10-22-2016, 02:15 AM
Here is the thing about loading times. (warning impartial view coming).

Put it into prospective, CPS-3 takes about 30 minutes to load.

But I get it, loading times may be important for some.. Is this the reason your buying a flashcart though? For those serious about wanting accurate games on a flashcart (and after all this is the main complaint relating to the 161in1 etc)... I would say your number one priority is not loading times but making sure games loaded do pass the unibios gamecart CRC32 check. You need to make sure your purchase/potential purchase is doing the fundemental things correctly before making loading times such a priority.

Even 20 seconds to swap a game is extreamly slow compared to a 161in1, if both hold games that fail the unibios crc32 check.

neosd
10-22-2016, 03:42 AM
Hello everyone,

About load times :
Those numbers refer to unique games, not different versions of the same game such as hacks or revisions.

50% of the games take to load less than 1 minute
30% of the games take to load less than 30 secconds
ONLY 10% of the games take more than 3 minutes to load

We uploaded a video showing Kof2003 complete load times to show the worst scenario on loading times and it seems people is keeping this number for all games, thats not correct.

Thanks

Nostromo
10-22-2016, 03:44 AM
For me, waiting is a bit annoying but certainly I can live with it. Come on, I can play games like Ninja Masters, Garou, Pulstar, NiTD and many others I would never afford. And it is not like that I change the game every 10 minutes. Select the game you want to play and go fetch a beer. By the time your ass is comfy on the couch, the game has 10 seconds left to load.

Nostromo
10-22-2016, 03:46 AM
Hello everyone,

About load times :
Those numbers refer to unique games, not different versions of the same game such as hacks or revisions.

50% of the games take to load less than 1 minute
30% of the games take to load less than 30 secconds
ONLY 10% of the games take more than 3 minutes to load

We uploaded a video showing Kof2003 complete load times to show the worst scenario on loading times and it seems people is keeping this number for all games, thats not correct.

Thanks

That is more than acceptable.

@Neosd, when will we be able to order with case? Do you think you will have enough PCBs to keep up with initial demand, which I guess will be high?

neosd
10-22-2016, 04:04 AM
That is more than acceptable.

@Neosd, when will we be able to order with case? Do you think you will have enough PCBs to keep up with initial demand, which I guess will be high?


Plasctic cases should be here first week of December (thats part of the contract we signed with the manufacturer), we wont let people buy those before we got the final units and people can see how those look, the pictures on the website are from prototype pieces done with plastic laser printer, so we dont want to confuse customers shipping a different color cases than the ones on pictures (final cases are going to be black).
Also, plastic cases are being built Europe aswel.

About demand, its too early to say how the demand is going to be, we will start shipping the first batch about 15 of November as stated on the webshop. I think we could produce more units before 20th of December, so if demand is not high from 15th November to first week of December, and then demand rises, we may have limited stock until January.

Hard to answer the question right now if you ask me.

Thanks !

massimiliano
10-22-2016, 04:44 AM
Hello everyone,

About load times :
Those numbers refer to unique games, not different versions of the same game such as hacks or revisions.

50% of the games take to load less than 1 minute
30% of the games take to load less than 30 secconds
ONLY 10% of the games take more than 3 minutes to load

We uploaded a video showing Kof2003 complete load times to show the worst scenario on loading times and it seems people is keeping this number for all games, thats not correct.

Thanks

Hi, just curious, would be possible (maybe integrating Raz's gui selection mechanism) to fill the flash with as many games as possible (i.e. 10 by 70megs or a 100megs game+ a 600Megs one), switching among them with no loading times neogeoland style? That would be a cool optimization and probably an acceptable trade-off for the 161-1 multicart fans.

ckchan
10-22-2016, 05:31 AM
Hi Neosd,

Will the pcb maintain its stability after playing for serveral hours? No reset?
How long did you test it?

legolas119
10-22-2016, 08:00 AM
Thats correct

thanks

tcdev
10-22-2016, 09:14 AM
This is an exciting development and I'd like to throw my opinion into the ring too.

