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RAZO
10-22-2016, 01:48 PM
I want to play Battle Garegga NOW! What is all this ram and rom checking shit!!!! Fuck this!

Battle Garegga is fine. Now try fucking with Raiden Fighters.

Kid Panda
10-22-2016, 01:49 PM
:lolz: I forgot about the Seibu stuff. Even in Mame on Turbo it takes like 10 mins. Geez, I'm glad I got a mobo for all of those.

CORY
10-22-2016, 01:51 PM
I missed VT :lolz:

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 01:52 PM
:lolz: I forgot about the Seibu stuff. Even in Mame on Turbo it takes like 10 mins. Geez, I'm glad I got a mobo for all of those.

Owning seibu stuff and reloading is like playing the world's most frustrating lottery.

The small chance it works everytime is enough.. then you actually have to try and survive them.

RAZO
10-22-2016, 01:52 PM
I WANT TO CHANGE 2I OVER TO 3S.

BETTER GO BAKE A TURKEY WHILE THIS LOADS.

To be fair though, how often are you going to change games on CP3 hardware? Between the 6 games your probably going to keep in on 3s most of the time.

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 01:53 PM
:lolz: I forgot about the Seibu stuff. Even in Mame on Turbo it takes like 10 mins. Geez, I'm glad I got a mobo for all of those.

I sold all of mine after the last time I had issues. That was years ago.

I'm saying this now and I'll fucking impulse buy RFJ just because we talked about it.

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 01:54 PM
To be fair though, how often are you going to change games on CP3 hardware? Between the 6 games your probably going to keep in on 3s most of the time.

People who suck at 2nd impact always have these feelings. It's ok, I understand.

Tacitus
10-22-2016, 01:57 PM
To be fair though, how often are you going to change games on CP3 hardware? Between the 6 games your probably going to keep in on 3s most of the time.

How fucking entitled are we that we're complaining about 3 minutes of your life waiting to play a game on an obscure system, perfectly translated, saving you thousands of dollars and giving you hours of entertainment?

RAZO
10-22-2016, 02:01 PM
How fucking entitled are we that we're complaining about 3 minutes of your life waiting to play a game on an obscure system, perfectly translated, saving you thousands of dollars and giving you hours of entertainment?

Very entitled. So entitled that I will hold off on buying it. I except nothing but perfection when it comes to the NEO. ;)

neosd
10-22-2016, 02:36 PM
I own about 85 original neo geo games, 30-40 bases and about 40 puzzle booble bootlegs :)

None of those have been purchased for this project, i have been collecting those for years and i had a lot of arcade boards i allways ended selling after the few first weeks of excitemnet, but never sold a neogeo game i didnt have repeated, neither i will do it now.

So said that, i have to tell you one thing : i have spent more than 4 minutes a lot of times trying to load a game, getting a gum to clean contacts, inserting it again and again trying to make good contact so the game starts without glitches. I asume anyone that had a largue collection had those issues.

Is loading times an issue ? at first, on the paper, i thought it was to be honest, but once i started using NEOSD, as player/colector, its not anymore.

Thanks !






Since I feel this is being directed towards me I'll bite.
1. I hardly use Mame.
2. The only two arcade formats I own are the Neo and CPS2 and I've always played them on original hardware. The exception is when I go on a trip and take my psp with me.
3. Only arcade Multi's I own are the 160-1 and 120-1 and Cps2 Multi. The only one that has load times is the cps2 multi and almost all games load under a minute.

Also, you can't compare the CPS2 library with the Neo one. How often do I switch games? Sometimes I won't switch a game for weeks and sometimes I'll have friends over and I'll switch pretty often. Are the load times a huge deal for most? No. Are they a huge deal to me? Yea, they are but I'm definitely in the minority. I've never had to wait to load a Neo Game and I think some of the charm of owning a Aes or MVS has been zero load times. Shit, I've always hated load times and always will.

That being said, I hope this product does well and future updates make this multi better. I guess I am a entitled fucking dope.

DaytimeDreamer
10-22-2016, 02:36 PM
Since I feel this is being directed towards me I'll bite.
1. I hardly use Mame.
2. The only two arcade formats I own are the Neo and CPS2 and I've always played them on original hardware. The exception is when I go on a trip and take my psp with me.
3. Only arcade Multi's I own are the 160-1 and 120-1 and Cps2 Multi. The only one that has load times is the cps2 multi and almost all games load under a minute.

Also, you can't compare the CPS2 library with the Neo one. How often do I switch games? Sometimes I won't switch a game for weeks and sometimes I'll have friends over and I'll switch pretty often. Are the load times a huge deal for most? No. Are they a huge deal to me? Yea, they are but I'm definitely in the minority. I've never had to wait to load a Neo Game and I think some of the charm of owning a Aes or MVS has been zero load times. Shit, I've always hated load times and always will.

That being said, I hope this product does well and future updates make this multi better. I guess I am a entitled fucking dope.


Just a general remark. Not directed towards you.

greedostick
10-22-2016, 05:35 PM
Looks sweet, but I feel cautious dropping that cash without knowing the seller. Does this feller have any credentials?

fenikso
10-22-2016, 05:58 PM
Looks sweet, but I feel cautious dropping that cash without knowing the seller. Does this feller have any credentials?

No credentials, other than being incredibly forthcoming and at the very least honest sounding. Final verdict from Raz is pretty much all that's holding me back at this point.

PS - IDGAF about the load times. This device will spend most of it's time between GMotW, TSS, WHP, LB2, and Ninja Masters.

tcdev
10-22-2016, 10:26 PM
With the NeoSD and Darksoft's cart coming out, is there still any possibility that you would eventually finalize and release yours as well?
I knew nothing about Darksoft's cart until a quick Google a few minutes ago. ;)

I've had a few back-and-forth emails overnight on the topic with my ex-colleague who was kind enough to review my schematic and do the PCB layout all that time ago. He has encouraged me to continue with the project despite the competition that has now surfaced. I still haven't made up my mind but I must admit, having not had much opportunity to work on retro-related hardware projects for quite some time, I've very tempted to ramp things up again. Having said that, the "no time and no money" issue is still a real factor in the equation.

What I will say though, is that my design actually had a couple of features not readily evident in the details that neosd has released thus far. One of course is support for the AES out-of-the-box, though it's also fair to say that my product is all still vapore-ware at this point! There was another feature that I added that I won't disclose at this point, but it actually enhanced the capabilities of the Neo Geo somewhat and is therefore very unlikely to be duplicated by someone else. Whether the enhancement is actually something anyone else would be interested I can't say, but it would only be of consequence to home brew developers specifically targeting my flash cartridge that wanted to take advantage of this feature. It goes without saying that I had a few ports in mind that would use this feature.

The flash cart itself started out as a spin-off from my motherboard project; something that I could (laughably now) produce sooner and for less outlay. I reasoned that it might be a means to fund the motherboard development, and also assist in the motherboard development itself.

Sadly (as far as this project is concerned), my circumstances changed rather dramatically over a short period of time and I found myself without the means or the time to continue. The current status is this; the MVS and AES adapter boards have been designed, manufactured, assembled and successfully tested. I have, for example, 'run' an AES cartridge in an MVS system (sans sprites of course) which has, as far as I know, never been done to this day (not that there's a lot of point to it without sprites). The flash cartridge (prototype) PCB has been designed and fully laid out - a cartridge would thus comprise two identical 'flash cartridge' PCBs and an adapter with fingerboards to plug into an AES/MVS. Note again; this is only the prototype. What needs doing is a final review of the schematics and PCB, check again that the parts we have used are still available, and order a prototype PCB manufacture and assembly run (6-8 boards in total).

I had also planned a couple of different variants of the cart, including a low-cost 'home brew' version that was incapable of playing commercial titles but allowed home brew developers to test and even produce titles on cartridge.

As for the motherboard project; many years ago I got a rudimentary system implemented on a terASIC DE2 that booted the BIOS and played Joy Joy Kid - again sans sprites - but you could actually coin up and see the game running via the FIX layer graphics. I have a mostly-complete schematic which was ridiculously over-engineered on purpose; a massive FPGA and both MVS and AES cartridge slots. It was (is?) to be the basis of many future FPGA projects, and the carts slots make perfect I/O board connectors!!!

trenton_net
10-22-2016, 11:56 PM
I must admit, this is a pretty neat piece of hardware. Though it might be a tough sell, since people who want to own discrete games will simply buy them, and people who want all the games will just get a Chinese multi-cart and call it a day. This is especially true since Chinese multi-carts have zero load times (bankswitching) vs a flash cart that can take upwards of 4 minutes to load per game change.

Razoola
10-23-2016, 01:23 AM
I knew nothing about Darksoft's cart until a quick Google a few minutes ago. ;)

I've had a few back-and-forth emails.........


Hi there, I have actually seen your blog a while back but your pervious post made me aware of a couple of things that I missed. I really like your retro conversions.

I think you mentioned about the issues for devs with the CD system and having to use CD's to test on real hardware. I'm wondering if you saw our little PC-2-NEO project that hooks that hooks a PC to NeoGeo via the joystick port? It basically turns the NeoCD into a dev system which is only limited by the RAM spec and quite a few devs use it now on small projects. It allows you to get data into the system quicker than from CD. No CD disc is required either so removes the burning step too! The transfer speed is really impressive (if I say so myself) when you consider it uses a single joystick port (8 data lines) and is governed by a 12mhz CPU. Its around 264 kb/s in fast mode, when you enalbe RLE however is can jump to around 400 kb/s transfering sprites for example (depending how well they compress). If you sit down and calculate the transfer speed against cpu cycles available (allowing for opcode execution times) it may leave some to scratch their heads.

One the dev side of this I have said it before and Ill say it again. One really needs a direct USB connection to the cart and in an ideal world all reagions which are ROM should be RAM and not FLASH in which some of that RAM would be battery powered when system off. Of course this is the ideal DEVcart which would not really be the ideal solution if you want to play games only. Then again there would be the ability to meet in the middle using USB and SD card in conjunction. For example in neosd current solution you simply change the P ROM flash space allocation into RAM and have a USB port that can directly upload/modify that RAM along with the other features devers would like.

I like your thinking in that like me you have said to yourself 'if I'm going to add some hardware to the system, why not enhance the system in some way if I can while still keeping the original games 100% playable'. This is what I also do in my NeoGeo Land concept, there are now a couple of videos on youtube of this proof of concept (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTNlI2YWZs&t=14s) and a thread at http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?267341-NEOGEO-Land. Basically this turns a single slot MVS / AES into a multislot system while still using a single flashcart. It also fixes issues on the AES when you want to play in arcade mode by taking care of the differences between the MVS and AES spec. Of course its a proof of concept and may never come to anything, I mainly started it because I wanted to see if my ideal vision of a flashcart/multicart could actually be done given there is the bios to take into consideration with some of the features I wanted.

There is a thread on the techsupport forum showing an AES cart hooked upto an MVS and running with sprites also (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?260590-AES-to-MVS-(plays-AES-games-on-MVS)/page4). I remember there were some glitches with sprites but I'm sure they were resolved in the end. You might want to browse it as you will probably find it intresting.

Back to the neosd though. I'm really impressed with what I have seen so far in the videos given how it handles the protected games without requiring patches inside the P1 ROM space to get them running. This is probably the main point about this flashcart. There is also correct 512k Fix tile handling for example, very nice given there are a couple of games that will not display correctly without this ability compared to the original games.

Nostromo
10-23-2016, 01:40 AM
@razoola you have a NeoSD right now in your hands or I misunderstood?

Thanks!

Razoola
10-23-2016, 01:51 AM
@razoola you have a NeoSD right now in your hands or I misunderstood?

Thanks!

No I don't, one is going to be sent on Tuesday all going well. I can see from the videos they have done some of the features the neosd has and of course I will confirm this again when I get the cart to look over and review.

neosd
10-23-2016, 02:54 AM
Hello everyone,

We can confirm that the backup ram saving/loading function is working now. NEOSD now stores the backup ram block and softdips of the current game into SD card before loading a new one, and then loads the backp ram block for the new game (if it exists), so if you swap games you will not loose high scores and soft dips. You can also backup this data from the SD card and share it with other NEOSD users or store it elsewhere.

We are going to make some more videos today showing features such as MVS loading games on AES mode without unibios, and showing more load times.

Stay tuned !

Thanks !

Nostromo
10-23-2016, 03:46 AM
Awesome. Cannot wait until I can order a unit (complete case!).

GadgetUK
10-23-2016, 04:38 AM
Hello everyone,

We can confirm that the backup ram saving/loading function is working now. NEOSD now stores the backup ram block and softdips of the current game into SD card before loading a new one, and then loads the backp ram block for the new game (if it exists), so if you swap games you will not loose high scores and soft dips. You can also backup this data from the SD card and share it with other NEOSD users or store it elsewhere.

We are going to make some more videos today showing features such as MVS loading games on AES mode without unibios, and showing more load times.

Stay tuned !

Thanks !

This is absolutely fantastic!!! I cannot praise you enough on this! Tell you what would be the icing on the cake - if you could talk with Razoola about this neogeoland and see if there's anyway between you if you can accommodate his interface or some of his ideas into the existing interface. It's amazing already though! Can't wait for mine to arrive now =D

EDIT: Also curious to see if you avoided the PCM issues related to SDRMPX and SDPMPX connections like the x in 1 multicarts have (Most noticable in Strikers 1945).

Razoola
10-23-2016, 05:16 AM
This is absolutely fantastic!!! I cannot praise you enough on this! Tell you what would be the icing on the cake - if you could talk with Razoola about this neogeoland and see if there's anyway between you if you can accommodate his interface or some of his ideas into the existing interface. It's amazing already though! Can't wait for mine to arrive now =D

We are talking on various things but as everyone needs to respect any NeoGeo Land product is in the future and not now.

What I would say is if we did work together later on a NeoGeo Land type cart the logical step would be to first update the current neosd UI and firmware etc as much as possible to bring as much of NeoGeo Land to it as possible. This is also so I can alter the workings of NeoGeo Land so it works with the SD card in the same way neosd does given thats different than storing in onboard backupRAM which I do now. Then after that a new neosd PCB can be devolped to fully support the things NeoGeo needs to get full NeoGeo multislot support.

People assume with multicarts like the 161in1 that you buy them with the games flashed on. Why does that have to be the case? Why not have an SDcard so you can configure the games you want on NeoGeo Land and then twiddle your thumbs for a couple of hours while you flash them all in one go? Would that seem like a long wait for what you get in return? Between 4 and 5 minutes now sounds very quick :)

To answer your question then. I think I can say you would probably expect to see updates to support things like new UI etc if a future venture happens.

