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Jibbajaba
03-22-2016, 03:05 PM
I am trying to capture VGA footage from my DOS PC for use on my YT channel. I bought a "Kenzei" box from Behar Bros, which takes VGA in, combines the sync, and sends normal scart RGB (or component or composite) out. It was originally designed for use with a Dreamcast VGA box. I can use it with a Dreamcast just fine, passing the signal to my Framemeister. But when I hook my DOS PC up to the same box, I get nothing. I thought it wouldn't make a difference, because both VGA signals should be 31khz 640x480. The Framemeister does not acknowledge an input when I hook up the PC. I tried bypassing the Framemeister and hooking the Kenzei straight to my TV using the component outputs, and I still get nothing, which would obviously suggest that the Kenzei doesn't like the signal coming from my computer, but again I don't understand how it is any different than the signal coming out of a DC VGA box. Help?

I know about the XPC-4, but it does not output HDMI. The only other thing I can think to try (other than just using the s-video out on my DOS PC's video card) is to just buy one of those VGA -> HDMI converters, but they all seem like cheap chinese shit.

Xian Xi
03-22-2016, 03:34 PM
You made sure your screen resolution was 640 X 480 on the PC?

I use a HDMI standalone capture device that saves in 2gb chunks to a USB flash drive. I used it with a VGA to HDMI converter and it worked great. You should try it out if this setup isn't working for you. I have a sample video or two on my YouTube channel of the capture quality. The VGA to HDMI converter was a small white one and was only $15. It only converts the signal to HDMI, not upscale. So 640 X 480 would just convert to 480p HDMI.

Jibbajaba
03-22-2016, 03:40 PM
You made sure your screen resolution was 640 X 480 on the PC?

I use a HDMI standalone capture device that saves in 2gb chunks to a USB flash drive. I used it with a VGA to HDMI converter and it worked great. You should try it out if this setup isn't working for you. I have a sample video or two on my YouTube channel of the capture quality. The VGA to HDMI converter was a small white one and was only $15. It only converts the signal to HDMI, not upscale. So 640 X 480 would just convert to 480p HDMI.

Well, it's just DOS. How would I check the resolution? If I can get the VGA into 480p HDMI, then my Elgato should be able to record it just fine. I am looking at your YT channel right now, but am not sure which videos you are referring to. Thanks for the response!!

Kid Panda
03-22-2016, 03:47 PM
What kind of video card do you have? Are we talking like a real pure dos machine? My old speedstar64 ISA video card couldn't display at 640x480, so everything that came out was 320 x 240/220/etc. if your vid card is newer then there shouldn't be any issue with it pushing a 480 display out.

aha2940
03-22-2016, 03:51 PM
Well, it's just DOS. How would I check the resolution? If I can get the VGA into 480p HDMI, then my Elgato should be able to record it just fine. I am looking at your YT channel right now, but am not sure which videos you are referring to. Thanks for the response!!

If it's just DOS and you have not installed any video card drivers, then DOS is using the default resolution of your video card, which may (or may not) be standard VGA (640 x 480). Which card are you using? can you plug a standard monitor and check in its menu the real resolution?

Regards.

Kid Panda
03-22-2016, 03:56 PM
640x480 is not standard VGA. It's SVGA. Standard VGA is actually 320x/200/240.

GohanX
03-22-2016, 03:59 PM
The Kenzei doesn't output Component, btw. The RCA jacks are just another RGBS output. All the Kenzei does is combine the sync signals, it doesn't do any transcoding.

If you are using the Kenzei by itself, make sure you are using an external power adapter and the power switch is set appropriately. I'm not sure if a PC video card outputs a power signal through the VGA output, and if it does it may not be enough.

aha2940
03-22-2016, 04:09 PM
640x480 is not standard VGA. It's SVGA. Standard VGA is actually 320x/200/240.

True, I missed the S.

Jibbajaba
03-22-2016, 04:49 PM
The card is an ATI Rage 3D II. PCI. I bought it because it has s-video out, but would prefer to record RGB if possible. Although as DNSDies pointed out, some games run at lower resolutions, so maybe s-video is the best I can hope for without having more headaches.

Yes, it is a real pure DOS machine. P90 I think, running DOS 6.22.