99.99% of you won't know me as I'm more of a lurker in the scene, but I've been following emulation for over 2 decades now and contributed to MAME many years ago and have also worked on many of my own projects over the years. By trade I'm an electronics/software/FPGA design engineer with over 10 years experience in FPGA work, including several dozen implementations of retro arcade games and 8-bit microcomputers.

I was a relative latecomer to Neo Geo but must admit it's now one of my favourite systems, recently working on a few ports to the platform. More significantly to this thread, I actually designed a flash cart for the Neo Geo almost 3 years ago now, and have had a fully laid-out schematic ready for final review and prototype manufacture for about 18 months now. The main impediments to moving forward have been the arrival of my daughter and son, a significant change to my working circumstances, and finances; i.e. no time, no money.

Of course I expect few of you to believe any of this, so I offer up some blog entries over the years...

Some adapters I designed and had manufactured for the flash cart. (http://ngpace.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/aes-adapters.html)
An AES cart "running" on an MVS system. (http://ngpace.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/mvs-adapters-and-world-first.html)
A 3D rendering of the finished flash cart PCB layout. (http://ngpace.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/vaporware-rendered-in-glorious-3d.html)

And to add credence to some of my software developments...

Arcade Donkey Kong on the MVS (MAME) - 100% 68K assembler (50% complete)! (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/dusting-off-neo-kong.html)
Apple II Lode Runner, MVS (MAME) - C (99% complete) (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/tonight-i-finished-game-over-animation.html)
ZX Spectrum Knight Lore, MVS (MAME) - C (99% complete) (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2016/02/neo-geo-mvs-eye-candy.html)

So as you can imagine, I greeted this news with some amount of disappointment, but also excitement!

Although technical details are limited, it appears as though it is a very similar design to that I had prepared. An FPGA, some flash, even an SD card slot, though with a larger FPGA I planned to use a soft-core processor rather than an external ARM - at least for the prototype.

And this brings me to my first topic - the claims that this design was 'ripped off'. In short, as neosd would know, there are only a limited number of ways to skin this particular cat, and most of them are bleedingly obvious to any engineer worth his salt that knows the system. To claim any kind of ownership of a design of a Neo Geo flash cart is simply ludicrous and, IMHO, reeks of pure jealousy.

And onto my second topic - complaints of loading times and the UI design. Not unexpected, given the (sometimes pathetic) history of any retro gaming scene, and Neo Geo in particular is not immune to it. Most complaints of this nature can be put down to either immaturity, jealousy or simple ignorance. ElectricGrave hit the nail on the head earlier ITT! And I'm not having a go at those that only seek to question or make observations of these aspects or even the (understandably) cautious 'wait and see'; that's fine - it's the proclamations of 'rubbish' and 'never buying that' that add no value to the discussion and only hurt the scene. You can be rest assured that anyone producing such an outburst has absolutely no fucking clue what-so-ever about anything more technical than plugging in a cartridge.

As someone OTOH somewhat knowledgeable of the technical obstacles and challenges that go into the design, I can only applaud neosd and I have absolutely no doubt this is a real product, a product that works, and works well.

I also believe that there's some confusion as to the ultimate utility of this design, which is perhaps the source of some discord. To be blunt, if you're just looking to play KOF95 - give this a miss and go and buy a 161-in-1 multi-cart. This was never meant to allow you to flip through games every 5 minutes. What this cart will do is open up the whole home-brew development scene like nothing before it and - to me - that is the most exciting aspect of the product. One of the main reasons I haven't finished off Donkey Kong, for example, is the fact that you can't actually play it on real hardware, unless you have an NGCD and are willing to turn your TV on its side! Now with a flash-cart and a vertical cabinet...

Anyway, hats off to neosd and best of luck with the project! I'm impressed and more than a little jealous that you beat me to the punch, but I got caught napping on this one! Sounds like you've got it in the bag and I have little doubt this will sell well when the positive reviews start to flow in. IMHO Neo Geo enthusiasts are amongst the more well-funded retro gamers and are always willing to outlay some serious cash for their hobby (well, they have little choice at today's prices!) So please, ignore the nay-sayers and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what else you can come up with too!