I want to add that no one should stop themselves from purchasing a flash cart now if the only thing stopping them currently is hanging onto a Neo Geo Land type cart in the very near term. Hopefully not, but... You might be left hanging until you reach the grave.

Fygee
10-23-2016, 06:58 AM
I've had a few back-and-forth emails overnight on the topic with my ex-colleague who was kind enough to review my schematic and do the PCB layout all that time ago. He has encouraged me to continue with the project despite the competition that has now surfaced. I still haven't made up my mind but I must admit, having not had much opportunity to work on retro-related hardware projects for quite some time, I've very tempted to ramp things up again. Having said that, the "no time and no money" issue is still a real factor in the equation.


In my personal opinion, based off of the info you've provided, I think it would be a great idea to get this going again. More competition is always good, and I'm keen to see what enhancements yours would have over others. The fact that it would work with AES would be a large benefit.

Obviously the "no time and no money" thing would be an impediment, but getting it to a functional physical prototype stage would be a good start.

legolas119
10-23-2016, 07:40 AM
Hello everyone,

About load times :
Those numbers refer to unique games, not different versions of the same game such as hacks or revisions.

50% of the games take to load less than 1 minute
30% of the games take to load less than 30 secconds
ONLY 10% of the games take more than 3 minutes to load

We uploaded a video showing Kof2003 complete load times to show the worst scenario on loading times and it seems people is keeping this number for all games, thats not correct.

Thanks

Ah ok thank you for the information! Only 10% of games have long loading time!:buttrock:

greedostick
10-23-2016, 12:18 PM
NEOSD

I can not get the payment to work. It keeps saying "DATA ERROR, please contact the merchant". I have called my bank and they said it is OK on our end.

Please Help me secure a cart.

neosd
10-23-2016, 03:16 PM
NEOSD

I can not get the payment to work. It keeps saying "DATA ERROR, please contact the merchant". I have called my bank and they said it is OK on our end.

Please Help me secure a cart.

Hello,

Sorry for the inconvenience, check PM please.

Thanks

neosd
10-23-2016, 03:27 PM
Hello everyone


As promissed, we are uploading now a few videos with a new software version, showing some features we talked about last days.

First one is Rage of the dragons runing on MVS and changing AES mode from NEOSD menu, we would love to see who guess why we have choosen this game ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxCTU_rYs78


We have also uploaded some more videos showing load times and how once you have flashed a game, even if you power off the neo geo and remove the cart, it wont get deleted, so you dont have to flash it again to play each time.
Those videos also show load times.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrMcCOK2cpE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HuYNG8V_dI


More videos to come on the next hours, just stay tunned, we are still uploading those.

Thanks !

Rot
10-23-2016, 03:44 PM
I like the screensaver on your PC...

That's all i have to say about it...

xROTx

PS. You suck at ROTD...:D

EDIT: So do I... blah de blah..

Razoola
10-23-2016, 03:56 PM
I know why you choose that game but I'll let others guess.

Raz

neosd
10-23-2016, 03:57 PM
And as "Youtuber" if you ask me :)





PS. You suck at ROTD...:D

EDIT: So do I... blah de blah..

neosd
10-23-2016, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't mind knowing if Pochi & Nyaa works on it!

Our pleasure to make you a video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnufa2AgOcQ

GadgetUK
10-23-2016, 06:08 PM
Our pleasure to make you a video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnufa2AgOcQ
Thanks! I ordered yesterday =D



I know why you choose that game but I'll let others guess.

Raz
That game has protection doesn't it? I did wonder about Super Side Kicks as well - that has a custom DIP on the board. The version of that game on the 138 in 1 doesn't work because of the protection. Not the end of the world because I have the original SSK but interested to know if that one works. Anyone know if that same protection on SSK is used on any other cart?

Razoola
10-24-2016, 02:02 AM
Thanks! I ordered yesterday =D

That game has protection doesn't it? I did wonder about Super Side Kicks as well - that has a custom DIP on the board. The version of that game on the 138 in 1 doesn't work because of the protection. Not the end of the world because I have the original SSK but interested to know if that one works. Anyone know if that same protection on SSK is used on any other cart?

Yes and a couple of other things also.

The protection used in SSK is used in another game more heavily.

Nostromo
10-24-2016, 02:30 AM
Yes and a couple of other things also.

The protection used in SSK is used in another game more heavily.

Rage of the Dragons?

Razoola
10-24-2016, 02:43 AM
No, its another older game. ROTD has newer type protections.

Raz

neosd
10-24-2016, 04:10 AM
Yes SSK and the other game protection is working.
It's actually working better than current emulators, because it's not returning fixed responses, but actually doing the right calculations. It actually doesn't change anything in gameplay, as games just send fixed values and expect fixed responses, but we wanted accurracy in the cart protections.

Thanks !

JMKurtz
10-24-2016, 06:26 AM
I'm interested in this product but I think your demand is going to be low at first because people want the plastic shell too. I won't place my order until both are available. I don't want to pay expensive shipping to the US twice.

What you should do is add a 3rd item to your store that is the boards + shell and have the shipping date set for December -- and I don't think people are going to be confused about a white or black shell - we're a pretty smart group of people. Just note that the white is the prototype and production shells will be black.

Jeff


Plasctic cases should be here first week of December (thats part of the contract we signed with the manufacturer), we wont let people buy those before we got the final units and people can see how those look, the pictures on the website are from prototype pieces done with plastic laser printer, so we dont want to confuse customers shipping a different color cases than the ones on pictures (final cases are going to be black).
Also, plastic cases are being built Europe aswel.

About demand, its too early to say how the demand is going to be, we will start shipping the first batch about 15 of November as stated on the webshop. I think we could produce more units before 20th of December, so if demand is not high from 15th November to first week of December, and then demand rises, we may have limited stock until January.

Hard to answer the question right now if you ask me.

Thanks !

Nostromo
10-24-2016, 06:34 AM
I'm interested in this product but I think your demand is going to be low at first because people want the plastic shell too. I won't place my order until both are available. I don't want to pay expensive shipping to the US twice.

What you should do is add a 3rd item to your store that is the boards + shell and have the shipping date set for December -- and I don't think people are going to be confused about a white or black shell - we're a pretty smart group of people. Just note that the white is the prototype and production shells will be black.

Jeff

I agree 100%. I will go ahead and order once I can buy the PCB with the shell. Maybe you can start taking pre-orders for them now?

JMKurtz
10-24-2016, 06:53 AM
Fatal Fury 2 - it also uses the CT0/SNK-9201 as a protection device.


Rage of the Dragons?

tcdev
10-24-2016, 07:06 AM
Hi there, I have actually seen your blog a while back but your pervious post made me aware of a couple of things that I missed. I really like your retro conversions.
Thanks. I've been away from the Neo Geo scene for quite some time - it was the news of the neosd flash cart that brought me back to find out more! ;)


I think you mentioned about the issues for devs with the CD system and having to use CD's to test on real hardware. I'm wondering if you saw our little PC-2-NEO project that hooks that hooks a PC to NeoGeo via the joystick port?...

You know, I saw mention of this a while back but didn't look too closely at it because I wasn't "into" Neo Geo development at the time. Part of the "problem" I have is that I have a rather broad interest as far as retro gaming/computers is concerned, and I tend to focus on one system for a while... for example most recently I've been writing a few ports for the TRS-80 Coco 3 (6809), including Knight Lore which of course I have all-but-ported to the Neo Geo as well.


One the dev side of this I have said it before and Ill say it again. One really needs a direct USB connection to the cart and in an ideal world all reagions which are ROM should be RAM and not FLASH in which some of that RAM would be battery powered when system off. Of course this is the ideal DEVcart which would not really be the ideal solution if you want to play games only...

To be honest I find emulation in general, and MAME/MESS specifically, preferable for 99% of my development work. You generally only need to test on real hardware at strategic points throughout the project lifecycle. I did find one issue with Donkey Kong not displaying properly on my NGCD when I burnt the first CD... fortunately it took only a few "guesses" (and CDRs) to locate the issue. OTOH the type of work you do, which is so closely related to the hardware and BIOS, and pushing the limits of both, would more likely benefit from such hardware than pure game development would! But agreed, I wouldn't turn down a dev cart if someone gave me one either! ;)


I like your thinking in that like me you have said to yourself 'if I'm going to add some hardware to the system, why not enhance the system in some way if I can while still keeping the original games 100% playable'. This is what I also do in my NeoGeo Land concept, there are now a couple of videos on youtube of this proof of concept (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTNlI2YWZs&t=14s) and a thread at http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?267341-NEOGEO-Land.

I've just taken the time to read through that thread in its entirety to understand what it is (and get side-tracked by the SSRPG English translation thread). Nice! Seems there is a lot of interest in it as well! No doubt the requisite hardware will appear! ;)

My enhancement isn't particularly exciting but does open up possibilities for ports of games that aren't really possible on the current hardware. More something an "old school" gamer like me might appreciate!


There is a thread on the techsupport forum showing an AES cart hooked upto an MVS and running with sprites also (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?260590-AES-to-MVS-(plays-AES-games-on-MVS)/page4). I remember there were some glitches with sprites but I'm sure they were resolved in the end. You might want to browse it as you will probably find it intresting.
That I did - thanks! Turned out pretty much as I suspected - the serialisation of the sprite data prevents it being latched soon enough for the MVS. The glitch issue still looks unsolved at this point. And going by the date on the thread, I think technically I did first! ;) Though of course I was simply testing the pinout on my adapter boards, rather than attempting a converter!


Back to the neosd though. I'm really impressed with what I have seen so far in the videos given how it handles the protected games without requiring patches inside the P1 ROM space to get them running. This is probably the main point about this flashcart. There is also correct 512k Fix tile handling for example, very nice given there are a couple of games that will not display correctly without this ability compared to the original games.
Yes, no doubt a large percentage of the development time has been reverse-engineering and implementing the various glue (including protection) in the cartridges. My prototype was designed to cater for the worst-case scenario, though of course there was a lot of the same work to do for me, and then devise the best way to implement that in a commercial product. Kudos again to neosd for sticking with it!

After reading comments in this and other (even unrelated) threads I'm getting enthused to return to the Neo Geo scene and even continue work on my flash cart. I've even got a few ideas for spin-offs or even forge ahead with my motherboard...

JMKurtz
10-24-2016, 07:07 AM
I've been following your blog in anticipation of your cart, but you've found out about "real life" so things slowed down.

I was hoping your cart would have RAM on the CHAR board, which would open up some new possibilities on the Neo. We've discussed a developer's cart on our end several times and a bitmap feature was always at the top of our list that we would want to implement.

I'm already using a FLASH cart for my development, but my cart can be built by anyone rather cheaply. It's simply a set of boards (AES and MVS) with sockets, and I'm using 42 pin DIP flash roms and a couple 32 pin FLASH roms for M1/S1. Sure, it's not as fancy as these carts being discussed, but it gets the job done and allows for testing on real hardware and since they're flash roms, no lengthy ERASE cycles with a UV lamp.

Hopefully you dust off your projects...you had some great ideas going.


I knew nothing about Darksoft's cart until a quick Google a few minutes ago. ;)

I've had a few back-and-forth emails overnight on the topic with my ex-colleague who was kind enough to review my schematic and do the PCB layout all that time ago. He has encouraged me to continue with the project despite the competition that has now surfaced. I still haven't made up my mind but I must admit, having not had much opportunity to work on retro-related hardware projects for quite some time, I've very tempted to ramp things up again. Having said that, the "no time and no money" issue is still a real factor in the equation.

What I will say though, is that my design actually had a couple of features not readily evident in the details that neosd has released thus far. One of course is support for the AES out-of-the-box, though it's also fair to say that my product is all still vapore-ware at this point! There was another feature that I added that I won't disclose at this point, but it actually enhanced the capabilities of the Neo Geo somewhat and is therefore very unlikely to be duplicated by someone else. Whether the enhancement is actually something anyone else would be interested I can't say, but it would only be of consequence to home brew developers specifically targeting my flash cartridge that wanted to take advantage of this feature. It goes without saying that I had a few ports in mind that would use this feature.

The flash cart itself started out as a spin-off from my motherboard project; something that I could (laughably now) produce sooner and for less outlay. I reasoned that it might be a means to fund the motherboard development, and also assist in the motherboard development itself.

Sadly (as far as this project is concerned), my circumstances changed rather dramatically over a short period of time and I found myself without the means or the time to continue. The current status is this; the MVS and AES adapter boards have been designed, manufactured, assembled and successfully tested. I have, for example, 'run' an AES cartridge in an MVS system (sans sprites of course) which has, as far as I know, never been done to this day (not that there's a lot of point to it without sprites). The flash cartridge (prototype) PCB has been designed and fully laid out - a cartridge would thus comprise two identical 'flash cartridge' PCBs and an adapter with fingerboards to plug into an AES/MVS. Note again; this is only the prototype. What needs doing is a final review of the schematics and PCB, check again that the parts we have used are still available, and order a prototype PCB manufacture and assembly run (6-8 boards in total).

I had also planned a couple of different variants of the cart, including a low-cost 'home brew' version that was incapable of playing commercial titles but allowed home brew developers to test and even produce titles on cartridge.

As for the motherboard project; many years ago I got a rudimentary system implemented on a terASIC DE2 that booted the BIOS and played Joy Joy Kid - again sans sprites - but you could actually coin up and see the game running via the FIX layer graphics. I have a mostly-complete schematic which was ridiculously over-engineered on purpose; a massive FPGA and both MVS and AES cartridge slots. It was (is?) to be the basis of many future FPGA projects, and the carts slots make perfect I/O board connectors!!!

Razoola
10-24-2016, 08:08 AM
Jeff, I'm guessing that a basic bitmap function on the NeoGeo would not actually be that hard if one was to use sprites to build the bitmap. You would of course be limited to the same limitations of sprites at 16 colors per 16x16 tile unless you layer sprites on top of each other, but it could be enough.

I would see that working by being able to bank in the bitmap RAM above 0x200000 to edit the bitmap, once you closed the RAM down the extra hardware would take that RAM and place it into the sprites used to build the bitmap. And bingo, as long as the sprites are displayed on screen as expected you have your bitmap.

edit...