I am using an external power brick for the Kenzei. As I said, it works fine with a Dreamcast, so there is something about the signal coming from my PC that it doesn't care for. Didn't know that the RCA jacks are still RGB and not component, so that makes sense. So is the yellow jack next to them just the sync line, then?

Plugging it into a monitor and checking the resolution is a great idea.

GohanX
03-22-2016, 06:08 PM
Yes, yellow is sync. Makes it easy to use with pvms.

aha2940
03-22-2016, 09:19 PM
Not sure if it will help you Jibba, but it might be worth a try? http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=15190

Regards.

Jibbajaba
03-22-2016, 11:49 PM
Not sure if it will help you Jibba, but it might be worth a try? http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=15190

Regards.

Thanks dude, I'll check that out.

greedostick
03-22-2016, 11:59 PM
Thanks dude, I'll check that out.

I would definitely ask around at Vogons. It's the Neo Geo forums of classic PC gaming.

And read this. Near the bottom.

http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?228887-**RESOLVED**-Change-screen-resolution-IN-DOS

mikejmoffitt
03-23-2016, 12:14 AM
640x480 is not standard VGA. It's SVGA. Standard VGA is actually 320x/200/240.

No, that's not quite right. 640x480 is the original VGA, 800x600 is SVGA, 1024x768 is XGA, etc.

Jibbajaba
03-23-2016, 12:34 AM
I tried hooking the s-video out on my video card directly to the Elgato. Still doesn't really work because every time the resolution switches, the signal cuts out. This is going to be a real bitch to figure out.

In case anyone is curious, I am trying to capture a bunch of old Gravis Ultrasound demos. Example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTjnt_WSJu8

The dude that made this video used some kind of crazy $1,000 capture card, tho.

Edit: Thanks Greedo, but that's for Windows.

DecepticonZero
03-23-2016, 10:59 AM
Might wanna hit up LGR on YouTube. He does alot of DOS videos and may have a solution for you.

Jibbajaba
03-23-2016, 03:44 PM
Jibba,

You might try reading this thread:
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33392&start=0

Using VLC or Media Player Classic to view the video stream from a capture device might make it work, although at some delay. It's worth trying, and doesn't cost anything except your time.

Yeah, I've been poking around on the Vogons site. They actually have a whole mega-thread dedicated to VGA capture, and the takeaway message I got was that it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. I already sunk about $400 into a framemeister and an Elgato for capturing console stuff, and it looks like I would have to buy more stuff to capture DOS VGA, and it may or may not work that well. That Avermedia card looks neat, but I would have to build a PC in order to use it, which of course drives the cost WAY up. The s-video solution might not give me the highest-quality video, but it won't care about things like on-the-fly resolution changes.

Edit: If it were just DOS game footage, I wouldn't really mind using DOSBox. But I've tried running these GUS demos in DOSBox and they're glitchy.


Might wanna hit up LGR on YouTube. He does alot of DOS videos and may have a solution for you.

Yeah, I reached out to him but haven't heard back. People on Vogons seem to think that he's using DOSBox, though.

DecepticonZero
03-23-2016, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I reached out to him but haven't heard back. People on Vogons seem to think that he's using DOSBox, though.

That would be a bit disappointing. I was always under the assumption that he was running real hardware.

Kid Panda
03-23-2016, 05:07 PM
That would be a bit disappointing. I was always under the assumption that he was running real hardware.

I think I remember him doing a Q/A episode saying that he uses dosbox for it's ease of capture. I think when he streams old dos games he's even using Dosbox too.

Jibbajaba
03-23-2016, 05:59 PM
I just don't like using emulation on my channel because I don't think you can legitimately talk about a game from a technical perspective when you're emulating it. Shitty framerate, glitchy graphics, glitchy sound, etc. Is it the game, or just the emulation?

DecepticonZero
03-23-2016, 06:35 PM
I just don't like using emulation on my channel because I don't think you can legitimately talk about a game from a technical perspective when you're emulating it. Shitty framerate, glitchy graphics, glitchy sound, etc. Is it the game, or just the emulation?

This too a T is my feelings. I love emulation, but when your doing a show on it use the real hardware.

Newsdee
03-24-2016, 10:03 PM
What do you get if you select the "full status" option in the XRGB? That should give you a clue of what is wrong with the signal.