Now to get my Neo Geo Motherboard clone off the ground... though I believe that is also in the works somewhere too! :(

Fygee
10-22-2016, 09:34 AM
Lots of really cool information.

This project is really bringing out the best in the community. I'm loving it. Its great to see another person with good Neo knowledge coming out from the shadows to provide us with great insight on this flash cart.

With the NeoSD and Darksoft's cart coming out, is there still any possibility that you would eventually finalize and release yours as well?

Rot
10-22-2016, 09:38 AM
This project is really bringing out the best in the community. I'm loving it. Its great to see another person with good Neo knowledge coming out from the shadows to provide us with great insight on this flash cart.

That's what I like about the community here... neosd has answered and been as amicable as he can be given the tough crowd on here...

I like stuff like this... as long as you play ball with our memberbase... it has my attention and support where needed:D

xROTx

Montatez
10-22-2016, 09:47 AM
That's what I like about the community here... neosd has answered and been as amicable as he can be given the tough crowd on here...

I like stuff like this... as long as you play ball with our memberbase... it has my attention and support where needed:D

xROTx

Agreed! Everything is turning out well!

GadgetUK
10-22-2016, 10:33 AM
Taken the plunge - ordered one! If I manage to be in the November batch I will upload a video.

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 10:58 AM
What entitled fucking dopes some people are

'IT TAKES 4 MINUTES TO LOAD UP A GAME I DIDN'T PAY FOR ON MY OBSCURE OVERPRICED SYSTEM.... FUCKING WAAAAAAHHH'

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 11:00 AM
I can't wait for the shit posts about how putting this onto a magic key, running it to an AES and playing CTHD doesn't emulate the sound exactly right and this thing is a piece of shit.

RAZO
10-22-2016, 11:09 AM
What entitled fucking dopes some people are

'IT TAKES 4 MINUTES TO LOAD UP A GAME I DIDN'T PAY FOR ON MY OBSCURE OVERPRICED SYSTEM.... FUCKING WAAAAAAHHH'

Yea, fuck those spoiled bitches. Lol

neosd
10-22-2016, 11:12 AM
Massi, we got an email pending to answer you. We are looking for a way to proceeed with your order, you will get an answer Monday, really sorry for the delay, there are things we cant do on wekends (those that involve 3rd companies).

tcdev, glad to read your words, we have designed this device with a lot of love and respect, believe me. There is a last piece to anounce that we hope will make people undrestand it better.

On other side of the story ...
I was talking today with a friend of mine and telling him about what happened in the last 5 days, i started telling the sotry this way :
In internet if you tell people that Coca Cola contains sulfuric acid, prolly 80% of the people that isnt chermical engeneer will believe that, as far as there are more than one guy telling that.
That happened with some absourd claims we had to read last days such as the stolen design and SD reading code story.
It was the last bullet in a way to stop sales and put fears in play, you do that when you dont have other weapons. Thats pretty interesting to see how internet works in that way if you ask me.
I think that our problem is that we cant quite understand how people can believe such things, we have to understand that not everyone knows about anything.

Another nice aspect is the : out of the blue situation. We didnt see any reason to anounce we were working on something as complex as NeoGeo, as we didnt even knew if we would be able to achieve it and deliver the product itself. We anounced it after we tested the entire chain : From design, to code, ending in manufacturing at the factory to validate the quality of the pcbs and assembling line.

Anyways, looking for your neogeo clone if you decide to release it, count on our purchase !

Thanks

RAZO
10-22-2016, 11:27 AM
Hello everyone,

About load times :
Those numbers refer to unique games, not different versions of the same game such as hacks or revisions.

50% of the games take to load less than 1 minute
30% of the games take to load less than 30 secconds
ONLY 10% of the games take more than 3 minutes to load

We uploaded a video showing Kof2003 complete load times to show the worst scenario on loading times and it seems people is keeping this number for all games, thats not correct.

Thanks

Thank you for Clarifying. I was under the impression that all games took over 3 minutes to load. Maybe I'll treat myself to a early Christmas Gift this year.