Jeff, did you see the demo blaster did with 'chunky mode' effect. That basically adds bitmap and 3D support to the NeoGeo though sprite and palette abuse (although it is only only half resolution). The upside is that works with no hardware modification at all. See http://www.yaronet.com/topics/185841-chunky-mode-explanation-and-example-source#post-26

JMKurtz
10-24-2016, 08:41 AM
Yeah, saw blastar's work - amazing!



Jeff, I'm guessing that a basic bitmap function on the NeoGeo would not actually be that hard if one was to use sprites to build the bitmap. You would of course be limited to the same limitations of sprites at 16 colors per 16x16 tile unless you layer sprites on top of each other, but it could be enough.

I would see that working by being able to bank in the bipmap RAM above 0x200000 to edit the bitmap, once you closed the RAM down the extra hardware would take that RAM and place it into the sprites used to build the bitmap. And bingo, as long as the sprites are displayed on screen as ecpected you have your bitmap.

edit...

Jeff, did you see the demo blaster did with 'chunky mode' effect. That basically adds bitmap and 3D support to the NeoGeo though sprite and palette abuse (although it is only only half resolution). The upside is that works with no hardware modification at all. See http://www.yaronet.com/topics/185841-chunky-mode-explanation-and-example-source#post-26

fenikso
10-24-2016, 10:10 AM
I'm interested in this product but I think your demand is going to be low at first because people want the plastic shell too. I won't place my order until both are available. I don't want to pay expensive shipping to the US twice.

What you should do is add a 3rd item to your store that is the boards + shell and have the shipping date set for December -- and I don't think people are going to be confused about a white or black shell - we're a pretty smart group of people. Just note that the white is the prototype and production shells will be black.

Jeff

This is actually a really good idea. When I order I'll have no problem waiting for December to play, if it means that I'll have the shell, too. It'll save me from butchering up an MVS shell to use for one month before I order the real thing.

Rot
10-24-2016, 10:37 AM
I like the openness and details from neosd... but the proof will be in the pudding once Raz gets one of these units...

It's been a relatively stress free thread... I like that and I am SO GLAD Jeff is here...

No one argues with Jeff... and he LIKES things drama free...

xROTx

Montatez
10-24-2016, 10:45 AM
This is actually a really good idea. When I order I'll have no problem waiting for December to play, if it means that I'll have the shell, too. It'll save me from butchering up an MVS shell to use for one month before I order the real thing.

Im gonna wait as well until i can get a both.

Mendel
10-24-2016, 11:36 AM
quick question from someone who tends to fail a lot.

What happens if you power off (one way or another) during flashing?

GohanX
10-24-2016, 11:46 AM
Oh shit, a wild Kurtz appears!

Rot
10-24-2016, 11:50 AM
Oh shit, a wild Kurtz appears!

I'm taking a back seat now... thank fook...

Jeff can deal with this... his geeky nerd level is warp factor 11...

xROTx

PS. Let's admit it lads... I don't even know what the fook you'all are talking about with crc checks and dip protection...

EDIT. Jeff is an awesome nice guy... I'd appreciate you keep it drama fr33... I'd hate for him to PM my ass:D

Grendell
10-24-2016, 12:30 PM
@ neosd

will ther be a limit on how much mvs shells you can buy ? I guess there will be someone who buys plenty of shells to use it for other stuff ( if this shells take every mvs game pcb ) so maybe they are sold out bevor the neosd flashcard itself

The idea with the bundle would be cool

RAZO
10-24-2016, 12:40 PM
All this smart talk between tcdev, jeff, raz, and neoSD is giving me a hard on. Imagine all these guys working together on a project.

Nostromo
10-24-2016, 12:47 PM
I don't think the NeoSD should even be sold as PCB only :) - just some static electricity and people would be asking for refunds.

lherre
10-24-2016, 12:50 PM
@ neosd

will ther be a limit on how much mvs shells you can buy ? I guess there will be someone who buys plenty of shells to use it for other stuff ( if this shells take every mvs game pcb ) so maybe they are sold out bevor the neosd flashcard itself

The idea with the bundle would be cool

Take into account that neosd shells aren't exactly the same than regular mvs ones since they have the sd card slot.

Grendell
10-24-2016, 01:04 PM
I know but this slot should be tiny so most won't care :) and the aes style mvs replacement shell thread from shadowkn55 was realy popular

tcdev
10-24-2016, 03:31 PM
Jeff, I'm guessing that a basic bitmap function on the NeoGeo would not actually be that hard if one was to use sprites to build the bitmap. You would of course be limited to the same limitations of sprites at 16 colors per 16x16 tile unless you layer sprites on top of each other, but it could be enough.

I would see that working by being able to bank in the bitmap RAM above 0x200000 to edit the bitmap, once you closed the RAM down the extra hardware would take that RAM and place it into the sprites used to build the bitmap. And bingo, as long as the sprites are displayed on screen as expected you have your bitmap.
This is pretty much what I had in mind when I added an SRAM to my design, though I was "banking" on having the bitmap accessible by the 68K more-or-less permanently by interleaving accesses from the CPU and sprite buses (if possible).

Since I've already done a line-by-line translation of Space Invaders from 8080 to 6809 for the Coco3 (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/by-popular-demand-my-coco3-setup.html), I thought a 68K version would be a good demonstration of bitmap mode on the Neo Geo. Defender would be an even better one, albeit more work! ;)

lions3
10-24-2016, 03:52 PM
This is pretty much what I had in mind when I added an SRAM to my design, though I was "banking" on having the bitmap accessible by the 68K more-or-less permanently by interleaving accesses from the CPU and sprite buses (if possible).

Since I've already done a line-by-line translation of Space Invaders from 8080 to 6809 for the Coco3 (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/by-popular-demand-my-coco3-setup.html), I thought a 68K version would be a good demonstration of bitmap mode on the Neo Geo. Defender would be an even better one, albeit more work! ;)

keep this talk going. happy days.

If you create a working MVS rom of either Space Invaders or Defender i'm sending you a virtual beer (via paypal). It's just too random and awesome.

NeoTurfMasta
10-24-2016, 03:58 PM
This is pretty much what I had in mind when I added an SRAM to my design, though I was "banking" on having the bitmap accessible by the 68K more-or-less permanently by interleaving accesses from the CPU and sprite buses (if possible).

Since I've already done a line-by-line translation of Space Invaders from 8080 to 6809 for the Coco3 (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/by-popular-demand-my-coco3-setup.html), I thought a 68K version would be a good demonstration of bitmap mode on the Neo Geo. Defender would be an even better one, albeit more work! ;)

First, I have been following your blog for the last few years and love your projects.

Second, do you think you could port Ozma Wars since its SI based? I had always thought it would be nice to have SNK's "first" game put on Neo.

Atro
10-24-2016, 04:07 PM
I don't think the NeoSD should even be sold as PCB only :) - just some static electricity and people would be asking for refunds.

LOL.

You and your eternal electronics P-H-O-B-I-A. :keke::keke:

NeoTurfMasta
10-24-2016, 04:18 PM
Oh, how about testing Super Bubble Pop. I know it has some unique protection, just curious if it will work on there.

Xian Xi
10-24-2016, 06:09 PM
Second, do you think you could port Ozma Wars since its SI based? I had always thought it would be nice to have SNK's "first" game put on Neo.

This. I'd love to play it on the NEO.

hyper
10-24-2016, 07:11 PM
can u port netbsd to the mv1b while ur at it

tcdev
10-24-2016, 07:53 PM
If you create a working MVS rom of either Space Invaders or Defender i'm sending you a virtual beer (via paypal). It's just too random and awesome.
What, no love for Donkey Kong (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/dusting-off-neo-kong.html)?

tcdev
10-24-2016, 07:55 PM
First, I have been following your blog for the last few years and love your projects.

Second, do you think you could port Ozma Wars since its SI based? I had always thought it would be nice to have SNK's "first" game put on Neo.
Thanks! Ooh, didn't know about Ozma Wars, nor the link with SNK! That would be seriously cool - yes!!!

Not to derail this thread with OT banter, but Knight Lore was ported from the (Z80-based) ZX Spectrum to the (6502-based) Atari 800 by first running the code through a Z80-to-6502 translation tool. A tall order for a 1.8MHz 6502 to emulate a 3.5MHz Z80 and not surprisingly it did require some hand optimisations but ultimately it was successful and by all reports ran as fast as the original. With this in mind, I'd like to think that the Neo Geo would be capable of running auto-translated 2MHz 8080 code without much issue... maybe that's the way to go with Space Invaders and Ozma Wars???

Sorry, another edit, another tangent, but Knight Lore on the Neo Geo is actually a C port that I wrote as a direct translation of the original Z80 code. I contemplated doing the same for Space Invaders, but the code simply doesn't lend itself to a C implementation. Knight Lore was a really nicely written piece of code, and only jumped around in a few cases, and returned a few levels up the call stack once or twice. As a result, the C code is quite nice as well, mirroring the Z80 code quite closely. Space Invaders jumps all over the place, and has two ISRs which do much of the work; a C port wouldn't resemble the original code at all.

Would be interesting to crack open Ozma Wars and see how the code looks...

OK, last edit - I promise! Had a quick look at a YouTube video of the Ozma Wars gameplay. From what I saw, this could probably be ported to the Neo Geo without a bitmap layer, especially if the code is nicely written. In fact, for Space Invaders I contemplated attempting it, as 95% of the game consists of objects that could be translated to sprites. The sticking point in Space Invaders was the shields, and the damaged caused by player shots and alien bombs. I couldn't see a way of being able to replicate that with even a silly number of sprites. Note also that both Lode Runner and Knight Lore were originally written for bitmap systems, and it's fortunate that the nature of the game and the coding lent itself to the use of sprites instead. Ozma Wars could potentially do so as well.

Neodogg
10-24-2016, 08:50 PM
What, no love for Donkey Kong (http://retroports.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/dusting-off-neo-kong.html)?

That would kick ass!

Razoola
10-25-2016, 02:18 AM
To be honest I find emulation in general, and MAME/MESS specifically, preferable for 99% of my development work. You generally only need to test on real hardware at strategic points throughout the project lifecycle. I did find one issue with Donkey Kong not displaying properly on my NGCD when I burnt the first CD... fortunately it took only a few "guesses" (and CDRs) to locate the issue.

Sorry I missed your post yesturday tcdev.

This is right and I do it this way myself and so do many other devs. Its the most logical and easy way with the current tools available. Even with a SDcard based flashcart I don't see the dev process would change at all. PC-2-NEO thankfully removes the pain when testing on the neoCD, it would still be easier to use that over a SDcard based flashcart providing what your testing fits into the neoCD RAM spec.

Where a cart with USB/RAM comes in handy however (even if only the P ROM space is RAM) are the possibilities you are opened up to over using a flashcart with SDcard. For example with special MAME build;

1) Uploading to RAMcart directly from MAME debugger.
2) Easily set breakpoints on real hardware etc from debugger.
3) Uploading MAME savestates.
4) Pulling the 68k state/workram from the NeoGeo back into MAME for simple debugging from that state (within reason, some NeoGeo aspects are write only).
5) Tracing and single stepping on real HW while looking at the ASM in the MAME debugger.

The list goes on. For me, given I have worked in software house, I would probably want MAME in such a way that it was talking with the cart always over using its emulation aspects at all, MAME would be the host, the cart the slave and I would always execute on the cart.

This would be my dream setup with a RAMcart. I need to remember I'm a pure ASM programmer though and some of these things are probably no good for a dev working with libraries and compilers only.

oliverclaude
10-25-2016, 05:09 AM
All this smart talk between tcdev, jeff, raz, and neoSD is giving me a hard on. Imagine all these guys working together on a project.

To govern so many talents, one would need a highly skilled and experienced producer with upfront cash and charisma. Without one, conflicts are inevitable, mostly about money of course. A vision is so elusive, a producer ensures, that it stays in focus all the time. After all, it's not about perfection, it's about finishing and delivering the product the best way possible. The latter and the former are not the same thing.

Razoola
10-25-2016, 07:13 AM
neosd has now sent the NeoSD to me for through testing/review.

Nostromo
10-25-2016, 07:50 AM
And now we wait :)

blastar
10-25-2016, 01:44 PM
1) Uploading to RAMcart directly from MAME debugger.
2) Easily set breakpoints on real hardware etc from debugger.
3) Uploading MAME savestates.
4) Pulling the 68k state/workram from the NeoGeo back into MAME for simple debugging from that state (within reason, some NeoGeo aspects are write only).
5) Tracing and single stepping on real HW while looking at the ASM in the MAME debugger.
:buttrock:

Craig
10-25-2016, 01:47 PM
neosd has now sent the NeoSD to me for through testing/review.

Pretty excited to hear the verdict...

Tripredacus
10-25-2016, 02:00 PM
The list goes on. For me, given I have worked in software house, I would probably want MAME in such a way that it was talking with the cart always over using its emulation aspects at all, MAME would be the host, the cart the slave and I would always execute on the cart.

MAME Hypervisor?

neosd
10-25-2016, 03:18 PM
Hello guys,

We would like to anounce that our bank has finally removed all limits we had on our credit card payment system for USA cards.
For reasons we still dont know, we had a lot of no sense rules to stop transactions from USA and Canada credit cards, so some of you had trouble trying to purchase with those credit cards.

Thanks for your time and sorry for any inconveniences.

vaillian
10-25-2016, 04:11 PM
so when will AES come out ?

Kid Panda
10-25-2016, 04:13 PM
so when will AES come out ?



Tomorrow.

Rot
10-25-2016, 04:16 PM
so when will AES come out ?

One step at a time...

GEEZ... don't you read the thread?... the AES version isn't happening for a while (if ever..)...

We are WAITING on Raz's report...

xROTx

PS. The AES version will be a relativiley easy mod... I would assume...

EDIT: Now be a good n00b and just wait patiently on Raz's report.... like every other member... AND READ THE FOOKIN THREAD B4 you ask dumb quetsions...

hyper
10-25-2016, 05:44 PM
right neosd is not announcing any additional projects until completion (working product)

nornor1
10-25-2016, 06:03 PM
Whats the production batch run like? I get paid this friday, I hope there are still some left to make the 1st batch of carts. lol.

Archdesigner03
10-25-2016, 10:21 PM
Does the cart fit into a shockbox?

greedostick
10-25-2016, 10:32 PM
Does the cart fit into a shockbox?

They stated earlier it fits in a standard mvs shell if you cut a hole for the sd slot. So i would assume yes if you remove the sd card or cut a piece out you shockbox.