I use an UMSA from ArcadeForge to convert a 480p VGA signal from a MiST FPGA into an X-RGB, and it works fine except if I try using some of the Atari ST or Amiga monochrome resolutions which have different timings.

shadowkn55
03-24-2016, 11:51 PM
XPC4 -> Frameister -> Elgato?

DecepticonZero
03-25-2016, 11:03 AM
Another Idea after reading some threads on VOGONS.

buy a PCI GeForce FX 5200 with a DVI port on it.
It's compatible all the way down to Windows 95, and you can use a DVI to HDMI passive adapter.

Best of all, they're $15-20 on ebay.

That's a fantastic idea.

shadowkn55
03-25-2016, 11:12 AM
It's compatible all the way down to Windows 95, and you can use a DVI to HDMI passive adapter.



Yes, it is a real pure DOS machine. P90 I think, running DOS 6.22.


Hmm...

Jibbajaba
03-25-2016, 11:24 AM
That is a great idea, but I don't have Windows 95 on this computer. Kinda don't really want it either, because that would cause a few problems.

Next time I go over to Teddy's house, I'm going to take my DOS machine and Elgato and try out his XPC-4.

shadowkn55
03-25-2016, 12:31 PM
It will still work in DOS, pretty sure. Windows 9x compatibility usually means it works in DOS.

No it doesn't.


Video cards don't even use drivers in DOS either.

Drivers aren't necessary for the basic text only, low color portion of the initial boot up. But if you want to take advantage of the cards extended capabilities like 3D graphics, compatible drivers are most definitely required.

Haven't you ever installed a new graphics card without installing the drivers? In Windows you get the lowest resolution possible (640x480 or 800x600) and at best 16-bit color. It's not until you install the drivers do you get higher resolutions and true color.

Jibbajaba
03-25-2016, 02:52 PM
If that card works in DOS then it would be a cool option to explore. My only concern would still be with the Elgato not being able to keep up with the resolution changes. I tried hooking my computer directly to the Elgato using s-video and even then the signal would cut out for several seconds every time the resolution changed. That's why something like the XPC-4 is interesting. If it can keep up with resolution changes and output at a steady 720p, then that would work. But I am skeptical that it would be able to do so. Right now my best bet is to use my DVD recorder with the s-video output of my current video card. The picture isn't as sharp, but resolution changes are not a problem. Still, for $15 shipped that video card would be worth the risk if I were sure that it would work without Windows 95. I could always try passing the HDMI signal through the Framemeister to see if that helps, although it doesn't usually like sudden changes in resolution, either.

Xian Xi
03-25-2016, 04:34 PM
Just do what I did with my early arcade footage. Svideo to a DVD recorder then import the file on the computer make whatever changes you need to the video before you upload. That's exactly how I did mine.

Jibbajaba
03-25-2016, 05:06 PM
Just do what I did with my early arcade footage. Svideo to a DVD recorder then import the file on the computer make whatever changes you need to the video before you upload. That's exactly how I did mine.

That is precisely what I did with all the footage on my channel prior to getting the Framemeister and Elgato. Sounds like that's what I'm going to be doing with DOS PC footage, and that's totally fine with me.

Jibbajaba
03-25-2016, 08:03 PM
Edit: Gonna re-upload the video after doing some tweaking.

Jibbajaba
03-25-2016, 11:30 PM
<Deleted>

chinitosoccer
03-30-2016, 09:56 AM
OP, if your kenzei supports component input you should try one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400751305462?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

it converts VGA into component video which is a more "up to today standards" video signal, VGA or RGB just don't cut it anymore, almost 100% of current devices hanlde video in component format, RGB isn't bandwith effective.

Jibbajaba
03-30-2016, 12:05 PM
OP, if your kenzei supports component input you should try one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400751305462?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

it converts VGA into component video which is a more "up to today standards" video signal, VGA or RGB just don't cut it anymore, almost 100% of current devices hanlde video in component format, RGB isn't bandwith effective.

If that worked then I wouldn't need the Kenzei anymore. The issue is whether or not it can handle the low resolutions of most DOS games, and how it would handle resolution changes. It also mentions not being an upscaler, so I don't know how my Framemeister would handle that. I'm going to back-burner DOS capture for now because I have too many other things going on.