CORY
10-22-2016, 12:36 PM
Maybe the arcade scene isn't for you if you change your games every 5 minutes, just sayin'.

RAZO
10-22-2016, 12:54 PM
Edit.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing NEOds's product so I'll stop.

DaytimeDreamer
10-22-2016, 01:09 PM
Maybe the arcade scene isn't for you if you change your games every 5 minutes, just sayin'.

Yeah true. Maybe MAME is a better fitting for those people :P

Glad to see this development is bringing out more people working on improving the Neo in general.

FAT$TACKS
10-22-2016, 01:12 PM
Well, looks like I'm going to be getting back into the NeoGeo scene again. Shit.. got to come up with gear now.

RAZO
10-22-2016, 01:34 PM
Yeah true. Maybe MAME is a better fitting for those people :P

Glad to see this development is bringing out more people working on improving the Neo in general.

Since I feel this is being directed towards me I'll bite.
1. I hardly use Mame.
2. The only two arcade formats I own are the Neo and CPS2 and I've always played them on original hardware. The exception is when I go on a trip and take my psp with me.
3. Only arcade Multi's I own are the 160-1 and 120-1 and Cps2 Multi. The only one that has load times is the cps2 multi and almost all games load under a minute.

Also, you can't compare the CPS2 library with the Neo one. How often do I switch games? Sometimes I won't switch a game for weeks and sometimes I'll have friends over and I'll switch pretty often. Are the load times a huge deal for most? No. Are they a huge deal to me? Yea, they are but I'm definitely in the minority. I've never had to wait to load a Neo Game and I think some of the charm of owning a Aes or MVS has been zero load times. Shit, I've always hated load times and always will.

That being said, I hope this product does well and future updates make this multi better. I guess I am a entitled fucking dope.

CORY
10-22-2016, 01:35 PM
This post wasn't directed at you bro, it was a general response to all the dumb comments I've read all over the internet about those one-time-loadings (especially on the french forums).

The whole point of playing short arcade games is to learn their scoring systems and to get better at them. It's to be able to execute combos, 1cc a loop, make big chains and stuff like that. To do this, you need to spend a lot time on the same games.

I'm not sure how people swapping games every 5 minutes can learn how to play a game properly. Have fun? Yes, sure... but why bother with arcade hardware then? Cabs aren't consoles. They weren't built to be. I don't change the games in my cabs every five minutes and even if I did, I'd expect the usual roms checks every single time I'd power the cabs up.

Kid Panda
10-22-2016, 01:39 PM
This post wasn't directed at you bro, it was a general response to all the dumb comments I've read all over the internet about those one-time-loadings (especially on the french forums).

The whole point of playing short arcade games is to learn their scoring systems and to get better at them. It's to be able to execute combos, 1cc a loop, make big chains and stuff like that. To do this, you need to spend a lot time on the same games.

I'm not sure how people swapping games every 5 minutes can learn how to play a game properly. Have fun? Yes, sure... but why bother with arcade hardware then? Cabs aren't consoles. They weren't built to be. I don't change the games in my cabs every five minutes and even if I did I'd expect the usual roms checks every single time I'd power the cabs up.



I want to play Battle Garegga NOW! What is all this ram and rom checking shit!!!! Fuck this!

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 01:46 PM
I want to play Battle Garegga NOW! What is all this ram and rom checking shit!!!! Fuck this!

I PRAY, GOD OF THE EAST, TO ALLOW RAIDEN FIGHTERS JET TO LOAD AFTER SWAPPING IT WITH VIPER PHASE 1.


OH LORD, PLEASE GRANT THE MIRACLE OF PROPER LOADING AND THE 1 IN 10 CHANCE THIS WONT NEED TO BE SENT OUT THE BE FIXED.

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 01:47 PM
I want to play Battle Garegga NOW! What is all this ram and rom checking shit!!!! Fuck this!

I WANT TO CHANGE 2I OVER TO 3S.

BETTER GO BAKE A TURKEY WHILE THIS LOADS.