Shakepants
10-26-2016, 12:57 AM
So folks just need to sacrifice a crappy Chinese multi then.

neosd
10-26-2016, 01:41 AM
Whats the production batch run like? I get paid this friday, I hope there are still some left to make the 1st batch of carts. lol.

As today, we still got avaliable units for the first batch.
We will anounce when the first batch is sold. Take in mind that a batch takes 2-3 weeks to be produced, as soon as it gets sold we will produce more. We dont know how many we will be able to produce before christmas, it depends on the factories.


Thanks

neosd
10-26-2016, 01:43 AM
They stated earlier it fits in a standard mvs shell if you cut a hole for the sd slot. So i would assume yes if you remove the sd card or cut a piece out you shockbox.

Thats correct.
We dont have a shockbox, but we think that you dont have to remove the microsd to fit into it.

Thanks

Reclaimer
10-26-2016, 10:10 AM
Really tempted!

Looks great, and I have plenty of left over MVS shells to enclose the boards.

What's up with the payment option though? I'm always weary of some unknown overseas credit card processor.

jsiucho
10-26-2016, 12:38 PM
Cant wait for more news,, this really looks promising. and AES version would be ballz..

Gamefan
10-26-2016, 12:46 PM
Waiting on Raz's review of the PCB before looking to put money down.

Rot
10-26-2016, 12:49 PM
OK Lads... A quick update... the device is on it's way to Raz... he will roadtest the shit out of this.. SO PLEASE WAIT!

I have been asked about teh AES version... here's the deal... The AES version of this is relatively simple....

A few extra chips... a new pcb... same firmware...

BUT... I want to see RAZ'S report before you fucks start talking about an AES version... so plz chill the fuck out with that...

xROTx

cyd
10-26-2016, 12:56 PM
I read over the thread ... didn't see any mention so, I'll ask. Are the "Link-Up" communications lines present? I noticed the edge connector at the top of the pcb...

Fygee
10-26-2016, 12:58 PM
I was curious about that as well, unless those top edge connectors were used for something else during development.

cyd
10-26-2016, 01:20 PM
(Speculation) probably for reprogramming the fpga (/speculation) But, a guy can hope :) New system link games? Yes please!

rcantor77
10-26-2016, 04:20 PM
This is really cool... well done to NeoSD for getting this made.

Looking forward to hearing Raz's view on it later this week... :)

Dahun72
10-26-2016, 06:26 PM
OK Lads... A quick update... the device is on it's way to Raz... he will roadtest the shit out of this.. SO PLEASE WAIT!

I have been asked about teh AES version... here's the deal... The AES version of this is relatively simple....

A few extra chips... a new pcb... same firmware...

BUT... I want to see RAZ'S report before you fucks start talking about an AES version... so plz chill the fuck out with that...

xROTx

Am guessing you buys are enjoying the positive attention then LOL

massimiliano
10-27-2016, 02:56 AM
Trigger pulled, order has been made!

Rot
10-27-2016, 03:27 AM
Am guessing you buys are enjoying the positive attention then LOL

I am not here to argue with you...

The issue is the site has been looking at such a project for years... hence, I am keeping an eye on the thread...

xROTx

PS. Also.. snarky comments like that will defo get you noticed...

rcantor77
10-27-2016, 05:05 AM
So from what we know so far and until Raz has had a chance to to review... why is this device potentially better than the DS device..?

Assuming load times are similar, which tbh doesn't bother me... what to the user is a compelling reason to buy this over DS. From what I understand both will load the last loaded game on boot (like the existing CPS2 multi cart I have form DS).

The menu on the SD is functional and at the moment I suppose it is unknown how the DS device will work... will it be another LCD operated menu which tbh sucks, but again if you are not switching games that often is that really a problem.

The DS device loads ROMs from SD card as well.. and therefore does that have the potential to save high scores/soft dips also..?

The DS stores 4 games into memory so each can be switched to instantly like a multi slot board... as Raz raised earlier can the SD device be setup to do that..?

Is the game support likely to be different on these two devices.. I appreciate that both do not support NG: Dev games, which is a good thing, but can both run any unlicensed or new homebrew game or perhaps a specific hacked ROM. Or is one fixed to run only a specific ROM list..?

Nostromo
10-27-2016, 05:25 AM
With NeoSD, will it be technically possible to purchase legit ROMs from NG:Dev to run? So instead of buying the game for 500 Euro (or whatever they sell for), you'd buy the ROM at an acceptable price (for example 50 Euro) and run it on NeoSD. Assuming NG:Dev want to do that of course...

tcdev
10-27-2016, 05:28 AM
(Speculation) probably for reprogramming the fpga (/speculation)
I would agree, I can't see any other connector for getting firmware into the ARM and/or FPGA on there during development.

tcdev
10-27-2016, 05:48 AM
Is the game support likely to be different on these two devices.. I appreciate that both do not support NG: Dev games, which is a good thing, but can both run any unlicensed or new homebrew game or perhaps a specific hacked ROM. Or is one fixed to run only a specific ROM list..?

Because there are multiple banking schemes and protection schemes (potentially incompatible and conflicting between games), the FPGA needs to know which cartridge hardware to emulate when you load a game. There would have to be, in effect, a 'database' of supported games stored - presumably in the ARM - that recognises which game you've selected and activates the appropriate logic in the FPGA, or possibly even loads a complete new FPGA image. Not too dissimilar to the various drivers that comprise MAME's Neo Geo support. So support would, I believe, be limited to the "known & supported" commercial titles at this time. This is (also) how NGDEV titles remain unsupported and all-but-impossible to hack by a 3rd party to add support.

Note that it should be simple for neosd to release new firmware in the future to add support for new games should that become necessary, likely via SD card.

Now because not every game's cartridge hardware is unique in this respect, it is likely that one (FPGA) configuration is able to support multiple games. The simplest example is no custom banking and no protection which should also allow (most?) homebrew games to be supported. So either the firmware defaults to the simplest configuration for unknown games, or the homebrew developer needs to masquerade as another, compatible, title as one does when developing under MAME for example. The latter case is by no means convenient, but at least gets you up-and-running and I don't see any reason why neosd wouldn't add 'proper' support for homebrew titles if there isn't any already.

Razoola
10-27-2016, 05:57 AM
I want to make it very clear I will not be comparing in any way to what darksoft is planning in the review and playing one off the other and scoring points for each.

The review will be about the neoSD only given there is no reviewable product from darksoft I can compare against, all I have are quotes from ds on how he said it will work. It will be up to the readers to decide if its better than anything darksoft is potentially offering in the future. They will need to ask him directly if the review opens up queries and questions about if his device supports the same features as the neoSD, things that may be dealbreakers if it does not.

My opinion about which is better will not be part of the review. It will be up to potential buyers to choose which they want to invest in if they are in a position where they can only buy one or the other. All my review can do is tell you all about the neoSD. Is it really real? Can it do the things claimed and shown in the videos? What is great about it, its pros and cons, and areas it could be improoved etc.

My plan currently is to make many smaller posts during the review process so you can ask questions as I go along if needed, maybe I can test some things you request etc. Once I am done I will condence everything into one post which will be the overall review that can be used for reference.

I am hoping I can go through the SDcard setup process (using the conversion tool etc) before I receive the device so I can get straight onto testing the neoSD as soon as I receive it.

Razoola
10-27-2016, 06:17 AM
So from what we know so far and until Raz has had a chance to to review... why is this device potentially better than the DS device..?

There is no device from ds yet, so can only base on comments ds has said in relation to his device.

As tcdev correctly points out (in his pure speculation), there are protection systems and differences between neogeo games (espicially the later games) and you cannot simply have them all enabled all of the time. There are a few different ways you can handle that. I would say the way both devices go about this will ultimatly decide which is the best. The device that handles these things in the same way as an original cart (passes the unibios CRC32 check showing same CRC32 as original games for example) will ultimately be top dog. In the event that both use the same method to handle these things it will then come down to other things like, quickswapable games, loading times and usability etc.

GadgetUK
10-27-2016, 08:20 AM
Do you know what size of MicroSD it supports yet? I am guessing a 16Gb SDHC will work?

Rot
10-27-2016, 08:21 AM
EERR... Can I ask why we are comparing a non existent device to one that we have?

What... are you trying to create some drama here Rcantor? I mean... at least neosd is willing to talk to us and bend over backwards to reassure the community here...

Of course you can place a pre-order now for Darksofts non existent and non specification product... Not really bothered.

ALTERNATIVELY... you wait for Razoolas review.. without the bullshit drama...

If some of you feel you can't stay civil to neosd and everyone who's contributed to this thread... you can await the review in the War Room...

xROTx

RAZO
10-27-2016, 08:25 AM
With NeoSD, will it be technically possible to purchase legit ROMs from NG:Dev to run? So instead of buying the game for 500 Euro (or whatever they sell for), you'd buy the ROM at an acceptable price (for example 50 Euro) and run it on NeoSD. Assuming NG:Dev want to do that of course...

Lol

neosd
10-27-2016, 08:58 AM
Hello everyone,

There is a difference betwen tell users "we are going to give you everything you want" and to tell users "this is what you get right now. Real, true, working"
There is a difference betwen get users money when you dont know if you will be able to deliver a product, and get users money when you have it working.

We have shipped Razīs NEOSD two days ago, it has the software version we had two days ago, its still a work in progress firmware, we have tried every oficial game and all worked fine, if Raz finds a bug it will be fixed, if an user finds a bug on the final version, it will be fixed and we will issue an update.
In about 18 days when we meet release date and we ship final units, there will be more things done. But just now, we are not going to anounce anything that is not finished, tested and working.

Also, we would like to state that we have shipped Razīs cart without asking him nothing in exchange. If we would be other kind of people, we could fear in sending it to anyone with the skills of Raz.

Also, the cart has been designed from day one to allow homebrew. Developers interested on make neogeo games will have more possibilities with NEOSD than with anything else already built.

Thanks everyone for supporting us, "out of the blue" guys :)

neosd
10-27-2016, 09:00 AM
Do you know what size of MicroSD it supports yet? I am guessing a 16Gb SDHC will work?

Up to 32gbs, we just did some tests with 8-9 euros microsds (class 10) and noticed big differences betwen brands, we purchased Sony, Toshiba and Sandisk, all class 10 and Toshiba was 30 secconds faster than Sandisk loading Kof 2003.
Complete neo geo romset in neo format is about 9 gbs if i dont remember bad ...

neosd
10-27-2016, 09:17 AM
With NeoSD, will it be technically possible to purchase legit ROMs from NG:Dev to run? So instead of buying the game for 500 Euro (or whatever they sell for), you'd buy the ROM at an acceptable price (for example 50 Euro) and run it on NeoSD. Assuming NG:Dev want to do that of course...

Right now, this is only a comercial issue.

I think we can anounce that NeoSD has been designed to allow homebrew developers sell theyr games on our plataform, you will get more details once we have the first developer interested on do it. This function is built in NeoSD from day 0.

Thanks !

cyd
10-27-2016, 09:33 AM
NeoSD, does your product have I/O pins to use for "link-up" games such as thrash rally?

tcdev
10-27-2016, 09:34 AM
I think we can anounce that NeoSD has been designed to allow homebrew developers sell theyr games on our plataform, you will get more details once we have the first developer interested on do it. This function is built in NeoSD from day 0.
That's awesome to hear, though perhaps not surprising given the nature of the product, and your presumed desire to appeal to the biggest market possible! ;)

Assuming the homebrew developer doesn't require any custom cartridge logic to be supported, is it possible for the developer to release the ROMs and have them run on (pre-)existing NeoSD units? ie. No software/firmware updates required to support a new homebrew game?

DaytimeDreamer
10-27-2016, 09:37 AM
The fact that you are getting back to everyone's questions says a lot in my book.

And now we wait for Raz :)

hyper
10-27-2016, 09:54 AM
Darksoft has no prototype, he has offered no technical specifications. There are no details on design, hardware, software nothing. There is no indication that DS has any clue whatsoever on the engineering of neo-geo hardware at all.

He will have to purchase a neosd and study it thoroughly to get anywhere near producing a cartridge of his own design. I give him another 2 years, maybe.

Rot
10-27-2016, 10:08 AM
Might I suggest something here?

Let's focus on what we have in FRONT of us... which is neosd's project...

Discussing what anyone may or may not have is not gonna help here... in OTHER words... this thread is exclusively for the neosd product... all other talk should be refrained upon..

xROTx

RAZO
10-27-2016, 10:54 AM
Word

Nostromo
10-27-2016, 11:00 AM
Well said!

rcantor77
10-27-2016, 11:00 AM
EERR... Can I ask why we are comparing a non existent device to one that we have?

What... are you trying to create some drama here Rcantor? I mean... at least neosd is willing to talk to us and bend over backwards to reassure the community here...

Of course you can place a pre-order now for Darksofts non existent and non specification product... Not really bothered.

ALTERNATIVELY... you wait for Razoolas review.. without the bullshit drama...

If some of you feel you can't stay civil to neosd and everyone who's contributed to this thread... you can await the review in the War Room...

xROTx


Lol Rot... drama, me... I hate drama.

I just want to know more about the device and hear thoughts as to what each does/doesn't support.

I appreciate the DS device is not complete.. but he has delivered on all the rest so its probably a given it will materialise at some point.

So just trying to gain more info... especially around this device as this is here now and looks great.



One more question I do have neosd, what are you planning in terms of productions runs..? Are you just doing a pre-order runs and then that is it or are you planning to hold stock and keep making more as needed..? Cheers.

Kid Panda
10-27-2016, 12:07 PM
I am most certainly excited for this product. Mine is ordered as well.

mugenmidget
10-27-2016, 01:23 PM
Probably ordering this next month, looks great! Impressive work, neosd!

neosd
10-27-2016, 01:27 PM
If a developer wants to release a free game, it will work on ANY NEOSD cart provided it just uses a 'standard' neogeo cartridge (pre kof99), that is, 1 MB program, up to 8MB banks, 64 MB sprites, 16 MB audio samples (merged regions).

On the other hand, if a developer wants to sell a game rather than make it free, he will be able to lock a game for a certain NEOSD cart, so it will only boot in ONE or SOME carts.

Thanks



That's awesome to hear, though perhaps not surprising given the nature of the product, and your presumed desire to appeal to the biggest market possible! ;)

Assuming the homebrew developer doesn't require any custom cartridge logic to be supported, is it possible for the developer to release the ROMs and have them run on (pre-)existing NeoSD units? ie. No software/firmware updates required to support a new homebrew game?

JMKurtz
10-27-2016, 01:57 PM
This is great that you want to offer this! I would want a version of the NeoSD that is bare (no NeoSD menus or logos, no SD card support, etc.) and is basically a cart that I can attach a daughtercard (through a header connector or whatever) and program it, then detach the daughtercard and put the programmed boards into shell and package it for shipment...

This is one of the ideas we thought about if we were to make a flashable cart, but I was thinking through USB, much like NGDT's cart. But a cart with an attachable daughtercard with the capability to program it from an SD card is fine too. Just something I can remove so that the flashing (or reading) circuit is not present on the release cart.


If a developer wants to release a free game, it will work on ANY NEOSD cart provided it just uses a 'standard' neogeo cartridge (pre kof99), that is, 1 MB program, up to 8MB banks, 64 MB sprites, 16 MB audio samples (merged regions).

On the other hand, if a developer wants to sell a game rather than make it free, he will be able to lock a game for a certain NEOSD cart, so it will only boot in ONE or SOME carts.

Thanks

GohanX
10-27-2016, 02:03 PM
There are guys that make NES/SNES boards like that, that are basically single game flash carts. They're awesome, so much better than desoldering/soldering stuff from donor boards (and no more murdering Madden carts!)

neosd
10-27-2016, 02:35 PM
Asking about how many units are we going to manufacture gives no useful info to the audience here.

You can tell DS that we have put real money here, we have bought a PILE of chips, some are sitting in a corner at our office, others are on the factory right now waiting for the pcbs to be soldered at. Everyting payed upfront, before we showed NEOSD to the public.
So if the project is a sucess we will only have to deal with factory built times, and this sounds more easy than what it is. If its not, we could build other things with those, but not ANY other things, cause we have signed contracts that wont allow us to build massive destruction weapons (this is not a joke, even it sounds like it is :) ).

We have stated that the first goal of this project was to have a neo geo flashcart for once.
Part of the team, own other different companies, we made this cause we really wanted a NeoSD for us.
Seccond goal, and this is me talking about that, was to create a company to explore projects with other guys that i really think they are exceptional.
You have to be crazy to put the money and time we have put into this, or be crazy and want a neo geo flashcart as hard as we wanted.

We may fail as a company, even that users will have NEOSD, i can tell you we have already done much more than others to deliver the Neo Geo flashcart.

So love it or hate it, but here it is, the damn neo geo flashcart.

Thanks !


Lol Rot... drama, me... I hate drama.

I just want to know more about the device and hear thoughts as to what each does/doesn't support.

I appreciate the DS device is not complete.. but he has delivered on all the rest so its probably a given it will materialise at some point.

So just trying to gain more info... especially around this device as this is here now and looks great.



One more question I do have neosd, what are you planning in terms of productions runs..? Are you just doing a pre-order runs and then that is it or are you planning to hold stock and keep making more as needed..? Cheers.

Rot
10-27-2016, 02:48 PM
Lol Rot... drama, me... I hate drama.

I just want to know more about the device and hear thoughts as to what each does/doesn't support.

I appreciate the DS device is not complete.. but he has delivered on all the rest so its probably a given it will materialise at some point.

So just trying to gain more info... especially around this device as this is here now and looks great.



One more question I do have neosd, what are you planning in terms of productions runs..? Are you just doing a pre-order runs and then that is it or are you planning to hold stock and keep making more as needed..? Cheers.

I am losing my patience with you Darksoft cocksuckers...

Either stay on topic... or shut the fuck up...

I have told the forum... and they agree... this is the neosd thread.. NOT anything else... to make this AWESOME clear to you...

NEXT time you post... it better be on topic and awesome relevant... I don't really care if you like the drama or not OR if you're fudgepacking Darksofts anus...... I'll fookin make sure you stay in line...

xROTx

PS. FFS... dumbass UK n00bs...

RAZO
10-27-2016, 03:03 PM
Word up

neo-geo-mvs
10-27-2016, 03:24 PM
neosd, I do like it that you have released this product without any hype, BS and ultimately sent Raz a copy with no questions asked.

I look forward to seeing Raz's reviews and the potential your product has to offer.

Electric Grave
10-27-2016, 04:17 PM
So awesome to see everything working so nicely, I'm so pumped for this, tempted to jump the gun but I'm also interested in hearing from Raz when the time comes. Watch him give it the A-OK and everyone rush in, it's gonna be madness, lol.

rcantor77
10-27-2016, 04:21 PM
It certainly is going to be madness... once Raz has given his review there will be a huge number of people pressing the purchase button.

GadgetUK
10-27-2016, 05:25 PM
This is great that you want to offer this! I would want a version of the NeoSD that is bare (no NeoSD menus or logos, no SD card support, etc.) and is basically a cart that I can attach a daughtercard (through a header connector or whatever) and program it, then detach the daughtercard and put the programmed boards into shell and package it for shipment...

This is one of the ideas we thought about if we were to make a flashable cart, but I was thinking through USB, much like NGDT's cart. But a cart with an attachable daughtercard with the capability to program it from an SD card is fine too. Just something I can remove so that the flashing (or reading) circuit is not present on the release cart.


I totally agree! Also the idea that developers could lock the game to a particular NeoSD cart is just fantastic! I hope NGDEVTEAM go with that - I would quite like to buy Fast Striker, Neo XYX and Razion (not all might get a reprint), and this sounds like a great way to do it and it should be cheaper as theres no cart manufacturing etc.

Lastblade
10-27-2016, 09:05 PM
My body is ready.

poodude
10-27-2016, 09:41 PM
:tickled::mr_t::tickled:
My body is ready.

What orifice were you planning on putting your NEOSD cart?:tickled:

Nostromo
10-27-2016, 11:23 PM
That's exactly what I said a few posts up and I got laughed at.



I totally agree! Also the idea that developers could lock the game to a particular NeoSD cart is just fantastic! I hope NGDEVTEAM go with that - I would quite like to buy Fast Striker, Neo XYX and Razion (not all might get a reprint), and this sounds like a great way to do it and it should be cheaper as theres no cart manufacturing etc.

tcdev
10-28-2016, 12:19 AM
That's exactly what I said a few posts up and I got laughed at.
Trailblazers are always ridiculed at first... ;)

Arcade Magician
10-28-2016, 12:39 AM
Ok I'm just a NGCD owner... BUT! I have to congratulate the NeoSD Team! Thank you guys! Amazing project !


40138

AMike
10-28-2016, 03:06 AM
@neoSD
Is it possible to send you the money with IBAN & BIC Code? I've only American Express (I know bad idea in Europe, but it's a company card), paypal or banktransfer with IBAN. Thanks :)

aku
10-28-2016, 04:14 AM
hola..

what conversion/rename process is needed to get the roms working? i think you mentioned *.neo files and the fullset being 9gb? so i guess its the 9gb *.fba(s) renamed to to *.neo? :glee: (convert *.zip to *.fba, batch rename all *.fba to *.neo)

just to make sure: when the sd is in the pcb it fits into a normal mvs shell and there is no need for a insert slot etc.?

my plan: insert prepared sd, put the pcbs into a mvs shell, play.

thanks!

Kid Panda
10-28-2016, 05:02 AM
It uses the mame set that needs to be converted, using a tool that they supply. The SD card slot sticks out. You either use the cart they are making or cut a slot in a normal mvs cart. All of this was explained in this thread. Please read.

FilthyRear
10-28-2016, 05:21 AM
It uses the mame set that needs to be converted, using a tool that they supply. The SD card slot sticks out. You either use the cart they are making or cut a slot in a normal mvs cart. All of this was explained in this thread. Please read.

I'm gonna need a bigger SD card...

aku
10-28-2016, 05:31 AM
It uses the mame set that needs to be converted, using a tool that they supply. The SD card slot sticks out. You either use the cart they are making or cut a slot in a normal mvs cart. All of this was explained in this thread. Please read.

the "mame set" is only around 4 gb, he mentioned its around 9gb. the "mame set" converted to *.fba is around 9gb. so imho my question is valid.
when you check the layout of the pcbs you can see that the card might fit into a normal mvs shell. the insert slot of the neosd shell might be only "optional" for not taking out all screws when you take out the sd card. so imho my question is valid.

thanks.

neosd
10-28-2016, 05:43 AM
Hello,

The conversion process right now, works this way, we have a windows console app that does the job :




NeoBuilder
Usage:
Converting all MAME zip files in a directory: NeoBuilder -d Directory_absolute_path
Converting a MAME zip file: NeoBuilder zipfile_absolute_path
Converting a generic zip file: NeoBuilder -n GameName -m developer -y year -g genre zipfile_absolute_path


With the first option every mame rom in a folder gets converted, with the seccond option just one mame rom, and the last option allows you to change metadata on .neo header.

Of course, its pretty easy to provide 3 bat files to just double click and convert files.

About rom sizes, mame roms are compressed zips, .neo roms are uncompressed roms. Neobuilder just gets a mame .zip rom, uncompress all files inside, decrypt those if files are crypted and copies those one after one into a new .neo file.

I hope this answers the questions about how conversion works.

We have already sent neobuilder app to Raz, so he can examine the format of the converted files.

Thanks !

hola..

what conversion/rename process is needed to get the roms working? i think you mentioned *.neo files and the fullset being 9gb? so i guess its the 9gb *.fba(s) renamed to to *.neo? :glee: (convert *.zip to *.fba, batch rename all *.fba to *.neo)

just to make sure: when the sd is in the pcb it fits into a normal mvs shell and there is no need for a insert slot etc.?

my plan: insert prepared sd, put the pcbs into a mvs shell, play.

thanks!

neosd
10-28-2016, 05:47 AM
It uses the mame set that needs to be converted, using a tool that they supply. The SD card slot sticks out. You either use the cart they are making or cut a slot in a normal mvs cart. All of this was explained in this thread. Please read.

Thats correct !

Thanks !!

fluxcore
10-28-2016, 01:07 PM
decrypt those if files are crypted

Ah, so the ROMs it requires are not actually clean, but do get decrypted? Having a flash cart which can be supplied unmodified ROMs is something Razoola has been championing for a while, if I understand the situation correctly.

Razoola
10-28-2016, 01:31 PM
They have always said that this is the case. What they mean by unmodified is there are no patches applied to the data after it is decrypted. This means the data as the NeoGeo would see it is unaltered, identical to if it were encrypted on ROM. NeoGeo Land would do the same.

Razoola
10-29-2016, 06:14 AM
I will be shortly post up (in this thread) my review of the Neobuilder tool as of the version I have been given. This is a review of the conversion process only and nothing more given I do not have a NeoSD to actually verify the .neo files work at this time.

Razoola
10-29-2016, 07:41 AM
ROM conversion for storage on SDcard.

Before we can use the NeoSD we need to have at least one game stored on the SD card. Let's go through the process of doing this now as without Neo Geo ROMs to load, the NeoSD has no more use than making a good door wedge.

This will hopefully be a painless operation and very simple. I will need to use a conversion tool and have access to the Neo Geo ROM library as used in MAME available (in my case that's split sets). The tool should find Neo Geo ROMs from the selected directory (in zips) and then store each game into a single new .neo format file for storage on the SD card. I'm told it will not matter if non Neo Geo game ROMs are also in the MAME ROM directory as they will be skipped. Any encrypted Neo Geo ROMs are decrypted during the conversion process and I am assured apart from this no patching is applied to remove game protections for known protection mechanisms. I will be confirming this claim is accurate later by using the Universe Bios game cart CRC check as it's a bold claim indeed.

The tool I have been given is command line based and only needs to run once to convert the MAME Neo Geo library. You must have the 32bit Microsoft C++ redistributable installed (even on a 64bit OS) or you'll see problems with the conversions. This can be obtained from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=53587.

I guess the tool should reject any ROM it finds with a bad CRC32 compared to the expected MAME ROM. Thus not creating the .neo file for the game in question when that happens. The tool should also be able to build .neo files for Neo Geo ROMs that are not in MAME and the usage information seems to confirm this.

NeoBuilder Usage:

Converting all MAME zip files in a directory:


NeoBuilder -d Directory_absolute_path

Converting a MAME zip file:


NeoBuilder zipfile_absolute_path

Converting a generic zip file:


NeoBuilder -n GameName -m developer -y year -g genre zipfile_absolute_path

The first two options are purely related to the conversion of Neo Geo games as they are used in the MAME emulator. The third option (generic) is used to create .neo files for Neo Geo games and revisions which are available but not supported by MAME (Metal Slug 2 Turbo for example).

Ok, let's give it a go.

I have a class10 16GB ScanDisk Ultra micro (HC) SDcard ready to go (8GB card is not large enough to store all games). Check... The Neo Geo MAME ROM library based on version .179. Check... Command line prompt pointing to the directory holding the conversion tool. Check...


neobuilder -d c:\neogeo

I twiddled my thumbs for 5 minutes while the conversion process took place. The created .neo files were placed into the same directory as the tool and not the directory holding the zipped ROMs. Errors were displayed on screen during the conversion process in the command line window. Given the amount of ROMs being converted (or skipped) during this process a generated error.txt file which automatically opens once the process is complete would be a very helpful addition.

At the moment I can see the tool revision I have does not convert every single MAME Neo Geo ROM, some bootlegs and other games were skipped. I have queried this already and have been told they will be converted in a future version of the tool. At the moment they are concentrating on original games over bootlegs as they have other priorities to take care of. A couple of notable exceptions I spotted were dragonsh (darkseed) and kf2k3pcb were not converted. Irrmaze (The Irritating Maze) also threw up a CRC32 error but the .neo file was still built, I assumed this would not be the case.


The irrmaze issue is caused by the tool being based on a previous version of MAME so this issue will for sure be fixed before release. I thought it would be a good idea however to see if I could use the other features of NeoBuilder to fix this game (bear in mind only more advanced users are likely to use this feature). I did the following after changing the ROM zip name;


neobuilder -n "The Irritating Maze" -m "SNK / Saurus" -y 1997 -g Other c:\neogeo\irrmazea.zip

Indeed it did create a nice new .neo file but on inspecting it I could see it was not correctly created compared to the other with bad CRC32. The problem relates to the P ROM in this game having a 2MB P1. The tool had placed the P1 and P2 area of the ROM into the .neo file in the wrong order. All I had to do however was alter the P ROM data to match the generic format (P1,P2 and not P2,P1), then run the tool again and the correct .neo file was created.

The only remaining issue was a screenshot not being added in, I have let them know an option (maybe "-s") to choose a screenshot may be an idea. I manually edited the .neo file myself to do it.

I could also create the Dragons Heaven/DarkSeed .neo using the same tool but I first had to interleave EP1 / EP2, add a buffer M1 and V1 into the zip and do some ROM renaming. Once done the builder spat out a dragonsh.neo which looks ok, I used the following to build it;


neobuilder -n "Dragons' Heaven / Dark Seed" -m "Prototype" -y 1997 -g Fighting c:\neogeo\dragonsh.zip

In case you are interested, the following genres are currently available in NeoBuilder as options;


Other, Action, BeatEmUp, Sports, Driving, Platformer, Mahjong,
Shooter, Quiz, Fighting, Puzzle.

Once all the ROMS were converted I simply copied the .neo files onto the SDcard which should be formatted in the FAT32 format. Now all that is left to do is plug it into the SDcard slot on the side of the NeoSD.


Conclusion

The NeoBuilder tool as it stands now does a good job converting the official Neo Geo games used in MAME. I'm told it should be updated at some point to have a GUI, this should make the process more straightforward for some. NeoBuilder is a little bit awkward however when trying to convert games not in MAME or in a different format than the tool expects. There are a couple of clone sets in WinKawaks for example that are not in MAME. I ended up simply copying the .neo file of the parent. Then changing its internal game name and pasting the different ROM directly over the data already in the .neo file (using a hex editor). For me personally it was easier doing it this way than using the tool given I had an almost accurate .neo file to work with.

In the end the tool was what I expected based on what I was told. It's not the final version I must stress so I expect to see it getting better in the coming weeks. To recap some changes/additions that would be helpful in my personal opinion after my first experience;


When using either option related to converting MAME ROMs, do not create the .neo file when a needed ROM fails the CRC32 check during conversion process (regardless of ROM type). The Generic conversion process however should never check a ROMs CRC32 (which is how it appears to work already).
Creation of an error.txt file which is opened after the MAME ROM conversion process competes.
The generic creation of .neo files being a little more advanced in checking of a few known instances of how data is stored in Neo Geo ROMs. 2MB P1 for example where P1 data is from 0x100000 - 0x1FFFFF and P2 from 0x00000 0xFFFFF.
The addition of an "-s" option when creating from generic ROMs so the user can choose a screenshot from one of those available. This could be done by choosing a ROM set game the converter understands that has a screenshot. For example "-s kof94" would give the kof94 screenshot to the created .neo.

GadgetUK
10-29-2016, 08:13 AM
Great work Raz! One thing that bothers me though - if its changed to not output a .neo file if the CRC32 doesnt match, how do we get modified games onto the cart? I am thinking about the Metal Slug 2 turbo P1 etc - my first thought was to take the MAME ROM for that game then just swap out the P1.

Razoola
10-29-2016, 08:45 AM
Great work Raz! One thing that bothers me though - if its changed to not output a .neo file if the CRC32 doesnt match, how do we get modified games onto the cart? I am thinking about the Metal Slug 2 turbo P1 etc - my first thought was to take the MAME ROM for that game then just swap out the P1.

You would use the generic option to create the .neo files for games like that (mslug2t is not in MAME). The generic ROM conversion would not be expected to check a CRC32 like a Neo Geo MAME game given some ROM CRC's may be unknown to MAME.

The problem I foresee if it is left the way it is now is people can create .neo files that don't work correctly due to corrupted ROMs used in the conversion process (from known good MAME ROMs). It has already happened I believe in the kof2003 video neosd posted showing the the unibios crc check failing on a banked region. That was down to a corrupted file on the SD card.

So for me, stopping the creation of .neo Files during the MAME conversion helps protect the user against making bad .neo files without realising it. The error should still be reported to the user however so they can take steps to fix the bad ROM and try again.

Electric Grave
10-29-2016, 11:33 AM
Noice, we're heading in the right path! Thanks Raz!

tcdev
10-30-2016, 07:10 AM
So for me, stopping the creation of .neo Files during the MAME conversion helps protect the user against making bad .neo files without realising it. The error should still be reported to the user however so they can take steps to fix the bad ROM and try again.
Or alternatively, a command-line option that forces creation of .neo files with bad CRC... might make both camps happy?

Razoola
10-30-2016, 07:23 AM
The issue with crc32 I brought up is only in relation to the two options in NeoBuilder related to MAME ROMs. These two options are building games from known ROM dumps with known CRC's so it clearly knows when a CRC32 is bad.

The third option (generic) is different and not related to MAME at all. It cannot have a CRC32 checking function given it may have no idea what the ROM is. That does not stop you however using this option to build a .neo from a Neo Game ROM zip used in MAME.

I can see why it might be hard to grasp what I'm saying given not many have used the tool but when you understand how it works (MAME or generic) you understand even with the CRC32 check and block during MAME ROM conversion like I suggest (when CRC32 fails), you can still use the 3rd option (generic) to build a .neo file with a ROM that would fail a MAME CRC32 check.

I think I will edit the review slightly to make this point more apparent, I can kind of see where the confusion is coming from.

Nostromo
10-30-2016, 07:34 AM
Raz does your Crossed Swords 2 conversion work? Thanks!

Kid Panda
10-30-2016, 07:40 AM
Raz does your Crossed Swords 2 conversion work? Thanks!



I don't think he has the NeoSD in his hands yet. But I don't think there should be an issue with it running.

Razoola
10-30-2016, 07:53 AM
I have amended this part of the review related to my suggestions a little more clear, now states.

'When using either option related to converting MAME ROMs, do not create the .neo file when a needed ROM fails the CRC32 check during conversion process (regardless of ROM type). The Generic conversion process however should never check a ROMs CRC32 (which is how it appears to work already)'

Razoola
10-30-2016, 07:59 AM
Raz does your Crossed Swords 2 conversion work? Thanks!

I would be very surprised if Crossed Swords 2 did not work and there is not a single reason I can think of as to why it would not work.

Nostromo
10-30-2016, 11:35 AM
What I mean is if Neobuilder detects and repackages the game correctly :)

Razoola
10-30-2016, 12:44 PM
it was created in the MAME conversion so I guess it will be ok.

Nostromo
10-30-2016, 02:20 PM
Awesome, thanks!

GadgetUK
10-30-2016, 03:36 PM
I have to admit being slightly concerned that it needs a specific MAME ROM set - I've got a full set of ROMs already but I am betting that the filenaming of the ROMs in the zips will not match despite the ROMs being the correct CRC. Does it give any clues to the file it cannot find - that way I can modify my ROM sets to get the files named correctly?

Razoola
10-30-2016, 04:21 PM
If you got the set used in MAME and you use clrmame pro all the ROMs should be named ok. I think in the end the reality will be not many people will use the neobuilder to make the files as somone will host the .neo files ready made somewhere.

massimiliano
10-30-2016, 04:33 PM
I think in the end the reality will be not many people will use the neobuilder to make the files as somone will host the .neo files ready made somewhere.

this...at that point we would basically need only one MD5, from the (trusted) source of the bundle.

GadgetUK
10-31-2016, 03:51 AM
I just had bad experiences previously trying to sort out the madness of MAME ROM sets - even using that clrmame tool. I suspect with the neo geo roms it might not be so much of a problem because most seem to have been good dumps right from the start, whereas other arcade systems had many boots and corrupted roms etc - that's probably where I had trouble I think.

neosd
10-31-2016, 09:11 AM
I read over the thread ... didn't see any mention so, I'll ask. Are the "Link-Up" communications lines present? I noticed the edge connector at the top of the pcb...

That connector is used to program the chips.
Theoretically, it could be used to create a serial port to allow game linking, for games that support linking.
We say theoretically, because we have not tried it, so we dont know if it will work.
Neosd would need a small pcb adapter with a transceiver and connectors for the link attached to this connector, it is something that we want to try, yes, but its sitting at the end of the priority list right now.
No one should buy NEOSD expecting this functionality, this does not mean that we are not going to deliver it, we would like to see if it is possible at some point.

Thanks

cyd
10-31-2016, 09:36 AM
Thank you for your reply neosd.

nio
10-31-2016, 01:00 PM
Is this save or a ripoff?

Rot
10-31-2016, 01:06 PM
Is this save or a ripoff?

Wut?

Do you mean... "Is this safe or a ripoff?"

The project looks legit... but we are waiting on Razoola's product review... and you can make your own decisions from there...

xROTx

nio
10-31-2016, 01:21 PM
yes sorry for my broken english. when i spend my money on it. will i get a working product or will i cry because i have thrown money out of the window?

GadgetUK
10-31-2016, 01:28 PM
Is this save or a ripoff?
If its a fake its an absolute master piece of fakery - sure the videos could be faked, but the PCB layout looks absolutely geniune to me. The site that first reviewed it is credible, so I would say its safe to order one.

Rot
10-31-2016, 01:32 PM
yes sorry for my broken english. when i spend my money on it. will i get a working product or will i cry because i have thrown money out of the window?

Razoola will have the neosd product soon... he will review it...

As long as you don't believe Razoola is a scammer or such... then you can make your own decisions from there...

Just be patient my young n00b Padawah...

xROTx

PS. RELAX... it's all good fun...

nio
10-31-2016, 01:39 PM
Haha, Razoola is 100% legit! I have his bios for every console, the cd2pc thingy and the CSII for MVS. :-)

GohanX
10-31-2016, 02:25 PM
yes sorry for my broken english. when i spend my money on it. will i get a working product or will i cry because i have thrown money out of the window?

If you aren't sure, wait. Razoola will get his review unit soon, and other people will get their first batch units in a few weeks. At that point if there are any major problems to iron out it will be found out, or if it was some elaborate scam like the Fusion converter, we'll know about it. Being a first adopter contains certain risks.

lachlan
10-31-2016, 04:27 PM
If this works out I would be tempted to part with the last of my carts for this.

pegboy
10-31-2016, 05:59 PM
Someone call me when the AES version is available.

greedostick
10-31-2016, 08:27 PM
I'll be posting whether or not it works with the Daedalus, starting with the most expensive/popular games. Metal Slugs, Garou, Blazing Star, Pulstar, TSS, etc... So if anyone is waiting on that information, I will be on it ASAP. Got to fingure out CLRMAMEPRO though. Managing MAME Roms is not my strong point.

Hopefully Raz's review goes good, cause I already ordered.

tcdev
10-31-2016, 09:12 PM
If its a fake its an absolute master piece of fakery - sure the videos could be faked, but the PCB layout looks absolutely geniune to me.
The prototype looks absolutely nothing like a HICAP50B CCTV capture card... ;)

Fygee
11-01-2016, 12:20 AM
The prototype looks absolutely nothing like a HICAP50B CCTV capture card... ;)

40233

goombakid
11-01-2016, 12:27 AM
40233
Yes he diiiiiiiiiiiiid! :keke:

Man, this is exiting! Eagerly waiting Raz's review.

neosd
11-01-2016, 02:28 AM
Yes he diiiiiiiiiiiiid! :keke:

Man, this is exiting! Eagerly waiting Raz's review.

40234

Razoola
11-01-2016, 02:42 AM
Looking forward to reveive it :)

neosd
11-01-2016, 03:53 AM
Looking forward to reveive it :)

Our pleasure !!

We would like to anounce that we have started working on adding bootlegs/hacks support to NEOSD (right now the goal is to get all bootlegs/hacks on MAME working, others will follow once we have finished with MAME ones).
As today we already have most of MAME bootlegs/hacks working and we think all those should be supported by launch day (15h November). We will upload some videos next Saturday, to show bootlegs/hacks running.

The software we have sent into Razoolaīs NEOSD, it was last weekīs version, so it didnt have bootlegs/hacks supported. It just had ALL comercial games working.

Thanks !!

Razoola
11-01-2016, 04:08 AM
I just had a call from UPS, there is a chance I get the neoSD this afternoon/evening all going well.

BerryTogart
11-01-2016, 04:54 AM
I just had a call from UPS, there is a chance I get the neoSD this afternoon/evening all going well.

:snack: Looking forward to the review!

Nostromo
11-01-2016, 05:26 AM
40235

hyper
11-01-2016, 06:23 AM
:eye::eye:

Rot
11-01-2016, 10:10 AM
It has arrived... Raz is currently... doing his 'thang..

I assume he's making notes on his notepad...

xROTx

PS. He has TERRIBLE handwriting man... geez..

fenikso
11-01-2016, 10:22 AM
Noice.

Razoola
11-01-2016, 11:42 AM
Just a quick message to say now that I have received the NeoSD for review. After an hour of quick testing. So far, it is real, it does load and play original versions of games.

GadgetUK
11-01-2016, 11:43 AM
Awesome!!! =D

Fygee
11-01-2016, 11:45 AM
Woo hoo! Looking forward to the detailed review once you've dived deeper.

greedostick
11-01-2016, 11:53 AM
Getting pumped!

Kid Panda
11-01-2016, 12:09 PM
Glad I ordered mine. Can't wait.

MattBlah
11-01-2016, 12:19 PM
I can't believe I missed this topic. I need to pay more attention.

I've just read through all 18 pages (slow day at work) and this sounds really exciting.

One question; As someone who never uses ROMs or MAME, how easy would this be to set up for a complete n00b? I'm interested in placing an order, but I have always played games on original hardware, and have no knowledge on loading ROMs, etc. The technical talk here just looked like gibberish to me.

DaytimeDreamer
11-01-2016, 12:21 PM
I can't believe I missed this topic. I need to pay more attention.

I've just read through all 18 pages (slow day at work) and this sounds really exciting.

One question; As someone who never uses ROMs or MAME, how easy would this be to set up for a complete n00b? I'm interested in placing an order, but I have always played games on original hardware, and have no knowledge on loading ROMs, etc. The technical talk here just looked like gibberish to me.

I guess Raz will answer this in his review. Not too much left now, patience ;)

Razoola
11-01-2016, 12:42 PM
I'm looking for somone with an MVS + UniBios and an original SVC or kof2003 cart to drop me a PM or pop into chat if your ok to test something for me (unibios related). Thanks in advance.

Fogueman
11-01-2016, 01:19 PM
Please Razoola can you answer an easy question ? I think lots of us are waiting for the response

Does NeoSD work with the mvs converter Magic Key?

Razoola
11-01-2016, 01:30 PM
I have no idea at this point.

greedostick
11-01-2016, 01:53 PM
I have svc aes original, and unibios. If that will help i can test after work late tonight.

Razoola
11-01-2016, 02:07 PM
Im not sure that will because that version of the game is not dumped yet and it may be different.

Razoola
11-01-2016, 02:15 PM
For those that asked, Crossed Swords 2 and Dragons heaven/Dark Seed work.

aku
11-01-2016, 02:21 PM
...
Hopefully Raz's review goes good, cause I already ordered.

of course it does. personally i dont have any doubts that the neosd cart will be an excellent product.

ps: i have a mvs, unibios 3.3 and kof2003...

greedostick
11-01-2016, 02:27 PM
of course it does. personally i dont have any doubts that the neosd cart will be an excellent product.

ps: i have a mvs, unibios 3.3 and kof2003...

Im feeling pretty positive as well. The universe is finally aligning for the Neo Geo fans.

aha2940
11-01-2016, 03:18 PM
I'm looking for somone with an MVS + UniBios and an original SVC or kof2003 cart to drop me a PM or pop into chat if your ok to test something for me (unibios related). Thanks in advance.

I have original KoF2003 MVS and UniBIOS 3.3 on a 2-slot. Can test after work tonight.

Razoola
11-01-2016, 05:26 PM
Here is a list of a few of the protected games I have tested so far. Metal Slug X is the only game failing the crc32 check so far due to patching into the P ROM. NeoSD did mention about this in the thread pages back and he plans for this to be fixed as soon as the protection mechanics of the game are understood.

I don't have the fasted SD card on the market so some of these times can be improoved apon with a better card. It's worth keeping in mind these are the biggest NeoGeo games though. I have not yet fully checked sound but so far it feels spot on.




Game Abbreviation UniBios CRC32 SOUND Flash Time
----------------- ------------- ----- ----------
KOF 98 PASS GOOD 4:02
KOF 99 PASS GOOD 4:14
KOF 2000 PASS GOOD 4:30
KOF 2001 PASS GOOD 3:54
METAL SLUG X FAIL (P1 ROM) GOOD 2:58
METAL SLUG 3 PASS GOOD 4:30
METAL SLUG 4 PASS GOOD 3:20
SAMURAI SHODOWN 5 PASS GOOD 4:28
SAMURAI SHODOWN 5SP PASS GOOD 4:26
GAROU PASS GOOD 4:38
MATRIMELEE PASS GOOD 3:55
ROTD PASS GOOD 4:15
SUPER SIDE KICKS PASS GOOD 0:34
FATAL FURY 2 PASS GOOD 0:51

Kid Panda
11-01-2016, 05:46 PM
Nice, the list is looking good!

munchiaz
11-01-2016, 06:09 PM
looking great. Thanks for all the comments Raz.

Rot
11-01-2016, 06:15 PM
OK...

Just a quick thingy... neosd says he's sorta busy fulfilling pre-orders...

ALL the bugs will be fixed as he promised... but it's important he fulfils the pre-orders... and everything else will be done in time...

xROTx

PS. If this project goes well and the forum agrees to it..... I will create a specific place for this in the tech forums just like for Raz's unibios...

cmoliveira
11-01-2016, 07:02 PM
Here is a list of a few of the protected games I have tested so far. Metal Slug X is the only game failing the crc32 check so far due to patching into the P ROM. NeoSD did mention about this in the thread pages back and he plans for this to be fixed as soon as the protection mechanics of the game are understood.

I don't have the fasted SD card on the market so some of these times can be improoved apon with a better card. It's worth keeping in mind these are the biggest NeoGeo games though. I have not yet fully checked sound but so far it feels spot on.




Game Abbreviation UniBios CRC32 SOUND Flash Time
----------------- ------------- ----- ----------
KOF 98 PASS GOOD 4:02
KOF 99 PASS GOOD 4:14
KOF 2000 PASS GOOD 4:30
KOF 2001 PASS GOOD 3:54
METAL SLUG X FAIL (P1 ROM) GOOD 2:58
METAL SLUG 3 PASS GOOD 4:30
METAL SLUG 4 PASS GOOD 3:20
SAMURAI SHODOWN 5 PASS GOOD 4:28
SAMURAI SHODOWN 5SP PASS GOOD 4:26
GAROU PASS GOOD 4:38
MATRIMELEE PASS GOOD 3:55
ROTD PASS GOOD 4:15
SUPER SIDE KICKS PASS GOOD 0:34
FATAL FURY 2 PASS GOOD 0:51

Thanks for the info Raz! Darksoft said on the arcade-projects forums that the longest load time on his Multigame Cart is 12 seconds (currently). Looks like there will be some healthy competition in this space and that's good for all of us. :buttrock:

hyper
11-01-2016, 07:34 PM
awesome! Darksoft can u post some footage here to conf..

._.

goombakid
11-01-2016, 09:08 PM
So exciting! Can't wait to see the full review, Raz!

I might have to start selling stuff to invest in this thing.

Nostromo
11-02-2016, 01:37 AM
Hi Raz, does Metal Slug X run despite failing CRC? Thanks!

Razoola
11-02-2016, 01:53 AM
Hi Raz, does Metal Slug X run despite failing CRC? Thanks!

Yes.

Nostromo
11-02-2016, 01:55 AM
Ok thanks!

neosd
11-02-2016, 01:56 AM
Thanks for the info Raz! Darksoft said on the arcade-projects forums that the longest load time on his Multigame Cart is 12 seconds (currently). Looks like there will be some healthy competition in this space and that's good for all of us. :buttrock:

Dear Darksfot,

We can license you our technology, but sorry to tell you that its not possible to load and flash 100mb games from SD card in 12 secconds.
You are going to need atleast about 30 secconds just to read a 100mb game from the SD card, you are also going to need time to erase and flash chips.

Depending on which technology you choose, this will be faster or slower. If you choose RAM, erase and flash will be faster, but you will have to read, erase and flash the chips every time you power on the device. If you choose flash, you will be able to power off and keep the game flashed when you power on. Thats why we have choosen flash, cause with flash you dont have to write the game again every time you power off the neo geo.
We know you will notice that when you reach the point where you need to read game file from SD to write it on flash, we hope you reach that stage before 2017 ends.


Anything we can do for you, just let us know, we are open to answer any question your may have.

Thanks !

lherre
11-02-2016, 02:08 AM
Yes, I can confirm it too.

neosd
11-02-2016, 02:08 AM
Thanks Rot,

We would definitely love to have a drama free place where to discuss what people want to get improved on NEOSD, to analyze and discuss if those improvements are technically possible to implement.

So far, neo-geo.com has been an incredible place to get in touch with neo geo comunity.

We are glad to be arround.



OK...

Just a quick thingy... neosd says he's sorta busy fulfilling pre-orders...

ALL the bugs will be fixed as he promised... but it's important he fulfils the pre-orders... and everything else will be done in time...

xROTx

PS. If this project goes well and the forum agrees to it..... I will create a specific place for this in the tech forums just like for Raz's unibios...

Razoola
11-02-2016, 03:11 AM
Thanks for the info Raz! Darksoft said his Multigame Cart is 12 seconds (currently). Looks like there will be some healthy competition in this space and that's good for all of us. :buttrock:

Here is the thing about loading times. and I have posted this already.

Put it into prospective, CPS-3 takes about 30 minutes to load a game.

I get it though, loading times may be important for some.. Is this the reason your buying a flashcart though, is it a top priority must factor? For those serious about wanting accurate games on a flashcart (and after all this is the main complaint relating to the 161in1 etc). I would say your number one priority is not loading times but making sure games loaded onto the flashcart do pass the unibios gamecart CRC32 check and play 100% correctly as the original. You need to make sure your purchase/potential purchase is doing the fundemental things correctly before making loading times such a priority.

12 seconds to load a game is slow compared to a 161in1 afterall, espicially if both devices can only play some games that fail the unibios crc32 check.

lherre
11-02-2016, 03:26 AM
Here is the thing about loading times. and I have posted this already.

Put it into prospective, CPS-3 takes about 30 minutes to load a game.

I get it though, loading times may be important for some.. Is this the reason your buying a flashcart though, is it a top priority must factor? For those serious about wanting accurate games on a flashcart (and after all this is the main complaint relating to the 161in1 etc). I would say your number one priority is not loading times but making sure games loaded onto the flashcart do pass the unibios gamecart CRC32 check and play 100% correctly as the original. You need to make sure your purchase/potential purchase is doing the fundemental things correctly before making loading times such a priority.

12 seconds to load a game is slow compared to a 161in1 afterall, espicially if both devices can only play some games that fail the unibios crc32 check.

Yeah, is like "emulators" you can have 100% original emulation but the resources to do that (100% accuracy) are astronomically more demanding than the things the regular emulators often do.

This is the same, you want a 100% original experience/accuracy, you will have some loading times (and as you see it depends on the game), if not you have another choices.

Rot
11-02-2016, 03:31 AM
Here's my view on this whole affair and thread...

This announcement came out of the blue... and Raz and others asked me to oversee this thread...

After the LAST shitfest... I really didn't want too... but you can't always get what you want around here....

As I SEE it... this thread has been pretty much drama free and I'd appreciate it if everyone kept it this way...

1. neosd has kept his side of the bargain atm by answering all relevant questions and concerns about the project... (I also appreciate that it is a 2 way street concerning neosd... he needs us... and we would like the item...)
2. The neosd was sent FREE to Razoola (as requested) who is currently doing a thourough evaluation of the device.. His reports will help determine how members wish to proceed...
3. I CANNOT mod stuff and devices I have not seen... aka. The Darksoft thingy (if it even will become reality...)... hence, I'd appreciate some of you guys not comparing a product that no one has... to the neosd... which atm Razoola has....
4. There is a significant portion of the community here that is interested in this device and for the next few years with upgrades and improvements... there is no reason why this cannot become as useful and valuable as the Unibios...

My conclusion is... it's exciting times for the community.. and as long as I'm around I wish it to be so with as little stress as possible..

Let's be honest here... you tech/nerdy/geeky fooks likes things relatively drama free... and that's what I am here to ensure...

I know very little about tech stuffs... but I know the forum and YOU crazies...

xROTx

neosd
11-02-2016, 03:44 AM
Thanks Rot,

Its important to us, know what users think about our product, cause at the end of the day, that is going to determine if the project is a sucess or not.

We are doing our best to deliver a 100% perfect product, one that fills our quality standards and make users happy. There is nothing worst as a customer than buy something and notice that its not what you thought it would be, this is the main reason for us answering EVERY question here.

We have sent NEOSD to Razoola, cause we are 100% sure about the quality of our project.

We hope this will be a sucess and that will allow us to deliver more wonderful products on the next years.

Just want to tell everyone, we are here to stay, we have founded this company to deliver more prodcuts.

Thanks


Here's my view on this whole affair and thread...

This announcement came out of the blue... and Raz and others asked me to oversee this thread...

After the LAST shitfest... I really didn't want too... but you can't always get what you want around here....

As I SEE it... this thread has been pretty much drama free and I'd appreciate it if everyone kept it this way...

1. neosd has kept his side of the bargain atm by answering all relevant questions and concerns about the project... (I also appreciate that it is a 2 way street concerning neosd... he needs us... and we would like the item...)
2. The neosd was sent FREE to Razoola (as requested) who is currently doing a thourough evaluation of the device.. His reports will help determine how members wish to proceed...
3. I CANNOT mod stuff and devices I have not seen... aka. The Darksoft thingy (if it even will become reality...)... hence, I'd appreciate some of you guys not comparing a product that no one has... to the neosd... which atm Razoola has....
4. There is a significant portion of the community here that is interested in this device and for the next few years with upgrades and improvements... there is no reason why this cannot become as useful and valuable as the Unibios...

My conclusion is... it's exciting times for the community.. and as long as I'm around I wish it to be so with as little stress as possible..

Let's be honest here... you tech/nerdy/geeky fooks likes things relatively drama free... and that's what I am here to ensure...

I know very little about tech stuffs... but I know the forum and YOU crazies...

xROTx

Razoola
11-02-2016, 04:02 AM
I have had a chance to test a small cross section of games now of different sizes. This gives a more true picture of loading times across all game sizes on the NeoSD I have here.



Game Abbreviation UniBios CRC32 SOUND Flash Time
----------------- ------------- ----- ----------
AERO FIGHTERS 2 PASS GOOD 0:49
ART OF FIGHTING PASS GOOD 0:46
BLUES JOURNEY PASS GOOD 0:31
BLAZING STAR PASS GOOD 2:02
BURNING FIGHT PASS GOOD 0:27
CROSSED SWORDS 2 PASS GOOD 0:45
FATAL FURY PASS GOOD 0:28
GHOSTLOP PASS GOOD 0:52
IRONCLAD PASS GOOD 1:38
KOF 94 PASS GOOD 1:46
LAST BLADE PASS GOOD 3:07
LAST RESORT PASS GOOD 0:24
MAGICIAN LORD PASS GOOD 0:25
METAL SLUG PASS GOOD 1:42
NAM-1975 PASS GOOD 0:26
NEO TURF MASTERS PASS GOOD 1:13
PULSTAR PASS GOOD 2:01
REAL BOUT FF PASS GOOD 2:19
SAMURAI SHODOWN PASS GOOD 1:07
SHOCK TROOPERS PASS GOOD 2:13
STRIKERS 1945 PLUS PASS GOOD 3:34
VIEW POINT PASS GOOD 0:38
WORLD HEROES PASS GOOD 0:40
WIND JAMMERS PASS GOOD 0:35


I want to add a little more on loading times as I see misunderstandings going forward on this point.

The times above is the total time taken to erase and flash the NeoSD to the game mentioned which I measured. It is a one time erase/flash period. Once a game is flashed there is a 0 (zero) second load time every time the system is powered on or reset with a NeoSD present. This is identical to how an original NeoGeo game cartridge operates.

lherre
11-02-2016, 04:17 AM
I have had a chance to test a small cross section of games now of different sizes. This gives a more true picture of loading times across all game sizes on the NeoSD I have here.



Game Abbreviation UniBios CRC32 SOUND Flash Time
----------------- ------------- ----- ----------
AERO FIGHTERS 2 PASS GOOD 0:49
ART OF FIGHTING PASS GOOD 0:46
BLUES JOURNEY PASS GOOD 0:31
BLAZING STAR PASS GOOD 2:02
BURNING FIGHT PASS GOOD 0:27
CROSSED SWORDS 2 PASS GOOD 0:45
FATAL FURY PASS GOOD 0:28
GHOSTLOP PASS GOOD 0:52
IRONCLAD PASS GOOD 1:38
KOF 94 PASS GOOD 1:46
LAST BLADE PASS GOOD 3:07
LAST RESORT PASS GOOD 0:24
MAGICIAN LORD PASS GOOD 0:25
METAL SLUG PASS GOOD 1:42
NAM-1975 PASS GOOD 0:26
NEO TURF MASTERS PASS GOOD 1:13
PULSTAR PASS GOOD 2:01
REAL BOUT FF PASS GOOD 2:19
SAMURAI SHODOWN PASS GOOD 1:07
SHOCK TROOPERS PASS GOOD 2:13
STRIKERS 1945 PLUS PASS GOOD 3:34
VIEW POINT PASS GOOD 0:38
WORLD HEROES PASS GOOD 0:40
WIND JAMMERS PASS GOOD 0:35


I want to add a little more on loading times as I see misunderstandings going forward on this point.

The times above is the total time taken to erase and flash the NeoSD to the game mentioned which I measured. It is a one time erase/flash period. Once a game is flashed there is a 0 (zero) second load time every time the system is powered on or reset with a NeoSD present. This is identical to how an original NeoGeo game cartridge operates.

The last thing is something that is usually forgotten. Once is flashed it operates like an original game with 0 loading times.

Thanks for the loading times provided.

aoiddr
11-02-2016, 04:39 AM
I can't seem to be able to get an order to go through. I keep getting "transaction denied" when checking out with my credit card.

neosd
11-02-2016, 04:41 AM
I can't seem to be able to get an order to go through. I keep getting "transaction denied" when checking out with my credit card.
Hello,

Usa credit card ? Allow me to send you a private message please.

Thanks

aoiddr
11-02-2016, 04:42 AM
Hello,

Usa credit card ? Allow me to send you a private message please.

Thanks


Yes, it's a U.S. card. (PM received.)

neosd
11-02-2016, 04:45 AM
Yes, it's a U.S. card.

Thanks,

I have sent you a private message, our bank had a lot of rules to block credit card payments through theyr paymen system, for some reason they fear USA credit cards payments. We still dont really know why but there are rules for :
a) USA
b) Rest of the world

We thought all those were solved after a week fighting with the bank, lets see whats still remaining, to call them back ...

Thanks

GadgetUK
11-02-2016, 04:45 AM
Those times are fine! When I want to play a specific game on the MVS I tend to want a cup of tea while I am playing, so load the game, go get your drink, come back and loaded =D All these youngsters expecting instant loading times!!!, they know nothing - go spend some time with a ZX Spectrum or Commodore 64, that will feel like a long loading time =D Have you tried the backup RAM save feature yet Raz, or does your board need an update first?

tcdev
11-02-2016, 05:17 AM
For me, personally, the ability to play any title - and perhaps most importantly, homebrew titles - on real hardware far outweighs the inconvenience of a few minutes flash time. If I want to 'twitch game' I likely won't be playing Neo Geo games on real hardware, I'll probably be firing up an emulator on a PC or portable device. Real Neo Geo hardware is for serious gaming sessions that will probably involve an hour or more of gameplay on a particular title. It's going to take time for me to drag out the console and set it all up anyway so a few (more) minutes loading time is neither here nor there in the scheme of things under these circumstances.

And as GadgetUK mentioned - I cut my video gaming teeth loading games from cassette on a TRS-80 Model I... load error, adjust volume, try again... so these young whipper-snappers don't know how good they've got it!

Of course there'll be the inevitable gripes from the unappreciative; would be nice if they could simply say, "cool device, but not for me" and move on. But everyone here has been around the scene long enough to know that's not going to happen in most cases. ;)

Unfortunately for me, although I own a handful of MVS boards and a couple of cabinets, I'm holding out for an AES version (unless I read too many posts from gloating customers and I can't restrain myself). I have little doubt AES is next on the cards (it's a natural follow-on), but I'm not hoping to prod neosd into a confession just yet. But if they're too slow off the mark, someone might beat them to it! :P

neosd
11-02-2016, 05:20 AM
RomE wanst built in a day, even some think they can build something better than RomE in a day ;)

Not saying that others canīt show something out of the blue as we did ...

Thanks !!



Unfortunately for me, although I own a handful of MVS boards and a couple of cabinets, I'm holding out for an AES version (unless I read too many posts from gloating customers and I can't restrain myself). I have little doubt AES is next on the cards (it's a natural follow-on), but I'm not hoping to prod neosd into a confession just yet. But if they're too slow off the mark, someone might beat them to it! :P

Montatez
11-02-2016, 06:04 AM
Roma

:keke:

Viewpoint
11-02-2016, 06:35 AM
Thanks for the info Raz! Darksoft said on the arcade-projects forums that the longest load time on his Multigame Cart is 12 seconds(currently). Looks like there will be some healthy competition in this space and that's good for all of us. :buttrock:

I'm calling bullshit. lol

Rot
11-02-2016, 06:44 AM
I'm calling bullshit. lol

Yah... this is what I mean Bonus man...

Why bother speculating on shit that isn't even real atm... and let's just focus what we have in front of us...

I appreciate that people are still mad at me for the last time... but hey... I was fair then... and I'm fair now...

xROTx

cmoliveira
11-02-2016, 07:32 AM
Yah... this is what I mean Bonus man...

Why bother speculating on shit that isn't even real atm... and let's just focus what we have in front of us...

I appreciate that people are still mad at me for the last time... but hey... I was fair then... and I'm fair now...

xROTx

True enough. Didn't mean to stir the pot with that comment guys. I've been following both projects and was just adding info to the conversation. Rot makes a good point though. Let's keep focus on what exists and analyze that. Good times are ahead!

lions3
11-02-2016, 09:35 AM
well I was trying not to be excited but Raz says NAM in 20 something seconds. Windjammers 30 something? Pulstar in 2 minutes. Okay, guess I know what i'll be saving for after the holidays.

Random question. NEOSD, do you plan to use any resellers once you catch up with demand? I would be surprised if the Neo store didn't want to sell them. Along with others like Stone Age Gamer, JNX, etc

NeoTurfMasta
11-02-2016, 10:35 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but how about a NeoCD type loading screen? Like have the animated Monkey, or a random slide show. I know it's not a functionality thing, but it might be a nice addition.

Rot
11-02-2016, 10:37 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but how about a NeoCD type loading screen? Like have the animated Monkey, or a random slide show. I know it's not a functionality thing, but it might be a nice addition.

Everytime I see that juggling Monkey... I get teh ragorz...

... Lulz... now those NGCD load times took the piss...

xROTx

neo-geo 2
11-02-2016, 11:11 AM
sorry if this has been asked,but


Will I be able to do 4 player league bowling with 2 of these?

Kid Panda
11-02-2016, 11:13 AM
sorry if this has been asked,but





Will I be able to do 4 player league bowling with 2 of these?



No, this was answered like 2 pages back. There's no link pcb.

neosd
11-02-2016, 11:26 AM
Random question. NEOSD, do you plan to use any resellers once you catch up with demand? I would be surprised if the Neo store didn't want to sell them. Along with others like Stone Age Gamer, JNX, etc

Hello,

We still have not thought about that.

We will study that, case by case.

Thanks

fenikso
11-02-2016, 11:34 AM
Thanks,

I have sent you a private message, our bank had a lot of rules to block credit card payments through theyr paymen system, for some reason they fear USA credit cards payments. We still dont really know why but there are rules for :
a) USA
b) Rest of the world

We thought all those were solved after a week fighting with the bank, lets see whats still remaining, to call them back ...

Thanks

My Credit Card is coming up as 'Transaction denied by your bank', but my bank (actually a Credit Union) has it as clear sailing on their end. Very annoying.

neosd
11-02-2016, 11:40 AM
My Credit Card is coming up as 'Transaction denied by your bank', but my bank (actually a Credit Union) has it as clear sailing on their end. Very annoying.

Really SORRY to read that again, can you ask your bank why they have denied the transaction ? We really need more info to put pressure on our bank.
All we can say right now is that some customers from usa can buy, others cant.

We would really apreciate any info you can provide us.

Thanks !

greedostick
11-02-2016, 11:55 AM
I can't seem to be able to get an order to go through. I keep getting "transaction denied" when checking out with my credit card.

I had the same issue a few weeks ago.just keep working with neosd and it will eventually work.

neosd
11-02-2016, 11:59 AM
I had the same issue a few weeks ago.just keep working with neosd and it will eventually work.

Hello

Its pretty weird, some transactions from USA are acepted, others donīt. We dont really know why.
When asking BBVA (our bank, the provider of the payment system), they just say : this operation has been rejected by the bank that issues the credit card without more info, customer has to ask his bank to get more details.

If you guys could ask your bank and give us the details, this would be great, so we can finally get the issue shorted.

Really sorry for the inconveniences, dealing with banks isnt something easy ...

Thanks

aoiddr
11-02-2016, 12:08 PM
Re: My Transaction Declined error that I had earlier--
It turns out that my card provider declined the large foreign payment when I first tried to make it, and put a hold on my card thinking it was suspicious activity. I had to call into my card company (a bank, in my case) to verify I was trying to make the large purchase and to get them to take the hold off the card. Once they did that, I was able to go through the checkout process again and it went through just fine.

Thanks to neosd for the help figuring out the issue.

neosd
11-02-2016, 12:09 PM
Our pleasure, thanks for the purchase !!


Re: My Transaction Declined error that I had earlier--
It turns out that my card provider declined the large foreign payment when I first tried to make it, and put a hold on my card thinking it was suspicious activity. I had to call into my card company (a bank, in my case) to verify I was trying to make the large purchase and to get them to take the hold off the card. Once they did that, I was able to go through the checkout process again and it went through just fine.

Thanks to neosd for the help figuring out the issue.

fenikso
11-02-2016, 12:21 PM
Really SORRY to read that again, can you ask your bank why they have denied the transaction ? We really need more info to put pressure on our bank.
All we can say right now is that some customers from usa can buy, others cant.

We would really apreciate any info you can provide us.

Thanks !

Talked with the service center again, and they had to call my credit union. Turns out Spain was on their blocked counties list and they had to be told to let it through. I've been able to successfully pre-order now. I imagine that that is the reason for a large part of the rejections in this country.

LegoSlug
11-02-2016, 12:22 PM
Glad to see this is legit. Loading times are much better than I expected, several games are under 1 minute. Looking to place an order in the near future!

neosd
11-02-2016, 12:24 PM
Talked with the service center again, and they had to call my credit union. Turns out Spain was on their blocked counties list and they had to be told to let it through. I've been able to successfully pre-order now. I imagine that that is the reason for a large part of the rejections in this country.

Big thanks for that call.

Thats pretty fun cause its a bi-directional relationship, our bank has rules for USA and Canada, and for the rest of the world.
Thats even more fun cause we have a lot of preorders from usa, so for some reason, some USA banks decline the transaction and others donīt

We have choosen a big bank aswell, if i dont remember bad BBVA was NBA sponsor and they have a lot of offices in USA ...

Thanks again !

fenikso
11-02-2016, 12:30 PM
Big thanks for that call.

Thats pretty fun cause its a bi-directional relationship, our bank has rules for USA and Canada, and for the rest of the world.
Thats even more fun cause we have a lot of preorders from usa, so for some reason, some USA banks decline the transaction and others donīt

We have choosen a big bank aswell, if i dont remember bad BBVA was NBA sponsor and they have a lot of offices in USA ...

Thanks again !
Yeah, I figured it was going to be something along those lines, but I didn't realize that the 'card services' number wasn't directly related to my CU, but instead farmed out. So it was one more hoop to jump through that I didn't even know existed.

Like was said before: On your next run you should really consider finding an American company to do distribution for the USA and Canada.

PS - I think that this was my single biggest Credit Card purchase ever, congrats :lolz:

Grendell
11-02-2016, 01:25 PM
Hi

@ neosd , i placed my order about 30 minutes ago and it seems it went trough ( MasterCard + securecode from my bank ) but I didn't get any confirmation via mail that i placed a order and my acc on your shop show no order history ,

Do you guys manage your online shop from hand or should I get a confirmation automatically ?

Greetings Chris

neosd
11-02-2016, 01:42 PM
Hi

@ neosd , i placed my order about 30 minutes ago and it seems it went trough ( MasterCard + securecode from my bank ) but I didn't get any confirmation via mail that i placed a order and my acc on your shop show no order history ,

Do you guys manage your online shop from hand or should I get a confirmation automatically ?

Greetings Chris

Hello,

I just checked and your operation got the same error 190, prolly your bank is blocking the transaction, thats weird cause this is the first problem we see with a Germany credit card.
Can you ask your bank if they are blocking the transaction ?

Also, once you sucefully make the purchase, you get redirected to the webshop, you can also check the status of your order login into the webshop

Thanks

Grendell
11-02-2016, 02:10 PM
hi again ,

so the problem is solved , my bank blocked the paymet ......... there are some possibility , maybe just some problem on my bank side or that -> it is possible because a few days ago i bougt someting on itunes payment goes outside the country , than i bought a few other think also payment went outside the country but not the same , i gues it was 3 different places ......... and so my bank blocked the payment to the shop , the problem is i got no messages from my bank if i had not called them i wouldnt know

so for others if you dont get instant a repley from the shop call yout bank , not just if you located within the us the same can happen here in europe too

aku
11-02-2016, 02:17 PM
normally you should get three e-mails: 1. account confirmation ("welcome!") 2. payment confirmation and 3. order confirmation

GohanX
11-02-2016, 02:24 PM
I've had the credit card issue sometimes when ordering from Japanese sellers. Had to call up the bank and say "yes, I was buying random Japanese items at 2 am on a Saturday, please process payment." Usually once you make that call once that card is good for foreign transactions.

Grendell
11-02-2016, 02:36 PM
my bank told me or so it sounds to me , my last payments in a short amount of time went to 3 different country it could had be stolen so they refused the payment because thats not my usual behavior

neosd
11-02-2016, 02:43 PM
Hello guys,

I think it deppends on the bank at all. Here in Spain credit card secure payment forces us to get a code over SMS, so you have to enter it to proceed with the purchase, not just at neosdstore.com, at any online place that uses virtual payment system, this applies for cinema tickets for example ...
Dunno how it works in other countries, i lived in usa for some months and i was able to pay with my Spanish credit card at some places without type the secred code ...

Anyways, glad we know the issue is not at our side anymore.

Thanks !